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(Reuters)   Consumer Reports rates the Tesla Model S a 99/100, tied for the highest score they've ever given. Hey, gas companies, can you see the signs?   (reuters.com) divider line 336
    More: Cool, Model S, Consumer Reports, Fisker Karma, plug-in hybrids, luxury vehicles, 6.0, Porsche Panamera, Back to the Future  
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4536 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 May 2013 at 11:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-09 12:03:30 PM  
This might work in dense places, like SoCal and New England, but for most of the country if a place isn't close it's way far. I'm reminded of a observation; In Europe a hundred miles is a long distance, in the united states a hundred years is a long time.

/shiat, a round trip to my gym would use 5% of the range.
 
2013-05-09 12:03:37 PM  

AntonChigger: Uh, he seems pretty calm to me bro. You're the one with multiple posts trying to paint Tesla as a piece of shiat.


Well, if it walks like a duck...
 
2013-05-09 12:03:53 PM  

FlashHarry: NightOwl2255: An uproar recently ignited on automotive blogs over a post about a Tesla Roadster whose battery needed replacement after its owner parked the car, low on charge and unplugged, for more than two months. The battery, which had fully discharged, could not be revived.

it sounds like the manual and whatnot stated that you shouldn't let the battery fully discharge, and yet this guy did just that. which would be like driving your car without oil. in any case, $30k for a battery does seem insane.


Costs for these batteries run around $500 per KWh. So an 85KWh being sold a $30k is actually a pretty good deal. They are either subsidizing a bit, or they have made good progress in getting battery costs down.

Remember, that means that the car itself costs over $50k without a battery - which is pretty damn expensive. You can buy a brand new Corvette, with an engine, for the cost of the car alone.
 
2013-05-09 12:07:07 PM  
People who spend 80-100k on a car often have a 2nd or even 3rd vehicle they can use for car trips. As a daily commuter the Model S is the best car out there.
 
2013-05-09 12:07:54 PM  

madgonad: Remember, that means that the car itself costs over $50k without a battery - which is pretty damn expensive.


true - but you have to factor a lot of R&D and proprietary parts into that as well. it's not like tesla can buy off-the-shelf parts from suppliers like the detroit boys can - not when it comes to the powertrain, anyway.
 
2013-05-09 12:08:30 PM  

knbber2: Yeah, the gas companies are trembling.  I'm sure an $80k car that you can drive for three hours and then have to charge for 12 is going to flood the market.  I'm not against electric cars, but the technology is just not there yet.


Not to mention they're not gas companies, they're energy companies. With everyone so afraid of nuclear and the right against solar and wind no matter what, looks like they have a bright future with gas electricity plants.

They'll go where they need to go to keep making money off us all, have no fear.
 
2013-05-09 12:09:12 PM  

majestic: Even if you can "fill-up" at a supercharger station, who has an entire hour to refuel? I can fuel up my vehicle in 5 minutes and be back on the road. It's always seemed to me that the way to make the EV feasible is to have battery swap out stations. Pull in with a nearly depleted battery and the station attendant swaps it out for a fresh one in under 10 minutes.  The station recharges the used batteries for later swaps.


 There's a company called Better Place that's trying to commercialize a set up like that.
 
2013-05-09 12:11:14 PM  

Silly_Sot: If Tesla is so great, cut off all government funding and subsidies, both direct and indirect. Then, since Tesla is so great, it will support itself.


The one federal government *loan* they got is being repaid, and repaid early - considering it's a *loan,* taxpayers are going to be repaid, with interest.

As for the subsidies, the tax credit currently goes to the *buyers* of any electric vehicle, regardless of brand (I can't speak to any subsudies the company may have received from the state of Cali).

I'll be curious what people will attempt to biatch about when Tesla repays their loan in full. They've already made what most consider to be the best automobile ever built, with the best warranty and depreciation guarantee ever seen for a car - and it just happens to be electric & built entirely by Californians.
 
2013-05-09 12:13:28 PM  
NightOwl2255: FlashHarry: unlikely: Does it still brick the car if you run out of juice?
 
just like a regular car, you mean?

No, what he is talking about is if you let one compeltely run dead, the entire battey will have to be replaced, not under warranty, for about $30k.


Whose ass did you pull that out of?


