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(Entertainment Weekly)   Mark Hamill defends Jar-Jar Binks but not the second Death Star   (insidemovies.ew.com) divider line 89
    More: Silly, Mark Hamill, CapeTown Film Fest, Death Star, Star Wars, Oh my, Roger Rabbit, Greedo, Jabba the Hutt  
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5029 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 07 May 2013 at 7:17 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-07 12:42:30 PM

browntimmy: People still use this argument? It should be pretty obvious that all six of them were meant to appeal to all ages. And it should also be pretty obvious that kids aren't as good as adults at discerning what's good and what's crap.


"Take that, Mr. Hitler!"

/Apparently, also a children's movie
 
2013-05-07 12:45:45 PM

Dr Dreidel: Fireproof: devilEther: while I attribute the second Death Star to pure laziness on the part of Lucas, I like to think the Empire built a replica of the original Death Star to defy the terrorists who destroyed the original.

The Death Star was the capstone on Palpatine's plan for him/the Empire to have ultimate power once and for all. Remember that we even saw the blueprints for it in Ep III. It wouldn't make sense for the Empire to never "try again."

It always bugged me that over 30 years or so, the Empire had precisely zero new ideas.

"Let's build a moon-sized battle station!"
"OK! Ohhhhh, they blew it up."
"WHAT?!"
"Yeah, two-meter exhaust port, photon torpedo - no one saw that coming."
"Well, fark. I guess we'll build another one, then."

// blasters, armor, combat tactics - all exactly the same in Episodes II and VI


Decades of religious warfare slows development.
 
2013-05-07 12:57:34 PM

frepnog: Close2TheEdge: mat catastrophe: Greedo always shot first. You people haven't watched the 1977 film closely.

Spoken like someone who wasn't actually alive when the original came out.  And yes, the original is the one that was released to theaters.  Every version released since then is not the original.

fact is that Han DID NOT shoot first in the original version.  Han is in fact the ONLY one that shot.  Han gunned Greedo down before Greedo had a chance to shoot.  Lucas later tried to retcon this and claimed that Greedo always shot first and that you just couldn't tell, but that is a bunch of crap.  Also -

[www.overthinkingit.com image 500x300]


I'm surprised Lucas never retconned that scene in Raiders so that the swordsman shoots first.
 
2013-05-07 12:59:45 PM

SithLord: INeedAName: Ewoks are some effed up cannibalistic tribal murderers

Ewoks are just homeless Care Bears that sold their magical powers for meth.


Ewoks are one bad dye job away from being Elmo.
 
2013-05-07 01:04:56 PM

Ishkur: UNC_Samurai: Hey, Mark, how did you like Freddie Prinze, Jr's take on Christopher Blair?

I don't get it. How could a movie written and directed by the guy who wrote and programmed the video game turn out so badly?


Two words:Corporate meddling. There's a very good chance very little of the original script made it to the screen.
 
2013-05-07 01:08:06 PM

born_yesterday: George Lucas is like Steven King; once they got too big for their editors, their work suffered for it.


Peter Jackson, John Lasseter, Andrew Stanton.

PJ is just making some seriously indulgent shiat and he should pack it in.

John Lasseter had too much power when he did Cars. He did a great job with Toy Story and TS2, but he was even better as the guy  in charge. If he'd got someone else to do Cars, it might have been a much better film.

With John Carter, the studio were just like "Stanton knows what he's doing" even when the script looked like a bloody mess, and his marketing ideas were overruling experienced marketing people.
 
2013-05-07 01:14:35 PM

UNC_Samurai: buntz: Crewmannumber6: The people on that second death star were just honest tradesmen trying to support their families

That was a funny (Clerks) argument until the prequels.  Then it was clear the Death Star were built by members of, what would become, the Empire.

If the Geonosins built the first Death Star, it's fair to assume another race, if not more Geonosins, built the second.

The first Death Star was built in orbit over the prison planet Despayre, and was used as the superlaser's test target.

