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(USA Today)   Dear Cleveland police. 911 calls from neighbors about naked women being lead around on dog leashes MIGHT just be nothing more than a really swinging S&M party, but you still maybe oughta send a car by to check it out   (usatoday.com) divider line 160
    More: Followup, Cleveland Police, Cleveland, Gina DeJesus, Ariel Castro, law enforcement officials, nudities, Department of Public Safety  
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10244 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 May 2013 at 11:51 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-08 02:04:48 PM  

Peki: Magorn: Benevolent Misanthrope: colinspooky: hindsight

Exactly.  Leading a woman around on a leash, while it might not be your thing, is not illegal.

however leading a NAKED one around on a leash outside, at the very least violates public deceny laws which is enough to check it ou

Not if it's in the backyard.

I cast spells naked in the backyard as part of my spiritual path. I would really rather not have to interrupt my ritual every single time because some fricken busybody thinks I'm doing something demonic.

/key phrase is "expectation of privacy"


I got bad news for you and your "skyclad" religious observances, hon,  You can get busted for "indecent exposure"  even when you are in the privacy of your own home and the person you "exposed" yourself to  was trespassing across your property.  Just ask this  guy:

and yes "reasonable expectation of privacy is in fact the phrase that pays, but ti doesn't work the way you think it idoes.  Courts have basically said that anytime you are within the line of sight of another person, you have no expectation of privacy, even if that party (say the police) have to use binoculars or a telescope to observe you).  I help run an event that includes a clothing optional ethos, and I'm a lawyer so I have very carefully educated myself on these laws.  (the event protects itself by having a screen of vegetation all around the event, having a "no nudity beyond the gate" policy and renting land from an owner who has an "understanding" with the local law enforcement)
 
2013-05-08 02:06:36 PM  
What are the recidivism stats for people that have imprisoned others for 10 years?

HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: I assume you mean recidivism rates for sexual offenders?

No, I would have said that if that was the case.


Your argument leaves out so many things (most importantly motive).  For one, I'm sure recidivism rates are 100 percent for Prison wardens.  I'm pretty sure after imprisoning several thousand inmates for several years, they are likely to do so once again.  I'm not exactly sure of your angle here but if it's confusion, consider yourself successful.
 
2013-05-08 02:10:53 PM  

Abuse Liability: I'd hardly consider myself a badass. We only euthanize out of necessity and because we think the data generated by serum and blood levels may be useful to science in general.  I don't get some grim satisfaction from using the guillotine.  At least I don't think I got a boner the last time...


You use a guillotine?
 
2013-05-08 02:13:02 PM  
Ramsey not the first to help?... ¿Que?
 
2013-05-08 02:15:37 PM  

Abuse Liability: For one, I'm sure recidivism rates are 100 percent for Prison wardens.


Do you understand the word recidivism in the context you're using it?
 
2013-05-08 02:16:17 PM  

Mazzic518: Abuse Liability: I'd hardly consider myself a badass. We only euthanize out of necessity and because we think the data generated by serum and blood levels may be useful to science in general.  I don't get some grim satisfaction from using the guillotine.  At least I don't think I got a boner the last time...

You use a guillotine?


For rodents yes.  Most often they are anesthetized using isoflurane first as we are humane and respect the animals contribution (i'll even throw in an 'unwilling' for all those PETA fans out there) to science.
 
2013-05-08 02:18:30 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Abuse Liability: For one, I'm sure recidivism rates are 100 percent for Prison wardens.

Do you understand the word recidivism in the context you're using it?


yes, yes I do.  I was merely poking fun at your flimsy argument, if it can even be called that.
 
2013-05-08 02:20:31 PM  

legion_of_doo: Deucednuisance: Waldo Pepper: 1940's

He said if you're not trolling, dude.

heh... in the 1940's, Chinamen were excluded from citizenship & could not legally own property, blacks were also second class citizens, japs and others were rounded up into prison
camps, but greatest generation (tm)!!!!11!1!!!


