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(io9)   The Periodic Table of Middle-Earth   (io9.com) divider line 41
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6804 clicks; posted to Geek » on 07 May 2013 at 12:13 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-07 09:46:22 AM  
gimme some of that element 16 tabac
 
2013-05-07 10:35:44 AM  
Meh. It has no organization beyond lumping races. This guy really only rings up about a 5 on the nerd scale.

It would have been more interesting if they'd shown some understanding of the characters and grouped them according to characteristics. For example, Gollum, Saruman and Gandalf could be on the highly reactive side, since they have power and activity that moves the plot along, while "anchor" characters, like Hamfast Gamgee and some of the duller Elves would be on the non-reactive side. Or you could go by magicality or evilness, etc. Tons of nerd opportunity missed here.
 
2013-05-07 11:18:11 AM  
As a chemist, I think that making "Periodic Tables of Whatever" is a stupid idea. You never have enough things to properly characterize so you start making shiat up to fill it out, then the whole organization falls apart -- especially when you try to force the table into the shape of the elemental table. It just comes across as saying "Look at me, I'm such a nerd!"
 
2013-05-07 12:17:25 PM  

Donnchadha: As a chemist, I think that making "Periodic Tables of Whatever" is a stupid idea. You never have enough things to properly characterize so you start making shiat up to fill it out, then the whole organization falls apart -- especially when you try to force the table into the shape of the elemental table. It just comes across as saying "Look at me, I'm such a nerd!"


I'd snark, but I agree completely. The Periodic Table looks the way it is organically, because that's how everything lines up. When you don't have universal units of measurement across all elements, then you don't really have a periodic table. You just have TFA.
 
2013-05-07 12:37:12 PM  
Where is the most rare element to a LOTR fan: Wo - Woman?
 
2013-05-07 12:46:21 PM  
His failure to include the Blue Wizards renders this entire periodic table a sham.
 
2013-05-07 12:46:46 PM  

MichiganFTL: Where is the most rare element to a LOTR fan: Wo - Woman?


It hasn't been discovered yet
 
2013-05-07 12:47:26 PM  
My first thought when seeing one of these is, "What kind of orbital shells are they following? Oh, none."

I wasn't going to even look at it, but then I figured maybe they would use some elvish or dwarfish letters to give it a shred of creativity - nope. One time he did stray from deriving the symbol directly from its name - for Goldberry the symbol is Au.

The periodic table of elements uses English and Latin to create the atomic symbols - any periodic table, in my opinion, should use multiple sources to create the symbols. Especially instead of going out to three letters, as this guy did five times.

Does the atomic number mean anything at all in this? Why have it listed?

I give this a 3/10 on the nerd scale. +1s only for using a nerdy topic, having a good understanding of that topic, and using a nerdy format, but zero points for execution.
 
2013-05-07 12:49:37 PM  
Dumb. I thought it would involve substances. Wanted to look at the atomic weight of mithril or meteoric iron.

/the meteoric iron might look back
 
2013-05-07 12:51:22 PM  

MrBallou: Meh. It has no organization beyond lumping races. This guy really only rings up about a 5 on the nerd scale.

It would have been more interesting if they'd shown some understanding of the characters and grouped them according to characteristics. For example, Gollum, Saruman and Gandalf could be on the highly reactive side, since they have power and activity that moves the plot along, while "anchor" characters, like Hamfast Gamgee and some of the duller Elves would be on the non-reactive side. Or you could go by magicality or evilness, etc. Tons of nerd opportunity missed here.


If it was any good, it wouldn't be on io9.
 
2013-05-07 12:53:23 PM  
Tired of getting laid all the time, Emil Johansson, a devoted Tolkien fan and an aspiring chemical engineer, created this periodic table of Middle Earth, replacing the standard chemical elements with characters from Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.
 
2013-05-07 12:54:02 PM  

blahpers: Dumb. I thought it would involve substances. Wanted to look at the atomic weight of mithril or meteoric iron.

/the meteoric iron might look back


Me too, I was very disappointed.
 
2013-05-07 12:54:03 PM  

paswa17: Does the atomic number mean anything at all in this? Why have it listed?


That. They probably should've gone with page number or paragraph number of first appearance or something. That could've led to an interesting and natural periodicity, too, rather than just "let's lump everything by race".
 
2013-05-07 12:57:18 PM  

blahpers: Dumb. I thought it would involve substances. Wanted to look at the atomic weight of mithril or meteoric iron.

/the meteoric iron might look back


I propose that the abbreviation of meteoric iron should be "An"
 
2013-05-07 12:57:18 PM  
Cock goblin?

freestylegamers.webs.com
 
2013-05-07 12:59:33 PM  

MrBallou: Meh. It has no organization beyond lumping races. This guy really only rings up about a 5 on the nerd scale.