And as far as the contractor argument goes...Even without having to delve into the plethora of EU sources, we see throughout the trilogy droids doing all sorts of work.  We see power droids, welding droids, and there's a pretty significant reference to binary load-lifters.  With such heavy reliance on automated labor...why would anyone think that the bulk of the construction work was being done by humans?  And if Death Star II is supposed to be enough of a secret that "many Bothans died" to secure information of its existence, why would the Empire hire non-military companies to do work in the Endor system?  That's almost a guaranteed security risk.  The conversation is funny, I'll give them that, but it's an easily refuted argument.


Lucas joked in the DVD commentary of AOTC, "these were the contractors that the Clerks guys were talking about"

I've never had any major problems with the prequels, nor the special editions. Liked Jar Jar, understood the concept of midiclorians ( not the force, but cellular parts that help connect to the force. Similar to mitrocondrias.)


Oh a few minor quibbles. Han/Jabba scene repeats the same information that the Han Greedo scene had moments before. They took off the scream when Luke jumped escaping from Vader in ESB.

The Han/Greedo shoots first is funny. In the original script and in the original film, it was supposed to be totally unclear who shot first. Two shots were fired behind a cloud of smoke.
 
2013-05-07 01:15:15 PM

Close2TheEdge: mat catastrophe: Greedo always shot first. You people haven't watched the 1977 film closely.

Spoken like someone who wasn't actually alive when the original came out.  And yes, the original is the one that was released to theaters.  Every version released since then is not the original.


I was alive then, thanks. And I have a copy of the 1977 release. All you see is a flash and then dead Greedo. You cannot tell who fired what or when.

The fanboy revisionist bullshiat is exactly that.
 
2013-05-07 01:17:45 PM

Vodka Zombie: mat catastrophe: Greedo always shot first. You people haven't watched the 1977 film closely.

Burn in hell.

Look, I'm not disagreeing.  But, after Lucas turned the entire franchise into a Muppet Show spin-off, can't we at least have SOMETHING to believe?


Have you watched these movies? They were *always* about the marketing.

Hell, it is right there in the linked article where Hamill asked Lucas why he was starting with the middle trilogy...

"It's the most commercial."
 
2013-05-07 01:30:40 PM
Wonder how hard it is running around the galaxy in heels?

bite-prod.s3.amazonaws.com
 
2013-05-07 01:38:54 PM

Darth_Lukecash: Liked Jar Jar


Do your caretakers know that you're on the Internet?

Darth_Lukecash: understood the concept of midiclorians ( not the force, but cellular parts that help connect to the force. Similar to mitrocondrias.)


I fail to see how this makes anything  better. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter! The Force is magic, and any technobabble explanations for it are bad. Worse, it makes your control of the force a function of a number on a test- we're well into HIS POWER LEVEL IS OVER 9000!!! territory.

Darth_Lukecash: it was supposed to be totally unclear who shot first


But the actual edit that most people saw, it was perfectly clear. In  Raiders, the script called for Indy to have a whip/sword fight in the market. Ford was sick, and instead just pulled out a gun and shot the swordsman.  That was better than what they had planned. There is no authority on what is the "true" cut of a film, other than the audience.
 
2013-05-07 01:40:10 PM

Darth_Lukecash: The Han/Greedo shoots first is funny. In the original script and in the original film, it was supposed to be totally unclear who shot first. Two shots were fired behind a cloud of smoke.


Why would Greedo shoot Han? He is using his gun solely to threaten Han because he wants Han to give him the money Han owes Jabba. If Han doesn't happen to have all that money on him at that particular moment (and it doesn't appear that he does), how is Greedo going to get the money if he shoots and kills Han. And he doesn't know Han has a gun pointed at him under the table, so Greedo isn't shooting in order to kill or be killed. All Han says, "Yes, I'll bet you have". These words would not indicate to Greedo that Han is about to shoot him. The idea of Greedo firing his gun at all doesn't make sense.
 
2013-05-07 01:43:13 PM

Tsar_Bomba1: Wonder how hard it is running around the galaxy in heels?

[bite-prod.s3.amazonaws.com image 500x661]


Dat Mouth!

