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(Slate)   Meet William Hornaday, who after spending the first part of his life traveling the globe and killing just about every exotic animal he could find, helped found the American conservation and environmentalist movements   (slate.com) divider line 21
    More: Ironic, William Hornaday, Americans, exotic animals, conservations, Bronx Zoo, pinnipeds, environmentalists, Bass Ale  
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3976 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 May 2013 at 1:29 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-05-08 12:58:23 PM
10 votes:
It's *NOT* ironic, it's *EXPECTED*.

Sport hunters were the original conservationists.

There are 3 kinds of hunting:

1. Subsistence hunting.  This is hunting for food, ie., in order to survive.  It can also include hunting things that are eating your crops or your children.

2. Market hunting:  This is hunting for money.  It can be legal or illegal (poaching), and it can even be to collect a government provided bounty, but the motivation is cash.

3. Sport hunting.  This is hunting because you enjoy the challenge and the chase.  You may eat the animal afterwards, but the primary purpose is because you enjoy it.

The first two have resulted in the extinction and near extinction of countless animals.

The last one, sport hunting, has a track record of *INCREASING* the numbers of game animals.   The reason for this apparent paradox is that sport hunters want to keep on doing what they like, and they will invest time and money into things like habitat protection to ensure that they continue to have animals to hunt.
2013-05-08 01:53:14 PM
3 votes:
Watch it you fark monkeys that have no idea what you are talking about. Guiding hunts feeds my family. Hunters and fishermen have always been the biggest and most effective supporters of environmental and wildlife conservation. fark you all that say trophy hunting is bad. It puts food on the table and money in my pocket. My clients go home with memories and respect for the wilderness of Canada. And their permit fees are one of the leading contributors to wildlife management and research . Bc guide Outfitters are on the leading edge of DNA sequencing research for north American land mammals. How much out of pocket have you spent on conservation research? Do you.volunteer for this research? I do, along with hundreds of other guides. So fark off city folk. And keep your nose out of shiat you are clueless about.
2013-05-08 01:35:38 PM
3 votes:
Sounds like Teddy Roosevelt to me.
2013-05-08 01:50:43 PM
2 votes:

luxup: So if you hunt for the challenge and the chase why kill it?  I mean if your not going to eat it why not hit it with a paint ball or something?  Wouldn't that satisfy the drive to hunt or do you have to kill it for it to count?


In most safari hunts, the meat of the animal is distributed to local natives, who also make a fair bit of income from being guides, suppliers and other support for the hunting groups.

This has the effect of making it economically advantageous for the natives not to poach the animals, and to stop others from poaching the animals.  It also gives them an economic reason not to slash-and-burn the habitat into farmland.

The hunter gets a taxidermy trophy.  Meanwhile, due to economic incentives, the habitat is protected and the hunted species increases.  Everyone wins except the whiners.
2013-05-08 01:44:52 PM
2 votes:
dittybopper:
3. Sport hunting.  This is hunting because you enjoy the challenge and the chase.  You may eat the animal afterwards, but the primary purpose is because you enjoy it.

What sport hunting might look like...

mikehanback.typepad.com

Ahh, the thrill of the chase.

Relentlessly stalking baiting the prey....
mssparky.com
2013-05-08 01:43:03 PM
2 votes:

LordJiro: dittybopper: It's *NOT* ironic, it's *EXPECTED*.

Sport hunters were the original conservationists.

There are 3 kinds of hunting:

1. Subsistence hunting.  This is hunting for food, ie., in order to survive.  It can also include hunting things that are eating your crops or your children.

2. Market hunting:  This is hunting for money.  It can be legal or illegal (poaching), and it can even be to collect a government provided bounty, but the motivation is cash.

3. Sport hunting.  This is hunting because you enjoy the challenge and the chase making yourself feel better by killing big, 'scary' animals.  You may eat the animal afterwards, but the primary purpose is because you enjoy it. are insecure.

FTFY. Put away the high-powered rifles and shiat, take down an elephant or leopard with a farking spear, and THEN I'll believe it's "about the challenge".


Ironic that you chose those two animals. The skill in killing an elephant is that a bullet powerful enough to do it cleanly, doesnt lend itself to high capacity. Therefore you are dealing with single or double shot rifles to kill an animal whose 'kill box' is terribly small. An animal smart enough to know what your up to, quiet enough to surprise you, and fast enough to rush you making that kill shot all the smaller. Mess up the first shot, and you have an angry animal charging you at 30 mph. hooch the second, harder shot, and youre worm food.