The car's system isn't going to let you run the battery down low enough to brick it.  At some point, if you run the battery down low enough, it'll shut the motor down and make you pull over to the side of the road, as you would have to do if you ran out of gas in your car.  But there will still be enough juice at that point to open and close the doors, unlock the emergency brake, keep the car's management system up, etc. There's no way the car's very sophisticated electronic/computer management system is going to let the battery get down to absolute zero, so your fantasy is a non-issue.
 
2013-05-09 12:15:55 PM  
notthisshiatagain.jpg

I went "all in" on a Ford Escape hybrid a few years ago, and it's been worth every nickel

/haters gonna hate, etc.
 
2013-05-09 12:16:30 PM  

Cyberluddite: In less than a year, yeah. They'll be nationwide fairly soon.


Tesla is making a big supercharger announcement this week (probably today; Elon is teasing it on Twitter right now).
 
2013-05-09 12:18:31 PM  

NightOwl2255: At 75, with no AC, you would be lucky to get 150 miles.


Why are you reading the "Roadster" graph to make arguments about the Model S?
 
2013-05-09 12:19:15 PM  

unlikely: Does it still brick the car if you run out of juice?


If it bricks, warranty covers it.  Even if it is your fault.
 
2013-05-09 12:20:19 PM  

NightOwl2255: No, what he is talking about is if you let one compeltely run dead, the entire battey will have to be replaced, not under warranty, for about $30k.


100 percent false.
 
2013-05-09 12:23:57 PM  

flaminio: In the Bay Area, I see Nissan Leafs all the time, and a Model S at least two or three times a day. Part of the reason is the little white sticker that lets you use the HOV lane. But since most families around here have two cars, it makes perfect sense to have an electric commuter and a gas powered long range cruiser.

Or, you could have only the electric, and the times you need to take a road trip, rent. As gas prices increase, this is a viable financial model.

I also think that plug-in hybrids don't get nearly the love they deserve. Best of both in one car.


I'm in the bay area, too, and have noticed that. My employer also has charging stations set up.

Since 90% of my commute is just three miles back and forth to work, I'm seriously considering getting, at the minimum, a plug-in hybrid for our next vehicle.
 
2013-05-09 12:24:36 PM  

NightOwl2255: Without sucking the government teat (not the only one, of course) Tesla would not stand a chance. Well, they would have a lot harder row to hoe.


Wow. Private Sector Stooges really want America to Fail.

Innovation often requires Gov. assistance to get its feet off the ground, see: Railroads, Mail Service, Telephony, Internet,  Tons of Military and NASA applications, Hospitals, etc.

Remove Gov. from supporting business and we'll get Somalia.

The Gov. TEAT should not be reserved for;  Big Oil, Big Food, Big Pharma, and GE/Chrysler. Despite the fact that each of the BIG listed want to squash any other Gov. funded initiatives that might eventually compete with them.
 
2013-05-09 12:26:07 PM  

FlashHarry: madgonad: Remember, that means that the car itself costs over $50k without a battery - which is pretty damn expensive.

true - but you have to factor a lot of R&D and proprietary parts into that as well. it's not like tesla can buy off-the-shelf parts from suppliers like the detroit boys can - not when it comes to the powertrain, anyway.


Not necessarily, but you are pretty close. The Roadster was essentially a Lotus with electric motors and no engine. This article talks specifically about part sourcing for the S.
 
2013-05-09 12:26:25 PM  

Cyberluddite: Whose ass did you pull that out of?


The car's system isn't going to let you run the battery down low enough to brick it.


It sounds like they've addressed it and added a warranty just in case, but

http://jalopnik.com/5887265/tesla-motors-devastating-design-problem
 
2013-05-09 12:27:01 PM  

Hollie Maea: NightOwl2255: No, what he is talking about is if you let one compeltely run dead, the entire battey will have to be replaced, not under warranty, for about $30k.

100 percent false.


Used to be true. Apparently they've remedied it. I didn't know they'd fixed it till researching for this thread.

http://jalopnik.com/5887265/tesla-motors-devastating-design-problem
 
2013-05-09 12:27:18 PM  
Amazing the bullshiat and disinfo out there regarding electric cars. But i'm sure the oil companies aren't behind it. They probably hate having entire populations under their thumbs, and are anxious to end it all.
 
