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(New York Daily News)   If 3D plastic guns are outlawed, only 3D plastic criminals will have them   (nydailynews.com) divider line 359
    More: Asinine, Chuck Schumer, Defense Distributed, Liberator, Security checkpoint, plastic guns  
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8324 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 May 2013 at 5:47 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-05 06:10:29 PM  
i just spent good money for A METAL gun that will last me my lifetime. why anyone would want a gun made outta polylactate or what-not - - maybe as the positive for a casting process using a real material ?
 
2013-05-05 06:10:35 PM  

Lt_Ryan: Just wait until someone finds out you can buy a CNC mill and steel online and starts making guns out of (gasp) metal. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the plans for just the part of the receiver that is legally classified as a gun, all the other parts are basically what you can buy online or in any store.


Here's an example of a receiver made from a shovel.  You don't even need something as advanced as a CNC machine to make a gun.
 
2013-05-05 06:11:04 PM  
Pro-gun, anti-gun whatever. I know for a fact that it is only a matter of time before some kid prints out a plastic gun and we hear about the carnage on tv.  Nobody will really care about the dead because it will be to  soon to talk about them.

Let's take a moment to morn the 1st person killed with one of these shall we, because after it happens people will be too busy defending their right to have all the guns you want or saying we should ban them.
 
2013-05-05 06:11:14 PM  

utah dude: bugontherug: porn, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the child porn, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until virtual reality makes child porn even more realistic..

how do you even come up with these thoughts? i just lost my appetite. maybe you should become a diet counselor.


He said, while furiously masturbating to child pornography.
 
2013-05-05 06:12:16 PM  

poorjon: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

I think it's because they're printing the only part of the gun that actually has to be registered. You can buy all the barrels and triggers and hammers you want, but it's this hunk of stuff that makes it all work.


You are confusing two different applications.  This one is an ABS single shot pistol with no metal in it.  (correction, the firing pin is made from a nail).  The other one is a plastic machined version of an M-16 receiver.  A quick google search for used cnc sherline mill turned up a desktop unit with computer for less than one thousand dollars.  The sherline is quite capable of making a receiver out of steel - with no serial number at all.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/133514-the-worlds-first-3d-printe d- gun

Quite illegal, of course.
 
2013-05-05 06:12:45 PM  

thisisyourbrainonFark: bugontherug: Tellingthem: "Now anyone, a terrorist, someone who is mentally ill, a spousal abuser, a felon, can essentially open a gun factory in their garage," he said. "It must be stopped."


It's too late. As soon as someone uploads the files online you are already too late. You can ban the guns, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the guns, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until hand held lasers become more powerful. We will then have untraceable phasers. No need to worry about bullets or noise suppression. Just a click and you can kill someone.

Same applies to child porn, of course. As soon as someone uploads the files online you are already too late. You can ban the child porn, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the child porn, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until virtual reality makes child porn even more realistic...

Too late?


child porn?  why not just legalize child pornography
 
2013-05-05 06:12:54 PM  

radarlove: utah dude: bugontherug: porn, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the child porn, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until virtual reality makes child porn even more realistic..

how do you even come up with these thoughts? i just lost my appetite. maybe you should become a diet counselor.

He said, while furiously masturbating to child pornography.


Your perverse fantasies about other Farkers are out of place in the current discussion.
 
2013-05-05 06:13:35 PM  

radarlove: utah dude: bugontherug: porn, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the child porn, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until virtual reality makes child porn even more realistic..

how do you even come up with these thoughts? i just lost my appetite. maybe you should become a diet counselor.

He said, while furiously masturbating to child pornography.


ew.
 
2013-05-05 06:13:55 PM  

Rincewind53: Key word here is plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think)


No the key word is hysteria.  Seriously the US is chock full of old unregistered untraceable guns.

Far as I can see '3D printed guns' are a lot like making a kit car off an old VW chassis.  You won't be able to make the hard parts of a rifle out of plastic, especially crappy 3D printed plastic.  At most what you are talking about is a niche hobbyists market.

Those quad copters on the hand scare the daylights out of me.
 
2013-05-05 06:14:57 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Antivirus companies can play their game in this market and make some money.  Add software to 3D printers that checks each file against a signature database and rejects files that print guns.  Charge subscription fees for updates.  Same business model they follow now.  Make it mandatory for all 3D printers and buyers.