It would have been more interesting if they'd shown some understanding of the characters and grouped them according to characteristics. For example, Gollum, Saruman and Gandalf could be on the highly reactive side, since they have power and activity that moves the plot along, while "anchor" characters, like Hamfast Gamgee and some of the duller Elves would be on the non-reactive side. Or you could go by magicality or evilness, etc. Tons of nerd opportunity missed here.


The heavies - badass competent plot-driving characters - should be at the bottom, and the light comic-relief (ie, every Hobbit who didn't leave the Shire) should be at the top)
 
2013-05-07 01:20:29 PM  
I don't remember Samwise being a ringbearer. When did that happen?
 
2013-05-07 01:40:51 PM  
Periodic Table of FAIL
 
2013-05-07 01:46:26 PM  

bigheadface: I don't remember Samwise being a ringbearer. When did that happen?


Sam carried the Ring after Shelob paralyzed Frodo.
 
2013-05-07 01:48:48 PM  
LZeitgeist:
bigheadface: I don't remember Samwise being a ringbearer. When did that happen?

Sam carried the Ring after Shelob paralyzed Frodo.


Oh yeah. Thanks.
 
2013-05-07 02:36:56 PM  
I, too, was hoping to find out the atomic weight of mithril. Seriously, stuff like the Silmarils and so on sound like they'd make interesting additions to the usual periodic table. Why not?
 
2013-05-07 02:41:06 PM  

Donnchadha: As a chemist, I think that making "Periodic Tables of Whatever" is a stupid idea.


I was expecting an actual chart showing "Mithril" and the substance the Silmarils were made of in addition to more mundane elements explicitly mentioned in the series, such as gold and iron.
 
2013-05-07 02:52:18 PM  
I was going to refrain from commenting simply because I was disappointed with the apparent ignorance of TFA to WHY the PToE is sahped that way, but I appear to be in good company. I like the idea of character mapping LOTR, but the author should have chosen something that in some way could be relatable to the sheer brilliance that is the PToE. This is a list of characters, grouped by race. Excel would have been a better format.

MrBallou: It would have been more interesting if they'd shown some understanding of the characters and grouped them according to characteristics. For example, Gollum, Saruman and Gandalf could be on the highly reactive side, since they have power and activity that moves the plot along, while "anchor" characters, like Hamfast Gamgee and some of the duller Elves would be on the non-reactive side. Or you could go by magicality or evilness, etc. Tons of nerd opportunity missed here.


I was definitely thinking along these lines. I am easily just as underwhelmed as the rest of you. Sadly, it's the kind of thing my wife would buy me as a t-shirt simply because it has the appearance of credible effort and knowledge. I give it a solid 3 of 10, all of which is effort.

paswa17: ...I  figured maybe they would use some elvish or dwarfish letters to give it a shred of creativity - nope. One time he did stray from deriving the symbol directly from its name - for Goldberry the symbol is Au.

The periodic table of elements uses English and Latin to create the atomic symbols - any periodic table, in my opinion, should use multiple sources to create the symbols. Especially instead of going out to three letters, as this guy did five times.


Solid critique. High score on effort only, failing marks on execution in every way.
 
2013-05-07 03:05:54 PM  
One could also think about it in terms of ring sensitivity. Frodo is like platinum, he is something of a catalyst, who acts on the ring but is resistant to changing by it. Maybe as it gets to him it's like hydrogen fatigue or something. All the men are easily corroded by the ring. The elves are somewhere in the middle. There is all kinds of potential for the +1 -1 valencies for pairs of characters that interact and bond. Frodo and Sam would have to covalent bond, but maybe Legolas and Gimli could be an ionic bond. Volatile characters like gollum could be sodium.. combine him with the wrong thing and he explodes. There are so many opportunities and this guy didn't even try very hard. As implemented, this is a dumb idea, there is so much richness to the PT and he just mimicked it's shape.

\pretty obvious he ain't a chem e yet.
\\chem e nerd snobbery
 
2013-05-07 03:50:14 PM  
I came here for a debate about whether mithril is aluminum.
 
2013-05-07 04:03:30 PM  
Arwen and her brothers aren't half-elves.
 
2013-05-07 04:44:51 PM  

JammerJim: Arwen and her brothers aren't half-elves.


I mean, by modern genetics, you're right. Arwen's mother was pure elf, and her dad Elrond was a part-elf who chose to live in the world of elves. But Arwen, as Elrond's daughter, was placed in the category of half-elves as a being that could choose to live in the world of man, or the world of elves. "Half-elf" isn't a genetic descriptor, but rather a term to denote the beings with that choice.

