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(Slate)   Tough week for the ladies playing The Game of Thrones. Updated power rankings   (slate.com) divider line 103
    More: Interesting, Game of Thrones, the Game of Thrones, Arya, sense of wonder, rankings, Sansa  
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5368 clicks; posted to Geek » on 06 May 2013 at 6:42 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-06 05:15:56 PM  
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2013-05-06 05:19:05 PM  
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2013-05-06 05:20:31 PM  
How can Sansa continue to be so naive after her experiences with Joffrey? If that's the way she's written in the books, I think it's a little unrealistic. No one could be that stupid.
 
2013-05-06 05:38:35 PM  

Cythraul: How can Sansa continue to be so naive after her experiences with Joffrey? If that's the way she's written in the books, I think it's a little unrealistic. No one could be that stupid.


I wouldn't call it stupid. She is a believer. She actually believes the fairytales and legends! It's covered better in the book with her drunk Knight that tries to save her. But I like how the show handles her. Without her internal monologue I can actually pity the girl. In the book her bloody death could not come fast enough.
 
2013-05-06 06:02:30 PM  
I'm putting all my money on Robb Stark to survive the whole thing!
 
2013-05-06 06:12:47 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Cythraul: How can Sansa continue to be so naive after her experiences with Joffrey? If that's the way she's written in the books, I think it's a little unrealistic. No one could be that stupid.

I wouldn't call it stupid. She is a believer. She actually believes the fairytales and legends! It's covered better in the book with her drunk Knight that tries to save her. But I like how the show handles her. Without her internal monologue I can actually pity the girl. In the book her bloody death could not come fast enough.


Geez, man. A little spoiler alert would have been nice.
 
2013-05-06 06:14:27 PM  

Shostie: I'm putting all my money on Robb Stark to survive the whole thing!


No way, man. Daenerys, for the win. As long as she is able to control her dragons, and doesn't lapse into the insanity her family is known for, she will rule all.
 
2013-05-06 06:17:58 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Cythraul: How can Sansa continue to be so naive after her experiences with Joffrey? If that's the way she's written in the books, I think it's a little unrealistic. No one could be that stupid.

I wouldn't call it stupid. She is a believer. She actually believes the fairytales and legends! It's covered better in the book with her drunk Knight that tries to save her. But I like how the show handles her. Without her internal monologue I can actually pity the girl. In the book her bloody death could not come fast enough.


I really think she's stupid. Her mother is an idiot, and her dad had many admirable qualities but he wasn't exactly a genius either.

I think the show does a great job with her, portraying her as often sympathetic (although IMO more sympathetic than in the books) but always stupid when it comes to fairytales.
 
2013-05-06 06:22:19 PM  

Cythraul: Geez, man. A little spoiler alert would have been nice.


never said she died or not. Just said it could come soon enough, never said it did come.
 
2013-05-06 06:24:02 PM  

I Said: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Cythraul: How can Sansa continue to be so naive after her experiences with Joffrey? If that's the way she's written in the books, I think it's a little unrealistic. No one could be that stupid.

I wouldn't call it stupid. She is a believer. She actually believes the fairytales and legends! It's covered better in the book with her drunk Knight that tries to save her. But I like how the show handles her. Without her internal monologue I can actually pity the girl. In the book her bloody death could not come fast enough.

I really think she's stupid. Her mother is an idiot, and her dad had many admirable qualities but he wasn't exactly a genius either.

I think the show does a great job with her, portraying her as often sympathetic (although IMO more sympathetic than in the books) but always stupid when it comes to fairytales.


I never got the impression that Kat was 'stupid.' What makes you say that?
 
2013-05-06 06:28:50 PM  

Cythraul: I never got the impression that Kat was 'stupid.' What makes you say that?


She had literally and figurative captured the opposing force's knight and she let him go (along with a very fine fighter) in the hopes of getting back a couple of pawns.

She let her heart get ahead of her brains.
 
2013-05-06 06:32:01 PM  

Cythraul: I never got the impression that Kat was 'stupid.' What makes you say that?


1) Sending back Jaime. "But she's a mother etc etc" - don't care. She sends him back , to his family, which her family is fighting a war against, through a warzone under the care of the most conspicuous looking knight in the realm, in the off chance that now that they have their prized hostage back they'll simply give her hers. Stupid. No thought to how it could hurt Robert, or his war effort, or those around her that Jaime and his family have personally harmed. Edmure is far from being the only dumb Tully without foresight.

