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(Washington Post)   "You fall in the damn water and you're wearing water-colored camouflage. What the hell is that?"   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 82
    More: Asinine, James Amos, U.S., damn water, USS Constitution, Evan Bayh, U.S. military, enlisted man, Internet forum  
•       •       •

11257 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 May 2013 at 8:18 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-09 02:53:51 AM  
Our armed forces squabbling over fashions like a bunch of high school girls.  Now that's embarrassing.
 
2013-05-09 06:02:15 AM  
"We objected to that. We just said, 'Look, there are plenty of patterns that are out there that are effective,' " said Gen. James F. Amos, the commandant of the Marine Corps, recounting that complaint during a Senate hearing in 2010. The reason was not battlefield safety, it was Marine pride.
"Even though [the Navy] is not using the patented pattern, I guess that it's so very, very close," Amos said. "It's a point of pride, sir. It's internal pride."



The few.  The fabulous.
 
2013-05-09 08:13:02 AM  
My understanding is that a lot of this started with the USMC patenting their cammo pattern and then refusing to let anyone else use it.  With that said, Army ACU blends in with nothing but 70s furniture, and the Navy blue digital is laughable.  I did some field training with Navy in their blue cammo - was hilarious watching them be all "stealthy" in the woods.

/Just go with the multi-cam and be done with it
 
2013-05-09 08:15:19 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: Our armed forces squabbling over fashions like a bunch of high school girls.  Now that's embarrassing.


That blue abomination has been out for years and I have done everything I can to never wear it.

But on some levels it is effective camoflage; not only does it hide you in the ocean if you fall overboard, it also hides the rank insignia quite well so you can't tell if you're coming up on an E4 or an O6!
 
2013-05-09 08:23:07 AM  
I had always thought the blue camo was stupid, but hadn't even thought about the drowning-related issues. It more just seemed pointless on land bases.
 
2013-05-09 08:25:52 AM  

doyner: it also hides the rank insignia quite well so you can't tell if you're coming up on an E4 or an O6!


 VERY true!!  I already have to deal with petty officers wearing those damned birds that look like O-6 wings, even worse when they cammo the damned insignia.  I accidentally saluted many of petty officers when I was stationed at Bethesda.
 
2013-05-09 08:28:45 AM  
I read TFA and realized that all the other problems in the military must be solved.
 
2013-05-09 08:28:59 AM  
What the hell is that?

Don't ask.
 
2013-05-09 08:28:59 AM  
The airforce wasted a chit load of money on the new digital ABU pattern.  As soon as you go down range they issue you the desert or ACU design the Army uses.

/insert whatever our slogan is this month
 
2013-05-09 08:29:20 AM  
I wear geek camoflage.
 
2013-05-09 08:30:31 AM  
The rest of the Navy personnel who might serve in the desert


There's your problem right there.
 
2013-05-09 08:30:41 AM  
Oh boy.

I can't wait to see Major Major's reaction to this article.
 
2013-05-09 08:30:52 AM  
clicktempus.com
Coming soon to a Naval Base near you.
 
2013-05-09 08:32:53 AM  

CPT Ethanolic: doyner: it also hides the rank insignia quite well so you can't tell if you're coming up on an E4 or an O6!

 VERY true!!  I already have to deal with petty officers wearing those damned birds that look like O-6 wings, even worse when they cammo the damned insignia.  I accidentally saluted many of petty officers when I was stationed at Bethesda.


A couple months ago I got a terse response from a captain when I stepped out of a building into bright sunlight as he was walking down the sidewalk.  Apparently it took too long to recognize his paygrade as I looked towards the sun to see the insignia on his blueberry hat.

There is one good thing about the uniform though.  When sailors paint, it hides inadvertant drips of white and grey quite well.
 
2013-05-09 08:33:40 AM  

YixilTesiphon: I had always thought the blue camo was stupid, but hadn't even thought about the drowning-related issues. It more just seemed pointless on land bases.


Agrees.
bluraymedia.ign.com
 
2013-05-09 08:34:11 AM  

Rapmaster2000: [clicktempus.com image 500x461]
Coming soon to a Naval Base near you.


Those are all preferable to the NWUs IMO.
 
