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(Reuters)   Consumer Reports rates the Tesla Model S a 99/100, tied for the highest score they've ever given. Hey, gas companies, can you see the signs?   (reuters.com) divider line 336
    More: Cool, Model S, Consumer Reports, Fisker Karma, plug-in hybrids, luxury vehicles, 6.0, Porsche Panamera, Back to the Future  
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4536 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 May 2013 at 11:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-09 12:56:03 PM  

NightOwl2255: MrSteve007: And they are standing on their own now. They're repaying their debt to the taxpayer 2x's as fast as they're contractually obligated and making a profit for shareholders.

From the Tesla web site: At the base price of $62,400, including the $7,500 Federal Tax Credit.


That tax credit doesn't go to the company. It goes to the person purchasing any electric car. Now you're trying to equate a universal personal tax credit to direct support to Tesla.
 
2013-05-09 12:56:48 PM  
Cyberluddite:  You might as well talk about how Ford Pinto fuel tanks exploded on contact as proof that the Ford Focus is a firetrap.

http://www.warrantyguide.co.uk/vehicle-recall-4C02F926B4042E4680257 5F4 002DB8F9-ford-focus-recall

All I did was ask if the Tesla would still brick if the battery ran down.

Tesla had a problem with that in the past. Documented fact.
When they were having problems with it, they did not cover it under warranty. Documented fact.
That tarnished the brand identity in my eyes. And a lot of others' eyes. Documented... fact. Opinion.

So I asked, since Consumer Reports gave them such a great review, if they've fixed the problem.
The answer is "Yes, they fixed it. AND they now cover it with warranty."

Any douchey defensive answer beyond that is really not doing your company any good.
 
2013-05-09 12:57:48 PM  
NightOwl2255:
So, you leave the left coast on a trip across the country. You'll get a little over 100 miles before you need to recharge. Since there is nowhere to recharge, your trip is basically over. But on the upside, you only paid $100k.

So it's inadequate for a task that the average person will do zero times in their lifetime.

Yeah, throw it away - it's useless.
 
2013-05-09 12:58:22 PM  

Hollie Maea: unlikely: Like a Ford is a Ford.

So a Ford Focus is at high risk of rollover following blowout, just because a Ford Explorer was once?  Christ that's dumb....


Yup. A Ford is a Ford.
 
2013-05-09 12:59:47 PM  

Hollie Maea: NightOwl2255: I never said the S would brick.

You responded in the affirmative to UNLIKELY, who stated that the Model S would brick.  Your exact words, responding to a statement about the Model S, were:

 if you let one compeltely run dead, the entire battey will have to be replaced, not under warranty, for about $30k.

That's why I said your statement was 100 percent false.  It is also no longer true for the Roadster--a simple software update that turns off all parasitic loads at a certain depth of discharge was all it took to fix the issue.


Do you see any mention of the S in the below exchange. FlashHarry had obviously heard about the issue with the battery bricking. unlikely was making it like letting the battery drain was the same as letting a car run out of gas. I was pointing out, correctly, that there was an issue with the battery bricking, not like running out of gas and needing a recharge. No mention of the S model in particular.

NightOwl2255: FlashHarry: unlikely: Does it still brick the car if you run out of juice?

just like a regular car, you mean?

No, what he is talking about is if you let one completely run dead, the entire battery will have to be replaced, not under warranty, for about $30k.

 
2013-05-09 01:00:05 PM  
BTW, subby, nice job on the headline. I can't believe I'm the 104th poster, and nobody's given you this:

thegeekydream.files.wordpress.com

25.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-05-09 01:03:08 PM  

unlikely: Yup. A Ford is a Ford.


A bad fan causes risk of rollover?  I'm not going to defend Ford as a great company, but your statement that people don't distinguish between models is one of the dumbest things I have seen in a long time.
 
2013-05-09 01:06:46 PM  

MrSteve007: NightOwl2255: MrSteve007: And they are standing on their own now. They're repaying their debt to the taxpayer 2x's as fast as they're contractually obligated and making a profit for shareholders.

