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(NBC News)   Judge rules Texas cheerleaders can quote Bible verses on banners supporting their team, the Lions. Funny, I didn't think Christians and Lions mixed   (usnews.nbcnews.com) divider line 37
    More: Followup, Southeast Texas, establishment clause, Freedom From Religion Foundation, Liberty Institute, Texas Attorney General, scriptures  
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1659 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 May 2013 at 8:53 AM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-05-09 09:01:13 AM
4 votes:
Even if God does exist, it is presumptuous to assume that he cares about the result of your HS sports. He may even consider that a form of taking his name in vain. If you believe in God, the only thing that may be worth praying about before a game may be to pray that no one gets seriously hurt while you engage in your recreational activity. It would be awesome to file a complaint against these cheerleaders not as an atheist but as someone who fears god's wrath may come down upon everyone at the games because of some sluty blasphemous cheerleaders.
2013-05-09 09:25:07 AM
3 votes:
"State District Judge Steve Thomas determined the Kountze High School cheerleaders' banners are constitutionally permissible. In a copy of the ruling obtained by Beaumont station KFDM, Thomas determined that no law 'prohibits cheerleaders from using religious-themed banners at school sporting events.'"

Hooray for sanity.  As expected. the critics and athiests are responding with their usual conjecture:  "But what if one of those cheerleaders praised a different god?  Would the Christians be tolerant then?  I bet they wouldn't! What would happen if they tried to put a Koran verse?"

You don't know.  When a Muslim, Hindu, Wiccan etc., at that school is told their banner would be verboten but not the Christian's then you would have a point.  Until then you have no argument.  What decent person would have a problem with a cheerleader putting a religious verse on a sports banner?  I'm not religious but why should that bother me?
2013-05-09 10:36:23 AM
2 votes:
www.bartcop.com
2013-05-09 10:31:07 AM
2 votes:

thaylin: DmGdDawg: Oh no! Free people in a free country are publicly expressing a viewpoint others might disagree with! Time for farkers to wring their hands and bash Christians for being closed minded and narrow.

I dont think many have an issue with people "publicly expressing a viewpoint others might disagree with ", but more with the double standard that if it was another religion, or a viewpoint other than what this town likes, they would be chased out of town or worse.


Can you give me an example of an organized Christian group filing a lawsuit to keep atheists or another religious group from exercising free speech? Bear in mind, though, that publicly rejecting or criticizing another viewpoint isn't the same thing as trying to use government to silence it. Maybe there is an example out there, but I can't think of it. I would equally support the right of islamic or atheist cheerleaders to exercise free speech as I would the "Christian" ones. Supporting someone's right to free speech isn't the same thing as agreeing with what they say.
2013-05-09 10:01:34 AM
2 votes:

Shrinkwrap: Let's test it in the field - get a team out there with Quran verses. Nothing ominous, just standard stuff. Let's see how it goes.



www.atheistmemebase.com

It's not even so much a separation of church and state issue for me, personally, as it is simply that claiming that God wants your sports team to win is about the tackiest and pettiest thing ever.  It's embarrassing to have to share the name "Christian" with these self-absorbed simpletons.
2013-05-09 09:26:57 AM
2 votes:
I am an atheist and I honestly don't have a problem with a sign with a bible verse on it, however   "If God is for us, who can be against us"  is not a farking bible verse. I see a big difference.
2013-05-09 08:57:11 AM
2 votes:
Let's test it in the field - get a team out there with Quran verses. Nothing ominous, just standard stuff. Let's see how it goes.
2013-05-09 04:37:57 PM
1 votes:

Deucednuisance: Madbassist1: Sure, but its wider than that. By saying the school can't regulate it because its from the students, they've really stepped in it.

Somehow, I suspect the (I assume) fact the the cheerleaders and those for whom they cheer have the school's name proudly emblazoned upon their outfits and equipment, and that "home" games employ the school's facilities and "away" games have transportation provided by the school and such as will play a role in determining whether or not the school in involved in the communication, upon the inevitable appeal.


