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(LA Times)   In the last 20 years, gun murders have dropped almost by half. Fark: Americans believe gun crime is rising. Thanks, American media   (latimes.com) divider line 832
    More: Followup, Americans, Bureau of Justice Statistics, gun murders, spree killers, Pew Research Center, Small Arms Survey  
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6214 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 May 2013 at 9:41 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-08 10:03:31 AM  

bdub77: scottydoesntknow: It's all video games fault!

[images.huffingtonpost.com image 850x637]

That's because in 1996 a video game cost $20 bucks, now it's $70 bucks plus $30 worth of 'extras' they sell after you've bought the game.


So you're saying they've spent so much on new games that they can't afford bullets for their guns?

/Games cost the same now as they did back then
 
2013-05-08 10:03:56 AM  
Gun manufacturers are as liable as promoting gun crime fear as the media. In fact, they rely on gun crime fear to sell their "self-defense" products to those who simply do not need them.
 
2013-05-08 10:03:56 AM  

Endive Wombat: Dusk-You-n-Me: Endive Wombat: I understand why the left likes to keep those numbers in the stat, because it bolsters their message, but it is disingenuous.

Those people are not any less dead and a gun was not any less involved. Bolster has nothing to do with it.

Fair enough, but suicide is not a crime.  Buttttt...trying to use incorrectly inflated gun death stats as a basis for legislating tighter gun control measures is wrong.


How is it inflated? We want less deaths. I don't follow your logic. Less suicides = less deaths.
 
2013-05-08 10:04:11 AM  

CPennypacker: GoldSpider: CPennypacker: Overused meme is overused

Successful troll is successful.  Shame on me  :(

Hey you know where I fall on the issue. We've done this before. Let a man make a joke.


I doubt that.  Nobody in favor of gun rights talks the way you do.

I have you fav'd in derp grey for a reason.
 
2013-05-08 10:04:16 AM  
The United States Empire will last forever and people will only get safer.
 
2013-05-08 10:04:27 AM  

scottydoesntknow: It's all video games fault!

[images.huffingtonpost.com image 850x637]



i586.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-08 10:04:31 AM  

fluffy2097: mrshowrules: The U.S. firearm homicide rate is 20 times higher than the combined rates of 22 countries that are our peers in wealth and population.

Is that per capita?

We have a shiatload more people then 22 other countries. Of course the raw numbers will be higher.

 
2013-05-08 10:04:52 AM  

KJUW89: We need to set some expectations as I see it.  Just like world peace can never be achieved, we will never be 100% from gun violence.  We just need to determine how much we can tolerate at the expense of encroaching on the 2nd Amendment.


The best way to address gun violence is the focus on the violence part. (Since if you remove the gun from the equation somebody is still getting stabbed or beaten to death) by addressing our shiatty justice system, war on drugs, income inequality, systemic racism, cyclical poverty, etc. It'd improve everyone's lives and drop our violence across the board.

I never understood the obsession with 'gun violence' personally. Is being stabbed to death somehow more morally desirable than being shot to death?
 
2013-05-08 10:05:00 AM  

pdee: CCW in 1993:


Your graphic shows Alabama as a shall issue state. Alabama is not and never was shall issue.
 
2013-05-08 10:05:01 AM  
BUT GUNS!!!1!
 
2013-05-08 10:05:08 AM  

mrshowrules: Statistically comparing to the rest of the world, it remains a bloodbath.


Syria would like a word with you.

If you want to go back a few years, Rwanda as well. Millions. MILLIONS killed in a genocide. Mostly with machetes and hatchets.
 
2013-05-08 10:05:24 AM  

pedrop357: CPennypacker: GoldSpider: CPennypacker: Overused meme is overused

Successful troll is successful.  Shame on me  :(

Hey you know where I fall on the issue. We've done this before. Let a man make a joke.

I doubt that.  Nobody in favor of gun rights talks the way you do.

I have you fav'd in derp grey for a reason.


I'm not in favor of gun rights

I don't have you fav'd at all for a reason. Who the fark are you?
 
2013-05-08 10:05:33 AM  

someonelse: There are state laws banning alcohol sales to people with X number of DUI citations.


[citation needed]
 
2013-05-08 10:05:44 AM  

GnomePaladin: Maine has a shiatton of guns space and few gun laws people and yet their murder rate is pretty much nearly at the bottom of all states for gun crimes.


So you mean gun crime is independent of the type and prevalence of guns and is rooted in other factors?  Hmm, maybe we should start looking at those other factors then, donchathink?
 
