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(Kotaku)   1.3 million parents' basements vacated between February and May   (kotaku.com) divider line 63
    More: Obvious, Activision-Blizzard, The Old Republic, basements, MMORPG  
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4247 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 May 2013 at 7:47 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-09 07:29:21 AM  
In a related story, reported cases of heliophobia have jumped 37% in the last three months.
 
2013-05-09 07:50:08 AM  
The monthly fees on Real Life are a biatch, but the EULA is far less draconian.
 
2013-05-09 07:58:56 AM  

UNC_Samurai: The monthly fees on Real Life are a biatch, but the EULA is far less draconian.


What a Draconian EULA might look like.
www.blogcdn.com
 
2013-05-09 08:00:06 AM  
where'd they move to?  homeless shelters?  that's where my mom planned to kick me out if i continued to smoke dope
 
2013-05-09 08:03:16 AM  
It's still a great game - a great experience for those who enjoy the RPG thing. Even with the non-vanilla add-ons it's a lot of fun and the world should be thankful to Blizzard for pushing the idea so far. I can't wait to see what Blizzard has coming next.
 
2013-05-09 08:12:08 AM  
I wonder how many of it is from credit cards that expired. The person stopped playing an year or two ago but they just kept on paying.
 
2013-05-09 08:30:55 AM  
Oddly enough, I started playing Diablo 3 again. They changed it a lot and it is kind of addictive. Honestly, it doesn't give much of a challenge, but it is kind of fun watching everything blow up. It is like a video game version of popping bubble-wrap if the bubble-wrap had prizes.
 
2013-05-09 08:31:52 AM  
I never played WOW, but I did get caught up in this free online boxing simulation game.  It was fun for a while and I was getting pretty good at it.  Just after a while it became more like a chore than fun and I decided to quit playing.  Instead of fun it became stressful.  Considering the dedication WOW requires to be successful, I could see people leaving because of that.

I did make some real life friendships I still have today through the boxing game, so in that sense it was worth playing.
 
2013-05-09 08:43:05 AM  
Good.  I say that not because I dislike World of Warcraft (I'm ambivalent about it) but because WoW's subscriber figures and other companies desperate emulate them has all but killed the MMO genre for a lot of people.

I'm glad it's subscriber base is falling because other companies have repeatedly demonstrated they are too retarded to understand what "statistical outlier" means.  WoW will continue to fall until it hits around the 1 million - 500k mark (where every other MMO lands in other words) and bob along at that point; that's assuming Activision don't pull the plug on it long before it reaches that point as not being profitable enough.
 
2013-05-09 08:44:27 AM  

quickdraw: UNC_Samurai: The monthly fees on Real Life are a biatch, but the EULA is far less draconian.

What a Draconian EULA might look like.
[www.blogcdn.com image 580x314]


What a Draconis EULA might look like

www.sarna.net
 
2013-05-09 08:57:17 AM  
The problem is that it is not alt-friendly. Some would argue it is not casual friendly either, the difficulty is not hard, but you dont make any meaningful progress anymore as  a 1hr a day casual anymore like you did in wrath/cata because they took the ability to gain reputation through dungeons, leaving you with dailies as your only source of reputation, and then locked all the meaningful purchasable gear behind that reputation gate.

For those that play about 2-hrs a day or raid -- the game is fine. For those that play 1-hr a day or less, the game is more akin to Sisyphus and his rock.
 
2013-05-09 09:03:08 AM  

Vaneshi: Good.  I say that not because I dislike World of Warcraft (I'm ambivalent about it) but because WoW's subscriber figures and other companies desperate emulate them has all but killed the MMO genre for a lot of people.

I'm glad it's subscriber base is falling because other companies have repeatedly demonstrated they are too retarded to understand what "statistical outlier" means.  WoW will continue to fall until it hits around the 1 million - 500k mark (where every other MMO lands in other words) and bob along at that point; that's assuming Activision don't pull the plug on it long before it reaches that point as not being profitable enough.


I disagree, the idle mark will probably be substantially higher, in the 2 million range, for a long time.