Leopards are hard to hunt because they are elusive as hell. Tracking one down is ridiculously difficult and the window to engage it is literally seconds. They are also unpredictable. Sometimes they stalk you, sometimes they flee. Not being on your game is a fantastic way to end up on the bad end of a leopard, most of which are sharp.
2013-05-08 01:33:51 PM
2 votes:

dittybopper: It's *NOT* ironic, it's *EXPECTED*.

Sport hunters were the original conservationists.

There are 3 kinds of hunting:

1. Subsistence hunting.  This is hunting for food, ie., in order to survive.  It can also include hunting things that are eating your crops or your children.

2. Market hunting:  This is hunting for money.  It can be legal or illegal (poaching), and it can even be to collect a government provided bounty, but the motivation is cash.

3. Sport hunting.  This is hunting because you enjoy the challenge and the chase.  You may eat the animal afterwards, but the primary purpose is because you enjoy it.

The first two have resulted in the extinction and near extinction of countless animals.

The last one, sport hunting, has a track record of *INCREASING* the numbers of game animals.   The reason for this apparent paradox is that sport hunters want to keep on doing what they like, and they will invest time and money into things like habitat protection to ensure that they continue to have animals to hunt.


^^^^This right here^^^^.  And also see Alfred Nobel.
2013-05-08 01:27:32 PM
2 votes:
Killing animals for their heads is bullsh*t.
2013-05-08 06:16:59 PM
1 votes:
The level of reading comprehension and logic fail in this thread shouldn't surprise me, but it does.

dittybopper there's a reason you're highlighted in a spiffy green, keep up the good work, and good luck to littlebopper.
2013-05-08 05:42:15 PM
1 votes:
Oh look another thread with whiny liberals complaining about hunting while they have never hunted, or probably been in the woods. Want to know what you're going to do about sport hunting? Absolutely nothing, oh you'll remember how someone hunted a hippo or a grizzly bear and think mean thoughts, maybe say they have a small dick. That's all you'll do, because you won't actually do anything productive, you won't volunteer to help reintroduce spruce grouse, you won't hunt problem bears. You'd prefer to sit in your apartments and call the people that actually support wildlife conservation limp dicked pussies.
 
In short,
i.imgur.com
2013-05-08 04:41:57 PM
1 votes:

Mazzic518: dittybopper: Mazzic518: I can see Cooper's Cave Ale from my work

I like the vaginal entrance.

LMAO I am glad I am not the only one that thinks that.... I swear that place ever goes out of business it will be converted into a strip club lol...

/ending threadjack


My family is friends with the guy who owns it.  He's a big muzzleloader (or at least was).  I don't know him that well, but every couple of years I get a couple bombers of Radeau Red, and perhaps a Sagamore Stout.
2013-05-08 03:56:13 PM
1 votes:

dittybopper: Englebert Slaptyback: I have no problem with hunting animals that are common, as long as the hunters are competent enough to make humane kills. Hunting something that is not common (and becoming less so) doesn't seem like conservation to me, but I see your point about licenses and such.

At the turn of the last century, whitetails deer, black bears, and wild turkeys were all uncommon in most states, largely because of unregulated market and subsistence hunting.  It was sport hunters who pressed for the limited seasons and bag limits.

Because of that, it's now thought that there are more deer in North American *NOW* than in pre-Columbian times.


I don't know about bears and turkeys, but the explosion in the white tail population has far more to do with the massive switch of environment from woods and wild to agriculture and open space vastly increasing their habitat and food supply.  And it's not just speculated, there are counts and there is no doubt that the deer population is on the order of tens times what it was at the turn of the 19th century.  (yes yes citation needed I know, I don't have time, look it up yourself).
2013-05-08 03:04:13 PM
1 votes:

Englebert Slaptyback: dittybopper


Ain't the same.


Not the same? OF COURSE it's not the same. That's the point.

Going on a safari to Africa with the express purpose of killing exotic animals appears to be the antithesis of conservatism and tips toward selfishness: every exotic animal that is taken and taxidermied is one that someone else won't get to see in the wild. Not much conservation going on there.

I understand the need to keep deer population down to ensure there is enough food to support them, and obviously there are pest and nuisance animals, but the rare animal aspect is what bothers me. That's where I would prefer to see people just take a picture.


I think you may be confusing exotic animals with endangered animals.  Kudu and Spring bok are exotic animals to us, but in Africa, they are as common as, and at times more plentiful than, Whitetail deer here.  Most exotic animal hunts are for those deer type animals, and not big cats and elephants (though those hunts do happen too, just not as frequently).

