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(New York Daily News)   If 3D plastic guns are outlawed, only 3D plastic criminals will have them   (nydailynews.com) divider line 360
    More: Asinine, Chuck Schumer, Defense Distributed, Liberator, Security checkpoint, plastic guns  
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8302 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 May 2013 at 5:47 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-05 03:29:09 PM
it's Blue and White.  just like Israel
 
2013-05-05 03:43:20 PM
You mean the picture of the printed gun with the broken trigger?
 
2013-05-05 03:57:53 PM
BSAB:
Anti-gun proposes any regulations = They're gonna confiscate all of our guns!
Pro-gun shows 3-d printed gun = Every nutjob is going to have an arsenal!

Neither point is accurate. Both sides have issues that need to be addressed. Unfortunately, our society has become too polarized for any rational discussion on any important issue.
 
2013-05-05 04:57:28 PM
3D printing is going to be as disruptive to manufacturing as the Internet was to IP. Give it 20 years and they'll be ubiquitous.
 
2013-05-05 05:07:44 PM
Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?
 
2013-05-05 05:12:37 PM

Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?


Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think).
 
2013-05-05 05:15:08 PM

Rincewind53: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think).


That's their problem.
 
2013-05-05 05:47:37 PM
"Now anyone, a terrorist, someone who is mentally ill, a spousal abuser, a felon, can essentially open a gun factory in their garage," he said. "It must be stopped."


It's too late. As soon as someone uploads the files online you are already too late. You can ban the guns, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the guns, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until hand held lasers become more powerful. We will then have untraceable phasers. No need to worry about bullets or noise suppression. Just a click and you can kill someone.
 
2013-05-05 05:48:46 PM
Impossible to detect?  I thought stuff like this was why they moved airports to backscatter machines instead of metal detectors?
 
2013-05-05 05:48:48 PM

Rincewind53: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think).


The 3D printed guns that Defense Distributed have a piece of metal inside (aside from a nail that is used as a firing pin) to make it detectable by metal detectors. However, no one who prints one of their guns will have to put the metal piece in it. Considering that these printed guns also get destroyed after a few shots fired, they're almost perfect assassination weapons.

There has to be way better control of these things.
 
2013-05-05 05:48:51 PM

Rincewind53: 3D printing is going to be as disruptive to manufacturing as the Internet was to IP. Give it 20 years and they'll be ubiquitous.


it's cause they make transformers

/more than meets teh eye
 
2013-05-05 05:49:05 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com
/not amused that some random idiot can make those things
 
2013-05-05 05:49:52 PM

Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?


I think it's because they're printing the only part of the gun that actually has to be registered. You can buy all the barrels and triggers and hammers you want, but it's this hunk of stuff that makes it all work.
 
2013-05-05 05:51:18 PM

RexTalionis: Considering that these printed guns also get destroyed after a few shots fired, they're almost perfect assassination weapons.


They don't vanish, dude. They just stop shooting properly. You'd probably want something more reliable for a real assassination.
 
2013-05-05 05:52:45 PM

Raharu: You mean the picture of the printed gun with the broken trigger?


SHUSH YOU
3D PRINTING IS YOUR NEW GOD
EVERYTHING YOU KNEW IS OBSOLETE

ALL HAIL OUR THREE DIMENSIONAL FUTURE

Rincewind53: 3D printing is going to be as disruptive to manufacturing as the Internet was to IP. Give it 20 years and they'll be ubiquitous.


You have no clue about how anything is manufactured.

"3D printing" has been used in manufacturing for about 30 years now

The "disruptive" future you imagine is NOW.

What's happening is a new hobby market for plastic trinkets and exaggerated breathless stories like this one.

Also... information processing require little energy and very little material. 3D printing is about the physical world.

See the difference?

3D print yourself some Lenscrafters and think about it.
 
2013-05-05 05:53:40 PM
3.bp.blogspot.com

"I'm comin' over to hurt your kids and take your property, and there's nothin' you can do to stop me, see?  Hmyeah!"
 
2013-05-05 05:54:45 PM
Imagine if instead of wanting to keep people from printing 'untraceable' 'undetectable' guns we might concentrate on wanting to keep people from wanting to use 'untraceable' 'undetectable' guns.

Also, no religion too.
 
2013-05-05 05:55:24 PM

poorjon: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

I think it's because they're printing the only part of the gun that actually has to be registered. You can buy all the barrels and triggers and hammers you want, but it's this hunk of stuff that makes it all work.


You don't have to register that piece if you manufacture it yourself. So says the law. If you have a machine shop, you can make all the metal unregistered (fully automatic, even) guns you want to make. Just don't try to sell or move them across state lines, and if you're in Arizona, don't manufacture a fully automatic gun because they've illegitimately banned them. Just because the manufacturing process got more affordable doesn't mean that it got more deadly or anything. Anyone who wants a zip gun can find plans for them on the internet already, and anyone who wants a real gun has probably just bought one by now. This is just posturing by a scared politician who doesn't understand technology or humanity. Banning the files will do about as much good as banning drugs. People who wouldn't use them anyway still won't, and people who want them will seek them out and use them even if they're banned. Big waste of time, like most things politicians do.
 
2013-05-05 05:55:36 PM

untaken_name: RexTalionis: Considering that these printed guns also get destroyed after a few shots fired, they're almost perfect assassination weapons.

They don't vanish, dude. They just stop shooting properly. You'd probably want something more reliable for a real assassination.


It's a weapon that is undetectable by metal detectors that can be printed in someone's garage where the weapon will change and destroy the ballistic fingerprints of the rounds every time they fire, and will eventually be completely inoperative and can be melted down easily.
 
2013-05-05 05:55:53 PM
wasn't there a movie where teh guy had a plastic gun and tried to assassinate the president
 
2013-05-05 05:57:13 PM

Quantum Apostrophe: 3D print yourself some Lenscrafters and think about it.


What do most people shell out more for at Lenscrafters- the lenses, or those God-awful Christian Dior frames that they can easily print up on a printer now?
 
2013-05-05 05:58:08 PM
you DONT NEED LENSCRAFTERS all you NEED IS DIANETICS
 
2013-05-05 05:58:24 PM
souldonuts.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-05-05 05:58:35 PM
this is clearly what the founding fathers were thinking of when they drafted the 2nd Amendment.
 
2013-05-05 05:59:59 PM

radarlove: Quantum Apostrophe: 3D print yourself some Lenscrafters and think about it.

What do most people shell out more for at Lenscrafters- the lenses, or those God-awful Christian Dior frames that they can easily print up on a printer now?


Because I still have aaaaaaaaaaahhhhh-ooooooooooooooshreeeeeeeeeeeeee-dialup?
 
2013-05-05 06:00:37 PM

thisisyourbrainonFark: [souldonuts.files.wordpress.com image 389x397]


I miss Max.  Somebody call Matt Frewer.  It's time for a reboot.
 
2013-05-05 06:01:28 PM
Antivirus companies can play their game in this market and make some money.  Add software to 3D printers that checks each file against a signature database and rejects files that print guns.  Charge subscription fees for updates.  Same business model they follow now.  Make it mandatory for all 3D printers and buyers.

Of course signature-based protection isn't complete.  For an additional fee, we can give you behavioral and heuristic real-time protection against uncatalogued "threats."  Anything that might be a gun part will be rejected.
 
2013-05-05 06:01:30 PM
3d printer ownership and gun manufacture should be mandatory. that will fix the problem.
 
2013-05-05 06:01:40 PM
Make the plastics out of hemp and power the printers with wind energy.  Protect the environment while protecting yourself in said environment.  The libtards will self-destruct with the overwhelming amount of cognitive dissonance.
 
2013-05-05 06:02:32 PM
Just wait until someone finds out you can buy a CNC mill and steel online and starts making guns out of (gasp) metal. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the plans for just the part of the receiver that is legally classified as a gun, all the other parts are basically what you can buy online or in any store.
 
2013-05-05 06:02:39 PM
The future just got a lot scarier.

I stopped reading right there. Stop with the fear mongering. These 'guns' are not being made on consumer level machines. A RepRap or a Makerbot will not produce items nearly strong enough to do this. Anyone with the money to buy a 3D printer capable of printing these items could easily afford to just buy reliable guns on the black market. Only certain parts of the gun are made of printed plastic. It still needs a metal barrel and firing pin at the very least. 3D printed guns are a stunt that is causing more harm to the future of additive manufacturing than anything else. The technology isn't anywhere near able to make this a real threat. There are multi-axis milling machines out there that could turn these parts out all day long but where's the media created outcry about them?
Imagine what this bad boy could do-
http://youtu.be/KDPA06D1r_8
 
2013-05-05 06:02:43 PM

thisisyourbrainonFark: radarlove: Quantum Apostrophe: 3D print yourself some Lenscrafters and think about it.