The upswell in popularity was because they tapped into the 'casual' market so strongly. Your arthritic granny and inbred 7 year old cousin could play and raid all but the top tier content effortlessly.

It also came from some hinky reporting over eastern subscription numbers, since they used a pay as you go system and counted any account ever made as active.
 
2013-05-09 09:10:59 AM  

UNC_Samurai: [www.sarna.net image 280x470]


You went there didn't you?  You really went there... fine.

www.sarna.net

Dirty damn Drac.
 
2013-05-09 09:19:57 AM  
I unsubbed after Isle of Thunder came out. My boredom with WoW finally dawned on me as I was grinding for the warlock green fire quest item. Now enjoying Dark Souls instead.
 
2013-05-09 09:20:16 AM  

kroonermanblack: I disagree, the idle mark will probably be substantially higher, in the 2 million range, for a long time.


Possibly.  Although I wonder exactly how many news stories will have from the likes of Koataku about the quater on quater drops (and then stories about the changing in deltas between the drops and such) whilst it trundles down to it's idle figure.

I'm also not totally convinced Activision won't EOL it long before it reaches that figure.
 
2013-05-09 09:21:08 AM  
In other news Star Citizen has raised over $9mil from crowd sourcing. They've been deliberately staying away from the word MMO.
 
2013-05-09 09:29:59 AM  

The_EliteOne: In other news Star Citizen has raised over $9mil from crowd sourcing. They've been deliberately staying away from the word MMO.


Possibly because every game that has had "MMO" attached to it has offered either a reskinning of WoW and little else or being a generally watered down experience.

Take Neverwinter for example.  It was going to be, in essence, a modernised toolkit as came with the old Neverwinter Nights game and ship with some default modules.  It'd use a D20 ruleset and allow complete editing of the setting and items as you wanted (you could go SciFi with laser guns instead of crossbows, etc.).   Then it got MMO slapped on it and has become rather an average actiony MMO from what I've seen.

I know which one of those two I'd have gladly handed cash over for and really it isn't the "MMO" one.
 
2013-05-09 09:37:03 AM  

Dinobot: The problem is that it is not alt-friendly. Some would argue it is not casual friendly either, the difficulty is not hard, but you dont make any meaningful progress anymore as  a 1hr a day casual anymore like you did in wrath/cata because they took the ability to gain reputation through dungeons, leaving you with dailies as your only source of reputation, and then locked all the meaningful purchasable gear behind that reputation gate.

For those that play about 2-hrs a day or raid -- the game is fine. For those that play 1-hr a day or less, the game is more akin to Sisyphus and his rock.


Didn't know that. I left 2 months into Cata. Casualize the game, lose people...casualize the game even more, lose more subscribers. It became a 3D Facebook where you never had to leave Stormwind except to daily.
 
2013-05-09 09:44:59 AM  

Fade2black: Didn't know that. I left 2 months into Cata. Casualize the game, lose people...casualize the game even more, lose more subscribers. It became a 3D Facebook where you never had to leave Stormwind except to daily.


The are tons of things to do around the world, if you want to. Still, the biggest problem was, and still is, all the valor gear hidden behind reputation, which can only be accrued by doing dailies from all the different factions -- oh yeah, some factions can only be opened after you reach revered/exalted with a different set of factions.

It's not a problem anymore as the gear they sell is outdated by now. But at the beginning, it caused a big chunk of my guild to say "Fark it!"
 
2013-05-09 10:08:18 AM  
I dunno, I feel like WoW still has quite a bit of time left in it, especially if they can manage to update the player character models in a timely fashion. The art-style of WoW allows them to keep going with lowered system specs for a long time, whereas trying to be hyper-detailed and realistic would make them look outdated ever faster than they do now. Yes, WoW looks like a high-end PS2 game, but the PS2 had some really nice looking games on it.

They, however, are never going to hit that high mark again. The high mark in subscribers was around and just after Wrath of the Lich King. This was the ending chapter to the story started way back in Warcraft III, and was an important milestone for a LOT of people. I imagine just the prospect of defeating Arthas brought a lot of people in, and Deathwing was sort of a crappy villain in comparison. (We hadn't heard anything from Deathwing aside from a campaign mission back in Warcraft II, and suddenly he's destroying Azeroth?)