There was no gays "officially" nor was anyone besides jazz musicians on "the pot" girls were girls and men were men.

ya Im grasping at straws.

define morally corrupt. What to one person is corruption to another is proper
 
2013-05-08 02:27:35 PM  

Abuse Liability: Mazzic518: Abuse Liability: I'd hardly consider myself a badass. We only euthanize out of necessity and because we think the data generated by serum and blood levels may be useful to science in general.  I don't get some grim satisfaction from using the guillotine.  At least I don't think I got a boner the last time...

You use a guillotine?

For rodents yes.  Most often they are anesthetized using isoflurane first as we are humane and respect the animals contribution (i'll even throw in an 'unwilling' for all those PETA fans out there) to science.


Wow I just googled them and they are real... I cut up dead animals all day long but don't think I could lop redents' heads off lol. Glad someone else has that job :)
 
2013-05-08 02:32:48 PM  
The same thing happened to one of Jeffrey Dahmer's victims, only he got taken back, killed, and eaten.
 
2013-05-08 02:39:47 PM  
It's kindof sick to think how many times these women could have been freed if the neighbors would have taken literally 2 minutes to call the police on, for instance, seeing a freakin little girl trying to escape the attic.
 
2013-05-08 02:47:14 PM  

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: I enjoy S&M parties. That's when I mix my Skittles and M&M's, right?


As long as you keep your Skittles indoors, where no Neighborhood Watch can see them, you should be alright.
 
2013-05-08 02:48:30 PM  

SithLord: Explain to me how sodomy is any less offensive than rape.


And here is where the Sithy torpedoes his own argument.
 
2013-05-08 02:52:23 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: SithLord: Explain to me how sodomy is any less offensive than rape.

Uhhhh


You can't reason with derp like that.  It's simply not possible.  If he's sincere, he's too far gone to to be reached, and if he's trolling, you wouldn't want to waste your time feeding him.

I'm guessing from the handle "SithLord" he's a troll, but it really doesn't matter.  Arguing about whether someone's a troll is just another waste of time.
 
2013-05-08 02:54:52 PM  

SelenaDori: They were just taking the dogs out to release the bowels, they didnt want to have to clean up after them in the basement.
Housebroken, what good girls...


in case nobody else said it yet:

fark YOU
 
2013-05-08 03:07:24 PM  
I saw the first interview with the young lady (done in her backyard) and she said that they didn't call the police because they found it 'funny'.  Her story has become quite different with each retelling.
 
2013-05-08 03:07:35 PM  

SithLord: PunGent: SithLord: Magorn: SithLord: Who cares.  It's old news now.  What these men did shouldn't be a crime.  They were merely acting out their fantasies in the privacy of their own home.  They should be praised for coming out as doms.  What they did was not morally corrupt.  They should be allowed to marry their subs.  Praise the Cleveland police for not prying in the lives of private citizens and letting them carry on their business.

Kids should fear guns, not innocent kidnappers who just want to get their jollies.  What is wrong with the close-minded tea-tards?

hey look another "Conservative" who fails to understand the phrase "between CONSENTING adults"   HMM, maybe THAT's why Republicans are always going on about rape, because they just can;t wrap thier head around the concept?

Another liberal who doesn't understand I used your side's talking points when stating how morally corrupt this country has become.

If you're not trolling, kindly pick a decade in this nation's history when you think we were less 'morally corrupt'.

Any decade prior to the 60s.


Really?

You think Jim Crow laws were moral?

You're either singularly uninformed about U.S. history, or a bigot, or a troll.

Not sure I care which, frankly.

/ignore
 
2013-05-08 03:08:44 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: SithLord: PunGent: SithLord: Another liberal who doesn't understand I used your side's talking points when stating how morally corrupt this country has become.

If you're not trolling, kindly pick a decade in this nation's history when you think we were less 'morally corrupt'.

Any decade prior to the 60s.

Leave it to Beaver wasn't a documentary.



"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." - misattributed to Socrates or Plato but actually from the play The Clouds, 423 BC

There's a book  The Way We Never Were: American Families and the Nostalgia Trap by  Stephanie Coontz that addresses this issue in detail (as regards the United States, at least), but it really boils down to a fundamental difference between Conservatives and Progressives, indeed the very difference that gives these two groups their names.  On the most basic level, Conservatives see society as degenerating from a "golden age" when everything was better, while Progressives see society as advancing from a dark past into a more enlightened future.  Hence the names: Conservatives want to Conserve as much as was good in the past as possible, slow down, halt, or ideally reverse the ongoing decay (as they see it), while Progressives want to speed up Progress and advance into the better future (as they see it) quickly.

