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(ABC)   Let the survivor stalking begin: "Cleveland girl born in captivity eating popsicles"   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 254
    More: Asinine, Gina DeJesus  
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12153 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 May 2013 at 10:32 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-08 11:31:38 AM

Random Anonymous Blackmail: MelGoesOnTour


I'm so glad these folks were rescued. But, well, I'm finding it difficult to believe that, unless they were in chains, three adult females could not figure out a way to get away from that place over time. Something doesn't ring up.

I too have read about chains and ropes, but I also read in an article that one of the women was let out from time to time. I understand there might have been some mental manipulation or fear of revenge, but I have to agree, there are a few things that don't wrap up all nice and tidy.


It never ceases to amaze me that no matter how horrific a crime is, there are always a few people on Fark desperately looking for a way to assign blame to the victim, or at least to somehow excuse the behavior of the criminal.

What's going through your head here, exactly? You're thinking, what, maybe one or more of these women actually dug being chained in a basement and used as a sex slave for ten years? Maybe the women came from abusive families, and by chaining them up in a basement and using them as sex slaves for ten years these sick bastards were doing them some kind of favor? Maybe those teenage girls willingly chose to be chained up in a basement and used as sex slaves for ten years? Maybe those guys bought the girls from their parents fair and square?

Somehow, in your mind, these women MUST have deserved what happened to them because they didn't do what you imagine you would do in a situation you cannot possibly even begin to imagine. Is that what you think? Seriously? Or maybe you think the media is making a mountain out of a molehill, because come on, lots of women would probably like to be chained up in a basement as a sex slave for ten years?

What the fark is WRONG with you?
 
2013-05-08 11:31:39 AM

Random Anonymous Blackmail: karmachameleon


Random Anonymous Blackmail: MelGoesOnTour


I'm so glad these folks were rescued. But, well, I'm finding it difficult to believe that, unless they were in chains, three adult females could not figure out a way to get away from that place over time. Something doesn't ring up.

I too have read about chains and ropes, but I also read in an article that one of the women was let out from time to time. I understand there might have been some mental manipulation or fear of revenge, but I have to agree, there are a few things that don't wrap up all nice and tidy.

Seriously? Look up Stockholm Syndrome. Get back to us once you've informed yourself.

I know exactly what Stockholm Syndrome is. There is no reason to assume I lack this knowledge because I am not ready to accept only one side of the story being fed to us by the media when the police have released few details.
Gather information,think for yourself and then make a conclusion before jumping to them.


You are a nice and smart person. People enjoy your company and appreciate your opinions.
 
2013-05-08 11:31:56 AM
I know the media and the public "Have to Know", but why can't we just leave these poor victims alone?  If it were me, I would want to be out of the spotlight and take time to recover from this nightmare.  We should just leave them alone and let them tell us about it when (and if) they are ready too.
 
2013-05-08 11:32:44 AM

nekom: cig-mkr: These three guys are another good reason to bring back public hangings.

I don't know, there's some poetic justice in the knowledge that they will now be housed in a cage. Forever. Seriously, this is EASILY aggravated kidnapping and aggravated rape and lord knows what other charges they can stack, and absolutely NO mitigation whatsoever. This is 3 consecutive life sentence territory. Let them live a long and MISERABLE existence, while their victims can now at least have something of a life. Oh and unlike the victims, there is NO hope of reprieve, NO chance of escape. They will be condemned. Abandon hope.


I think it is important to note that, despite what is almost certainly a horrific decade, these women are still young and can have a life (hopefully, and likely with LOTS of therapy). I was discussing this with my partner last night and we agreed: we are against capital punishment for murder (singular and unplanned), but these three gentlemen appear to require torture AND THEN execution. Keeping somebody in purgatory for a decade is a special kind of evil. It's good that law Isn't subjective, but it's tempting to imagine excepting certain people.
 
2013-05-08 11:33:23 AM

Random Anonymous Blackmail: I know exactly what Stockholm Syndrome is. There is no reason to assume I lack this knowledge because I am not ready to accept only one side of the story being fed to us by the media when the police have released few details.
Gather information,think for yourself and then make a conclusion before jumping to them.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-08 11:33:41 AM
how do i even start to guess how often this has happened
and in 10 years someone is bound to have taken pictures, film etc.

face recognition software
bdsm sites

might need to be done

how do i even start to guess how often this has happened
and in 10 years someone is bound to have taken pictures, film etc.
 
