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(Reuters)   Consumer Reports rates the Tesla Model S a 99/100, tied for the highest score they've ever given. Hey, gas companies, can you see the signs?   (reuters.com) divider line 336
    More: Cool, Model S, Consumer Reports, Fisker Karma, plug-in hybrids, luxury vehicles, 6.0, Porsche Panamera, Back to the Future  
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4536 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 May 2013 at 11:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-09 10:32:29 AM
Yeah, the gas companies are trembling.  I'm sure an $80k car that you can drive for three hours and then have to charge for 12 is going to flood the market.  I'm not against electric cars, but the technology is just not there yet.
 
2013-05-09 10:40:23 AM
Don't worry. They'll use all those politicians they own to stifle the technology with regulations and all sorts of bullshiat while lobbying for billions more in welfare. I mean subsidies.
 
2013-05-09 10:40:58 AM

knbber2: Yeah, the gas companies are trembling.  I'm sure an $80k car that you can drive for three hours and then have to charge for 12 is going to flood the market.  I'm not against electric cars, but the technology is just not there yet.


But good for the early adopters - people who buy things like this are helping to pay for the R&D that will make practical vehicles for the rest of us down the road.
 
2013-05-09 10:44:12 AM

knbber2: Yeah, the gas companies are trembling.  I'm sure an $80k car that you can drive for three hours and then have to charge for 12 is going to flood the market.  I'm not against electric cars, but the technology is just not there yet.


They have a range of 250-300 miles depending on the battery and options, and they actually take less than an hour to charge at the (free) roadside Tesla "supercharge" stations that are popping up all over the place, or they'll recharge in your garage overnight at the rate of about 30 miles of range per hour.  They're perfectly useful for everything but cross-country road trips, and even for that if you use the supercharge stations.

I have two friends who have them, and I've driven both their cars. I have to say, though, that the 99/100 score is wrong. I would rate it 100/100. They're the most amazing cars I've driven, and so fast that it's surreal.  I want one, and I'll probably get one in the not-too-distant future.
 
2013-05-09 10:50:23 AM
If you can afford an $80,000 second car I'm very happy for you. Or if your needs make the relatively short range feasible.
 
2013-05-09 10:53:57 AM

Cyberluddite: They have a range of 250-300 miles depending on the battery and options, and they actually take less than an hour to charge at the (free) roadside Tesla "supercharge" stations that are popping up all over the place


If by "all over the place" you mean 9 (almost all in one state) then yeah.
i939.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-09 10:55:33 AM

Aarontology: Don't worry. They'll use all those politicians they own to stifle the technology with regulations and all sorts of bullshiat while lobbying for billions more in welfare. I mean subsidies.


Tesla did receive a small part of its initial capital in an interest-bearing  loan from the Department of Energy--which it's paying back on schedule out of corporate profits, under a program set up by the Bush administration. Otherwise, it's completely privately capitalized. This isn't Fiskar. It's doing great--which I'm happy about, as I bought a couple hundred shares a few months ago and the price has gone up about 25% or more since then.
 
2013-05-09 11:00:50 AM

NightOwl2255: Cyberluddite: They have a range of 250-300 miles depending on the battery and options, and they actually take less than an hour to charge at the (free) roadside Tesla "supercharge" stations that are popping up all over the place

If by "all over the place" you mean 9 (almost all in one state) then yeah.
[i939.photobucket.com image 850x598]


In less than a year, yeah. They'll be nationwide fairly soon.  And there are thousands of other private charging stations (hell, there's even one in the parking garage of my office building at work) all over the place already, which, while not as fast as the supercharge stations, can still be pretty fast and charge only a couple of bucks for a recharge.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-05-09 11:02:21 AM

knbber2: Yeah, the gas companies are trembling.  I'm sure an $80k car that you can drive for three hours and then have to charge for 12 is going to flood the market.  I'm not against electric cars, but the technology is just not there yet.


When it costs a third of that I will get one, but not now.
 
2013-05-09 11:05:08 AM

Cyberluddite: They have a range of 250-300 miles depending on the battery and options


Wow, you really have laid it on. Are you on their payroll?
Tesla says the car can go 300 miles at 55 mph.
 www.teslamotors.com

At 75, with no AC, you would be lucky to get 150 miles. Turn on the AC and I'm guessing it's closer to 125 (or less).