So thinking that the American society was far better in the 1950s than it is today is an essential part of an American Conservative's worldview, no matter how historically inaccurate or revisionist that fantasy is.

To put it simply, trying to convince them that Leave it to Beaver wasn't a documentary is like trying to convince a devout Christian that Jesus didn't rise from the dead.
 
2013-05-08 03:12:04 PM  

legion_of_doo: both libtards and conservatards believe in small government for what they agree with, and big government for what they disagree with.

the argument often begins with "X is less regulated than Y, and that is wrong."

X or Y could be abortion, gun control, free speech, religious practices, etc.


Yes, but the big difference between the two groups is that Conservatives try to CLAIM they're the party of small government.  You very rarely find a Liberal or Democrat in the USA asserting that smaller government is what they're fighting for, and that the other side is bad because they want Big Government.

So what you say is true, but if you are trying to use it as a BSABSVR argument, it fails.
 
2013-05-08 03:16:09 PM  

Anastacya: Amidala: Did Charles Ramsey bust the door open for you?

No, but my ex-husband hit me so hard in the face that he fractured my skull. I left him by packing up my car with what I could carry, taking my dog, and fled while he was at work. I had help. It wasn't Charles Ramsey, but it was a man who was equally heroic.



Thank you for sharing that.

(And I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically.)
 
2013-05-08 03:18:57 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: dfenstrate: Given that opportunity, I would simply execute them and move on with my life.

Are you a sociopath?


Well, his name IS a spelling variation of "defenestrate" so what do you expect?
 
2013-05-08 03:31:40 PM  

PunGent: Waldo Pepper: PunGent: SithLord: Magorn: SithLord: Who cares.  It's old news now.  What these men did shouldn't be a crime.  They were merely acting out their fantasies in the privacy of their own home.  They should be praised for coming out as doms.  What they did was not morally corrupt.  They should be allowed to marry their subs.  Praise the Cleveland police for not prying in the lives of private citizens and letting them carry on their business.

Kids should fear guns, not innocent kidnappers who just want to get their jollies.  What is wrong with the close-minded tea-tards?

hey look another "Conservative" who fails to understand the phrase "between CONSENTING adults"   HMM, maybe THAT's why Republicans are always going on about rape, because they just can;t wrap thier head around the concept?

Another liberal who doesn't understand I used your side's talking points when stating how morally corrupt this country has become.

If you're not trolling, kindly pick a decade in this nation's history when you think we were less 'morally corrupt'.

1940's

Same response to you: you a fan of Jim Crow laws?

Won't ignore you yet; unlike the last guy, you weren't already color-coded Derptard Red.


My  answer doesn't automatically makes me a fan of the horrible actions of the 1940's.
 
2013-05-08 03:34:47 PM  
I know I'm late to the party but I'm just gonna leave this right here.

encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com
 
2013-05-08 03:41:48 PM  

ciberido: legion_of_doo: both libtards and conservatards believe in small government for what they agree with, and big government for what they disagree with.

the argument often begins with "X is less regulated than Y, and that is wrong."

X or Y could be abortion, gun control, free speech, religious practices, etc.

Yes, but the big difference between the two groups is that Conservatives try to CLAIM they're the party of small government.  You very rarely find a Liberal or Democrat in the USA asserting that smaller government is what they're fighting for, and that the other side is bad because they want Big Government.

So what you say is true, but if you are trying to use it as a BSABSVR argument, it fails.


well, both sides claim to love "freedom"... but, collectively, each side only supports the freedoms that mesh with their agendas.

you cannot claim that any mere mortal or their org is less flawed than another unless you identify with some wing nut group.
 
2013-05-08 03:48:35 PM  

ciberido: Anastacya: Amidala: Did Charles Ramsey bust the door open for you?

No, but my ex-husband hit me so hard in the face that he fractured my skull. I left him by packing up my car with what I could carry, taking my dog, and fled while he was at work. I had help. It wasn't Charles Ramsey, but it was a man who was equally heroic.


