If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Reuters)   Consumer Reports rates the Tesla Model S a 99/100, tied for the highest score they've ever given. Hey, gas companies, can you see the signs?   (reuters.com) divider line 336
    More: Cool, Model S, Consumer Reports, Fisker Karma, plug-in hybrids, luxury vehicles, 6.0, Porsche Panamera, Back to the Future  
•       •       •

4536 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 May 2013 at 11:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



336 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-05-09 05:01:49 PM  

NightOwl2255: Thrag: NightOwl2255: Thrag: Look, you do not need to continue to reinforce the fact you haven't a clue about business. We get it, you've made it more than obvious.

They just beat their hopeful sales projections by a huge margin. While that is no guarantee of the future, it carries more weight than ignorant naysaying.

Feel better?

Feel bitter?

Well, I have several frakers going ape shiat over their love of an inferior product. I feel pretty good.


This post coming right after the "sad life" comment could not have been more perfect. Did you even feel a twinge of cognitive dissonance typing those two posts?
 
2013-05-09 05:02:25 PM  

NightOwl2255: It's funny how you have to make up excuses for how long and often you have to stop, and then make an ignorant statement like that. In a Civic, no stops, a few gallons of gas and you're there. Get real.


Ok, that's a good comparison! Let's you're driving a 2013 Honda Civic LX automatic sedan (MSRP $22,00 w/ shipping and taxes) 283 miles, that car gets 32 mpg combined (there is typically heavy traffic in the Seattle and Portland metro areas). The trip takes you 4 hours 45 minutes and costs $33.16 in fuel (@ $3.75 a gallon).

Or

You could drive a Nissan Leaf S w/ quick charger (MSRP $23,450 w/ incentives). The trip will take 5 hours, 45 minutes (with 3 stops to recharge) and cost you zero in fuel. By the end of the round trip, I'll have taken two hours more (11.5 vs. 9.5 hours), but I'll have $66 more in my pocket.

It doesn't take a genius to see that it doesn't take that many miles to come out ahead in an electric car. In the 5 months I've owned mine, I've saved $937 in fuel costs already.
 
2013-05-09 05:03:08 PM  

NightOwl2255: And let's hope you have a lot of time to kill while the S charges, and that's if you can find a place to change it.


God forbid an American have to actually plan ahead.

home.comcast.net
 
2013-05-09 05:03:58 PM  

PartTimeBuddha: The reasons you have given have been debunked.


The limited range and long charging time has been debunked? Telsa's's didn't brick because of failure to charge them? Do you know what debunk means?
 
2013-05-09 05:09:48 PM  

knbber2: Yeah, the gas companies are trembling.  I'm sure an $80k car that you can drive for three hours and then have to charge for 12 is going to flood the market.  I'm not against electric cars, but the technology is just not there yet.


Graphene may switch those numbers soon.
 
2013-05-09 05:10:27 PM  

NightOwl2255: Farking Canuck: You have posted 30 or 40 times in this thread, you are posting out-of-date information in the hope of having a negative impact, you are insisting range is the most important thing when all the data and the user testimonials say otherwise.

A car that has a limited range is limited. Deal with it.


It's limited in how far you can go on a single charge, sure.  I'm not sure you're giving this limitation fair weight... I put a lot of miles on my car and can easily count on one, mutilated, fingers-missing hand the number of times in a year that I have to drive more than 200 miles in a single trip.  Actually, it's been once so far this year and I could have rented a car.

On the other-hand, being able to charge your car to full every single night in your garage is a huge advantage.  Now, look at things the other way.  A traditional combustion engine car has the limitation that you have to go to a gas station to fill it up.   How can you rate a gas-powered car highly considering it has such a huge limitation?  I mean, sure, the Audi S7 may be a great car, for a gas powered car, but without being able to wake up every morning with full range available without stopping at a store to fill up the tank, it obviously can't be the best car.

See other advantages to electric cars: maintenance, torque, noise.
 
2013-05-09 05:10:36 PM  

MrSteve007: It doesn't take a genius to see that it doesn't take that many miles to come out ahead in an electric car. In the 5 months I've owned mine, I've saved $937 in fuel costs already.


If all you care about is the bottom line. You still would have to stop more time. Those stops take longer. And you have to find the places to stop that you can charge it. And BTW, are your charges free? How many of these free charging stations are there and who's paying for them?
 