And I bet there's some sort of written code of conduct about what cheerleaders can and can't do while wearing their uniforms because they're representing the school.
2013-05-09 04:19:46 PM
1 votes:

ShadowKamui: thaylin: DmGdDawg: thaylin: DmGdDawg: Oh no! Free people in a free country are publicly expressing a viewpoint others might disagree with! Time for farkers to wring their hands and bash Christians for being closed minded and narrow.

I dont think many have an issue with people "publicly expressing a viewpoint others might disagree with ", but more with the double standard that if it was another religion, or a viewpoint other than what this town likes, they would be chased out of town or worse.

Can you give me an example of an organized Christian group filing a lawsuit to keep atheists or another religious group from exercising free speech? Bear in mind, though, that publicly rejecting or criticizing another viewpoint isn't the same thing as trying to use government to silence it. Maybe there is an example out there, but I can't think of it. I would equally support the right of islamic or atheist cheerleaders to exercise free speech as I would the "Christian" ones. Supporting someone's right to free speech isn't the same thing as agreeing with what they say.


Well seeing how I did not sue, but said chased out of town, or worst not seeing your point... However I can do what you request

Such as Christians sueing to stop a mosque

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Center_of_Murfreesboro

And the Mosque opened in 2012 after the courts smacked them down.  So stop getting your panties in a bunch over free speech and save it for the actual hate speech


The fact remains that Christians, whose religion demands them to be loving, helping, accepting, and everything else positive, went against both their own God and their country to attempt to deny another religion from worshiping. You'll never meet a more wretched hive of hypocrisy and hate.

Let's also not forget their continuing treatment of homosexuals, once again in complete opposite defiance of their supposedly all-loving and all-compassionate god.
2013-05-09 03:49:26 PM
1 votes:

freeforever: "State District Judge Steve Thomas determined the Kountze High School cheerleaders' banners are constitutionally permissible. In a copy of the ruling obtained by Beaumont station KFDM, Thomas determined that no law 'prohibits cheerleaders from using religious-themed banners at school sporting events.'"

Hooray for sanity.  As expected. the critics and athiests are responding with their usual conjecture:  "But what if one of those cheerleaders praised a different god?  Would the Christians be tolerant then?  I bet they wouldn't! What would happen if they tried to put a Koran verse?"

You don't know.  When a Muslim, Hindu, Wiccan etc., at that school is told their banner would be verboten but not the Christian's then you would have a point.  Until then you have no argument.  What decent person would have a problem with a cheerleader putting a religious verse on a sports banner?  I'm not religious but why should that bother me?


Taking the Lord God's name in vain, for one.
Expecting an omnipotent almighty deity to support you and you alone to win a sports game, for two.
Violation of separation of church and state, for three.
The hypocrisy of a god who aids high school sports players yet allows starving and diseased people to suffer, for four.
The fact that any other religion or an atheist doing the same thing would have been attacked, for five.
Still believing in fairy tales in 2013, for six.
2013-05-09 03:06:25 PM
1 votes:

thaylin: ShadowKamui: They're just butt hurt atheists that think freedom of religion means freedom from religion, they also happened to have failed basic English. You can make an argument that using the PA system or class room time goes against freedom of religion as that's a limited resource, but there's nothing saying you can't just bring your own pro-islam/hindu/FSM banner

Freedom of religion means that you can follow any religion if you want, as long as it is not using the government to do so. It has nothing to do with "from religion".


As for your second argument, it might be valid if the cheerleaders did not use limited resources of the school to prepare and reach those games.


You're both off the mark. It's an "establishment" violation, not a "freedom" violation.  Google Sante Fe Independent School District v. Doe or scroll up for my link to it.  Briefly, SCOTUS ruled that granting permission to use school resources to proclaim religious messages gives the appearance of school endorsement of religion, and a religion-specific message gives the appearance of endorsement of a specific religion.  Both are forbidden.
2013-05-09 01:58:48 PM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Graffito: BarkingUnicorn: The rules of English do not allow you to add words until you're offended.

Neither do they allow you to twist them to mean whatever it is that you want them to.

I was going to mention that but went for pithiness instead.