Of course signature-based protection isn't complete.  For an additional fee, we can give you behavioral and heuristic real-time protection against uncatalogued "threats."  Anything that might be a gun part will be rejected.


People are reprogramming 3D printers with their own software, and some are replacing the standard electronics with their own custom stuff. Some are even building their own 3D printers from scratch.  You could try putting all kinds of requirements on manufacturers, but anyone with the desire and savvy to 3D print a gun isn't going to find any of that much of an obstacle.
 
2013-05-05 06:14:57 PM  

Jon iz teh kewl: child porn?  why not just legalize child pornography


because of the effects on kids. duh.
 
2013-05-05 06:15:07 PM  
And thus the idiocy of banning guns out of fear and censoring the internet out of profit fear for the corporations is nearly complete

/needs to be proper legislation for guns, less idiots/crazies with long-range weapons, the better
//censorship of ant kind is stupid
 
2013-05-05 06:15:27 PM  

Dimensio: Your perverse fantasies about other Farkers are out of place in the current discussion.


You're absolutely right, of course.  Now is the time for perverse fantasies about guns, the threat they present, and the threat of having them taken away!
 
2013-05-05 06:15:57 PM  
thenumber5:  good thing there "Plastic Gun" has the metal barrel

No, it doesn't.
 
2013-05-05 06:16:01 PM  

radarlove: utah dude: bugontherug: porn, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the child porn, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until virtual reality makes child porn even more realistic..

how do you even come up with these thoughts? i just lost my appetite. maybe you should become a diet counselor.

He said, while furiously masturbating to child pornography.


Whoever smelt it, dealt it.
 
2013-05-05 06:16:12 PM  

Lt_Ryan: Just wait until someone finds out you can buy a CNC mill and steel

all kinds of plastics online and starts making guns out of (gasp) metal plastic. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the plans for just the part of the receiver that is legally classified as a gun, all the other parts are basically what you can buy online or in any store.
FTFY.

Alternatively, you can make guns by making a copies of a real gun using two-part silicone rubber and epoxy resin. It will fall into pieces after a few shots, but hey, it's a GUN.
 
2013-05-05 06:16:29 PM  

Nill: With a $2000 printer you too can duplicate a $5 hardware store zipgun!
Except your plastic one will probably break.


give it time and it will get better. It's not the guns themselves that are the threat. It's the thought that you make now make things at home that the government has no control over. If they ban 30 round mags, you can print them up at home. And that is the part that is interesting. Now you do not have to go to the black market. You do not need to buy and hold until you need it. With a printer you can print one off in a few hours on demand. And yeah the printed guns right now a basically useless but they will get better. Hell I remember when a movie had to be chopped and heavily compressed to download it online. Now i can download a complete blu-ray file in less time than that previous movie. Technology advances and so do the problems that come along with it.
 
2013-05-05 06:16:58 PM  

utah dude: bugontherug: porn, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the child porn, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until virtual reality makes child porn even more realistic..

how do you even come up with these thoughts? i just lost my appetite. maybe you should become a diet counselor.


Well, someone made what struck me as an anti gun safety argument (I may have read it wrong, but I don't think so) by arguing that 3D guns cannot be regulated. So I parodied that argument by plugging in the words "child porn." The unspoken conclusion apparent sharp readers being "that something is difficult to regulate is a weak argument against regulating it."

"Parody" here being used in its legal sense, "to comment on the original."
 
2013-05-05 06:17:03 PM  
Would it even be feasible to print an entire gun out of plastic?  From what I know of most 3d printers, they use plastics that can be extruded at relatively low temperatures.  Would such an all-plastic gun even be able to survive the stress of a single shot considering the temperature and pressure involved?  If the gun is is as likely to explode in your hand as it is to actually work correctly, I don't see a real problem here.
 
2013-05-05 06:17:15 PM  
Yeah; you can produce all the rifles, pistols or rocket launchers you want in your own garage. You don't need a 3-d printer to do it. Even an apprentice metal worker could make a gun.
 
2013-05-05 06:18:45 PM  

RexTalionis: Rincewind53: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think).

The 3D printed guns that Defense Distributed have a piece of metal inside (aside from a nail that is used as a firing pin) to make it detectable by metal detectors. However, no one who prints one of their guns will have to put the metal piece in it. Considering that these printed guns also get destroyed after a few shots fired, they're almost perfect assassination weapons.

