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(The Big Story) NewsFlash US Senate passes Internet Sales Tax Bill. Why? Because fark you, that's why   (bigstory.ap.org) divider line 117
    More: NewsFlash, Senate, internet, senate passes, sales taxes, D-Ill, United States  
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16644 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 May 2013 at 10:06 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2013-05-06 08:59:46 PM  
18 votes:
This is another example of why we are farked.
Politicians do not do what constituents want.
They do what big money wants, or they do something that will allow them to take in more of our cash so they can spend it on shiat constituents don't want.
2013-05-06 09:44:51 PM  
13 votes:
Raise your hand if you answered $0 when your state tax return asked the dollar amount of out of state or online purchases that you owed taxes on.

*raises hand*

Now, how many of you were willing to pay those taxes, but just had no f*cking clue how to go about figuring out exactly what you need to pay, therefore you broke the law and evaded the taxes because you know you'll never get caught?

*raises hand*

This is why I'm OK with business collecting them. Because if you leave it up to me, sh*t isn't going to get done. I'm lazy and unorganized. But I am willing to pay it if it doesn't involve another step in filing my tax returns, and possibly getting audited.
2013-05-06 09:11:20 PM  
12 votes:
You already have to pay tax on the items you buy from out of state vendors that do not collect sales tax if those items would be taxable in your state. Use tax, not sales tax is what it is called. I file my return and pay the tax quarterly as required by my state of residence, Florida.

If you live in Deleware, Montana or Oregon you have no state sales or use tax. All others should be paying their use tax as the law requires unless the vendor collects it.

This will not raise your tax burden one cent. It will however create an accounting nightmare for the sellers and many smaller sellers will simply close. Those that remain open will have higher tax compliance costs and will pass those costs along to the consumer.

If you people had paid your taxes all along like you're supposed to you wouldn't be facing this problem. Quill v. North Dakota was not litigated to save you from paying the tax you rightfully owe, it was litigated so Quill and retailers similarly situated wouldn't be required to comply with tax laws in jurisdictions in which they have no nexus.

TLDR version - you already owe these taxes, you don't pay them. Now they want businesses to collect them because you won't pay voluntarily and prices will go up. Pay your taxes deadbeats.
2013-05-06 09:11:56 PM  
11 votes:
I don't have a problem with this.  It'll cut down on really blatant tax evasion, that's it.  And smaller companies won't have to "deal with 9,000 tax codes" or anything like that.  Some vendor will see a business opportunity to run all that stuff for a small surcharge and all the small businesses will just contract through them.
2013-05-06 10:14:22 PM  
6 votes:
So, if I buy something online. The vendor/store isn't in my state. The company that I have my credit card with doesn't reside in my state. The company that processes the credit card to pay the vendor doesn't reside in my state. Question: what entitles my state to even one penny of that transaction? If I cross a state border and buy a sandwich, I don't pay my home state sales tax on it. This isn't the same thing how?
2013-05-06 09:27:52 PM  
6 votes:

Thoguh: I don't have a problem with this.  It'll cut down on really blatant tax evasion, that's it.  And smaller companies won't have to "deal with 9,000 tax codes" or anything like that.  Some vendor will see a business opportunity to run all that stuff for a small surcharge and all the small businesses will just contract through them.


Smaller companies won't have to deal with it at all. It excuses all companies with less than one million in online sales.
2013-05-06 10:13:21 PM  
5 votes:

basemetal: I thought you guys liked taxes....


I like society and civilization and all the wonderful trappings that come along with it.

Like roads and bridges and, yes, parks.
2013-05-06 10:31:01 PM  
4 votes:
This is where the people who think everyone needs to pay their fair share figure out they'd rather not pay their fair share.
2013-05-06 10:23:02 PM  
4 votes:
Brought to you by your small business, brick and mortar minded, friends at ....

Wal-Mart.

This whole thing was because Wally world decided Amazon was getting to much of their pie.

farking Assholes.
2013-05-06 10:21:30 PM  
4 votes:
Not sure what the big deal is with this. You buy stuff, you pay sales tax. That's life
2013-05-06 10:18:22 PM  
4 votes:

AirForceVet: This will probably increase sales at the military exchange website as it's always sales tax free.


I foresee a boom in e-commerce shops hosted in Native American reservations.

They'll get back the land that was stolen one dollar at a time, just like with casinos and cigarettes. I don't have any serious qualms about that.
2013-05-06 10:18:11 PM  
4 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: How did JC Penney and Sears do it before in the age of catalog ordering?


farm7.staticflickr.com

See about 3/4 of the way down?
2013-05-06 10:07:53 PM  
4 votes:

homeschooled: Raise your hand if you answered $0 when your state tax return asked the dollar amount of out of state or online purchases that you owed taxes on.


PA and DE state governments advertise to Marylanders about traveling north for tax-free shopping. If it's evasion, it's government sanctioned.
2013-05-06 09:40:07 PM  
4 votes:

Thoguh: It'll cut down on really blatant tax evasion, that's it.


The only people I can think of who are currently "evading" taxes are eBay sellers who sell to in-state buyers and don't add on tax. For eBay, this is a big hassle, but for Amazon, it frees them to set up an even better distribution system.
2013-05-06 09:12:50 PM  
4 votes:
Good.
2013-05-06 10:36:01 PM  
3 votes:
FROM EACH
according to his ability

TO EACH
according to his need


 /You're not selfish, are you?
2013-05-06 10:26:39 PM  
3 votes:
FTFA: "Supporters say the current tax disparity is turning some traditional stores into showrooms, where shoppers pick out items they like, then buy them on the Internet to avoid sales taxes."

Wrong again.  Walk into Best Buy and see a 60" Sharp TV for $1899, hop online and it can be found for $1329 with free 2 day shipping.  Sales Tax has nothing to do with it.
2013-05-06 10:22:48 PM  
3 votes:
FTA: "Supporters say the current tax disparity is turning some traditional stores into showrooms, where shoppers pick out items they like, then buy them on the Internet to avoid sales taxes."

NOT FAIR!!!!

3.bp.blogspot.com

Times change.