Thank you for sharing that.

(And I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically.)


Thank you.
 
2013-05-08 03:56:20 PM  
Was it rape/rape or just rape? Has Whoopie weighed in on this yet?
 
2013-05-08 03:56:44 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: colinspooky: hindsight

Exactly.  Leading a woman around on a leash, while it might not be your thing, is not illegal.


Thank GOD you weren't there THAT day. Let's just assume it is until we learn that it isn't.
 
2013-05-08 04:11:04 PM  
i1182.photobucket.com

It's contagious. :-(
 
2013-05-08 04:11:43 PM  
I'm not believing the story that someone saw them walking the girls around with a dog leach and called 911. I think that is somebody making up a story to get some attention. The guy that found them said that there wasn't anything abnormal about the guys that kidnapped them. He said that he would regularly see them in their backyard playing with their dogs and messing with their bikes. I seriously doubt that they would have their victims out in a yard that was that visible by their neighbors.
 
2013-05-08 04:35:04 PM  

ciberido: HotWingConspiracy: SithLord: PunGent: SithLord: Another liberal who doesn't understand I used your side's talking points when stating how morally corrupt this country has become.

If you're not trolling, kindly pick a decade in this nation's history when you think we were less 'morally corrupt'.

Any decade prior to the 60s.

Leave it to Beaver wasn't a documentary.


"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." - misattributed to Socrates or Plato but actually from the play The Clouds, 423 BC

There's a book  The Way We Never Were: American Families and the Nostalgia Trap by  Stephanie Coontz that addresses this issue in detail (as regards the United States, at least), but it really boils down to a fundamental difference between Conservatives and Progressives, indeed the very difference that gives these two groups their names.  On the most basic level, Conservatives see society as degenerating from a "golden age" when everything was better, while Progressives see society as advancing from a dark past into a more enlightened future.  Hence the names: Conservatives want to Conserve as much as was good in the past as possible, slow down, halt, or ideally reverse the ongoing decay (as they see it), while Progressives want to speed up Progress and advance into the better future (as they see it) quickly.

So thinking that the American society was far better in the 1950s than it is today is an essential part of an American Conservative's worldview, no matter how historically inaccurate or revisionist that fantasy is.

To put it simply, trying to convince them that Leave it to Beaver wasn't a documentary is like trying to con ...


Absolutely true.  My parents are extremist christian conservatives and they would call the woman who wrote "The Way We Never Were" a liberal athiest history revisionist.  They believe with all that they are that the 1950's was perfect and Jesus is coming back to get them before they die.  They believe that the liberals are rewriting history.  My Mother constantly tells me how violent Martin Luther King Jr. was and how he started race riots wherever he went.  My Grandmother talks about how sad her black "servants" were to be set free and told they could no longer work for her for free.  My parents were very upset when I decided to go to college.  They had hoped I would "stay home and have babies".  Because that's what good christian conservative women do.  It's their place.
 
2013-05-08 04:35:27 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: The_Gallant_Gallstone: I would feel like I might need new drapes.

I wiped my dick on the old ones, so...yeah.


Cthulhu is still pissed about that, too...
 
2013-05-08 05:30:25 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: Hey look another shiat talking internet bad ass.


I'm an internet tough guy, you're a dipsh*t armchair psychologist, we're all just a bunch of yapping, postulating fools wasting time on the internet.

Do you imagine if you're clever enough, with sufficiently witty retorts, you'll get crowned 'King of Internet Commentators' ?
 
If you wanted to call me an ITG you could have just done it out of the gate instead of trying to be cute. Now you're a dipsh*t armchair psychologist with an inferiority complex.
\I play DSAP too.
 
2013-05-08 05:31:18 PM  

ongbok: I'm not believing the story that someone saw them walking the girls around with a dog leach and called 911. I think that is somebody making up a story to get some attention. The guy that found them said that there wasn't anything abnormal about the guys that kidnapped them. He said that he would regularly see them in their backyard playing with their dogs and messing with their bikes. I seriously doubt that they would have their victims out in a yard that was that visible by their neighbors.


I saw those people on TV, dumb as dirt and unable to keep their story straight. The conference now is stating that they'd only left the house twice in ten years to the best of the girls knowledge.