2013-05-09 05:10:48 PM  

Hollie Maea: Thrag: Hollie Maea: NightOwl2255: Yeah, we're all idiots.

Here's an idea.  Why don't you just go short TSLA stock if you are so goddamn sure that they suck?

To be fair, there may be a very short term shorting opportunity as the price will no doubt suffer a correction soon if not tomorrow. It would be an incredibly risky move to try it.

I wouldn't be so sure of a correction.  There are still a ton of people in the market who shorted at $25.  If a bunch of them decide that they want to cut their losses before Elon brings the hammer down on them with the supercharger announcement (coming within a week), it could go up even farther in the next couple of days.  Elon has publicly said that he's going to make sure that the shorters lose their shirts.


I hope you are correct. Especially since my plan to sell at 74 and buy back in after a pullback was foiled by my shiatty mobile trading app refusing to work. (I hold it in my IRA so I have no tax concerns when it comes to a move like that)
 
2013-05-09 05:10:55 PM  
www.uvu.edu
 
2013-05-09 05:12:01 PM  

NightOwl2255: PartTimeBuddha: The reasons you have given have been debunked.

The limited range and long charging time has been debunked? Telsa's's didn't brick because of failure to charge them? Do you know what debunk means?


Run along and go short your stock.  When you make a killing, you can come gloat.  Until then, STFU.
 
2013-05-09 05:12:18 PM  

pjfry: On the other-hand, being able to charge your car to full every single night in your garage is a huge advantage.


That's a good point. You still have to hassle with plugging it in. But, it would still be nice.
 
2013-05-09 05:12:34 PM  

Hollie Maea: Elon has publicly said that he's going to make sure that the shorters lose their shirts.


No wonder NightOwl is so upset.

/~150% gain on the TSLA stock I bought two years ago
 
2013-05-09 05:15:21 PM  

anfrind: Hollie Maea: Elon has publicly said that he's going to make sure that the shorters lose their shirts.

No wonder NightOwl is so upset.

/~150% gain on the TSLA stock I bought two years ago


Wish I hadn't been dirt poor 2 years ago (hazards of going back to school).  But I'm content to just watch electric cars come to the market.
 
2013-05-09 05:15:38 PM  
Give it up guys. NightOwl just wants America to keep suckling at the teet of foreign oil.
 
2013-05-09 05:17:04 PM  

NightOwl2255: PartTimeBuddha: The reasons you have given have been debunked.

The limited range and long charging time has been debunked? Telsa's's didn't brick because of failure to charge them? Do you know what debunk means?


I do. Regrettably, you do not appear to. Guess it's your time to waste, though. Hey -- perhaps that is how you can fill those arduous minutes while you wait for the recharge cycle to complete, eh? :D
 
2013-05-09 05:18:10 PM  

mjohnson71: Give it up guys. NightOwl just wants America to keep suckling at the teet of foreign oil.


Well, that's a pretty stupid statement. I'll let you figure out why. And what's a teet?
 
2013-05-09 05:18:13 PM  

NightOwl2255: If all you care about is the bottom line. You still would have to stop more time. Those stops take longer. And you have to find the places to stop that you can charge it. And BTW, are your charges free? How many of these free charging stations are there and who's paying for them?


media.tumblr.com
 
2013-05-09 05:24:29 PM  

theorellior: NightOwl2255: If all you care about is the bottom line. You still would have to stop more time. Those stops take longer. And you have to find the places to stop that you can charge it. And BTW, are your charges free? How many of these free charging stations are there and who's paying for them?

[media.tumblr.com image 500x375]


Really, that post is the one you use? Damn, I thought it was actually a good question.
 
2013-05-09 05:28:13 PM  

NightOwl2255: MrSteve007: It doesn't take a genius to see that it doesn't take that many miles to come out ahead in an electric car. In the 5 months I've owned mine, I've saved $937 in fuel costs already.

If all you care about is the bottom line. You still would have to stop more time. Those stops take longer. And you have to find the places to stop that you can charge it. And BTW, are your charges free? How many of these free charging stations are there and who's paying for them?


Model S owners can use any supercharger station for free.  Tesla can afford to make such an offer because they're covering each supercharger station with enough solar panels that each station puts more electricity into the grid than it takes out.  And even when you do have to pay for electricity, it still costs way less than an equivalent amount of gasoline.

Not that a shill like you would actually care.
 