So, you leave the left coast on a trip across the country. You'll get a little over 100 miles before you need to recharge. Since there is nowhere to recharge, your trip is basically over. But on the upside, you only paid $100k.
 
2013-05-09 11:08:21 AM

vpb: knbber2: Yeah, the gas companies are trembling.  I'm sure an $80k car that you can drive for three hours and then have to charge for 12 is going to flood the market.  I'm not against electric cars, but the technology is just not there yet.

When it costs a third of that I will get one, but not now.


Conversely, when $80,000 becomes closer to the average car price. Car prices are blowing the doors off regular inflation.
 
2013-05-09 11:09:29 AM

Cyberluddite: Tesla did receive a small part of its initial capital in an interest-bearing loan from the Department of Energy--which it's paying back on schedule out of corporate profits, under a program set up by the Bush administration. Otherwise, it's completely privately capitalized. This isn't Fiskar. It's doing great--which I'm happy about, as I bought a couple hundred shares a few months ago and the price has gone up about 25% or more since then.


Tesla Motors enjoys massive financial support from the Federal government, as well as various state and local governments: The Department of Energy (DOE) provided Tesla with $465 mln of low-interest loans under its Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing Loan Program, buyers of the Tesla Model S luxury sedan gain $7,500 of Federal tax credits (at an annual cost to taxpayers of $150 mln at 'full output' of 20,000 Model S sedans per year) and state and local government incentives include a $2,500 rebate for Model S buyers in California, sales tax waivers, free parking, free charging and authorized travel in car pool lanes. Electric vehicle charging stations have also been subsidized, with Federal tax credits ranging from 30% of the cost of a home charger, up to a $1,000 tax credit, to $30,000 for the installation of commercial chargers. In addition, government environmental credit schemes forced other auto makers to pay Tesla roughly $108 mln in over the past six months to "offset" the CO2 produced by their gasoline engine-equipped vehicles with credits generated by Model S sales

That gravy train has a caboose. It will end at some point.
 
2013-05-09 11:12:29 AM

knbber2: car that you can drive for three hours


Your daily commute must be hell.
 
2013-05-09 11:12:31 AM

Cyberluddite: Aarontology: Don't worry. They'll use all those politicians they own to stifle the technology with regulations and all sorts of bullshiat while lobbying for billions more in welfare. I mean subsidies.

Tesla did receive a small part of its initial capital in an interest-bearing  loan from the Department of Energy--which it's paying back on schedule out of corporate profits, under a program set up by the Bush administration. Otherwise, it's completely privately capitalized. This isn't Fiskar. It's doing great--which I'm happy about, as I bought a couple hundred shares a few months ago and the price has gone up about 25% or more since then.


I mean the petroleum companies are going to be taking the welfare and attempting to use their influence over government to make Tesla less competitive through enacting red tape and the like.
 
2013-05-09 11:21:00 AM
Does it still brick the car if you run out of juice?
 
2013-05-09 11:23:16 AM
Here is the Consumer Reports video review.

It should be interesting to see how the Model X compares.
 
2013-05-09 11:24:54 AM

unlikely: Does it still brick the car if you run out of juice?


just like a regular car, you mean?
 
2013-05-09 11:30:17 AM

Aarontology: Don't worry. They'll use all those politicians they own to stifle the technology with regulations and all sorts of bullshiat while lobbying for billions more in welfare. I mean subsidies.


Yes, just like coal stiffled the oil industry. Remember that?

NightOwl2255: If by "all over the place" you mean 9 (almost all in one state) then yeah.


There are some kind of chargers here and there in Quebec. I don't have a car so I don't know much about them. Have we (the species) standardized a connector?
 
2013-05-09 11:32:10 AM
Even if you can "fill-up" at a supercharger station, who has an entire hour to refuel? I can fuel up my vehicle in 5 minutes and be back on the road. It's always seemed to me that the way to make the EV feasible is to have battery swap out stations. Pull in with a nearly depleted battery and the station attendant swaps it out for a fresh one in under 10 minutes.  The station recharges the used batteries for later swaps.
 
2013-05-09 11:34:10 AM
Comrade Reports never met a hybrid or cheap car (non-American, of course) they didn't love.
 