They are full of shiat.

Also, the brothers, as skeevy as they look were not charged and and according to the girls were never involved.

Maybe Stockholm, but it looks like there is only one monster in the Castro family at the moment.
 
2013-05-08 06:10:46 PM  

EvilMonkeyBoy: ongbok: I'm not believing the story that someone saw them walking the girls around with a dog leach and called 911. I think that is somebody making up a story to get some attention. The guy that found them said that there wasn't anything abnormal about the guys that kidnapped them. He said that he would regularly see them in their backyard playing with their dogs and messing with their bikes. I seriously doubt that they would have their victims out in a yard that was that visible by their neighbors.

I saw those people on TV, dumb as dirt and unable to keep their story straight. The conference now is stating that they'd only left the house twice in ten years to the best of the girls knowledge.

They are full of shiat.

Also, the brothers, as skeevy as they look were not charged and and according to the girls were never involved.

Maybe Stockholm, but it looks like there is only one monster in the Castro family at the moment.


mentalfloss.com
 
2013-05-08 06:19:34 PM  

EvilMonkeyBoy: Also, the brothers, as skeevy as they look were not charged and and according to the girls were never involved.

Maybe Stockholm, but it looks like there is only one monster in the Castro family at the moment.


Saw that. Looks like the two brothers were arrested, because they were with Ariel Castro when he was arrested. That has to make the Castro family feel a little better that they have one evil douche in the family, and not three.
 
2013-05-08 06:22:39 PM  

sisterinarms: ciberido: HotWingConspiracy: SithLord: PunGent: SithLord: Another liberal who doesn't understand I used your side's talking points when stating how morally corrupt this country has become.

If you're not trolling, kindly pick a decade in this nation's history when you think we were less 'morally corrupt'.

Any decade prior to the 60s.

Leave it to Beaver wasn't a documentary.


"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." - misattributed to Socrates or Plato but actually from the play The Clouds, 423 BC

There's a book  The Way We Never Were: American Families and the Nostalgia Trap by  Stephanie Coontz that addresses this issue in detail (as regards the United States, at least), but it really boils down to a fundamental difference between Conservatives and Progressives, indeed the very difference that gives these two groups their names.  On the most basic level, Conservatives see society as degenerating from a "golden age" when everything was better, while Progressives see society as advancing from a dark past into a more enlightened future.  Hence the names: Conservatives want to Conserve as much as was good in the past as possible, slow down, halt, or ideally reverse the ongoing decay (as they see it), while Progressives want to speed up Progress and advance into the better future (as they see it) quickly.

So thinking that the American society was far better in the 1950s than it is today is an essential part of an American Conservative's worldview, no matter how historically inaccurate or revisionist that fantasy is.

To put it simply, trying to convince them that Leave it to Beaver wasn't a documentary is like tryi ...


I think for the average children the 50's-70's were pretty good times to be growing up. One could go outside and play for hours and if something happened there was always many houses to run for help and someone's mom was usually home. Fast food, sodas and candy were all considered special treats and you enjoyed them.  If you didn't have the coin for a slurpee you only had to find some bottles and return them for money. 

I feel people were socially better mannered then now and I this is a lot of what people miss.
 
2013-05-08 06:33:24 PM  

legion_of_doo: ciberido: Yes, but the big difference between the two groups is that Conservatives try to CLAIM they're the party of small government.  You very rarely find a Liberal or Democrat in the USA asserting that smaller government is what they're fighting for, and that the other side is bad because they want Big Government.

So what you say is true, but if you are trying to use it as a BSABSVR argument, it fails.

well, both sides claim to love "freedom"... but, collectively, each side only supports the freedoms that mesh with their agendas.

you cannot claim that any mere mortal or their org is less flawed than another unless you identify with some wing nut group.



I can certainly claim that Democrats are more honest about what their goals are than Republicans, because, you know, I just explained in my last post exactly how Democrats are more honest about "Big Government" than Republicans.  So if you reduce "more moral" to "more honest about their intentions," then yes, Democrats absolutely are more moral, and that's as objective a statement about which of two groups are more moral as anyone could make.

