Chagrin: You don't need a lot of education to shovel asphalt or move traffic cones around.
whidbey: Taking money from cash-strapped schools for any reason is total bullshiat.I hope Michigan has the good sense to vote some of these farks out of office.
Felgraf: Welp, glad my current plan is "Do Physics in private industry or academia. When I get old, retire, teach highschool, be cool old physics teacher who doesn't have to take shiat from the parents."("Today we're going to learn about projectile motion... WITH THIS SCALED DOWN BALLISTA. TO THE FOOTBALL FIELD!")
Lord_Baull: whidbey: Taking money from cash-strapped schools for any reason is total bullshiat.I hope Michigan has the good sense to vote some of these farks out of office.oh-wait-your-serious.jpb
un4gvn666: GoldSpider: So they're eliminating sales tax on fuels, and offsetting that by increasing sales and fuel excise taxes for a zero net impact on the School Aid Fund.this_is_an_outrage.jpg?No. They're eliminating sales tax on fuels, and attempting to offset that by asking Michigan voters to vote for increasing sales and fuel excise taxes, something they surely will not do, since they already raised the sales tax by 2 points recently.This is simply the same old song from Republicans: cut education funding, dress up those cuts in budget gimmicks, and then pass them off as "necessary", without actually explaining why they are so.
sparkeyjames: GoldSpider: Karac: FTA: But wait. Look up to the top of the chart next to the "Revenue Losses" section. Under School Aid Fund (SAF), there's $770.1 million hit from the sales taxes being eliminated on fuels.Which is offset by other tax increases, which is clearly spelled out in the proposal summary. I don't see a conspiracy here.You must be one of those public education failures. Raising the general sales tax is a regressive tax on those who can least afford to pay it.
Sergeant Grumbles: GoldSpider: Which is offset by other tax increases, which is clearly spelled out in the proposal summary. I don't see a conspiracy here.You don't see the part where 2/3 of the legislature has to vote for the other tax increases?It seems pretty obvious what is happening. The one tax gets repealed, the other never gets enough support.It's a sneaky way to get around accusations of slashing school budgets, even though the effect is slashing school budgets.The Republicans have been doing this starve the beast bullshiat since I was in diapers.
MrEricSir: To add insult to injury, once these students graduate, they'll be in Michigan.
Chak: Michigan roads suck. You could close your eyes and know when you've left MI and entered into OH simply because the road becomes smoother. Some parts of Michigan are good places to live and the spring and summers here kick ass, too many people hear Michigan and think it's all like Flint, Detroit, and Saginaw.
StarlingFive: DarnoKonrad: Obviously this shouldn't come from schools, but Michigan has some of the worst roads I've ever seen. You have to see it to believe it. Their interstate system looks Detroit. The bridges haven't been painted since the 1950s and the concrete is so old it's brown with random chunks missing. Crossing the Michigan/Indiana line is hell on your suspension.It really is bad. Even the good parts are horrible compared to every other state I've been too.
meyerkev: /Though Livonia about 5 years ago decided to stop doing road maintenance and show removal. At this point, the roads are functionally gravel, and I don't go into the right lane because of the tire-removing potholes. If a bunch of towns did similar things, I can see how people would say that "MI sucks", and not "MI is kinda alright, but [Towns] suck".
Debeo Summa Credo: sparkeyjames: GoldSpider: Karac: FTA: But wait. Look up to the top of the chart next to the "Revenue Losses" section. Under School Aid Fund (SAF), there's $770.1 million hit from the sales taxes being eliminated on fuels.Which is offset by other tax increases, which is clearly spelled out in the proposal summary. I don't see a conspiracy here.You must be one of those public education failures. Raising the general sales tax is a regressive tax on those who can least afford to pay it.Although the definition can vary, sales tax isn't truly something that can be considered "regressive". The more you buy that is subject to income tax, the more you pay. Since richer people buy more stuff, they pay more sales tax. This effect is magnified because in most jurisdictions, staples such as unprepared food and housing aren't subject to sales tax, and these items make up a much higher percentage of a poor persons purchases than a rich persons.If you rank all taxes on a regressive to progressive scale, the ill agree its much less progressive than income tax.
Rik01: Man! I had to read that twice to fully grasp it. A wonderful example of political slight of hand.We caught something here that our previous city leaders had set into action years ago but outraged home owners put a stop to it. Seems they wanted to widen a heavily used road, which would take chunks of peoples front lawns away as the Right of Way, then push back even more to create a new Right of Way.So home owners would loose thousands of dollars in property.Twenty years earlier, a bridge on the road was rebuilt. No one could quite understand why the bridge was designed for 4 lane traffic on a two lane road. Back then, we were the summer home for the Dodgers and the bridge was right next to the stadium.The Dodgers left, after being here since the 50's. Housing along the road grew. A hurricane wiped out a high end mobile home park within walking distance of the stadium and it was abandoned. The Dodgers Golf Course built next to the stadium folded. However, industry within the area boomed.So, the city leaders decided to widen the road -- during one of the biggest economic slumps in the area and the full plans became exposed.After a two year battle with property owners along the length of the road, which included some wealthy families who stirred up their lawyers, the idea was abandoned.At least everyone now knew why, two decades ago, that unusually wide bridge was built.They widened another road instead -- and cleverly designed it so if you have car trouble, you can't pull off the thing due to the curbs and sharply angled drainage ditches they installed.Now, I wonder, what else they have up their sleeves that we don't know about? I'd never make a good politician. I can't think that deviously.
msupf: Like others have said here, money isn't the issue anymore for the roads, it's bad design and construction.Build the roads with concrete, build them deeper/thicker than they currently are, and they wouldn't disintegrate after every winter. Add in the fact that Michigan allows heavier freight loads on highways and major roads than nearly any other state, and there is no reason to be building roads and highways barely a foot thick and with a lot of asphalt.
meyerkev: And yeah, there's no way this plan is going to work. MI is never going to push sales tax as high as CA, especially when the Democrats (Regressive Tax) and Republicans (Taxes bad) are against it.
LibertyHiller: meyerkev: And yeah, there's no way this plan is going to work. MI is never going to push sales tax as high as CA, especially when the Democrats (Regressive Tax) and Republicans (Taxes bad) are against it.Kid, the California base rate of 7.5 percent simply isn't that much more onerous than Michigan's 6 percent. Even when one factors in local extras (BART, SFMTA, etc.) it's still not the vacuum suck on your cash that you make it out to be in thread after thread. If an extra buck or three in tax per $100 of consumption is that much of a burden to you, then maybe you're not making the coin you claim to be.Are you seriously trying to tell me that you moved to California not knowing this was a high-tax state? Because in 1979, even people who had no intention of visiting, much less moving here, knew that was the case. Your "gee, taxes are high here" act was old the first day you used it, and as I've shown you in thread after thread, it bears little relationship to reality./prays daily for earthquake to scare off all the lightweights
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