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(EclectaBlog)   Michigan children to have the best roads on which to ride school buses with no gas to schools with no teachers   (eclectablog.com) divider line 83
    More: Stupid, Michigan Republicans, Michigan, school bus, House Bill 4539, aviation fuel, Second Amendment Foundation, House Bill, regressive tax  
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1559 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 May 2013 at 4:58 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-07 03:21:18 PM  
So?

I fail to see why they would need an education if there are no jobs to be filled.  If future employment prospects are bleak,  why would you waste large amounts of tax dollars to teach these children?
 
2013-05-07 03:40:02 PM  
What's the point of going to school when they'll just get expelled for learning anyway?
 
2013-05-07 03:51:04 PM  
I'm sure they meant "for business tax cuts," not "road and bridge repair" anyway
 
2013-05-07 04:03:37 PM  
I say let em all go to Sunday school and let the churches sort em out!
 
2013-05-07 04:03:51 PM  
Never has "the world needs ditch diggers, too" been more appropriate.
 
2013-05-07 04:33:26 PM  
Michigan roads are pretty bad.
 
2013-05-07 04:50:12 PM  
This is low, Repubs.

Downright slimy. The way they factor in taxes increases which they will campaign against to offset their numbers is psychopathic.

Is Lex Luthor in charge these days?

Is the Legion of Doom actually in Michigan?

College kids from Michigan have told me that all they do is fark and meth. How sad.
 
2013-05-07 04:53:11 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: I fail to see why they would need an education if there are no jobs to be filled.


Because education helps create jobs, by making people better able to start new businesses.

Or at least, there's studies indicating that "the entrepreneur's level of education is positively associated with firm survival and growth (Bates, 1995; Hay and Ross, 1989; Cooper et al., 1989; Van de Ven et al., 1984)".
 
2013-05-07 05:02:01 PM  

abb3w: I_Am_Weasel: I fail to see why they would need an education if there are no jobs to be filled.

Because education helps create jobs, by making people better able to start new businesses.

Or at least, there's studies indicating that "the entrepreneur's level of education is positively associated with firm survival and growth (Bates, 1995; Hay and Ross, 1989; Cooper et al., 1989; Van de Ven et al., 1984)".


But you're really just setting them up for failure if you teach them how to think. What'll they think about? How they have no jobs, that's what. Better to conscript them into construction crews to build all these roads and bridges; it'll be cheaper than bidding it out.
 
2013-05-07 05:08:48 PM  
Good, less competition for home schooling.
 
2013-05-07 05:09:10 PM  
And Farkers criticize me for saying I categorically refuse to vote for a Republican for ANYTHING...

[twofacepalmsbecauseoneisnotenough.jpg]
 
2013-05-07 05:09:37 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Better to conscript them into construction crews to build all these roads and bridges; it'll be cheaper than bidding it out.


Best we imprison them first. It'll be cheaper to feed and house them that way.
 
2013-05-07 05:10:22 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: So?

I fail to see why they would need an education if there are no jobs to be filled.  If future employment prospects are bleak,  why would you waste large amounts of tax dollars to teach these children?


Obviously, it be better to sell them to hungry, British aristocrats...
 
2013-05-07 05:11:08 PM  
Sure. When you slash education you're ensuring another generation of hillbilly conservative dipwads. It works well here.
 
2013-05-07 05:19:23 PM  
You don't need a lot of education to shovel asphalt or move traffic cones around.
 
2013-05-07 05:23:33 PM  

Chagrin: You don't need a lot of education to shovel asphalt or move traffic cones around.


Aren't businesses insisting that they're so desperate for educated workers that they're forced to import them from other countries ?
 
2013-05-07 05:23:43 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: So?

I fail to see why they would need an education if there are no jobs to be filled.  If future employment prospects are bleak,  why would you waste large amounts of tax dollars to teach these children?


Wow, I've never met the intended product of the American public school system before.
 
2013-05-07 05:24:34 PM  
Republicans are chiseling away at education in every state they have their hands on, and they don't plan on stopping regardless of what happens to the state itself or on a national scale. Probably makes it easy to point at public education, go "look at how bad it is!", and funnel money and children to private schools instead.

And that's the scary part, it's NOT going to stop. As long as hard line Republicans get control of a state at a time, education spending is going to get lower and lower across the nation faster than anyone else can lift it up again. Public education will falter, higher education becomes nigh-unaffordable. That's it. I don't see a solution to this, we can't keep them all out of office.