What do most people shell out more for at Lenscrafters- the lenses, or those God-awful Christian Dior frames that they can easily print up on a printer now?

Because I still have aaaaaaaaaaahhhhh-ooooooooooooooshreeeeeeeeeeeeee-dialup?


¿lolque?
 
2013-05-05 06:03:33 PM

calbert: this is clearly what the founding fathers were thinking of when they drafted the 2nd Amendment.


Like the Internet and the First Amendment?
 
2013-05-05 06:03:44 PM

RexTalionis: untaken_name: RexTalionis: Considering that these printed guns also get destroyed after a few shots fired, they're almost perfect assassination weapons.

They don't vanish, dude. They just stop shooting properly. You'd probably want something more reliable for a real assassination.

It's a weapon that is undetectable by metal detectors that can be printed in someone's garage where the weapon will change and destroy the ballistic fingerprints of the rounds every time they fire, and will eventually be completely inoperative and can be melted down easily.


So what? Have you actually read up on any real-life assassinations, or are you basing your opinion on some Tom Clancy novel? You can make a zip gun with crap from Home Depot, have been able to for many many years. That still doesn't mean that they're used in a lot of assassinations. You can change the "ballistic fingerprints" (hint: you don't know much about ballistics) with steel wool or a sharp piece of metal, if it were even necessary. The only real advantage is avoiding metal detectors, and if you're going that route, there are plenty of non-metallic knives, and plenty of zip gun designs that could be assembled past the metal detector from seemingly innocuous parts. Additionally, a proper sniper rifle makes metal detectors useless anyway. Finally, assassination is easy. It's getting away with it that's difficult.
 
2013-05-05 06:03:57 PM
"A Texas company..."

Oh why am I not surprised.
 
2013-05-05 06:04:36 PM

detritus: Make the plastics out of hemp and power the printers with wind energy. Protect the environment while protecting yourself in said environment. The libtards will self-destruct with the overwhelming amount of cognitive dissonance.


Maybe so. The left hasn't evolved a natural resistance to the effects of CD from prolonged exposure, like the right has. Survival of the dimmest, I guess.
 
2013-05-05 06:05:07 PM

Rincewind53: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think).


good thing there "Plastic Gun" has the metal barrel
 
2013-05-05 06:05:11 PM

radarlove: thisisyourbrainonFark: radarlove: Quantum Apostrophe: 3D print yourself some Lenscrafters and think about it.

What do most people shell out more for at Lenscrafters- the lenses, or those God-awful Christian Dior frames that they can easily print up on a printer now?

Because I still have aaaaaaaaaaahhhhh-ooooooooooooooshreeeeeeeeeeeeee-dialup?

¿lolque?


It was my attempt at the old internet dial-up tone, you know, before there was a Fark or a farking Caturday.
 
2013-05-05 06:05:18 PM

Tellingthem: "Now anyone, a terrorist, someone who is mentally ill, a spousal abuser, a felon, can essentially open a gun factory in their garage," he said. "It must be stopped."


It's too late. As soon as someone uploads the files online you are already too late. You can ban the guns, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the guns, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until hand held lasers become more powerful. We will then have untraceable phasers. No need to worry about bullets or noise suppression. Just a click and you can kill someone.


Same applies to child porn, of course. As soon as someone uploads the files online you are already too late. You can ban the child porn, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the child porn, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until virtual reality makes child porn even more realistic...
 
2013-05-05 06:06:00 PM
"Now anyone, a terrorist, someone who is mentally ill, a spousal abuser, a felon, can essentially open a gun factory in their garage," he said. "It must be stopped."

How, Chuck? You've got 3D printers, which you say you have no problem with, and you have digital design files, which are essentially abstractions out there in the ether. What are you going to make illegal that could possibly stop somebody from obtaining and putting these two things together if they want? You're trying to ban an idea, you dope.
 
2013-05-05 06:06:26 PM
So why have regular metalworking tools been legal forever?  The general public has had access to metal working tools which can very easily make guns.  Illegal gun manufacturing has never been a significant issue in this country, so why is it now, when a device that can print shoes isn't far out of reach, that politicians suddenly care about illegally manufactured guns?

This isn't about guns, this is about manufacturers trying to keep you from being able to make your own products.
 
2013-05-05 06:06:31 PM
Something tells me it would be a lot cheaper and easier to just buy a shiat .22 on the street than it would be to buy a Makerbot, supplies, ammunition (or are they printing that too?), download the schematic, print a test run, then print the actual gun.
 
2013-05-05 06:06:38 PM
What he and his colleagues fail to realize is that the Genie is already out of the bottle.  Therefore, at this point, it is akin to legislating against sunshine.
They either know this or this is simply more anti-gun hype to stir the masses who have no clue of this reality.
 
2013-05-05 06:07:05 PM
Must get the popcorn ready...
 
2013-05-05 06:07:25 PM
With a $2000 printer you too can duplicate a $5 hardware store zipgun!
Except your plastic one will probably break.
 
2013-05-05 06:07:40 PM
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a 3D printer is a good guy with a 3D printer.
 
2013-05-05 06:07:44 PM

bugontherug: porn, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the child porn, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until virtual reality makes child porn even more realistic..


how do you even come up with these thoughts? i just lost my appetite. maybe you should become a diet counselor.
 
2013-05-05 06:08:16 PM

PsyLord: [1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x172]
/not amused that some random idiot can make those things


Came for this reference.
 
2013-05-05 06:08:41 PM
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

3d plastic criminal
 
2013-05-05 06:09:18 PM

bugontherug: Tellingthem: "Now anyone, a terrorist, someone who is mentally ill, a spousal abuser, a felon, can essentially open a gun factory in their garage," he said. "It must be stopped."


It's too late. As soon as someone uploads the files online you are already too late. You can ban the guns, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the guns, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until hand held lasers become more powerful. We will then have untraceable phasers. No need to worry about bullets or noise suppression. Just a click and you can kill someone.

Same applies to child porn, of course. As soon as someone uploads the files online you are already too late. You can ban the child porn, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the child porn, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until virtual reality makes child porn even more realistic...


Too late?
 
2013-05-05 06:10:29 PM
i just spent good money for A METAL gun that will last me my lifetime. why anyone would want a gun made outta polylactate or what-not - - maybe as the positive for a casting process using a real material ?
 
2013-05-05 06:10:35 PM

Lt_Ryan: Just wait until someone finds out you can buy a CNC mill and steel online and starts making guns out of (gasp) metal. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the plans for just the part of the receiver that is legally classified as a gun, all the other parts are basically what you can buy online or in any store.


Here's an example of a receiver made from a shovel.  You don't even need something as advanced as a CNC machine to make a gun.
 
2013-05-05 06:11:04 PM
Pro-gun, anti-gun whatever. I know for a fact that it is only a matter of time before some kid prints out a plastic gun and we hear about the carnage on tv.  Nobody will really care about the dead because it will be to  soon to talk about them.

Let's take a moment to morn the 1st person killed with one of these shall we, because after it happens people will be too busy defending their right to have all the guns you want or saying we should ban them.
 
2013-05-05 06:11:14 PM

utah dude: bugontherug: porn, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the child porn, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until virtual reality makes child porn even more realistic..

how do you even come up with these thoughts? i just lost my appetite. maybe you should become a diet counselor.


He said, while furiously masturbating to child pornography.
 
2013-05-05 06:12:16 PM

poorjon: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

I think it's because they're printing the only part of the gun that actually has to be registered. You can buy all the barrels and triggers and hammers you want, but it's this hunk of stuff that makes it all work.


You are confusing two different applications.  This one is an ABS single shot pistol with no metal in it.  (correction, the firing pin is made from a nail).  The other one is a plastic machined version of an M-16 receiver.  A quick google search for used cnc sherline mill turned up a desktop unit with computer for less than one thousand dollars.  The sherline is quite capable of making a receiver out of steel - with no serial number at all.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/133514-the-worlds-first-3d-printe d- gun

Quite illegal, of course.
 
2013-05-05 06:12:45 PM

thisisyourbrainonFark: bugontherug: Tellingthem: "Now anyone, a terrorist, someone who is mentally ill, a spousal abuser, a felon, can essentially open a gun factory in their garage," he said. "It must be stopped."


