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(Fox News)   The new "environmentally friendly" high-octane E15 fuel that Obama is about to mandate for all cars may damage your fuel lines, destroy your engine, void your warranty, and possibly -- who can say for sure? -- kill you dead   (foxnews.com) divider line 273
    More: Scary, obama, Renewable Fuels Association, individual mandate, ethanol  
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9539 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 May 2013 at 5:50 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-08 07:28:04 AM

Southern100: automaticman:

On a side note about additives, has anyone else noticed the heavy ammonia smell that auto exhaust produces lately?? I thought there was something wrong with my car, but smell it all the time from other cars while on my bike.

The Atmos device requires 10% in order to function correctly and reduce the carbon dioxide emissions. Higher ethanol concentrations produce the ammonia smell due to conversion process and kicking off the clone feed gas production process.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-05-08 07:28:34 AM
Baumli

Ethanol is only a problem in cars for 3 reasons:
1) If you have rust in your gas tank or lines (i.e. older vehicles
And what segment of society is likely to drive "older vehicles"


Once again looking out for the poor. The party of compassion speaks. And like always, says "Fark the poor".
 
2013-05-08 07:29:51 AM
We shouldn't be using food as fuel for our vehicles. Isn't this push partly responsible for the jump in grocery bills the past few years?
 
2013-05-08 07:30:00 AM
Ethanol mixes with water.
Breaks down quicker than gas.
Is a solvent to petrochemical (plastic) parts
Lower power than straight gas.

/Marine Mechanics hate the stuff.
//Even the ones that watch MSNBC.
 
2013-05-08 07:30:09 AM
Stand back, I'm going to do math! Here in Tulsa, we still have pure gas available at the pump. When I tank up for a trip to Texas, I get around 10% farther on a tank than I do after I fill up with E-10 for the return trip. Since the pure gas is 10 cents higher per gallon ($3.39 v. $3.29), I get 10% more MPG for 3% higher cost.
 
2013-05-08 07:30:20 AM

OnlyM3: And what segment of society is likely to drive "older vehicles"


The same segment of society likely to pass around "FW:FW:FW:OBAMA BENGHAZI DEATH PANEL" emails and to post on FARK about how the Gubament is going to march into their house and beat them for their guns?
 
2013-05-08 07:30:20 AM
The EPA says it is safe for cars built after 2001, but acknowledges it is inappropriate for boats and small motors, including lawnmowers and chainsaws.

Great, so where the fark am I supposed to get small engine fuel then, once this law goes into effect? I can't find regular gas anywhere, as everything is already 10% ethanol. And I sure as hell don't want to have to drive 45 minutes just to get some non weed wacker wrecking fuel.
 
2013-05-08 07:30:52 AM

OnlyM3: Baumli

Ethanol is only a problem in cars for 3 reasons:
1) If you have rust in your gas tank or lines (i.e. older vehicles And what segment of society is likely to drive "older vehicles"


Once again looking out for the poor. The party of compassion speaks. And like always, says "Fark the poor".


I agree with you, we need to address income inequality.
 
2013-05-08 07:32:27 AM

MythDragon: The EPA says it is safe for cars built after 2001, but acknowledges it is inappropriate for boats and small motors, including lawnmowers and chainsaws.

Great, so where the fark am I supposed to get small engine fuel then, once this law goes into effect? I can't find regular gas anywhere, as everything is already 10% ethanol. And I sure as hell don't want to have to drive 45 minutes just to get some non weed wacker wrecking fuel.


If you live near a body of water "marine fuel" is the thing to use for your small engines.
 
2013-05-08 07:33:13 AM
HotWingConspiracy: ]  I agree with you, we need to address income inequality.

That sound you heard was his head asploading knowing he walked into that comment.
 
2013-05-08 07:34:06 AM

HotWingConspiracy: OnlyM3: Baumli

Ethanol is only a problem in cars for 3 reasons:
1) If you have rust in your gas tank or lines (i.e. older vehicles And what segment of society is likely to drive "older vehicles"


Once again looking out for the poor. The party of compassion speaks. And like always, says "Fark the poor".

I agree with you, we need to address income inequality.


nice
 
2013-05-08 07:37:09 AM
I try not to use ethanol at all. There area few stations around  - BP, mostly - that don't use ethanol.  I have an older car from 1966.
 