What, you expected people to buy buggy whips forever?
2013-05-06 10:22:42 PM  
3 votes:
There's nothing wrong with a sales tax on discretionary purchases. It's one of the few ways to impose a flat tax without screwing lower-income households. BUT...this sounds like a logistical nightmare for small business who want to sell online.The fair solution would be to impose a federal sales tax on online purchases, and distribute the revenue among the states according to each state's total online purchases.
2013-05-06 10:22:38 PM  
3 votes:

Rindred: So, if I buy something online. The vendor/store isn't in my state. The company that I have my credit card with doesn't reside in my state. The company that processes the credit card to pay the vendor doesn't reside in my state. Question: what entitles my state to even one penny of that transaction? If I cross a state border and buy a sandwich, I don't pay my home state sales tax on it. This isn't the same thing how?



If you had something shipped to you, you made a transaction in the state you live in.  The value was recieved wherever it was shipped.  Why is it different than buying it in a local store who has to charge sales tax?  If you crossed state lines, you would have made a transaction in another state where you received the goods.  We tax where the transaction value was received.  Why is that hard?

If you want to argue the concept of a sales tax, fine, you have a point.  But to argue that the method of purchase determines whether its taxable by anyone is absurd.
2013-05-06 10:21:24 PM  
3 votes:

Vodka Zombie: basemetal: I thought you guys liked taxes....

I like society and civilization and all the wonderful trappings that come along with it.

Like roads and bridges and, yes, parks.


I'm with  Vodka Zombie on the roads and bridges, but I also like the thought of all the Fark Independents™, tax protestors, and self-made millionaires (what with their bootstraps and nobody never giving them nothin') having to pay taxes like good little citizens.

And when I say enjoy, I mean "aroused by." Yeah, that's right, let me hear you scream, you middle-class biatches. Get ready to take all eleven marginal percent right up your tight little tax hole.
2013-05-06 10:18:35 PM  
3 votes:
BestBuy.com and Target.com are giddy about this, but I'm still not going to shop at either sites. I buy things on Amazon, not because they don't charge sales tax, but because Amazon is a million times easier to navigate, the shipping is a million times better, and the review system is actually decent. I'd stab my own dick with a snail fork before buying anything from either of those two sites.
2013-05-06 10:18:26 PM  
3 votes:

Vodka Zombie: basemetal: I thought you guys liked taxes....

I like society and civilization and all the wonderful trappings that come along with it.

Like roads and bridges and, yes, parks.


And you like paying for them in the most regressive way possible?
2013-05-06 10:18:25 PM  
3 votes:
Raising prices on goods isn't a good way to stimulate the economy...this is another example of how politicians do the exact the opposite to stimulate growth.
2013-05-06 10:08:42 PM  
3 votes:
How did JC Penney and Sears do it before in the age of catalog ordering?
2013-05-06 09:46:31 PM  
3 votes:
Also, I uhhhh.... I live in Texas. Yeah, Texas.

My name is Judy and I was just giving an example and definitely didn't just admit to tax evasion.
2013-05-07 02:02:52 AM  
2 votes:

shifty lookin bleeder: Teufelaffe: Here's the thing I have never understood about sales tax:  It's a tax on the merchant, not the consumer,

Nope. It's a tax on the purchaser. The merchant is just collecting it.



No. It's a tax on the merchant. Here's why: (we're ignoring shipping charges in this grossly simplified example)

A consumer has one dollar of discretionary money to spend...

Without the tax: The consumer goes online and finds that a merchant has the perfect item for one dollar. The consumer buys that item. The merchant gets the whole dollar.

With the tax: The same consumer still has just the one dollar to spend. The merchant still has the same item online, still priced at a dollar. The tax on that item will push the price to, say, $1.05. The consumer doesn't have $1.05 to spend. He has a dollar.

OPTION 1: The consumer doesn't buy the item. The merchant does not get this consumer's dollar in that case.

OPTION 2: The merchant can bring his price down to $0.95 so that, with tax, it comes out to a dollar (or just charge a dollar and back out the tax from that). The consumer pays his dollar to the merchant.

With or without the tax, the consumer has spent only the one dollar he had.

The merchant got the dollar from the consumer, but now he is required to hand over 5 cents of it to the government.
The merchant got $0.95.

Before you get all "Bullsh*it! The consumer would just suck it up and spend $1.05!" just stop and think about this in the aggregate: Consumers are only going to have so much to spend online. If the government decides to add a tax to online purchases, the consumers aren't magically going to have additional money to pay the taxes. They're simply going to spend less to offset those taxes. The amount of money the consumers pay out won't change, but the actual sales coming from that amount will be less because of the tax. The consumer still spent what he could, but part of it got pulled out because of the new tax. That financially impacts the merchant -- not the consumer.

It's exactly the same concept as people cutting back on other spending in order to keep putting gas in the car when the price of gas goes up. When that occurs, it's the other merchants who are taking the hit. Not the consumers.
2013-05-06 11:27:25 PM  
2 votes:
Sounds like a good idea...taxes.  Let's see if we can drive commerce completely overseas...we've already done so with manufacturing.  I can't figure out who would've lobbied for this, but I am sure the senators are getting paid well.
2013-05-06 11:17:19 PM  
2 votes:
It's good that a business won't get taxed below one million dollars in sales, but will they take into account the overhead? Equipment, employees, materials... Not everyone is selling cheap crap. And this isn't the 60's.

thinkingscifi.files.wordpress.com
2013-05-06 11:11:47 PM  
2 votes:
Good.

Now if they would only create an online news tax to help print journalism and we can save even more traditional businesses from online competition.
2013-05-06 11:03:34 PM  
2 votes:
i86.photobucket.com


Since I live in BFE Michigan I shop on-line mostly because I can't get something locally and not because I'm looking for a tax free shopping experience. And when I do try to find a deal on-line on something I could get locally it would have to be a hell a lot more then 6% cheaper anyway when you factor in shipping cost and wait times.
2013-05-06 11:00:26 PM  
2 votes:
Not to be an a$$ (okay, so I am going to be one):

Idiots complaining this will be a "compliance nightmare" for small business, you've been suckered. Years ago, at least 10, there were companies selling fully indexed tax databases in combinations of states, counties, and so on. You could buy a nationwide list on cd, or online, and even subscriptions for a discount.