2013-05-09 05:34:49 PM  

Thrag: fatbear: Thrag: To be fair, there may be a very short term shorting opportunity as the price will no doubt suffer a correction soon if not tomorrow. It would be an incredibly risky move to try it.

Those two phrases don't belong together. One of them is wrong.

Why? To make money on a short you have to time it right. The price can correct but then recover and go higher again before the gain is realized. You don't just automatically make money the second the stock goes down. To try and short a stock that is gaining momentum on the expectation of a brief correction is indeed risky.


I know how to short irrational exuberance; I do it several times each day. It was an attempt at a humorous observation that you said it would be "risky" to bet on something for which there was "no doubt."

The frog is dead. Move on.
 
2013-05-09 05:35:13 PM  

NightOwl2255: If all you care about is the bottom line. You still would have to stop more time. Those stops take longer. And you have to find the places to stop that you can charge it. And BTW, are your charges free? How many of these free charging stations are there and who's paying for them?


Finding places to charge aren't all that difficult - the car's Nav system automatically pulls in new public charging stations every week or so (it actually just added another 39 charge points within 20 miles of my office this morning). Interestingly, there's becoming so many level 2 charge points, it's hard to make out the level 3 (quick charge) points.

fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net
You can see one quick charge point poking out towards the bottom of Tacoma (it looks more like a gas pump with a plug). Had you taken a look at the link of the West Coast Green Highway, you'd see that WA, OR and CA are putting quick chargers into major gas stations or rest stops, about every 30 miles, from the Canadian to the Mexican borders. Washington and Oregon have decided to go one step further and put fast chargers about every 50 miles along all the highways within the states. Most of those are now operational. And, at least for the next year - they're completely free.

At least for now, I have a quick charge range of ~1,400 miles north/south, and about 300 miles east/west for free.

/my car only shows 83 mile range because it's not fully charged - that's about 85% charged.
 
2013-05-09 05:44:20 PM  

MrSteve007: Interestingly, there's becoming so many level 2 charge points


How long does a level 2 charge take?

MrSteve007: And, at least for the next year - they're completely free.


They're not free, they are free to you. Someone's paying for them. How much will they cost when they are not free?
 
2013-05-09 05:45:39 PM  

MrSteve007: NightOwl2255: If all you care about is the bottom line. You still would have to stop more time. Those stops take longer. And you have to find the places to stop that you can charge it. And BTW, are your charges free? How many of these free charging stations are there and who's paying for them?


<--snip-->

I believe that Nissan was teaming up with someone (GE??) to add a boatload of chargers and have the charge stations free as well.  The same article said they are trying to make it so all Nissan dealers are required to have charge stations which are free also, but not sure if they can enforce that.  Which would make sense as they are trying to push an electric car and that would help with range anxiety.
 
2013-05-09 05:47:58 PM  

NightOwl2255: They're not free, they are free to you. Someone's paying for them. How much will they cost when they are not free?


How much will corn cost in six months' time?
 
2013-05-09 05:48:32 PM  

NightOwl2255: RyansPrivates: NightOwl2255: MrSteve007: So essentially, everything you stated is now wrong.

Damn, you do love you some Tesla, don't ya? That's okay. Did the guy's Tesla brick? Yes. Did Tesla refuse to fix it? Yes. Go on with your bad self.

Has someone not filled changed their oil as proscribed by the owners manuel?  Yes.  Do auto manufacturers refuse to fix burned out engines due to negligence?.  Yes.  Going on with my bad self now, cuz that's how I roll....

Yes, driving a car without any oil is exactly the same as parking your car in a garage, coming back a couple months later and it's dead. $40k dead.


If the car is in your garage, you plug it in. Even if you don't have a 240v NEMA or High Powered Wall Connector, you can just plug it into a standard household 110V outlet, and you can leave the car there for years. This really isn't an issue. You can insist it's an issue, but facts and so forth.

There are inherent pluses and minuses to all technology. ZOMG BRICK! isn't one of them when discussing the Tesla Model S.
 
2013-05-09 05:49:59 PM  

NightOwl2255: They're not free, they are free to you. Someone's paying for them. How much will they cost when they are not free?


The electricity is so cheap that many establishments pay for it in the knowledge that they will make way more in increased sales than they spend on electricity.  Literally the calculated benefit of having a person on their premises for some period of time is higher than the cost of electricity when you are plugged in.

When I charge at home, I pay about 2.5 cents per mile to drive my EV.  And that's at residential rates, which are significantly higher than commercial rates.
 