It's too late. As soon as someone uploads the files online you are already too late. You can ban the guns, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the guns, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until hand held lasers become more powerful. We will then have untraceable phasers. No need to worry about bullets or noise suppression. Just a click and you can kill someone.

Same applies to child porn, of course. As soon as someone uploads the files online you are already too late. You can ban the child porn, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the child porn, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until virtual reality makes child porn even more realistic...

Too late?


child porn?  why not just legalize child pornography
 
2013-05-05 06:12:54 PM

radarlove: utah dude: bugontherug: porn, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the child porn, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until virtual reality makes child porn even more realistic..

how do you even come up with these thoughts? i just lost my appetite. maybe you should become a diet counselor.

He said, while furiously masturbating to child pornography.


Your perverse fantasies about other Farkers are out of place in the current discussion.
 
2013-05-05 06:13:35 PM

radarlove: utah dude: bugontherug: porn, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the child porn, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until virtual reality makes child porn even more realistic..

how do you even come up with these thoughts? i just lost my appetite. maybe you should become a diet counselor.

He said, while furiously masturbating to child pornography.


ew.
 
2013-05-05 06:13:55 PM

Rincewind53: Key word here is plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think)


No the key word is hysteria.  Seriously the US is chock full of old unregistered untraceable guns.

Far as I can see '3D printed guns' are a lot like making a kit car off an old VW chassis.  You won't be able to make the hard parts of a rifle out of plastic, especially crappy 3D printed plastic.  At most what you are talking about is a niche hobbyists market.

Those quad copters on the hand scare the daylights out of me.
 
2013-05-05 06:14:57 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Antivirus companies can play their game in this market and make some money.  Add software to 3D printers that checks each file against a signature database and rejects files that print guns.  Charge subscription fees for updates.  Same business model they follow now.  Make it mandatory for all 3D printers and buyers.

Of course signature-based protection isn't complete.  For an additional fee, we can give you behavioral and heuristic real-time protection against uncatalogued "threats."  Anything that might be a gun part will be rejected.


People are reprogramming 3D printers with their own software, and some are replacing the standard electronics with their own custom stuff. Some are even building their own 3D printers from scratch.  You could try putting all kinds of requirements on manufacturers, but anyone with the desire and savvy to 3D print a gun isn't going to find any of that much of an obstacle.
 
2013-05-05 06:14:57 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: child porn?  why not just legalize child pornography


because of the effects on kids. duh.
 
2013-05-05 06:15:07 PM
And thus the idiocy of banning guns out of fear and censoring the internet out of profit fear for the corporations is nearly complete

/needs to be proper legislation for guns, less idiots/crazies with long-range weapons, the better
//censorship of ant kind is stupid
 
2013-05-05 06:15:27 PM

Dimensio: Your perverse fantasies about other Farkers are out of place in the current discussion.


You're absolutely right, of course.  Now is the time for perverse fantasies about guns, the threat they present, and the threat of having them taken away!
 
2013-05-05 06:15:57 PM
thenumber5:  good thing there "Plastic Gun" has the metal barrel

No, it doesn't.
 
2013-05-05 06:16:01 PM

radarlove: utah dude: bugontherug: porn, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the child porn, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until virtual reality makes child porn even more realistic..

how do you even come up with these thoughts? i just lost my appetite. maybe you should become a diet counselor.

He said, while furiously masturbating to child pornography.


Whoever smelt it, dealt it.
 
2013-05-05 06:16:12 PM

Lt_Ryan: Just wait until someone finds out you can buy a CNC mill and steel

all kinds of plastics online and starts making guns out of (gasp) metal plastic. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the plans for just the part of the receiver that is legally classified as a gun, all the other parts are basically what you can buy online or in any store.
FTFY.

Alternatively, you can make guns by making a copies of a real gun using two-part silicone rubber and epoxy resin. It will fall into pieces after a few shots, but hey, it's a GUN.
 
2013-05-05 06:16:29 PM

Nill: With a $2000 printer you too can duplicate a $5 hardware store zipgun!
Except your plastic one will probably break.


give it time and it will get better. It's not the guns themselves that are the threat. It's the thought that you make now make things at home that the government has no control over. If they ban 30 round mags, you can print them up at home. And that is the part that is interesting. Now you do not have to go to the black market. You do not need to buy and hold until you need it. With a printer you can print one off in a few hours on demand. And yeah the printed guns right now a basically useless but they will get better. Hell I remember when a movie had to be chopped and heavily compressed to download it online. Now i can download a complete blu-ray file in less time than that previous movie. Technology advances and so do the problems that come along with it.
 
2013-05-05 06:16:58 PM

utah dude: bugontherug: porn, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the child porn, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until virtual reality makes child porn even more realistic..

how do you even come up with these thoughts? i just lost my appetite. maybe you should become a diet counselor.


Well, someone made what struck me as an anti gun safety argument (I may have read it wrong, but I don't think so) by arguing that 3D guns cannot be regulated. So I parodied that argument by plugging in the words "child porn." The unspoken conclusion apparent sharp readers being "that something is difficult to regulate is a weak argument against regulating it."

"Parody" here being used in its legal sense, "to comment on the original."
 
2013-05-05 06:17:03 PM
Would it even be feasible to print an entire gun out of plastic?  From what I know of most 3d printers, they use plastics that can be extruded at relatively low temperatures.  Would such an all-plastic gun even be able to survive the stress of a single shot considering the temperature and pressure involved?  If the gun is is as likely to explode in your hand as it is to actually work correctly, I don't see a real problem here.
 
2013-05-05 06:17:15 PM
Yeah; you can produce all the rifles, pistols or rocket launchers you want in your own garage. You don't need a 3-d printer to do it. Even an apprentice metal worker could make a gun.
 
2013-05-05 06:18:45 PM

RexTalionis: Rincewind53: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think).

The 3D printed guns that Defense Distributed have a piece of metal inside (aside from a nail that is used as a firing pin) to make it detectable by metal detectors. However, no one who prints one of their guns will have to put the metal piece in it. Considering that these printed guns also get destroyed after a few shots fired, they're almost perfect assassination weapons.

There has to be way better control of these things.




We could ban clothes.
 
2013-05-05 06:19:23 PM
Ban 3D printing because zip guns were impossible before was invented!

/guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.
//or more properly the holes bullets leave kill people
 
2013-05-05 06:19:49 PM

Biser: Quite illegal, of course.


[citation needed]

The text of the law making it illegal to mill your own receiver should be sufficient.
 
2013-05-05 06:19:59 PM

redsquid: The future just got a lot scarier.

I stopped reading right there. Stop with the fear mongering. These 'guns' are not being made on consumer level machines. A RepRap or a Makerbot will not produce items nearly strong enough to do this. Anyone with the money to buy a 3D printer capable of printing these items could easily afford to just buy reliable guns on the black market. Only certain parts of the gun are made of printed plastic. It still needs a metal barrel and firing pin at the very least.


Nope. The only non-printed piece is a common hardware store nail used as its firing pin. The other 15 of its 16 pieces were printed on a 2nd hand Stratasys Dimension SST 3D printer.  The barrel is plastic. There are no striations on the bullets (barrel fingerprint), as the plastic isn't strong enough to imprint them (not to mention that it would change from heat after every firing, also).

Is it something that a a common thief/criminal would use? Probably not; it's too easy to get their hands on a REAL gun (either by theft or purchase).. But for someone to take on an airplane? Absolutely possible. Is there anything the government can really do to stop it? Nope.
 
2013-05-05 06:20:50 PM

thenumber5: Rincewind53: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think).

good thing there "Plastic Gun" has the metal barrel


No metal barrel in this gun. Only a common hardware store nail used as a firing pin.
 
2013-05-05 06:21:24 PM

Southern100: redsquid: The future just got a lot scarier.

I stopped reading right there. Stop with the fear mongering. These 'guns' are not being made on consumer level machines. A RepRap or a Makerbot will not produce items nearly strong enough to do this. Anyone with the money to buy a 3D printer capable of printing these items could easily afford to just buy reliable guns on the black market. Only certain parts of the gun are made of printed plastic. It still needs a metal barrel and firing pin at the very least.

Nope. The only non-printed piece is a common hardware store nail used as its firing pin. The other 15 of its 16 pieces were printed on a 2nd hand Stratasys Dimension SST 3D printer.  The barrel is plastic. There are no striations on the bullets (barrel fingerprint), as the plastic isn't strong enough to imprint them (not to mention that it would change from heat after every firing, also).

Is it something that a a common thief/criminal would use? Probably not; it's too easy to get their hands on a REAL gun (either by theft or purchase).. But for someone to take on an airplane? Absolutely possible. Is there anything the government can really do to stop it? Nope.