2013-05-09 08:37:05 AM  
What's with the squares? I never got that. Is it just a fashion thing, or is there some science behind human sight that makes geometric shapes better at camouflaging? I'd have guessed that the more natural, old organic shapes would be harder to spot against a wild environment.
 
2013-05-09 08:38:21 AM  

CPT Ethanolic: My understanding is that a lot of this started with the USMC patenting their cammo pattern and then refusing to let anyone else use it.  With that said, Army ACU blends in with nothing but 70s furniture, and the Navy blue digital is laughable.  I did some field training with Navy in their blue cammo - was hilarious watching them be all "stealthy" in the woods.

/Just go with the multi-cam and be done with it


Why "just go" with a pattern that is less effective in the field?  Don't we want our people to have what works the best?  When the Army had to come out and admit that the current pattern didn't actually work anywhere, the general in charge of testing admitted that Marpat was the best out of everything they tested, including Multicam.  The Army wanted to use the pattern, but the Marines pretty much told them to fark off.  They should take out the EGA and let everyone use it.  I'd rather have my wife wearing the most effective pattern out there rather than some second rate one because the Marine Corps is being a bunch of little biatches about it.  The Marines will still have the distinctive covers, and they could always go back to rolling their sleeves when in garrison (one of the more minor items on the list of incredibly stupid decisions made by the current commandant, most of the Marines I know can't wait until he's gone.)
 
2013-05-09 08:38:47 AM  
Those blue camo uniforms are more of a problem for sailors ashore than at sea. During the morning rush hour on Navy bases, it's usually either dark or twilight, and we have herds of sailors crossing the streets in dim lighting wearing pattern-disruptive clothing. Add in the fact that everyone driving at that hour is tired, distracted, or in a big hurry- on top of the general poor road sign and lighting maintenance due to inadequate funding- and you end up with a lot of car-pedestrian collisions on Navy installations.
 
2013-05-09 08:42:17 AM  

YixilTesiphon: I had always thought the blue camo was stupid, but hadn't even thought about the drowning-related issues. It more just seemed pointless on land bases.


What was the problem with the old blue work uniform again?  You know, the one that has been around since the 30s?  I mean, they got rid of the jeans back in the 90s, which probably wasn't a terrible thing, those things seemed designed to make a Navy chick's ass look either slamming, or 900 feet wide.  But seriously, what was the logic behind the blue cammies?
 
2013-05-09 08:43:01 AM  
Could be worse.  You could be a Redskins fan surrounded by these knuckleheads.
lh3.ggpht.com
 
2013-05-09 08:43:34 AM  

Tommy Moo: What's with the squares? I never got that. Is it just a fashion thing, or is there some science behind human sight that makes geometric shapes better at camouflaging? I'd have guessed that the more natural, old organic shapes would be harder to spot against a wild environment.


There was a kind of sciency idea:  http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/07/camo u flage_problems_in_the_army_the_ucp_and_the_future_of_digital_camo_.htm l
 
2013-05-09 08:44:34 AM  

devildog123: But seriously, what was the logic behind the blue cammies?


The other services have new clothes, therefore we need new clothes.  Seriously.
 
2013-05-09 08:48:56 AM  

pag1107: Could be worse.  You could be a Redskins fan surrounded by these knuckleheads.
[lh3.ggpht.com image 540x714]


Hey, many good soldiers died wearing those pants.  The Unicorn Wars should never be forgotten.
 
2013-05-09 08:49:56 AM  
I didn't see this coming.
 
2013-05-09 08:51:27 AM  
USAF needs to do a digitized camo uniform with the fabric from cubicle walls.

/retired usaf
//slashies
 
2013-05-09 08:51:56 AM  
FTFA: President Obama and congressional Republicans say they're trying to prune back decades of redundant programs. Obama, for example, is seeking to kill or consolidate more than 100 of those science and math programs.

Why does Obama hate science and math?
 
2013-05-09 08:52:22 AM  

doyner: devildog123: But seriously, what was the logic behind the blue cammies?

The other services have new clothes, therefore we need new clothes.  Seriously.


Maybe the Navy can be talked into going retro and bring back the denim blues of WWII.  You know, the Jay Leno look.
 
2013-05-09 08:52:29 AM  

doyner: devildog123: But seriously, what was the logic behind the blue cammies?

