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(Sports Illustrated)   The Armond White of basketball writers explains why he was the only guy not to vote for LeBron James as League MVP this year. Short answer? Because he's an idiot who thinks Carmelo Anthony "meant more to his team"   (sportsillustrated.cnn.com) divider line 91
    More: Dumbass, LeBron James, Armond White, MVP, Carmelo Anthony, MVP awards, Knicks  
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850 clicks; posted to Sports » on 06 May 2013 at 11:07 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-06 10:48:01 AM
There's always a hater.
 
2013-05-06 10:49:53 AM
I still think its hillarious that people actually thought Dan LeBatard was the lone non-LeBron voter.
 
2013-05-06 11:10:50 AM
Not unanimous. The tiny fist has been shaken.
 
2013-05-06 11:14:06 AM
John Hollinger's Estimated Wins Added Statistic:

1. LeBron James, 30.3
7. Carmelo Anthony, 17.7

Carmelo Anthony meant an extra -17 wins for his team compared to LeBron James.
 
2013-05-06 11:14:45 AM
At least he had a reason other than "I didn't want James to be unanimous"
 
2013-05-06 11:14:56 AM
MAybe you're not that valuable if you have to go join two other stars to win anything?
 
2013-05-06 11:16:30 AM
Nothing better than the argument of "Well yeah the other guy is a much better player, but I think the true value of a player is determined by the quality of the team around him. And I think that this guy's team in an imaginary world where the star doesn't play would be worse."
 
2013-05-06 11:16:31 AM

On the Side: MAybe you're not that valuable if you have to go join two other stars to win anything?


Name the last NBA star to win a championship on a team that didn't have a second star.
 
2013-05-06 11:18:41 AM

On the Side: MAybe you're not that valuable if you have to go join two other stars to win anything?


You're right. LeBron is not only the best player in the league, but he's the best GM in the league.
 
2013-05-06 11:20:53 AM
Has he received death threats yet from obsessed LeBron fans?
 
2013-05-06 11:22:34 AM
But decision, comic sans, pep rally, and so forth reasons.

Therefore Carmelo Anthony is MVP.
 
2013-05-06 11:23:52 AM

Dafatone: On the Side: MAybe you're not that valuable if you have to go join two other stars to win anything?

Name the last NBA star to win a championship on a team that didn't have a second star.


Hakeem Olajuwon
 
2013-05-06 11:24:22 AM

Dafatone: On the Side: MAybe you're not that valuable if you have to go join two other stars to win anything?

Name the last NBA star to win a championship on a team that didn't have a second star.


The Dallas Mavericks
 
2013-05-06 11:25:14 AM

srhp29: Dafatone: On the Side: MAybe you're not that valuable if you have to go join two other stars to win anything?

Name the last NBA star to win a championship on a team that didn't have a second star.

The Dallas Mavericks


Sorry...I meant Dirk Nowitski
 
2013-05-06 11:25:20 AM

IAmRight: Nothing better than the argument of "Well yeah the other guy is a much better player, but I think the true value of a player is determined by the quality of the team around him. And I think that this guy's team in an imaginary world where the star doesn't play would be worse."


This is something that goes on in MVP voting in every sport, because different people have different ideas of what "MVP" actually means.
"How bad would the team suck without him?" is a metric many people use.
 
2013-05-06 11:25:49 AM

Dafatone: Name the last NBA star to win a championship on a team that didn't have a second star.


Rasheed Wallace?
 
2013-05-06 11:26:47 AM

Dafatone: On the Side: MAybe you're not that valuable if you have to go join two other stars to win anything?

Name the last NBA star to win a championship on a team that didn't have a second star.


Isn't that kind of why someone could perceive Melo as valuable this year?  Who's he got with him really?
 
2013-05-06 11:26:57 AM

Dafatone: On the Side: MAybe you're not that valuable if you have to go join two other stars to win anything?

Name the last NBA star to win a championship on a team that didn't have a second star.


Pistons
 
2013-05-06 11:27:13 AM

srhp29: Dafatone: On the Side: MAybe you're not that valuable if you have to go join two other stars to win anything?

Name the last NBA star to win a championship on a team that didn't have a second star.

The Dallas Mavericks


Detroit Pistons
 
2013-05-06 11:28:01 AM

Dafatone: On the Side: MAybe you're not that valuable if you have to go join two other stars to win anything?

Name the last NBA star to win a championship on a team that didn't have a second star.


you guessed it..
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-05-06 11:33:53 AM

Boeheimian Rhapsody: Dafatone: On the Side: MAybe you're not that valuable if you have to go join two other stars to win anything?