2013-05-08 07:37:46 AM

bk3k: Not reading this Faux Noise article.  Still on this one, I cannot support Obama.


You should read it.  I thought it was odd that Obama could mandate fuel requirements himself. That's because he can't.  The article says nothing about Obama.

Headline trolling - the best kind of trolling.
 
2013-05-08 07:38:11 AM

stirfrybry: log_jammin: remus: The whole thing is a fraud led by the massively funded ethanol companies

what is the fraud exactly?

That it helps save the planet


THIS.  Only without the saving the planet part.  Because it doesn't do that.

Talk about ethanol that is not corn based and you might be onto something there.  Better yet, stop talking internal combustion engines entirely!
 
2013-05-08 07:39:29 AM

runescorpio: Day_Old_Dutchie: E-85, the Ethanol Queen laughs at your unfounded fears.

While she changes her fuel filter every 5-10k. Shop I go to tested an ethanol car for 5k and pulled the brand new filter and cut it open and compsred it to others. 5k and it was gummed with chunks of stuff and had this greenish tint.


I've owned an E85 Flex Fuel vehicle for nearly six years and have never had a problem with the fuel system.

/transmission's another matter altogether
//just laid down $700 to replace the old one
///farkin' Dodge
 
2013-05-08 07:42:54 AM
The only farking reason this works in Brazil is because they grow sugar cane. It's efficient. Sugar-> alcohol works. Corn -> sugar -> alcohol is subsidized failure.
 
2013-05-08 07:43:50 AM

Dufus: Strange isn't it that back in the eighties we ran gas-o-hol in everything from lawnmowers to motorcycles and never noticed a problem. I actually ran nearly pure ethanol a couple of times with no problem.

Today's alcohol based fuels will destroy a small engine in no time if not treated with extra fuel stabilizers and additives. What are they mandating be formulated into that stuff that makes it so corrosive? I've already had two chainsaws, two generators, and a riding lawnmower nearly junked because of that nasty stuff.

I went to start my generator after Hurricane Issac and found white fibrous sludge clogging the fuel bowl and carburetor even though I ran it several times a month..What are they adding to the mix that we don't know about?


The ethanol is the corrosive agent. It's nasty stuff. Refiners love it though...because of the subsidies it's cheaper than making gasoline.
 
2013-05-08 07:44:52 AM

Dufus: Strange isn't it that back in the eighties we ran gas-o-hol in everything from lawnmowers to motorcycles and never noticed a problem. I actually ran nearly pure ethanol a couple of times with no problem.

Today's alcohol based fuels will destroy a small engine in no time if not treated with extra fuel stabilizers and additives. What are they mandating be formulated into that stuff that makes it so corrosive? I've already had two chainsaws, two generators, and a riding lawnmower nearly junked because of that nasty stuff.

I went to start my generator after Hurricane Issac and found white fibrous sludge clogging the fuel bowl and carburetor even though I ran it several times a month..What are they adding to the mix that we don't know about?


We don't know what it is and it's because of a gub'mint mandate so it must be some sort of mind contro chemical
 
2013-05-08 07:45:24 AM

swahnhennessy: Replace Iowa as the first primary state. Problem solved.


Agreed.
Ethanol is all about politics, not the environment.
 
2013-05-08 07:46:06 AM

Enemabag Jones: Still probably has more to do with ADM.

 
2013-05-08 07:46:09 AM
I think the corn lobby makes the gun lobby look like amateurs.

Nat gas is the best transportation fuel right now and should be used as a bridge fuel until other technologies mature.
 
2013-05-08 07:48:45 AM
'Merica!!!! Wooooo, racin'!

www4.pictures.zimbio.com
 
2013-05-08 07:51:40 AM

Animatronik: This is classic example of liberals doubling down on a bad idea because they think it must be right.
Science is of no value to them unless it supports their idea of how the universe ought to be.

If that sounds familiar, its because this is a religious fervor that drives these things

Ethanol as fuel is too costly, does not add to energy independence, does not reduce CO2, and takes away from food production and exports.

There is no logical reason I can see for EPA to do this except to create the impression of doing something worthwhile while adding to the problem.


Yes, it's liberals that have a problem with science. Just tell yourself that.
 