The other services have new clothes, therefore we need new clothes.  Seriously.


As an old Navy guy, I can inform you that we were always hearing that we were going to get camo and we were looking forward to it. The standard dungarees were not comfortable and made us look a lot like inmates.
 
2013-05-09 08:54:32 AM  
The takeaway:

Navy wants their service members to drown.
Army wastes money like crazy.
No one cares how the Air Force dress, they aren't fighting.
Marines are selfish idiots.

So... old news?
 
2013-05-09 08:56:14 AM  
Only the USAF would spend a crap load of money coming up with fancy new cammie jammies, then make everyone wear reflective belts.
 
2013-05-09 08:56:41 AM  
Pretty sure the Navy ones turn orange when submerged in ocean water
 
2013-05-09 08:56:43 AM  

GameSprocket: doyner: devildog123: But seriously, what was the logic behind the blue cammies?

The other services have new clothes, therefore we need new clothes.  Seriously.

As an old Navy guy, I can inform you that we were always hearing that we were going to get camo and we were looking forward to it. The standard dungarees were not comfortable and made us look a lot like inmates.


Ok.  And?

I understand the disdain for dungarees.  The answer, however, is not something even worse.  What is wrong with a common cammo uniform for the entire Department of the Navy?
 
2013-05-09 09:06:21 AM  
ah, yes.  Wearing the latest in Air Force chic, thinking you're so cool, then realizing you're out by the perimeter fence, at night, wearing a reflective belt that shines like the surface of the sun.  Then you wonder...
 
2013-05-09 09:19:43 AM  

doyner: GameSprocket: doyner: devildog123: But seriously, what was the logic behind the blue cammies?

The other services have new clothes, therefore we need new clothes.  Seriously.

As an old Navy guy, I can inform you that we were always hearing that we were going to get camo and we were looking forward to it. The standard dungarees were not comfortable and made us look a lot like inmates.

Ok.  And?

I understand the disdain for dungarees.  The answer, however, is not something even worse.  What is wrong with a common cammo uniform for the entire Department of the Navy?


The various branches have always been able to design their own uniforms. Uniforms are a part of unit cohesion and identification. Honestly, I am not sure why anyone even cares about this in an area of airplanes that cast $130 million each. How much does it cost to design a new uniform?
 
2013-05-09 09:29:22 AM  

autopsybeverage: Oh boy.

I can't wait to see Major Major's reaction to this article.


He has to clear it with ex-PFC Wintergreen.
 
2013-05-09 09:32:07 AM  

roddack: Pretty sure the Navy ones turn orange when submerged in ocean water


I've heard this rumor also but can anyone confirm they've seen it happen?
 
2013-05-09 09:32:27 AM  

autopsybeverage: Oh boy.

I can't wait to see Major Major's reaction to this article.


Might seriously hold up today's parade.
 
2013-05-09 09:35:47 AM  
Are armed forces branches really allowed to patent things like camo patterns? Why isn't there some activist judge willing to tell the USMC patent troll to kick rocks? Can't Obama just lay out the camo ban hammer on the shiatty patterns and give the USMC direct orders to share their farking camo?

Of course this all started happening in 2002. Every duplicate camo program is GWB directly sucking cash money out of your pockets.
 
2013-05-09 09:41:50 AM  

doyner: BarkingUnicorn: Our armed forces squabbling over fashions like a bunch of high school girls.  Now that's embarrassing.

That blue abomination has been out for years and I have done everything I can to never wear it.

But on some levels it is effective camoflage; not only does it hide you in the ocean if you fall overboard, it also hides the rank insignia quite well so you can't tell if you're coming up on an E4 or an O6!


184.172.144.130
What water-colored camouflage might look like.
 
2013-05-09 09:49:16 AM  
I've shot a lot of deer while wearing the old Army woodland camo, mostly because my Uncle Sam let me out with it. These days, I wear Realtree or Mossy Oak because it works pretty good in the environment where I use it. That is the key. There isn't going to be a universal pattern. In the trees, you want to look like a tree. In the grass, you want to look like grass. In the sand, you want to look like sand. In the ocean, you want to look like someone who needs to be rescued.