I do accept, however, that to most people, which of two groups is more moral is a much more complex question than "which of two groups is most honest about their intentions."

As for both sides claiming to love freedom, yes, that's true.  But that, in turn, is because freedom isn't as simple or one-dimensional as so many people like to believe.  The conflict arises when one group loves freedoms A, C, D, and F and a second group loves freedoms B, C, and E.  You can't have absolute freedom of A, and absolute freedom of B, and absolute freedom of C, etc., so a civil society has to balance them.  But of course you have different groups arguing about which freedoms are most important, while at the same time claiming that the other group "doesn't love freedom."
 
2013-05-08 06:40:53 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: colinspooky: hindsight

Exactly.  Leading a woman around on a leash, while it might not be your thing, is not illegal.


But it's been reported that it was a child who witnessed it. And even if it wasn't a child surely some sort of public nudity or lewd behavior in public laws would have applied. I'd think if a child was subjected to something as disturbing as a nude woman on a leash being walked like a dog, the police would not just walk away without talking to someone and documenting the incident, especially in an area where so many young girls were missing.
 
2013-05-08 06:45:21 PM  

Waldo Pepper: I feel people were socially better mannered then now and I this is a lot of what people miss.


Did you miss my quotation from 423 BC?  Every generation thinks that "kids these days" lack the good manners that their generation had growing up.  People have been making that claim long before Jesus was born.

There are all kinds of stats showing that people THINK crime is getting worse, when it's actually getting better.  It's perfectly natural for you to FEEL that people were socially better mannered then, it's human nature to feel that way, but please do not trust such feelings as they are not congruent with measurable reality.
 
2013-05-08 06:51:28 PM  
 
2013-05-08 07:03:04 PM  

ciberido: Waldo Pepper: I feel people were socially better mannered then now and I this is a lot of what people miss.

Did you miss my quotation from 423 BC?  Every generation thinks that "kids these days" lack the good manners that their generation had growing up.  People have been making that claim long before Jesus was born.

There are all kinds of stats showing that people THINK crime is getting worse, when it's actually getting better.  It's perfectly natural for you to FEEL that people were socially better mannered then, it's human nature to feel that way, but please do not trust such feelings as they are not congruent with measurable reality.


I saw what you wrote and I disagree with it in some areas. I feel we had a brief period in time where the average child had what one could consider the perfect childhood.
 
2013-05-08 07:39:12 PM  
yet_another_wumpus: And in other cop-hate threads, we are told in no uncertain terms the folly of allowing cops to enter our homes without a warrant.  I am wondering what type of warrant a single siting of a naked woman outside would justify and why cops would go see a judge over that.

It seems as simple as knocking on the door and asking what's up. If the guy says it's fine, make sure *she* comes to the door and says it's fine, too, and that the situation seems OK.

No warrant, no search. Talking to people and taking statements seems like the sort of thing a police officer should expect to be asked to do quite a bit over the course of a shift.
 
2013-05-08 07:41:31 PM  

Waldo Pepper: ciberido: Waldo Pepper: I feel people were socially better mannered then now and I this is a lot of what people miss.

Did you miss my quotation from 423 BC?  Every generation thinks that "kids these days" lack the good manners that their generation had growing up.  People have been making that claim long before Jesus was born.

There are all kinds of stats showing that people THINK crime is getting worse, when it's actually getting better.  It's perfectly natural for you to FEEL that people were socially better mannered then, it's human nature to feel that way, but please do not trust such feelings as they are not congruent with measurable reality.

I saw what you wrote and I disagree with it in some areas. I feel we had a brief period in time where the average white middle/upper-class child had what one could consider the perfect childhood.


FTFY
 
2013-05-08 07:43:47 PM  
Benevolent Misanthrope:
Hindsight, 20/20, that sort of thing  We know today it was bad.  2 weeks ago, we would have been vilifying the cops for going after people doing something totally legal, especially if the victim had said it was consensual.

ESPECIALLY? So if the victim hasn't said it's consensual, "Oh, I'm sure they're just having fun"?
 
2013-05-08 07:58:12 PM  
I see the tards are still acting like this a politics thread. Why don't you go shove your favorite political animal mascot up your ass, and leave the adults to talk about this case. There's a whole tab where you can display your stupidity like a peacock.
 