2013-05-08 11:34:20 AM

Grumpy Cat: My husband's daughter has been missing since 1999. This story just brings up all your worst fears. But it makes you wonder if she's still alive. We haven't a clue.

/not so cool story


I'm going to break character for a minute here.
I don't know you from Adam.

If you are serious, please don't turn to Fark for help. Fark is great for feel-good stories, but there isn't the same urgency here that there is on other sites. If you want any help at all, I'd recommend Reddit.

The overlap of users between Fark and Reddit is significant. I ask any Reddit users who are active here to spread this story to Reddit as well. This means there may need to be additional details provided (such as you provided later in this thread). A picture and age would also be very important.

The status of your husband's child may never be fully known, but engaging Farkers to find her is not going to help. Reddit, and (oh god) 4chan are where actual action will occur.

May God bless you, your husband, his daughter, and her mother.
 
2013-05-08 11:35:03 AM

Theaetetus: Random Anonymous Blackmail: MelGoesOnTour


I'm so glad these folks were rescued. But, well, I'm finding it difficult to believe that, unless they were in chains, three adult females could not figure out a way to get away from that place over time. Something doesn't ring up.

I too have read about chains and ropes, but I also read in an article that one of the women was let out from time to time. I understand there might have been some mental manipulation or fear of revenge, but I have to agree, there are a few things that don't wrap up all nice and tidy.

In a remarkably coincidental speech given one week ago, before these women were found, Elizabeth Smart discussed why some human trafficking victims don't run:
Smart said she "felt so dirty and so filthy" after she was raped by her captor, and she understands why someone wouldn't run "because of that alone."

Smart spoke at a Johns Hopkins human trafficking forum, saying she was raised in a religious household and recalled a school teacher who spoke once about abstinence and compared sex to chewing gum.

"I thought, 'Oh, my gosh, I'm that chewed up piece of gum, nobody re-chews a piece of gum, you throw it away.' And that's how easy it is to feel like you know longer have worth, you know longer have value," Smart said. "Why would it even be worth screaming out? Why would it even make a difference if you are rescued? Your life still has no value."



In another remarkable coincidence, on Monday, my son's high school devoted a significant part of the school-day to learning about and discussing human trafficking.  And this is a Cleveland-area high school.  The things they had discussed really hit home when they watched the news Monday night.
 
2013-05-08 11:35:32 AM

cwolf20: Theaetetus: orclover: The kids are farked.  The kidnap victims are farked.  The only people not farked is the kidnappers because they will serve less time in jail than their victims.  They should be on the court house porch being burned at the stake.

Wouldn't that be much less time then?

jail first, then burn. A little at a time.  Heal them, burn again?


Cant we burn them WHILE they serve time?  Maybe give them a really chronic case of shingles?
 
2013-05-08 11:37:31 AM

vudutek: Speaking of privacy, I wonder if they got Tarnaev buried while the media has been distracted? If not, they missed a perfect opportunity.





Funny you should mention that: USAF vet wants dead Boston jihadi bomber buried in her National Cemetery burial plot
 
2013-05-08 11:38:29 AM

starbuckisagirl: CNN earlier aired some footage from a local affiliate of Amanda's first phone call to her grandmother.  They were in grandma's living room and obviously had her permission but I doubt they had Amanda's.  You could hear every word both sides said.  I found it really disgusting to invade on such a private moment..



Did you turn it off? No? Well, that's why they aired it.

/Not being a jackass.
//The media likes high ratings, too
 
2013-05-08 11:38:31 AM
One thing I ask everyone to do is when a Amber Alert goes out, share it as soon as you can, via Facebook, Tweet, text, whatever. The sooner the public gets this information and the more vigilant they are the chances of recovering the person is much greater.

Just this past weekend, there was a kid in my area that was kidnapped, the Amber Alert went out immediately and may be the reason they found him alive. The monster harmed him but spared his life.

Another thing parents should be aware of is Code Adam. If you are in a department store and your child is missing, don't mess around. Tell an employee, they are supposed to be trained to shut the store down, and don't allow anyone in or out.
Your best bet is to head to the nearest exit and look around outside.