How would an individual smuggle ammunition onto a flight?
 
2013-05-05 06:22:39 PM
It's ok guys... bullets are still made out of metal.
 
2013-05-05 06:23:23 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: Ban 3D printing because zip guns were impossible before was invented!

/guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.
//or more properly the holes bullets leave kill people


Actually, it's usually myocardial infarction  caused by the holes bullets leave that kills people.
 
2013-05-05 06:24:02 PM

RexTalionis: There has to be way better control of these things.


There's not.  Deal with it, and get over it.
 
2013-05-05 06:24:38 PM

lewismarktwo: It's ok guys... bullets are still made out of metal.


they're made out of play doh
 
2013-05-05 06:24:58 PM

Rincewind53: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think).


What are bullets made of? What use is a non-metal gun you can get past security if you don't have anything to fire?

/yes non-metal guns are illegal
 
2013-05-05 06:25:31 PM
farm5.staticflickr.com

s3files.core77.com

The above items were produced with consumer level 3D printers. Look at how rough and imperfect the surface is. This technology will not produce the tolerances necessary for a working gun. This isn't even considering the weakness of the thermoplastic used in the lower end 3D printers. Fear exists in the absence of knowledge.
 
2013-05-05 06:26:55 PM
Double D, 3D. Now they want to ban Big'Uns.

profile.ak.fbcdn.net
 
2013-05-05 06:27:59 PM
At the moment, 3-d printer guns are at the "explode in your hands" stage of development.

Mind, you, it's only been a few centuries since the metal originals were more prone to killing or maiming the musketeer or duellist than whatever the gun might have been pointed towards.

The Napoleonic Wars are said to be the first war in which more troops were killed on the battlefield than died of the pox and other diseases. It was also the first war in which guns were better than long bows and in which a man had a greater chance of killing an enemy or fellow soldier with a gun rather than himself.

And lovers of the Second Amendment should contemplate the fact that when the Second Amendment was passed, Mr. Wincheser, Smith, Wesson, and Colt had not yet introduced mass manufacture to the munitions and armament industries, so that the only hand guns and mass- murdering type weapons were pretty much entirely in the hands of the 1% and the upper servant classes, plus the odd farmer here and there. Landowners almost to the last man (or lady).

The American troops at Valley Forge were mostly armed with farm implements and frozen toes which they could throw at the enemy since they didn't have any boots and their feet were wrapped in strips torn off of their shirts.

The Founding Fathers did not mean for every Tom, Dick and Harry to have an arsenel that would impress the King of England.

They meant to have an arsenel of their own that would keep the slaves, tenants, indentured servants and riff-riff in their places so gentlemen, rich farmers, and patricians could get on with the serious business of enslaving the blacks, slaughtering the reds, converting and looting the yellows of the wealth of the Orient, and pissing on anybody below the honourary rank of Captain who made the mistake of thinking they they are "white". They believed in "well-regulated militias" only because they were the Captains, Lieutenants, Colonels, and Generals who did the regulating and who could call up the militias to defend the interests or whims of their masters.

The Whigs and the Tories in those days had their own free market approach to National Defence. They bought and sold the officer ranks, made good to massive incomes to re-pay the high prices and operating cost of regiments and armies from whatever they could steal in the way of loot from enemies or the populace, or in logistic manipulation of materiel from gubbermint contracts. They were prepared to revolt against their Sovereign the American People as readily as they had cast off the Metropolitan elites and Crown.

In short, they were very much like modern Republicans and Democrats, except that they could be hanged for breaking the laws against piracy and plunder, which they had not yet had the leisure to re-write the laws and Constituton to make their grand theft and petty peculations legal.

Remember their motto: We must all hang together or we shall assuredly hang separately.
 
2013-05-05 06:28:10 PM

redsquid: [farm5.staticflickr.com image 240x180]

[s3files.core77.com image 468x597]

The above items were produced with consumer level 3D printers. Look at how rough and imperfect the surface is. This technology will not produce the tolerances necessary for a working gun. This isn't even considering the weakness of the thermoplastic used in the lower end 3D printers. Fear exists in the absence of knowledge.


so that means New Zealand is BETTER than Australia!
 
2013-05-05 06:29:00 PM
So I just have to make plastic bullets, plastic shell casings, and plastic primers and we'll be set.
 
2013-05-05 06:29:09 PM
I dont know if this has pointed out yet, but aren't 3D printers, like, not cheap? And isn't the manufacturing process rather time consuming? Because I'm sure criminals are going to go into this idea.
 
2013-05-05 06:29:21 PM

lewismarktwo: It's ok guys... bullets are still made out of metal.


Maybe assassins are planning to bludgeon their targets to death.
 
2013-05-05 06:29:38 PM
When homemade dildos are banned, then only criminals will own homemade dildos.
 
2013-05-05 06:30:07 PM

jjorsett: BarkingUnicorn: Antivirus companies can play their game in this market and make some money.  Add software to 3D printers that checks each file against a signature database and rejects files that print guns.  Charge subscription fees for updates.  Same business model they follow now.  Make it mandatory for all 3D printers and buyers.

Of course signature-based protection isn't complete.  For an additional fee, we can give you behavioral and heuristic real-time protection against uncatalogued "threats."  Anything that might be a gun part will be rejected.

People are reprogramming 3D printers with their own software, and some are replacing the standard electronics with their own custom stuff. Some are even building their own 3D printers from scratch.  You could try putting all kinds of requirements on manufacturers, but anyone with the desire and savvy to 3D print a gun isn't going to find any of that much of an obstacle.


I think you just narrowed the problematic population down to one person.
 
2013-05-05 06:30:33 PM

redsquid: [farm5.staticflickr.com image 240x180]

[s3files.core77.com image 468x597]

The above items were produced with consumer level 3D printers. Look at how rough and imperfect the surface is. This technology will not produce the tolerances necessary for a working gun.


Why do you refuse to accept the fact that it already has?

Or do you just think this is all one big hoax?
 
2013-05-05 06:30:43 PM

brantgoose: At the moment, 3-d printer guns are at the "explode in your hands" stage of development.

Mind, you, it's only been a few centuries since the metal originals were more prone to killing or maiming the musketeer or duellist than whatever the gun might have been pointed towards.

The Napoleonic Wars are said to be the first war in which more troops were killed on the battlefield than died of the pox and other diseases. It was also the first war in which guns were better than long bows and in which a man had a greater chance of killing an enemy or fellow soldier with a gun rather than himself.

And lovers of the Second Amendment should contemplate the fact that when the Second Amendment was passed, Mr. Wincheser, Smith, Wesson, and Colt had not yet introduced mass manufacture to the munitions and armament industries, so that the only hand guns and mass- murdering type weapons were pretty much entirely in the hands of the 1% and the upper servant classes, plus the odd farmer here and there. Landowners almost to the last man (or lady).

The American troops at Valley Forge were mostly armed with farm implements and frozen toes which they could throw at the enemy since they didn't have any boots and their feet were wrapped in strips torn off of their shirts.

The Founding Fathers did not mean for every Tom, Dick and Harry to have an arsenel that would impress the King of England.

They meant to have an arsenel of their own that would keep the slaves, tenants, indentured servants and riff-riff in their places so gentlemen, rich farmers, and patricians could get on with the serious business of enslaving the blacks, slaughtering the reds, converting and looting the yellows of the wealth of the Orient, and pissing on anybody below the honourary rank of Captain who made the mistake of thinking they they are "white". They believed in "well-regulated militias" only because they were the Captains, Lieutenants, Colonels, and Generals who did the regulating and who could call up the ...


what's an arsenel ?
 
2013-05-05 06:30:52 PM
I have never worked for the TSA, but unless they are using plastic bullets, I think they can still detect them.
 
2013-05-05 06:31:05 PM

utah dude: i just spent good money for A METAL gun that will last me my lifetime. why anyone would want a gun made outta polylactate or what-not - - maybe as the positive for a casting process using a real material ?


Personally, I would rather have a pizza oven.
 
2013-05-05 06:31:07 PM

redmid17: /yes non-metal guns are illegal


Damn that RINO Reagan!  He raised taxes too, you know!

/not to mention the immigrant amnesty stuff
 
2013-05-05 06:32:47 PM

lewismarktwo: Imagine if instead of wanting to keep people from printing 'untraceable' 'undetectable' guns we might concentrate on wanting to keep people from wanting to use 'untraceable' 'undetectable' guns.

Also, no religion too.


