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(New York Daily News)   If 3D plastic guns are outlawed, only 3D plastic criminals will have them   (nydailynews.com) divider line 360
    More: Asinine, Chuck Schumer, Defense Distributed, Liberator, Security checkpoint, plastic guns  
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8296 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 May 2013 at 5:47 PM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-05 09:27:18 PM
Lol they should just outlaw SCIENCE and TECHNOLOGY if they fear everything is only meant to destroy mankind!

Do they even know how fragile those 3D printed things are and how expensive it is to create something big and full of volume? Do they know that creating a 5 inch item already costs way too much than its worth? Ever bought a $30 one inch miniature of a cube?

What are 3D criminals going to do? Make weapons using ceramics and cheap plastic because using metal is too damn expensive?

What the hell, just outlaw pens as well! Pens can easily be used to stab eyes out! I've even heard of weapons being made out of toilet paper tubes, let's outlaw those as well! Oh crap, humans are naturally evil, let's all just commit a species suicide so as not to endanger each other anymore!
 
2013-05-05 09:33:12 PM

Lsherm: Great Janitor: The firing pin is metal not to comply with federal law, but so it would work.  The firing pin is what hits the bullet causing the explosion to propel the bullet.  I am not sure how you could build one out of plastic and expect it to work.

Firing pins aren't very big.  Get a hard enough piece of plastic and there's no reason it shouldn't work.


Looking at how bullets are assembled, you probably wouldn't need a metal firing pin to get one to fire.  The job of the firing pin is to get the bullet to fire.  The bullet is a bomb, the gun just controls the explosion.  Using a plastic fire pin would mean that you'd get one shot out of it before it melted.  A melted plastic firing pin could jam the gun.

In short, a plastic firing pin would be as useful as plastic brake pads for a F1 racecar.
 
2013-05-05 09:36:34 PM

jayphat: utah dude: jayphat: utah dude: jayphat: utah dude: PaLarkin: A plastic gun used for an assassination only needs to be fired once or twice.  Since it's made of plastic it can easily be burned or melted beyond recognition.

a remington 700 in .308 with a leupould scope will run you about 1400 and will give you time to leave the grassy knoll.

That's one helluva markup. I could get the same setup at Walmart for $800 easy.

not with those optics you won't

A $600 rifle and $200 scope?

i was thinking about 700 for both, brah.

That's what I was originally. Where is this guy getting 1400?


Leupold scopes are horribly overpriced.

Your average Remington 700 in .308 will run you around $700.  A really, really low-end Leupold scope will run you $400, but the ones you'd be likely to use in this setup are in the $1400-2200 range--and that's just for the scope.  The original $1400 price was probably for a well-used setup from a pawn shop desperate for a sale.

As soon as we decide that radio, television and the internet aren't afforded First Amendment protection because the 'technology didn't exist back then', then maybe I'll give a rat's ass about the idiots trying to limit the Second Amendment.
 
2013-05-05 09:42:13 PM

redsquid: [farm5.staticflickr.com image 240x180]

[s3files.core77.com image 468x597]

The above items were produced with consumer level 3D printers. Look at how rough and imperfect the surface is. This technology will not produce the tolerances necessary for a working gun. This isn't even considering the weakness of the thermoplastic used in the lower end 3D printers. Fear exists in the absence of knowledge.


I have made those points in these threads before. Its pointless. All the anti-gun folks know is that there is technology that theoretically someday could be used to make 3d printed guns...so that means by tuesday evening every kid in America will be 3d printing guns.

We both know that the first person to build and fire one will lose several fingers, maybe their whole hand, when the thing detonates under the breach pressure of the round. Sadly the anti-gun controlled media will make sure the story does hit the mainstream news.
 
2013-05-05 09:43:32 PM

Rincewind53: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think).


I'm old enough to remember the whole sky-is-falling panic when the rumors about "undetectable plastic" Glocks were about to come out.

Not to say that automatically invalidates any concerns about 3D-printed guns, but there is an element of "Boy Who Cried Wolf" to this story.
 