2) Arresting Tyrion. With the only evidence being that the killer's blade may have belonged to Tyrion. Assume she could/should trust Petyr: why would Tyrion hire an assassin to use his own damn blade? Then, does she take him to Winterfell? No, but to her estranged and insane sister in the Vale. Leaving Winterfell, mind you, under the rule of her two pre-school sons (obviously with help, but you get my point).

I love the Starks, but dammit they can be so dumb.
 
2013-05-06 06:40:04 PM  
I think in this ranking that Cersei and Ros need to be the two lowest: Cersei has no power despite all the privilege in the world. If this were a sports power ranking, Cersei has an all-star team of talent and is winless. She can't control Joff, her father is using her as a baby maker to be sold (again), and the only thing in the show she ever accomplished was kidnapping a woman she thought Tyrion was f*cking . . . but wasn't.

Ros: well this is the most tragic non-book character yet.
1) She dead
2) She served Petyr, only to be rented to Joff and forced to torture her friend
3) She was loyally quite re: Tyrions gf, and was beaten as a result. She gained nothing from that.
4) She tries to jump ship and serve Varys, who promises her protection, and gets tortured for her troubles
 
2013-05-06 06:55:47 PM  

I Said: Cersei has no power despite all the privilege in the world. If this were a sports power ranking, Cersei has an all-star team of talent and is winless.


Cersei = Toronto Blue Jays
 
2013-05-06 07:02:46 PM  

Shostie: I'm putting all my money on Robb Stark to survive the whole thing!


good for you, man.

after steady ned-y, no stark could be so stupid as to lose the game... Robb "I marry for love", Jon "knows nothing", bran "shoulda had wings", etc.

/everyone knows it's Dany who will magically come back with her magic plot powers to win the throne via magic
 
2013-05-06 07:03:28 PM  
Hey, in power rankings if a person/team gets a bye week (hi Daenerys) you don't fall totally off the rankings.  geez you girls.....
 
2013-05-06 07:07:59 PM  

Cythraul: Geez, man. A little spoiler alert would have been nice.


He's saying that he hopes for her bloody death.

Spoiler: In the books, Sansa wins the Game of Thrones. First place.
 
2013-05-06 07:09:02 PM  
xxxSPOILER ALERTxxx

Some of the Starks' internal struggles are lost in the TV series, or rather they've changed shape:

Catelyn: It was clear in the books that Catelyn was slowly becoming unhinged. She got crazier as time went on, first with the death of Ned, then the unknown whereabouts of her two other children, arresting Tyrion, etc etc. Setting Jaime free came as no great surprise because it was quite clear she would be willing to abandon her duties to Winterfell if it meant getting her family back. And her derangement continues until her untimely demise

Sansa: My impression from the books is that Sansa quickly came to hate Joffrey; her admiration for him didn't last long after their first encounter. She largely remains quiet because she realizes her own powerlessness in her situation. Sansa is probably the most restricted of all the Starks. She has little choice but to play along - for now.

xxxEND SPOILERxxx
 
2013-05-06 07:11:33 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: Cythraul: Geez, man. A little spoiler alert would have been nice.

He's saying that he hopes for her bloody death.

Spoiler: In the books, Sansa wins the Game of Thrones. First place.


only if Littlefinger scratches his Kat itch through Sansa & drags her to the top with him.
 
2013-05-06 07:11:43 PM  

Cythraul: How can Sansa continue to be so naive after her experiences with Joffrey? If that's the way she's written in the books, I think it's a little unrealistic. No one could be that stupid.


She's drank the Kool-Aid on the storybook descriptions of knights, chivalry, marriage, etc. And that's pretty much the flaw of all the Starks, which is why they keep getting outmaneuvered by their enemies.

So far her depiction in the show tracks closely to the books.

I actually find her one of the more compelling characters in the book.
 
2013-05-06 07:14:22 PM  
Poor poor Ros.
 
2013-05-06 07:14:44 PM  

legion_of_doo: only if Littlefinger scratches his Kat itch through Sansa & drags her to the top with him.


Seems clear to me that zombie Kat is going to fark Littlefinger up.
 
2013-05-06 07:15:07 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: Cythraul: Geez, man. A little spoiler alert would have been nice.

He's saying that he hopes for her bloody death.

Spoiler: In the books, Sansa wins the Game of Thrones. First place.


She would never have made it without the support of General Hodor.
 
2013-05-06 07:19:53 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: legion_of_doo: only if Littlefinger scratches his Kat itch through Sansa & drags her to the top with him.

Seems clear to me that zombie Kat is going to fark Littlefinger up.


oh yes, that would be delightful.

especially if she catches Littlefinger and Sansa in flagrante delicto.

that would be marvelous.
 
2013-05-06 07:24:48 PM  

Cagey B: tallguywithglasseson: Cythraul: Geez, man. A little spoiler alert would have been nice.