2013-05-09 11:34:59 AM
You'd figure they'd come up with a design that looks a little less like a Mazda and more like a Merc or Audi.
 
2013-05-09 11:37:09 AM

FlashHarry: unlikely: Does it still brick the car if you run out of juice?

just like a regular car, you mean?


No, what he is talking about is if you let one compeltely run dead, the entire battey will have to be replaced, not under warranty, for about $30k.
 
2013-05-09 11:37:34 AM
It would meet my wife's work car needs perfectly.

And we live in LA, so the existing recharging stations would work for most trips we take. Except for when we go to Phoenix, so we'd need a recharging station around Blythe.

$80k is a bit much for us though.
 
2013-05-09 11:39:21 AM

JerseyTim: Here is the Consumer Reports video review.

It should be interesting to see how the Model X compares.


I hope that's all true, but I had to wipe my chin off after watching that.
 
2013-05-09 11:40:10 AM

NightOwl2255: No, what he is talking about is if you let one compeltely run dead, the entire battey will have to be replaced, not under warranty, for about $30k


whoa.
 
2013-05-09 11:41:57 AM
 
2013-05-09 11:42:52 AM
In the Bay Area, I see Nissan Leafs all the time, and a Model S at least two or three times a day. Part of the reason is the little white sticker that lets you use the HOV lane. But since most families around here have two cars, it makes perfect sense to have an electric commuter and a gas powered long range cruiser.

Or, you could have only the electric, and the times you need to take a road trip, rent. As gas prices increase, this is a viable financial model.

I also think that plug-in hybrids don't get nearly the love they deserve. Best of both in one car.
 
2013-05-09 11:43:40 AM
Um... I meant two or three times a week. They're not that common. Sorry.
 
2013-05-09 11:44:12 AM

NightOwl2255: No, what he is talking about is if you let one compeltely run dead, the entire battey will have to be replaced, not under warranty, for about $30k.


You need a new talking point. Tesla now has an unlimited, "no fault" battery warranty. Even if an owner deliberately trys to destroy or abuse the battery, they'll replace it for free.
 
2013-05-09 11:44:52 AM

NightOwl2255: Cyberluddite: They have a range of 250-300 miles depending on the battery and options

Wow, you really have laid it on. Are you on their payroll?
Tesla says the car can go 300 miles at 55 mph.
 [www.teslamotors.com image 425x341]

At 75, with no AC, you would be lucky to get 150 miles. Turn on the AC and I'm guessing it's closer to 125 (or less).

So, you leave the left coast on a trip across the country. You'll get a little over 100 miles before you need to recharge. Since there is nowhere to recharge, your trip is basically over. But on the upside, you only paid $100k.


NightOwl2255: Cyberluddite: Tesla did receive a small part of its initial capital in an interest-bearing loan from the Department of Energy--which it's paying back on schedule out of corporate profits, under a program set up by the Bush administration. Otherwise, it's completely privately capitalized. This isn't Fiskar. It's doing great--which I'm happy about, as I bought a couple hundred shares a few months ago and the price has gone up about 25% or more since then.

Tesla Motors enjoys massive financial support from the Federal government, as well as various state and local governments: The Department of Energy (DOE) provided Tesla with $465 mln of low-interest loans under its Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing Loan Program, buyers of the Tesla Model S luxury sedan gain $7,500 of Federal tax credits (at an annual cost to taxpayers of $150 mln at 'full output' of 20,000 Model S sedans per year) and state and local government incentives include a $2,500 rebate for Model S buyers in California, sales tax waivers, free parking, free charging and authorized travel in car pool lanes. Electric vehicle charging stations have also been subsidized, with Federal tax credits ranging from 30% of the cost of a home charger, up to a $1,000 tax credit, to $30,000 for the installation of commercial chargers. In addition, government environmental credit schemes forced other auto makers to pay Tesla roughly $108 mln in over the past six months to "offset" the CO2 produced by their gasoline engine-equipped vehicles with credits generated by Model S sales

That gravy train has a caboose. It will end at some point.


NightOwl2255: FlashHarry: unlikely: Does it still brick the car if you run out of juice?

just like a regular car, you mean?

