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(Huffington Post)   Zach Braff's Kickstarter goal was $2 million. Only a fraction of the $5 to $6 million budget, an "ass-ton" of which will come from his own pocket   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 69
    More: Spiffy, Zach Braff, Morgan Freeman, humans, Josh Hartnett, American Medical Association, Gavin Rossdale, Rob Thomas, Diane Kruger  
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4984 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 09 May 2013 at 11:16 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-09 04:52:24 PM

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: EyeballKid: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Those chuckleheads were never told they were going to get paid for playing with Amanda Palmer. Then when they didn't get paid some of them got biatchy about it, and now people are saying Amanda Palmer has a sense of entitlement?

Yes, don't hate the sleazy manipulator, hate the suckers who fell for it. Sorry, you don't have a hopeless infatuation with Amanda Palmer, you just have a horribly farked up sense of values. My apologies.

Which of Ayn Rand's works is your favorite?

Yes, what a horrible manipulator she was.  She said, "Hey, anyone want to play on stage with me for free?", people said "Sure!", then freaked when she didn't hand them cash at the end of the night.  They knew exactly what they were (well, weren't) getting, then pitched a fit when they didn't get it.  If she had promised payment, suggested or hinted that there would be payment, I could understand saying she was manipulating them, but she didn't.  It was pretty farking clear from the outset that they weren't going to get paid.  They were self-entitled biatches who decided they deserved something they weren't offered, which is a whole fark of a lot more like Ayn Rand than you seem to think I am.


As a musician it's a shiatty thing to do to another musician.

Anyone who has earned their stripes should know this.  Anyone who has had to put up with the nearly endless BS that comes from being a gigging musician knows it.

"Merch beer and hugs" doesn't pay the bills, cover gas money or advance a career.
 
2013-05-09 05:47:40 PM

Skarekrough: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: EyeballKid: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Those chuckleheads were never told they were going to get paid for playing with Amanda Palmer. Then when they didn't get paid some of them got biatchy about it, and now people are saying Amanda Palmer has a sense of entitlement?

Yes, don't hate the sleazy manipulator, hate the suckers who fell for it. Sorry, you don't have a hopeless infatuation with Amanda Palmer, you just have a horribly farked up sense of values. My apologies.

Which of Ayn Rand's works is your favorite?

Yes, what a horrible manipulator she was.  She said, "Hey, anyone want to play on stage with me for free?", people said "Sure!", then freaked when she didn't hand them cash at the end of the night.  They knew exactly what they were (well, weren't) getting, then pitched a fit when they didn't get it.  If she had promised payment, suggested or hinted that there would be payment, I could understand saying she was manipulating them, but she didn't.  It was pretty farking clear from the outset that they weren't going to get paid.  They were self-entitled biatches who decided they deserved something they weren't offered, which is a whole fark of a lot more like Ayn Rand than you seem to think I am.

As a musician it's a shiatty thing to do to another musician.

Anyone who has earned their stripes should know this.  Anyone who has had to put up with the nearly endless BS that comes from being a gigging musician knows it.

"Merch beer and hugs" doesn't pay the bills, cover gas money or advance a career.


Oh sorry, I was unaware that Ms. Palmer kidnapped each and every one of those musicians, held a gun to their heads, and threatened to kill them if they didn't perform.

It's very simple: They knew the score before going in.  To then turn around and act like they were owed more than what they already agreed to makes them greedy assholes.  They could have always just said "no" to begin with, so they have absolutely zero place to complain when they got exactly what they were offered and agreed to.  The overdeveloped sense of entitlement I've seen arise from that whole situation is just farking retarded.

"I agreed to do something for no pay and then I didn't get paid! WAAAAA!!"
 
2013-05-09 05:53:41 PM
Wasn't there some rich woman who was running a kickstarter for her daughter so that she could learn how to make video games?
 
2013-05-09 05:57:52 PM
Palmer sometimes says and does things online that make it hard to defend her, but I have to say that I would have been thrilled to play in that band. I would also be happy to play left field for The Twins or moderate a presidential debate for free. I liked the idea of saving the opportunity for fans. We don't have to agree on this, but it seems like this view is underrepresented in Kickstarter threads. I'm arguing on the internet. What could go wrong?
 
2013-05-09 06:15:41 PM

Arthen: Either give me a cut of your profits or stfu.


Not currently legal.  He's addressed this in one of the many interviews he's done on the subject.  He would like to, but Federal law currently makes this illegal.  Was supposed to get resolved recently, but wasn't (forgetting why).
 