The only thing I can imagine forestalling this trend is an irresistible block grant to the states contingent on maintaining a certain minimum percentage in public education funding, but they'd probably just force as much of it as possible to go to private schools and declare victory.
 
2013-05-07 05:26:36 PM  
Graduate and get jobs.. in that state?? lol good one bro
 
2013-05-07 05:28:13 PM  

Huggermugger: Chagrin: You don't need a lot of education to shovel asphalt or move traffic cones around.

Aren't businesses insisting that they're so desperate for educated workers that they're forced to import them from other countries ?


The trouble is they want to pay educated workers less than the asphalt shovelers.
 
2013-05-07 05:30:04 PM  
But they have enough surplus in the budget to enact a tax reduction for job creators.
 
2013-05-07 05:30:24 PM  

BlastYoBoots: Republicans are chiseling away at education in every state they have their hands on, and they don't plan on stopping regardless of what happens to the state itself or on a national scale. Probably makes it easy to point at public education, go "look at how bad it is!", and funnel money and children to private schools instead.

And that's the scary part, it's NOT going to stop. As long as hard line Republicans get control of a state at a time, education spending is going to get lower and lower across the nation faster than anyone else can lift it up again. Public education will falter, higher education becomes nigh-unaffordable. That's it. I don't see a solution to this, we can't keep them all out of office.

The only thing I can imagine forestalling this trend is an irresistible block grant to the states contingent on maintaining a certain minimum percentage in public education funding, but they'd probably just force as much of it as possible to go to private schools and declare victory.


Well, here's some good news:

Bobby Jindal's School Voucher Funding Ruled Unconstitutional By Louisiana Supreme Court

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/07/bobby-jindal-school-voucher s_ n_3231136.html
 
2013-05-07 05:31:01 PM  
The problem part is that anyone who is educated leaves the states. This is double true for higher edcuation grads. Pretty much everyone who gets a degree moves out of the state. Cause I mean shiat. Were down to choosing between public schools and public roadways. Thats how boned we are.

I guess the point being is that were boned either way. If we defund education were boned. If we fund education we effectively export an entire generation of our youth to anyplace else but Michigan.
 
2013-05-07 05:31:39 PM  
Obviously this shouldn't come from schools, but Michigan has some of the worst roads I've ever seen.  You have to see it to believe it.  Their interstate system looks Detroit.  The bridges haven't been painted since the 1950s and the concrete is so old it's brown with random chunks missing.  Crossing the Michigan/Indiana line is hell on your suspension.
 
2013-05-07 05:31:39 PM  

moothemagiccow: The trouble is they want to pay educated workers less than the asphalt shovelers.


While whining that the asphalt shovelers are illegal hispanics and/or get paid too much for standing around.
 
2013-05-07 05:36:41 PM  

DarnoKonrad: Obviously this shouldn't come from schools, but Michigan has some of the worst roads I've ever seen.  You have to see it to believe it.  Their interstate system looks Detroit.  The bridges haven't been painted since the 1950s and the concrete is so old it's brown with random chunks missing.  Crossing the Michigan/Indiana line is hell on your suspension.


It really is bad. Even the good parts are horrible compared to every other state I've been too.
 
2013-05-07 05:38:15 PM  

StarlingFive: The problem part is that anyone who is educated leaves the states. This is double true for higher edcuation grads. Pretty much everyone who gets a degree moves out of the state. Cause I mean shiat. Were down to choosing between public schools and public roadways. Thats how boned we are.

I guess the point being is that were boned either way. If we defund education were boned. If we fund education we effectively export an entire generation of our youth to anyplace else but Michigan.



Stop complaining. You got lower taxes. Which is really the most important factor right now.
 
2013-05-07 05:38:59 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: moothemagiccow: The trouble is they want to pay educated workers less than the asphalt shovelers.

While whining that the asphalt shovelers are illegal hispanics and/or get paid too much for standing around.


And complaining that asphalt shovelers have unions and probably own refrigerators . . .
 
2013-05-07 05:42:51 PM  

HighOnCraic: BlastYoBoots: Republicans are chiseling away at education in every state they have their hands on, and they don't plan on stopping regardless of what happens to the state itself or on a national scale. Probably makes it easy to point at public education, go "look at how bad it is!", and funnel money and children to private schools instead.