There has to be way better control of these things.




We could ban clothes.
 
2013-05-05 06:19:23 PM  
Ban 3D printing because zip guns were impossible before was invented!

/guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.
//or more properly the holes bullets leave kill people
 
2013-05-05 06:19:49 PM  

Biser: Quite illegal, of course.


[citation needed]

The text of the law making it illegal to mill your own receiver should be sufficient.
 
2013-05-05 06:19:59 PM  

redsquid: The future just got a lot scarier.

I stopped reading right there. Stop with the fear mongering. These 'guns' are not being made on consumer level machines. A RepRap or a Makerbot will not produce items nearly strong enough to do this. Anyone with the money to buy a 3D printer capable of printing these items could easily afford to just buy reliable guns on the black market. Only certain parts of the gun are made of printed plastic. It still needs a metal barrel and firing pin at the very least.


Nope. The only non-printed piece is a common hardware store nail used as its firing pin. The other 15 of its 16 pieces were printed on a 2nd hand Stratasys Dimension SST 3D printer.  The barrel is plastic. There are no striations on the bullets (barrel fingerprint), as the plastic isn't strong enough to imprint them (not to mention that it would change from heat after every firing, also).

Is it something that a a common thief/criminal would use? Probably not; it's too easy to get their hands on a REAL gun (either by theft or purchase).. But for someone to take on an airplane? Absolutely possible. Is there anything the government can really do to stop it? Nope.
 
2013-05-05 06:20:50 PM  

thenumber5: Rincewind53: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think).

good thing there "Plastic Gun" has the metal barrel


No metal barrel in this gun. Only a common hardware store nail used as a firing pin.
 
2013-05-05 06:21:24 PM  

Southern100: redsquid: The future just got a lot scarier.

I stopped reading right there. Stop with the fear mongering. These 'guns' are not being made on consumer level machines. A RepRap or a Makerbot will not produce items nearly strong enough to do this. Anyone with the money to buy a 3D printer capable of printing these items could easily afford to just buy reliable guns on the black market. Only certain parts of the gun are made of printed plastic. It still needs a metal barrel and firing pin at the very least.

Nope. The only non-printed piece is a common hardware store nail used as its firing pin. The other 15 of its 16 pieces were printed on a 2nd hand Stratasys Dimension SST 3D printer.  The barrel is plastic. There are no striations on the bullets (barrel fingerprint), as the plastic isn't strong enough to imprint them (not to mention that it would change from heat after every firing, also).

Is it something that a a common thief/criminal would use? Probably not; it's too easy to get their hands on a REAL gun (either by theft or purchase).. But for someone to take on an airplane? Absolutely possible. Is there anything the government can really do to stop it? Nope.


How would an individual smuggle ammunition onto a flight?
 
2013-05-05 06:22:39 PM  
It's ok guys... bullets are still made out of metal.
 
2013-05-05 06:23:23 PM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: Ban 3D printing because zip guns were impossible before was invented!

/guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.
//or more properly the holes bullets leave kill people


Actually, it's usually myocardial infarction  caused by the holes bullets leave that kills people.
 
2013-05-05 06:24:02 PM  

RexTalionis: There has to be way better control of these things.


There's not.  Deal with it, and get over it.
 
2013-05-05 06:24:38 PM  

lewismarktwo: It's ok guys... bullets are still made out of metal.


they're made out of play doh
 
2013-05-05 06:24:58 PM  

Rincewind53: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think).


What are bullets made of? What use is a non-metal gun you can get past security if you don't have anything to fire?

/yes non-metal guns are illegal
 
2013-05-05 06:25:31 PM  
farm5.staticflickr.com

s3files.core77.com

The above items were produced with consumer level 3D printers. Look at how rough and imperfect the surface is. This technology will not produce the tolerances necessary for a working gun. This isn't even considering the weakness of the thermoplastic used in the lower end 3D printers. Fear exists in the absence of knowledge.
 
2013-05-05 06:26:55 PM  
Double D, 3D. Now they want to ban Big'Uns.

profile.ak.fbcdn.net
 
2013-05-05 06:27:59 PM  
At the moment, 3-d printer guns are at the "explode in your hands" stage of development.

