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(Fox News)   The new "environmentally friendly" high-octane E15 fuel that Obama is about to mandate for all cars may damage your fuel lines, destroy your engine, void your warranty, and possibly -- who can say for sure? -- kill you dead   (foxnews.com) divider line 273
    More: Scary, obama, Renewable Fuels Association, individual mandate, ethanol  
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9542 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 May 2013 at 5:50 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-08 06:24:23 AM  
So, Fox news doesn't understand how engines work either. Shocking.
 
2013-05-08 06:24:24 AM  
rynthetyn:

It's been a while since I read up on it, but I could swear that I read that industrial hemp was supposed to be really good for manufacturing ethanol.

Sounds like a waste of "hemp" to me...
 
2013-05-08 06:24:50 AM  

jaytkay: rynthetyn: I could swear that I read that industrial hemp was supposed to be really good for manufacturing ethanol

ugh, don't get the hemp people started.


Oh yeah, probably shouldn't have reminded them. I wish I could remember where I read about it being good for ethanol though, because it was some entirely reputable and not at all stoner source.
 
2013-05-08 06:25:33 AM  

Southern100: automaticman:

On a side note about additives, has anyone else noticed the heavy ammonia smell that auto exhaust produces lately?? I thought there was something wrong with my car, but smell it all the time from other cars while on my bike.

The Atmos device requires 10% in order to function correctly and reduce the carbon dioxide emissions. Higher ethanol concentrations produce the ammonia smell due to conversion process and kicking off the clone feed gas production process.


*cough* BULLshiat *cough* - Fartbongo's putting ammonia in the gasoline supply to poison us.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!
 
2013-05-08 06:26:29 AM  
Oh crap, it's on! The agribusiness lobby vs the oil lobby!  No matter who wins we lose.

giftedmadness: I remember about 6 months ago there was a thread about ethanol and a few libs on here were claiming it it was never about helping the environment.  Where is whidbey for this thread? lol


Was it about cellulose ethanol or corn ethanol?

Using something like switchgrass or, as Moonfisher said, the inedible parts of corn would be an effective way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions without being wasteful.  We're using corn (including the edible parts) because it's subsidized to the hilt and we have more corn than places we can stick it.  That's just a giant waste of farmland and taxpayer dollars.  We're also raising the price of corn, despite record harvests, because we've got food demand AND energy demand.
 
2013-05-08 06:27:11 AM  

Archie Goodwin: Dufus: Strange isn't it that back in the eighties we ran gas-o-hol in everything from lawnmowers to motorcycles and never noticed a problem. I actually ran nearly pure ethanol a couple of times with no problem.

Today's alcohol based fuels will destroy a small engine in no time if not treated with extra fuel stabilizers and additives. What are they mandating be formulated into that stuff that makes it so corrosive? I've already had two chainsaws, two generators, and a riding lawnmower nearly junked because of that nasty stuff.

I went to start my generator after Hurricane Issac and found white fibrous sludge clogging the fuel bowl and carburetor even though I ran it several times a month..What are they adding to the mix that we don't know about?

Only thing I can think of - Lead.

Back in the 80's fuel had lead additives, now it probably doesn't. What they replaced it with I have no idea.


Lead was freaking awesome for everything. That paint won't come off, the gas won't go bad, and your car's radiator will never break.

Why did people have to CONSUME it?
 
2013-05-08 06:29:41 AM  

cman: I wonder how much resources it would take to get us off of oil completely.

Electric cars are here but it is not economically feasible for most. Until the prices come down those kinds of vehicles will find little success.


Unpossible. Petro-products are literally everywhere, from the meds you take before going to bed to the alarm clock that wakes you up in the morning. Crazy, really, if you think about how ubiquitous oil products are in modern life.

However, assuming one just wants to get rid of the daily shiatty exhaust belching nuisance/health hazard/waste that are gas combustion based automotive engines, then yeah, what RedPheonix said, better batteries (lots o' petro used in making those too btw).
 