And that's the scary part, it's NOT going to stop. As long as hard line Republicans get control of a state at a time, education spending is going to get lower and lower across the nation faster than anyone else can lift it up again. Public education will falter, higher education becomes nigh-unaffordable. That's it. I don't see a solution to this, we can't keep them all out of office.

The only thing I can imagine forestalling this trend is an irresistible block grant to the states contingent on maintaining a certain minimum percentage in public education funding, but they'd probably just force as much of it as possible to go to private schools and declare victory.

Well, here's some good news:

Bobby Jindal's School Voucher Funding Ruled Unconstitutional By Louisiana Supreme Court

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/07/bobby-jindal-school-voucher s_ n_3231136.html


That's a heartening little victory. I wish I could be happier about it, though: as you saw in that article, Jindal swore he'd find a way to pay for it out of the budget somehow. So it may not be starving public schools (which is great for the moment), but the public fund will likely keep getting cuts, and Jindal - as he's want to do - will probably just regressively raise sales taxes to funnel money from everyone else to these private schools regardless.

No bottom is acceptable to these people but the very bottom itself.
 
2013-05-07 05:43:05 PM  

HighOnCraic: Sergeant Grumbles: moothemagiccow: The trouble is they want to pay educated workers less than the asphalt shovelers.

While whining that the asphalt shovelers are illegal hispanics and/or get paid too much for standing around.

And complaining that asphalt shovelers have unions and probably own refrigerators . . .


Nothing does seem to upset people like union workers with refrigerators. Although the usual talking point I see is "flat screen TVs".
 
2013-05-07 05:43:13 PM  
Because real companies want to locate to places with good schools, even if it's so the CEO and top staff can send their kids there.

But Michigan could try for prisons. Guantanamo is in the news.
 
2013-05-07 05:44:14 PM  

DarnoKonrad: Obviously this shouldn't come from schools, but Michigan has some of the worst roads I've ever seen.  You have to see it to believe it.  Their interstate system looks Detroit.  The bridges haven't been painted since the 1950s and the concrete is so old it's brown with random chunks missing.  Crossing the Michigan/Indiana line is hell on your suspension.


FTA: But wait. Look up to the top of the chart next to the "Revenue Losses" section. Under School Aid Fund (SAF), there's $770.1 million hit from the sales taxes being eliminated on fuels.

The shouldn't have come from schools because it didn't have to come from anywhere.  This isn't money that they decided would be better spent elsewhere, it's money they decided they didn't need in the first place.
 
2013-05-07 05:44:44 PM  

HighOnCraic: Sergeant Grumbles: moothemagiccow: The trouble is they want to pay educated workers less than the asphalt shovelers.

While whining that the asphalt shovelers are illegal hispanics and/or get paid too much for standing around.

And complaining that asphalt shovelers have unions and probably own refrigerators . . .


You guys have your priorities backwards. All measures are acceptable as long as quarterly earnings targets are met. Management must get their bonuses.
 
2013-05-07 05:46:45 PM  
If only there was a system they could implement by which funds could be raised from a portion of the sales of products users of roads and bridges utilize everyday, such as gasoline.  Alas, to my knowledge no such means exist to levy funds like that.
 
Ehh
2013-05-07 05:51:35 PM  
They can push the bus like I had to when I was in school, and it's better there are no union thugs brainwashing those poor kids with that commie "learning" stuff for hours every day.
 
2013-05-07 05:51:48 PM  
I have a theory that what the republicans are doing is setting up the education system fails and that we have young adults in and out of prison-for-profit systems, like that judge in PA got in trouble for.
 
2013-05-07 05:52:32 PM  
Hey Michigan....race to you the bottom


/Wisconsin aka Wississippi

//teaparty Gov's rule!!
 
2013-05-07 05:54:35 PM  

HighOnCraic: I_Am_Weasel: So?

I fail to see why they would need an education if there are no jobs to be filled.  If future employment prospects are bleak,  why would you waste large amounts of tax dollars to teach these children?

Obviously, it would be better to sell them to hungry, British aristocrats...


D'oh!
 
2013-05-07 05:55:55 PM  
Obviously, some billionaire wants the road to be smooth as glass so he can enjoy his weekly limousine ride to point and laugh at the peasants.
 
2013-05-07 05:56:19 PM  
Really who looks at money spent on education and goes "eh, there's too much of that"
 
2013-05-07 05:56:34 PM  
So they're eliminating sales tax on fuels, and offsetting that by increasing sales and fuel excise taxes for a zero net impact on the School Aid Fund.

this_is_an_outrage.jpg?
 