2013-05-08 10:05:48 AM  

pedrop357: CPennypacker: GoldSpider: CPennypacker: Overused meme is overused

Successful troll is successful.  Shame on me  :(

Hey you know where I fall on the issue. We've done this before. Let a man make a joke.

I doubt that.  Nobody in favor of gun rights talks the way you do.

I have you fav'd in derp grey for a reason.


I always thought of derp as more puce in colour.
 
2013-05-08 10:06:09 AM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: Let's see.. more areas with more gun control in last 20 years.. gun crime drops. Funny that.


I can imagin how you could be more wrong.
 
2013-05-08 10:06:26 AM  

pdee: CCW in 1993:
[www.gun-nuttery.com image 606x509]

2011:
[www.gun-nuttery.com image 614x509]


Does this have any thing to do with the stats in TFA?


More likely, the change in concealed weapons permit statutes is not related to the change in rates of crime.


It cant be denied that the bloodbath the anti-gun crowded predicted when states started isuing has not occured.

You are correct.
 
2013-05-08 10:07:01 AM  

mrshowrules: The U.S. firearm homicide rate is 20 times higher than the combined rates of 22 countries that are our peers in wealth and population.

A declining rate doesn't mean jack shiat.


Good to know.  If it ever starts to rise for some reason, can we count on you to dismiss that as well?
 
2013-05-08 10:07:13 AM  

sammyk: Interesting thing about background checks. 20 years ago the Brady act was signed into law implementing actual background checks. Lo and behold 20 years later gun violence is cut in half. But I am sure there will be someone here shortly to tell us the 2 things are in no way connected.




The ban on "Assault Weapons" and high capacity magazines expired so I can claim that more people being able to arm and defend themselves with previously banned weapons contributed. to the decline.

I think it would be smarter to look at the decline in gang turf wars and drug violence during that time than gun laws or lack there of. It won't serve your agenda but it is closer to the truth.

Most "gun control" legislation is nothing more than polticians jerking off a particular constituency(If we just get rid fo those guns with flash suppressors, bayonet lugs and pistol grip stocks we will all be safer nonsense). Normally that constituency is the soccer mom for the children crowd or those who also need government to protect them from the evils of large soft drinks and trans fats is also afraid the 80 million lawful gun owners.

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-05-08 10:07:14 AM  

nekom: They were both written in the same general era, and they are both pretty much anachronisms.


There is a process for revising them as well.  What's the holdup?
 
2013-05-08 10:07:18 AM  

mrshowrules: pedrop357: CPennypacker: GoldSpider: CPennypacker: Overused meme is overused

Successful troll is successful.  Shame on me  :(

Hey you know where I fall on the issue. We've done this before. Let a man make a joke.

I doubt that.  Nobody in favor of gun rights talks the way you do.

I have you fav'd in derp grey for a reason.

I always thought of derp as more puce in colour.


Chartreuse, a color I had not seen. Looks to me like yellow and green.
 
2013-05-08 10:07:19 AM  
Fark Gun thread:

Wash,
rinse,
repeat
 
2013-05-08 10:07:29 AM  

I_C_Weener: scottydoesntknow: It's all video games fault!

[images.huffingtonpost.com image 850x637]


[i586.photobucket.com image 850x637]


Well that's obvious. I mean even I murdered a few people back in the day because of my frustrations with Internet Explorer. Thank god Firefox quelled my murderous rage.
 
2013-05-08 10:07:43 AM  
DOESNT MATTER BAN EVERYTHING TO BE SURE.
 
2013-05-08 10:07:46 AM  

vpb: Yes, those tough anti gun laws in some parts are starting to pay off.

Now we need to expand on a winning strategy.

/look at where the gun violence is highest


Odd how the FBI disagrees with your politically posted sites...
 
2013-05-08 10:08:13 AM  

GanjSmokr: someonelse: There are state laws banning alcohol sales to people with X number of DUI citations.

[citation needed]


Background checks at the distributor/liquor store?  People really thinks this happens?
 
2013-05-08 10:08:42 AM  

mrshowrules: pedrop357: CPennypacker: GoldSpider: CPennypacker: Overused meme is overused

Successful troll is successful.  Shame on me  :(

Hey you know where I fall on the issue. We've done this before. Let a man make a joke.

I doubt that.  Nobody in favor of gun rights talks the way you do.

I have you fav'd in derp grey for a reason.

I always thought of derp as more puce in colour.


Well with the dark grey, it allows for easy ignoring, but I can go back and read what was said if someone else is responding to them and I wish to respond to that person and wish to know more about the context.
 