I think Mists of Pandaria has just about the best questing experience that WoW has had in a long time, but yes, the rep-gated Valor gear was a real pain. Rep-gated reputations were even worse, but they're getting rid of those restrictions at least.
 
2013-05-09 10:11:21 AM  
Blizzard:  Have the Elite MMORPG out there.

Then make all the quests soloable?

/Call me when you make a game where you can use any build effectively, not have raids determined by DPS, don't need 3rd party add-ons to raid, get rid of the DPS/Heal/Tank 'holy trinity' ,don;t have to worry about BIS gear, and allow me to play a melee mage.
 
2013-05-09 10:29:47 AM  

FoxKelfonne: They, however, are never going to hit that high mark again. The high mark in subscribers was around and just after Wrath of the Lich King. This was the ending chapter to the story started way back in Warcraft III, and was an important milestone for a LOT of people. I imagine just the prospect of defeating Arthas brought a lot of people in, and Deathwing was sort of a crappy villain in comparison.


I left once pug raids were able to accomplish things that should take an organized raiding guild to do. Yes it locked away content from a lot of players but that was the beauty of it. When you took down the biggest and baddest raids and had the gear to prove it you felt like a god, and people noticed. Once they made the raids stupid easy I was paying a monthly fee to play a regular video game.

Before that I was paying a monthly fee for a game that forced me and 49 (or 24) other people to work as a team and communicate. We spent time making the right meals, gathering materials for the best enchantments for our guild mates etc. The whole guild worked as a team to produce results. That was worth a monthly fee.
 
2013-05-09 10:37:09 AM  

Egoy3k: FoxKelfonne: They, however, are never going to hit that high mark again. The high mark in subscribers was around and just after Wrath of the Lich King. This was the ending chapter to the story started way back in Warcraft III, and was an important milestone for a LOT of people. I imagine just the prospect of defeating Arthas brought a lot of people in, and Deathwing was sort of a crappy villain in comparison.

I left once pug raids were able to accomplish things that should take an organized raiding guild to do. Yes it locked away content from a lot of players but that was the beauty of it. When you took down the biggest and baddest raids and had the gear to prove it you felt like a god, and people noticed. Once they made the raids stupid easy I was paying a monthly fee to play a regular video game.

Before that I was paying a monthly fee for a game that forced me and 49 (or 24) other people to work as a team and communicate. We spent time making the right meals, gathering materials for the best enchantments for our guild mates etc. The whole guild worked as a team to produce results. That was worth a monthly fee.


*rolls eyes* Go play for Vodka or Exodus! oh yeah, they were hardcore then said things were too hard so they quit.
 
2013-05-09 10:37:24 AM  

Egoy3k: FoxKelfonne: They, however, are never going to hit that high mark again. The high mark in subscribers was around and just after Wrath of the Lich King. This was the ending chapter to the story started way back in Warcraft III, and was an important milestone for a LOT of people. I imagine just the prospect of defeating Arthas brought a lot of people in, and Deathwing was sort of a crappy villain in comparison.

I left once pug raids were able to accomplish things that should take an organized raiding guild to do. Yes it locked away content from a lot of players but that was the beauty of it. When you took down the biggest and baddest raids and had the gear to prove it you felt like a god, and people noticed. Once they made the raids stupid easy I was paying a monthly fee to play a regular video game.

Before that I was paying a monthly fee for a game that forced me and 49 (or 24) other people to work as a team and communicate. We spent time making the right meals, gathering materials for the best enchantments for our guild mates etc. The whole guild worked as a team to produce results. That was worth a monthly fee.


So basically you just ignored hard modes/heroics? Because those aren't "stupid easy", Just sayin.
 
2013-05-09 10:40:12 AM  

lousyskater: So basically you just ignored hard modes/heroics? Because those aren't "stupid easy", Just sayin.