2013-05-07 05:58:20 PM  

Karac: FTA: But wait. Look up to the top of the chart next to the "Revenue Losses" section. Under School Aid Fund (SAF), there's $770.1 million hit from the sales taxes being eliminated on fuels.


Which is offset by other tax increases, which is clearly spelled out in the proposal summary.  I don't see a conspiracy here.
 
2013-05-07 06:00:30 PM  

HighOnCraic: I_Am_Weasel: So?

I fail to see why they would need an education if there are no jobs to be filled.  If future employment prospects are bleak,  why would you waste large amounts of tax dollars to teach these children?

Obviously, it be better to sell them to hungry, British aristocrats...


That sounds like a modest proposal to me.
 
2013-05-07 06:00:49 PM  

TV's Vinnie: Obviously, some billionaire wants the road to be smooth as glass so he can enjoy his weekly limousine ride to point and laugh at the peasants.


I'm sure they're eager to hand these repair contracts out to friends/family/campaign donors of theirs as well.
 
Bf+
2013-05-07 06:03:11 PM  
Copy: Michigan
Paste: Wisconsin

/Thanks a lot Teabaggers.
 
2013-05-07 06:05:50 PM  

GoldSpider: So they're eliminating sales tax on fuels, and offsetting that by increasing sales and fuel excise taxes for a zero net impact on the School Aid Fund.

this_is_an_outrage.jpg?


No. They're eliminating sales tax on fuels, and attempting to offset that by asking Michigan voters to vote for increasing sales and fuel excise taxes, something they surely will not do, since they already raised the sales tax by 2 points recently.

This is simply the same old song from Republicans: cut education funding, dress up those cuts in budget gimmicks, and then pass them off as "necessary", without actually explaining why they are so.
 
2013-05-07 06:06:56 PM  

GoldSpider: Which is offset by other tax increases, which is clearly spelled out in the proposal summary. I don't see a conspiracy here.


You don't see the part where 2/3 of the legislature has to vote for the other tax increases?
It seems pretty obvious what is happening. The one tax gets repealed, the other never gets enough support.
It's a sneaky way to get around accusations of slashing school budgets, even though the effect is slashing school budgets.
The Republicans have been doing this starve the beast bullshiat since I was in diapers.
 
2013-05-07 06:10:26 PM  

GoldSpider: Karac: FTA: But wait. Look up to the top of the chart next to the "Revenue Losses" section. Under School Aid Fund (SAF), there's $770.1 million hit from the sales taxes being eliminated on fuels.

Which is offset by other tax increases, which is clearly spelled out in the proposal summary.  I don't see a conspiracy here.


You must be one of those public education failures. Raising the general sales tax is a regressive tax on those who can least afford to pay it.
 
2013-05-07 06:13:31 PM  

GoldSpider: Karac: FTA: But wait. Look up to the top of the chart next to the "Revenue Losses" section. Under School Aid Fund (SAF), there's $770.1 million hit from the sales taxes being eliminated on fuels.

Which is offset by other tax increases, which is clearly spelled out in the proposal summary.  I don't see a conspiracy here.


According to the article: one bill eliminates the gas tax, cause the $770 million drop in school funding - that funding would only be restored by a different bill, which must independently pass by a 2/3rd votes in both the House and Senate ALONG with passing on a referendum.

And reading the actual summary of the linked bills I don't see the tax increase mentioned anywhere, which makes it even less possible.

The current makeup of the state government makes the cut all but assured, and gives restoring the funds about as much chance as a snowball exiting Satan's fiery asshole.
 
2013-05-07 06:14:32 PM  

GoldSpider: So they're eliminating sales tax on fuels, and offsetting that by increasing sales and fuel excise taxes for a zero net impact on the School Aid Fund.

this_is_an_outrage.jpg?



Want to know how I know you didnt' read the article?
 
2013-05-07 06:16:02 PM  
Welp, glad my current plan is "Do Physics in private industry or academia. When I get old, retire, teach highschool, be cool old physics teacher who doesn't have to take shiat from the parents."

("Today we're going to learn about projectile motion... WITH THIS SCALED DOWN BALLISTA. TO THE FOOTBALL FIELD!")
 
2013-05-07 06:17:14 PM  
Taking money from cash-strapped schools for any reason is total bullshiat.