He's saying that he hopes for her bloody death.

Spoiler: In the books, Sansa wins the Game of Thrones. First place.

She would never have made it without the support of General Hodor.


no way.

it's clear Dany will marry Hodor, not Jon Snow, and Hodor will be the new dragon king.

/ you don't want to wake the Hodor
 
2013-05-06 07:29:24 PM  

I Said: I really think she's stupid. Her mother is an idiot, and her dad had many admirable qualities but he wasn't exactly a genius either.

I think the show does a great job with her, portraying her as often sympathetic (although IMO more sympathetic than in the books) but always stupid when it comes to fairytales.


The Starks seemed to be regarded as pretty dumb by the other houses. Ned proved this better than any by revealing his hand to Cerci, losing his head, and causing his children all kinds of misery and things that would be spoilers. The exception seems to be Rob, who was a pretty able commander.

But anyway... this article... wtf_is_this_shiat.jpg
 
2013-05-06 07:32:48 PM  
I just want to point out that Lord Walder will probably die of old age rather receive the death he deserves for breaking guest right.  Perhaps though, in westoros after life, he will be forced to watch his family declare war on itself.
 
2013-05-06 07:35:14 PM  

Pete_T_Mann: I Said: I really think she's stupid. Her mother is an idiot, and her dad had many admirable qualities but he wasn't exactly a genius either.

I think the show does a great job with her, portraying her as often sympathetic (although IMO more sympathetic than in the books) but always stupid when it comes to fairytales.

The Starks seemed to be regarded as pretty dumb by the other houses. Ned proved this better than any by revealing his hand to Cerci, losing his head, and causing his children all kinds of misery and things that would be spoilers. The exception seems to be Rob, who was a pretty able commander.

But anyway... this article... wtf_is_this_shiat.jpg


but rob is probably one of the stupidest. He executes a valuable soldier who killed the lannister boys, and betrayed themarriage contract. We all know how well frey sr handles that.
 
2013-05-06 07:35:48 PM  

legion_of_doo: tallguywithglasseson: Cythraul: Geez, man. A little spoiler alert would have been nice.

He's saying that he hopes for her bloody death.

Spoiler: In the books, Sansa wins the Game of Thrones. First place.

only if Littlefinger scratches his Kat itch through Sansa & drags her to the top with him.


Sansa marries Littlefinger making him Lord of Winterfell, Protector of the Vail, Lord of Harrenhal and Lord Paramount of the Trident.

He picks up the Iron Throne to add to the collection.

Sansa gives him a male child then cuts his throat. Boom she wins.
 
2013-05-06 07:42:03 PM  

legion_of_doo: Shostie: I'm putting all my money on Robb Stark to survive the whole thing!

good for you, man.

after steady ned-y, no stark could be so stupid as to lose the game... Robb "I marry for love", Jon "knows nothing", bran "shoulda had wings", etc.

/everyone knows it's Dany who will magically come back with her magic plot powers to win the throne via magic


At least Arya runs with "kill every rotten farker" as her operating mode.
 
2013-05-06 07:51:32 PM  

FunkOut: legion_of_doo: Shostie: I'm putting all my money on Robb Stark to survive the whole thing!

good for you, man.

after steady ned-y, no stark could be so stupid as to lose the game... Robb "I marry for love", Jon "knows nothing", bran "shoulda had wings", etc.

/everyone knows it's Dany who will magically come back with her magic plot powers to win the throne via magic

At least Arya runs with "kill every rotten farker" as her operating mode.


yeah, but she disobeyed and broke the stark curse by going faceless and magic ninja.

and Tywin was right there! the girl was promised three names.
 
2013-05-06 07:52:56 PM  

Cythraul: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Cythraul: How can Sansa continue to be so naive after her experiences with Joffrey? If that's the way she's written in the books, I think it's a little unrealistic. No one could be that stupid.

I wouldn't call it stupid. She is a believer. She actually believes the fairytales and legends! It's covered better in the book with her drunk Knight that tries to save her. But I like how the show handles her. Without her internal monologue I can actually pity the girl. In the book her bloody death could not come fast enough.

Geez, man. A little spoiler alert would have been nice.


He's speaking hypothetically...she doesn't actually die.
 
2013-05-06 07:55:53 PM  

I Said: Cythraul: I never got the impression that Kat was 'stupid.' What makes you say that?

1) Sending back Jaime. "But she's a mother etc etc" - don't care. She sends him back , to his family, which her family is fighting a war against, through a warzone under the care of the most conspicuous looking knight in the realm, in the off chance that now that they have their prized hostage back they'll simply give her hers. Stupid. No thought to how it could hurt Robert, or his war effort, or those around her that Jaime and his family have personally harmed. Edmure is far from being the only dumb Tully without foresight.