2013-05-08 10:08:45 AM  

Endive Wombat: Since there is no other place to say this:

I wish that folks would stop lumping suicide by gun into gun death stats.  My reason is this: If someone is determined to kill themselves, they are going to use whatever means necessary, and all the gun laws in the world will not stop someone who has decided to off themselves.



Actually, that's not the case at all.  When guns are banned, people don't just switch to the next method.  The rate of suicide actually decreases.  Why, because of all those means, nothings quite as quick as  a gun.  Even slowing down the rate at which they can get a gun means that people think it out and decide  not to kill themselves.
 
2013-05-08 10:09:15 AM  

spickus: pdee: CCW in 1993:

Your graphic shows Alabama as a shall issue state. Alabama is not and never was shall issue.


In practice, they are shall issue.
 
2013-05-08 10:09:23 AM  
Violence has been on a decline throughout human history. The chances of dying at the hands of another person is quite a bit lower than at any time in history. Ted Talk link
We as a species are becoming less violent and more sensitive to violence so that many perceive the violence that does occur to be increasing rather than decreasing.
 
2013-05-08 10:10:09 AM  
There are the frequent massacres to consider. We're not supposed to talk about them because it's very insensitive towards gun owners.
 
2013-05-08 10:10:11 AM  

BayouOtter: KJUW89: We need to set some expectations as I see it.  Just like world peace can never be achieved, we will never be 100% from gun violence.  We just need to determine how much we can tolerate at the expense of encroaching on the 2nd Amendment.

The best way to address gun violence is the focus on the violence part. (Since if you remove the gun from the equation somebody is still getting stabbed or beaten to death) by addressing our shiatty justice system, war on drugs, income inequality, systemic racism, cyclical poverty, etc. It'd improve everyone's lives and drop our violence across the board.

I never understood the obsession with 'gun violence' personally. Is being stabbed to death somehow more morally desirable than being shot to death?


One Farker has explicitly expressed the opinion that stabbing homicides preferable to firearm homicides.
 
2013-05-08 10:10:13 AM  

CPennypacker: pedrop357: CPennypacker: GoldSpider: CPennypacker: Overused meme is overused

Successful troll is successful.  Shame on me  :(

Hey you know where I fall on the issue. We've done this before. Let a man make a joke.

I doubt that.  Nobody in favor of gun rights talks the way you do.

I have you fav'd in derp grey for a reason.

I'm not in favor of gun rights

I don't have you fav'd at all for a reason. Who the fark are you?


My mistake
 
2013-05-08 10:11:02 AM  
You say that, but the suicide rate went down 65% in Australia in the decade after their gun ban.

Stopping people from killing themselves just further underscores the busybody mentality involved here.
 
2013-05-08 10:11:38 AM  
Question: the study seems to be about the decline in gun "crimes". What about gun "deaths/injuries"? Is there a statistical difference between the crime stats and accident stats in the U.S.? Just wondering.

In Canada, there is legislation provisions for how guns are stored (locked and unloaded). It did result in a drop for gun-related accidental death/injuries in youth and a significant drop in youth suicide rates. Gun cirmes have also dropped, I think, proportionately to the U.S., but I'd have to review the stats more thoroughly and I don't wanna.
 
2013-05-08 10:11:49 AM  

Saiga410: sammyk: Interesting thing about background checks. 20 years ago the Brady act was signed into law implementing actual background checks. Lo and behold 20 years later gun violence is cut in half. But I am sure there will be someone here shortly to tell us the 2 things are in no way connected.

I wonder how it corrilates to the enactment of CCW legislation?  About 20-25 years ago the states started to lessend the restricitons.


I'm sure it has had some effect. Good luck figuring it out. I just googled "gun used in self defense statistics". Turns out there are only a few thousand articles and all of them claim something different.
 
2013-05-08 10:12:06 AM  

ko_kyi: nekom: They were both written in the same general era, and they are both pretty much anachronisms.

There is a process for revising them as well.  What's the holdup?


Kansas, Texas, etc.  Which is why it's never going to happen.  I'm not naive, I know the political climate will NEVER allow for the 2nd amendment to be repealed.  It's just my opinion that it ought to be.
 
2013-05-08 10:12:11 AM  

mrshowrules: pdee: CCW in 1993:
[www.gun-nuttery.com image 606x509]

2011:
[www.gun-nuttery.com image 614x509]


Does this have any thing to do with the stats in TFA?

It cant be denied that the bloodbath the anti-gun crowded predicted when states started isuing has not occured.

Statistically comparing to the rest of the world, it remains a bloodbath.