I hope Michigan has the good sense to vote some of these farks out of office.
 
2013-05-07 06:17:57 PM  
To add insult to injury, once these students graduate, they'll be in Michigan.
 
2013-05-07 06:20:28 PM  
Well that's a shiatty headline.
 
2013-05-07 06:21:57 PM  

Chagrin: You don't need a lot of education to shovel asphalt or move traffic cones around.


Just a bachelor's and five years existing experience with business-proprietary tools.
 
2013-05-07 06:22:11 PM  

whidbey: Taking money from cash-strapped schools for any reason is total bullshiat.

I hope Michigan has the good sense to vote some of these farks out of office.


oh-wait-your-serious.jpb
 
2013-05-07 06:23:17 PM  
Duh, it is much easier to extract graft from construction projects than education.

Also how many state legislators are somehow involved in the construction industry?
 
2013-05-07 06:24:22 PM  
sometimes the solution is right in front of you.
why not fix the roads then conduct class on the new roads?

/is our kids learning?
//not if the (R)'s have their way.
 
2013-05-07 06:27:23 PM  

Felgraf: Welp, glad my current plan is "Do Physics in private industry or academia. When I get old, retire, teach highschool, be cool old physics teacher who doesn't have to take shiat from the parents."

("Today we're going to learn about projectile motion... WITH THIS SCALED DOWN BALLISTA. TO THE FOOTBALL FIELD!")


Why scale it down?  I think building a ballista would be a great project for the shop class.
Personally, I'd go for a pumpkin chunkin' trebuchet.
 
2013-05-07 06:30:08 PM  

Lord_Baull: whidbey: Taking money from cash-strapped schools for any reason is total bullshiat.

I hope Michigan has the good sense to vote some of these farks out of office.

oh-wait-your-serious.jpb


Just like Minnesota. THEY'RE GONNA VOTE OUT MICHELLE BACHMANN.

*breathing hard*
 
2013-05-07 06:38:18 PM  

Felgraf: Welp, glad my current plan is "Do Physics in private industry or academia. When I get old, retire, teach highschool, be cool old physics teacher who doesn't have to take shiat from the parents."

("Today we're going to learn about projectile motion... WITH THIS SCALED DOWN BALLISTA. TO THE FOOTBALL FIELD!")


My high school physics teacher was one of those. Most demonstrations involved flaming projectiles launched at balloons filled with hydrogen.  He lit the hall carpeting on fire once.  It was a great class (apart from being too early).
 
2013-05-07 06:42:38 PM  

un4gvn666: GoldSpider: So they're eliminating sales tax on fuels, and offsetting that by increasing sales and fuel excise taxes for a zero net impact on the School Aid Fund.

this_is_an_outrage.jpg?

No. They're eliminating sales tax on fuels, and attempting to offset that by asking Michigan voters to vote for increasing sales and fuel excise taxes, something they surely will not do, since they already raised the sales tax by 2 points recently.

This is simply the same old song from Republicans: cut education funding, dress up those cuts in budget gimmicks, and then pass them off as "necessary", without actually explaining why they are so.


I believe TFA is saying that they are actually doing it this way hoping to raise sales taxes, which will result in higher taxes and higher overall spending (no change to education and extra money for infrastructure).

I would have thought farklibs would be on board with this given they keep calling for higher taxes and higher infrastructure spending.
 
2013-05-07 06:46:33 PM  
Well, if the bus never comes, then No Child is left Behind.
 
2013-05-07 06:51:45 PM  

sparkeyjames: GoldSpider: Karac: FTA: But wait. Look up to the top of the chart next to the "Revenue Losses" section. Under School Aid Fund (SAF), there's $770.1 million hit from the sales taxes being eliminated on fuels.

Which is offset by other tax increases, which is clearly spelled out in the proposal summary.  I don't see a conspiracy here.

You must be one of those public education failures. Raising the general sales tax is a regressive tax on those who can least afford to pay it.


Although the definition can vary, sales tax isn't truly something that can be considered "regressive". The more you buy that is subject to income tax, the more you pay. Since richer people buy more stuff, they pay more sales tax. This effect is magnified because in most jurisdictions, staples such as unprepared food and housing aren't subject to sales tax, and these items make up a much higher percentage of a poor persons purchases than a rich persons.

If you rank all taxes on a regressive to progressive scale, the ill agree its much less progressive than income tax.
 