2013-05-09 06:15:44 PM
Imokaywiththis.jpg

It's not like it's taxes and you have to pay.
 
2013-05-09 06:50:39 PM
Isn't that whole thing a catch 22?

Some guy asks for 2 or 4 mil $ on kickstarter to make a movie, either:

- no one knows him or what he's capable of, chances are he's an amateur, no way you're going to spend money on something so risky/random
- you know him and perhaps liked something he did. Chances are, then, that he's famous and thus has already got money. Why give to him?

It's really amusing considering the number of game studios no one has ever heard of ever which managed to raise millions for special magic adventure games that will supposedly look better than anything done before as well as give the players free b-jobs as achievements. It never raised such a ruckus.

More seriously, one should just check the article linked on fark about the Dungeons and Dragons movie to see where the "studio money" really goes and the kind of winning team studio execs hire nowadays. If you think Braff's project really stands any kind of chance with a studio, you're 12. Only people like Mallick can pull this off after a looooong career and enough awards.
 
2013-05-09 06:52:20 PM

Herbie555: Not currently legal.


It's perfectly legal, it just requires that you follow the rules we set up for investments. Which he doesn't want to do.

That's an unreasonable choice on his part -- there's lots of overhead involved -- but it's inaccurate to claim it would be "illegal" to accept investments in and share profits from a business enterprise.
 
2013-05-09 06:59:11 PM

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Amanda Palmer has a sense of entitlement


She does, as evidenced by asking people to perform work that she considers valuable at no cost. That's not to say she's tricking anyone, but it's still self-entitled behavior.
 
2013-05-09 08:01:52 PM

profplump: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Amanda Palmer has a sense of entitlement

She does, as evidenced by asking people to perform work that she considers valuable at no cost. That's not to say she's tricking anyone, but it's still self-entitled behavior.


OK, so who has the greater sense of entitlement, the person asking for others to work for free, or the people who agree to work for free then demand payment after the work is done?
 
2013-05-09 08:19:50 PM

Skarekrough: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: EyeballKid: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Those chuckleheads were never told they were going to get paid for playing with Amanda Palmer. Then when they didn't get paid some of them got biatchy about it, and now people are saying Amanda Palmer has a sense of entitlement?

Yes, don't hate the sleazy manipulator, hate the suckers who fell for it. Sorry, you don't have a hopeless infatuation with Amanda Palmer, you just have a horribly farked up sense of values. My apologies.

Which of Ayn Rand's works is your favorite?

Yes, what a horrible manipulator she was.  She said, "Hey, anyone want to play on stage with me for free?", people said "Sure!", then freaked when she didn't hand them cash at the end of the night.  They knew exactly what they were (well, weren't) getting, then pitched a fit when they didn't get it.  If she had promised payment, suggested or hinted that there would be payment, I could understand saying she was manipulating them, but she didn't.  It was pretty farking clear from the outset that they weren't going to get paid.  They were self-entitled biatches who decided they deserved something they weren't offered, which is a whole fark of a lot more like Ayn Rand than you seem to think I am.

As a musician it's a shiatty thing to do to another musician.

Anyone who has earned their stripes should know this.  Anyone who has had to put up with the nearly endless BS that comes from being a gigging musician knows it.

"Merch beer and hugs" doesn't pay the bills, cover gas money or advance a career.


Anyone who does work that does not pay a straight guaranteed salary can sympathize with this point of view. And as easy as it is to blame her, you should really be mad at the musicians who agreed to be exploited (yes, exploited) like this.

Number 1 rule for anyone who wants a serious career in a creative field: DON'T WORK FOR FREE! I don't care if you love the artist, if you think this would be a great experience, or if you just really want to hug Amanda Palmer. If your work is good enough to get someone else paid you get yourself paid.

And you don't necessarily do it for yourself but for the other aspiring professionals trying to eke out some semblance of a living using what is usually their only marketable skill. When you undervalue yourself--especially on such a high level--you undervalue everybody else. You make it that much easier for the next greedy bastard who doesn't want to pay for work to say, "Well I can get these guys for the price of a couple of beers." It's why so many novices are afraid to or don't know how to ask for compensation, no matter how much time they sacrificed for the work.

Still, those musicians signed up for that. They only have themselves to blame if they have a hard time finding paying work in the future.
 
2013-05-10 12:30:34 AM

unlikely: space1999: Please remember that everyone who pledges gets something in return.

Yeah, also not this.