You're a dreamer
 
2013-05-05 06:33:52 PM

utah dude: what's an arsenel ?


Seriously? Nitpicking spelling? On Fark?

We do need a right to keep and bear arms--to protect ourselves from the tyranny of Grammar Nazis like you!

(for the record, I'm aware that was an epically bad pun)
 
2013-05-05 06:34:19 PM

Molavian: So I just have to make plastic bullets, plastic shell casings, and plastic primers and we'll be set.


They actually have plastic shell casings.  They work fairly well, iirc, depending on the type of round in question.
 
2013-05-05 06:34:49 PM
Sure, someone can make an all-plastic AK-47 that can be buried in the backyard along with canisters of silver nickels and MREs but you have to remember the kind of person that would buy a 3D printer is also the kind of person that would have to load it down with so many useless after market parts like eight laser sights and a bayonet on both ends that it would be incapable of firing.
 
2013-05-05 06:35:43 PM

RexTalionis: untaken_name: RexTalionis: Considering that these printed guns also get destroyed after a few shots fired, they're almost perfect assassination weapons.

They don't vanish, dude. They just stop shooting properly. You'd probably want something more reliable for a real assassination.

It's a weapon that is undetectable by metal detectors that can be printed in someone's garage where the weapon will change and destroy the ballistic fingerprints of the rounds every time they fire, and will eventually be completely inoperative and can be melted down easily.


It is not undetectable. Certain gun parts will always need to be made from metal, most notably the firing pin and the barrel. Other materials can't stand up to the intense pressure and temperature.
 
2013-05-05 06:35:50 PM
I'm confused. Does this guy actually think that if he gets 'blueprints' for replicating a plastic weapon banned... that will be the end of it? That it would be impossible for anyone with a modicum of drafting and engineering skills to draw up something similar?

I can see it now. A black market for printing schematics passed along by nefarious criminal types on flash drives.

Right.
 
IPS
2013-05-05 06:35:56 PM
Oh what will the poor, poor, gun manufacturers do when everyone can just make their own.

Any idea on how long it will before gun mfg'ers come out against this to preserve themselves?

And what about the NRA, this is essentially what they've always lobbied for, arms for everyone. They're going to be all for it right?
 
2013-05-05 06:36:12 PM

SockMonkeyHolocaust: Sure, someone can make an all-plastic AK-47 that can be buried in the backyard along with canisters of silver nickels and MREs but you have to remember the kind of person that would buy a 3D printer is also the kind of person that would have to load it down with so many useless after market parts like eight laser sights and a bayonet on both ends that it would be incapable of firing.


www.etymoticdefense.com

The future is here.
 
Rat
2013-05-05 06:36:52 PM
Aren't the boolits inside still made of metal???  And, if anyone actually watched the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DconsfGsXyA guys video, the upper is still made of metal.

© I swear, everything on the interweb is true
 
2013-05-05 06:37:37 PM
brownribbon:

It is not undetectable. Certain gun parts will always need to be made from metal, most notably the firing pin and the barrel. Other materials can't stand up to the intense pressure and temperature.

Again, the only metal, non-printed part on this gun is a common hardware store nail that is used as a firing pin. The barrel is plastic.
 
2013-05-05 06:38:18 PM

Southern100: redsquid: [farm5.staticflickr.com image 240x180]

[s3files.core77.com image 468x597]

The above items were produced with consumer level 3D printers. Look at how rough and imperfect the surface is. This technology will not produce the tolerances necessary for a working gun.

Why do you refuse to accept the fact that it already has?

Or do you just think this is all one big hoax?


I'm quite aware of a few AWs using industrial 3D technology to produce very unreliable guns. What I'm saying is that it's not really accessible to the criminal element and won't be any time soon. Yes you can make a lower receiver or a basic pistol with a high end industrial 3D printer. For the price of that printer you can get cases of reliable black market weapons. It is not a viable threat to anyone.
It's like holding up a copy of Playboy and saying it could be replicated on a home printer.
 
2013-05-05 06:38:59 PM
Dimensio:
How would an individual smuggle ammunition onto a flight?

I would imagine you could hide a few bullets in something small, common, and benign that the x-ray doesn't penetrate, but I don't know much about airport x-ray machines.
 
2013-05-05 06:39:14 PM

untaken_name: SockMonkeyHolocaust: Sure, someone can make an all-plastic AK-47 that can be buried in the backyard along with canisters of silver nickels and MREs but you have to remember the kind of person that would buy a 3D printer is also the kind of person that would have to load it down with so many useless after market parts like eight laser sights and a bayonet on both ends that it would be incapable of firing.

[www.etymoticdefense.com image 523x600]

The future is here.


I worked at a comic book store with a gun nut that used to bring his AR-15 that had a bunch of crap on it like that in and clean it in the back. The day he bought a grenade launcher for it was the happiest day of his life. I bet he has a 3D printer now and is happily bootlegging Games Workshop models while day dreaming about the working bolt pistol he's going to make.
 
2013-05-05 06:39:23 PM

Rat: Aren't the boolits inside still made of metal???  And, if anyone actually watched the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DconsfGsXyA guys video, the upper is still made of metal.

© I swear, everything on the interweb is true


That's the rifle, which does still need a metal receiver.   The gun in this article is a handgun, and is entirely plastic.
 
2013-05-05 06:40:12 PM

Southern100: redsquid: [farm5.staticflickr.com image 240x180]

[s3files.core77.com image 468x597]

The above items were produced with consumer level 3D printers. Look at how rough and imperfect the surface is. This technology will not produce the tolerances necessary for a working gun.

Why do you refuse to accept the fact that it already has?

Or do you just think this is all one big hoax?


By "working gun" he means a gun that you can take to the range and fire repeatedly and rely on in the case or a home invasion.

Unfortunately, but the real-world definition of the term, the only thing a working gun needs to do is fire a bullet.  Once.

And for most pissed-off-in-the-heat-of-the-moment people, once is all they need.
 
2013-05-05 06:41:30 PM
I'm not sure I would want to be near it if it was fired, it may survive the first, but I'm not so sure about the second

/also for the design of that gun you could just make it out of ABS block, or regular injection molding, and it may make 2 shots before I want to be elsewhere

/still would only shoot one if it were in a mythbusters style rig where I was behind some sort of safety shield
 
2013-05-05 06:41:39 PM

bugontherug: utah dude: what's an arsenel ?

Seriously? Nitpicking spelling? On Fark?

We do need a right to keep and bear arms--to protect ourselves from the tyranny of Grammar Nazis like you!

(for the record, I'm aware that was an epically bad pun)


the rest of your post was good?
 
2013-05-05 06:42:27 PM

RexTalionis: untaken_name: RexTalionis: Considering that these printed guns also get destroyed after a few shots fired, they're almost perfect assassination weapons.

They don't vanish, dude. They just stop shooting properly. You'd probably want something more reliable for a real assassination.

It's a weapon that is undetectable by metal detectors that can be printed in someone's garage where the weapon will change and destroy the ballistic fingerprints of the rounds every time they fire, and will eventually be completely inoperative and can be melted down easily.


The gun may shatter at the crime scene and fall to the ground for investigators to piece together later. Also, it wouldn't be too hard to track 3D printer sales, or the materials the gun is made out of. It's a lot more evidence than police would have had if you had used an actual gun and taken it with you, to destroy later.

Also, if you're going to sneak a pistol into a high security event to perform an assassination, you're likely not planning on leaving anyways, right? Secret Service or the local security will be on you immediately. The goal is to get in, not to get out. That would be the only argument for the gun. They won't need to match ballistics. They will have you, and the fragments of your gun.
 
2013-05-05 06:42:47 PM

Tellingthem: "Now anyone, a terrorist, someone who is mentally ill, a spousal abuser, a felon, can essentially open a gun factory in their garage," he said. "It must be stopped."


It's too late. As soon as someone uploads the files online you are already too late. You can ban the guns, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the guns, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until hand held lasers become more powerful. We will then have untraceable phasers. No need to worry about bullets or noise suppression. Just a click and you can kill someone.


you can build a gun of slightly lesser quality from crap found at the hardware store

/damnit I'm not going to make one
//no really
 
2013-05-05 06:43:44 PM
What the muzzle velocity on this thing?  My first instinct is that a plastic barrel is going to be nearly useless, and anything fired from this gun will have trouble even penetrating skin.
 
Rat
2013-05-05 06:43:57 PM

Southern100: Rat: Aren't the boolits inside still made of metal???  And, if anyone actually watched the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DconsfGsXyA guys video, the upper is still made of metal.