He misses the days when the hardest thing about the game was the cat herding, not the content itself. =P
 
2013-05-09 10:47:24 AM  

Dinobot: *rolls eyes* Go play for Vodka or Exodus! oh yeah, they were hardcore then said things were too hard so they quit.


I never said WOW was super hard or that I was awesome.  What I said was that once content became achievable for all players the game had no more appeal than any other game, and most of those don't have a subscription fee. So I stopped paying the subscription fee. The draw for me was the fact that it forced our guild to work together to get results.  When I felt like a useful cog in a larger machine that was achieving results that other players couldn't I was happy to pay. When a PUG can run the same content, that draw wasn't there any longer.

lousyskater: So basically you just ignored hard modes/heroics? Because those aren't "stupid easy", Just sayin.


Maybe not stupid easy but still that's just a beefed up re-hash of content that we already saw.  The draw was feeling like you are doing and seeing things that most players won't until the level cap increases a few times. It's selfish, I'll be the first to admit it but I'm allowed to be selfish about what my money is spent on.
 
2013-05-09 10:58:32 AM  
Stopped playing after Cataclysm. After having basically years of fun with a core group of guys and gals that became IRL friends, cata just became too much of a chore. The story became lame because the main bad guy was just some muppet that meant nothing to you unless you read the expanded works novels, too much cut content (I LIKED Vashj) and everything just felt...boring. I DID enjoy leveling alts up in the revamped zones but after that the end game was stale. Knocked out a few heroic raids and most of my guild just went 'f-k it' and we turned into a PVP farming guild.

Never bought MoP nor do i intend to, which is sad because id like to get back in the game but if a new awesome expansion comes out, im not dropping 30 bucks on outdated content just so i can drop another 60 on the current expansion. Blizz REALLY needs to get over the whole 'we gotta charge for all our old content' stuff. one of my kids is old enough to play with mom and i but we arent going to drop another 100 bucks getting her software up to speed. everything short of MoP should be a 15 dollar bundle AT MOST says I!
 
2013-05-09 10:59:11 AM  

Egoy3k: Dinobot: *rolls eyes* Go play for Vodka or Exodus! oh yeah, they were hardcore then said things were too hard so they quit.

I never said WOW was super hard or that I was awesome.  What I said was that once content became achievable for all players the game had no more appeal than any other game, and most of those don't have a subscription fee. So I stopped paying the subscription fee. The draw for me was the fact that it forced our guild to work together to get results.  When I felt like a useful cog in a larger machine that was achieving results that other players couldn't I was happy to pay. When a PUG can run the same content, that draw wasn't there any longer.

lousyskater: So basically you just ignored hard modes/heroics? Because those aren't "stupid easy", Just sayin.

Maybe not stupid easy but still that's just a beefed up re-hash of content that we already saw.  The draw was feeling like you are doing and seeing things that most players won't until the level cap increases a few times. It's selfish, I'll be the first to admit it but I'm allowed to be selfish about what my money is spent on.


I dunno, I thought LFR and such was a good idea just because most people go through the expansions and have no idea how they ended, because they weren't able to do the raids. When your expansion story ends in something many people don't get to see, that sort of sucks for them.
Normal / Heroic modes are still challenging though, and there are prestige awards (mounts and titles) and achievements you can only get by doing things the harder way.
 
2013-05-09 11:01:47 AM  

GameSprocket: Oddly enough, I started playing Diablo 3 again. They changed it a lot and it is kind of addictive. Honestly, it doesn't give much of a challenge, but it is kind of fun watching everything blow up. It is like a video game version of popping bubble-wrap if the bubble-wrap had prizes.


I can get that experience from D2 though.... and I don't have to have Blizzard situated deep in my ass the whole time because they want me to buy shinies from their stupid auction house.
 
2013-05-09 11:02:09 AM  
I actually just went back to WoW after having left right after TBC was released.  I am having a lot of fun on my lvl 90 toon going back and soloing the raid content I missed when I originally played and getting items I can use to transmogrify my current gear.  Sadly, raiding current content with full 25/40 groups is out of the picture for me until I update my woefully underpowered PC (it is 8 years old and I get to watch a raid slideshow if I try to do anything more than 5-person dungeons).
 