2013-05-08 07:54:01 AM

Dufus: Strange isn't it that back in the eighties we ran gas-o-hol in everything from lawnmowers to motorcycles and never noticed a problem. I actually ran nearly pure ethanol a couple of times with no problem.

Today's alcohol based fuels will destroy a small engine in no time if not treated with extra fuel stabilizers and additives. What are they mandating be formulated into that stuff that makes it so corrosive? I've already had two chainsaws, two generators, and a riding lawnmower nearly junked because of that nasty stuff.

I went to start my generator after Hurricane Issac and found white fibrous sludge clogging the fuel bowl and carburetor even though I ran it several times a month..What are they adding to the mix that we don't know about?



Salt.

You live near the ocean. Moisture got into your tank. The alcohol aided in drying that moisture as the gas sat. Happens with regular gas too, only not at as fast a pace, and with more sludgy results.
 
2013-05-08 07:55:41 AM

log_jammin: http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/biofuels/four-t h ings-to-know-about-e15-15096134

All cars 2007 and newer should be compatible with E15 because automakers have changed the formulation of the affected components.

...

But the main issue is whether or not your vehicle will be covered under warranty for any damage caused by E15 usage, and in many cases the answer is no. GM and Ford have certified their own vehicles starting with the 2012 and 2013 model years, respectively, so some brand-new cars will have no trouble at all.

So in short, buy a new car if you want us to honor the warranty, otherwise we will blame any problem you have on E15, forcing you to eat the cost yourself.


So it sounds like the government wants us to buy new products to use the new gas blend.  You think they want us to be broke or something?
 
2013-05-08 07:58:57 AM
I work for an automaker (not big 3) in their R&D division. If you run E85 ethanol blend through your vehicle that is not specifically made to handle E85 it will corrode everything that comes into contact with the fuel or the vapors of said fuel. It is a bad idea to run this stuff through any non E85 car you plan to keep for any length of time. There will be breakdowns of the vehicle, but it will be after the warranty is done, or they have the sign that says the vehicle warranty is voided if you use this stuff. The cost to replace the parts? Thousands of dollars.

On a side note - you may purchase this stuff thinking that you save money per gallon of fuel, but ethanol does not burn as efficiently as fuel with less ethanol blend thereby reducing mpg in your vehicle and canceling out any perceived savings.

your welcome
 
2013-05-08 07:59:56 AM
God dammit. I have t deal with this shiat here in Thailand and I don't want to deal with it when I finally move back home.
I like classic cars and bikes, these don't like E85...
 
2013-05-08 08:00:34 AM

hardinparamedic: Dufus: went to start my generator after Hurricane Issac and found white fibrous sludge clogging the fuel bowl and carburetor even though I ran it several times a month..What are they adding to the mix that we don't know about?

You experienced what is known as fuel gelling. That white, fibrous sludge was Paraffin.


If it was deisel, yes. I'm under the impression this was E15/10 seeing as this is an E15/10 thread....
 
2013-05-08 08:00:55 AM

RedPhoenix122: cman: I wonder how much resources it would take to get us off of oil completely.

Electric cars are here but it is not economically feasible for most. Until the prices come down those kinds of vehicles will find little success.

One of the big issues is the cost of the battery.  If there was a way to make a low cost, high charge battery, they might be able to drive down the price point.


yeah, was going to say the price of electric cars isn't really all that high anymore

the issue is more function, until batteries can get us at least as far as a typical gas tank, then people are going to keep looking for more fuel efficient cars over electric cars, also not many people like being early adopters and footing bigger costs for repair
 
2013-05-08 08:01:06 AM

DubtodaIll: We shouldn't be using food as fuel for our vehicles. Isn't this push partly responsible for the jump in grocery bills the past few years?



Fun Facts: Corn is one of the least efficient ethanol producers, and is only used because of the corn lobby... Cat tails, the kind you see growing in ditches and at waste water treatment plants are far better producers of ethanol. There are tons of plants that don't use existing farm land as well that are great ethanol producers, kelp for example is a great producer of ethanol.
 
2013-05-08 08:01:16 AM

digistil: RedPhoenix122: cman: I wonder how much resources it would take to get us off of oil completely.

Electric cars are here but it is not economically feasible for most. Until the prices come down those kinds of vehicles will find little success.