2013-05-08 06:29:44 AM  
TFA: Ethanol supporters..claim,,Ethanol blends of 25 percent have been used for years in Brazil with no ill effects on the same cars sold in the U.S.

Seems like an easy claim to verify.
 
2013-05-08 06:31:29 AM  

mike_d85: Archie Goodwin: Dufus: Strange isn't it that back in the eighties we ran gas-o-hol in everything from lawnmowers to motorcycles and never noticed a problem. I actually ran nearly pure ethanol a couple of times with no problem.

Today's alcohol based fuels will destroy a small engine in no time if not treated with extra fuel stabilizers and additives. What are they mandating be formulated into that stuff that makes it so corrosive? I've already had two chainsaws, two generators, and a riding lawnmower nearly junked because of that nasty stuff.

I went to start my generator after Hurricane Issac and found white fibrous sludge clogging the fuel bowl and carburetor even though I ran it several times a month..What are they adding to the mix that we don't know about?

Only thing I can think of - Lead.

Back in the 80's fuel had lead additives, now it probably doesn't. What they replaced it with I have no idea.

Lead was freaking awesome for everything. That paint won't come off, the gas won't go bad, and your car's radiator will never break.

Why did people have to CONSUME it?


Of course, all of that lead also wound up giving us horribly crime ridden cities too, but surely that's a small price to pay for durability.
 
2013-05-08 06:38:44 AM  
I'm pretty sure we went through this exact same schpiel with the E-10 blend, and everything worked out fine.  As a matter of fact,  I know we went through this same schpiel and everything is fine.
 
2013-05-08 06:38:56 AM  

rynthetyn: remus: log_jammin: remus: The whole thing is a fraud led by the massively funded ethanol companies

what is the fraud exactly?

That using corn for this is a good idea.  It's one of the worst choices, but we happen to have a crap load of it in the midwest.  They use sugar cane in South America.  There's some grass that can grow here in the U.S. that's also supposed to have a much better ethanol potential, but we keep worshiping the use of corn instead of pursuing the much better alternatives.

It's been a while since I read up on it, but I could swear that I read that industrial hemp was supposed to be really good for manufacturing ethanol.


Yeah, and the corn lobby (Monsanto and Cargill) is 100% against legalizing hemp. Same reasons as Henri DuPont, W.R.Hearst and Adolph Coors had in demanding hemp be outlawed back in the late 19teens and early 1920s except for a different plant. Those guys had gigantic investments in timber, and hemp was the only real competition for the industrial fiber market.

Sure, the majority of the testimony in Congress at the time was about how legal hemp caused white women to want to sleep with negro jazz musicians and how it turned young people into slavering, murderous monsters, not to mention luring them into communism. The corn lobby has the same motivations, and actually uses the same propaganda as those old SilverShirt assholes did back then.
 
2013-05-08 06:41:33 AM  
jaytkay ,
TFA: Ethanol supporters..claim,,Ethanol blends of 25 percent have been used for years in Brazil with no ill effects on the same cars sold in the U.S.
Seems like an easy claim to verify.


I believe that engines there, at least sometimes, are made to cope with that.
Also this is based from sugar cane, is sugar cane ethanol same as corn ethanol?
 
2013-05-08 06:43:44 AM  

log_jammin: agree or disagree, that isn't exactly what anyone would call "fraud".


Fraud: intentional deception for personal gain.

If the fraudulent person takes away one of three things from you:

1. Money.

2. Something else of value, real estate, jewelry, etc.

3. A legal right.

So the ethanol suppliers are taking your money and not giving you the same value back, all while saying that it's a good thing..

Compare gasoline's energy density to ethanol's. It is fraud.
 
2013-05-08 06:44:04 AM  

Enemabag Jones: jaytkay ,
TFA: Ethanol supporters..claim,,Ethanol blends of 25 percent have been used for years in Brazil with no ill effects on the same cars sold in the U.S.
Seems like an easy claim to verify.

I believe that engines there, at least sometimes, are made to cope with that.
Also this is based from sugar cane, is sugar cane ethanol same as corn ethanol?


You're farking with us, right?