I think you misunderstood me.  I think that YOU are the one twisting words to make them mean something other than what they do.  A sign that says, "God is on our side," is clearly saying that God is against the opposing team.  There are a couple of problems with that (separation of church and state issues aside.)
1.  They presume to know which "side" God is on.
2.  It's a rather unwelcoming/unchristian sentiment to display to the guest team.  If I were the school principal I wouldn't want those signs for that reason alone.
2013-05-09 01:25:37 PM
1 votes:

ShadowKamui: Hell maybe he's got one teams QB but the other teams RB in fantasy


Being Omnipotent, he wouldn't wager or play fantasy, since he knows the fix is in.  Seeing as how He is the Fix, and all that.
2013-05-09 12:26:54 PM
1 votes:

ShadowKamui: And the Mosque opened in 2012 after the courts smacked them down.  So stop getting your panties in a bunch over free speech and save it for the actual hate speech


So you are saying that an organized christian group didn't file a lawsuit to keep another religious group from exercising free speech?
2013-05-09 10:54:40 AM
1 votes:

Rwa2play: DmGdDawg: Oh no! Free people in a free country are publicly expressing a viewpoint others might disagree with! Time for farkers to wring their hands and bash Christians for being closed minded and narrow.

Spoken by a Christian who's closed-minded and narrow.


Depends what you mean by closed-minded and narrow. I make no bones about the fact that I believe in the bible exclusively and reject all other religions and doctrine contrary to the bible. I vehemently support anyone's right to believe otherwise, to worship according to the dictates of their conscience, and to speak their mind freely without government threats or coercion. My freedom is safe from tyranny only if everyone else's is, too.
2013-05-09 10:39:39 AM
1 votes:
pbs.twimg.com.
2013-05-09 10:31:15 AM
1 votes:
Came for the cheerleader thread.
Leaving disappointed.
2013-05-09 10:27:40 AM
1 votes:

thaylin: BarkingUnicorn: thaylin: I got "we're great" from my mind, and I never claimed it was on a banner.  You got your banner from your ass.  "If God is for us, who can be against us" is the only example in TFA.  Doesn't say God isn't on the other side.  Doesn't say, "you can't beat us."  It just asks a rhetorical question of no one in particular.

You are obviously bad at extrapolating meanings of phrases....

"if god is on our side" = god is with us, not yours
"who can be against us" = if god is on our side you cant beat us.

I'm proud to be bad at making shiat up.

So you are saying the phrase has no meaning... I think you should be less proud of not comprehending basic English.


Well, it is the product of high school cheerleaders.

The rules of English do not allow you to add words until you're offended.
2013-05-09 09:55:44 AM
1 votes:
I'm fairly certain the lord and master of the universe doesn't give a shiat about your damn game, so stop bothering him about it.
2013-05-09 09:45:50 AM
1 votes:

thaylin: BarkingUnicorn: thaylin: BarkingUnicorn: Walker: FirstNationalBastard: naughtyrev: Can opposing teams have banners that proclaim other gods are for them?

I'd rather see the Atheist cheerleaders with a banner saying "We believe in ourselves, not fairy tales"

Yeah, I'm sure those would immediately be banned.

Yes, because they would be digs at believers.

"Zeus/Jesus is on our side" is a simple boast not intended to denigrate anyone.  "FSM is on our side" is denigrating because FSM was invented to denigrate.

And theirs are digs at non believers and even other believers, so whats the point.

"We're great!" isn't "You're awful."  Unless you are terribly insecure.

Where do you get "we're great" from? Their banner is "god is on our side, not yours, therefore you cannot beat us"


I got "we're great" from my mind, and I never claimed it was on a banner.  You got your banner from your ass.  "If God is for us, who can be against us" is the only example in TFA.  Doesn't say God isn't on the other side.  Doesn't say, "you can't beat us."  It just asks a rhetorical question of no one in particular.
2013-05-09 09:44:09 AM
1 votes:
img.gawkerassets.com

lol!
2013-05-09 09:39:14 AM
1 votes:
sojo.net

/do I have to do everything around here?
2013-05-09 09:33:34 AM
1 votes:
Don't forget thor --

208.116.9.205
2013-05-09 09:27:52 AM
1 votes:

thaylin: BarkingUnicorn: Walker: FirstNationalBastard: naughtyrev: Can opposing teams have banners that proclaim other gods are for them?

I'd rather see the Atheist cheerleaders with a banner saying "We believe in ourselves, not fairy tales"

Yeah, I'm sure those would immediately be banned.