Name the last NBA star to win a championship on a team that didn't have a second star.

Hakeem Olajuwon


Clyde Drexler was still putting up 20 points a game and made the All-NBA 3rd Team the last time the Rockets won in '95. The '94 Rockets, on the other hand, were Olajuwon and a bunch of nobodies. But Nowitzki would be a more recent example anyway, as has been pointed out.
 
2013-05-06 11:35:26 AM

The Bestest: IAmRight: Nothing better than the argument of "Well yeah the other guy is a much better player, but I think the true value of a player is determined by the quality of the team around him. And I think that this guy's team in an imaginary world where the star doesn't play would be worse."

This is something that goes on in MVP voting in every sport, because different people have different ideas of what "MVP" actually means.
"How bad would the team suck without him?" is a metric many people use.


And it's perfectly valid.  Vlad won the 2004 AL MVP because he was the decisive player that put the team on his back on a team that had fought to the last day to make the playoffs.  MVP generally is most valuable to their team.

As far as this year, I think that Chris Paul and Kobe both had good cases for the MVP because of what they meant to their respective teams.
 
2013-05-06 11:35:57 AM

On the Side: Name the last NBA star to win a championship on a team that didn't have a second star.

Isn't that kind of why someone could perceive Melo as valuable this year? Who's he got with him really?


He's a long long way from winning a championship. Plenty of guys have singlehandedly dragged their team into the playoffs, that doesn't make them MVP.

(For the purposes of this discussion, we're granting that a team with Tyson Chandler, Jason Kidd, JR Smith, and occasional cameos from Amare Stoudamire can be dragged singlehandledly anywhere)
 
2013-05-06 11:38:50 AM

Decillion: Dafatone: On the Side: MAybe you're not that valuable if you have to go join two other stars to win anything?

Name the last NBA star to win a championship on a team that didn't have a second star.

Pistons


You can argue the Pistons had no stars.  Though you'd be wrong.

Sheed, Billups, Rip, and Ben Wallace are four very, very, VERY good players.  Someone upthread said Rasheed, but he was 3rd on the team in points and 4th in minutes.  Certainly not above some of the other guys.

The Mavs were mentioned.  Dirk went crazy, pretty much won it by himself, and is close to an example.  Tyson Chandler brings an AWFUL lot of defense, though.

Hakeem had Drexler one year and no Drexler the other year.  That's the best one I can think of.

You need more than one great player to win (almost all the time.)  MJ had Pippen.  Pippen's better than Wade.
 
2013-05-06 11:38:56 AM
Reiterating, indubitably:

andrewjpatrick.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-05-06 11:39:41 AM
It's all in how you look at it. If you're just looking at it as 'best player in the world' then Yeah its Lebron. If you look at it as 'Player having the best season' then also Lebron. If you look at it as 'Most Valuable' i.e. where would the team be without him then you can make a case for Carmelo. Not a great one, but a case.

The argument is that without Carmelo the Knicks would be a lottery team. But if you look at the roster and the rest of the east I don't think thats the case. They'd be mediocre for sure, but does making the jump from mediocre to good make you more valuable than making the jump from very good to great?

I think the answer is no. Yeah the Heat still make the playoffs without Lebron but there's no super win streak and no 'Fo, fo, fo' potential.

One other problem is that even with the argument the guy is making about value-to-team Carmelo meant less to the Knicks than Harden did to the Rockets.

But Carmelo being the most overrated player in the game by leaps and bounds makes this not much of a surprise.
 
2013-05-06 11:41:20 AM
Considering this twat clearly wanted attention by voting for 'Melo, I really don't want to give him the attention he seeks.
 
2013-05-06 11:41:40 AM
I hate the MVP argument that punishes players on good teams. I also hate the argument that punishes players on bad teams. The MVP shouldn't only go to players on mediocre teams.
 
2013-05-06 11:42:40 AM

BunkoSquad: On the Side: Name the last NBA star to win a championship on a team that didn't have a second star.

Isn't that kind of why someone could perceive Melo as valuable this year? Who's he got with him really?

He's a long long way from winning a championship. Plenty of guys have singlehandedly dragged their team into the playoffs, that doesn't make them MVP.

(For the purposes of this discussion, we're granting that a team with Tyson Chandler, Jason Kidd, JR Smith, and occasional cameos from Amare Stoudamire can be dragged singlehandledly anywhere)


There's a regular season MVP and finals MVP... winning a championship has no bearing on regular season MVP, if it did, they would hold it after the finals...
 