2013-05-08 08:00:19 PM  

sisterinarms: ciberido: HotWingConspiracy: SithLord: PunGent: SithLord: Another liberal who doesn't understand I used your side's talking points when stating how morally corrupt this country has become.

If you're not trolling, kindly pick a decade in this nation's history when you think we were less 'morally corrupt'.

Any decade prior to the 60s.

Leave it to Beaver wasn't a documentary.


"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." - misattributed to Socrates or Plato but actually from the play The Clouds, 423 BC

There's a book  The Way We Never Were: American Families and the Nostalgia Trap by  Stephanie Coontz that addresses this issue in detail (as regards the United States, at least), but it really boils down to a fundamental difference between Conservatives and Progressives, indeed the very difference that gives these two groups their names.  On the most basic level, Conservatives see society as degenerating from a "golden age" when everything was better, while Progressives see society as advancing from a dark past into a more enlightened future.  Hence the names: Conservatives want to Conserve as much as was good in the past as possible, slow down, halt, or ideally reverse the ongoing decay (as they see it), while Progressives want to speed up Progress and advance into the better future (as they see it) quickly.

So thinking that the American society was far better in the 1950s than it is today is an essential part of an American Conservative's worldview, no matter how historically inaccurate or revisionist that fantasy is.

To put it simply, trying to convince them that Leave it to Beaver wasn't a documentary is like tryi ...


Your grandmother is upset that her servants were set free?  Is your grandmother 170 years old?

Why do people lie so much on this website?
 
2013-05-08 08:02:43 PM  

ciberido: Waldo Pepper: I feel people were socially better mannered then now and I this is a lot of what people miss.

Did you miss my quotation from 423 BC?  Every generation thinks that "kids these days" lack the good manners that their generation had growing up.  People have been making that claim long before Jesus was born.

There are all kinds of stats showing that people THINK crime is getting worse, when it's actually getting better.  It's perfectly natural for you to FEEL that people were socially better mannered then, it's human nature to feel that way, but please do not trust such feelings as they are not congruent with measurable reality.


But there are statistics, and we can compare crime rates or other things in the 1950s with now.

B-b-b-b-ut Jim Crow!  Not every place in the country was Mississippi.
 
2013-05-08 08:07:16 PM  
Michelle Knight is angry at her family. Sounds like they could watch TV at times, and Berry, and Gina saw the vigils. There were no vigils for Knight, but the police thought she was a run away, as she was an adult at the time with family issues. Wonder if she thought no one cared, or her mother did cause so many problems.
 
2013-05-08 08:08:14 PM  

Cytokine Storm: Waldo Pepper: ciberido: Waldo Pepper: I feel people were socially better mannered then now and I this is a lot of what people miss.

Did you miss my quotation from 423 BC?  Every generation thinks that "kids these days" lack the good manners that their generation had growing up.  People have been making that claim long before Jesus was born.

There are all kinds of stats showing that people THINK crime is getting worse, when it's actually getting better.  It's perfectly natural for you to FEEL that people were socially better mannered then, it's human nature to feel that way, but please do not trust such feelings as they are not congruent with measurable reality.

I saw what you wrote and I disagree with it in some areas. I feel we had a brief period in time where the average white middle/upper-class child had what one could consider the perfect childhood.

FTFY


again you are wrong
 
2013-05-09 01:48:44 AM  

Cytokine Storm: Waldo Pepper: ciberido: Waldo Pepper: I feel people were socially better mannered then now and I this is a lot of what people miss.

Did you miss my quotation from 423 BC?  Every generation thinks that "kids these days" lack the good manners that their generation had growing up.  People have been making that claim long before Jesus was born.

There are all kinds of stats showing that people THINK crime is getting worse, when it's actually getting better.  It's perfectly natural for you to FEEL that people were socially better mannered then, it's human nature to feel that way, but please do not trust such feelings as they are not congruent with measurable reality.

I saw what you wrote and I disagree with it in some areas. I feel we had a brief period in time where the average white middle/upper-class child had what one could consider the perfect childhood.



No offense, but what statistics show is more important that what you feel.  Americans were not measurably safer or happier in the 1940s or 1950s than they are now.
 
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