2013-05-05 09:48:09 PM
Interesting that this wiget is getting all the commotion... juast ahows lefties dont know squat about guns. This is 19th cent tech. here people. A good metal press is what... $200 used? Id bet there isnt a vo-tech machine shop class in this country that hasent turned out a few recievers during lunch.
 
2013-05-05 09:51:14 PM

Sultan Of Herf: redsquid: [farm5.staticflickr.com image 240x180]

[s3files.core77.com image 468x597]

The above items were produced with consumer level 3D printers. Look at how rough and imperfect the surface is. This technology will not produce the tolerances necessary for a working gun. This isn't even considering the weakness of the thermoplastic used in the lower end 3D printers. Fear exists in the absence of knowledge.

I have made those points in these threads before. Its pointless. All the anti-gun folks know is that there is technology that theoretically someday could be used to make 3d printed guns...so that means by tuesday evening every kid in America will be 3d printing guns.

We both know that the first person to build and fire one will lose several fingers, maybe their whole hand, when the thing detonates under the breach pressure of the round. Sadly the anti-gun controlled media will make sure the story does hit the mainstream news.


I can't wait to hear about the first jackass who builds an M-16 out of materials printed off a 3D printer, goes to fire it and it literally explodes in his face.
 
2013-05-05 09:51:59 PM

Southern100: Great Janitor: If you honestly believe that guns made of plastic are just as functional as ones manufactured by Glock out of steel, then you might as well tell the American public to hide in their refrigerators in the event of nuclear attack or in the event of alien invasion, writing a computer virus on an Apple laptop will save us all.

I don't think anyone in this thread is saying they're JUST as functional. They're single shot, for crying out loud - but functional for 2, 3, maybe even 4 shots? They're already done that. They're planning on releasing the video for the test firing on Monday.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/05/05/meet-the-libera to r-test-firing-the-worlds-first-fully-3d-printed-gun/

Couple of interesting points:

"Despite the explosion that just occurred inside of it, both the barrel and the body of the gun seem entirely unscathed. The verdict: it worked. The Liberator fired a standard .380 handgun round without visible damage"

"Wilson switched out the Liberator's barrel for a higher-charge 5.7×28 rifle cartridge. He and John retreated to a safe distance, and John pulled his yellow string again. This time the gun exploded,"

So no, I don't think you or I would currently want to test fire one outselves.. But this IS only version 1.0 :)


Interesting read. As an aside, though, 5.7x28 is not a rifle cartridge. It's a handgun round.
 
2013-05-05 09:54:00 PM

lewismarktwo: Imagine if instead of wanting to keep people from printing 'untraceable' 'undetectable' guns we might concentrate on wanting to keep people from wanting to use 'untraceable' 'undetectable' guns.

Also, no religion too.


I say that you're a dreamer.
 
2013-05-05 09:56:59 PM

part of the problem: Interesting that this wiget is getting all the commotion... juast ahows lefties dont know squat about guns.


Sure, look at all the righies mentioning the gun's historic namesake

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-05-05 10:06:14 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Antivirus companies can play their game in this market and make some money.  Add software to 3D printers that checks each file against a signature database and rejects files that print guns.  Charge subscription fees for updates.  Same business model they follow now.  Make it mandatory for all 3D printers and buyers.

Of course signature-based protection isn't complete.  For an additional fee, we can give you behavioral and heuristic real-time protection against uncatalogued "threats."  Anything that might be a gun part will be rejected.


Don't 2D printers already have recognition software inside them that prevent them for copying money?
 
2013-05-05 10:08:00 PM
Chucky Schumer is an idiot and a liar. This is as much of a threat as a gun carved out of oak. It might fire, once. He's also an idiot for thinking he can craft a law that would stop this developing technology.
 
2013-05-05 10:13:54 PM

Rincewind53: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think).


You might make a plastic gun that is invisible to metal detectors but what are they gonna fire? Bullets are made from metal and a single bullet WILL set off a detector. Use plastic bullets? The metal casing will set off the detector. Use pastic everything? Good luck firing that thing. You basicly have a mini hand shredding pipe bomb that won't hurt much besides your ability to open ketchup bottles.
You'd have better luck just making a PVC pipe bomb.
 