From the Tesla web site: At the base price of $62,400, including the $7,500 Federal Tax Credit.

That tax credit doesn't go to the company. It goes to the person purchasing any electric car. Now you're trying to equate a universal personal tax credit to direct support to Tesla.


Cherry picking are ya?

Here's what I was responding to:

BHShaman: Innovation often requires Gov. assistance to get its feet off the ground, see: Railroads, Mail Service, Telephony, Internet, Tons of Military and NASA applications, Hospitals, etc.


He was saying that innovation (electric cars) needs government help to get off the ground. What I asked was at what point does that help end (not to Tesla alone, to the entire industry). If, according to you, Tesla is doing so well, building the best car every made, paying off loans, making money, isn't that a indication that they no longer need the subsides?
 
2013-05-09 01:06:47 PM  

Hollie Maea: unlikely: Yup. A Ford is a Ford.

A bad fan causes risk of rollover?  I'm not going to defend Ford as a great company, but your statement that people don't distinguish between models is one of the dumbest things I have seen in a long time.


Whatever.

To most people paying attention, Tesla is the company whose cars brick when they run out of juice. No matter how unjust you think that is, the PR debacle that was the bricked-batteries-no-warranty went far and wide.

You being a complete dick to people who honestly and sincerely try to figure out if that has been resolved is not helping your reputation. Not even a little.

Sorry if that doesn't make sense to you.
 
2013-05-09 01:11:05 PM  

unlikely: All I did was ask if the Tesla would still brick if the battery ran down.
Any douchey defensive answer beyond that is really not doing your company any good.


Yes, I know.  You asked a valid question, you got an answer, and you accepted that answer, and you seem to have read up on the issue and understood it, and I'm glad.

Any douchey responses I may have written here were not directed at you, nor should you think they were.  They were directed at the particular individual whose posts I was responding to, and that wasn't you.  If you thought otherwise, I'm sorry you got that wrong impression, but they're definitely not a response to anything you said in here, nor should they be.
 
2013-05-09 01:12:33 PM  

Hollie Maea: unlikely: That's new.
It was not that way when the first round of bricks were reported.

That's why I asked.

Bricking has NEVER been an issue for the Model S.  So your statement "Does IT still brick" in response to the article about the Model S was wrong.


But the batteries do, in fact, still brick when run completely out of charge.
 
2013-05-09 01:12:51 PM  

NightOwl2255: Tesla is doing so well, building the best car every made, paying off loans, making money, isn't that a indication that they no longer need the subsides?


The subsidies are about encouraging people to embrace new technology. When people don't need any more encouragement they will stop, but people like yourself seem awfully committed to a technological dinosaur from 1860, so that may take some time.
 
2013-05-09 01:14:38 PM  

enik: Comrade Reports never met a hybrid or cheap car (non-American, of course) they didn't love.


Huh, its almost like cheap American cars are total crap, and have been for a very long time, especially when compared to Japanese cars made in the US.  When I asked my dad to name the last market leader small car GM made he listed one he bought before I was born.  I am 27.
 
2013-05-09 01:15:02 PM  

fatbear: NightOwl2255:
So, you leave the left coast on a 300 mile trip across the country. You'll get a little over 100 miles before you need to recharge. Since there is nowhere to recharge, your trip is basically over. But on the upside, you only paid $100k.

So it's inadequate for a task that the average person will do zero times in their lifetime.

Yeah, throw it away - it's useless.


Now have it. It's a $70-80-90K car that might make it 150 miles at 75 with the AC on. And once you travel that 150 miles you are SOL for hours while it recharges. That's if you can find somewhere to recharge. Most people will make a 300 mile car trip in their life. As a commuter (second car) car, it's the tops.
 