Doesn't matter what plant it came from, you're still breaking it down to the same chemical formula -- Ethanol.
 
2013-05-08 06:44:59 AM  
"We just feel that it is not safe for the consumer. It's not safe for their engines,"

And we all know a gut feeling is better than actual, testable evidence.
 
2013-05-08 06:48:07 AM  
Crap article is crap. All gasoline at the pump already contains at least 10% ethanol and has for years. Up to 20% can easily be used without damaging the engine. More anti-Obama fearmongering from Fox propaganda.
 
2013-05-08 06:48:39 AM  

Third Day Mark: I'm pretty sure we went through this exact same schpiel with the E-10 blend, and everything worked out fine.  As a matter of fact,  I know we went through this same schpiel and everything is fine.


You mean, car manufacturers have known for decades that ethanol gets added to fuels and have made allowances for it? WAKE UP SHEEPLE! OBAMA MUST BE STOPPED!
 
2013-05-08 06:50:27 AM  
The guberment did something similar with diesels a few vyears back. You know mandating the redcution of emissions that actually make diesels more complex due to the addition of DEF systems & other emmissions crap. All I can say is here we go again.

The new truck emissions systems on hevy diesels are nothing but heartburn. My work truck (a 2013 Internatioal with roghly 36,000 miles on it) h as already had the EGR coolor replaced as well as other issues with the system.
 
2013-05-08 06:50:58 AM  
We went through this last year in Germany.  Lots of political theater and fanfare.  When the stuff hit the pumps, German drivers just refused to buy it leaving oceans of it stuck in the supply lines.  Consumers just switched to the higher octane premium-unleaded which of course costs them more and makes a lot more profits for the oil companies who own the filling stations.
 
2013-05-08 06:51:49 AM  

Animatronik: This is classic example of liberals doubling down on a bad idea because they think it must be right.



You think big corn is a "liberal" lobby group?
 
2013-05-08 06:51:51 AM  
Switched to non ethanol gas for all my small engines on weed whip, chain saws, lawn mowers. And my boats.

http://www.pure-gas.org
 
2013-05-08 06:52:32 AM  

Hopman: The guberment did something similar with diesels a few vyears back. You know mandating the redcution of emissions that actually make diesels more complex due to the addition of DEF systems & other emmissions crap. All I can say is here we go again.

The new truck emissions systems on hevy diesels are nothing but heartburn. My work truck (a 2013 Internatioal with roghly 36,000 miles on it) h as already had the EGR coolor replaced as well as other issues with the system.


And my work truck (97 and 99 International 4300's with 486,xxx and 387,xxx miles respectively) have BOTH, been using the diesel blends, with 0 problems what so ever.

You just got a lemon.
 
2013-05-08 06:54:16 AM  
Oil companies say

And that's all you need to know.
 
2013-05-08 06:54:49 AM  

Third Day Mark: Hopman: The guberment did something similar with diesels a few vyears back. You know mandating the redcution of emissions that actually make diesels more complex due to the addition of DEF systems & other emmissions crap. All I can say is here we go again.

The new truck emissions systems on hevy diesels are nothing but heartburn. My work truck (a 2013 Internatioal with roghly 36,000 miles on it) h as already had the EGR coolor replaced as well as other issues with the system.

And my work truck (97 and 99 International 4300's with 486,xxx and 387,xxx miles respectively) have BOTH, been using the diesel blends, with 0 problems what so ever.

You just got a lemon.


Internationals really strike me as a piece of crap lately. Our third ambulance is an International with a Type I body mounted on it. 6 months old, 20k miles, and it's been through two head gaskets and a complete revamp of the fuel system in that time, and a rear axle.
 
2013-05-08 06:54:55 AM  

abhorrent1: Oil companies say

And that's all you need to know.


Quoted For MF'in Truth.
 
2013-05-08 06:57:32 AM  

hardinparamedic: Third Day Mark: Hopman: The guberment did something similar with diesels a few vyears back. You know mandating the redcution of emissions that actually make diesels more complex due to the addition of DEF systems & other emmissions crap. All I can say is here we go again.