/It doesn't matter when it's [whatever the hell Greedo's race is], baby!
 
2013-05-07 01:53:01 PM

Casey Anthony: Why would Greedo shoot Han?


1. He's cutting his (or really, Jabba's) losses and getting rid of a nuisance smuggler. Han had already been boarded, had lost a bunch of cash and (as we find out later) Jabba's ultimate plan was to put Han on display in his palace anyway. He could have frozen a dead Han in carbonite as well, or had his flesh preserved and hung him anyway.
2. Greedo may just be a psycho. Does Han know that Greedo wouldn't shoot him (as he was about to do to Greedo) just because the conversation was getting boring? Mos Eisley is a wretched hive of scum and villainy, and no one seems to care that Luke's Grandpa hacked off a regular's arm a few minutes ago. Perhaps cultural mores dictate a much lower threshhold for getting to a death sentence.
3. Larger criminal politics at play. Maybe Jabba wants/needs to "send a message" to the other smugglers in his employ. Maybe he's worried about other smugglers leaving to form their own collective. Maybe there are rumblings about how Jabba's gone soft.

// don't know anything that wasn't in the films, so maybe the EU answers some/all of that
 
2013-05-07 02:02:59 PM

Dr Dreidel: Jabba's ultimate plan was to put Han on display in his palace anyway.


That was not Jabbas' original plan. That was a plan he found acceptable. Boba Fett was not happy about the carbonite test, but was willing to go along with it. He was quite explicit: "He's no good to me dead." So we know that Jabba wanted Solo alive by Empire. Presumably, he also wanted Solo alive in ANH- after all, dead smugglers don't pay debts.

Greedo laid out a deal with Solo- he would take the money owed Solo and "forget" he ever saw Solo, or he was going to bring Solo to Jabba. More likely is that Greedo would have done grievous bodily harm to Solo, not killed him.
 
2013-05-07 02:09:21 PM

Dr Dreidel: Casey Anthony: Why would Greedo shoot Han?

1. He's cutting his (or really, Jabba's) losses and getting rid of a nuisance smuggler. Han had already been boarded, had lost a bunch of cash and (as we find out later) Jabba's ultimate plan was to put Han on display in his palace anyway. He could have frozen a dead Han in carbonite as well, or had his flesh preserved and hung him anyway.
2. Greedo may just be a psycho. Does Han know that Greedo wouldn't shoot him (as he was about to do to Greedo) just because the conversation was getting boring? Mos Eisley is a wretched hive of scum and villainy, and no one seems to care that Luke's Grandpa hacked off a regular's arm a few minutes ago. Perhaps cultural mores dictate a much lower threshhold for getting to a death sentence.
3. Larger criminal politics at play. Maybe Jabba wants/needs to "send a message" to the other smugglers in his employ. Maybe he's worried about other smugglers leaving to form their own collective. Maybe there are rumblings about how Jabba's gone soft.

// don't know anything that wasn't in the films, so maybe the EU answers some/all of that


Tom and Martha Veitch wrote a story for the Tales From the Mos Eisley Cantina anthology about Greedo.  Turns out he was a young punk whose father (Greedo the Elder) had been a successful bounty hunter.  Greedo went into the same line of work - but he got the name and none of the skill.  He thought he was going to be a big shot and drag Han in to win Jabba's praise.  Jabba said, "sure, whatever", which is why he wasn't too broken up about Greedo's death in the Special Edition scene.
 
2013-05-07 02:19:05 PM
www.mightysweet.com
Anyone else craving these?

/Shut up prostitute locked in my basement
 
2013-05-07 02:20:25 PM

t3knomanser: That was not Jabbas' original plan.


But ULTIMATELY, that's how it turned out (the word has multiple meanings). Did Jabba want Solo alive because he wanted his bounty, or because he wanted to torture Solo by leaving him alive as Jabba's leg-lamp (it's a MAJOR award!)?

I'm not saying definitively. I'm offering what I think are plausible explanations for why Solo might think Greedo's got some energy with his name on it. If Greedo only meant to do him grievous bodily harm, Solo was entirely justified in firing first.