2013-05-09 12:28:08 PM  

unlikely: It sounds like they've addressed it and added a warranty just in case, but

http://jalopnik.com/5887265/tesla-motors-devastating-design-problem


Ancient article.  You could brick a Roadster if you tried really hard.  You have never been able to brick a Model S.  Even if you run it down and then park it.    Either way, bricking is 100 percent covered by warranty, no questions asked.
 
2013-05-09 12:29:08 PM  

NightOwl2255: FlashHarry: unlikely: Does it still brick the car if you run out of juice?

just like a regular car, you mean?

No, what he is talking about is if you let one compeltely run dead, the entire battey will have to be replaced, not under warranty, for about $30k.


That was in their Roadster. No one has had this problem with the new car yet, just rumor that its the same technology.
 
2013-05-09 12:31:46 PM  
 
2013-05-09 12:33:32 PM  

Hollie Maea: Ancient article. You could brick a Roadster if you tried really hard. You have never been able to brick a Model S. Even if you run it down and then park it. Either way, bricking is 100 percent covered by warranty, no questions asked.


So, not exactly 100% false, huh? I accept your apology.
 
2013-05-09 12:33:40 PM  

NightOwl2255: This was from Feb 2012. Seems like they have made some changes, but, Skippy, it don't make it POA materiel


Speculative FUD article from before the Model S even came out.  It is revealing how strongly you latched onto that article but have not looked into the issue ever since.
 
2013-05-09 12:34:51 PM  

NightOwl2255: So, not exactly 100% false, huh? I accept your apology.


We were talking specifically of the Model S.  You were also talking in the present tense.  So yes, your statement was 100 percent false.
 
2013-05-09 12:36:20 PM  

BHShaman: Innovation often requires Gov. assistance to get its feet off the ground, see: Railroads, Mail Service, Telephony, Internet, Tons of Military and NASA applications, Hospitals, etc.


At what point is its feet off the ground? According to one Farker, Tesla S is the best car ever produced. Shouldn't they be able to stand on their own by now?
 
2013-05-09 12:37:16 PM  

NightOwl2255: Cyberluddite: Whose ass did you pull that out of?

Damn, you have some issues. You make silly statements like Tesla charging stations being "all over the place when in fact, they are in in two states only.

Now, as for my ass. In the case of a Tesla, you apparently can't just do a deep and loving recharge: no battery version of the dent wizard. When the battery bricks, or fully discharges, you replace the battery pack at a cost of around $40,000 ($32,000 plus labor and taxes). It's not covered by the Tesla warranty or car insurance. You can buy a $12,000 replacement policy that would cover a worn out battery but not a dead-from-total-discharge battery while the car is under warranty.
This was from Feb 2012. Seems like they have made some changes, but, Skippy, it don't make it POA materiel.


I don't see any mention of the Model S in that article. Do you have any links that talk about the car Consumer Reports gave a 99/100 to?
 
2013-05-09 12:37:26 PM  

NightOwl2255: Shouldn't they be able to stand on their own by now?


Yes.
 
2013-05-09 12:37:51 PM  

MrSteve007: Silly_Sot: If Tesla is so great, cut off all government funding and subsidies, both direct and indirect. Then, since Tesla is so great, it will support itself.

The one federal government *loan* they got is being repaid, and repaid early - considering it's a *loan,* taxpayers are going to be repaid, with interest.

As for the subsidies, the tax credit currently goes to the *buyers* of any electric vehicle, regardless of brand (I can't speak to any subsudies the company may have received from the state of Cali).

I'll be curious what people will attempt to biatch about when Tesla repays their loan in full. They've already made what most consider to be the best automobile ever built, with the best warranty and depreciation guarantee ever seen for a car - and it just happens to be electric & built entirely by Californians.


The electronics are made by a factory in Idaho
 
2013-05-09 12:39:08 PM  

Cyberluddite: It's doing great--which I'm happy about, as I bought a couple hundred shares a few months ago and the price has gone up about 25% or more since then.


I guess I should've looked at the stock price before I wrote that.  On it's earning announcement, as of right now it's currently up about $15 a share--about 28%--for today alone.
 
2013-05-09 12:39:13 PM  

madgonad: majestic: Even if you can "fill-up" at a supercharger station, who has an entire hour to refuel? I can fuel up my vehicle in 5 minutes and be back on the road. It's always seemed to me that the way to make the EV feasible is to have battery swap out stations. Pull in with a nearly depleted battery and the station attendant swaps it out for a fresh one in under 10 minutes.  The station recharges the used batteries for later swaps.