2013-05-09 01:18:28 PM  

NightOwl2255: Now have it. It's a $70-80-90K car that might make it 150 miles at 75 with the AC on. And once you travel that 150 miles you are SOL for hours while it recharges. That's if you can find somewhere to recharge. Most people will make a 300 mile car trip in their life. As a commuter (second car) car, it's the tops.


Here's his daily schedule:

4:00 AM : Wake up
5:00 AM : Start Drive to Work in California
10:00 AM Arrive at Work in New York

Any car that can't get him there is SUBSTANDARD.
 
2013-05-09 01:19:11 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: NightOwl2255: Tesla is doing so well, building the best car every made, paying off loans, making money, isn't that a indication that they no longer need the subsides?

The subsidies are about encouraging people to embrace new technology. When people don't need any more encouragement they will stop, but people like yourself seem awfully committed to a technological dinosaur from 1860, so that may take some time.


I see you have completely missed the point. Should they be getting government help? Why the hell not, everyone else seems to be. But, don't piss on my leg and say it's raining. Tesla is doing so well in no small part due to the government help. Until all subsides end, Tesla well continue to be sucking at the mother teat.
 
2013-05-09 01:20:44 PM  

NightOwl2255: He was saying that innovation (electric cars) needs government help to get off the ground. What I asked was at what point does that help end (not to Tesla alone, to the entire industry). If, according to you, Tesla is doing so well, building the best car every made, paying off loans, making money, isn't that a indication that they no longer need the subsides?


As I said, Tesla isn't getting that subsudy, the buyers of the car are (they're the ones who fill out that line on their annual tax return - not Tesla). I fully believe Tesla would do just fine without it, but that's not how the law was written. And as per the tax code, once they are deemed sucessful by the market (with more than 200,000 models sold), that model no longer qualifies for the credit.

With that said, do you think Nissan shouldn't have the buyers of the LEAF qualify, because Nissan makes a profit?
 
2013-05-09 01:24:27 PM  

knbber2: Yeah, the gas companies are trembling.  I'm sure an $80k car that you can drive for three hours and then have to charge for 12 is going to flood the market.  I'm not against electric cars, but the technology is just not there yet.


It never will be with the electric car.
 
2013-05-09 01:25:03 PM  
NightOwl2255:  a $70-80-90K car that might make it 150 miles at 75 with the AC on.

One of my two friends who has one drives like a bat out of hell (the car he replaced with his Tesla is a Porsche Carrera 4S, so he's not exactly a slow driver--though the Tesla outperforms the Porsche), and his car has the performance package (with the higher-output motor that sucks up more juice).  He drove his from Sacramento to the Sierra (near Lake Tahoe) to the Bay Area a few weeks ago on one charge--probably 250 miles.

Real world experience trumps whatever else you might pull out of your ass.
 
2013-05-09 01:25:04 PM  

NightOwl2255: fatbear: NightOwl2255:
So, you leave the left coast on a 300 mile trip across the country. You'll get a little over 100 miles before you need to recharge. Since there is nowhere to recharge, your trip is basically over. But on the upside, you only paid $100k.

So it's inadequate for a task that the average person will do zero times in their lifetime.

Yeah, throw it away - it's useless.

Now have it. It's a $70-80-90K car that might make it 150 miles at 75 with the AC on. And once you travel that 150 miles you are SOL for hours while it recharges. That's if you can find somewhere to recharge. Most people will make a 300 mile car trip in their life. As a commuter (second car) car, it's the tops.


Now that you've changed your argument by 90%, it makes sense.

Change "electricity" to "petrol" in your argument and you have a valid defense against the early automobile - and we all know what a complete failure THAT turned out to be.

Why piss on the early adopters? They're going to make it affordable for the rest of us
 
2013-05-09 01:25:15 PM  

NightOwl2255: I see you have completely missed the point. Should they be getting government help? Why the hell not, everyone else seems to be. But, don't piss on my leg and say it's raining. Tesla is doing so well in no small part due to the government help. Until all subsides end, Tesla well continue to be sucking at the mother teat.