© I swear, everything on the interweb is true

That's the rifle, which does still need a metal receiver.   The gun in this article is a handgun, and is entirely plastic.


So thats a gun in that photo?  Ok, its not evil and black, so I was confused!  It looks all broke too.

© that being said, I do like the new wave of carbon fiber lowers I've been seeing recently.
 
2013-05-05 06:44:25 PM

redsquid: [farm5.staticflickr.com image 240x180]

[s3files.core77.com image 468x597]

The above items were produced with consumer level 3D printers. Look at how rough and imperfect the surface is. This technology will not produce the tolerances necessary for a working gun. This isn't even considering the weakness of the thermoplastic used in the lower end 3D printers. Fear exists in the absence of knowledge.


i.imgur.com
Yes, look at the extreme precision of the the tooling on this firearm, such tolerances far beyond anything a machine could do!
 
2013-05-05 06:44:41 PM

Molavian: So I just have to make plastic bullets, plastic shell casings, and plastic primers and we'll be set.


Actually one of the first 'plastic' materials.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celluloid

/probably work better without the camphor
 
2013-05-05 06:45:32 PM

Fish in a Barrel: What the muzzle velocity on this thing? My first instinct is that a plastic barrel is going to be nearly useless, and anything fired from this gun will have trouble even penetrating skin.


It shoots through schools.
 
2013-05-05 06:46:52 PM

redsquid: For the price of that printer you can get cases of reliable black market weapons


That may or may not be a justifiable argument. For the price of that printer, you can also print *unlimited* weapons (IE, as many as you want) for the cost of the material used to make them.

A better question would be, is there a criminal element that could use this type of technology? Certainly not your average street thug.. but something like gang warfare, where you need to supply weapons to all of your gang members that are completely untraceable? Possibly.
 
2013-05-05 06:50:04 PM

vadum: I have never worked for the TSA, but unless they are using plastic bullets, I think they can still detect them.


I have invented this very hard but non-metallic material.

I think I'll call it....'glass'

ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2013-05-05 06:51:06 PM
it's sad that so many people here live in such utter fear that they think its best to ban things they don't like and cripple technological advancement because they dont trust their own neighbors to not be psychotic murderers. how you all make it to the toilet in the middle of the night is mind boggleing.

1. banning things is not a cure.
2. fearmongering technologies is not productive.
3. some humans will do horrible things while the majority won't.

if you can't accept #3 and demand #1 & #2 then either shut up or just lay down and die because you let the terrorists win and you have nothing productive or meaningful to contribute to the advancement of humanity anymore.
 
2013-05-05 06:52:47 PM

jayphat: I dont know if this has pointed out yet, but aren't 3D printers, like, not cheap? And isn't the manufacturing process rather time consuming? Because I'm sure criminals are going to go into this idea.


I hate to use the word 'criminal', but people that commit crimes with guns are the type of people that would rather buy a $2 hamburger than cook one themselves.  They're going to either buy or steal guns, not spend hours and hours figuring out how to make one with a 3D printer, not to mention obtain all the other parts that you can't make out of plastic.
 
2013-05-05 06:53:34 PM

Southern100: redsquid: For the price of that printer you can get cases of reliable black market weapons

That may or may not be a justifiable argument. For the price of that printer, you can also print *unlimited* weapons (IE, as many as you want) for the cost of the material used to make them.

A better question would be, is there a criminal element that could use this type of technology? Certainly not your average street thug.. but something like gang warfare, where you need to supply weapons to all of your gang members that are completely untraceable? Possibly.


Oh, are we going to pretend it is impossible to track 3D printer sales by speaking to the small handful of manufacturers in existence?
 
2013-05-05 06:53:39 PM

GUTSU: [i.imgur.com image 577x428]

Yes, look at the extreme precision of the the tooling on this firearm, such tolerances far beyond anything a machine could do!


I would be scared to death to pull the "trigger" on that monstrosity. :)
 
2013-05-05 06:53:52 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: vadum: I have never worked for the TSA, but unless they are using plastic bullets, I think they can still detect them.

I have invented this very hard but non-metallic material.

I think I'll call it....'glass'

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 160x160]


I saw a guy shoot one of those out of a 12gauge, it dented a steel plate before exploding into a million pieces.
 
2013-05-05 06:53:54 PM
How is the anti-gun crowd this clueless?  If you tried to fire this, the chamber would EXPLODE because it's made of farking PLASTIC.  Real gun barrels are made of chromoly steel, and that's done for a very good reason.  You MIGHT be able to get away with aluminum if it's a .22 or something, but plastic doesn't have anywhere near the required tensile strength.


assets.nydailynews.com
 
2013-05-05 06:55:02 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Antivirus companies can play their game in this market and make some money.  Add software to 3D printers that checks each file against a signature database and rejects files that print guns.  Charge subscription fees for updates.  Same business model they follow now.  Make it mandatory for all 3D printers and buyers.

Of course signature-based protection isn't complete.  For an additional fee, we can give you behavioral and heuristic real-time protection against uncatalogued "threats."  Anything that might be a gun part will be rejected.


who the fark would buy a printer which was only able to print certain approved patterns??
LOLOLOLOLOLL
FARK THAT shiat

esp since most people buying these printers will be printing custom made patterns. home made or what not.
the whole idea is silly
 
2013-05-05 06:56:18 PM

GUTSU: redsquid: [farm5.staticflickr.com image 240x180]

[s3files.core77.com image 468x597]

The above items were produced with consumer level 3D printers. Look at how rough and imperfect the surface is. This technology will not produce the tolerances necessary for a working gun. This isn't even considering the weakness of the thermoplastic used in the lower end 3D printers. Fear exists in the absence of knowledge.

[i.imgur.com image 577x428]
Yes, look at the extreme precision of the the tooling on this firearm, such tolerances far beyond anything a machine could do!


Metal pipe is a lot more of a precisely milled material than thermo plastic. It's not just about tolerance. The barrel has to contain a great amount of force. The barrel also has to closely conform to the shape of the projectile to create a seal to propel the projectile out of the barrel with sufficient force to actually do damage. Bullet don't just spit a piece of lead out one end. I was firing an antique breach loading 22. rifle one time and the breach cracked on firing allowing the gas to escape and the lead actually got stuck in the barrel. (I'm really lucky I didn't lose an eye or worse!)
I'm not saying it's not possible to make a 3D printed gun, it's just not economically feasible for the terrorist and criminal elements.
 
2013-05-05 06:56:50 PM

gibbon1: I hate to use the word 'criminal', but people that commit crimes with guns are the type of people that would rather buy a $2 hamburger than cook one themselves. They're going to either buy or steal guns, not spend hours and hours figuring out how to make one with a 3D printer, not to mention obtain all the other parts that you can't make out of plastic.


Haha, next your going to point out that the guns that are used to commit most crimes are cheapie almost-all-plastic Saturday night specials they bought off a straw buyer for $50 or stolen from idiots who can't be bothered to lock them up anyway.
 
2013-05-05 06:57:03 PM
It's been 19 years since the last time someone trolled the Democrats this good. Charles Schumer and the Usual Suspects swallowed the hook back then too. http://www.nytimes.com/1994/12/28/us/bill-planned-to-ban-new-bullets. h tml

Nothing stops a charging Rhino!
s24.postimg.org
 
2013-05-05 06:57:45 PM

Molavian: So I just have to make plastic bullets, plastic shell casings, and plastic primers and we'll be set.


Plastic casing, ceramic bullet and firing pin. If your average metal detector can pick up the tiny primer that ignites the cartridge, I'd be pretty damned surprised.
 
2013-05-05 06:57:47 PM

dave2198: Oh, are we going to pretend it is impossible to track 3D printer sales by speaking to the small handful of manufacturers in existence?


But when 3D  printers begin to print themselves?
 
2013-05-05 06:58:08 PM

serial_crusher: Impossible to detect?  I thought stuff like this was why they moved airports to backscatter machines instead of metal detectors?


Until someone makes a lethal bullet that isn't made of some kind metal, it's less of an issue than you might think.
 
2013-05-05 06:59:14 PM

Dimensio: How would an individual smuggle ammunition onto a flight?


inside fake batteries ?
LOL
 
2013-05-05 07:00:20 PM
we should make guns more dangerous so people "accidentally" shoot themselves more.
 
2013-05-05 07:00:21 PM

mike_the_engineer: How is the anti-gun crowd this clueless?  If you tried to fire this, the chamber would EXPLODE because it's made of farking PLASTIC.  Real gun barrels are made of chromoly steel, and that's done for a very good reason.  You MIGHT be able to get away with aluminum if it's a .22 or something, but plastic doesn't have anywhere near the required tensile strength.