As far as Arwen's genetic make-up, that's WAAAAY more complicated. As I said, her mom, Celebrían, was pure elf. That makes her at least half-elf. Daddy Elrond has a far more complex lineage however. Elrond's father was half-elf. His mother was 1/4 human, 1/8 Maia, and 5/8 elf. This would make Elrond9/16 elf, 3/8 human, and 1/16 Maia.

This would make Arwen 25/32 elf, 3/16 human, and 1/32 Maia. Now if you really want to get crazy, try to figure out the genetic makeup of any kids of Arwen and Aragorn (and don't you forget that Aragorn has some elvish lineage!!!).
 
2013-05-07 05:17:04 PM  

Supes: JammerJim: Arwen and her brothers aren't half-elves.

I mean, by modern genetics, you're right. Arwen's mother was pure elf, and her dad Elrond was a part-elf who chose to live in the world of elves. But Arwen, as Elrond's daughter, was placed in the category of half-elves as a being that could choose to live in the world of man, or the world of elves. "Half-elf" isn't a genetic descriptor, but rather a term to denote the beings with that choice.

As far as Arwen's genetic make-up, that's WAAAAY more complicated. As I said, her mom, Celebrían, was pure elf. That makes her at least half-elf. Daddy Elrond has a far more complex lineage however. Elrond's father was half-elf. His mother was 1/4 human, 1/8 Maia, and 5/8 elf. This would make Elrond9/16 elf, 3/8 human, and 1/16 Maia.

This would make Arwen 25/32 elf, 3/16 human, and 1/32 Maia. Now if you really want to get crazy, try to figure out the genetic makeup of any kids of Arwen and Aragorn (and don't you forget that Aragorn has some elvish lineage!!!).


[ScannersHeadExplode.jpg]
 
2013-05-07 05:18:18 PM  

Supes: JammerJim: Arwen and her brothers aren't half-elves.

I mean, by modern genetics, you're right. Arwen's mother was pure elf, and her dad Elrond was a part-elf who chose to live in the world of elves. But Arwen, as Elrond's daughter, was placed in the category of half-elves as a being that could choose to live in the world of man, or the world of elves. "Half-elf" isn't a genetic descriptor, but rather a term to denote the beings with that choice.

As far as Arwen's genetic make-up, that's WAAAAY more complicated. As I said, her mom, Celebrían, was pure elf. That makes her at least half-elf. Daddy Elrond has a far more complex lineage however. Elrond's father was half-elf. His mother was 1/4 human, 1/8 Maia, and 5/8 elf. This would make Elrond9/16 elf, 3/8 human, and 1/16 Maia.

This would make Arwen 25/32 elf, 3/16 human, and 1/32 Maia. Now if you really want to get crazy, try to figure out the genetic makeup of any kids of Arwen and Aragorn (and don't you forget that Aragorn has some elvish lineage!!!).




There are posts about arranging the ptoe, atomic weight, whether mithril is alluminum, and characters and their reactivity to the ring, but you, hands down, win the nerdiest post. Well done, sir.
 
2013-05-07 06:02:47 PM  
You know, I'll all for cool, geeky shiat.  But in this case:

ibankcoin.com
 
2013-05-07 06:21:16 PM  

Supes: JammerJim: Arwen and her brothers aren't half-elves.

I mean, by modern genetics, you're right. Arwen's mother was pure elf, and her dad Elrond was a part-elf who chose to live in the world of elves. But Arwen, as Elrond's daughter, was placed in the category of half-elves as a being that could choose to live in the world of man, or the world of elves. "Half-elf" isn't a genetic descriptor, but rather a term to denote the beings with that choice.

As far as Arwen's genetic make-up, that's WAAAAY more complicated. As I said, her mom, Celebrían, was pure elf. That makes her at least half-elf. Daddy Elrond has a far more complex lineage however. Elrond's father was half-elf. His mother was 1/4 human, 1/8 Maia, and 5/8 elf. This would make Elrond9/16 elf, 3/8 human, and 1/16 Maia.

This would make Arwen 25/32 elf, 3/16 human, and 1/32 Maia. Now if you really want to get crazy, try to figure out the genetic makeup of any kids of Arwen and Aragorn (and don't you forget that Aragorn has some elvish lineage!!!).


That's about the nerdiest thing I've seen all day. I bow to you, sir. [slowclap.gif]
 
2013-05-07 06:25:00 PM  

blahpers: Dumb. I thought it would involve substances. Wanted to look at the atomic weight of mithril or meteoric iron.


This
 
2013-05-07 08:03:04 PM  
Arwen and Aragorn's Maia genetics are exactly 0%.  When Beren and Luthien produced offspring they were both pure human mortals, possessing no trait or genetics that would make them either resemble elves or have the longevity of elves.  They had to be purely human due to their mortality; there are just a few truly mortal races in Middle Earth, the Dwarves, the Ents and Men (hobbits are men).
 