My complaint with current uniforms is the backwards flag patch. The official U.S. flag has a field of 50 stars in the upper left corner. Some officer looking for a decision to make decided to reverse it for some invented reason. I get annoyed every time I see one with the field of stars in the upper right.
cdn.trendhunterstatic.com
 
2013-05-09 09:50:36 AM  

devildog123: go back to rolling their sleeves


They can't roll their sleeves anymore? Are they pushing them up camo out like the Army used to do?
 
2013-05-09 10:08:11 AM  
NoGods:
My complaint with current uniforms is the backwards flag patch. The official U.S. flag has a field of 50 stars in the upper left corner. Some officer looking for a decision to make decided to reverse it for some invented reason. I get annoyed every time I see one with the field of stars in the upper right.
[cdn.trendhunterstatic.com image 265x396]


4/10.  You'll get bites.
 
2013-05-09 10:14:12 AM  

NoGods: My complaint with current uniforms is the backwards flag patch. The official U.S. flag has a field of 50 stars in the upper left corner. Some officer looking for a decision to make decided to reverse it for some invented reason. I get annoyed every time I see one with the field of stars in the upper right.


  The rational for the reversed flag is that it should appear that the soldier is marching forward, not retreating.
 
2013-05-09 10:21:09 AM  
CPT Ethanolic:   The rational for the reversed flag is that it should appear that the soldier is marching forward, not retreating.

Enemy Officer: "Are the Americans retreating?"
Enemy Forward Observer: "How can I tell?"
Enemy Officer: "Look at their flag patches!"
Enemy Forward Observer: "They are NOT RETREATING!"
Enemy Officer: "Well then we probably should."

Wow. Backwards Flag Officer should get a medal for all the times that has happened.
 
2013-05-09 10:22:55 AM  

NoGods: I've shot a lot of deer while wearing the old Army woodland camo, mostly because my Uncle Sam let me out with it. These days, I wear Realtree or Mossy Oak because it works pretty good in the environment where I use it. That is the key. There isn't going to be a universal pattern. In the trees, you want to look like a tree. In the grass, you want to look like grass. In the sand, you want to look like sand. In the ocean, you want to look like someone who needs to be rescued.

My complaint with current uniforms is the backwards flag patch. The official U.S. flag has a field of 50 stars in the upper left corner. Some officer looking for a decision to make decided to reverse it for some invented reason. I get annoyed every time I see one with the field of stars in the upper right.
[cdn.trendhunterstatic.com image 265x396]


This is all very Marine Core.
 
2013-05-09 10:23:41 AM  

NoGods: Enemy Officer: "Are the Americans retreating?"
Enemy Forward Observer: "How can I tell?"
Enemy Officer: "Look at their flag patches!"
Enemy Forward Observer: "They are NOT RETREATING!"
Enemy Officer: "Well then we probably should."

Wow. Backwards Flag Officer should get a medal for all the times that has happened.


  Just telling you the rational for the design.  You can make your own judgements.
 
2013-05-09 10:27:05 AM  

GlobalStrategic MapleSyrup Reserve: This is all very Marine Core.


I was in the Army.

/knows the joke
 
2013-05-09 10:27:34 AM  
NoGods:My complaint with current uniforms is the backwards flag patch. The official U.S. flag has a field of 50 stars in the upper left corner. Some officer looking for a decision to make decided to reverse it for some invented reason. I get annoyed every time I see one with the field of stars in the upper right.
[cdn.trendhunterstatic.com image 265x396]


The blue field on the official US flag changes directions based on which way the wind blows.  Flag decals and patches are supposed to be placed so that the blue field points in the direction of travel, as if the flag were attached to a pole and was blowing in the wind.  A flag patch on the right shoulder should have the blue field on the right.
 
2013-05-09 10:38:04 AM  
We are headed back to GTMO in the near future. We were told we would be given the multicams, but since nobody has any damn money, it looks like we are sticking with the ACUs. Also, with that, the Army has 4 uniforms: ACUs, multicams, APFU (soon to change) and dress blues. Although, a lot of Soldiers still have the green Class A uniforms. during my last deployment to GTMO, I spoke with some sailors and learned that the Navy boasts 10-11 different unifiorms.

/The ACUs work great in gravel, by the way.
//We are supposed to be getting the blues (Army Service Uniform) issued soon.
///Which is good, because I need to get an updated DA photo.
 
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