You think this is going to cause a problem? Excuse me while I laugh at your ignorance.
2013-05-06 10:51:35 PM  
2 votes:
Once again an old and outdated industry is crying to the federal government to step in and stop other people from competing with them.
2013-05-06 10:41:29 PM  
2 votes:
I'm already taxed by Amazon so it doesn't change anything for me. I'll continue to use them for free delivery to my door, saving me gas and time.
2013-05-06 10:34:31 PM  
2 votes:
"States lost a total of $23 billion last year because they couldn't collect taxes on out-of-state sales, according to a study done for the National Conference of State Legislatures."

Yes some study. Multiplying Internet sales by ten percent. The study probably cost 8 million dollars.
JVD
2013-05-06 10:29:36 PM  
2 votes:
Fark you government. Fark you.
2013-05-06 10:29:35 PM  
2 votes:
I'd rather have this than my income taxes going up. At least everyone pays this.
2013-05-06 10:27:56 PM  
2 votes:
So, I guess Amazon's web services will soon include a tax calculator. The trick will be dealing with the special rules for categories like clothing.
2013-05-06 10:26:16 PM  
2 votes:

Rindred: So, if I buy something online. The vendor/store isn't in my state. The company that I have my credit card with doesn't reside in my state. The company that processes the credit card to pay the vendor doesn't reside in my state. Question: what entitles my state to even one penny of that transaction? If I cross a state border and buy a sandwich, I don't pay my home state sales tax on it. This isn't the same thing how?


It's entitled to the tax because you live there, use its roads, its schools, its police force, its fire departments, its state parks, and countless other services.  At some point, the elected representatives all got together and figured out that a small percentage tacked onto a business transaction would be the best way to fund the many services the residents demanded.  Now that the nature of business transactions have changed because of technology, those tax laws need to be adjusted to continue to pay for services that the public still wants.
2013-05-06 10:24:23 PM  
2 votes:

A Shambling Mound: I always get a kick out of the people who think shipping is a cost. If you're selling goods online and you're not making money on shipping you're doing it wrong.


A lot of stuff from secondary sellers on Amazon is $0.01. If this actually passed, even more stuff would be priced that way, with $7.99 shipping.
2013-05-06 10:23:45 PM  
2 votes:
Hmmm. Which party controls the senate?
...
The party of "Me First" plutocrats, consisting of both nominal democrats and nominal republicans!
2013-05-06 10:23:12 PM  
2 votes:
How about this: the house and senate can only pass 4 laws per year and must eliminate 2?
2013-05-06 10:22:13 PM  
2 votes:
I really cannot fathom why the Amazon bigshots want this bill so bad. If it happens, their sales are gonna plummet.
2013-05-06 10:21:04 PM  
2 votes:
Amazon and every other sizeable business would relocate to Delaware or some other state without a sales tax. That's asking for a national sales tax. A bad bad bad bad idea, if  you ask me.

Fortunately, this will die in the House. Which sort of makes me think maybe its a good idea, except I think in this case the republitards are right in not trying to enforce an unenforceable (or at least idiotic) law.
2013-05-06 10:20:13 PM  
2 votes:

dopekitty74: So canadians are still free to buy online from US companies without having to pay taxes then?


Yes, but you'll still end up paying taxes to Canada Customs. And of course, the extra bonus of them wasting an extra day or so, and charging you an additional $10 fee for the privilege.
2013-05-06 10:16:33 PM  
2 votes:
This is good news for web developers in foreign countries who will be hired for a fraction of the cost of U.S. web developers to update various merchants' stores to be compliant with the new tax regulations if this becomes law!
2013-05-06 10:15:35 PM  
2 votes:

feckingmorons: You already have to pay tax on the items you buy from out of state vendors that do not collect sales tax if those items would be taxable in your state. Use tax, not sales tax is what it is called. I file my return and pay the tax quarterly as required by my state of residence, Florida.

If you live in Deleware, Montana or Oregon you have no state sales or use tax. All others should be paying their use tax as the law requires unless the vendor collects it.

This will not raise your tax burden one cent. It will however create an accounting nightmare for the sellers and many smaller sellers will simply close. Those that remain open will have higher tax compliance costs and will pass those costs along to the consumer.

If you people had paid your taxes all along like you're supposed to you wouldn't be facing this problem. Quill v. North Dakota was not litigated to save you from paying the tax you rightfully owe, it was litigated so Quill and retailers similarly situated wouldn't be required to comply with tax laws in jurisdictions in which they have no nexus.

TLDR version - you already owe these taxes, you don't pay them. Now they want businesses to collect them because you won't pay voluntarily and prices will go up. Pay your taxes deadbeats.


Damn right.  Personally I buy all my stuff from Best Buy, anyway, because it has far less stuff than amazon does at twice the price, and I get to take it home right then.  Amazon should have to pay tax on top of the shipping costs because it isn't fair.
2013-05-06 10:14:51 PM  
2 votes:
We need to pass a bill that requires brick and mortar retailers to hold onto a product for two days (i.e. shipping time) before a customer can pick up their item in order to create equality between retailers & etailers.

/equality my ass
2013-05-06 10:13:53 PM  
2 votes:
This should get more responses than a gun control thread.

/goes for popcorn.
2013-05-06 10:11:37 PM  
2 votes:
Democrats passed it.  Because paying more for everything is a great idea.
2013-05-06 09:51:56 PM  
2 votes:

feckingmorons: You already have to pay tax on the items you buy from out of state vendors that do not collect sales tax if those items would be taxable in your state. Use tax, not sales tax is what it is called. I file my return and pay the tax quarterly as required by my state of residence, Florida.

If you live in Deleware, Montana or Oregon you have no state sales or use tax. All others should be paying their use tax as the law requires unless the vendor collects it.

This will not raise your tax burden one cent. It will however create an accounting nightmare for the sellers and many smaller sellers will simply close. Those that remain open will have higher tax compliance costs and will pass those costs along to the consumer.

If you people had paid your taxes all along like you're supposed to you wouldn't be facing this problem. Quill v. North Dakota was not litigated to save you from paying the tax you rightfully owe, it was litigated so Quill and retailers similarly situated wouldn't be required to comply with tax laws in jurisdictions in which they have no nexus.