Also, there are endangered species hunts (like certain breeds of Rhino) that you can go on, but those hunts entail using a tranquilizer rifles, and include an environmental scientist who uses the time when the hunter is getting his pic taken next to the unconscious animal to take measurements and tagging the animals for further research.

I understand the polarizing aspects of hunting, but I truly think egos and emotions get in the way on this conversation on both sides.  Outdoor sportsmen tend to do way more for conservation of the environment, even if it's just by purchasing a license, than most members of environmental groups do (PETA, and Greenpeace for example).
2013-05-08 02:36:04 PM
1 votes:

AngryJailhouseFistfark: dittybopper: The last one, sport hunting, has a track record of *INCREASING* the numbers of game animals. The reason for this apparent paradox is that sport hunters want to keep on doing what they like, and they will invest time and money into things like habitat protection to ensure that they continue to have animals to hunt.

Except that you don't hunt the raggedy-assed tick-infested lame herd-trailers when you hunt. You kill the biggest, strongest, most handsome animal you can find.


Actually, no, I don't.

Because I use primitive methods with limited range, and the fact that I don't use attractants or tree stands, generally, I end up taking the least wary animals.  Mostly, young does and yearling bucks.
2013-05-08 02:31:36 PM
1 votes:

dittybopper



Ain't the same.


Not the same? OF COURSE it's not the same. That's the point.

Going on a safari to Africa with the express purpose of killing exotic animals appears to be the antithesis of conservatism and tips toward selfishness: every exotic animal that is taken and taxidermied is one that someone else won't get to see in the wild. Not much conservation going on there.

I understand the need to keep deer population down to ensure there is enough food to support them, and obviously there are pest and nuisance animals, but the rare animal aspect is what bothers me. That's where I would prefer to see people just take a picture.
2013-05-08 02:16:39 PM
1 votes:

guygadbois: dittybopper: It's *NOT* ironic, it's *EXPECTED*.

Sport hunters were the original conservationists.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x308]
Would like a word with you...


Sure thing:

It was not until the nation became more prosperous that sport hunters would become the 
impetus for early conservation efforts.
Landowners and businessmen, who no longer had 
to hunt for subsistence, formed clubs of like-minded friends to promote comradeship, a 
kinship with the pioneer spirit, and ethical hunting practices. The first sportsman's club 
was the Carroll's Island Club, formed in 1832 near Baltimore, Maryland, largely for 
waterfowl hunting. In 1844 the New York Sportsmen's Club was formed, which drafted 
model game laws recommending closed hunting seasons on woodcock, quail, and deer as 
well as on trout fishing. These laws were passed by the Orange and Rockland Counties 
of New York in 1848.
Many of the club members were attorneys, and they personally 
sued violators to encourage compliance with the law. Eventually, hundreds of local 
sportsmen's clubs were formed across the country, and similar game laws were passed. In 
addition to game limits and seasons, some states outlawed use of dogs for hunting and 
hunting at night with lights, and others banned the use of traps, snares and pitfalls, which 
were common at the time. Maine was the first state to employ a game warden, in 1852.


John Muir was born in 1838, 6 years *AFTER* the first sport hunters in the US started their conservation efforts.  The first laws on it in New York were passed when he was 10 years old.

Sport hunters did it first.
2013-05-08 01:59:21 PM
1 votes:

Maud Dib: dittybopper:
3. Sport hunting.  This is hunting because you enjoy the challenge and the chase.  You may eat the animal afterwards, but the primary purpose is because you enjoy it.

What sport hunting might look like...

[mikehanback.typepad.com image 400x268]

Ahh, the thrill of the chase.

Relentlessly stalking baiting the prey....
[mssparky.com image 500x375]


Actually, this is what I use:

img236.imageshack.us

i45.tinypic.com

i48.tinypic.com

/Well *TECHNICALLY* that head I knapped is too small to hunt big game with in my state, but it's OK for small game and varmints like coyote.
//Am going to knap some bigger heads for the coming bow season
2013-05-08 01:52:49 PM
1 votes:

LordJiro


Put away the high-powered rifles and shiat, take down an elephant or leopard with a farking spear, and THEN I'll believe it's "about the challenge".


Or just take a goddamn picture.
2013-05-08 01:45:56 PM
1 votes:
Approves:

www.bradleymanning.org
2013-05-08 01:44:13 PM
1 votes:
Let's not forget that environmentalism used to mean "save some trees for your grandkids to chop down" and conservation used to mean "save some animals for your grandkids to kill."
2013-05-08 01:37:51 PM
1 votes:

Calmamity: Killing animals for their heads is bullsh*t.


Well they shouldnt have attached their heads to such tasty tasty meat.
 
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