[assets.nydailynews.com image 635x422]


You can fashion a shotgun out of PVC if you wrap the barrel. I haven't made one myself, but I'd give one a fair chance of shooting off a shell successfully. Although with steel pipe you don't have to risk that.

I can only imagine what these idiots would do if they found out you can get a 3D printer that uses metal.
 
2013-05-05 07:00:36 PM

mike_the_engineer: How is the anti-gun crowd this clueless?  If you tried to fire this, the chamber would EXPLODE because it's made of farking PLASTIC.  Real gun barrels are made of chromoly steel, and that's done for a very good reason.  You MIGHT be able to get away with aluminum if it's a .22 or something, but plastic doesn't have anywhere near the required tensile strength.


[assets.nydailynews.com image 635x422]


You make the plastic thick enough you could get off a shot, I'm not sure the the gun in question has thick enough plastic
 
2013-05-05 07:01:01 PM

dave2198: Oh, are we going to pretend it is impossible to track 3D printer sales by speaking to the small handful of manufacturers in existence?


Staples (Office Supply store) is planning to start selling them The Cube 3-D Printer) in July for $1,299. Cash & Carry.

Whether that would work well enough to print one of these, I have no idea - but as time goes on, the technology will only get better, and the price will only get lower.

It will be impossible to track printer sales. Even now you can get them at a good computer swap meet.

Besides, even with the tens of thousands of printers already out there, what good will tracking sales do?
 
2013-05-05 07:01:16 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: vadum: I have never worked for the TSA, but unless they are using plastic bullets, I think they can still detect them.

I have invented this very hard but non-metallic material.

I think I'll call it....'glass'

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 160x160]


Sweet let me know when you figure out a way to propel it at high velocity without gun powder.
 
2013-05-05 07:01:46 PM

thisisyourbrainonFark: Damnit, LazyTown madness was supposed to accompany that minor picture.


www.myfacewhen.net
 
2013-05-05 07:02:36 PM

mike_the_engineer: How is the anti-gun crowd this clueless?  If you tried to fire this, the chamber would EXPLODE because it's made of farking PLASTIC.  Real gun barrels are made of chromoly steel, and that's done for a very good reason.  You MIGHT be able to get away with aluminum if it's a .22 or something, but plastic doesn't have anywhere near the required tensile strength.


[assets.nydailynews.com image 635x422]


I think you need to go to YouTube and search for "Defense Distributed" and watch the PLASTIC gun barrels fire bullets just fine.. including AK-47 style LR rifles.
 
2013-05-05 07:04:25 PM
Read up on Defense Distributed and the kid who runs it.  Aside from politicians, everyone i know who has watched this kid talk for 10 minutes has come away thinking that his ultra-libertarian anarchism is just the most annoyingly adorable thing ever.  He's that kid who takes your poly-psi class just so he can show all those indoctrinated liberal hippie sheeple what happens when they debate a true critical thinker.  He's a joke.  That's it.

The guns he makes are zip guns.  You could make something just as good with some second hand milling machines and a little skill.  His only innovation is that he's subtracting the skill component and substituting top of the line 3d printers for the garage sale tools.  If you should be scared of his future at all, be scared that today, anybody with a little engineering know-how and a solid week of free time could make anything Defense Distributed intends to make at some time in the indeterminate future.
 
2013-05-05 07:04:46 PM
Notice there is no video of someone firing the pistol. I wouldn't fire it. I saw a video of someone firing an AR15 with a printed  plastic receiver and it broke after three or four shots.

What round is it suppose to  fire? Until I see it fired I will assume it is bogus.
 
2013-05-05 07:04:56 PM
I haven't read this thread, so if this has been said, I'm sorry, but it might be worth repeating:

You can not build a working gun out of plastic and expect it to work.  Can Not Be Done.  Only someone with a limited to zero knowledge of how guns work would think that plastic guns are a threat.

When you load a gun and pull the trigger, you are pretty much creating an explosion within the gun controlled in such a way that the bullet portion of the round flies out of the barrel of the gun and the gas used to expel the projectile is recycled to eject the spent cartridge allowing a new round to be loaded into the chamber.  That is why guns are made out of metal, strong metal, so that when the explosion is created within the gun, the gun doesn't blow up in your hands.  Plastic just doesn't have the strength.  It's fear mongering, nothing more, to suggest that you can build a gun out of plastic.  And only an idiot with zero knowledge of how guns function would even suggest such a thing.
 
2013-05-05 07:06:54 PM

Southern100: redsquid: For the price of that printer you can get cases of reliable black market weapons

That may or may not be a justifiable argument. For the price of that printer, you can also print *unlimited* weapons (IE, as many as you want) for the cost of the material used to make them.

A better question would be, is there a criminal element that could use this type of technology? Certainly not your average street thug.. but something like gang warfare, where you need to supply weapons to all of your gang members that are completely untraceable? Possibly.


The tracability of weapons is not an infallible system. After changing hands several times during legal private sales or being stolen and fenced any weapon becomes untraceable. Criminals don't use registered weapons. The numbers will only lead to the last registered owner. There is the ballistic signature, but CSI has lead us to think that this is an infallible system. The patterns left by the lands and grooves of a barrel can be destroyed by striking bone, concrete or other obstacles. Even if a weapon can be tied to a crime any smart crook would have already gotten rid of it, so proving he pulled the trigger is a challenge.
 
2013-05-05 07:06:58 PM

Nuuu: Read up on Defense Distributed and the kid who runs it.  Aside from politicians, everyone i know who has watched this kid talk for 10 minutes has come away thinking that his ultra-libertarian anarchism is just the most annoyingly adorable thing ever.  He's that kid who takes your poly-psi class just so he can show all those indoctrinated liberal hippie sheeple what happens when they debate a true critical thinker.  He's a joke.  That's it.

The guns he makes are zip guns.  You could make something just as good with some second hand milling machines and a little skill.  His only innovation is that he's subtracting the skill component and substituting top of the line 3d printers for the garage sale tools.  If you should be scared of his future at all, be scared that today, anybody with a little engineering know-how and a solid week of free time could make anything Defense Distributed intends to make at some time in the indeterminate future.


see the stapler gun up thread, probably took a few hours at most to make
 
2013-05-05 07:07:19 PM

Great Janitor: I haven't read this thread, so if this has been said, I'm sorry, but it might be worth repeating:

You can not build a working gun out of plastic and expect it to work.  Can Not Be Done.  Only someone with a limited to zero knowledge of how guns work would think that plastic guns are a threat.

When you load a gun and pull the trigger, you are pretty much creating an explosion within the gun controlled in such a way that the bullet portion of the round flies out of the barrel of the gun and the gas used to expel the projectile is recycled to eject the spent cartridge allowing a new round to be loaded into the chamber.  That is why guns are made out of metal, strong metal, so that when the explosion is created within the gun, the gun doesn't blow up in your hands.  Plastic just doesn't have the strength.  It's fear mongering, nothing more, to suggest that you can build a gun out of plastic.  And only an idiot with zero knowledge of how guns function would even suggest such a thing.


Are you attempting to imply that the distinguished Senator Schumer is less than knowledgeable regarding firearms technology?

I suspect that you may next attempt to convince readers that Representative Carolyn McCarthy has attempted to ban firearm features without knowing what they actually are.
 
2013-05-05 07:07:33 PM

thenumber5: Rincewind53: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think).

good thing there "Plastic Gun" has the metal barrel


..until some bright boy makes  ceramic barrels.
 
2013-05-05 07:07:37 PM
Rincewind53


Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them? Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now? What difference does it make how I do so? Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

Key word here is plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think).

Which means they're already illegal and this is just more idiotic fear mongering. Don't forget the last time the dim's got on a later about "plastic guns" it was over a gun that did not exist.
 
2013-05-05 07:08:30 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: vadum: I have never worked for the TSA, but unless they are using plastic bullets, I think they can still detect them.

I have invented this very hard but non-metallic material.

I think I'll call it....'glass'

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 160x160]


I wonder how difficult it would be to make a glass bullet that didn't shatter upon firing.
 
2013-05-05 07:08:56 PM

namatad: BarkingUnicorn: Antivirus companies can play their game in this market and make some money.  Add software to 3D printers that checks each file against a signature database and rejects files that print guns.  Charge subscription fees for updates.  Same business model they follow now.  Make it mandatory for all 3D printers and buyers.