The new truck emissions systems on hevy diesels are nothing but heartburn. My work truck (a 2013 Internatioal with roghly 36,000 miles on it) h as already had the EGR coolor replaced as well as other issues with the system.

And my work truck (97 and 99 International 4300's with 486,xxx and 387,xxx miles respectively) have BOTH, been using the diesel blends, with 0 problems what so ever.

You just got a lemon.

Internationals really strike me as a piece of crap lately. Our third ambulance is an International with a Type I body mounted on it. 6 months old, 20k miles, and it's been through two head gaskets and a complete revamp of the fuel system in that time, and a rear axle.


One of mine is cursed.  The 99 is the one with lesser miles, its had SIXTEEN different injectors put into it (It only has 6 in the engine), TWO complete rebuilds, a transmission rebuild, a new driveshaft, 3 new batteries, 2 High Pressure Pumps, the works.  Pretty much anything that could have been replaced, has.

The other one is a beast.  Its a 6 speed standard and I use it every day for about 250 miles.  I think we've put a new water pump in it, and thats about it.   

/Nephew named it Spike.
//Great name for that truck.
 
2013-05-08 06:59:42 AM  

Southern100: automaticman:

On a side note about additives, has anyone else noticed the heavy ammonia smell that auto exhaust produces lately?? I thought there was something wrong with my car, but smell it all the time from other cars while on my bike.

The Atmos device requires 10% in order to function correctly and reduce the carbon dioxide emissions. Higher ethanol concentrations produce the ammonia smell due to conversion process and kicking off the clone feed gas production process.


Nicely done! I wondered why my car turned left when I steered right...
 
2013-05-08 07:00:40 AM  

Southern100: automaticman:

On a side note about additives, has anyone else noticed the heavy ammonia smell that auto exhaust produces lately?? I thought there was something wrong with my car, but smell it all the time from other cars while on my bike.

The Atmos device requires 10% in order to function correctly and reduce the carbon dioxide emissions. Higher ethanol concentrations produce the ammonia smell due to conversion process and kicking off the clone feed gas production process.


Nicely done! I been wondering why my car just does what it wants...
 
2013-05-08 07:04:31 AM  

automaticman: Southern100: automaticman:

On a side note about additives, has anyone else noticed the heavy ammonia smell that auto exhaust produces lately?? I thought there was something wrong with my car, but smell it all the time from other cars while on my bike.

The Atmos device requires 10% in order to function correctly and reduce the carbon dioxide emissions. Higher ethanol concentrations produce the ammonia smell due to conversion process and kicking off the clone feed gas production process.

Nicely done! I been wondering why my car just does what it wants...


FML... smartphone post fail.
 
2013-05-08 07:06:06 AM  
Honest Bender

Don't we use some blend of ethanol in California?

You just got off of the "special" MTBE blend the CA democrats forced on people

The party that cares about the environment...
...and clean drinking water
 
2013-05-08 07:06:14 AM  

priapic_abandon: So the ethanol suppliers are taking your money and not giving you the same value back, all while saying that it's a good thing..


you just described every transaction ever.
 
2013-05-08 07:08:34 AM  
There is one true statement in all of this.

If you go so far as to stupidly put gasoline containing alcohol into your DIESEL it will do about $10,000.00 worth of damage to the fuel system by the time you discover you were stupid.
Straight gasoline won't do that.

The more alcohol added to the fuel, the lower the octane.  Subby is a retard.
 
2013-05-08 07:13:22 AM  

prjindigo: There is one true statement in all of this.

If you go so far as to stupidly put gasoline containing alcohol into your DIESEL it will do about $10,000.00 worth of damage to the fuel system by the time you discover you were stupid.
Straight gasoline won't do that.

The more alcohol added to the fuel, the lower the octane.  Subby is a retard.


Is that a mistake that people actually make? Back when I had my diesel Beetle I never even came close to accidentally putting gasoline in it.