2013-05-07 07:05:44 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: GoldSpider: Which is offset by other tax increases, which is clearly spelled out in the proposal summary. I don't see a conspiracy here.

You don't see the part where 2/3 of the legislature has to vote for the other tax increases?
It seems pretty obvious what is happening. The one tax gets repealed, the other never gets enough support.
It's a sneaky way to get around accusations of slashing school budgets, even though the effect is slashing school budgets.
The Republicans have been doing this starve the beast bullshiat since I was in diapers.


Next Week's GOP talking point: Democrats trying to raise sales taxes in Michigan at the behest of Teachers Unions.
 
2013-05-07 07:12:12 PM  

MrEricSir: To add insult to injury, once these students graduate, they'll be in Michigan.


Ann Arbor is pretty nice.  Traverse City is very near some surprisingly good skiing and scenery.
 
2013-05-07 07:20:36 PM  
With the exception of Detroit, Flint, and a handful of other cities, Michigan is an awesome place. Nowhere better than the northern part of the state in the summer.
 
2013-05-07 07:23:00 PM  
Man! I had to read that twice to fully grasp it. A wonderful example of political slight of hand.

We caught something here that our previous city leaders had set into action years ago but outraged home owners put a stop to it. Seems they wanted to widen a heavily used road, which would take chunks of peoples front lawns away as the Right of Way, then push back even more to create a new Right of Way.

So home owners would loose thousands of dollars in property.

Twenty years earlier, a bridge on the road was rebuilt. No one could quite understand why the bridge was designed for 4 lane traffic on a two lane road. Back then, we were the summer home for the Dodgers and the bridge was right next to the stadium.

The Dodgers left, after being here since the 50's. Housing along the road grew. A hurricane wiped out a high end mobile home park within walking distance of the stadium and it was abandoned. The Dodgers Golf Course built next to the stadium folded. However, industry within the area boomed.

So, the city leaders decided to widen the road -- during one of the biggest economic slumps in the area and the full plans became exposed.

After a two year battle with property owners along the length of the road, which included some wealthy families who stirred up their lawyers, the idea was abandoned.

At least everyone now knew why, two decades ago, that unusually wide bridge was built.

They widened another road instead -- and cleverly designed it so if you have car trouble, you can't pull off the thing due to the curbs and sharply angled drainage ditches they installed.

Now, I wonder, what else they have up their sleeves that we don't know about? I'd never make a good politician. I can't think that deviously.
 
2013-05-07 07:28:09 PM  
Michigan roads suck. You could close your eyes and know when you've left MI and entered into OH simply because the road becomes smoother. Some parts of Michigan are good places to live and the spring and summers here kick ass, too many people hear Michigan and think it's all like Flint, Detroit, and Saginaw.
 
2013-05-07 07:37:13 PM  

Chak: Michigan roads suck. You could close your eyes and know when you've left MI and entered into OH simply because the road becomes smoother. Some parts of Michigan are good places to live and the spring and summers here kick ass, too many people hear Michigan and think it's all like Flint, Detroit, and Saginaw.


I always noticed that during trips to Canada in my youth. I'd be napping in the back seat and suddenly the road was smooth as glass. I'd look out the window and see the speed signs in KPH.
 
2013-05-07 08:24:38 PM  

StarlingFive: DarnoKonrad: Obviously this shouldn't come from schools, but Michigan has some of the worst roads I've ever seen.  You have to see it to believe it.  Their interstate system looks Detroit.  The bridges haven't been painted since the 1950s and the concrete is so old it's brown with random chunks missing.  Crossing the Michigan/Indiana line is hell on your suspension.

It really is bad. Even the good parts are horrible compared to every other state I've been too.


Given that I learned to drive there, so they're kind of my 'normal', they're not THAT bad given the weather.  It's rarely smooth (since every winter, the frost cracks the roads, and they usually patch instead of rebuild every single year), but I'm reasonably certain that as long as I stay out of Livonia, the roads will have patched cracks and filled-in potholes, but won't have gaping potholes.  I can also be reasonably certain that there won't be total gridlock (outside of rush hour, which wonder of wonders actually lasts ONE HOUR, and not ALL STINKING DAY) because they actually build enough roads for the local off-peak traffic.

At this point, I'd rather sit on ok roads with good traffic than good roads with awful traffic.

/Though Livonia about 5 years ago decided to stop doing road maintenance and show removal.  At this point, the roads are functionally gravel, and I don't go into the right lane because of the tire-removing potholes.  If a bunch of towns did similar things, I can see how people would say that "MI sucks", and not "MI is kinda alright, but [Towns] suck".
 