Like someone else already pointed out, oil companies have received trillions in subsidies, and also tax breaks and whatever else they want. And they've been profitable for over a century. If you have a problem with companies 'sucking at the mother teat' and taking your tax dollars when they don't need them, look no further than oil companies.

Whatever help Tesla gets in miniscule in comparison, and can actually be justified because it's new tech which should be adopted.
 
2013-05-09 01:25:16 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: NightOwl2255: Now have it. It's a $70-80-90K car that might make it 150 miles at 75 with the AC on. And once you travel that 150 miles you are SOL for hours while it recharges. That's if you can find somewhere to recharge. Most people will make a 300 mile car trip in their life. As a commuter (second car) car, it's the tops.

Here's his daily schedule:

4:00 AM : Wake up
5:00 AM : Start Drive to Work in California
10:00 AM Arrive at Work in New York

Any car that can't get him there is SUBSTANDARD.


Damn right!

Any car that can't go 200 miles without needing a several hour charge (if you can find a place to recharge) is very substandard for my needs.
 
2013-05-09 01:27:11 PM  
NightOwl2255:
At what point is its feet off the ground? According to one Farker, Tesla S is the best car ever produced. Shouldn't they be able to stand on their own by now?

I'm glad my bank does not feel that way about my mortgage.

"Hello, Mr. BHShaman? We have been doing some analysis and we have found that ow you have a 30year loan at a really low interest rate. I'm sure you value how that low interest rate allows you to invest money other places like; enhanced education, additional goods and services, or otherwise manage YOUR money the way you like. But, here at Big Banking we have run your credit and it seems like you making more than enough money to repay your loan NOW. Rather than allow you to adhere to the terms of our agreement, we are going to help you get all bootstrappy by requiring you to pay off your balance more expeditiously by accelerating your payment terms."
 
2013-05-09 01:28:15 PM  

Intrepid00: knbber2: Yeah, the gas companies are trembling.  I'm sure an $80k car that you can drive for three hours and then have to charge for 12 is going to flood the market.  I'm not against electric cars, but the technology is just not there yet.

It never will be with the electric car.


People who predict the future using the word "never" are never wrong.
 
2013-05-09 01:28:16 PM  

NightOwl2255: Cyberluddite: They have a range of 250-300 miles depending on the battery and options

Wow, you really have laid it on. Are you on their payroll?
Tesla says the car can go 300 miles at 55 mph.
 [www.teslamotors.com image 425x341]

At 75, with no AC, you would be lucky to get 150 miles. Turn on the AC and I'm guessing it's closer to 125 (or less).

So, you leave the left coast on a trip across the country. You'll get a little over 100 miles before you need to recharge. Since there is nowhere to recharge, your trip is basically over. But on the upside, you only paid $100k.


I don't understand.  It recharges just fine at the airport or train station, both of which are within 50 miles of me.  Wait...have I suddenly become the world's biggest moron and am actually DRIVING across the country?
 
2013-05-09 01:29:17 PM  

NightOwl2255: Now have it. It's a $70-80-90K car that might make it 150 miles at 75 with the AC on. And once you travel that 150 miles you are SOL for hours while it recharges. That's if you can find somewhere to recharge. Most people will make a 300 mile car trip in their life. As a commuter (second car) car, it's the tops.


Motortrend did 285 miles from LA/Vegas, in 101 degree heat, with the A/C on and traveling at 65 mph. They did three different 250+ mile interstate trips over mountain passes, using all different methods, and made it every time.
 
2013-05-09 01:32:24 PM  

Cyberluddite: Real world experience trumps whatever else you might pull out of your ass.


You really are a dick, huh? No worries, lots of them on here.

As for my ass, you seem infatuated with it, here's where I pulled it out of:

www.teslamotors.com

According to Tesla, with no AC, under optimal circumstances, you might get 225 at 75mph. And that's running it down to empty, hope you don't run into any traffic. Hope you can find a place to sit around while it recharges. Turn on the radio? Less miles. Turn on the AC? A lot less miles.
 