Yes, that was foolish. Mind you, this doesn't even begin to compare to Robb's inability to keep it in his pants and the subsequent outcome of that (which I'm trying not to spoil). 

2) Arresting Tyrion. With the only evidence being that the killer's blade may have belonged to Tyrion. Assume she could/should trust Petyr: why would Tyrion hire an assassin to use his own damn blade? Then, does she take him to Winterfell? No, but to her estranged and insane sister in the Vale. Leaving Winterfell, mind you, under the rule of her two pre-school sons (obviously with help, but you get my point).

I don't think that was quite as foolish. Bear in mind that the notion of due process doesn't exist in this world and that people have a medieval mindset. She had the evidence of the dagger, but she also had Tyrion's dwarfism.  Yes, to  us that's stupid, but in the context of the world that she comes from, his deformity (and, let us not forget, reputation) were strikes against his moral character.

As for going to the Vale, as I recall, getting to Winterfeld was not an option. I've have to read the books, again, to refresh why, but I remember that it was covered.

Beyond that, however, is the fact that  everyone makes stupid decision, in the books. That's part of Martin's deconstruction of the genre. The "heroes" are just as prone as the "villains" to be either smart or stupid with everyone taking a turn doing both. Even the most intelligent players -- your Varys' and your Tyrions -- make horrifically bad decisions for good and bad reasons. No one is a perfect person and things like a mother being driven out of her mind over worry for her kids is, quite realistically, one of those things that gum up the works.

That's why I draw the line at the Kat hate. It often seems to come from a desire to choose  someone who is to blame for the whole mess when the entire point of the books is that the world is so complicated that no one is really in control of how history unfolds. There are too many players, too many agendas, and too many unknowns for people to direct it. At best, you have the illusion of control as schemes clash against one another but, in the end, the only certainty is that winter is coming.
 
2013-05-06 07:56:56 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: legion_of_doo: tallguywithglasseson: Cythraul: Geez, man. A little spoiler alert would have been nice.

He's saying that he hopes for her bloody death.

Spoiler: In the books, Sansa wins the Game of Thrones. First place.

only if Littlefinger scratches his Kat itch through Sansa & drags her to the top with him.

Sansa marries Littlefinger making him Lord of Winterfell, Protector of the Vail, Lord of Harrenhal and Lord Paramount of the Trident.

He picks up the Iron Throne to add to the collection.

Sansa gives him a male child then cuts his throat. Boom she wins.


if only she were not a docile milch cow, that might be more plausible than zombie Kat or general Hodor.

/I would do the game of thrones mod for crusader kings 2, but I am having far too much fun as a Muslim caliph
 
2013-05-06 08:01:42 PM  

Pete_T_Mann: I Said: I really think she's stupid. Her mother is an idiot, and her dad had many admirable qualities but he wasn't exactly a genius either.

I think the show does a great job with her, portraying her as often sympathetic (although IMO more sympathetic than in the books) but always stupid when it comes to fairytales.

The Starks seemed to be regarded as pretty dumb by the other houses. Ned proved this better than any by revealing his hand to Cerci, losing his head, and causing his children all kinds of misery and things that would be spoilers. The exception seems to be Rob, who was a pretty able commander.

But anyway... this article... wtf_is_this_shiat.jpg


Robb was pretty damn stupid in most of his decisions. He was great strategically and tactically but he didn't know how to rule.

1. No matter how much you trust the hostage, letting them go back to a known rebel is a dang bad idea.
2. Marry for love. For f*ck sake man, it's called a concubine. Even Paul "I can't turn into a God to save humanity" Atreides knew enough not to marry for love.
3. Letting mommy go to war. I mean, I get it, having her along might be nice but having her shrill one insane suggestion after another would've put some idea into your head that she doesn't belong there.

Those 3 things are the sole cause of....well, his place in the Game of Thrones.
 
2013-05-06 08:05:34 PM  

Cythraul: How can Sansa continue to be so naive after her experiences with Joffrey? If that's the way she's written in the books, I think it's a little unrealistic. No one could be that stupid.


She's a bit dim and quite naive. One of those "very slow on the uptake" types.
 
2013-05-06 08:09:10 PM  
Spoiler alert: Everyone you get attached to dies horribly.

Everyone.
 
2013-05-06 08:12:36 PM  
between Robb marrying for love and Kat trading the Kingslayer for the two girls... it's hard to say who was more Starkly.

One cost them a little bit more grief in the end.
 