Personally, I like the idea of Solo killing Greedo just for being annoying. That's our Solo!

// Boba also used to have an Aussie accent
// and he died the lamest death of anyone, ever
 
2013-05-07 02:49:25 PM

INeedAName: Antimatter: INeedAName: UNC_Samurai: buntz: Crewmannumber6: The people on that second death star were just honest tradesmen trying to support their families


And as far as the contractor argument goes...Even without having to delve into the plethora of EU sources, we see throughout the trilogy droids doing all sorts of work.  We see power droids, welding droids, and there's a pretty significant reference to binary load-lifters.  With such heavy reliance on automated labor...why would anyone think that the bulk of the construction work was being done by humans?  And if Death Star II is supposed to be enough of a secret that "many Bothans died" to secure information of its existence, why would the Empire hire non-military companies to do work in the Endor system?  That's almost a guaranteed security risk.  The conversation is funny, I'll give them that, but it's an easily refuted argument.

The Bothans died because Ewoks ate them. Ewoks are some effed up cannibalistic tribal murderers. One of them is actually wearing a Bothan skull for a hat in one of the scenes. And they were about to eat Han and them if Luke hadn't save the day.

That's not cannibalism, unless Ewoks eat Ewoks.

You are technically correct. The best kind of correct.


Nothing technical about it. Cannibalism means "Eating your own kind". Just because everything's sentient doesn't make it cannibalism.

Ewok eats Ewok - cannibalism.
Wookie eats Wookie - cannibalism.
Hutt eats Human - not cannibalism.
Geonosian eats Transodhan - not cannibalism.
Luke and Han eat Leia at the end of "A New Hope" - something we all wish really happened.

As for the Death Star II, the Empire fixed the problems like the thermal exhaust ports, replacing them with a series of much smaller ducts that would close if abnormal energy levels were detected. Many more anti-starfighter guns were added, and the superlaser could recharge in minutes instead of hours and could target capital ships. If the Death Star II had been finished, it would have been invincible, which is why the Alliance had to destroy it - which was exactly what Palpatine was counting on. Give the rebels a target so dangerous they couldn't ignore it.
 
2013-05-07 03:26:44 PM

LL316: t3knomanser: Just because they're the movies Lucas wanted to make doesn't make them immune to criticism. To the contrary, it gives us liberty to be more uncompromising in our criticism of the films. If that boring, tedious, crap was Lucas's vision, he needs to get some Lasik or something.

Did kids (the people he made the movies for) enjoy them?  Yep.  Then wtf cares what you think?  Don't blame him because you're incapable of growing up.


Phantom Menace came out in 1999. A 10-year-old boy then now is 24 years old, old enough to be a real war veteran. I don't think I know any 24-year-olds personally, but I don't see a wave of love for those movies the way 24-year-olds my age had for the originals. Maybe I'm wrong.
 
2013-05-07 03:42:03 PM

mat catastrophe: Close2TheEdge: mat catastrophe: Greedo always shot first. You people haven't watched the 1977 film closely.

Spoken like someone who wasn't actually alive when the original came out.  And yes, the original is the one that was released to theaters.  Every version released since then is not the original.

I was alive then, thanks. And I have a copy of the 1977 release. All you see is a flash and then dead Greedo. You cannot tell who fired what or when.

The fanboy revisionist bullshiat is exactly that.


I have a copy, too. There's no indication at all that Greedo fired.  Han shot him before he had a chance to pull the trigger; i.e., Han Shot First.
 
2013-05-07 03:44:56 PM

QuesoDelicioso: Star Wars was always flawed. The awesome just tended to outweigh the flaws, but by the time RotJ came around things were getting pretty ridiculous.


THIS.

Continuity in Star Wars (and Star Trek) is terrible.  SW tries to use the EU to clarify, retcon, etc...but it kinda doesnt work. ST almost doesnt even try to fix itself. I enjoy both, but as full universes they are deeply flawed. Both were made "in the moment" so to speak, where continuity wasnt a concern. Its not really a unique thing...most stories, movies, etc were written to be simply be that story. When it catches popularity and the demand for more comes it complicates things. Now background must be developed, and small mistakes (parsecs for instance) become larger issues as they now need to be explained, retconned, etc.
 