Non parents can help out too. Don't just sit there and watch the show, you may actually save a child by being proactive.

I once helped reunite a child to his family at the beach. I saw a mother crying hysterically that her boy was missing, and the father was trying to calm her, he seemed to be in shock. I had to do something so I ran down the boardwalk. I figured the kid is in the ocean, on the beach, or someone is abducting him. I found him about an 1/8 of a mile down in the sand. I'm sure he probably would have made it back but to them eventually but no one knew that at that time. It was a good feeling to help them, they were very grateful and I would hope someone would do that for my kid, if so needed.
 
2013-05-08 11:38:55 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: HatMadeOfAss: HotIgneous Intruder: Survivor?
Nobody got killed, subby.

Semantics.  It's the same reason we call POWs survivors.  Physical death isn't the only kind of situation one survives from.  Mental abuse and torture can be harrowing situations, and those that escape can rightfully say they survived.

Sir Mirriam and Mr. Weber perhaps have explained it best:

sur·vived sur·viv·ing

intransitive verb
1: to remain alive or in existence : live on
2: to continue to function or prosper

transitive verb
1: to remain alive after the death of <he is survived by his wife>
2: to continue to exist or live after <survived the earthquake>
3: to continue to function or prosper despite : <they survived many hardships>

tl:DR

/mine was simpler and more direct
//AND FIRST!
///HAH!!!!!!



i.imgur.com

Congrats!
 
2013-05-08 11:39:40 AM

lewismarktwo: Nah. Too easy. Life solitary with 'accidental' exposure to inmates every year on the anniversary of the girls' disappearances.


No no no, guys... This dropping them off in North Korea thing is a WAY better idea.I'm telling you. Why should we have to pay to clothe and feed them? Why should they have access to toilets, gyms, libraries and TV? NO. I'm telling you, North Korea labor camp. Perhaps this is a way for the US to mends some fences?
 
2013-05-08 11:39:45 AM

Random Anonymous Blackmail: MelGoesOnTour


I'm so glad these folks were rescued. But, well, I'm finding it difficult to believe that, unless they were in chains, three adult females could not figure out a way to get away from that place over time. Something doesn't ring up.

I too have read about chains and ropes, but I also read in an article that one of the women was let out from time to time. I understand there might have been some mental manipulation or fear of revenge, but I have to agree, there are a few things that don't wrap up all nice and tidy.


Um, they were in chains. Or at least, chains were found in the basement.

You try being a kidnapped teenage rape victim/sex slave chained in the basement for multiple years and see how well you deal with it.

Anyone know if the "disturbed" dirt they found did in fact contain a body?
 
2013-05-08 11:41:32 AM

Stan Lee's Ghost: Fark yuu and your autostarting videos.


My thoughts exactly. Pissed me off even more that I couldn't stop the commercial or turn it down in window.
 
2013-05-08 11:42:47 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-08 11:43:25 AM
Time to bring back Worst Person in the World:

http://mediamatters.org/video/2013/05/07/limbaugh-connects-cleveland- k idnappers-to-obama/193946
 
2013-05-08 11:44:33 AM
orclover:   The only people not farked is the kidnappers because they will serve less time in jail than their victims.  They should be on the court house porch being burned at the stake.  But that would shatter the illusion of civility we have created.

While I do like the idea of burning them at the stake, I think they'll probably been spending the rest of their lives in jail and rightfully so.  If the reports are accurate, they will each have at least 3 counts of kidnapping (if not more), illegal confinement, multiple counts of aggravated rape, probably murder charges due to the miscarriages and other missing women, etc.   Most judges would probably make them serves the sentences consecutively.

/I think general population might be good for them.
 
2013-05-08 11:44:41 AM

HatMadeOfAss: Jim from Saint Paul: HatMadeOfAss: HotIgneous Intruder: Survivor?
Nobody got killed, subby.

Semantics.  It's the same reason we call POWs survivors.  Physical death isn't the only kind of situation one survives from.  Mental abuse and torture can be harrowing situations, and those that escape can rightfully say they survived.