2013-05-09 01:33:18 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: Whatever help Tesla gets in miniscule in comparison, and can actually be justified because it's new tech which should be adopted.


Fine, no problem. Just don't try and claim otherwise.
 
2013-05-09 01:35:43 PM  

BHShaman: NightOwl2255:
At what point is its feet off the ground? According to one Farker, Tesla S is the best car ever produced. Shouldn't they be able to stand on their own by now?

I'm glad my bank does not feel that way about my mortgage.

"Hello, Mr. BHShaman? We have been doing some analysis and we have found that ow you have a 30year loan at a really low interest rate. I'm sure you value how that low interest rate allows you to invest money other places like; enhanced education, additional goods and services, or otherwise manage YOUR money the way you like. But, here at Big Banking we have run your credit and it seems like you making more than enough money to repay your loan NOW. Rather than allow you to adhere to the terms of our agreement, we are going to help you get all bootstrappy by requiring you to pay off your balance more expeditiously by accelerating your payment terms."


Poor analogy is poor. Let's talk about section 8 housing. They are getting subsides (you do know what those are, yes?) not just a loan.
 
2013-05-09 01:36:13 PM  

NightOwl2255: According to Tesla, with no AC, under optimal circumstances, you might get 225 at 75mph. And that's running it down to empty, hope you don't run into any traffic. Hope you can find a place to sit around while it recharges. Turn on the radio? Less miles. Turn on the AC? A lot less miles.


See, now you're really not making any sense. As someone who drives an EV everyday (and as you can see in that graph), electric cars friggen love traffic. Between the reduced wind resistance and the regnerative braking, you easily see range double. I'll often see a boost to ~125 mile range in my LEAF while in traffic, even though it's rated for 75 miles.

Also, the 12v loads (lights, radio, etc) do almost nothing to range. We're talking 0.1% sort of change here.
 
2013-05-09 01:39:07 PM  

unlikely: To most people paying attention, Tesla is the company whose cars brick when they run out of juice. No matter how unjust you think that is, the PR debacle that was the bricked-batteries-no-warranty went far and wide.

You being a complete dick to people who honestly and sincerely try to figure out if that has been resolved is not helping your reputation. Not even a little.

Sorry if that doesn't make sense to you.


Honestly, I don't have much beef with your question.  My issue is more with Night Owl, who claims to have known better but still implied that this is an issue.  My biggest beef with you is the idea that no one distinguishes between models.  That seems odd.

All that said, I wouldn't describe someone who latches onto a single breathless article on an issue and then never follows up on it as "people paying attention".
 
2013-05-09 01:39:14 PM  

NightOwl2255: According to Tesla, with no AC, under optimal circumstances, you might get 225 at 75mph. And that's running it down to empty, hope you don't run into any traffic. Hope you can find a place to sit around while it recharges. Turn on the radio? Less miles. Turn on the AC? A lot less miles.


The radio isn't going to meaningfully impact your range.  The AC will, of course.  But traffic actually increases your range.  The rules are different for electric cars...
 
2013-05-09 01:42:11 PM  

MrSteve007: NightOwl2255: Now have it. It's a $70-80-90K car that might make it 150 miles at 75 with the AC on. And once you travel that 150 miles you are SOL for hours while it recharges. That's if you can find somewhere to recharge. Most people will make a 300 mile car trip in their life. As a commuter (second car) car, it's the tops.

Motortrend did 285 miles from LA/Vegas, in 101 degree heat, with the A/C on and traveling at 65 mph. They did three different 250+ mile interstate trips over mountain passes, using all different methods, and made it every time.


I didn't have time to read the entire articel, I will later, but I did see this bit: Of course, as you'd expect, the day I go looking for traffic, on a Friday at rush hour no less, there is none to be found. Semis and commuter laden SUVs blow by me at 80 mph as I putt from the I-210 west to 605 south. I should be door handle to door handle with my fellow Angelenos, but instead they're giving my 52 mph cruising speed the one finger salute. Where is everyone? I soon find out. Just before 4pm, traffic grinds to a halt due at our westward connection, the 105 freeway. As my average speed drops to 8 mph, projected range jumps to between 28 and 56 miles.
 