2013-05-09 11:03:53 AM  

Subtle_Canary: everything short of MoP should be a 15 dollar bundle AT MOST says


There has been several sale specials on the blizz stores where they sell Vanilla thru Wrath for 10 bucks, and Cata for another 10 bucks.
 
2013-05-09 11:04:33 AM  

Subtle_Canary: Stopped playing after Cataclysm. After having basically years of fun with a core group of guys and gals that became IRL friends, cata just became too much of a chore. The story became lame because the main bad guy was just some muppet that meant nothing to you unless you read the expanded works novels, too much cut content (I LIKED Vashj) and everything just felt...boring. I DID enjoy leveling alts up in the revamped zones but after that the end game was stale. Knocked out a few heroic raids and most of my guild just went 'f-k it' and we turned into a PVP farming guild.

Never bought MoP nor do i intend to, which is sad because id like to get back in the game but if a new awesome expansion comes out, im not dropping 30 bucks on outdated content just so i can drop another 60 on the current expansion. Blizz REALLY needs to get over the whole 'we gotta charge for all our old content' stuff. one of my kids is old enough to play with mom and i but we arent going to drop another 100 bucks getting her software up to speed. everything short of MoP should be a 15 dollar bundle AT MOST says I!


MoP is a vast improvement upon Cata if you ever get the chance to pick it up cheap.
 
2013-05-09 11:06:33 AM  
Whoever thought daily quests was a good idea needs to be stabbed in the aorta. BORING
 
2013-05-09 11:14:00 AM  

CPennypacker: Whoever thought daily quests was a good idea needs to be stabbed in the aorta. BORING


Dailies by themselves weren't the problem. I had fun doing Queldanas in BC and other daily hubs in Wrath. The problem was that they used them as the only way to get reputation and all the Valor gear was hidden behind that reputation.

Even BC was better in that aspect. Badge gear was not gated behind your rep with Shatt/Lower city, as long as you had the currency, you could buy it.

The faction gear could be purchased with gold.

It was mixing the two things that ruined it for many people and made more people find dailies the worst part of the game -- that and the reputation only being acquired thru those dailies.

Had they not tied valor gear to reputation standings or had they allowed to gain reputation thru dungeons like you did in wrath/cata, they would not be having tons of people complaining about the dailies. The dailies were just a symptom, not the cause.

And getting 300 rep a day from doing a daily is nowhere near a good solution, specially since it was added way after the wave of complaints AND barely does anything to get your rep bar full.
 
2013-05-09 11:17:47 AM  
I'll throw my hat in on the MoP was awesome, but the pvp...isn't...

Way too much CC killed it for me.  2 minute trinket just isn't enough.
 
2013-05-09 11:24:16 AM  
i miss the sun well isle dailies only because i was on a pvp server and they urned into massive pvp fes for questing privileges. hated firelands for some reason and never did them.
 
2013-05-09 11:25:19 AM  
FoxKelfonne: I think Mists of Pandaria has just about the best questing experience that WoW has had in a long time, but yes, the rep-gated Valor gear was a real pain. Rep-gated reputations were even worse, but they're getting rid of those restrictions at least.

This was about my experience with it. I'd quit for 6 months or so at the end of Cataclysm, resubscribed for three months when Pandas came out, figuring that'd give me enough time to get to 90 and see what was what. Loved the 85-to-90 experience (got two toons to 90), then saw the vast wasteland of daily quests and rep grinds ahead of me, and didn't re-up.
 
2013-05-09 11:27:31 AM  
"i miss the sun well isle dailies only because i was on a pvp server and they urned into massive pvp fes for questing privileges. hated firelands for some reason and never did them."

What's not to love about doing dailies to even be able to access your daily quest zone?
 
2013-05-09 11:41:48 AM  

Captain Zapp: I unsubbed after Isle of Thunder came out. My boredom with WoW finally dawned on me as I was grinding for the warlock green fire quest item. Now enjoying Dark Souls instead.