2013-05-05 10:14:05 PM

Harry_Seldon: This guy is nothing more than an attention whore...

[www.tailgatingideas.com image 254x300]


Who is she and where does she live so I can stalk her.
 
2013-05-05 10:17:27 PM

Smidge204: redsquid: Even if the plastic was strong enough to handle the forces (it isn't)

It is.

redsquid: that still wouldn't be smooth enough to create a good enough seal to achieve decent muzzle velocity.

Depends on what you're trying to accomplish. I agree that nobody will be printing sniper or large caliber hunting rifles any time soon, but people have been making serviceable firearms out of common household items since practically the invention of firearms.

That said, I think these guys trying to grab all this media attention about printed guns need a beatdown. A**holes ruining it for everyone, IMHO. This is why we can't have nice things.

Nice job moving that goalpost, BTW.
=Smidge=



Show me a consumer level 3D printer that can print a usable gun. Do it. Where's the video? I've been following this for a long time and it's just not possible. I'm not trying to get in a pissing match with you and if you can provide some reference to your claims go for it. I'm not talking about industrial equipment, consumer level printers.
 
2013-05-05 10:24:08 PM
What a plastic gun that is invisble to metal detectors looks like
www.aarannews.com
/according to the 1980's
 
2013-05-05 10:31:03 PM

MythDragon: Rincewind53: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think).

You might make a plastic gun that is invisible to metal detectors but what are they gonna fire? Bullets are made from metal and a single bullet WILL set off a detector. Use plastic bullets? The metal casing will set off the detector. Use pastic everything? Good luck firing that thing. You basicly have a mini hand shredding pipe bomb that won't hurt much besides your ability to open ketchup bottles.
You'd have better luck just making a PVC pipe bomb.

Bullets don't HAVE to be made of brass, look up caseless ammo. They are made of plastic and or ceramic, the actual projectiles don't even have to be made of a metal. Glass can withstand the forces.

So yes, it would be possible to sneak ammunition through security. It would be very expensive and would have to be custom made unless someone had a G11 or LSAT laying around.
 
2013-05-05 10:34:22 PM

ciberido: BarkingUnicorn: Antivirus companies can play their game in this market and make some money.  Add software to 3D printers that checks each file against a signature database and rejects files that print guns.  Charge subscription fees for updates.  Same business model they follow now.  Make it mandatory for all 3D printers and buyers.

Of course signature-based protection isn't complete.  For an additional fee, we can give you behavioral and heuristic real-time protection against uncatalogued "threats."  Anything that might be a gun part will be rejected.

Don't 2D printers already have recognition software inside them that prevent them for copying money?


Yes, if it's newer currency with certain anti-counterfeiting features.  In the U. S., I think printers, copiers, scanners, and currency have conspired since 2005.
 
2013-05-05 10:38:34 PM
You can make one without a 3d printer.
ckmaccom.startlogic.com
 
2013-05-05 10:38:45 PM
MythDragon: What a plastic porcelain gun that is invisble to metal detectors looks like
[www.aarannews.com image 600x453]
/according to the 1980's

Ah, the infamous Glock 7.
FTFY
 
2013-05-05 10:39:01 PM
Wait till you can print food just by adding raw materials and energy.

When you don't need them anymore.
 
2013-05-05 10:39:55 PM
FYI  bullet= made of lead and what exits the gun in a rapid manner
Cartridge= holds powder, bullet, primer and is ejected after being fired.
BULLET/=Cartridge

/stick a bullet in a gun and pull the trigger, nothing will happen. Now try a cartridge.
 
2013-05-05 10:43:25 PM

GUTSU: It would be very expensive


Never played with black powder pistols,have you?
and lets make it in oh, how about marble caliber.
 
2013-05-05 10:46:00 PM

Rivetman1.0: GUTSU: It would be very expensive

Never played with black powder pistols,have you?
and lets make it in oh, how about marble caliber.


That would work, I guess I was over-thinking it.
 