2013-05-09 05:50:10 PM  

PartTimeBuddha: NightOwl2255: They're not free, they are free to you. Someone's paying for them. How much will they cost when they are not free?

How much will corn cost in six months' time?


Yeah ... he's getting pretty desperate now.

Everyone in the thread is mocking his stupidity and he can't see a way to save face.
 
2013-05-09 05:51:05 PM  

NightOwl2255: MrSteve007: Interestingly, there's becoming so many level 2 charge points

How long does a level 2 charge take?

MrSteve007: And, at least for the next year - they're completely free.

They're not free, they are free to you. Someone's paying for them. How much will they cost when they are not free?


Nissan Leaf battery is 24kwh so from completely dead to full would be 24 * price per kwh ($0.12 national avg) = $2.88 with $1.92 for the Oregon/Washington area.
 
2013-05-09 05:51:55 PM  

Farking Canuck: PartTimeBuddha: NightOwl2255: They're not free, they are free to you. Someone's paying for them. How much will they cost when they are not free?

How much will corn cost in six months' time?

Yeah ... he's getting pretty desperate now.

Everyone in the thread is mocking his stupidity and he can't see a way to save face.


Feel better?
 
2013-05-09 05:55:35 PM  

NightOwl2255: Cyberluddite: Real world experience trumps whatever else you might pull out of your ass.

You really are a dick, huh? No worries, lots of them on here.

As for my ass, you seem infatuated with it, here's where I pulled it out of:

[www.teslamotors.com image 425x341]

According to Tesla, with no AC, under optimal circumstances, you might get 225 at 75mph. And that's running it down to empty, hope you don't run into any traffic. Hope you can find a place to sit around while it recharges. Turn on the radio? Less miles. Turn on the AC? A lot less miles.


Ok, I gotta ask, since you've implied you're from Los Angeles: are there many highways around there with a speed limit of 75? Because there are NO roads around my area where that's legal.  Now I know I don't always go the speed limit, but the likelihood of me driving 225 miles at 75mph consistently is somewhere between slim and infinitesimal. Assuming perfect road conditions it isn't likely. Hell, assuming roads where it's LEGAL, driving for 3 hours without having to slow down for a while or just being forced to stop, odds are still pretty low.

Your claim is foolish because it's unrealistic. And it's unrealistic because unless you're in bizarro world where everyone else drives on sidewalks or through fields leaving the roads open to you, or you put your car on a treadmill to work it out, NOBODY DOES IT.
 
2013-05-09 05:55:57 PM  

NightOwl2255: MrSteve007: Interestingly, there's becoming so many level 2 charge points

How long does a level 2 charge take?


Depends on the model year. My older 2012 model was limited with a 3.6kw charger. The American made 2013 model has a 6.6kw charger (apparently Japanese household wiring doesn't allow more than 3.6kw. With the older model, from dead empty to full, it's about 6 hours. The new car is 3 hours. With a level III charger, I've found it to be 20 minutes.
sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
-my last use of a "fast" charger in South Lake Union, Seattle - last week.

NightOwl2255: MrSteve007: And, at least for the next year - they're completely free.

They're not free, they are free to you. Someone's paying for them. How much will they cost when they are not free?


I have a feeling that's why they're currently free. The companies who are installing them (Aerovironment, Blink Network (Ecotality), Coulomb, Opconnect, Semaconnect, Shorepower) are likely using us early adopters to hone their usage patterns and pricing. When it comes to level 2 chargers, they're going for a rate of $1 an hour of use, or $2 for a full charge, depending on company.
 
2013-05-09 05:59:38 PM  

NightOwl2255: Farking Canuck: PartTimeBuddha: NightOwl2255: They're not free, they are free to you. Someone's paying for them. How much will they cost when they are not free?

How much will corn cost in six months' time?

Yeah ... he's getting pretty desperate now.

Everyone in the thread is mocking his stupidity and he can't see a way to save face.

Feel better?


About the same, thanks. Does this "feel better" shtick help you deal with all everyone pointing out your inept arguments?
 
2013-05-09 06:00:44 PM  

Farking Canuck: Hurr durr. Something new ... must attack it!!!!

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
- Isaac  Asimov


Farking Canuck: NightOwl2255: I'm not anti-electric car

Out of all the lies you've posted in this thread this is by far the largest.

You have posted 30 or 40 times in this thread, you are posting out-of-date information in the hope of having a negative impact, you are insisting range is the most important thing when all the data and the user testimonials say otherwise.