Green Fire? My lvl 85 Gnome Warlock's eyebrows raise, before I remind him that i am not going back to WoW.
 
2013-05-09 11:50:17 AM  

Egoy3k: FoxKelfonne: They, however, are never going to hit that high mark again. The high mark in subscribers was around and just after Wrath of the Lich King. This was the ending chapter to the story started way back in Warcraft III, and was an important milestone for a LOT of people. I imagine just the prospect of defeating Arthas brought a lot of people in, and Deathwing was sort of a crappy villain in comparison.

I left once pug raids were able to accomplish things that should take an organized raiding guild to do. Yes it locked away content from a lot of players but that was the beauty of it. When you took down the biggest and baddest raids and had the gear to prove it you felt like a god, and people noticed. Once they made the raids stupid easy I was paying a monthly fee to play a regular video game.

Before that I was paying a monthly fee for a game that forced me and 49 (or 24) other people to work as a team and communicate. We spent time making the right meals, gathering materials for the best enchantments for our guild mates etc. The whole guild worked as a team to produce results. That was worth a monthly fee.


This is exactly why I quit after Cata (but probably should have before LK).  The watered down 10 man/25 man LK style raids and the rise of PUG raids wrecked the guild exp.  All my fun was with the guild working togther like we did in BC (although even that was watered down from the EQ days)

In my opinion this is where MMORGs fail now, the whole point is banding together with a group (party, raid, mega raid of 40+) to overcome obstacles (PVE/PVP)  that are difficult and meaningful (aka rewards being the reinforcement and meaningful as time goes one and not reset with every expansion) has gone away.

Instead its beeen replaced with grinding time sinks (idiotic faction dailies as a solo person) or littering content with purchase opportunties (lockboc keys etc) .
 
2013-05-09 11:51:38 AM  

Need a Dispenser Here: Captain Zapp: I unsubbed after Isle of Thunder came out. My boredom with WoW finally dawned on me as I was grinding for the warlock green fire quest item. Now enjoying Dark Souls instead.

Green Fire? My lvl 85 Gnome Warlock's eyebrows raise, before I remind him that i am not going back to WoW.


I haven't started it on my lock yet (the item to start it is a super rare drop and thus pretty expensive on the AH) but I hear it is a long, difficult solo line for warlocks with the only upside being that completing it makes your fire spells green instead of red.   There may be more to it, but I haven't read up on the whole thing yet.  I have heard it is insanely difficult complete though.
 
2013-05-09 11:55:40 AM  

HallsOfMandos: Need a Dispenser Here: Captain Zapp: I unsubbed after Isle of Thunder came out. My boredom with WoW finally dawned on me as I was grinding for the warlock green fire quest item. Now enjoying Dark Souls instead.

Green Fire? My lvl 85 Gnome Warlock's eyebrows raise, before I remind him that i am not going back to WoW.

I haven't started it on my lock yet (the item to start it is a super rare drop and thus pretty expensive on the AH) but I hear it is a long, difficult solo line for warlocks with the only upside being that completing it makes your fire spells green instead of red.   There may be more to it, but I haven't read up on the whole thing yet.  I have heard it is insanely difficult complete though.


So basically what a quest was in Vanilla or BC?
 
2013-05-09 12:01:23 PM  
I would go back to WoW if they figure out how to make a "toymaker" specialization for engineers. They could create different toy blueprints that randomly drop in an area appropriate for the toy (oriental, creep, native american, etc). I don't really care if the toys have any combat value. I played the game for exploration and fun. They could also make a daily quest out of that flaming hamster ball quest that came out with Cataclysm.
 
2013-05-09 12:06:42 PM  

FoxKelfonne: Egoy3k: Dinobot: *rolls eyes* Go play for Vodka or Exodus! oh yeah, they were hardcore then said things were too hard so they quit.