2013-05-05 10:55:17 PM
Everybody panic.... people with the right skills and specialized tools can make their own guns!

It's been this way for centuries. It's never been a problem.

People with valuable skills and tools usually aren't criminals. Why? Because the risk/reward ratio is better for them not to be criminals.

BTW, that FDM gun isn't durable. Six shots at the outside and parts will need replacement. Small thin parts don't last long made by the FDM process.
 
2013-05-05 10:55:46 PM

Lt_Ryan: Just wait until someone finds out you can buy a CNC mill and steel online and starts making guns out of (gasp) metal. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the plans for just the part of the receiver that is legally classified as a gun, all the other parts are basically what you can buy online or in any store.


Or, even worse, a C&C factory.
 
2013-05-05 11:05:42 PM

redmid17: Vlad_the_Inaner: vadum: I have never worked for the TSA, but unless they are using plastic bullets, I think they can still detect them.

I have invented this very hard but non-metallic material.

I think I'll call it....'glass'

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 160x160]

Sweet let me know when you figure out a way to propel it at high velocity without gun powder.


I'd say you'd have better luck with some modern version of a gyrojet.
 
2013-05-05 11:08:03 PM

Draskuul: A really, really low-end Leupold scope will run you $400, but the ones you'd be likely to use in this setup are in the $1400-2200 range--and that's just for the scope.  The original $1400 price was probably for a well-used setup from a pawn shop desperate for a sale.


Not necessarily.  A nice VX-III in the 6 to 20 power range will fetch about 700 to 900 depending upon the features.  if you want to bump up to the Mark 4 or higher tactical optics you will find yourself in the price you are at.

Leupolds are a little spendy, but the gold rings are still made here in the US.
 
2013-05-05 11:09:13 PM

loonatic112358: mike_the_engineer: loonatic112358: You make the plastic thick enough you could get off a shot, I'm not sure the the gun in question has thick enough plastic

I think the best case scenario would be a one-time-use .22 with a 50/50 chance of exploding in your hand.  And since the plastic is so flexible, the muzzle velocity would be significantly reduced.  I'd be surprised if it penetrated clothing.

as I said upthread, I'd only fire one from behind a blast shield


But with theblast shield down, I can't even see!
 
2013-05-05 11:11:48 PM

loonatic112358: radarlove: I think it's great that y'all know so much about guns, but it looks like none of you really know much about plastics.

Some of them can take a lot of punishment, which is why we make bulletproof windows and helmets out of certain kinds.

Bulletproof glass is typically layers of glass and plastics, not just plastic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet_proof_glass

helmets can crack from impact, between the exterior hard plastic and the interior foam your head usually won't


I actually broke a helmet that way.  I was riding a bicycle downhill at a pretty good speed and hit a pothole.  Landed on my head.  Broke the helmet but didn't suffer any head injury.
 
2013-05-05 11:16:03 PM

paleryder69: Never underestimate the ingenuity of a human being, why not use glass projectiles and a compressed gas propellant? Think paintball gun, but much higher pressures. No cartridge, no explosion, repeat fire and can be made entirely out of plastic with NO metal parts.

/would be totally legal too
//10 watt laser would be deadly as well


If you use phased plasma, something in the 40 watt range should be sufficient.
 
2013-05-05 11:19:08 PM
You can make zip guns out of pvc pipe and even rolled up magazines (newspaper doesn't work) depending on the caliber projectile.

You don't need to spend money on a 3d printer to make an undetectable firearm.....the zip gun made out of a magazine is old school convict tech.

Didn't Shumer and his ilk kvetch about "undetectable plastic Glocks" when they became popular in the states?
 
2013-05-05 11:19:22 PM

jaybeezey: serial_crusher: Impossible to detect?  I thought stuff like this was why they moved airports to backscatter machines instead of metal detectors?

Until someone makes a lethal bullet that isn't made of some kind metal, it's less of an issue than you might think.


Didn't I see a CSI one time where a guy made an ice bullet?  If it happened on CSI it's real, right?
I'm sure 3D printable bullets are somewhere on these guys' todo list.
 