2013-05-06 11:42:54 AM
What was NY's winning percentage in the 67 of 82 games Carmelo played
What was NY's winning percetnage in the 15 of 82 games Carmelo didn't play

Serious question.

I know the playoff winning percentage is .500 w/ him and Boston was terrible.
 
2013-05-06 11:43:04 AM

SilentStrider: I still think its hillarious that people actually thought Dan LeBatard was the lone non-LeBron voter.


He was the lone "put Carmelo in first place" voter, at least.
 
2013-05-06 11:45:01 AM

gund: There's a regular season MVP and finals MVP... winning a championship has no bearing on regular season MVP, if it did, they would hold it after the finals...


True, but this thread went and blurred that line rather quickly.

Without Carmelo the Knicks were probably a 6 or 7 seed. To miss the playoffs, one of those wretched collection of teams at the bottom of the East would have had to catch them. I don't see that happening.
 
2013-05-06 11:46:25 AM
If Melo was CLOSE to the player Lebron is, you can use the argument of how valuable he is to the team.  But he's not in the same class as Lebron.. no where near Lebron... no.. no way.
 
2013-05-06 11:48:57 AM

On the Side: MAybe you're not that valuable if you have to go join two other stars to win anything?


what has Carmelo won? the team cancer award?

/ Dumars whiffed on Darko, but he dodged a huge bullet with Carmelo.
 
2013-05-06 11:49:35 AM
And this is  super important because winning unanimously was super important because then it would have been a super important thing.

Do we really have to spend an entire media cycle on this? Playoffs are in full effect in both the NBA and NHL, there are still some NFL Draft Grades to give out, Tim Tebow might go wandering out in western Kansas for 40 days....
 
2013-05-06 11:51:58 AM

Dafatone: You need more than one great player to win (almost all the time.)  MJ had Pippen.  Pippen's better than Wade.


And Horace Grant early (who was an All-Star on occasion) and Dennis Rodman late (who was a HoFer). And the rest of the players were great at their roles and didn't try to do more than their role dictated that they do. That's how championship teams and dynasties are built.

Again, if your front office can't do it for you, why would you just stick around hoping they did? The franchise will be around for a long time; your title window lasts 10 years if you're lucky. So you can't really afford to f*ck around and waste all those years not giving yourself a legitimate title.
 
2013-05-06 11:53:45 AM

IAmRight: Dafatone: You need more than one great player to win (almost all the time.)  MJ had Pippen.  Pippen's better than Wade.

And Horace Grant early (who was an All-Star on occasion) and Dennis Rodman late (who was a HoFer). And the rest of the players were great at their roles and didn't try to do more than their role dictated that they do. That's how championship teams and dynasties are built.

Again, if your front office can't do it for you, why would you just stick around hoping they did? The franchise will be around for a long time; your title window lasts 10 years if you're lucky. So you can't really afford to f*ck around and waste all those years not giving yourself a legitimate title.


But they got Mo Williams!
 
2013-05-06 11:58:55 AM
I'm sure LeBrony is crying in the bathroom once he found out it wasn't unanimous like a girl who just had drunken regret sex with a circus clown and Andy Dick at an Interstate rest stop.
 
2013-05-06 11:59:01 AM

Dafatone: But they got Mo Williams!


I'm not much for the conspiracy theory of LeBron throwing the 2010 playoffs so he could leave, but I think after he averaged 38/8/8 against the Magic and lost in six games in 2009, he had to realize that no, that sh*t wasn't going to happen in Cleveland.
 
rka
2013-05-06 12:05:18 PM

jayhawk88: And this is  super important because winning unanimously was super important because then it would have been a super important thing.

Do we really have to spend an entire media cycle on this? Playoffs are in full effect in both the NBA and NHL, there are still some NFL Draft Grades to give out, Tim Tebow might go wandering out in western Kansas for 40 days....


No shiat. The schizos in these sports threads will spend 51 weeks out of the year whining about how useless such-and-such sport's Hall of Fame is, then for one week they'll treat it like it is some sacrosanct cultural touchstone that everyone much agree upon, unanimously.

And in this case, the right guy *OVERWHELMINGLY* received the award and people are biatching and going on scalp hunts over 1 vote.

This is sad, even for Fark sports threads.
 
2013-05-06 12:16:29 PM

srhp29: srhp29: Dafatone: On the Side: MAybe you're not that valuable if you have to go join two other stars to win anything?

Name the last NBA star to win a championship on a team that didn't have a second star.

The Dallas Mavericks

Sorry...I meant Dirk Nowitski


The Center for the Olympic Team was on that team. Tyson Chandler. Or did you mean media superstars?
 