TLDR version - you already owe these taxes, you don't pay them. Now they want businesses to collect them because you won't pay voluntarily and prices will go up. Pay your taxes deadbeats.


Bullcrap.  Software and apps exist now to do the calculations and filing for you.  Way esier for the seller to do this than for individual purchasers.

All this does is help to ever so slightly level the playing field between brick and mortar retailers and online only stores.  those cheap prices come at the expense of retail jobs, property taxes and commerical rents.

And the warehouse jobs are notoriously bad even when compared to other warehouse jobs.
2013-05-06 09:51:28 PM  
2 votes:

basemetal: I thought you guys liked taxes....


That was when the $250k and up were paying them.  This here tax affects everybody who buys stuff on the internet.
2013-05-06 09:49:28 PM  
2 votes:
I thought you guys liked taxes....
2013-05-06 09:49:05 PM  
2 votes:

feckingmorons: You already have to pay tax on the items you buy from out of state vendors that do not collect sales tax if those items would be taxable in your state. Use tax, not sales tax is what it is called. I file my return and pay the tax quarterly as required by my state of residence, Florida.

If you live in Deleware, Montana or Oregon you have no state sales or use tax. All others should be paying their use tax as the law requires unless the vendor collects it.

This will not raise your tax burden one cent. It will however create an accounting nightmare for the sellers and many smaller sellers will simply close. Those that remain open will have higher tax compliance costs and will pass those costs along to the consumer.

If you people had paid your taxes all along like you're supposed to you wouldn't be facing this problem. Quill v. North Dakota was not litigated to save you from paying the tax you rightfully owe, it was litigated so Quill and retailers similarly situated wouldn't be required to comply with tax laws in jurisdictions in which they have no nexus.

TLDR version - you already owe these taxes, you don't pay them. Now they want businesses to collect them because you won't pay voluntarily and prices will go up. Pay your taxes deadbeats.


Catalog sales have traditionally been excluded from the state and local sales taxes. (with the exception that the sale company has a physical store in your state). (and I should say most states as some paper catalogs add taxes to certain states).

It seems this law is redefining what a 'physical store' is..meaning a internet store that takes over the internet is subject.

My question would be does the company that collects such state taxes on internet sells actually give those to the state and what gaggle of oversight to look at those sales would be in place. If I order a item and pay 20 cents in state tax---is that state tax actually going to the state each year? Would this also conflict with interstate commerce----would your hammocks you purchased in Mexico be subject to federal tax? After you reach the duty free limit? Or do you ignore that and just go on through customs?


It would be intresting to see if called up the store on the phone instead of using 'internet' which law would apply?
2013-05-06 09:35:43 PM  
2 votes:

feckingmorons: You already have to pay tax on the items you buy from out of state vendors that do not collect sales tax if those items would be taxable in your state. Use tax, not sales tax is what it is called. I file my return and pay the tax quarterly as required by my state of residence, Florida.

If you live in Deleware, Montana or Oregon you have no state sales or use tax. All others should be paying their use tax as the law requires unless the vendor collects it.

This will not raise your tax burden one cent. It will however create an accounting nightmare for the sellers and many smaller sellers will simply close. Those that remain open will have higher tax compliance costs and will pass those costs along to the consumer.

If you people had paid your taxes all along like you're supposed to you wouldn't be facing this problem. Quill v. North Dakota was not litigated to save you from paying the tax you rightfully owe, it was litigated so Quill and retailers similarly situated wouldn't be required to comply with tax laws in jurisdictions in which they have no nexus.

TLDR version - you already owe these taxes, you don't pay them. Now they want businesses to collect them because you won't pay voluntarily and prices will go up. Pay your taxes deadbeats.


Realistically, you realize, almost no one actually pays the the use tax.  The chances of getting caught for not doing it are infinitesimally small, and for more expensive items, it's one of the biggest draws to purchasing online.  This will, in effect, be an additional tax for most online purchases for most people.
2013-05-06 09:25:46 PM  
2 votes:
This will probably increase sales at the military exchange website as it's always sales tax free.
2013-05-06 08:57:11 PM  
2 votes:
de money
2013-05-07 04:16:15 PM  
1 votes:
Can't wait to see the great State of Alabama try to prosecute an online merchant based in New Hampshire for failing to collect sales tax for the great State of Alabama.  Hilarious hijinks will indeed ensue!
2013-05-07 12:34:33 PM  
1 votes:

dbrunker: The Online Sales Tax:

1. violates state sovereignty by forcing one state to enforce the laws of other states The law already exists and as a consumer of goods over the internet, you should have been keeping track of, and paying this tax already; this just shifts the burden from the consumer to the merchant
2. is discriminatory. Internet businesses are required to get information on where products will be used - brick & mortar stores aren't Where the product(s) will be used are irrelevant and have no bearing on this law.  Only where they are purchased from matters, and you bet your ass brick & mortar stores have to keep track of that (for businesses with brick & mortar stores in multiple cities or states)
3.  is coercive and burdensome. Internet businesses would be forced to collect taxes for over 9000 tax jurisdictions Using software that will be provided free of charge
4. undermines successful small businesses - requiring them to spend time and money playing tax-collector instead of growing Again, they get free software for this.  It's just additional administrative that can be mostly automated, ffs
5. threatens Internet freedom by forcing e-businesses to enforce laws from jurisdictions where they aren't located Now you're just being (more) stupid

2013-05-07 11:11:50 AM  
1 votes:
This would be a tax nightmare. All the states are slightly different in taxation, have different tax rates, not to mention localities have differences too. This ridiculous on the face of it.
2013-05-07 10:09:01 AM  
1 votes:

Sam Malone: I'm totally rooting for... HOUSE REPUBLICANS?!? *etthhiicckkkkaaaaadhhfffhdggghhhhhhh* Sorry, almost swallowed my tongue there for a second.


Help us Obi Wan JohnBoehnor, you're our only hope. The very thought makes me want to puke

tkwasny: I thought it was a constitutional requirement that all bills that have anything to do with taxes and expenditures are required to initiate in the House?


It doesn't generate revenue nor is it a new tax. This is the senate putting the job of enforcing an existing law (use tax) on the retailer rather than on the people via self-reporting. Despite all the high and mightiness in this thread self reporting what you owe to the gov't will always be massively abused.