2013-05-07 03:46:00 PM

Dr Dreidel: t3knomanser: That was not Jabbas' original plan.

But ULTIMATELY, that's how it turned out (the word has multiple meanings). Did Jabba want Solo alive because he wanted his bounty, or because he wanted to torture Solo by leaving him alive as Jabba's leg-lamp (it's a MAJOR award!)?

I'm not saying definitively. I'm offering what I think are plausible explanations for why Solo might think Greedo's got some energy with his name on it. If Greedo only meant to do him grievous bodily harm, Solo was entirely justified in firing first.

Personally, I like the idea of Solo killing Greedo just for being annoying. That's our Solo!

// Boba also used to have an Aussie accent
// and he died the lamest death of anyone, ever


Tasha Yar would beg to differ.
 
2013-05-07 03:57:33 PM

meanmutton: mat catastrophe: Close2TheEdge: mat catastrophe: Greedo always shot first. You people haven't watched the 1977 film closely.

Spoken like someone who wasn't actually alive when the original came out.  And yes, the original is the one that was released to theaters.  Every version released since then is not the original.

I was alive then, thanks. And I have a copy of the 1977 release. All you see is a flash and then dead Greedo. You cannot tell who fired what or when.

The fanboy revisionist bullshiat is exactly that.

I have a copy, too. There's no indication at all that Greedo fired.  Han shot him before he had a chance to pull the trigger; i.e., Han Shot First.


There's no telling who fired. There's a flash and then a dead Greedo. There is no blaster effect in that film.
 
2013-05-07 03:59:55 PM
Geonosian eats Transodhan - not cannibalism.  the hottest fetish DVD on the con circuit this summer.
 
2013-05-07 04:06:50 PM

mat catastrophe: meanmutton: mat catastrophe: Close2TheEdge: mat catastrophe: Greedo always shot first. You people haven't watched the 1977 film closely.

Spoken like someone who wasn't actually alive when the original came out.  And yes, the original is the one that was released to theaters.  Every version released since then is not the original.

I was alive then, thanks. And I have a copy of the 1977 release. All you see is a flash and then dead Greedo. You cannot tell who fired what or when.

The fanboy revisionist bullshiat is exactly that.

I have a copy, too. There's no indication at all that Greedo fired.  Han shot him before he had a chance to pull the trigger; i.e., Han Shot First.

There's no telling who fired. There's a flash and then a dead Greedo. There is no blaster effect in that film.


Han draws his blaster, leans forward, says a catchy one-liner, and flinches a little, we see the poof, and the Greedo is dead.  Then, Han casually saunters to the bar tender and pays for the mess.  What possible outcome could cause that other than Han shooting Greedo?
 
2013-05-07 04:12:27 PM

devilEther: while I attribute the second Death Star to pure laziness on the part of Lucas, I like to think the Empire built a replica of the original Death Star to defy the terrorists who destroyed the original.


They were going to name it the "Freedom Star"
 
2013-05-07 04:14:32 PM
meanmutton: we see the poof, and Greedo is dead.  What possible outcome could cause that other than Han shooting Greedo?

Greedo is wearing a suicide-bomber vest. His intent is to blow the whole bar to pieces, but the explosives are far weaker than he realizes and he succeeds in only killing himself.
 
2013-05-07 04:22:26 PM

Rhames: [www.mightysweet.com image 640x480]
Anyone else craving these?

/Shut up prostitute locked in my basement


Han shot first.  You didn't see it.... but your brain did.
 
2013-05-07 04:23:04 PM

meanmutton: Tasha Yar would beg to differ.


Who? And what?
 
2013-05-07 04:53:19 PM

Iceman208481: Weeners fails.


Sad. Have you tried this?
sildenafil-aus-rx.com
 
2013-05-07 05:15:49 PM

Copperbelly watersnake: Palpatine had a galaxy spanning dictatorship with pretty much unlimited resources. Why wouldn't he rebuild the Death Star? People also seem to be forgetting that the thing was supposed to be a trap for the Rebellion. It was a target they couldn't ignore.