2013-05-05 11:19:24 PM

Southern100: Do you really think it would be difficult to get something as small as a AAA battery through (or around) a metal detector? Heck, you could probably even put it inside a AAA battery and throw it in your camera.


What I think is really really funny is metal detectors can be spoofed with active counter measures.
 
2013-05-05 11:25:59 PM

serial_crusher: jaybeezey: serial_crusher: Impossible to detect?  I thought stuff like this was why they moved airports to backscatter machines instead of metal detectors?

Until someone makes a lethal bullet that isn't made of some kind metal, it's less of an issue than you might think.

Didn't I see a CSI one time where a guy made an ice bullet?  If it happened on CSI it's real, right?
I'm sure 3D printable bullets are somewhere on these guys' todo list.


Mythbusters busted ice bullets twice,  But I think I saw a hot melt glue bullet on youtube, about as 3d printer friendly at anything
 
2013-05-05 11:26:05 PM

calbert: this is clearly what the founding fathers were thinking of when they drafted the 2nd Amendment.


Well yes actually. It probably is.

If there was a way that people could make their own firearms I'm sure they would applaud it. They knew how expensive it was to purchase frearms from manufacturers for able bodied men to use.

They may have even seen to put in place a way for the people to run what they brung if ever the need arises.
 
2013-05-05 11:26:23 PM

serial_crusher: Didn't I see a CSI one time where a guy made an ice bullet? If it happened on CSI it's real, right?
I'm sure 3D printable bullets are somewhere on these guys' todo list.

 
2013-05-05 11:27:08 PM
serial_crusher: Didn't I see a CSI one time where a guy made an ice bullet? If it happened on CSI it's real, right?
I'm sure 3D printable bullets are somewhere on these guys' todo list.

collateraldamage.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-05-05 11:28:35 PM

redsquid: Even if the plastic was strong enough to handle the forces (it isn't), that still wouldn't be smooth enough to create a good enough seal to achieve decent muzzle velocity. It's a non-issue and it will be for quite some time.


You don't really need a good seal to get a high velocity if you are using a big, heavy bullet.

Plenty of people have been killed over the centuries by large chunks of lead flying at subsonic velocities.
 
2013-05-05 11:36:20 PM

Great Janitor: vygramul: thenumber5: Thunderboy: thenumber5:  good thing there "Plastic Gun" has the metal barrel

No, it doesn't.

yet it does, you can see it in the pics

It does not. The only metal parts are the firing pin and a steel slug to make it detectable and comply with federal law.

The firing pin is metal not to comply with federal law, but so it would work.  The firing pin is what hits the bullet causing the explosion to propel the bullet.  I am not sure how you could build one out of plastic and expect it to work.


You could make one out of plastic with a small metal tip.  That should be good enough.

Of course, I think the better way is to make it a muzzleloader.  Then you only need the nipple to be made out of metal, and perhaps not even that.  Black powder is lower pressure than smokeless, so it would be less likely to become a bomb in you hand.  Also, you wouldn't need that chunk of steel in it because under federal law, muzzleloaders aren't "firearms".  It would be completely legal to make it undetectable.
 
2013-05-05 11:39:50 PM

dittybopper: redsquid: Even if the plastic was strong enough to handle the forces (it isn't), that still wouldn't be smooth enough to create a good enough seal to achieve decent muzzle velocity. It's a non-issue and it will be for quite some time.

You don't really need a good seal to get a high velocity if you are using a big, heavy bullet.

Plenty of people have been killed over the centuries by large chunks of lead flying at subsonic velocities.


Sometimes slow enough that you could see it but fast enough that you couldn't do anything about it.
 
2013-05-06 12:02:13 AM

serial_crusher: jaybeezey: serial_crusher: Impossible to detect?  I thought stuff like this was why they moved airports to backscatter machines instead of metal detectors?

Until someone makes a lethal bullet that isn't made of some kind metal, it's less of an issue than you might think.

Didn't I see a CSI one time where a guy made an ice bullet?  If it happened on CSI it's real, right?
I'm sure 3D printable bullets are somewhere on these guys' todo list.