Oldiron_79: Wait there are people that seriously thought the govt would vote against giving itself moar money? Let me laugh even harder.


This.. so very this.

MythDragon: That's like  me saying I lost $200 million every time I don't win the lottery.



My company pulled that line and did it with a straight face (so to speak). They told us our 20,000,000.00 profit this quarter was really a loss because the shareholders/management wanted to make 30mil. So there will be no bonuses.
2013-05-07 08:36:22 AM  
1 votes:

ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: There is the issue of sales taxes being regressive, but that's separate from collection.


Yep, income taxes aren't pulling their weight.  Problem is that rich people are mobile and States are whores.

taxfoundation.org
2013-05-07 02:23:53 AM  
1 votes:

ModernLuddite: Jesus fark, people. If a sales tax is going to kill you, just buy less shiat.



1.bp.blogspot.com
Thanks for the advice
2013-05-07 01:08:54 AM  
1 votes:

RembrandtQEinstein: Sales taxes and income taxes are a terrible way to fund the government.

The reason you know that democrats dont care about the "working poor" is that not a single one of them will oppose sales and payroll taxes, the two most regressive forms of taxation since roman poll taxes.

3 steps to fixing the country

1. repeal all current sales and income taxes
2. impose a tax on all currency leaving the country (napkin math says ~10-15%)
3. impose an annual tax on all assets of value, including IP (napkin math again says ~3.4% to match current state and federal revenues).

This moves the tax burden from labor to capital. Working poor people have their rent raised by 4% and in exchange get 11+% back from the payroll tax.

Conservatives hate it since the only people paying taxes are property owners.
Liberals hate it because it pegs the size of government with the size of the economy.

And all politicians would hate it because they can no longer use the tax code to favor their puppetmasters.


an annual tax on "items of value" is still a farking sales tax, but instead of paying it once, you pay it every year you have it. unless the rule book of what defines an asset is rewritten as well.


2013-05-07 01:00:11 AM  
1 votes:
hey you guys are all ignorant and retarded. FROM A TOTAL FARK TROLL THATS A COMPLIMENT

GOT AN IDEA? TAX THE RICH.
can't tax them?

BEAT THEM TO DEATH WITH LACROSSE EQUIPMENT
2013-05-07 12:34:02 AM  
1 votes:
Hopefully amazon.com starts putting more of those lockers and similar delivery receptacles in states like Montana, Oregon, New Hampshire, etc.

I'll plan my big purchases and have them waiting for me.  I'll visit Oregon once to twice a year to pick up expensive things.  Even if it doesn't quite work out money wise, the spite/fark you factor to my state will make it worth it to me.
2013-05-07 12:28:34 AM  
1 votes:
What services has my state provided to justify these taxes?

They didn't service any stores, build anything around them, didn't license, inspect, etc. any retail outlets.

The delivery vehicles used paid fuel and other road taxes, warehouse operators paid property taxes, etc.

Brick and mortar stores receive services that warehouses do not, and they pay sales taxes accordingly.
2013-05-07 12:03:04 AM  
1 votes:
I'm honestly fine with paying a sales tax for online purchases, but only on the condition that the tax gets paid to the state where the seller resides. I consider buying a textbook from a seller in California via Amazon the same driving to California and buying the book in person, only I'm using a piece of data instead of physically going there myself.

It would have delightful economic consequences, since more states would start to cut sales taxes in an attempt to pull those businesses in for jobs. With a lower sales tax, the other option is a higher income tax or property/vice/estate taxes which are all fine by me. Any state that refuses to play ball gets shut out of a new revenue source - looking at you South.
2013-05-06 11:39:51 PM  
1 votes:
I don't see this helping brick-and-mortar retail at all.  There are several reasons why online shopping is easier:  you don't have to go to a store, you don't have to deal with some asshole's idea of management or the ill-paid people who work there, the time you save by not standing in line listen to a sad spiel about warranties and the like, and you can always get exactly what you want.  Sure, you have a wait, but that often beats BAMs by a damn sight.

All this is going to do is make BAMs feel better for a month while they realize people are still shopping online.   The lack of sales tax is nice, but that's not the only reason people shop online.  BAMs have serious management problems that start with how they view the consumer and their workforce (read: with contempt) and it shows.  Online retailers probably aren't much better, but it's easier for me to cut through the shiat and just get what I want.
2013-05-06 11:39:05 PM  
1 votes:

AdolfOliverPanties: This is another example of why we are farked.
Politicians do not do what constituents want.
They do what big money wants, or they do something that will allow them to take in more of our cash so they can spend it on shiat constituents don't want.


Nah, here's the thing.  People don't pay their use taxes.  If you buy something without being charged sales tax, it's up to you to do it.  If you're like me, you just look at the bill, smile, and move on with your life.

But here's the thing: your hometown still has bills to pay.  As much as I'd like to stand up behind my buddies who want a FairTax system, but AFAIK if Jeff Bezos wanted to send a big "fark you" to Tennessee, all he'd have to do without a law like this is close down any and all TN warehouses.  Now, back to your hometown: they have this shortfall.  This very measurable shortfall.  So they've been trying to cover part of the tax burden with a consumption tax, which means they get to tax the people who don't live in their town but use their roads and services.  Now, they could raise taxes on residents, but they're likely to raise hell.  What do?

And being a rural Southern Illinoisan, Chicagoans moving down here both crack me up and fill me with rage, because imho they represent what's wrong with America.  People claim they want the low taxes, but they still have that sense of entitlement!  These folks fill their coffers up there, retire, come down here and sing the praises of our low cost of living, and move to a part of the area that has low low low property taxes...and then they're shocked, SHOCKED I TELL YOU, that they don't have the same exact quality of life they had up there.  The grocery store doesn't have the same selection!  Everybody looks poor!  The road in front of my house looks like a minefield!  Why is there corn blocking the view of oncoming traffic?  Why the hell are there so many tractors on the road?  Can't someone do something about all the potholes and tractors on the road???  Why is the road crew just two rednecks with a dumptruck???!?  What do you mean my $200/year property taxes don't cover the cost of an asphalt road?  How the hell am I supposed to drive my Vette on this road?

