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(Politico)   You know who's really freaking the fark out over immigration reform? Tech companies   (politico.com) divider line 72
    More: Interesting, immigration reform, temporary visas  
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2618 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 May 2013 at 8:47 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-06 08:22:37 AM
Why do I get offers for an H!-B visa to work in the US until they find out I don't need one?
 
2013-05-06 08:27:01 AM
They aren't starve for tech talent, they are starved for cheap tech talent.
 
2013-05-06 08:30:20 AM

EvilEgg: They aren't starve for tech talent, they are starved for cheap tech talent.


Bing! Winner
 
2013-05-06 08:35:12 AM

EvilEgg: They aren't starve for tech talent, they are starved for cheap tech talent.


Don't you remember a time in the 80s and 90s where tech companies would pay great wages with benefits for tech talent? Whatever happened to that?

/winner is you
 
2013-05-06 08:47:02 AM
But new restrictions on the programs, designed to ensure companies make an effort to hire American workers first, have the tech industry feverishly working to change provisions of the legislation

It's hard to depress American workers wages if you don't have at least several millions H1-Bs that you can pay cents on the dollar.
 
2013-05-06 08:54:44 AM
Because god forbid they have to hire people who DON'T have the threat of deportation looming over their heads. (Want a raise? Mmmm, you know if we fire you, you have to leave the US, riiiigghhhttt?)

fark these guys.
 
2013-05-06 08:56:54 AM

EvilEgg: They aren't starve for tech talent, they are starved for cheap tech talent.


I love hearing about how "starved" tech companies are for talent (my company included).  I was a technical trainer about 12 years ago, right in the dot com bust.  I'd travel to different companies, get them up to speed on new stuff coming out, get them certified, whatever.  One thread remained constant:  the shops with majority non-American programmers paid very poorly.  We're talking $19-25K per year in 2001, when average wage was probably $50K+ at other places.  It always struck me how indifferent they were about it.  These guys didn't know or didn't care they were getting paid so little.

/you get what you pay for.
 
2013-05-06 08:57:52 AM
When my husband graduated and got his first tech job in 1995, HP rented Great America for the company picnic, and rented a snow machine for the Christmas party.  Five years later they were yelling at people about office supplies.
 
MFK
2013-05-06 09:11:00 AM
So corporations who are biatching about paying taxes which pay for educating the US population are lobbying to be able to hire foreigners because they're the only ones who are educated well enough to perform high tech jobs?

Are you farking kidding me?
 
2013-05-06 09:11:54 AM

EvilEgg: They aren't starve for tech talent, they are starved for cheap tech talent.


Glad to see we got this covered.
 
2013-05-06 09:11:56 AM
They want talent, but don't want to pay for it. There are plenty of graduates with skills. H1Bs are not necessary to the degree that they've been implemented. It's not like the entire graduation class at MIT, Cal Tech, and VT are foreigners. Sure, there are some, but not THAT much more than other schools.
 
2013-05-06 09:13:51 AM

MFK: foreigners because they're the only ones who are educated well enough to perform high tech jobs for less than minimum wage?


Just thought I'd fix that.
 
2013-05-06 09:20:02 AM
If they didn't have so many H1-B visas, they might have to resort to hiring engineers and programmers over the age of 40.
 
2013-05-06 09:21:00 AM
As an IT Professional, I am continually exhausted by companies that hold their IT talent in the same regard as their interns. (No offense to interns)

We are highly skilled, highly capable, valuable assets that make your job possible several hundreds times over, every single day.
 
2013-05-06 09:21:18 AM
This is what a free market gets you folks.
 
2013-05-06 09:26:22 AM
Instead of offshoring work, we should import workers who pay taxes and live here.
 
2013-05-06 09:28:21 AM

Epoch_Zero: As an IT Professional, I am continually exhausted by companies that hold their IT talent in the same regard as their interns. (No offense to interns)

We are highly skilled, highly capable, valuable assets that make your job possible several hundreds times over, every single day.


But we can six sigma your job so hard that we can outsource it overseas. Plus we have Gartner papers that tell us the best practices for setting up our procedures.
 
2013-05-06 09:29:00 AM
Done in two.  I do not think I can add anything more of value to this thread.
 