Sir Mirriam and Mr. Weber perhaps have explained it best:

sur·vived sur·viv·ing

intransitive verb
1: to remain alive or in existence : live on
2: to continue to function or prosper

transitive verb
1: to remain alive after the death of <he is survived by his wife>
2: to continue to exist or live after <survived the earthquake>
3: to continue to function or prosper despite : <they survived many hardships>

tl:DR

/mine was simpler and more direct
//AND FIRST!
///HAH!!!!!!


[i.imgur.com image 250x327]

Congrats!


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-05-08 11:47:04 AM

Deucednuisance: Time to bring back Worst Person in the World:

http://mediamatters.org/video/2013/05/07/limbaugh-connects-cleveland- k idnappers-to-obama/193946


He's just a shock jock doing shock jock stuff !!!!

..... who happens to be invited as the keynote speaker for the largest conservative conference in America and who every GOP politician is absolutely terrified of distancing from, much less publicly admonishing as an unequivocal grotesque human being. .
 
2013-05-08 11:47:53 AM

Deucednuisance: Time to bring back Worst Person in the World:

http://mediamatters.org/video/2013/05/07/limbaugh-connects-cleveland- k idnappers-to-obama/193946


Because brown people?

/no srs, give me cliff notes
 
2013-05-08 11:48:34 AM
My favorite part of this whole story is when they interviewed the rescuer and he said "I knew something was wrong when a pretty little white girl ran into a black man's arms." (at about 2:35)
 
2013-05-08 11:48:34 AM
Pics or it didn't happen.

//Too soon?
 
2013-05-08 11:48:47 AM
even money these guys were Goreans. if there's any hateful cult that needs to be confronted with violent prejudice, it's that one.
 
2013-05-08 11:49:03 AM
For cases like this, there is no reason to waste any time or resources. 3 bullets would serve justice and there would be plenty of volunteers wanting to carry out the executions... and even pay for the ammo!
 
2013-05-08 11:49:41 AM
gglibertine


Random Anonymous Blackmail: MelGoesOnTour


It never ceases to amaze me that no matter how horrific a crime is, there are always a few people on Fark desperately looking for a way to assign blame to the victim, or at least to somehow excuse the behavior of the criminal.


Did I say I was blaming the victim, No I did not. Did I say that I was excusing a criminal for their behavior, no. You have heard the rule of assumptions, please be respectful of that. It is funny of all the intelligent people on FARK, so many of them are willing run frantically for their pitchforks and torches because the media is great at smacking the bees nest and watch the lemmings fall into line.

May I be wrong, yes. May i be right, yes. The fact is you don't know, but much like you I have an opinion, and in my opinion something does not add up.
 
2013-05-08 11:49:42 AM

Graffito: Grumpy Cat: My husband's daughter has been missing since 1999. This story just brings up all your worst fears. But it makes you wonder if she's still alive. We haven't a clue.

/not so cool story

I am so sorry.


I don't think your apology for your crime will soften the jury on the verdict one bit.  IT just doesn't seem sincere.
 
2013-05-08 11:52:43 AM
Kirzania: nekom: These 3 brothers deserve to be sent to North Korea.

I think this is something you should bring up to your congressman. I think it would be quite suitable for a lot of these farktards to be dropped off in the hills of NK. No one is going to ask for them to be released. Ever.


For some reason, the first thing that popped in my head was thousands of violent inmates parachuting into NK. Now that would be funny, maybe even give them weapons and see what happens.
 
2013-05-08 11:52:57 AM

Random Anonymous Blackmail: May I be wrong, yes. May i be right, yes. The fact is you don't know, but much like you I have an opinion, and in my opinion something does not add up.


You didn't answer my question. I repeat, what the fark is wrong with you?
 
2013-05-08 11:53:35 AM

FatherChaos: My favorite part of this whole story is when they interviewed the rescuer and he said "I knew something was wrong when a pretty little white girl ran into a black man's arms." (at about 2:35)


Dude, where have you been?  My favorite right now is this one.  Mind you, not because I'm a pompous racist but because I think this guy is awesome and he needed a song.
 
2013-05-08 11:55:57 AM

Random Anonymous Blackmail: gglibertine


Random Anonymous Blackmail: MelGoesOnTour


It never ceases to amaze me that no matter how horrific a crime is, there are always a few people on Fark desperately looking for a way to assign blame to the victim, or at least to somehow excuse the behavior of the criminal.