My thoughts exactly.

I envisioned a modular battery standard - say 10Kw per battery, which would be about the size of a regular car battery. You could stop ANYWHERE, take out you eight batteries and swap them for eight fresh ones, and go. You could even purchase 'extras' to carry with you if you had a legitimate need to go even longer distances at time (or in case of emergency). Each 10Kw battery would be good for a bit over 30 miles of travel in a typical EV.
A convenience store/gas station - heck, even a restaurant, would have a supercharger installed and buy a set of batteries to use as a pool for exchanges. A typical swap might be $1 each. Maybe $2 as a convenience (since it is a convenience thing, not to be used every day).


Great idea. Use the existing BBQ propane tank business as a model.
 
2013-05-09 12:40:50 PM  

Cyberluddite: Cyberluddite: It's doing great--which I'm happy about, as I bought a couple hundred shares a few months ago and the price has gone up about 25% or more since then.

I guess I should've looked at the stock price before I wrote that.  On it's earning announcement, as of right now it's currently up about $15 a share--about 28%--for today alone.


A ton of mouthbreathers shorted the stock at about $24.  Something like 40 percent of the overall shares.  They are just realizing that they farked themselves.  As they stampede the stock will keep going up.

/Wish I had bought a few months ago...
 
2013-05-09 12:40:55 PM  

Hollie Maea: Either way, bricking is 100 percent covered by warranty, no questions asked.


That's new.
It was not that way when the first round of bricks were reported.

That's why I asked.
 
2013-05-09 12:41:22 PM  

NightOwl2255: At what point is its feet off the ground? According to one Farker, Tesla S is the best car ever produced. Shouldn't they be able to stand on their own by now?


Actually, it's Consumer Reports that is saying that - which is the linked article and headline of this thread . . .

And they are standing on their own now. They're repaying their debt to the taxpayer 2x's as fast as they're contractually obligated and making a profit for shareholders.
 
2013-05-09 12:42:33 PM  

madgonad: Migrating Coconut: Meh, call me when they have a hydrogen car that all i have to do is pour water in to fill up.

You do know that water is the stable exhaust product for hydrogen cars, right? No stored energy in it (unless you are talking abour Mr Fusion).


A hydrogen can would spew DHMO? ZOMFG!
 
2013-05-09 12:42:49 PM  

unlikely: That's new.
It was not that way when the first round of bricks were reported.

That's why I asked.


Bricking has NEVER been an issue for the Model S.  So your statement "Does IT still brick" in response to the article about the Model S was wrong.
 
2013-05-09 12:43:36 PM  

NightOwl2255: So, you leave the left coast on a trip across the country. You'll get a little over 100 miles before you need to recharge. Since there is nowhere to recharge, your trip is basically over. But on the upside, you only paid $100k.


So let me get this straight, you paid 100K for a car and can't afford to buy airline tickets to get across the country?
 
2013-05-09 12:43:54 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: NightOwl2255: Shouldn't they be able to stand on their own by now?

Yes.


So should Exxon, but here we are..
 
2013-05-09 12:45:49 PM  
NightOwl2255:  Seems like they have made some changes, but, Skippy, it don't make it POA materiel.

This is the car we're discussing here.

images.thecarconnection.com

This is the car your it-allegedly-happened-one-time-in-the-entire-model-run story was about:

images.thetruthaboutcars.com

Different car, different system, different era, and different warranty.  You might as well talk about how Ford Pinto fuel tanks exploded on contact as proof that the Ford Focus is a firetrap.
 
2013-05-09 12:47:04 PM  

Hollie Maea: NightOwl2255: So, not exactly 100% false, huh? I accept your apology.

We were talking specifically of the Model S.  You were also talking in the present tense.  So yes, your statement was 100 percent false.


The article I linked to way up-thread was on the Roadster. I never said the S would brick.
 
2013-05-09 12:48:26 PM  

Hollie Maea: So your statement "Does IT still brick" in response to the article about the Model S was wrong.


And for most people looking at buying a car, a Tesla is a Tesla. Like a Ford is a Ford.

How much do they pay you to defend the indefensible on obscure boards full of people who could never afford one of their cars anyway?
 
2013-05-09 12:50:27 PM  

The Bestest: J. Frank Parnell: NightOwl2255: Shouldn't they be able to stand on their own by now?