2013-05-09 01:49:33 PM  

Parkanzky: The AC will, of course.


Not as much as you think.  Air conditioners take about 2kW of power.  So running the AC for an hour will knock about 5 miles of range off of a Model S.
 
2013-05-09 01:57:10 PM  

AntonChigger: NightOwl2255: Cyberluddite: They have a range of 250-300 miles depending on the battery and options

Wow, you really have laid it on. Are you on their payroll?
Tesla says the car can go 300 miles at 55 mph.
 [www.teslamotors.com image 425x341]

At 75, with no AC, you would be lucky to get 150 miles. Turn on the AC and I'm guessing it's closer to 125 (or less).

So, you leave the left coast on a trip across the country. You'll get a little over 100 miles before you need to recharge. Since there is nowhere to recharge, your trip is basically over. But on the upside, you only paid $100k.

NightOwl2255: Cyberluddite: Tesla did receive a small part of its initial capital in an interest-bearing loan from the Department of Energy--which it's paying back on schedule out of corporate profits, under a program set up by the Bush administration. Otherwise, it's completely privately capitalized. This isn't Fiskar. It's doing great--which I'm happy about, as I bought a couple hundred shares a few months ago and the price has gone up about 25% or more since then.

Tesla Motors enjoys massive financial support from the Federal government, as well as various state and local governments: The Department of Energy (DOE) provided Tesla with $465 mln of low-interest loans under its Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing Loan Program, buyers of the Tesla Model S luxury sedan gain $7,500 of Federal tax credits (at an annual cost to taxpayers of $150 mln at 'full output' of 20,000 Model S sedans per year) and state and local government incentives include a $2,500 rebate for Model S buyers in California, sales tax waivers, free parking, free charging and authorized travel in car pool lanes. Electric vehicle charging stations have also been subsidized, with Federal tax credits ranging from 30% of the cost of a home charger, up to a $1,000 tax credit, to $30,000 for the installation of commercial chargers. In addition, government environmental credit schemes forced other auto makers to pay ...


They also lie about the numbers (while we can see the numbers in the chart they, themselves, posted) in an earlier reply. Perhaps they think we won't see that they're telling lies? Perhaps they think that if they bleat loud enough the other sheep will follow? Either way, they're telling straight up lies and it is obviously intentional.
 
2013-05-09 01:58:57 PM  

NightOwl2255: Cyberluddite: They have a range of 250-300 miles depending on the battery and options

Wow, you really have laid it on. Are you on their payroll?
Tesla says the car can go 300 miles at 55 mph.
 [www.teslamotors.com image 425x341]

At 75, with no AC, you would be lucky to get 150 miles. Turn on the AC and I'm guessing it's closer to 125 (or less).

So, you leave the left coast on a trip across the country. You'll get a little over 100 miles before you need to recharge. Since there is nowhere to recharge, your trip is basically over. But on the upside, you only paid $100k.


To be fair, if you are buying an $80K car, you are probably flying on the cross country trip. If you bought a Tesla, you aren't hauling your dorm room back home at the end of the school year in one.
 
2013-05-09 02:01:05 PM  

NightOwl2255: MrSteve007: NightOwl2255: No, what he is talking about is if you let one compeltely run dead, the entire battey will have to be replaced, not under warranty, for about $30k.

You need a new talking point. Tesla now has an unlimited, "no fault" battery warranty. Even if an owner deliberately trys to destroy or abuse the battery, they'll replace it for free.

Calm down. I could not care less about Tesla. I was just repeating a story, that happens to be true.


Except isn't the story not true if they are actually covered under warranty?
 
2013-05-09 02:01:25 PM  
NightOwl2255:

Poor analogy is poor.