2013-05-07 08:38:08 PM  
And yeah, there's no way this plan is going to work.  MI is never going to push sales tax as high as CA, especially when the Democrats (Regressive Tax) and Republicans (Taxes bad) are against it.

Assuming that it does in fact pass, I'd expect to see:

A) A very quick trackback on the funding, or
B) Increased private school enrollment in the richer districts, increased local funding through various millages combined with some actual cuts to administration in the middle-class districts, and increased suckage in the poor districts (which is hard.  When you have to bring in rappers and pro sports teams (and according to urban legend, cash bribes) to get kids to show up for 1 day a year on Count Day, you have problems that can't just be solved by money.)
 
2013-05-07 09:12:08 PM  
What is there not to get?  Public schools don't work and it would be better for the economy if that money wasn't wasted by the government.  Teachers indoctrinate children with failed liberal elitist ideas every chance they get.  The whole country would be better off if those dirty, stupid poor kids were just home-schooled.  Hard working, REAL Americans should send their children to private schools that are forced to complete in the free market.

/sarcasm
 
2013-05-07 09:14:50 PM  
Well it is Michigan. I guess the schools can match the rest of the state in how awful it is to live there.
 
2013-05-07 09:52:15 PM  

whidbey: Taking money from cash-strapped schools for any reason is total bullshiat.

I hope Michigan has the good sense to vote some of these farks out of office.


Not much chance of that thanks to gerrymandering. The cities are blue but the sticks are bright red redneck Republican, and the cities are losing people left and right.

Long time ago, a Farker once called Michigan "the Arkansas of the north", and that's not entirely inaccurate.
 
2013-05-07 10:11:08 PM  

meyerkev: /Though Livonia about 5 years ago decided to stop doing road maintenance and show removal. At this point, the roads are functionally gravel, and I don't go into the right lane because of the tire-removing potholes. If a bunch of towns did similar things, I can see how people would say that "MI sucks", and not "MI is kinda alright, but [Towns] suck".


Rochester Hills, Hamlin Road, 2 weeks ago. The hole was so big in my tire that fix-a-flat didn't work. And I kept thinking "For God's sake, this is Rochester, not deepest darkest Flint!"

I'm glad that others in this thread have reassured me that I'm not crazy to think Michigan roads can be quite crappy (SE Michigan at least).
 
2013-05-07 11:04:10 PM  
I'm so sick of this.

Term limits mean a revolving door of inexperience legislators who never learn the art of the deal being pushed by lobbyists and influences from outside the state.

There are other options besides better roads and increasingly burdened public schools or increasingly lousy roads and public schools that are trying to prepare kids for the 21st century with 20th century funding; gridlock prevents reasonable compromise.
 
2013-05-07 11:08:55 PM  
Wast of time.
You could double the national debt and dump all that money into our roads, and it wouldn't make any difference.
Money doesn't fix stupid, and it doesn't fix lazy.
Who that applies to I leave to you to decide, since the road crews are ensuring future work by purposely doing it wrong every time.
 
2013-05-08 01:05:45 AM  
Like others have said here, money isn't the issue anymore for the roads, it's bad design and construction.

Build the roads with concrete, build them deeper/thicker than they currently are, and they wouldn't disintegrate after every winter. Add in the fact that Michigan allows heavier freight loads on highways and major roads than nearly any other state, and there is no reason to be building roads and highways barely a foot thick and with a lot of asphalt.
 
2013-05-08 07:09:09 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: sparkeyjames: GoldSpider: Karac: FTA: But wait. Look up to the top of the chart next to the "Revenue Losses" section. Under School Aid Fund (SAF), there's $770.1 million hit from the sales taxes being eliminated on fuels.

Which is offset by other tax increases, which is clearly spelled out in the proposal summary.  I don't see a conspiracy here.

You must be one of those public education failures. Raising the general sales tax is a regressive tax on those who can least afford to pay it.

Although the definition can vary, sales tax isn't truly something that can be considered "regressive". The more you buy that is subject to income tax, the more you pay. Since richer people buy more stuff, they pay more sales tax. This effect is magnified because in most jurisdictions, staples such as unprepared food and housing aren't subject to sales tax, and these items make up a much higher percentage of a poor persons purchases than a rich persons.