But we were told that if CCW became prevalent that murders would go through the roof.  Instead gun crimes have declined.  This is strong evidence that gun control has little to do with gun crime.
 
2013-05-08 10:12:15 AM  

pedrop357: CPennypacker: pedrop357: CPennypacker: GoldSpider: CPennypacker: Overused meme is overused

Successful troll is successful.  Shame on me  :(

Hey you know where I fall on the issue. We've done this before. Let a man make a joke.

I doubt that.  Nobody in favor of gun rights talks the way you do.

I have you fav'd in derp grey for a reason.

I'm not in favor of gun rights

I don't have you fav'd at all for a reason. Who the fark are you?

My mistake


I never said I was . . .

For reference, my official personal stance is that I disagree with the Heller decision and I think that guns should be considered legal but well regulated and not as an individual right

/the more you know
 
2013-05-08 10:12:17 AM  

mrshowrules: The U.S. firearm homicide rate is 20 times higher than the combined rates of 22 countries that are our peers in wealth and population.

A declining rate doesn't mean jack shiat.


The number we should be looking at is total murder rate.  America is still higher but its not some crazy number like 20X.  I also dont see how a declining rate "doesnt mean jack shiat".  It means something we are doing is affecting the rates so we should probably pay attention to what it is.
 
2013-05-08 10:12:24 AM  

Dimensio: One Farker has explicitly expressed the opinion that stabbing homicides preferable to firearm homicides.


Is that the same person who recuses to compare automobile deaths to gun deaths because "guns are designed to kill people"?
 
2013-05-08 10:12:28 AM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: spickus: pdee: CCW in 1993:

Your graphic shows Alabama as a shall issue state. Alabama is not and never was shall issue.

In practice, they are shall issue.


Connecticut is the same way.  They have may issue like components to their system, but are apparently shall issue in practice.  I have a non-res CT permit for what it's worth.
 
2013-05-08 10:13:50 AM  

mrshowrules: Statistically comparing to the rest of the world, it remains a bloodbath.


Irrelevant to the specific point he was making.
 
2013-05-08 10:13:50 AM  

mrshowrules: fluffy2097: mrshowrules: The U.S. firearm homicide rate is 20 times higher than the combined rates of 22 countries that are our peers in wealth and population.

Is that per capita?

We have a shiatload more people then 22 other countries. Of course the raw numbers will be higher.


We're also one of the few countries that has guns, so you know. Like if we were the only country that let people drive blue cars we'd have a lot more blue-car accidents than anyone else.

If you look at our overall homicide rates we're not doing so badly.
 
2013-05-08 10:14:01 AM  

GoldSpider: GanjSmokr: someonelse: There are state laws banning alcohol sales to people with X number of DUI citations.

[citation needed]

Background checks at the distributor/liquor store?  People really thinks this happens?


Sadly, it appears that some people in power seem to think they could make it happen...

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Bill-proposal-10-year-booze-ban-f or -after-third-DUI-203321051.html
 
2013-05-08 10:14:03 AM  

Kome: nekom: Well, correlation does not imply causation

No. Correlation does in fact imply causation. Correlation does not *equal* causation though.


This is one of these ones were a statement gets misread by non specialists - like how a scientific theory is pretty much the apex of long years of research, but in normal speech indicates a rough guess.

In the same way "implies" in logic is absolute - P implies Q is a statement of truth/certainty, but in common language "implies" tends to suggest some sort of vague hint, or someone suggesting something in a roundabout matter.
 
2013-05-08 10:14:27 AM  

tricycleracer: tricycleracer: Endive Wombat: I wish that folks would stop lumping suicide by gun into gun death stats.  My reason is this: If someone is determined to kill themselves, they are going to use whatever means necessary,

You say that, but the FIREARM suicide rate went down 65% in Australia in the decade after their gun ban.

FTFM.


That pretty much addressed his point.  If fewer people use guns and instead use knives, roap, water, car exhaust, etc., nothing has actually been done.  Substitution is not progress.
 
2013-05-08 10:15:03 AM  

CPennypacker: For reference, my official personal stance is that I disagree with the Heller decision and I think that guns should be considered legal but well regulated and not as an individual right


You realize you are in a very small minority, right?
 
2013-05-08 10:15:33 AM  
These are always such great fun to watch.

Everyone is always already set in their ways and never wants to listen to the other side let alone change their opinion.
 
2013-05-08 10:15:40 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: There are the frequent massacres to consider. We're not supposed to talk about them because it's very insensitive towards gun owners.


If you think massacres are common enough to worry about, you probably also think lottery tickets are a sound investment.
 
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