2013-05-06 09:32:42 AM
On the other hand, it's an adventure to go to exotic restaurants on trips to the big city to buy regular food items for fellow workers, you know, the ones who roll their eyes at pizza every other day.  (Restaurants will tell you when the specialty grocery stores and pet adoption agencies are.)
 
2013-05-06 09:32:49 AM

Frozboz: EvilEgg: They aren't starve for tech talent, they are starved for cheap tech talent.

I love hearing about how "starved" tech companies are for talent (my company included).  I was a technical trainer about 12 years ago, right in the dot com bust.  I'd travel to different companies, get them up to speed on new stuff coming out, get them certified, whatever.  One thread remained constant:  the shops with majority non-American programmers paid very poorly.  We're talking $19-25K per year in 2001, when average wage was probably $50K+ at other places.  It always struck me how indifferent they were about it.  These guys didn't know or didn't care they were getting paid so little.

/you get what you pay for.


When I lived in LA ten years ago, I played in an ex-pat cricket league with a bunch of guys from Hyderabad, India.  I knew most of them were programmers or in other techie roles.  Before one game I agreed to pick three of them up to drive them out to Riverside.  I was surprised to find that the three of them were sharing one apartment in a not-so-great neighborhood in Little India, because they couldn't afford a better place.  One of them shrugged when I saw their place and said, "Well, we could be back in Hyderabad."
 
2013-05-06 09:41:32 AM
EVERY American company loves that sweet brown labor that they can import over here on the cheap.   they call it Freedom.

and the Stockholders approve.   sure beats working for a living.
 
2013-05-06 09:42:39 AM

The Third Man: Frozboz: EvilEgg: They aren't starve for tech talent, they are starved for cheap tech talent.

I love hearing about how "starved" tech companies are for talent (my company included).  I was a technical trainer about 12 years ago, right in the dot com bust.  I'd travel to different companies, get them up to speed on new stuff coming out, get them certified, whatever.  One thread remained constant:  the shops with majority non-American programmers paid very poorly.  We're talking $19-25K per year in 2001, when average wage was probably $50K+ at other places.  It always struck me how indifferent they were about it.  These guys didn't know or didn't care they were getting paid so little.

/you get what you pay for.

When I lived in LA ten years ago, I played in an ex-pat cricket league with a bunch of guys from Hyderabad, India.  I knew most of them were programmers or in other techie roles.  Before one game I agreed to pick three of them up to drive them out to Riverside.  I was surprised to find that the three of them were sharing one apartment in a not-so-great neighborhood in Little India, because they couldn't afford a better place.  One of them shrugged when I saw their place and said, "Well, we could be back in Hyderabad."


hyperbad what a name for a city

gaygamer.net
 
2013-05-06 09:42:54 AM

EvilEgg: They aren't starve for tech talent, they are starved for cheap tech talent.



BINGO!!   you get the prize.   now you know the truth about America and who owns it.  and it certainly has nothing to do with Democracy.
 
2013-05-06 09:44:15 AM

somedude210: EvilEgg: They aren't starve for tech talent, they are starved for cheap tech talent.

Don't you remember a time in the 80s and 90s where tech companies would pay great wages with benefits for tech talent? Whatever happened to that?

/winner is you



why should they pay you, American, when they can ship a communist chinaman over here.  he'll do it for cheap!
 
2013-05-06 09:45:08 AM

somedude210: EvilEgg: They aren't starve for tech talent, they are starved for cheap tech talent.

Don't you remember a time in the 80s and 90s where tech companies would pay great wages with benefits for tech talent? Whatever happened to that?

/winner is you


lh3.ggpht.com
 
2013-05-06 09:45:35 AM
Under a Capitalist System, Man exploits Man.
under a Communist one, its just the opposite.


--American Economist John Kenneth Galbraith.
 
2013-05-06 09:47:02 AM

Frozboz: EvilEgg: They aren't starve for tech talent, they are starved for cheap tech talent.

I love hearing about how "starved" tech companies are for talent (my company included).  I was a technical trainer about 12 years ago, right in the dot com bust.  I'd travel to different companies, get them up to speed on new stuff coming out, get them certified, whatever.  One thread remained constant:  the shops with majority non-American programmers paid very poorly.  We're talking $19-25K per year in 2001, when average wage was probably $50K+ at other places.  It always struck me how indifferent they were about it.  These guys didn't know or didn't care they were getting paid so little.