The worst part is that your basic premise is weapon's grade stupidity: "Since this new technology is not the same or better than a mature technology in every category we should not support it".

You clearly have an agenda ... your "concern troll" persona does not hold water.


Farking Canuck: NightOwl2255: A car that has a limited range is limited. Deal with it.

Nobody is arguing that the range of this relatively new technology currently limited.

Why do you feel the need to make 40 posts about this well known point. And why do you need to point out that, in the past, on a previous model, there used to be a battery problem?

Should we be listing every problem that gas powered cars have ever had? Especially in their early days??

Oh that's right - despite your denials, you are anti-electric car and you seem to have a pathetic need to rant on the internet about it. And you are clearly not above posting out of date information ... which is dishonest.


Farking Canuck: NightOwl2255: Feel better?

Yes. I live to point out stupidity.

It was very satisfying to point the spotlight on you and your idiotic arguments.


Farking Canuck: PartTimeBuddha: NightOwl2255: They're not free, they are free to you. Someone's paying for them. How much will they cost when they are not free?

How much will corn cost in six months' time?

Yeah ... he's getting pretty desperate now.

Everyone in the thread is mocking his stupidity and he can't see a way to save face.


Well, you really added to the discussion. Not a single fact. Nothing that would be considered positive. Just threadshiatting. When the word troll was coined, it was for posters like you.
 
2013-05-09 06:01:33 PM  

Jurodan: Ok, I gotta ask, since you've implied you're from Los Angeles


No, I didn't.
 
2013-05-09 06:02:37 PM  

NightOwl2255: Farking Canuck: Hurr durr. Something new ... must attack it!!!!

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
- Isaac  Asimov

Farking Canuck: NightOwl2255: I'm not anti-electric car

Out of all the lies you've posted in this thread this is by far the largest.

You have posted 30 or 40 times in this thread, you are posting out-of-date information in the hope of having a negative impact, you are insisting range is the most important thing when all the data and the user testimonials say otherwise.

The worst part is that your basic premise is weapon's grade stupidity: "Since this new technology is not the same or better than a mature technology in every category we should not support it".

You clearly have an agenda ... your "concern troll" persona does not hold water.

Farking Canuck: NightOwl2255: A car that has a limited range is limited. Deal with it.

Nobody is arguing that the range of this relatively new technology currently limited.

Why do you feel the need to make 40 posts about this well known point. And why do you need to point out that, in the past, on a previous model, there used to be a battery problem?

Should we be listing every problem that gas powered cars have ever had? Especially in their early days??

Oh that's right - despite your denials, you are anti-electric car and you seem to have a pathetic need to rant on the internet about it. And you are clearly not above posting out of date information ... which is dishonest.

Farking Canuck: NightOwl2255: Feel better?

Yes. I live to point out stupidity.

It was very satisfying to point the spotlight on you and your idiotic arguments.

Farking Canuck: PartTimeBuddha: NightOwl2255: They're not free, they are free to you. Someone's paying for them. How much will they cost when they are not free?

How much will corn cost in six months' time?

Yeah ... he's getting pretty desperate now.

Everyone in the thread is mocking his stupidity and he can't see a way to save face.

Well, you really added to the discussion. Not a single fact. Nothing that would be considered positive. Just threadshiatting. When the word troll was coined, it was for posters like you.


Feel better?
 
2013-05-09 06:03:26 PM  
Well boys, gotta go drive my gas guzzler. Thanks to MrSteve007 for being civil. Some of you could learn from him.
 
2013-05-09 06:04:14 PM  
NightOwl2255,I really don't care about this thread, and only see the Tesla as a step in a long journey towards getting away from fossil fuels.

But you have been outclassed at every turn here. You really don't have any valid points anymore, and are just trying to fight your way off the ground now. Go take a nap and stop embarrassing yourself.
 
2013-05-09 06:04:17 PM  

Farking Canuck: About the same, thanks. Does this "feel better" shtick help you deal with all everyone pointing out your inept arguments?


Feel better now? I'm really concerned for you.
 
2013-05-09 06:04:50 PM  

Jurodan: NightOwl2255: Cyberluddite: Real world experience trumps whatever else you might pull out of your ass.

You really are a dick, huh? No worries, lots of them on here.