2013-05-06 08:15:57 PM  

dillenger69: Spoiler alert: Everyone you get attached to dies horribly.

Everyone.


I'm looking forward to when Robb attacks King's Landing, riding his wolf, and kills Tyrion.
 
2013-05-06 08:43:45 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: legion_of_doo: tallguywithglasseson: Cythraul: Geez, man. A little spoiler alert would have been nice.

He's saying that he hopes for her bloody death.

Spoiler: In the books, Sansa wins the Game of Thrones. First place.

only if Littlefinger scratches his Kat itch through Sansa & drags her to the top with him.

Sansa marries Littlefinger making him Lord of Winterfell, Protector of the Vail, Lord of Harrenhal and Lord Paramount of the Trident.

He picks up the Iron Throne to add to the collection.

Sansa gives him a male child then cuts his throat. Boom she wins.


I like it, Mr. Martin.
 
2013-05-06 08:46:14 PM  
Am I the only person who doesn't care if there is a spoiler, and can still enjoy the show?

/spoilers never ruin it for me
 
2013-05-06 08:48:16 PM  
Also, in the books, most of these people are in their teens. So, yeah, there will be some stupid decisions made.
 
2013-05-06 08:49:36 PM  
Also, the only death I really look forward to seeing is Joffrey.

/really can't wait to see that one
 
2013-05-06 08:50:26 PM  

zenobia: Also, in the books, most of these people are in their teens. So, yeah, there will be some stupid decisions made.


THIS. I was fairly shocked to learn that in the books Robb is only like 15... of course he marry's for love without thinking of the consequences. It's the first time he's really been in love and it'll totally last FOREVER.

It seems a more hasty decision when the guy making it is in his late 20's, however.
 
2013-05-06 08:54:19 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: I wouldn't call it stupid. She is a believer.


What's the distinction?  Even elementary school girls can distinguish between fact and fantasy, so the idea that fairy tales are in need of deconstruction is something of a straw man.  If Sansa really needs to be told that tales like Sleeping Beauty are not in fact biographies then she's probably on the wrong side of the fine line between dumb and retarded.
 
2013-05-06 08:56:33 PM  

basemetal: Am I the only person who doesn't care if there is a spoiler, and can still enjoy the show?

/spoilers never ruin it for me


Let you won't mind me telling you that Hodor rapes Bran. The Hodoring is terrible.
 
2013-05-06 08:58:01 PM  

dragonchild: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I wouldn't call it stupid. She is a believer.

What's the distinction?  Even elementary school girls can distinguish between fact and fantasy, so the idea that fairy tales are in need of deconstruction is something of a straw man.  If Sansa really needs to be told that tales like Sleeping Beauty are not in fact biographies then she's probably on the wrong side of the fine line between dumb and retarded.


So what I'm getting out of this is you were never a child.
 
2013-05-06 09:03:18 PM  

dragonchild: The Stealth Hippopotamus: I wouldn't call it stupid. She is a believer.

What's the distinction?  Even elementary school girls can distinguish between fact and fantasy, so the idea that fairy tales are in need of deconstruction is something of a straw man.  If Sansa really needs to be told that tales like Sleeping Beauty are not in fact biographies then she's probably on the wrong side of the fine line between dumb and retarded.


Uhhh, in the world this is set in there are knights and tournaments and princes and servants and all the rest.  It's just that the knights are assholes, the princes are psychos, and the servants will stab you in the back for a few coins.

In Sansa's world, she can actually go visit Sleeping Beauty's castle, and she gets to shiat in the chamberpots too!

/Re-reading the whole set to get primed for a viewing binge.
//no HBP, been saving up to watch whole seasons at a time.
 
2013-05-06 09:04:17 PM  
dammit, HBO.
 
2013-05-06 09:14:13 PM  

Pete_T_Mann: I Said: I really think she's stupid. Her mother is an idiot, and her dad had many admirable qualities but he wasn't exactly a genius either.

I think the show does a great job with her, portraying her as often sympathetic (although IMO more sympathetic than in the books) but always stupid when it comes to fairytales.

The Starks seemed to be regarded as pretty dumb by the other houses. Ned proved this better than any by revealing his hand to Cerci, losing his head, and causing his children all kinds of misery and things that would be spoilers. The exception seems to be Rob, who was a pretty able commander.

But anyway... this article... wtf_is_this_shiat.jpg


The problem is that the North is considered backwards and old fashioned by the rest of Westeros, they still worship the Old Gods and for the most part Starks married other Northern Houses.

Ned's Grandfather changed all that and married off his kids to Southern Houses, one of the reasons behind Rob's rebellion.
 
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