Did I say I was blaming the victim, No I did not. Did I say that I was excusing a criminal for their behavior, no. You have heard the rule of assumptions, please be respectful of that. It is funny of all the intelligent people on FARK, so many of them are willing run frantically for their pitchforks and torches because the media is great at smacking the bees nest and watch the lemmings fall into line.

May I be wrong, yes. May i be right, yes. The fact is you don't know, but much like you I have an opinion, and in my opinion something does not add up.


I'll take the frantic 911 caller word for it when she's suggesting she's been kidnapped and raped.

Hey, call me a sap. I can take the heat.
 
2013-05-08 11:56:15 AM

cig-mkr: These three guys are another good reason to bring back public hangings.


Yes I agree.  Or perhaps these guys should be repeatedly pounded in the a$$ on a daily basis for the rest of their lives.  Maybe that would deter similarly minded freaks from doing this in the future?
 
2013-05-08 11:56:32 AM

derpy: Stan Lee's Ghost: Fark yuu and your autostarting videos.


Auto starting videos are a worse crime than... than.. the subject at hand.
 
2013-05-08 11:57:19 AM
Lollipop165

Um, they were in chains. Or at least, chains were found in the basement.

I have a chain in my garage, it was there when I got there, it means nothing.
 
2013-05-08 11:57:30 AM

ReverendJasen: FTA: "It's a good possibility one of them is [the father]," Tomba said.

Are they stupid?  Unless she gave birth to a reincarnated female Jesus, it's approximately a 100% possibility one of these three cocksuckers is the father.  She didn't leave captivity for 10 years.


Actually, they could have been whoring these women out. This is going to get a lot worse when we get more info.
 
2013-05-08 11:57:53 AM
you'd think they'd be getting her some macdonals.
 
2013-05-08 11:58:47 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: Because brown people?


Kinda sorta....

Jim from Saint Paul: /no srs, give me cliff notes


It's hard to tell in a way, because it's his usual stream of unconsciousness, but I think he's trying to say that since these guys are Hispanic, they kidnapped the girls on purpose to make Welfare Babies to steal money from Real `Merkins and are therefore, obviously, Obama supporters.

The dude can't have handlers, `cause they would have darted him by now:

www.usnews.com
 
2013-05-08 11:58:55 AM
Happy to have been raised by wolves.
 
2013-05-08 11:59:05 AM
She has her Daddy's eyes.
 
2013-05-08 11:59:59 AM

Kirzania: nekom: These 3 brothers deserve to be sent to North Korea.

I think this is something you should bring up to your congressman. I think it would be quite suitable for a lot of these farktards to be dropped off in the hills of NK. No one is going to ask for them to be released. Ever.


Dropped off in NK? I say we give them the Lao Che treatment
 
2013-05-08 12:00:49 PM
gglibertine


Random Anonymous Blackmail: May I be wrong, yes. May i be right, yes. The fact is you don't know, but much like you I have an opinion, and in my opinion something does not add up.

You didn't answer my question. I repeat, what the fark is wrong with you?


So because I don't share your opinion there is something wrong with me?

/fall into line citizen.
 
2013-05-08 12:01:01 PM

muwaryer: Theaetetus: Random Anonymous Blackmail: MelGoesOnTour


I'm so glad these folks were rescued. But, well, I'm finding it difficult to believe that, unless they were in chains, three adult females could not figure out a way to get away from that place over time. Something doesn't ring up.

I too have read about chains and ropes, but I also read in an article that one of the women was let out from time to time. I understand there might have been some mental manipulation or fear of revenge, but I have to agree, there are a few things that don't wrap up all nice and tidy.

In a remarkably coincidental speech given one week ago, before these women were found, Elizabeth Smart discussed why some human trafficking victims don't run:
Smart said she "felt so dirty and so filthy" after she was raped by her captor, and she understands why someone wouldn't run "because of that alone."

Smart spoke at a Johns Hopkins human trafficking forum, saying she was raised in a religious household and recalled a school teacher who spoke once about abstinence and compared sex to chewing gum.

"I thought, 'Oh, my gosh, I'm that chewed up piece of gum, nobody re-chews a piece of gum, you throw it away.' And that's how easy it is to feel like you know longer have worth, you know longer have value," Smart said. "Why would it even be worth screaming out? Why would it even make a difference if you are rescued? Your life still has no value."