As for my ass, you seem infatuated with it, here's where I pulled it out of:

[www.teslamotors.com image 425x341]

According to Tesla, with no AC, under optimal circumstances, you might get 225 at 75mph. And that's running it down to empty, hope you don't run into any traffic. Hope you can find a place to sit around while it recharges. Turn on the radio? Less miles. Turn on the AC? A lot less miles.

Ok, I gotta ask, since you've implied you're from Los Angeles: are there many highways around there with a speed limit of 75? Because there are NO roads around my area where that's legal.  Now I know I don't always go the speed limit, but the likelihood of me driving 225 miles at 75mph consistently is somewhere between slim and infinitesimal. Assuming perfect road conditions it isn't likely. Hell, assuming roads where it's LEGAL, driving for 3 hours without having to slow down for a while or just being forced to stop, odds are still pretty low.

Your claim is foolish because it's unrealistic. And it's unrealistic because unless you're in bizarro world where everyone else drives on sidewalks or through fields leaving the roads open to you, or you put your car on a treadmill to work it out, NOBODY DOES IT.


The posted speed limit on highways is almost always 55mph, but unless there's a traffic jam most people will go at least 70mph.  And on a good day it's not that unrealistic to drive 200 miles along I-5 without hitting any serious traffic (or at least it wasn't the last time I drove to Southern California).

Of course, very few people would do that without taking at least a few breaks for meals and/or bathrooms, so NightOwl is still an idiot.
 
2013-05-09 06:08:11 PM  
A little off topic, but I wonder if anyone could help interpret these tables for me?

http://pv.nrcan.gc.ca/index.php?n=2660&m=u&lang=e

I think I understand that "global mean insolation" is the sunlight before it hits Earth's atmosphere -- so it's kind of a theoretical maximum before clouds and air happen. (I could be wrong on that, though; please let me know!)

But the table I'm really having trouble understanding is the first one - the one in "kW/kWh", "PV Potential". I'm assuming this is per square meter, but I'm not sure what this really means. Is this the total per month collectable with a 100% efficient panel, or does it look like assumptions about panel efficiency have been made (say 15% or so?). I have googled "PV Potential" but I'm not clear whether it's really a term of art or not. Any help?
 
2013-05-09 06:08:22 PM  

NightOwl2255: Well, you really added to the discussion. Not a single fact. Nothing that would be considered positive. Just threadshiatting. When the word troll was coined, it was for posters like you


I wasn't discussing the car ... I was discussing your weird obsession with attacking this technology.

And what have you added?

- you've continually insisted that range is the most important factor in a car ... when everyone else, including electric car owners, have pointed out that it rarely comes into play.

- you continually bring up the "brick" incident when it is an old issue on a different car that was due to someone operating against what is clearly laid out in the owner's manual. On top of that, the issue has been retroactively eliminated by a software update and full warranty coverage.

- you've said "feel better" a few times

- you've asked people to predict the future price of the currently free charging

I don't see anything productive in this load of stupidity that you've presented.
 
2013-05-09 06:30:55 PM  
PartTimeBuddha:

I think I understand that "global mean insolation" is the sunlight before it hits Earth's atmosphere -- so it's kind of a theoretical maximum before clouds and air happen. (I could be wrong on that, though; please let me know!)

The "global mean insolation" is how much sunlight is on average hits a surface in a day.  Use the last table which measures in kWh/m^2.  The values on that table are usually reported in units called "peak hours".  Since one sun is defined as 1kW/m^2, when you measure kWh/m^2 that is the same as saying that you have the equivalent of a certain number of hours of peak sun.  So in June if you have a stationary but summer optimized system, it is the equivalent of 5.0 hours of full sun shining right on the surface, while a winter optimized system will see the equivalent of 3.9 hours.  But in January, your summer optimized system will see the equivalent of 1.9 hours of direct full sunlight.  Your winter optimized one will see 2.2 hours.

But the table I'm really having trouble understanding is the first one - the one in "kW/kWh", "PV Potential". I'm assuming this is per square meter, but I'm not sure what this really means. Is this the total per month collectable with a 100% efficient panel, or does it look like assumptions about panel efficiency have been made (say 15% or so?). I have googled "PV Potential" but I'm not clear whether it's really a term of art or not. Any help?

This is really the same information, but it takes into account the area that a typical solar panel takes.  When they talk about kWh/kW, the kWh is the amount of energy that you will get out during that month while the kW is the nameplate rating of the panels.  So if you get a 4kW system (about 15 panels) then your summer optimized system will generate 4*112kWh = 448kWh of energy during June.
 