If you rank all taxes on a regressive to progressive scale, the ill agree its much less progressive than income tax.


To be fair, we should charge the same sales tax on everything. Gallon of milk? Sales tax of $10. 500-foot yacht? Sales tax of $10.
 
2013-05-08 07:56:22 AM  

Rik01: Man! I had to read that twice to fully grasp it. A wonderful example of political slight of hand.

We caught something here that our previous city leaders had set into action years ago but outraged home owners put a stop to it. Seems they wanted to widen a heavily used road, which would take chunks of peoples front lawns away as the Right of Way, then push back even more to create a new Right of Way.

So home owners would loose thousands of dollars in property.

Twenty years earlier, a bridge on the road was rebuilt. No one could quite understand why the bridge was designed for 4 lane traffic on a two lane road. Back then, we were the summer home for the Dodgers and the bridge was right next to the stadium.

The Dodgers left, after being here since the 50's. Housing along the road grew. A hurricane wiped out a high end mobile home park within walking distance of the stadium and it was abandoned. The Dodgers Golf Course built next to the stadium folded. However, industry within the area boomed.

So, the city leaders decided to widen the road -- during one of the biggest economic slumps in the area and the full plans became exposed.

After a two year battle with property owners along the length of the road, which included some wealthy families who stirred up their lawyers, the idea was abandoned.

At least everyone now knew why, two decades ago, that unusually wide bridge was built.

They widened another road instead -- and cleverly designed it so if you have car trouble, you can't pull off the thing due to the curbs and sharply angled drainage ditches they installed.

Now, I wonder, what else they have up their sleeves that we don't know about? I'd never make a good politician. I can't think that deviously.


Something a little similar here in Kalamazoo.  There is a fairly well travelled road that they wanted to expand to 5 lanes.  They then hit every house on that road with around an 8k tax bill to pay for it.  Understandably, these people were pretty upset at losing their yards while paying a large tax bill for a road that a lot of different people use.
 
2013-05-08 10:19:26 AM  

msupf: Like others have said here, money isn't the issue anymore for the roads, it's bad design and construction.

Build the roads with concrete, build them deeper/thicker than they currently are, and they wouldn't disintegrate after every winter. Add in the fact that Michigan allows heavier freight loads on highways and major roads than nearly any other state, and there is no reason to be building roads and highways barely a foot thick and with a lot of asphalt.


Those Michigan heavies are lighter on a per-axle basis, which is less damaging. 164,000 pounds over 11 axles is a lot easier on the road than 80,000 on five axles.


meyerkev: And yeah, there's no way this plan is going to work. MI is never going to push sales tax as high as CA, especially when the Democrats (Regressive Tax) and Republicans (Taxes bad) are against it.


Kid, the California base rate of 7.5 percent simply isn't that much more onerous than Michigan's 6 percent. Even when one factors in local extras (BART, SFMTA, etc.) it's still not the vacuum suck on your cash that you make it out to be in thread after thread. If an extra buck or three in tax per $100 of consumption is that much of a burden to you, then maybe you're not making the coin you claim to be.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that you moved to California not knowing this was a high-tax state? Because in 1979, even people who had no intention of visiting, much less moving here, knew that was the case. Your "gee, taxes are high here" act was old the first day you used it, and as I've shown you in thread after thread, it bears little relationship to reality.

/prays daily for earthquake to scare off all the lightweights
 
2013-05-08 12:31:37 PM  

LibertyHiller: meyerkev: And yeah, there's no way this plan is going to work. MI is never going to push sales tax as high as CA, especially when the Democrats (Regressive Tax) and Republicans (Taxes bad) are against it.

Kid, the California base rate of 7.5 percent simply isn't that much more onerous than Michigan's 6 percent. Even when one factors in local extras (BART, SFMTA, etc.) it's still not the vacuum suck on your cash that you make it out to be in thread after thread. If an extra buck or three in tax per $100 of consumption is that much of a burden to you, then maybe you're not making the coin you claim to be.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that you moved to California not knowing this was a high-tax state? Because in 1979, even people who had no intention of visiting, much less moving here, knew that was the case. Your "gee, taxes are high here" act was old the first day you used it, and as I've shown you in thread after thread, it bears little relationship to reality.

/prays daily for earthquake to scare off all the lightweights


Yup...this place is HORRIBLE! Earthquakes...brown people...confiscatory taxes...runaway sozhulizm...stay away if you know what's good for you!
 
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