I never said WOW was super hard or that I was awesome.  What I said was that once content became achievable for all players the game had no more appeal than any other game, and most of those don't have a subscription fee. So I stopped paying the subscription fee. The draw for me was the fact that it forced our guild to work together to get results.  When I felt like a useful cog in a larger machine that was achieving results that other players couldn't I was happy to pay. When a PUG can run the same content, that draw wasn't there any longer.

lousyskater: So basically you just ignored hard modes/heroics? Because those aren't "stupid easy", Just sayin.

Maybe not stupid easy but still that's just a beefed up re-hash of content that we already saw.  The draw was feeling like you are doing and seeing things that most players won't until the level cap increases a few times. It's selfish, I'll be the first to admit it but I'm allowed to be selfish about what my money is spent on.

I dunno, I thought LFR and such was a good idea just because most people go through the expansions and have no idea how they ended, because they weren't able to do the raids. When your expansion story ends in something many people don't get to see, that sort of sucks for them.
Normal / Heroic modes are still challenging though, and there are prestige awards (mounts and titles) and achievements you can only get by doing things the harder way.


On many levels I agree with you and clearly that was a good business decision to make. Like I said in a  follow up post though, I'm allowed to be selfish with my money. Blizzard killed the aspect of WOW that I found worth paying for so I stopped paying.  That doesn't mean they were wrong, for all we know they held on to way more players than they would have if they had kept the endgame content more exclusive.
 
2013-05-09 12:11:22 PM  
there is/was no quest in the game more satisfying to accomplish than the original warlock epic mount quest. when i finished it it was the equivalent of having a 3-some with scarlett johansson and angelina jolie except all your friends could SEE how awesome you were
 
2013-05-09 12:12:06 PM  

Zoe_Galvin: Egoy3k: FoxKelfonne: They, however, are never going to hit that high mark again. The high mark in subscribers was around and just after Wrath of the Lich King. This was the ending chapter to the story started way back in Warcraft III, and was an important milestone for a LOT of people. I imagine just the prospect of defeating Arthas brought a lot of people in, and Deathwing was sort of a crappy villain in comparison.

I left once pug raids were able to accomplish things that should take an organized raiding guild to do. Yes it locked away content from a lot of players but that was the beauty of it. When you took down the biggest and baddest raids and had the gear to prove it you felt like a god, and people noticed. Once they made the raids stupid easy I was paying a monthly fee to play a regular video game.

Before that I was paying a monthly fee for a game that forced me and 49 (or 24) other people to work as a team and communicate. We spent time making the right meals, gathering materials for the best enchantments for our guild mates etc. The whole guild worked as a team to produce results. That was worth a monthly fee.

This is exactly why I quit after Cata (but probably should have before LK).  The watered down 10 man/25 man LK style raids and the rise of PUG raids wrecked the guild exp.  All my fun was with the guild working togther like we did in BC (although even that was watered down from the EQ days)

In my opinion this is where MMORGs fail now, the whole point is banding together with a group (party, raid, mega raid of 40+) to overcome obstacles (PVE/PVP)  that are difficult and meaningful (aka rewards being the reinforcement and meaningful as time goes one and not reset with every expansion) has gone away.

Instead its beeen replaced with grinding time sinks (idiotic faction dailies as a solo person) or littering content with purchase opportunties (lockboc keys etc) .


I came from raiding with FoH in EQ and a few top 10 guilds in WoW, the raiding formulas have always been bogus. While ultimately sometimes rewarding, the single largest problem was that the vast majority of your player base is left without content if that is the "end-game" and guild dynamics are highly time-consuming and frustrating. When you have 40+ people in a raid and only compensate a few, that is deflating. When you contribute vastly more than your other members and yet have no loot drop, that is deflating. Having people standing by in case someone dcs or waiting for people to poop, feed their kids, etc in a never-ending chain is not fun. The ACTUAL time spent playing the game is next to nothing.

You can just as easily have that sense of accomplishment with smaller groups or solo. That model works better for more people and is closer aligned to how social circles ACTUALLY work instead of raiding with 39 others - a few of which you like, most of which you don't or wish you weren't fighting against for loot. 10 man Epic Sarth is a prime example of how these smaller encounters CAN be more challenging and rewarding than the larger raids. I'll admit, being one of the first to have BT on farm or ST on farm was fun and rewarding but it gets old. I much rather enjoy being able to boot up the computer and immediately start playing - rather than wait until X time and plan my entire life around that commitment.