2013-05-06 12:31:09 PM

The Bestest: This is something that goes on in MVP voting in every sport, because different people have different ideas of what "MVP" actually means.
"How bad would the team suck without him?" is a metric many people use.


We could fix this in five seconds with a set of explicit 'best player' awards if we weren't so married to the MVP acronym.
 
2013-05-06 12:35:38 PM
Gary Washburn successfully accomplished his goal of making u hear the name "Gary Washburn"
 
2013-05-06 12:38:50 PM
You know what is going to happen in 10-15 years from now?  Some fool will vote for Player D instead of Player A and justify it by saying "Well, Jordan never won it 100%, so Player A can't do it either!"

Think it can't happen.. look at the HOF votes for baseball.  Greg freaking Maddux should get 100% of the votes (as should have Seaver, Ripken, Gwynn, etc).  But you get a certain segment of the writers who say "Babe Ruth didn't get 100% of the votes, so no one can!"

That crap is going to happen in the NBA now forever.. no one has ever won a unanimous MVP and since MJ didn't do it (and Magic, Kareem, Elgin, Jerry West, Bill Russell, Basketball Jesus, etc) didn't do it, no one will.
 
2013-05-06 12:41:07 PM

rka: jayhawk88: And this is  super important because winning unanimously was super important because then it would have been a super important thing.

Do we really have to spend an entire media cycle on this? Playoffs are in full effect in both the NBA and NHL, there are still some NFL Draft Grades to give out, Tim Tebow might go wandering out in western Kansas for 40 days....

No shiat. The schizos in these sports threads will spend 51 weeks out of the year whining about how useless such-and-such sport's Hall of Fame is, then for one week they'll treat it like it is some sacrosanct cultural touchstone that everyone much agree upon, unanimously.

And in this case, the right guy *OVERWHELMINGLY* received the award and people are biatching and going on scalp hunts over 1 vote.

This is sad, even for Fark sports threads.


It's almost like a member of the sports media complex would be aware of the fact that the sports media complex would make a huge story out of this, creating fodder for the sports media complex.

It's like that season of The Wire where the reporter helps fake the serial killer story.
 
2013-05-06 12:43:18 PM

rka: No shiat. The schizos in these sports threads will spend 51 weeks out of the year whining about how useless such-and-such sport's Hall of Fame is, then for one week they'll treat it like it is some sacrosanct cultural touchstone that everyone much agree upon, unanimously.


A good way to tell how much a hall of fame truly matters is to watch how often the hometown of the hall is used as a colloquialism (e.g. 'He's going to Cooperstown'), The more it's used, the more it matters.
 
2013-05-06 12:44:59 PM

Gosling: A good way to tell how much a hall of fame truly matters is to watch how often the hometown of the hall is used as a colloquialism (e.g. 'He's going to Cooperstown'), The more it's used, the more it matters.


I think it's a good way to determine how much a sport is focused on the past rather than the present.
 
2013-05-06 12:49:44 PM
FTA--'The NBA has never had a unanimous MVP selection'.

So.....why is this a 'story'?

Can we make the distinction between MVP and Player Of The Year? In ALL sports? Please?
 
2013-05-06 12:54:20 PM
Why, oh why for fark's sake don't they change the name of the award?  Most Valuable Player uses the word "value" which is subject to a large number of different interpretations, including "best", "best value per dollar spent", "best value per position played" and "most important given a team's current salary cap and rotation".

If they said "Most Outstanding Player" then that would get rid of the bullshiat "he meant more to his team" distractions, as well as the "he's good but his team didn't make the playoffs" idiocy.

Say it with me - "M.O.P!  M.O.P!  M.O.P!"
 
2013-05-06 12:55:39 PM

Devo: srhp29: srhp29: Dafatone: On the Side: MAybe you're not that valuable if you have to go join two other stars to win anything?

Name the last NBA star to win a championship on a team that didn't have a second star.

The Dallas Mavericks

Sorry...I meant Dirk Nowitski

The Center for the Olympic Team was on that team. Tyson Chandler. Or did you mean media superstars?


To win an NBA Championship w/o a 2nd superstar (media or otherwise) you need a great supporting cast and a bit of luck. And Dallas had both of them when they won. Jason Kidd is a first ballot hall of fame, Chandler was DPoY in the next year. Marion and Terry would be welcomed as starters on 25 NBA teams. Miami were still trying to figure out how to play, and don't forget their role players had horrible Finals.

Or look at the shiatshow Durant has to go through with Westbrook down. They barely won yesterday at home, struggled against the 8th seed. It will be a minor miracle if Durant is able to get this team to the WCF. Let alone the championship.
 
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