2013-05-07 08:19:23 PM  

ulairix: Arwen and Aragorn's Maia genetics are exactly 0%.  When Beren and Luthien produced offspring they were both pure human mortals, possessing no trait or genetics that would make them either resemble elves or have the longevity of elves.  They had to be purely human due to their mortality; there are just a few truly mortal races in Middle Earth, the Dwarves, the Ents and Men (hobbits are men).


Argue semantics with Luthien all you want. He might have been "pure human mortal" upon reproducing, but that doesn't erase all traces of Maia genetic code (no more than Elros choosing to live a mortal life as a human erases his elf genetic heritage),

Melian (Arwen's great-great-great grandfather) was pure Maia. Those genes don't just disappear based on one's life choices, even if mystical in nature.
 
2013-05-07 08:19:24 PM  
Supes:This would make Arwen 25/32 elf, 3/16 human, and 1/32 Maia. Now if you really want to get crazy, try to figure out the genetic makeup of any kids of Arwen and Aragorn (and don't you forget that Aragorn has some elvish lineage!!!).

The problem with trying to figure that out is that we don't have any way of knowing what the exact amounts of distant elf/maia ancestry are for Aragorn. I mean, we know he was descended from Elros, who was Elrond's brother and thus shares his ancestry. And we know how many generations are between Elros and Aragorn (I don't remember the exact number off the top of my head, but it's more than 40). What we don't know, though, is the ancestry of the spouses of all of the direct ancestors in between. If they were all 100% human, we could calculate the exact ancestry of Aragorn, but it's highly likely (given that it was 40+ generations) that at least a few of them were also descended from Elros by various roundabout lines, given them an unknown fraction of elf and maia ancestry themselves. And that screws up everything.

That said, given that there *were* 40+ generations in between Elros and Aragorn, and that Elros was the *only* one on the entire island of Numenor with any non-human ancestry, it's probably pretty safe to say that the actual fraction of non-human ancestry for Aragorn is *extremely* small. And so you can probably conclude that Aragorn and Arwen's kids are going to be very slightly more than 25/64 elf, very slightly more than 1/64 maia, and very slightly less than 38/64 human, to within quite small margins of error.

And yeah, the chart is pretty silly. No real organization by anything other than race. Get some *themes* in there! And he's got a couple wrong, too - Sauron, Shelob, and the Balrog all belong in the same category as Elbereth/Tom/Goldberry and the Wizards, as they are all Maiar (or Valar, which is close enough).
 
2013-05-07 08:23:23 PM  

Supes: Melian (Arwen's great-great-great grandfathermother) was pure Maia. Those genes don't just disappear based on one's life choices, even if mystical in nature.


FTFM. End of a long day.

MuonNeutrino: And we know how many generations are between Elros and Aragorn (I don't remember the exact number off the top of my head, but it's more than 40).


It's something like 60 generations of descendents. But yeah, for the reasons you stated, you couldn't get the exact percentage. Your estimate is about as close as we can guess.
 
2013-05-07 09:20:54 PM  
A lot of the dates are screwed up. For example, he lists "???" as the death date for Peregrin Took (Pippin), but in fact we know it to a fair degree of precision: F.A. 66 ± 1 year.

Yet he lists a death date for Samwise Gamgee, F.A. 61. In fact, it was the following year, F.A. 62, in which Sam left the Shire, reportedly to the Grey Havens, where he could be borne across the sea to the Undying Lands.

There are other mistakes, but these two very small ones are enough to earn him my white-hot nerd rage. WE HATES IT, PRECIOUS, WE HATES IT FOREVER!
 
2013-05-07 10:16:47 PM  

semiotix: A lot of the dates are screwed up. For example, he lists "???" as the death date for Peregrin Took (Pippin), but in fact we know it to a fair degree of precision: F.A. 66 ± 1 year.

Yet he lists a death date for Samwise Gamgee, F.A. 61. In fact, it was the following year, F.A. 62, in which Sam left the Shire, reportedly to the Grey Havens, where he could be borne across the sea to the Undying Lands.

There are other mistakes, but these two very small ones are enough to earn him my white-hot nerd rage. WE HATES IT, PRECIOUS, WE HATES IT FOREVER!


That's the last date Sam was confirmed as alive.  Sam is still a mortal, so he will die in Valinor, so that date is as good as any.
 
2013-05-07 10:18:09 PM  
Look, all I want to know is what reagent to add to Eh+Gr to get a stable covalent bond.

/knows nothing about chemistry
//has a things for Elves
///slash--it's more than just a character
 
2013-05-08 12:02:07 AM  

JammerJim: Arwen and her brothers aren't half-elves.


Yes they are.
 
2013-05-08 12:02:54 AM  
img.photobucket.com
 
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