No, it is completely the right analogy.
Tesla got a LOAN, at rates agreeable to both parties, and they are paying it back in full on the schedule agreed upon. Unlike my bank loan on my house, the Gov. also sees secondary benefits like; other automakers being pressured to keep up, e-stations being built around the country to meet the demand, and future capable technologies that larger auto makers might see as cutting into their core business (gas powered transportation).

Unless Gov is paying for the facilities which Tesla uses, without any amount of compensation.....
Telsa is not at all like a person requiring housing assistance via Section 8.

Next argument from you will probably be about ObamaCell....

Last post from me in this dialog.  Out
 
2013-05-09 02:04:37 PM  

snowshovel: NightOwl2255: Cyberluddite: They have a range of 250-300 miles depending on the battery and options

Wow, you really have laid it on. Are you on their payroll?
Tesla says the car can go 300 miles at 55 mph.
 [www.teslamotors.com image 425x341]

At 75, with no AC, you would be lucky to get 150 miles. Turn on the AC and I'm guessing it's closer to 125 (or less).

So, you leave the left coast on a trip across the country. You'll get a little over 100 miles before you need to recharge. Since there is nowhere to recharge, your trip is basically over. But on the upside, you only paid $100k.

To be fair, if you are buying an $80K car, you are probably flying on the cross country trip. If you bought a Tesla, you aren't hauling your dorm room back home at the end of the school year in one.


Elon Musk's cryptic tweet a couple hours ago . . . "There is a way for the Tesla Model S to be recharged throughout the country faster than you could fill a gas tank."

I'm thinking Tesla battery swaps. That would make sense, since their new warranty covers everything involving the battery.
 
2013-05-09 02:05:45 PM  

majestic: Even if you can "fill-up" at a supercharger station, who has an entire hour to refuel? I can fuel up my vehicle in 5 minutes and be back on the road. It's always seemed to me that the way to make the EV feasible is to have battery swap out stations. Pull in with a nearly depleted battery and the station attendant swaps it out for a fresh one in under 10 minutes.  The station recharges the used batteries for later swaps.


According to Wiki, the Tesla Roadster's battery weighs ~1000 lbs. http://en .wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster#Battery_system

I can't find any specifics for the weight of the Tesla S battery, but considering the increase in capicity it will be larger and heavier. These batteries are very large, very heavy objects.

In order to have any sort of efficient swapping system, you would need some type of standardized battery across many models and makes of cars. You would also need to ensure that the battery is easily accessible.

In order to have any sort of efficient swapping system, you would need some type of standardized battery across many models and makes of cars. You would also need to ensure that the battery is easily accessible. Neither of these is currently true. In order to implement any sort of swappable battery auto manufactures will be forced to make many design compromises. It is likely that a car with a swappable battery would therefore have less range than a similar car with a non-swappable battery.

A battery swap is only going to be useful for people traveling long distances. Most people do not do this on any sort of consistent basis. So the market for swaps is not going to be large.

I just don't see swappable batteries happening. I can't see how a system could be implemented that would swap out a battery quickly and for reasonable cost.
 
2013-05-09 02:10:38 PM  

NightOwl2255: Cyberluddite: Whose ass did you pull that out of?

Damn, you have some issues. You make silly statements like Tesla charging stations being "all over the place when in fact, they are in in two states only.

Now, as for my ass. In the case of a Tesla, you apparently can't just do a deep and loving recharge: no battery version of the dent wizard. When the battery bricks, or fully discharges, you replace the battery pack at a cost of around $40,000 ($32,000 plus labor and taxes). It's not covered by the Tesla warranty or car insurance. You can buy a $12,000 replacement policy that would cover a worn out battery but not a dead-from-total-discharge battery while the car is under warranty.
This was from Feb 2012. Seems like they have made some changes, but, Skippy, it don't make it POA materiel.


You, yourself, posted a picture earlier that indicated the chargers are in three states. The only substantial difference between the two numbers is the degree to which it indicates your ability to be dishonest.

Why are you lying?
 