Mind, you, it's only been a few centuries since the metal originals were more prone to killing or maiming the musketeer or duellist than whatever the gun might have been pointed towards.

The Napoleonic Wars are said to be the first war in which more troops were killed on the battlefield than died of the pox and other diseases. It was also the first war in which guns were better than long bows and in which a man had a greater chance of killing an enemy or fellow soldier with a gun rather than himself.

And lovers of the Second Amendment should contemplate the fact that when the Second Amendment was passed, Mr. Wincheser, Smith, Wesson, and Colt had not yet introduced mass manufacture to the munitions and armament industries, so that the only hand guns and mass- murdering type weapons were pretty much entirely in the hands of the 1% and the upper servant classes, plus the odd farmer here and there. Landowners almost to the last man (or lady).

The American troops at Valley Forge were mostly armed with farm implements and frozen toes which they could throw at the enemy since they didn't have any boots and their feet were wrapped in strips torn off of their shirts.

The Founding Fathers did not mean for every Tom, Dick and Harry to have an arsenel that would impress the King of England.

They meant to have an arsenel of their own that would keep the slaves, tenants, indentured servants and riff-riff in their places so gentlemen, rich farmers, and patricians could get on with the serious business of enslaving the blacks, slaughtering the reds, converting and looting the yellows of the wealth of the Orient, and pissing on anybody below the honourary rank of Captain who made the mistake of thinking they they are "white". They believed in "well-regulated militias" only because they were the Captains, Lieutenants, Colonels, and Generals who did the regulating and who could call up the militias to defend the interests or whims of their masters.

The Whigs and the Tories in those days had their own free market approach to National Defence. They bought and sold the officer ranks, made good to massive incomes to re-pay the high prices and operating cost of regiments and armies from whatever they could steal in the way of loot from enemies or the populace, or in logistic manipulation of materiel from gubbermint contracts. They were prepared to revolt against their Sovereign the American People as readily as they had cast off the Metropolitan elites and Crown.

In short, they were very much like modern Republicans and Democrats, except that they could be hanged for breaking the laws against piracy and plunder, which they had not yet had the leisure to re-write the laws and Constituton to make their grand theft and petty peculations legal.

Remember their motto: We must all hang together or we shall assuredly hang separately.
 
2013-05-05 06:28:10 PM  

redsquid: [farm5.staticflickr.com image 240x180]

[s3files.core77.com image 468x597]

The above items were produced with consumer level 3D printers. Look at how rough and imperfect the surface is. This technology will not produce the tolerances necessary for a working gun. This isn't even considering the weakness of the thermoplastic used in the lower end 3D printers. Fear exists in the absence of knowledge.


so that means New Zealand is BETTER than Australia!
 
2013-05-05 06:29:00 PM  
So I just have to make plastic bullets, plastic shell casings, and plastic primers and we'll be set.
 
2013-05-05 06:29:09 PM  
I dont know if this has pointed out yet, but aren't 3D printers, like, not cheap? And isn't the manufacturing process rather time consuming? Because I'm sure criminals are going to go into this idea.
 
2013-05-05 06:29:21 PM  

lewismarktwo: It's ok guys... bullets are still made out of metal.


Maybe assassins are planning to bludgeon their targets to death.
 
2013-05-05 06:29:38 PM  
When homemade dildos are banned, then only criminals will own homemade dildos.
 
2013-05-05 06:30:07 PM  

jjorsett: BarkingUnicorn: Antivirus companies can play their game in this market and make some money.  Add software to 3D printers that checks each file against a signature database and rejects files that print guns.  Charge subscription fees for updates.  Same business model they follow now.  Make it mandatory for all 3D printers and buyers.

Of course signature-based protection isn't complete.  For an additional fee, we can give you behavioral and heuristic real-time protection against uncatalogued "threats."  Anything that might be a gun part will be rejected.

People are reprogramming 3D printers with their own software, and some are replacing the standard electronics with their own custom stuff. Some are even building their own 3D printers from scratch.  You could try putting all kinds of requirements on manufacturers, but anyone with the desire and savvy to 3D print a gun isn't going to find any of that much of an obstacle.


I think you just narrowed the problematic population down to one person.
 
2013-05-05 06:30:33 PM  

redsquid: [farm5.staticflickr.com image 240x180]

[s3files.core77.com image 468x597]

The above items were produced with consumer level 3D printers. Look at how rough and imperfect the surface is. This technology will not produce the tolerances necessary for a working gun.