/loved that car, definitely buying another diesel when I can't get away with just getting around on 2 wheels anymore
 
2013-05-08 07:13:46 AM  
Not reading this Faux Noise article.  Still on this one, I cannot support Obama.  This is nothing but the corn lobby's wet dream but no good for anyone else.  Using corn for this only serves to jack up the price.  That not only effects corn prices(very bad for Mexican families especially) but also stuff like beef too(they generally feed cows corn).  If this where switchblade grass ethanol, that might be another matter.  Lets subsidize THAT and not corn (while also mandating its use).

As for supposedly lowering our CO2 emissions, being energy independent. or whatever, I would point out the amount of energy that goes into agriculture.  I would also point out that Ethanol has less energy per volume than gasoline.  So while you might even get your E85 cheaper than gas (partially thanks to corn subsidies), you get dramatically less MPG and need to buy more fuel to travel the same distance.  Also, your engine will effectively be less powerful in case that is important to you.

This E15 mandate... you are not helping Mr Obama.  Well helping corn farmers but not much else.  The better thing to do would be to treat the corn lobby like you do the oil lobby.  Screw them.
 
2013-05-08 07:15:05 AM  
Big oil vs. Monsanto---no matter who wins, we lose.

/at least GMO corn ethanol is probably not gonna give your car cancer =P
 
2013-05-08 07:16:29 AM  
When I was 16 I built a "hypermileage vehicle" for a SAE contest.  Our car was similar to the Edison2 linked above, and made 488 mpg on 85% Ethanol.  This is impressive, but it is still the wrong fuel for the future.

1 - Diesel fuels - the Diesel engine was designed to run on almost any combustible liquid, and can run on recycled oils, or fermented algae.
2 - Hydrogen - massively available, emissions are water, and it's already been done.

Pick one.

Batteries are terrible, they do a horrible job storing power and they get that power from (at least right now) the burning of OTHER fossil fuels.  Never mind their limited range and immense charge times.
Ethanol additives only reduce the power output from an otherwise fine engine, and older engine components and some non-OEM parts cannot accept ethanol.  Buying new cars is NOT environmentally friendly.  Look at the cash for clunkers disaster.  And no matter how much you want ethanol to exist in fuels, people are still going to want to own and drive their classic cars.
 
2013-05-08 07:17:12 AM  

prjindigo: If you go so far as to stupidly put gasoline containing alcohol into your DIESEL it will do about $10,000.00 worth of damage to the fuel system by the time you discover you were stupid.
Straight gasoline won't do that.


If you put diesel into a gas engine you will spend 80% of your carefully planned to trip to London during Christmas, on the side of the M5, eating peanuts and candy bars and reading shiatty porno mags while waiting for a tow to arrive.

trust me. I know.
 
2013-05-08 07:17:27 AM  

unlikely: This public service announcement brought to you by the Official Propaganda Arm of the Republican Party*.

*A wholly owned subsidiary of the Oil industry


wrong. they are only partially owned by big oil.
big pharma,big banks and any other kind of big money also control them.
 
2013-05-08 07:18:20 AM  

Abacus9: Crap article is crap. All gasoline at the pump already contains at least 10% ethanol and has for years. Up to 20% can easily be used without damaging the engine. More anti-Obama fearmongering from Fox propaganda.


It's Fox news fearmongering, true... but tell my racing motorcycles that they can run ethanol tainted fuel. I've already had to rebuild multiple carbs because the floats dissolved from the ethanol.

Ethanol washes oil off of cylinder walls... ergo, if you have a rotary engine or 2strokes you are farked. Go find some leaded fuel. And most regular cars would need some degree of modifications to be AS RELIABLE as they currently are if the content of ethanol gets boosted. Injectors resized, computers remapped...  fuel system parts replaced.

It's farking bullshiat and a handout to very well connected and lobbied interests.
 
2013-05-08 07:18:22 AM  
Oh my gawd..... oh, it's fox. Never mind.
 
2013-05-08 07:19:10 AM  

hardinparamedic: [beestonia.files.wordpress.com image 400x574]


Girls!! DRINK!!! Feck off!!

/what, no Fr. Jack?
 