2013-05-09 02:11:01 PM  

give me doughnuts: R.A.Danny: If you can afford an $80,000 second car I'm very happy for you. Or if your needs make the relatively short range feasible.


The average American commuter spent (in 2011) about 50 minutes on the road. Even if you combine that with around-town errands and/or schlepping the kids to and fro most people's driving needs could be easily met by this car, or it's cheaper brethren in the near future.

I see the typical 2-car family of 2020 having one all-electric and one hybrid.*


*Barring GOP presidencies, asteroid strike, zombie apocalypse, or other horrific disasters.


I wasn't being sarcastic for once. They seem to be great cars. Not designed for road trips, not for loooong commutes. They have a niche and seem to fill it very well.
 
2013-05-09 02:12:09 PM  
Elon Musk sues anyone who gives them bad reviews.

I imagine Consumer Reports just didn't want the hassle.
 
2013-05-09 02:14:18 PM  
Slightly related since electric cars will increase the demand for electricity, has anyone else noticed that the price of solar panels has dropped faster than a pair of panties at a frat kegger? Down 80% over the past four years. It's crazy... but the good kind of crazy, not the show up at your door at 3am declaring never ending love kind of crazy.

/Mostly because solar doesn't work very well at 3am
 
2013-05-09 02:15:06 PM  

MrSteve007: I'm thinking Tesla battery swaps. That would make sense, since their new warranty covers everything involving the battery.


I don't see them going down the battery swap road.  They should know better than that.
 
2013-05-09 02:17:15 PM  
NightOwl2255:
I didn't have time to read the entire articel, I will later, but I did see this bit: Of course, as you'd expect, the day I go looking for traffic, on a Friday at rush hour no less, there is none to be found. Semis and commuter laden SUVs blow by me at 80 mph as I putt from the I-210 west to 605 south. I should be door handle to door handle with my fellow Angelenos, but instead they're giving my 52 mph cruising speed the one finger salute. Where is everyone? I soon find out. Just before 4pm, traffic grinds to a halt due at our westward connection, the 105 freeway. As my average speed drops to 8 mph, projected range jumps to between 28 and 56 miles.


Now the question that needs to really be asked is, what is the posted speed limit of that road? Honest question. I don't live in CA so I have no idea what those roads are like. Going 52 in a posted 50 zone is fine. Conversely going 52 in a posted 65 is just stupid.
 
2013-05-09 02:17:55 PM  

Cyberluddite: NightOwl2255:   Tesla outperforms the Porsche

Carrera 4S  ,

Outperforms it how?
 
2013-05-09 02:18:18 PM  

fluffy2097: Elon Musk sues anyone who gives them bad reviews.

I imagine Consumer Reports just didn't want the hassle.


Really? He sued the NYTimes? When?
 
2013-05-09 02:18:21 PM  

NightOwl2255: Any car that can't go 200 miles without needing a several hour charge (if you can find a place to recharge) is very substandard for my needs.


Then don't buy one.

From moped to 18-wheeler, we have different vehicles for different purposes.  There's not such thing as an "all-purpose vehicle".
 
2013-05-09 02:18:39 PM  

EngineerAU: Slightly related since electric cars will increase the demand for electricity, has anyone else noticed that the price of solar panels has dropped faster than a pair of panties at a frat kegger? Down 80% over the past four years. It's crazy... but the good kind of crazy, not the show up at your door at 3am declaring never ending love kind of crazy.

/Mostly because solar doesn't work very well at 3am


Yep. I'm looking to double the 13kw solar array on the roof of our office in the coming months; get the place up to 50% powered by on-site solar.

The price we paid for 10kw of PV array in 2007 was $10 a watt ($100,000). Today we can do it for about $3.50 a watt.

Interestingly, at least in this area of the country, the overal ROI date always ends up being just about the same, regardless of when we install the panels. In 2007, the ROI date was 12 years out 2019. In 2013, the ROI date is 6.5 years out, in 2019.
 
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