One of the big issues is the cost of the battery.  If there was a way to make a low cost, high charge battery, they might be able to drive down the price point.

Isn't there some group that's successfully built a energy storage device that fills like a transistor, but discharges like normal battery?


Wasn't that in a Batman movie?
 
2013-05-08 08:02:58 AM

positiveguy: I work for an automaker (not big 3) in their R&D division. If you run E85 ethanol blend through your vehicle that is not specifically made to handle E85 it will corrode everything that comes into contact with the fuel or the vapors of said fuel. It is a bad idea to run this stuff through any non E85 car you plan to keep for any length of time. There will be breakdowns of the vehicle, but it will be after the warranty is done, or they have the sign that says the vehicle warranty is voided if you use this stuff. The cost to replace the parts? Thousands of dollars.

On a side note - you may purchase this stuff thinking that you save money per gallon of fuel, but ethanol does not burn as efficiently as fuel with less ethanol blend thereby reducing mpg in your vehicle and canceling out any perceived savings.


your welcome


I said "your" because I wanted the grammar police to actually read the comment...

You're welcome again.
 
2013-05-08 08:03:04 AM
The EPA says it is safe for cars built after 2001

Groovy.  My beater pickemup-truck is a '97, and I can't afford a new(er) vehicle.  THANKS, OBAMA

(I'll have to ask my mechanic what additives I can use to counter-act all that ethanol)

Pick: Switched to non ethanol gas for all my small engines on weed whip, chain saws, lawn mowers. And my boats.

http://www.pure-gas.org


They used to have gas stations in Vermont that sold non-ethanol gas...then they had to switch because there were no more suppliers in the area.  Sucks ass.  I got FANTASTIC mileage on non-ethanol gas.  38+ MPG as opposed to 32 MPG on E10.
 
2013-05-08 08:04:51 AM
I don't know why E15 would be such a problem. Illinois, particularly Chicago, switches to a high ethanol blend every summer with no ill effects. I'm not sure what the exact percentage of ethanol is in the blend, but it is higher than the national average.
 
2013-05-08 08:04:59 AM
I don't take science advice from a news source that doesn't accept evolution as scientific fact.
 
2013-05-08 08:05:34 AM
The amount of bull regarding the problems with ethanol are astounding.  So many in the pay of the big oil companies and so many incompetent mechanics who denounce ethanol either for political reasons or profit.

So many down right lies.

We've used it for years in mowers, cars, tractors, trucks and chain saws without any problems.  I have a couple of vehicles that have run 150,000 miles with no fuel related problems.  I've taken 5000 mile trips and alternated between ethanol blended fuel and regular because people claimed better mileage.  Wasn't true.  Mileage remained the same, probably because ethanol reduced the "ping" factor that lower octane fuel caused.
 
2013-05-08 08:06:52 AM
So remember. Break out your horse and carriage for that yearly beach trip
 
2013-05-08 08:07:04 AM

remus: unlikely: This public service announcement brought to you by the Official Propaganda Arm of the Republican Party*.

*A wholly owned subsidiary of the Oil industry

FTA:  " Toyota and Lexus even placed warning labels on gas caps and owner's manual instructions caution not to use E-15."

So, you're suggesting that two Japanese companies that are renowned for Quality and engineering are part of this vast right wing conspiracy?

Did you remember your meds tonight?


They are huge multinational companies with the potential to owe billions in taxes.  They build factories in the US based solely on anti-union labor laws and massive tax giveaways.  What could they possibly be but sympathetic to the vast right wing status quo?
 
2013-05-08 08:07:37 AM
Obama....is there anything he can do...right.
 
2013-05-08 08:07:42 AM
Well I was certainly hoping for something to make my fuel economy worse and not bring my fuel prices down.

It may be time to SC the jeep and run E85.
 
2013-05-08 08:09:34 AM
I moved to Europe where we live in a rainy fog all winter--- and ended up with water in my gas tank for the first time in my life--- because we do NOT use ethanol here.

I could really give a furk, I now run diesel.  It is cheaper and more efficient, and with a turbo, plenty of low end power.  The issue is the govt. here promoted diesel as being environmentally friendly, and now we all run diesels and it creates local pollution (which is allegedly better than causing climate change).
 
2013-05-08 08:09:44 AM

Baumli: Faux News is retarded, as usual.