No, what he is talking about is if you let one compeltely run dead, the entire battey will have to be replaced, not under warranty, for about $30k.


Jesus man, you are trying WAAAY too hard to get people to hate Tesla.  What's your deal man?
 
2013-05-09 11:47:52 AM
I don't feel like doing any real research, so I'm hoping a Farker that knows can help me out.  Does the mileage range stay constant as the car/battery gets older?  Like, when you get a new phone, a full charge seems to last forever.  A year later, you gotta plug that sucker in all the time.  Does the Tesla battery life similarly suffer as it gets older?
 
2013-05-09 11:48:27 AM

MrSteve007: NightOwl2255: No, what he is talking about is if you let one compeltely run dead, the entire battey will have to be replaced, not under warranty, for about $30k.

You need a new talking point. Tesla now has an unlimited, "no fault" battery warranty. Even if an owner deliberately trys to destroy or abuse the battery, they'll replace it for free.


They also put in several more failsafes on the Model S.


Tesla's corporate blog explained the fail-safe provisions of the new model this way: "A Model S will not allow its battery to fall below about 5 percent charge. At that point the car can still sit for many months. Of course you can drive a Model S to 0 percent charge, but even in that circumstance, if you plug it in within 30 days, the battery will recover normally."

Q.How does a fail-safe system work?

A.A fail-safe essentially disconnects the E.V. battery pack from other vehicle systems that drain the battery. When cut off from the rest of the car, the battery will still drain, but it could take a year or more before the battery loses all power.
 
2013-05-09 11:50:07 AM
Meh, call me when they have a hydrogen car that all i have to do is pour water in to fill up.
 
2013-05-09 11:50:31 AM

AntonChigger: Jesus man, you are trying WAAAY too hard to get people to hate Tesla. What's your deal man?


Elon Musk touched him in a bad place when he was a child.
 
2013-05-09 11:51:37 AM

Three Crooked Squirrels: I don't feel like doing any real research, so I'm hoping a Farker that knows can help me out.  Does the mileage range stay constant as the car/battery gets older?  Like, when you get a new phone, a full charge seems to last forever.  A year later, you gotta plug that sucker in all the time.  Does the Tesla battery life similarly suffer as it gets older?


In theory all batteries degrade, but these are supposed to do it much slower. I know the guy that helped develop many batteries but can't say anything about which ones....
 
2013-05-09 11:53:02 AM

Migrating Coconut: Meh, call me when they have a hydrogen car that all i have to do is pour water in to fill up.


Leaving now to buy stock in Big Water companies. Soon they'll be bought out by Exxon and BP and I'll be rich.
 
2013-05-09 11:53:02 AM

majestic: Even if you can "fill-up" at a supercharger station, who has an entire hour to refuel? I can fuel up my vehicle in 5 minutes and be back on the road. It's always seemed to me that the way to make the EV feasible is to have battery swap out stations. Pull in with a nearly depleted battery and the station attendant swaps it out for a fresh one in under 10 minutes.  The station recharges the used batteries for later swaps.


My thoughts exactly.

I envisioned a modular battery standard - say 10Kw per battery, which would be about the size of a regular car battery. You could stop ANYWHERE, take out you eight batteries and swap them for eight fresh ones, and go. You could even purchase 'extras' to carry with you if you had a legitimate need to go even longer distances at time (or in case of emergency). Each 10Kw battery would be good for a bit over 30 miles of travel in a typical EV.
A convenience store/gas station - heck, even a restaurant, would have a supercharger installed and buy a set of batteries to use as a pool for exchanges. A typical swap might be $1 each. Maybe $2 as a convenience (since it is a convenience thing, not to be used every day).
 
2013-05-09 11:53:29 AM

MrSteve007: NightOwl2255: No, what he is talking about is if you let one compeltely run dead, the entire battey will have to be replaced, not under warranty, for about $30k.

You need a new talking point. Tesla now has an unlimited, "no fault" battery warranty. Even if an owner deliberately trys to destroy or abuse the battery, they'll replace it for free.


Calm down. I could not care less about Tesla. I was just repeating a story, that happens to be true.
 
2013-05-09 11:54:30 AM

R.A.Danny: In theory all batteries degrade, but these are supposed to do it much slower.