/you get what you pay for.



they had No Choice.  they're over here on work vistas.  if they open their mouths, they get sent up unemployed.   aint' Freedom great!!

America #1!!!
 
2013-05-06 09:48:29 AM

Wendolyn the Wired: When my husband graduated and got his first tech job in 1995, HP rented Great America for the company picnic, and rented a snow machine for the Christmas party.  Five years later they were yelling at people about office supplies.



that is because they're sharholders weren't getting enough free money.   they like free money.  beats working for a  living.
 
2013-05-06 09:48:56 AM
Imported sex workers have it so much better.
 
2013-05-06 09:49:06 AM
Seeing how expensive CEO pay is, it would be more cost effective to get some H1-Bs in upper management.
 
2013-05-06 09:50:02 AM

MFK: So corporations who are biatching about paying taxes which pay for educating the US population are lobbying to be able to hire foreigners because they're the only ones who are educated well enough to perform high tech jobs?

Are you farking kidding me?



no, they're not.  its just a reminder of who Owns this Nation and its Government.   ain't Freedom great!
 
2013-05-06 09:52:35 AM

lilbjorn: If they didn't have so many H1-B visas, they might have to resort to hiring engineers and programmers over the age of 40.



wouldn't that be horrific.  and those over 40 would be paying U.S. taxes too. they wouldn't be using those unempolyment benefits that FOXhole News always whines about. they'd be spending their money here instead of sending to their families overseas.

Freedom: you gotta' protect it!
 
2013-05-06 10:00:16 AM

Epoch_Zero: As an IT Professional, I am continually exhausted by companies that hold their IT talent in the same regard as their interns. (No offense to interns)

We are highly skilled, highly capable, valuable assets that make your job possible several hundreds times over, every single day.


IT is generally considered a cost to a non-tech company and is only visible when it fails.
 
2013-05-06 10:08:12 AM

Glicky: Epoch_Zero: As an IT Professional, I am continually exhausted by companies that hold their IT talent in the same regard as their interns. (No offense to interns)

We are highly skilled, highly capable, valuable assets that make your job possible several hundreds times over, every single day.

IT is generally considered a cost to a non-tech company and is only visible when it fails.


Hence the allowing you to do your jobs every single day.
 
2013-05-06 10:10:37 AM

impaler: Seeing how expensive CEO pay is, it would be more cost effective to get some H1-Bs in upper management.


Hey now, let's not go crazy. I mean Junior worked really hard to get his degree in business management and so he's clearly qualified for the no. 2 spot in Daddy's firm.
 
2013-05-06 10:16:59 AM
CSB:

In March I interviewed at a very large San Diego based tech firm for an engineering position. All of the candidates being interviewed that day, across the entire company, met at an HR desk at the same time to sign in and begin the interview process. Everyone was required to state US citizen status or country if they were a foreign national, so that we could be badged appropriately. Of the 15 or so people there, two, myself included, were US citizens, the rest were of primarily Indian nationality.

/CSB
 
2013-05-06 10:34:37 AM
Wait, I thought Apple was into electronics rather than, you know, apples.
 
2013-05-06 10:35:54 AM
Of course they are freaking out. Half the "tech companies" out there are just an H1B railroad.

/formerly IT at a global bank
//twitch in fury every time I hear "do the needful"
 
2013-05-06 10:55:03 AM

EvilEgg: They aren't starve for tech talent, they are starved for cheap tech talent.


Yeah, and paying them less results in lowered expectations, complacency and inertia. Even if you suck at your job, it doesn't matter.
 
2013-05-06 11:07:49 AM
As a small-government conservative, I am angry at the government for not propping up inflated wages by restricting competition within the labour market. The government must do something to protect entitled American college students who expect a 6-figure salary as soon as they graduate. How dare people offer their work for a lower cost than a raging nerd deems appropriate!
 
2013-05-06 11:27:09 AM

mister aj: As a small-government conservative, I am angry at the government for not propping up inflated wages by restricting competition within the labour market. The government must do something to protect entitled American college students who expect a 6-figure salary as soon as they graduate. How dare people offer their work for a lower cost than a raging nerd deems appropriate!