Ethanol is only a problem in cars for 3 reasons:
1) If you have rust in your gas tank or lines (i.e.  older vehicles, or vehicles still using metal-lined gas tanks) the ethanol can act as a solvent, knocking it lose and running it through your engine and causing mechanical failure or damage. Ethanol has also shown slight potential to be corrosive to aluminum, however most of that extends from the aforementioned fact.

2) Ethanol burns at a higher temperature than typical unleaded gasoline. It also gells at lower temperatures reducing vapor volume- which is why diesel engines (lacking spark plugs for initiation) have some difficulty starting in climates with lower pressure and lower temperature (such as in the Rocky Mountains). The 'wait to start' is from a glowplug using battery power to warm the air within the cylinders to counteract this. Most unleaded vehicles don't have to worry because of the use of spark plugs.

3) Reduction in fuel economy.

Ethanol was never intended to be a permanent solution; just a quick fix to alleviate dependency on foreign oil. Any other questions should be directed to your local mechanic.


That's not an exhaustive list.  I have a current-model performance-oriented car that is commonly converted to run on E85 because of the octane benefit it provides.  For a car that can use that additional octane, it's similar to running on a low 100 octane level race fuel that would cost several times more per gallon.

It presents a variety of problems, though.  First, it turns the stock fuel filter into a gummy mess that eventually starves your engine of fuel.  The ethanol essentially dissolves the filter and subsequently ruins your fuel pump.  Once you've replaced that, you notice that you'll need more powerful injectors to atomize the E85, as the stock injectors struggle to keep up.  Finally, your car likely needs to be tuned to run on this new fuel.  If it's not, there's a chance you're wasting fuel and damaging your catalytic converter by expelling unburnt fuel through the exhaust.

Keep in mind, these are a few of the issues running E85 on a brand new car.  I can't imagine what E15 would be like, especially on older cars where the fuel lines and other components are also in danger.
 
2013-05-08 08:10:09 AM

digistil: RedPhoenix122: cman: I wonder how much resources it would take to get us off of oil completely.

Electric cars are here but it is not economically feasible for most. Until the prices come down those kinds of vehicles will find little success.

One of the big issues is the cost of the battery.  If there was a way to make a low cost, high charge battery, they might be able to drive down the price point.

Isn't there some group that's successfully built a energy storage device that fills like a transistor, but discharges like normal battery?


Um, that would be a capacitor.

The only difference between a capacitor and a battery (electrically speaking) is the internal resistance and the energy density.

The inherent flaw in a megacapacitor is that while a rechargable battery converts input electricity into a chemical reaction, the capacitor just holds electrons back. All of that energy can me released in microseconds if you get a short, crush the canister, etc.

If you are holding a car trip's worth of energy, that would probably leave a crater.
 
2013-05-08 08:14:37 AM
Ethanol is farking stupid.  It has been from the beginning.

Setting aside the fuel line corrosion and engine deterioration issues, it is just plain inefficient.  There is less energy in a gallon of ethanol than a gallon of gasoline, and it costs more.  So you're paying more and getting less, and that's someone supposed to be a good thing?
 
2013-05-08 08:18:41 AM

CPennypacker: I don't take science advice from a news source that doesn't accept evolution as scientific fact.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
2013-05-08 08:21:27 AM
I have had my car for 12 out of its 13 years and I remember when $20 would fill the tank, now its $40.

I do worry what other components I'm going to need to replace to keep her running on this new gasoline.

I don't think I should be forced to buy a new car when mine suits my needs and has fewer problems than most of the newer cars on the road. Very few electronic components to break. Except the blasted windows....

It is fraud if the gas is sold at the same (or higher) price to the consumer when it provides less energy. Ripping off the consumer as usual.
 
2013-05-08 08:21:44 AM

xanadian: THANKS, OBAMA


hahahais this for real
 
2013-05-08 08:22:03 AM

Evil Twin Skippy: digistil: RedPhoenix122: cman: I wonder how much resources it would take to get us off of oil completely.

Electric cars are here but it is not economically feasible for most. Until the prices come down those kinds of vehicles will find little success.

One of the big issues is the cost of the battery.  If there was a way to make a low cost, high charge battery, they might be able to drive down the price point.