2013-05-08 07:19:39 AM  

mike_d85: Archie Goodwin: Dufus: Strange isn't it that back in the eighties we ran gas-o-hol in everything from lawnmowers to motorcycles and never noticed a problem. I actually ran nearly pure ethanol a couple of times with no problem.

Today's alcohol based fuels will destroy a small engine in no time if not treated with extra fuel stabilizers and additives. What are they mandating be formulated into that stuff that makes it so corrosive? I've already had two chainsaws, two generators, and a riding lawnmower nearly junked because of that nasty stuff.

I went to start my generator after Hurricane Issac and found white fibrous sludge clogging the fuel bowl and carburetor even though I ran it several times a month..What are they adding to the mix that we don't know about?

Only thing I can think of - Lead.

Back in the 80's fuel had lead additives, now it probably doesn't. What they replaced it with I have no idea.

Lead was freaking awesome for everything. That paint won't come off, the gas won't go bad, and your car's radiator will never break.

Why did people have to CONSUME it?


Because it's oh so tasty.
 
2013-05-08 07:19:42 AM  
Faux News is retarded, as usual.

Ethanol is only a problem in cars for 3 reasons:
1) If you have rust in your gas tank or lines (i.e.  older vehicles, or vehicles still using metal-lined gas tanks) the ethanol can act as a solvent, knocking it lose and running it through your engine and causing mechanical failure or damage. Ethanol has also shown slight potential to be corrosive to aluminum, however most of that extends from the aforementioned fact.

2) Ethanol burns at a higher temperature than typical unleaded gasoline. It also gells at lower temperatures reducing vapor volume- which is why diesel engines (lacking spark plugs for initiation) have some difficulty starting in climates with lower pressure and lower temperature (such as in the Rocky Mountains). The 'wait to start' is from a glowplug using battery power to warm the air within the cylinders to counteract this. Most unleaded vehicles don't have to worry because of the use of spark plugs.

3) Reduction in fuel economy.

Ethanol was never intended to be a permanent solution; just a quick fix to alleviate dependency on foreign oil. Any other questions should be directed to your local mechanic.
 
2013-05-08 07:21:07 AM  

scumshine: /what, no Fr. Jack?


He was devoured by those evil satanic flesh eating immigrants at the BBC!
 
2013-05-08 07:21:40 AM  
Just buy your gas in China when you pop over for your light bulbs.
 
2013-05-08 07:21:52 AM  

Lando Lincoln: What would the world be like if all passenger cars just up and disappeared?


I vote we find out. I loved taking the train back when I could.
 
2013-05-08 07:23:27 AM  

Hobodeluxe: unlikely: This public service announcement brought to you by the Official Propaganda Arm of the Republican Party*.

*A wholly owned subsidiary of the Oil industry

wrong. they are only partially owned by big oil.
big pharma,big banks and any other kind of big money also control them.


Even if you complain about big oil owning them, this is a case of broken clock syndrome.  The time is now.  Of course I am assuming since I did not want to read the Faux News article.  There probably is some derp in there.  But this E15 is a bad idea.  We should do away with E10 at least until we switch to switchblade grass ethanol.
 
2013-05-08 07:24:06 AM  

log_jammin: remus: The whole thing is a fraud led by the massively funded ethanol companies

what is the fraud exactly?


That it helps save the planet
 
2013-05-08 07:26:22 AM  
They should be using that corn to make cows fatter.    Why are we not all driving cars powered by natural gas yet?
 
2013-05-08 07:26:30 AM  

prjindigo: There is one true statement in all of this.

If you go so far as to stupidly put gasoline containing alcohol into your DIESEL it will do about $10,000.00 worth of damage to the fuel system by the time you discover you were stupid.
Straight gasoline won't do that.

The more alcohol added to the fuel, the lower the octane.  Subby is a retard.


I'd like to find a passenger vehicle with a fuel delivery system worth $10,000 though I suspect you were just throwing that number out for effect.
You may want to rethink the idea of adding alcohol won't bump octane. It does and I'm not going to debate it. I'll just leave this LINK right here.
 
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