0/10
 
2013-05-06 12:19:25 PM

ChaoticLimbs: They want talent, but don't want to pay for it. There are plenty of graduates with skills. H1Bs are not necessary to the degree that they've been implemented. It's not like the entire graduation class at MIT, Cal Tech, and VT are foreigners. Sure, there are some, but not THAT much more than other schools.


I can say with certainty that at least 60%, if not more, of the VT Physics Grad students are american citizens. (And at least a small chunk of the non-natives go back home to teach in their country. Which makes it REALLY fun to get ahold of them when you're trying to continue their work!)

mister aj: As a small-government conservative, I am angry at the government for not propping up inflated wages by restricting competition within the labour market. The government must do something to protect entitled American college students who expect a 6-figure salary as soon as they graduate. How dare people offer their work for a lower cost than a raging nerd deems appropriate!


No, it's more that H1-B holders allow companies to keep the price aritificially low.

See, the H1B visas are also incumbent upon *holding a job* in America. This gives the company an advantadge/leverage over the H1-B holder that they *Don't have* over their normal employees: If they fire an H1B worker (or the H1B worker quits), the H1B worker may very well have to travel back to their home country. This creates a lopsided-ness in the balance of power, and allows them to artificially depress wages via veiled/implied threat of deportation, something an American Citizen doesn't need to worry about.
Such a relatioship is actually somewhat antithetical to a free market. If you want it to really be free market, just grant the H1B holder citizenship. Even if they get fired from the company.

In short, you are wrong.
 
2013-05-06 12:24:54 PM

Linux_Yes: they had No Choice. they're over here on work vistas. if they open their mouths, they get sent up unemployed. aint' Freedom great!!


You know, I really do get tired of you bashing Microsoft.
/Har Har
 
2013-05-06 12:52:01 PM
looks like Fark sees the problem clearly. but there's no surprise in that is there?
 
2013-05-06 12:52:18 PM
And after loading the important infrastructure with half wit Indians/Pakistani H-1Bs, people are shocked when it falls apart in 3-5 years.

/The MBA mindset is a cancer on business
 
2013-05-06 12:55:25 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: mister aj: As a small-government conservative, I am angry at the government for not propping up inflated wages by restricting competition within the labour market. The government must do something to protect entitled American college students who expect a 6-figure salary as soon as they graduate. How dare people offer their work for a lower cost than a raging nerd deems appropriate!

0/10


So truth hurts then?

The point is valid. Globalization is here whether we like it or not, and sice we were at the top our move to the new average is likely down in some areas, and this is an example.

Not saying there isn't some manipulation or that we should ignore it, but the underlying point remains valid.

And globalization isn't done yet so prepare yourselves..
 
2013-05-06 12:56:40 PM
FTA:

"the bill requires an employer to attest that it tried to recruit and offer a job to a U.S. citizen before giving it to a foreign national needing a temporary work visa."

later:

"They don't want to have to offer jobs to U.S. workers who are equally or better qualified than H-1B workers"

So I haven't read the bill, so perhaps the latter is referencing something I haven't seen, but the former description doesn't say anything about offering jobs to "equally or better qualified" workers.

Is that just AFL-CIO jingoism or does it actually say something about that in the bill?
 
2013-05-06 01:01:45 PM
Snarcoleptic_Hoosier

And after loading the important infrastructure with half wit Indians/Pakistani H-1Bs, people are shocked when it falls apart in 3-5 years.

/The MBA mindset is a cancer on business


Well at least it hasn't made you racist.
 
2013-05-06 01:10:15 PM

Marcus Aurelius: But new restrictions on the programs, designed to ensure companies make an effort to hire American workers first, have the tech industry feverishly working to change provisions of the legislation


I was under the impression that this was ALREADY a requirement. Any immigration attorneys in here today?
 
2013-05-06 01:41:03 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Marcus Aurelius: But new restrictions on the programs, designed to ensure companies make an effort to hire American workers first, have the tech industry feverishly working to change provisions of the legislation

I was under the impression that this was ALREADY a requirement. Any immigration attorneys in here today?


I am not an immigration attorney, but I occasionally interact with them when I'm involved in hiring decisions. It is a requirement, but it's not a particularly problematic one. We don't care about national origin, we just care about value for money, so we advertise for wages that most local tech workers (i.e. primadonnas) are too up their own asses to take. We've made an effort to hire local workers, many of them prefer unemployment, so then we hire via immigration and cut costs.
 
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