Thanks!
 
2013-05-09 11:56:41 AM

AntonChigger: Jesus man, you are trying WAAAY too hard to get people to hate Tesla. What's your deal man?


I don't care about Tesla, just like to keep the facts straight. Without sucking the government teat (not the only one, of course) Tesla would not stand a chance. Well, they would have a lot harder row to hoe.
 
2013-05-09 11:57:39 AM

theorellior: AntonChigger: Jesus man, you are trying WAAAY too hard to get people to hate Tesla. What's your deal man?

Elon Musk touched him in a bad place when he was a child.


Damn, you went there fast. Care to share?
 
2013-05-09 11:57:43 AM

NightOwl2255: MrSteve007: NightOwl2255: No, what he is talking about is if you let one compeltely run dead, the entire battey will have to be replaced, not under warranty, for about $30k.

You need a new talking point. Tesla now has an unlimited, "no fault" battery warranty. Even if an owner deliberately trys to destroy or abuse the battery, they'll replace it for free.

Calm down. I could not care less about Tesla. I was just repeating a story, that happens to be true.


Uh, he seems pretty calm to me bro.  You're the one with multiple posts trying to paint Tesla as a piece of shiat.
 
2013-05-09 11:58:08 AM

NightOwl2255: Calm down. I could not care less about Tesla. I was just repeating a story, that happens

used  to be true.

What was true then is not true now. The battery is under warranty for all Tesla cars (retroactively) and it doesn't cost anything for owners to have replaced. And as R.A. Danny pointed out, they wireless delivered a firmware update last year that doesn't allow the battery to go completely dead (unless it's unplugged for over a year).

So essentially, everything you stated is now wrong.
 
2013-05-09 11:58:13 AM

Migrating Coconut: Meh, call me when they have a hydrogen car that all i have to do is pour water in to fill up.


You do know that water is the stable exhaust product for hydrogen cars, right? No stored energy in it (unless you are talking abour Mr Fusion).
 
2013-05-09 11:58:16 AM

NightOwl2255: An uproar recently ignited on automotive blogs over a post about a Tesla Roadster whose battery needed replacement after its owner parked the car, low on charge and unplugged, for more than two months. The battery, which had fully discharged, could not be revived.


it sounds like the manual and whatnot stated that you shouldn't let the battery fully discharge, and yet this guy did just that. which would be like driving your car without oil. in any case, $30k for a battery does seem insane.
 
2013-05-09 11:59:02 AM

NightOwl2255: theorellior: AntonChigger: Jesus man, you are trying WAAAY too hard to get people to hate Tesla. What's your deal man?

Elon Musk touched him in a bad place when he was a child.

Damn, you went there fast. Care to share?


What, you've never used PayPal?
 
2013-05-09 12:00:02 PM
If Tesla is so great, cut off all government funding and subsidies, both direct and indirect. Then, since Tesla is so great, it will support itself.

Do the same for all other forms of automobile and energy, too.

Cut them all off. If we are a capitalist country, then let us practice capitalism--including capitalism for rich people.
 
2013-05-09 12:01:01 PM

R.A.Danny: If you can afford an $80,000 second car I'm very happy for you. Or if your needs make the relatively short range feasible.



The average American commuter spent (in 2011) about 50 minutes on the road. Even if you combine that with around-town errands and/or schlepping the kids to and fro most people's driving needs could be easily met by this car, or it's cheaper brethren in the near future.

I see the typical 2-car family of 2020 having one all-electric and one hybrid.*


*Barring GOP presidencies, asteroid strike, zombie apocalypse, or other horrific disasters.
 
2013-05-09 12:02:32 PM

Silly_Sot: If Tesla is so great, cut off all government funding and subsidies, both direct and indirect. Then, since Tesla is so great, it will support itself.

Do the same for all other forms of automobile and energy, too.

Cut them all off. If we are a capitalist country, then let us practice capitalism--including capitalism for rich people.


You really are silly, those rules are for the little people.
 
2013-05-09 12:02:49 PM

MrSteve007: So essentially, everything you stated is now wrong.


Damn, you do love you some Tesla, don't ya? That's okay. Did the guy's Tesla brick? Yes. Did Tesla refuse to fix it? Yes. Go on with your bad self.
 
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