Everyone who pledges gets PROMISED something in return. In my experience, it's about 50/50 whether you actually get anything.


Uh.. wow, seriously? I've backed about three dozen projects and have yet to be stiffed. Some stuff has taken a while, a couple have taken over a year, but I've yet to get zip. Maybe I've just gotten lucky, but if it was really 50% I think Kickstarter would already be dead.
 
2013-05-10 12:35:11 AM
Here's the thing. Garden State cost 2.5 and made 27.  Based on that and his dedicated fans (Scrubs has a particularly loyal following, even in syndication) he could have easily secured between 5-6 in financing.  That is assuming that the script is makeable for that number, he acts as well as directs, and he can get a few B-listers to work cheap.  Those are all logical assumptions.

So why Kickstarter? It's not final cut, that's a crock of shiat. At that budgetary level giving the filmmaker creative control is the norm. As an investor you are making a bet that the artist you are backing is the real deal. Last thing you want to do is to cause the investment to fail.  No, there is an entirely different reason for kickstarter.

Ego.  It's all about Braff vampiring the money and adulation of his fans.  And that is sad both for him and his investors.
 
2013-05-10 12:44:37 AM

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: profplump: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Amanda Palmer has a sense of entitlement

She does, as evidenced by asking people to perform work that she considers valuable at no cost. That's not to say she's tricking anyone, but it's still self-entitled behavior.

OK, so who has the greater sense of entitlement, the person asking for others to work for free, or the people who agree to work for free then demand payment after the work is done?


This is the heart of your argument, however it is flawed and dishonest.  This whole controversy had nothing at all to do with the musicians who had performed with her retroactively seeking payment.  That's a total straw man.

The issue was raised by creatives of all types across the country, people who objected to the exploitation of fans for her benefit.  Lose the straw man and make an argument on it's merits. To do otherwise is sad and pathetic.
 
2013-05-10 01:24:02 AM
Lighten up. This is just a high tech upgrade to something indie filmmakers have done since independent films have existed. Just, instead of holding pitch parties for people they know who may have money, they do the pitch online.

I can't fault Braff for this.

For those of you complaining that he should fund the whole thing himself, look at Francis Coppola.
Sure, he put up his house as collateral to finish Apocalypse Now, but how many times has he nearly gone broke?
Godfather III only exists because he was a gnat's pube away from bankruptcy.
 
2013-05-10 08:00:15 AM
I don't particularly care if he does this, but also do not plan to fund his kickstarter. There are HUNDREDS yea THOUSANDS of kickstarter projects I am also not funding.

Does this make me a bad person?
 
2013-05-10 10:27:05 AM

Wellon Dowd: I'm setting up a KickStarter for a film I'm working on. It will be a sort of thematic prequel to Black Swan, set on a high school pep squad, staring Ariel Winter and Annasophia Robb.


Pledge $1 or more1,934 backers

I put that thought into your head didn't I?  Isn't that at least worth $1?

Estimated delivery: Jun 2013
 
2013-05-10 11:47:12 AM
IMO, it's against the spirit of kickstarter or any other indie-style "investment" site. I thought it was for people that needed the money just to make the thing possible, not increase the profit margin for rich farks.
 I feel bad for any people trying to break into the biz if you're going to have people like this pushing them down.
 
2013-05-10 12:07:43 PM

God-is-a-Taco: IMO, it's against the spirit of kickstarter or any other indie-style "investment" site. I thought it was for people that needed the money just to make the thing possible, not increase the profit margin for rich farks.
 I feel bad for any people trying to break into the biz if you're going to have people like this pushing them down.


Well, unless someone makes "Starstarter", I guess they still have to go this route.

Again, I'm not sure of what the issue is here.   He wanted to see if the fans were willing to "back" the movie.    If you look at the "perks" you get at each level, you are getting a fairly decent "deal" back for your contribution to the production.

There is also his explanation here : "  I was about to sign a typical financing deal in order to get the money to make "Wish I Was Here," my follow up to "Garden State." It would have involved making a lot of sacrifices I think would have ultimately hurt the film. "

Which makes sense... when you get money from a big studio... they are going to have all sorts of stipulations about what can be done, etc.   This way... he can make the movie his way, and people who are fans of his will trust that he'll do a good job.

IMO, I don't see this as "Taking away" from other projects on KS... if anything, it brings people to KS to look at other stuff that might not even have been too aware of KS.   I think this is just a bunch of people whining that they didn't reach their $5k level for their crappy "concept album".
 
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