This.  Resources weren't a problem for the empire.

Just like the ramp the Romans built to Masada.  The options for the Jews became quite limited once the ramp was built.
 
2013-05-07 06:25:07 PM
Yes, there is much CGI, but then, the original movies made heavy use of mattes and plate backgrounds. They didn't build a full sized Death Star set. Most of what you see is a painting, so it's not much different than green screen.

As for Jar Jar, my friend has a brilliant theory. Jar Jar was meant to be Darth Vader's first kill. Think about how symbolic that would by as Anakin "kills" his childhood by killing his childhood buddy. But since there was such a negative reaction to Jar Jar, Lucas changed the plan to keep him around as a sort of neener neener to the haters. That's his theory.

A second Death Star? I would have expect for there to be at least two. It didn't seem to travel very fast, so you'd want more than one to be able to have a presence in the galaxy. I always thought the second was build the same time as the first, but because it was so much bigger, it was incomplete.
 
2013-05-07 06:32:33 PM

Rhames: [www.mightysweet.com image 640x480]
Anyone else craving these?

/Shut up prostitute locked in my basement


what's wrong with your face?!
 
2013-05-07 07:37:01 PM

devilEther: meanmutton: we see the poof, and Greedo is dead.  What possible outcome could cause that other than Han shooting Greedo?

Greedo is wearing a suicide-bomber vest. His intent is to blow the whole bar to pieces, but the explosives are far weaker than he realizes and he succeeds in only killing himself.


Why would Han then be so casual about the death and pay for clean-up?
 
2013-05-07 09:28:09 PM

meanmutton: devilEther: meanmutton: we see the poof, and Greedo is dead.  What possible outcome could cause that other than Han shooting Greedo?

Greedo is wearing a suicide-bomber vest. His intent is to blow the whole bar to pieces, but the explosives are far weaker than he realizes and he succeeds in only killing himself.

Why would Han then be so casual about the death and pay for clean-up?



He pays for his drinks.  And he is sorry about the mess.  Not apologetic.  Just sorry.
 
2013-05-07 09:39:45 PM
It was after the first film that Lucas realized he could turn this into a multilevel marketing toy empire, so he did. And that's why every film after the first has been a farking toy commercial the farking fanbois have paid him money to see ever since. That's why he is so farking rich.

In the first film, the story mattered. All the rest, "which character/prop can we feature to make the most money on licensing/toy sales with this commercial that the suckers will pay money to see".

Fark Lucas and the MLM train he ran on all the idjits.
 
2013-05-07 10:49:27 PM

frepnog: Close2TheEdge: mat catastrophe: Greedo always shot first. You people haven't watched the 1977 film closely.

Spoken like someone who wasn't actually alive when the original came out.  And yes, the original is the one that was released to theaters.  Every version released since then is not the original.

fact is that Han DID NOT shoot first in the original version.  Han is in fact the ONLY one that shot.  Han gunned Greedo down before Greedo had a chance to shoot.  Lucas later tried to retcon this and claimed that Greedo always shot first and that you just couldn't tell, but that is a bunch of crap.  Also -

[www.overthinkingit.com image 500x300]


That would be an awkward day at work. "Hey boss, oh you're wearing a picture of me, ooookay"... walks away, "wtf?"
 
2013-05-08 12:19:44 AM

Gawain: But isn't that usually the criticism anytime the bad guy's plan comes within a hair of working, except the heroes get lucky with a one-in-a-million last-ditch shot? Why don't they just do it again and maybe add a safeguard against the same thing happening again (in this particular case, shield or better defend the exhaust port)? It was a good plan, they just got really, really unlucky. So why not do it again, since it will almost certainly succeed the second time?


that point reminds me of watching an episode of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles where Shredder's plan failed because that was the only day that all the planets aligned (i could be off on this, i was 10 or so).  after it ended, i wondered why he didn't try the same thing tomorrow.

long story short, you would be a good super-villain!
 
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