I am not defending WoW, I have long since stopped playing it. MMORPGs fail now because they either try to be too much, or lose sight of what makes the game fun. Progression and reward is what makes an MMORPG fun. When either of those two components stall or are missed, the game dies. It is that simple. The more forms of progression and risk v reward you put into the game, the better the overall experience. In addition to this, making your game PVE focused with PVP being secondary is a GOOD idea. If you want organized PVP, use a controlled system with another set of rules to "balance it" to not disturb the core game. Let the open world PVP be highly imbalanced, that is what makes it fun. Everyone likes to feel overpowered sometimes, isn't that why we dedicate so much time to grinding and progressing?

Last but not least, understanding the core dynamics of an MMORPG is important. Unique classes and specialization is a must. Not every class has to be great solo in every situation. Not every class needs to be a "Red Mage". Understanding the necessity and design of SUPPORT classes, Pure classes, and Hybrids is vital. Understanding itemization and loot is likewise equally important.

On paper, making an MMORPG fun and successful is not very hard to do if you understand the genre.
 
2013-05-09 12:15:16 PM  

Subtle_Canary: there is/was no quest in the game more satisfying to accomplish than the original warlock epic mount quest. when i finished it it was the equivalent of having a 3-some with scarlett johansson and angelina jolie except all your friends could SEE how awesome you were


I don't know. The original Druid flight form was a BIG deal to achieve.

Hell, hitting 60 used to be a big deal.
 
2013-05-09 01:04:33 PM  
.....

I came from raiding with FoH in EQ and a few top 10 guilds in WoW, the raid ...


Like your post, we agree alot, especialy around PVE main with PVP alternate focus.

Enjoyed the EQ raids/early Wow massive raids as well but the full time job aspect eventualy got old (granted didnt play at the FOH level, I know that legend), managing all the logistics ("make sure you consent your corpse!") = a job not a game.  I think the most fun I had in 10+ years of MMORG was in 5 man groups in a very hard open PVE env (think breaking into lower guk in crap gear and holding the camp with almost noone in the zone).

Been MMORG free now for a couple of years, I do miss it some times though. There just is nothing they are selling now that I want to invest my time in anymore.
 
2013-05-09 01:08:44 PM  

GameSprocket: Subtle_Canary: there is/was no quest in the game more satisfying to accomplish than the original warlock epic mount quest. when i finished it it was the equivalent of having a 3-some with scarlett johansson and angelina jolie except all your friends could SEE how awesome you were

I don't know. The original Druid flight form was a BIG deal to achieve.

Hell, hitting 60 used to be a big deal.


I got the blood knight polearm and the epic charger in BC, when it was a big deal. Still one of my favorite mounts.
 
2013-05-09 01:12:50 PM  
Everyone has there theory so I'll share mine. The biggest mistake that wow has made is the way that they cannibalized their community. For example, they essentially stole the hard work of many add-on developers by taking their ideas and putting them in the game themselves. While they had every legal right to do that, the problem was that in essence they pissed on some of their most passionate fans. They also made the mistake of creating official blog sites such was wowhead and mmo-champ. Again, while this allowed them to standardize product marketing it it also took away a great deal of the social energy behind the game. Four years ago there were a ton of independent wow bloggers and they have almost entirely disappeared from the scene. Then there is the way that they hired away some of the best people in the community, like they recently did with the guy from Tankspot. In the long run it killed a lot of the passion for the game as a social experience. Blizzard controls the community too much.

It is interesting to compare the way Taylor Swift treats her fans vs the way wow has treated its fans. Taylor really focuses on tapping into the energy of her most passionate fans and rewarding them rather than focusing in on the causal fan because she believes that in the long run drowning in casuals is not the best way to create longevity in her career. Her goal is to try and create as many "free radicals" in the community as possible. This is quite different from Blizzard's command and control outlook towards its community.
 
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