Isn't there some group that's successfully built a energy storage device that fills like a transistor, but discharges like normal battery?

Um, that would be a capacitor.

The only difference between a capacitor and a battery (electrically speaking) is the internal resistance and the energy density.

The inherent flaw in a megacapacitor is that while a rechargable battery converts input electricity into a chemical reaction, the capacitor just holds electrons back. All of that energy can me released in microseconds if you get a short, crush the canister, etc.

If you are holding a car trip's worth of energy, that would probably leave a crater.


That sure would make road trips exciting however... Pinto 2!
 
2013-05-08 08:23:59 AM

GizmoToy: Baumli: Faux News is retarded, as usual.

Ethanol is only a problem in cars for 3 reasons:
1) If you have rust in your gas tank or lines (i.e.  older vehicles, or vehicles still using metal-lined gas tanks) the ethanol can act as a solvent, knocking it lose and running it through your engine and causing mechanical failure or damage. Ethanol has also shown slight potential to be corrosive to aluminum, however most of that extends from the aforementioned fact.

2) Ethanol burns at a higher temperature than typical unleaded gasoline. It also gells at lower temperatures reducing vapor volume- which is why diesel engines (lacking spark plugs for initiation) have some difficulty starting in climates with lower pressure and lower temperature (such as in the Rocky Mountains). The 'wait to start' is from a glowplug using battery power to warm the air within the cylinders to counteract this. Most unleaded vehicles don't have to worry because of the use of spark plugs.

3) Reduction in fuel economy.

Ethanol was never intended to be a permanent solution; just a quick fix to alleviate dependency on foreign oil. Any other questions should be directed to your local mechanic.

That's not an exhaustive list.  I have a current-model performance-oriented car that is commonly converted to run on E85 because of the octane benefit it provides.  For a car that can use that additional octane, it's similar to running on a low 100 octane level race fuel that would cost several times more per gallon.

It presents a variety of problems, though.  First, it turns the stock fuel filter into a gummy mess that eventually starves your engine of fuel.  The ethanol essentially dissolves the filter and subsequently ruins your fuel pump.  Once you've replaced that, you notice that you'll need more powerful injectors to atomize the E85, as the stock injectors struggle to keep up.  Finally, your car likely needs to be tuned to run on this new fuel.  If it's not, there's a chance you're wasting fuel and d ...


Looots of this.  If you want me to run Esomething, build me a system to detect the fuel type or let me easily re-map the system for the fuel available.  I have a turbo, let me boost the hell out of it and actually *use* the ethanol and I'll be happy.

Don't water down my fuel and tell me it's better for me.
 
2013-05-08 08:25:29 AM

RedPhoenix122: cman: I wonder how much resources it would take to get us off of oil completely.

Electric cars are here but it is not economically feasible for most. Until the prices come down those kinds of vehicles will find little success.

One of the big issues is the cost of the battery.  If there was a way to make a low cost, high charge battery, they might be able to drive down the price point.


this is a huge issue - lithium is mined on one side of the world, shipped to the other side for processing and then shipped to us in the US.  Eco Friendly?  mebbe not.

If you're looking for a growth business begin a carburetor shop.  Only deal with landscaping dealers.  You'll be changing fuel lines and getting gunk out of carburetors 12 hours a day.
I never realized just how many small engines I owned until I set out to change the fuel lines and filters in all of them.

ALSO-  http://pure-gas.org/?stateprov=OR  In most states there are places that sell "Off Road" fuel that has no Alcohol in it.  It's more costly than that usual but how long do you want that $7k John Deere in the shop?  I have prior to now contacted Sunoco and was informed that it would be perfectly fine to run racing fuel in small engines so if you have no off road fuel available but there is a race track near by you can buy some alcohol free fuel there.

AND if you store a machine for over 90 days I fully recommend Star Tron fuel stabilizer -Not my employer-  I hit the key after treating a tank of fuel and running treated fuel into the injectors TWO YEARS ago and it fired immediately last week.  I've had bad experience with Stabil and no experience with Seafoam.  Furthermore-if you are mixing fuel for a 2cycle then always use the mfgr's oil.  Stihl (for example) has compatible stabilizers in the oil meant for mixing so that's covered right there.
As always, YMMV.

Suddenly, turning your lawn into a vegetable garden starts looking viable
 
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