Yes, because they would be digs at believers.

"Zeus/Jesus is on our side" is a simple boast not intended to denigrate anyone.  "FSM is on our side" is denigrating because FSM was invented to denigrate.

And theirs are digs at non believers and even other believers, so whats the point.


"We're great!" isn't "You're awful."  Unless you are terribly insecure.
2013-05-09 09:27:15 AM
1 votes:
It's a cookbook.

1.bp.blogspot.com
2013-05-09 09:25:58 AM
1 votes:

hutchkc: I'm a little torn on that decision.  Part of me agrees that the school isn't involved as it's the cheerleaders aren't  proselytizing on the schools behalf. While the other part of me goes that football team and cheerleaders are representatives of the school so should abide by the same rules.

I'm kinda with Shrinkwrap, put this on a banner "اذا كان الله هو بالنسبة لنا، والذين يمكن أن يكونوا ضدنا " and see how well it goes over.


Santa Fe ISD v. Doe may heal your tear. Students using school PA system to make religious rah-hah before football games.  Cheerleaders using school football field to make religious rah-hah at football games.  In both cases, permission to use the school's facilities for religious rah-hah would reasonably be taken by others as school's endorsement.
2013-05-09 09:19:55 AM
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: Walker: FirstNationalBastard: naughtyrev: Can opposing teams have banners that proclaim other gods are for them?

I'd rather see the Atheist cheerleaders with a banner saying "We believe in ourselves, not fairy tales"

Yeah, I'm sure those would immediately be banned.

Yes, because they would be digs at believers.

"Zeus/Jesus is on our side" is a simple boast not intended to denigrate anyone.  "FSM is on our side" is denigrating because FSM was invented to denigrate.


And theirs are digs at non believers and even other believers, so whats the point.
2013-05-09 09:16:20 AM
1 votes:
That makes the record of the "oppressed" Christians approximately 1,765 - 2.

I'm counting the two losses as no teacher-led prayer in schools and killing Jesus. There may be more on your scorecard.
2013-05-09 09:11:39 AM
1 votes:
I'm a little torn on that decision.  Part of me agrees that the school isn't involved as it's the cheerleaders aren't  proselytizing on the schools behalf. While the other part of me goes that football team and cheerleaders are representatives of the school so should abide by the same rules.

I'm kinda with Shrinkwrap, put this on a banner "اذا كان الله هو بالنسبة لنا، والذين يمكن أن يكونوا ضدنا " and see how well it goes over.
2013-05-09 09:09:10 AM
1 votes:

TabASlotB: Deuteronomy 23:1 "No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord."
\o/
|
/\


healthyliving.azcentral.com
"There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses!"
2013-05-09 09:08:20 AM
1 votes:
"If God is for us, who can be against us?"

This is just stupid. Who told them that God was for them? Does He have money on the game?

And who IS God's bookie?
2013-05-09 09:04:18 AM
1 votes:
Your tears, I drink them up.
2013-05-09 09:02:00 AM
1 votes:
Just remember free speech can work both ways.

Who can help us
Satan can
If he can't do it
Nobody can
2013-05-09 09:01:12 AM
1 votes:
"DESTROY THE INFIDEL OPPOSING TEAM INSHALLAH, THERE ARE NO OTHERS BUT ALLAH. ALLAHU ACKBAR!!!"


/hope my kids school allow religious signs at sports games one day.
//"DEFEAT THAT TEAM AND THEN CUT OFF THE FORESKINS OF THEIR COACH AND TEAM CAPTAINS AND PRESENT THEM TO YOUR COACH AND PRINCIPLE FOR THE LORD YOUR GOD COMMANDS IT."
2013-05-09 09:00:31 AM
1 votes:
Deuteronomy 23:1 "No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord."
\o/
|
/\

2013-05-09 08:58:00 AM
1 votes:
Oh, the lulz that would result if someone dared to show up at one of those games carrying a banner praising any other god or gods. The Christians would probably claim that their own 1stA rights were being violated if anyone did such a thing.
2013-05-09 08:27:54 AM
1 votes:
Can opposing teams have banners that proclaim other gods are for them?
 
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