Trying to make non-detectable bullets is a stupid waste of effort.  The key is to make a gun that can shoot a projectile that, even if it gets detected, the authorities ignore.  I recall reading about a gun that fired coins (only worked at short ranges, obviously), and there are plenty of bullet shaped things that could be short for longer ranges.  Lipstick comes to mind.  Alternatively, as has already been mentioned, you can just put the bullet in something with a similar shape that authorities will wave right through even after detection.

Same with the gun.  A gun is made up of several shapes that, disassembled, are not suspicious (pretty much just a bunch of rectangles.  Disguise them as/in laptop batteries, calculators, cameras...any number of things that, even when detected won't get a second look, and there you go.

So why bother with plastic stealth crap?  People over-think this shiat.
 
2013-05-06 12:06:50 AM

Giltric: Sometimes slow enough that you could see it but fast enough that you couldn't do anything about it.


If the light's right, you can see .45 ammo flying downrange.
 
2013-05-06 12:07:40 AM

Vlad_the_Inaner: part of the problem: Interesting that this wiget is getting all the commotion... juast ahows lefties dont know squat about guns.

Sure, look at all the righies mentioning the gun's historic namesake

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x249]


The gun that took longer to reload than it did to make?
Seemed so obvious that its hardly worth mentioning.

The Liberator was more of a PR implement than actual, useful, firearm.  Its unlikely to have been involved with many german deaths.

/and its 3d printed successor holds true to the originals values.
/Altho it probably takes a while longer to make one, its purpose is to rustle jimmies more than to be lethal.
/Defcad wants to set precedent while 3d printing is in its infancy and politicians look the most foolish.
 
2013-05-06 12:14:36 AM

way south: The gun that took longer to reload than it did to make?
Seemed so obvious that its hardly worth mentioning.


Wow.

You didn't know, (or couldn't guess),  the whole point of that gun was to use it to kill an enemy soldier, and take that guys weapon?

wow... just wow.
 
2013-05-06 12:40:22 AM

Southern100: But for someone to take on an airplane? Absolutely possible. Is there anything the government can really do to stop it? Nope.


not to pick on you but so far no one has mentioned ammo. as in how does one get that on the plane? if i'm going to print my gun and use in on main street fine. well not fine but .. if i'm going to use it in your town on your main street and fly there ...? do i buy ammo when i arrive. have it shipped to a UPS store for pick up?
 
2013-05-06 12:46:32 AM

Curious: Southern100: But for someone to take on an airplane? Absolutely possible. Is there anything the government can really do to stop it? Nope.

not to pick on you but so far no one has mentioned ammo. as in how does one get that on the plane? if i'm going to print my gun and use in on main street fine. well not fine but .. if i'm going to use it in your town on your main street and fly there ...? do i buy ammo when i arrive. have it shipped to a UPS store for pick up?


Ammunition doesn't have to contain metal. We've been over this. A glass bullet will kill you just as dead as a lead one.
 
2013-05-06 01:18:06 AM
www.extremetech.com

Some of these 3D printed parts don't look half bad.

And if you wanted metal ones, you could select a suitable plastic for use in an investment casting process.
 
2013-05-06 01:25:04 AM

studebaker hoch: [www.extremetech.com image 850x609]

Some of these 3D printed parts don't look half bad.

And if you wanted metal ones, you could select a suitable plastic for use in an investment casting process.


Why would anyone in their right mind need to manufacture their own guns? Near as I can tell, guns are basically pornography for some vocal minority.

I don't recall mass gun confiscations after the Brady Bill was signed.
 
2013-05-06 01:33:58 AM

Harry_Seldon: studebaker hoch: [www.extremetech.com image 850x609]

Some of these 3D printed parts don't look half bad.

And if you wanted metal ones, you could select a suitable plastic for use in an investment casting process.

Why would anyone in their right mind need to manufacture their own guns?


"Need" is of no relevance.


Near as I can tell, guns are basically pornography for some vocal minority.

Your willful ignorance is not a valid basis for analysis.


I don't recall mass gun confiscations after the Brady Bill was signed.

Your statement is a non-sequitur.
 
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