Why do you refuse to accept the fact that it already has?

Or do you just think this is all one big hoax?
 
2013-05-05 06:30:43 PM  

brantgoose: At the moment, 3-d printer guns are at the "explode in your hands" stage of development.

Mind, you, it's only been a few centuries since the metal originals were more prone to killing or maiming the musketeer or duellist than whatever the gun might have been pointed towards.

The Napoleonic Wars are said to be the first war in which more troops were killed on the battlefield than died of the pox and other diseases. It was also the first war in which guns were better than long bows and in which a man had a greater chance of killing an enemy or fellow soldier with a gun rather than himself.

And lovers of the Second Amendment should contemplate the fact that when the Second Amendment was passed, Mr. Wincheser, Smith, Wesson, and Colt had not yet introduced mass manufacture to the munitions and armament industries, so that the only hand guns and mass- murdering type weapons were pretty much entirely in the hands of the 1% and the upper servant classes, plus the odd farmer here and there. Landowners almost to the last man (or lady).

The American troops at Valley Forge were mostly armed with farm implements and frozen toes which they could throw at the enemy since they didn't have any boots and their feet were wrapped in strips torn off of their shirts.

The Founding Fathers did not mean for every Tom, Dick and Harry to have an arsenel that would impress the King of England.

They meant to have an arsenel of their own that would keep the slaves, tenants, indentured servants and riff-riff in their places so gentlemen, rich farmers, and patricians could get on with the serious business of enslaving the blacks, slaughtering the reds, converting and looting the yellows of the wealth of the Orient, and pissing on anybody below the honourary rank of Captain who made the mistake of thinking they they are "white". They believed in "well-regulated militias" only because they were the Captains, Lieutenants, Colonels, and Generals who did the regulating and who could call up the ...


what's an arsenel ?
 
2013-05-05 06:30:52 PM  
I have never worked for the TSA, but unless they are using plastic bullets, I think they can still detect them.
 
2013-05-05 06:31:05 PM  

utah dude: i just spent good money for A METAL gun that will last me my lifetime. why anyone would want a gun made outta polylactate or what-not - - maybe as the positive for a casting process using a real material ?


Personally, I would rather have a pizza oven.
 
2013-05-05 06:31:07 PM  

redmid17: /yes non-metal guns are illegal


Damn that RINO Reagan!  He raised taxes too, you know!

/not to mention the immigrant amnesty stuff
 
2013-05-05 06:32:47 PM  

lewismarktwo: Imagine if instead of wanting to keep people from printing 'untraceable' 'undetectable' guns we might concentrate on wanting to keep people from wanting to use 'untraceable' 'undetectable' guns.

Also, no religion too.


You're a dreamer
 
2013-05-05 06:33:52 PM  

utah dude: what's an arsenel ?


Seriously? Nitpicking spelling? On Fark?

We do need a right to keep and bear arms--to protect ourselves from the tyranny of Grammar Nazis like you!

(for the record, I'm aware that was an epically bad pun)
 
2013-05-05 06:34:19 PM  

Molavian: So I just have to make plastic bullets, plastic shell casings, and plastic primers and we'll be set.


They actually have plastic shell casings.  They work fairly well, iirc, depending on the type of round in question.
 
2013-05-05 06:34:49 PM  
Sure, someone can make an all-plastic AK-47 that can be buried in the backyard along with canisters of silver nickels and MREs but you have to remember the kind of person that would buy a 3D printer is also the kind of person that would have to load it down with so many useless after market parts like eight laser sights and a bayonet on both ends that it would be incapable of firing.
 
2013-05-05 06:35:43 PM  

RexTalionis: untaken_name: RexTalionis: Considering that these printed guns also get destroyed after a few shots fired, they're almost perfect assassination weapons.

They don't vanish, dude. They just stop shooting properly. You'd probably want something more reliable for a real assassination.

It's a weapon that is undetectable by metal detectors that can be printed in someone's garage where the weapon will change and destroy the ballistic fingerprints of the rounds every time they fire, and will eventually be completely inoperative and can be melted down easily.


It is not undetectable. Certain gun parts will always need to be made from metal, most notably the firing pin and the barrel. Other materials can't stand up to the intense pressure and temperature.
 
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