Yes.

So should Exxon, but here we are..


That's more about oil companies having so much political influence. They can have the president tap dance at their child's birthday if they wanted to.
 
2013-05-09 12:50:38 PM  

MrSteve007: Actually, it's Consumer Reports that is saying that - which is the linked article and headline of this thread . . .


Which you then turned into "most are saying".

MrSteve007: And they are standing on their own now. They're repaying their debt to the taxpayer 2x's as fast as they're contractually obligated and making a profit for shareholders.


From the Tesla web site: At the base price of $62,400, including the $7,500 Federal Tax Credit.
 
2013-05-09 12:51:16 PM  

NightOwl2255: Cyberluddite: Whose ass did you pull that out of?

Damn, you have some issues. You make silly statements like Tesla charging stations being "all over the place when in fact, they are in in two states only.

Now, as for my ass. In the case of a Tesla, you apparently can't just do a deep and loving recharge: no battery version of the dent wizard. When the battery bricks, or fully discharges, you replace the battery pack at a cost of around $40,000 ($32,000 plus labor and taxes). It's not covered by the Tesla warranty or car insurance. You can buy a $12,000 replacement policy that would cover a worn out battery but not a dead-from-total-discharge battery while the car is under warranty.
This was from Feb 2012. Seems like they have made some changes, but, Skippy, it don't make it POA materiel.


The Roadster is not a Model S.

Also from February 2012

http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-57384571-76/tesla-you-cant-brick-m od el-s-batteries/

"Model S batteries also have the ability to protect themselves as they approach very low charge levels by going into a 'deep sleep' mode that lowers the loss even further. A Model S will not allow its battery to fall below about 5 percent charge. At that point the car can still sit for many months. Of course you can drive a Model S to 0 percent charge, but even in that circumstance, if you plug it in within 30 days, the battery will recover normally," Tesla said on its Web site today.
 
2013-05-09 12:51:30 PM  

NightOwl2255: I never said the S would brick.


You responded in the affirmative to UNLIKELY, who stated that the Model S would brick.  Your exact words, responding to a statement about the Model S, were:

 if you let one compeltely run dead, the entire battey will have to be replaced, not under warranty, for about $30k.

That's why I said your statement was 100 percent false.  It is also no longer true for the Roadster--a simple software update that turns off all parasitic loads at a certain depth of discharge was all it took to fix the issue.
 
2013-05-09 12:51:40 PM  

NightOwl2255: Hollie Maea: NightOwl2255: So, not exactly 100% false, huh? I accept your apology.
We were talking specifically of the Model S.  You were also talking in the present tense.  So yes, your statement was 100 percent false.
The article I linked to way up-thread was on the Roadster. I never said the S would brick.


NightOwl2255: FlashHarry: unlikely: Does it still brick the car if you run out of juice?
just like a regular car, you mean?
No, what he is talking about is if you let one compeltely run dead, the entire battey will have to be replaced, not under warranty, for about $30k.


One of these posts is not like the other . . .
 
2013-05-09 12:53:01 PM  

unlikely: Like a Ford is a Ford.


So a Ford Focus is at high risk of rollover following blowout, just because a Ford Explorer was once?  Christ that's dumb....
 
2013-05-09 12:53:49 PM  

Silly_Sot: If Tesla is so great, cut off all government funding and subsidies, both direct and indirect. Then, since Tesla is so great, it will support itself.

Do the same for all other forms of automobile and energy, too.

Cut them all off. If we are a capitalist country, then let us practice capitalism--including capitalism for rich people.


Exactly. But we aren't a capitalist country. Haven't been one for 200+ years (when the first regulations started creeping in). Our political-economy is, currently, a mixed economy sub-form of fascism (private means of production w/ state control/oversight) that could be called "democratic interest-group corporate socialism." It favors bigger business interests over smaller ones since the bigger ones have greater lobbying access and bribery abilities.
 
2013-05-09 12:54:54 PM  

unlikely: Hollie Maea: So your statement "Does IT still brick" in response to the article about the Model S was wrong.

And for most people looking at buying a car, a Tesla is a Tesla. Like a Ford is a Ford.


Yeah, MOST people who get a car don't even know the difference between an F-150 and a Focus and a Mustang.
They walk in and are like "Gimme a Ford!" and just take whatever.
That's a lot of DURP even for Fark, congratulations.
 
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