2013-05-09 06:37:58 PM  

fatbear: Both were expressly prohibited by the manufacturer, both were spelled out in detail in the owner's manual, and both resulted in expensive, non-warrantied damage. Completely different.


Yes they are, I refer you to: 

NightOwl2255: Yes, driving a car without any oil is exactly the same as parking your car in a garage, coming back a couple months later and it's dead. $40k dead.


In other words, if you don't follow directions, as outlined in the owners manual: Surprise! The car may break down irreparably.
 
2013-05-09 06:44:57 PM  

NightOwl2255: Jurodan: Ok, I gotta ask, since you've implied you're from Los Angeles

No, I didn't.


You are correct. I apologize. I missed the beginning of one of your previous comments. This one in particular:

NightOwl2255: I didn't have time to read the entire articel, I will later, but I did see this bit: Of course, as you'd expect, the day I go looking for traffic, on a Friday at rush hour no less, there is none to be found. Semis and commuter laden SUVs blow by me at 80 mph as I putt from the I-210 west to 605 south. I should be door handle to door handle with my fellow Angelenos, but instead they're giving my 52 mph cruising speed the one finger salute. Where is everyone? I soon find out. Just before 4pm, traffic grinds to a halt due at our westward connection, the 105 freeway. As my average speed drops to 8 mph, projected range jumps to between 28 and 56 miles.

That said I will amend my previous question: Where the hell do you live where you can drive 75mph consistently for 3 hours? The rest of the questions and comment still stand though.
 
2013-05-09 06:47:22 PM  
Hollie Maea:

Thank you kindly for that explanation!

I shall busy myself with spreadsheets... :)
 
2013-05-09 06:53:11 PM  

PartTimeBuddha: A little off topic, but I wonder if anyone could help interpret these tables for me?

http://pv.nrcan.gc.ca/index.php?n=2660&m=u&lang=e

I think I understand that "global mean insolation" is the sunlight before it hits Earth's atmosphere -- so it's kind of a theoretical maximum before clouds and air happen. (I could be wrong on that, though; please let me know!)

But the table I'm really having trouble understanding is the first one - the one in "kW/kWh", "PV Potential". I'm assuming this is per square meter, but I'm not sure what this really means. Is this the total per month collectable with a 100% efficient panel, or does it look like assumptions about panel efficiency have been made (say 15% or so?). I have googled "PV Potential" but I'm not clear whether it's really a term of art or not. Any help?


kWh/kW does look a little confusing at first, as do tables that just list it as "hours" or "sun-hours" by cancelling out the kW.  What it's really saying is "for a PV system with a nameplate capacity of 1kW, you will generate this many kWh in a typical day/month/year."

So, if you have a 7kW system on your roof, and the table says your location gets 49kWh per kW in January, your array will make 49 * 7 = 343kWh for the month.

As to the insolation tables, when used for talking about PV, those are more generally talking about the average sun received *at the ground*, not before the atmosphere, and include average weather effects as well.
 
2013-05-09 06:53:24 PM  

NightOwl2255: Farking Canuck: About the same, thanks. Does this "feel better" shtick help you deal with all everyone pointing out your inept arguments?

Feel better now? I'm really concerned for you.


With every post you make, I feel dumber. You don't have $80k to purchase this or any other car. You are not the intended market.  You are the target of buy here, pay here lots where you can spend the same $80k on a 2002 Civic and pay for the gas as you go on your cross country trek searching for a job as a moron. You already have that job here. It pays just as much 600 miles away, charging station or not.
 
2013-05-09 06:56:04 PM  

Jurodan: Where the hell do you live where you can drive 75mph consistently for 3 hours?


To give credit where credit is due, you can drive on I-80 from the border of CA/NV to the border of NE/IA with speed limits of 75 outside of cities.

Then you cross into IA, with their 65mph speed limits, and there are a billion cops pulling everyone over.

At least that's how it was 10 years ago when I drove I-80.
 
2013-05-09 07:00:19 PM  
Another example of how the internet enables people who sit well to the extremes of the standard distribution curve to interact with society at large.
 
2013-05-09 07:17:40 PM  
That's nice, but why are we still building cars at this point? Carbon emissions are only part of the problem. If we're going to ramp up the planet to hold another couple billion people, cars aren't an option for the future.
 
Displayed 50 of 336 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report