And yeah, there are people who have multiple acres here, and property taxes that low.  Mine is a lot higher than that, for an acre, but I can drive my hybrid down the road without losing a tire, so I don't biatch too loud.

Anyway...yeah, people expect their services, but nobody wants to pay for them.  And big businesses didn't want this.
2013-05-06 11:28:52 PM  
1 votes:

Mentat: AdolfOliverPanties: This is another example of why we are farked.
Politicians do not do what constituents want.
They do what big money wants, or they do something that will allow them to take in more of our cash so they can spend it on shiat constituents don't want.

Just because constituents want something doesn't necessarily mean they're right.  Most users still operate under the idea that the Internet is some amorphous entity that popped into existence one day and why the hell should I have to pay money to watch cat videos?  I don't like paying taxes, but you have to admit there's a problem when brick-and-morter stores operate under one set of rules while internet businesses operate under an advantageous other set of rules.  Amazon has made a killing (literally in the case of retailers) exploiting that difference.  I'm all for moving towards digital downloads and online sales, but you can't expect the government to fund its mandates if a huge section of its tax base dries up.  So you have to choose.  Either treat everyone by the same set of rules, or accept that states will have to tighten their belts even more as Amazon gobbles up retailers.


Amazon still maintains its advantage due to its partnerships and ability to quote you from a number of vendors, rather than just what they charge for what they actually have in stock. Amazon is the shiat, with or without sales tax. If you have a fulfillment center in your state (which is likely) you are already paying sales tax on Amazon.
2013-05-06 11:23:59 PM  
1 votes:

Mike_LowELL: - Benghazi
- Dijon Mustard
- ACORN
- Internet Sales Tax

Just adding another item to the list of reasons Taxbongo should be impeached.  Don't mind me.

Just like liberals don't mind showering.  LOL!!!  Get owned, stupid libs.  Get owned.


tjfly: IronTom: basemetal: I thought you guys liked taxes....

That was when the $250k and up were paying them.  This here tax affects everybody who buys stuff on the internet.

Obama: "I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."
Lying SOB.


This Senate version of the bill was introduced by a Republican. So was the House version.  But don't let that stop you from blaming this bill on Obama
2013-05-06 11:14:35 PM  
1 votes:
Well, that's okay, subby.

Since I won't have any more money after they pass the tax than I do right now, this means I'll just have to spend less to offset the difference.

Do the folks in the Senate not get that? In order to pay this new tax, I will have to reduce my spending to offset it. IN OTHER WORDS, YOU'RE FORCING ME TO SPEND LESS MONEY PRE-TAX IN ORDER TO PAY YOUR STUPID TAX. YOU'RE TAKING MONEY OUT OF THE POCKETS OF ONLINE MERCHANTS, NOT ONLINE CONSUMERS, BY PASSING THIS TAX. IS THAT REALLY WHAT YOUR BUSINESS CONSTITUENTS WANTED?

(*tap-tap*) Hello? Is this thing working?
2013-05-06 11:14:24 PM  
1 votes:

tjfly: IronTom: basemetal: I thought you guys liked taxes....

That was when the $250k and up were paying them.  This here tax affects everybody who buys stuff on the internet.

Obama: "I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."
Lying SOB.


Last time I checked, there is no Federal sales tax, even if this passes.  Take it up with your state.  If you live in a state that has a sales tax, you were supposed to be paying it for online purchases all this time.  No more free rides.
2013-05-06 11:06:28 PM  
1 votes:

Gonz: And, if you want to play that out, this will be... less regressive. It'll still be according-to-Hoyle regressive, of course. But it's not like the urban poor have been making out like bandits by avoiding online sales tax. It shifts a slight bit of tax burden to middle and upper-middle class, primarily suburban, consumers. It's not really going to bother the 1%, it's not going to really be an issue for the bottom 20%. For the rest of us- we get to pitch in and pay our share for civilization. Fair enough.


i.imgur.com
2013-05-06 11:04:33 PM  
1 votes:
Cook County board members are gonna be up all night figuring out how to soak me on this, so I got THAT going for me.

"We've devised a new formula, much like the property tax formula. Basically we total OUR bills from last year, then divide by the number of Internet capable devices we estimate are in the county. Your bill will be that number times all of your devices plus $50."
2013-05-06 11:03:48 PM  
1 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: In every Walmart thread, there are countless comments about how people should shun the evil empire and support their local mom and pop stores. Why are you all so upset about this then?


I think the small businesses on the internet would be the most harmed... the big guys can have accountants and lawyers and programmers redo their method of processing in a matter of days... for little guys, they may simply be unable to afford the tax complexities of each and every state they might be shipping to, it could just be the end of them.
2013-05-06 11:00:56 PM  
1 votes:
A lot states, red ones especially, need revenue.  The sequester is killing them.  This is going to mean exactly jack diddley in terms of hurting sales, and it will raise much needed revenue.
2013-05-06 11:00:41 PM  
1 votes:
It seems this is unlikely to affect a lot of small businesses, but is highly likely to create a clusterfark of accounting work for any online business that generates more than $1 mil in profits. Trying to create an online purchasing system to calculate tax rates for different states, in addition to shipping costs, will just make the whole online purchasing process more difficult. But maybe that is the ultimate goal...

And will this boil down to state legislatures? I lived in a county in Florida that added a 1% county tax on top of the state tax. Will individuals purchasing in specific counties eventually be held to these regulations?

/this post got away from me...
2013-05-06 10:58:56 PM  
1 votes:

IronTom: basemetal: I thought you guys liked taxes....

That was when the $250k and up were paying them.  This here tax affects everybody who buys stuff on the internet.


Obama: "I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."
Lying SOB.
2013-05-06 10:57:29 PM  
1 votes:
This is probably unconstitutional.  Essentially, they want to force retailers to pay a tax determined by a government that they have no representation in.  If the state that the business is located in wishes to levy a tax on online retailers located in their state when they sell to out of state customers, that is their choice.  I'd support them doing it like that.