In another remarkable coincidence, on Monday, my son's high school devoted a significant part of the school-day to learning about and discussing human trafficking.  And this is a Cleveland-area high school.  The things they had discussed really hit home when they watched the news Monday night.


And one more interesting coincidence: The center for Missing and Exploited Children had their annual dinner last night where they gave their Hope Award to Jaycee Dugard. She is probably the one person who understands best what these women went through. She took the millions of compensation money paid by California and created a foundation to help found kidnap victims recover and also help the victims and their families reconnect and move forward. I hope that these three women and their families take advantage of the wisdom she and her family and the experts can offer them.

That is one sorority nobody wants to belong to, but at least other recovering victims can relate to someone who has been through something similar.
 
2013-05-08 12:01:10 PM
inclemency:
I think it is important to note that, despite what is almost certainly a horrific decade, these women are still young and can have a life (hopefully, and likely with LOTS of therapy). I was discussing this with my partner last night and we agreed: we are against capital punishment for murder (singular and unplanned), but these three gentlemen appear to require torture AND THEN execution. Keeping somebody in purgatory for a decade is a special kind of evil. It's good that law Isn't subjective, but it's tempting to imagine excepting certain people.

Oh my yes it's tempting, which is exactly why the law should not be based on emotions (like my North Korea idea, which was not a serious suggestion of course), but rather the facts of each case.  It should all be clinical.  They will receive a fair trial, should be a pretty slam dunk case, and they will be sentenced to live in a cage forever, that's good enough.  They have certainly forfeited their right to ever live among us again.

And yes, it would be hard to call this story in any way good, but at least they have a shot at making a life now.  I hope there's some assets to seize from the 3 brothers to help pay for all the therapy they will need, but they are alive and free now, that's better than finding them dead.
 
2013-05-08 12:01:13 PM

On the Side: FatherChaos: My favorite part of this whole story is when they interviewed the rescuer and he said "I knew something was wrong when a pretty little white girl ran into a black man's arms." (at about 2:35)

Dude, where have you been?  My favorite right now is this one.  Mind you, not because I'm a pompous racist but because I think this guy is awesome and he needed a song.



Hero Charles Ramsey " DEAD GIVEAWAY song....best one of the Autotunes...
 
2013-05-08 12:01:44 PM

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Lollipop165

Um, they were in chains. Or at least, chains were found in the basement.

I have a chain in my garage, it was there when I got there, it means nothing.


Except for the fact that 3 women who have been missing for 10 years claim that they were shackled in the house. Yeah, then I'd say it means something.
 
2013-05-08 12:02:45 PM
99.998er: Then of course there is the Stockholm Syndrome, but I am sure that in just 10 years it would not have time to settle in with them. But you are right, something doesn't ring up. I am guessing they enjoyed being beaten and raped.

Da fuq?


i580.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-08 12:04:18 PM

Random Anonymous Blackmail: May I be wrong, yes. May i be right, yes. The fact is you don't know, but much like you I have an opinion, and in my opinion something does not add up.


And in my opinion, there is something wrong with the way your head is wired.

There's treatment available.

Seek it.

But before they dope you up, perhaps you could enlighten us: what, exactly doesn't "add up" and what do you "think" it indicates as an alternative, more accurate description of what occurred?
 
2013-05-08 12:04:18 PM

Maud Dib: 99.998er: Then of course there is the Stockholm Syndrome, but I am sure that in just 10 years it would not have time to settle in with them. But you are right, something doesn't ring up. I am guessing they enjoyed being beaten and raped.

Da fuq?


[i580.photobucket.com image 197x151]


They were being sarcastic.
 
2013-05-08 12:04:40 PM

gglibertine: Random Anonymous Blackmail: MelGoesOnTour

What the fark is WRONG with you?


What the fark is wrong with you? You come across as one of these mentally disturbed individuals who see every question as a challenge and every act of doubt as a betrayal of your entire worldview. There is a term of that, it is called paranoia.

It is natural, normal, and healthy for people to seek comprehension in a time of crisis. Undoubtedly there is more to this story, there always is. It is unlikely that future facts would change the culpability of these men. Nevertheless, curiosity is a good thing and should not be met with the fear and loathing expressed in your post.
 
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