I live in Pennsylvania.  If I buy something from California, the price of that product should have the California sales tax added to it.  The California business can petition their representatives if they feel the tax rate is unfair, or they can relocate to a lower tax jurisdiction, so their rights are being upheld.  On the other hand, if they are forced to pay the Pennsylvania sales tax, they have no redress because they have no representative in the body that is levying the tax on them.
2013-05-06 10:54:19 PM  
1 votes:
I'm sure this will solve illinois' financial problems.
2013-05-06 10:52:52 PM  
1 votes:

feckingmorons: You already have to pay tax on the items you buy from out of state vendors that do not collect sales tax if those items would be taxable in your state. Use tax, not sales tax is what it is called. I file my return and pay the tax quarterly as required by my state of residence, Florida.


You are a sucker.
2013-05-06 10:48:07 PM  
1 votes:
"Supporters say the current tax disparity is turning some traditional stores into showrooms, where shoppers pick out items they like, then buy them on the Internet to avoid sales taxes."

Its not to avoid sales tax. 

(1) Prices are lower in general, anyway
(2) I dont have to carry shiat home
(3) I dont get up-selled on accessories or warranties
(4) Better/easier return policies

sales tax is roughly the 5-th best advantage of online shopping.
2013-05-06 10:47:27 PM  
1 votes:
This has an interesting implication for tax payers in Massachusetts. Sales tax is supposed to be paid on internet purchases, but they're just claimed on the tax form when you file. Here, there is a tax that you can pay that basically says "give us this amount of money, and we'll call it even on all of those internet purchases you're not claiming." It was some small amount that I went ahead and paid, because I don't feel like being audited.

If/when this passes, though, there's no need for that tax, because sales tax will be collected on internet purchases. I just wonder if the state will realize this, and not try to bully taxpayers into paying for it twice.
2013-05-06 10:44:17 PM  
1 votes:

mikemoto: The problem I have with this is that it does not address (at least as far as I can tell) mail order operations in states with no no sales tax. I remember years ago I used to buy old coins from an outfit in New Hampshire and never had to pay sales tax for that reason.


It's based on the delivery address of the sale. E.g. a New Hampshire company selling to a resident of New York has to collect and remit New York state sales tax.  A New York company selling to a New Hampshire resident doesn't collect any tax because NH doesn't have a sales tax.
2013-05-06 10:43:48 PM  
1 votes:
As has been said, this isn't an additional tax. Taxes are not going up. Instead, taxes that are due will actually be collected, instead of ignored as they always have been.

But alas, it will be spun as such...
2013-05-06 10:43:38 PM  
1 votes:
Am I supposed to be somehow outraged by this? Because trying to calculate and pay your in-state tax for online purchases separately to your state is a real serious pain in the ass for me and many others. I guess since sales taxes are inherently regressive its a sorta bad thing, but I can't get outraged. Sorry.
2013-05-06 10:43:10 PM  
1 votes:

TV's Vinnie: I really cannot fathom why the Amazon bigshots want this bill so bad. If it happens, their sales are gonna plummet.


They have the infrastructure in place to put on their big girl panties and deal with it. They also have the scale of economy to keep their pricing competitive. They know many of their competitors do not have either, but generate enough sales that they will have to cope, or go under.
2013-05-06 10:41:17 PM  
1 votes:
Motherfarkers!

It still doesn't solve anything. That money only goes to suits who get to decide what all of us need the most. Probably war.

F.
2013-05-06 10:41:08 PM  
1 votes:
BitwiseShift:
Very concerned about not getting Texas Sales Tax Exemption Certificate not honored by some web seller in East B*ttFark. What an excellent bureacracy the Senate wants to create.


What? Texas has a sales tax...

"The Texas state sales and use tax rate is 6.25%, but local taxing jurisdictions (cities, counties, special purpose districts, and transit authorities) may also impose sales and use tax up to 2% for a total maximum combined rate of 8.25%. " http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/sales/faq_collect.html
2013-05-06 10:39:45 PM  
1 votes:

TV's Vinnie: I really cannot fathom why the Amazon bigshots want this bill so bad. If it happens, their sales are gonna plummet.


Amazon's betting that quick delivery times will overcome a sales tax.  They're actually trying out same day delivery in some places, and you need warehouses near metro areas (ie. in the same state) and subject yourself to physical presence laws to do that.  Small internet companies can't compete on affordable speedy delivery.  Forcing them into the tax too puts Amazon at an advantage.
2013-05-06 10:33:36 PM  
1 votes:

ArkAngel: Thoguh: I don't have a problem with this.  It'll cut down on really blatant tax evasion, that's it.  And smaller companies won't have to "deal with 9,000 tax codes" or anything like that.  Some vendor will see a business opportunity to run all that stuff for a small surcharge and all the small businesses will just contract through them.

Smaller companies won't have to deal with it at all. It excuses all companies with less than one million in online sales.


Just give it time. All taxes get bigger and more invasive, never the other way around.
2013-05-06 10:33:02 PM  
1 votes:
Supporters say the current tax disparity is turning some traditional stores into showrooms, where shoppers pick out items they like, then buy them on the Internet to avoid sales taxes.

No, we sometimes do that because the internet almost always offers significantly better deals. If the discrepancy were $5, $10 or even $20 I'd rather pay the difference and the tax and have the item in my hands that day (the shipping savings would likely counteract the tax anyway). But when you're charging $189 for an item newegg.com sells for $99, what do you expect?

That the internet undercuts you isn't my problem. The way things exist now, the bricks and the bytes co-exist. You just want a stronger piece of the pie and are appealing to state governments' need of revenue to get it.
2013-05-06 10:32:48 PM  
1 votes:

clancifer: Good.


www.charlock.org
2013-05-06 10:31:48 PM  
1 votes:
Maine requires me to pay online sales tax, whether I bought anything or not. 0.008% of my income is their default. Last year I bought a computer and some tools/books online, all for schooling. They got most of my refund back on that deal.
2013-05-06 10:30:21 PM  
1 votes:

Bathia_Mapes: fusillade762: t me. No sales tax in Oregon. Neener, neener.

FTA...Under the legislation, the sales taxes would be sent to the state where the shopper lives.

So, if an Oregon online business sold items to someone living in a state that has a sales tax, the online retailer would be required to collect the sales tax and send it to that state.

And this is going to be particularly hard on small online retailers. However, businesses with less than $1 million in online sales would be exempt.


There are some states that have an origin-based tax. If you buy from a vendor in an origin-based state and you're in a destination-based state, it can get a little weird.

Here's a list, can't vouch for its accuracy on every state but I can promise you that NY and NJ are correct.
2013-05-06 10:27:59 PM  
1 votes:
www.charlock.org
2013-05-06 10:24:37 PM  
1 votes:

jeffowl: Vodka Zombie: basemetal: I thought you guys liked taxes....

I like society and civilization and all the wonderful trappings that come along with it.

Like roads and bridges and, yes, parks.

And you like paying for them in the most regressive way possible?


As opposed to progressive income taxes on the wealthy?
2013-05-06 10:23:58 PM  
1 votes:
FTFA: "As a result, many online sales are tax-free, giving Internet retailers an advantage over brick-and-mortar stores."

Ummm...yeah...no...

Internet retailers offer an overall less expensive price because they do not have to staff multiple physical locations and pay all the bills that come with traditional brick-and-mortar sales locations.

I have never purchased a single item online simply to save a few bucks from sales tax...I've purchased stuff online because it is usually 20%-30% less.
2013-05-06 10:22:47 PM  
1 votes:
It just farking amazes me that things like minor gun control, equal pay for women, and healthcare do not pass, but a tax on everything passes without a problem...man you guys really need to start getting pissed about the way they run this place.
2013-05-06 10:22:35 PM  
1 votes:
So once this passes and brick and mortar stores still get trounced by the internet what will be the excuse be next time?  How about local sales tax?
2013-05-06 10:21:38 PM  
1 votes:
YEAs ---69

Alexander (R-TN)
Baldwin (D-WI)
Bennet (D-CO)
Blumenthal (D-CT)
Blunt (R-MO)
Boozman (R-AR)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Burr (R-NC)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coats (R-IN)
Cochran (R-MS)
Collins (R-ME)
Coons (D-DE)
Corker (R-TN)
Cowan (D-MA)
Donnelly (D-IN)
Durbin (D-IL)
Enzi (R-WY)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Fischer (R-NE)
Franken (D-MN)
Gillibrand (D-NY)
Graham (R-SC)
Hagan (D-NC)
Harkin (D-IA)
Heinrich (D-NM)
Heitkamp (D-ND)
Hirono (D-HI)
Hoeven (R-ND)
Isakson (R-GA)
Johanns (R-NE)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kaine (D-VA)
King (I-ME)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Manchin (D-WV)
McCain (R-AZ)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murphy (D-CT)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Portman (R-OH)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sanders (I-VT)
Schatz (D-HI)
Schumer (D-NY)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Thune (R-SD)
Udall (D-CO)
Udall (D-NM)
Warner (D-VA)
Warren (D-MA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wicker (R-MS)


NAYs ---27

Ayotte (R-NH)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Baucus (D-MT)
Coburn (R-OK)
Crapo (R-ID)
Cruz (R-TX)
Flake (R-AZ)
Grassley (R-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Heller (R-NV)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Johnson (R-WI)
Kirk (R-IL)
Lee (R-UT)
McConnell (R-KY)
Merkley (D-OR)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Paul (R-KY)
Risch (R-ID)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rubio (R-FL)
Scott (R-SC)
Shaheen (D-NH)
Tester (D-MT)
Toomey (R-PA)
Vitter (R-LA)
Wyden (D-OR)


Not Voting - 4

Begich (D-AK)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Moran (R-KS)
2013-05-06 10:21:14 PM  
1 votes:

AdolfOliverPanties: This is another example of why we are farked.
Politicians do not do what constituents want.
They do what big money wants, or they do something that will allow them to take in more of our cash so they can spend it on shiat constituents don't want.


Like functional, modern infrastructure.
2013-05-06 10:20:22 PM  
1 votes:
As someone who deals with sales tax for my company on a regular basis, this will make my job a lot easier since more companies will actually charge the proper tax on our purchases.

For others it sucks, though really it's more of a stricter way to enforce tax laws already in place than it is a creation of a new tax. Depending on your state you're technically breaking the law by not paying use tax on your out-of-state purchases, but you were also unlikely to get caught. This lessens that a bit.
2013-05-06 10:18:41 PM  
1 votes:
Sorry brick and mortar stores, you are still just showrooms or I need it now stores. My large purchases will still be done mostly online because it costs less.

\yes, I have to and do pay the sales tax where I live for online purchases
2013-05-06 10:18:25 PM  
1 votes:

IronTom: basemetal: I thought you guys liked taxes....

That was when the $250k and up were paying them.  This here tax affects everybody who buys stuff on the internet.


Exactly. Don't tax the losers.
2013-05-06 10:18:10 PM  
1 votes:
If local governments didn't waste so much money they wouldn't be in this situation.
2013-05-06 10:17:14 PM  
1 votes:
So canadians are still free to buy online from US companies without having to pay taxes then?
2013-05-06 10:16:20 PM  
1 votes:

Triumph: homeschooled: Raise your hand if you answered $0 when your state tax return asked the dollar amount of out of state or online purchases that you owed taxes on.

PA and DE state governments advertise to Marylanders about traveling north for tax-free shopping. If it's evasion, it's government sanctioned.


This is also true of NJ advertising tax-free clothing to New Yorkers.
2013-05-06 10:16:09 PM  
1 votes:
Why?  Equal taxation, that's why.
2013-05-06 10:12:09 PM  
1 votes:
It will never pass the House just calm down everyone. There won't be an internet sales tax imposed in most states in the near future.
2013-05-06 10:10:58 PM  
1 votes:
Goddamned Republicans.
2013-05-06 10:10:49 PM  
1 votes:

IronTom: basemetal: I thought you guys liked taxes....

That was when the $250k and up were paying them.  This here tax affects everybody who buys stuff on the internet.


Not me. No sales tax in Oregon. Neener, neener.
2013-05-06 10:10:49 PM  
1 votes:
There goes the Dow tomorrow. Again.
2013-05-06 10:10:06 PM  
1 votes:
Does TF cost $5.30 now?
2013-05-06 09:56:19 PM  
1 votes:
So does this mean they're gonna start going after other tax evasion? Or is it like the airport thing where it's still more important to not inconvenience the upper class?
 
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