Of course signature-based protection isn't complete.  For an additional fee, we can give you behavioral and heuristic real-time protection against uncatalogued "threats."  Anything that might be a gun part will be rejected.

who the fark would buy a printer which was only able to print certain approved patterns??
LOLOLOLOLOLL
FARK THAT shiat

esp since most people buying these printers will be printing custom made patterns. home made or what not.
the whole idea is silly


Who would buy a computer that doesn't play Flash content?  People buy things for what things do, not for what they won't do.

Antivirus software sells pretty well without being perfect.  If it was mandatory, it would sell even better.  I wasn't talking about eliminating 3D printed guns; I was talking about making money off the perceived problem.
 
2013-05-05 07:10:27 PM

EngineerBob: thenumber5: Rincewind53: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think).

good thing there "Plastic Gun" has the metal barrel

..until some bright boy makes  ceramic barrels.


feasible, but I'd want to see some sort of extended testing on the barrel before I'd consider risking my life with one.
start with ceramic coated insides of a metal barrel (obviously final ID is the same as a conventional weapon of the same caliber)

/would be less likely to warp from heating, possibly lighter
//could also blow up in your face
 
2013-05-05 07:11:17 PM

Dimensio: Great Janitor: I haven't read this thread, so if this has been said, I'm sorry, but it might be worth repeating:

You can not build a working gun out of plastic and expect it to work.  Can Not Be Done.  Only someone with a limited to zero knowledge of how guns work would think that plastic guns are a threat.

When you load a gun and pull the trigger, you are pretty much creating an explosion within the gun controlled in such a way that the bullet portion of the round flies out of the barrel of the gun and the gas used to expel the projectile is recycled to eject the spent cartridge allowing a new round to be loaded into the chamber.  That is why guns are made out of metal, strong metal, so that when the explosion is created within the gun, the gun doesn't blow up in your hands.  Plastic just doesn't have the strength.  It's fear mongering, nothing more, to suggest that you can build a gun out of plastic.  And only an idiot with zero knowledge of how guns function would even suggest such a thing.

Are you attempting to imply that the distinguished Senator Schumer is less than knowledgeable regarding firearms technology?

I suspect that you may next attempt to convince readers that Representative Carolyn McCarthy has attempted to ban firearm features without knowing what they actually are.


I think you may already know that answer
 
2013-05-05 07:12:16 PM

Tellingthem: And just wait until hand held lasers become more powerful. We will then have untraceable phasers. No need to worry about bullets or noise suppression. Just a click and you can kill someone.


Keep waiting. There is a upper limit to the amount of rapidly releasable energy that you can squeeze into a object of a certain size. A laser powerful enough to do as much damages as a bullet at an equivalent range will require a large amount of joules, and barring antimatter or some other type of exotic energy storage, there is not reason to expect a handheld laser weapon anytime soon.
 
2013-05-05 07:14:16 PM

Dimensio: Great Janitor: I haven't read this thread, so if this has been said, I'm sorry, but it might be worth repeating:

You can not build a working gun out of plastic and expect it to work.  Can Not Be Done.  Only someone with a limited to zero knowledge of how guns work would think that plastic guns are a threat.

When you load a gun and pull the trigger, you are pretty much creating an explosion within the gun controlled in such a way that the bullet portion of the round flies out of the barrel of the gun and the gas used to expel the projectile is recycled to eject the spent cartridge allowing a new round to be loaded into the chamber.  That is why guns are made out of metal, strong metal, so that when the explosion is created within the gun, the gun doesn't blow up in your hands.  Plastic just doesn't have the strength.  It's fear mongering, nothing more, to suggest that you can build a gun out of plastic.  And only an idiot with zero knowledge of how guns function would even suggest such a thing.

Are you attempting to imply that the distinguished Senator Schumer is less than knowledgeable regarding firearms technology?

I suspect that you may next attempt to convince readers that Representative Carolyn McCarthy has attempted to ban firearm features without knowing what they actually are.


Do not ever talk about dear Chucky like that. He is a certified expert in every facet of American Culture.
 
2013-05-05 07:14:41 PM
I think it's great that y'all know so much about guns, but it looks like none of you really know much about plastics.

Some of them can take a lot of punishment, which is why we make bulletproof windows and helmets out of certain kinds.
 
2013-05-05 07:14:43 PM
loonatic112358: You make the plastic thick enough you could get off a shot, I'm not sure the the gun in question has thick enough plastic

I think the best case scenario would be a one-time-use .22 with a 50/50 chance of exploding in your hand.  And since the plastic is so flexible, the muzzle velocity would be significantly reduced.  I'd be surprised if it penetrated clothing.
 
2013-05-05 07:15:45 PM

poorjon: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

I think it's because they're printing the only part of the gun that actually has to be registered. You can buy all the barrels and triggers and hammers you want, but it's this hunk of stuff that makes it all work.


You don't have to register a frame or receiver that you make yourself.

I know someone who has a Colt Commander-style gun that is absolutely sterile (ie., no serial number, no manufacturer marks) because he took a rough frame casting and finished it himself.  It's perfectly legal and it doesn't have to be marked because he made it for himself.  If he were to sell it, he'd have to mark it, and he's joked that if he ever does the serial number will be FUATF001.

Also, for the purposes of being legal, you could make an almost completely plastic pistol as a muzzleloader, designed to use black powder or a black powder substitute (like Pyrodex pellets, which can be glued to the base of a bullet).  You wouldn't have to include any metal to make it visible because muzzleloaders are exempt from the laws.

Here is the law itself:

      (p)(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture,
    import, sell, ship, deliver, possess, transfer, or receive any
    firearm -
        (A) that, after removal of grips, stocks, and magazines, is not
      as detectable as the Security Exemplar, by walk-through metal
      detectors calibrated and operated to detect the Security
      Exemplar; or
        (B) any major component of which, when subjected to inspection
      by the types of x-ray machines commonly used at airports, does
      not generate an image that accurately depicts the shape of the
      component. Barium sulfate or other compounds may be used in the
      fabrication of the component.


Here is the legal definition of a firearm:

(3) The term "firearm" means (A) any weapon (including a starter
    gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to
    expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or
    receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm
    silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include
    an antique firearm.


Here is how "antique firearm" is defined:

(16) The term "antique firearm" means -
        (A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock,
      flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system)
      manufactured in or before 1898; or
        (B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if
      such replica -
          (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or
        conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
          (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition
        which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which
        is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial
        trade; or
        (C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle
      loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black
      powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition.
For
      purposes of this subparagraph, the term "antique firearm" shall
      not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or
      receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading
      weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily
      converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt,
      breechblock, or any combination thereof.


The way I read it, if you make it a muzzleloader, it's completely kosher to make it so that it won't be detected by a metal detector.
 
2013-05-05 07:16:56 PM
u could wrap a carbon-fiber/kelvar and resin or ceramic barrel / chamber on something approximating a lathe.
 
2013-05-05 07:19:02 PM

mike_the_engineer: loonatic112358: You make the plastic thick enough you could get off a shot, I'm not sure the the gun in question has thick enough plastic

I think the best case scenario would be a one-time-use .22 with a 50/50 chance of exploding in your hand.  And since the plastic is so flexible, the muzzle velocity would be significantly reduced.  I'd be surprised if it penetrated clothing.


as I said upthread, I'd only fire one from behind a blast shield
 
2013-05-05 07:19:15 PM
FTFA: "These guns are just as deadly as any you'd see in a gun store, impossible to detect, and can easily be made by anyone with an internet connection and a thousand dollars," the cost of a 3D plastic printer, Schumer said.


No, no they are not.  Plastic guns that function just like real guns are movie myths.  If you honestly believe that guns made of plastic are just as functional as ones manufactured by Glock out of steel, then you might as well tell the American public to hide in their refrigerators in the event of nuclear attack or in the event of alien invasion, writing a computer virus on an Apple laptop will save us all.
 
2013-05-05 07:20:29 PM

albuquerquehalsey: Tellingthem: And just wait until hand held lasers become more powerful. We will then have untraceable phasers. No need to worry about bullets or noise suppression. Just a click and you can kill someone.

Keep waiting. There is a upper limit to the amount of rapidly releasable energy that you can squeeze into a object of a certain size. A laser powerful enough to do as much damages as a bullet at an equivalent range will require a large amount of joules, and barring antimatter or some other type of exotic energy storage, there is not reason to expect a handheld laser weapon anytime soon.


"I have examined Man's wonderful inventions. And I tell you that in the arts of life man invents nothing; but in the arts of death he outdoes Nature herself, and produces by chemistry and machinery all the slaughter of plague, pestilence, and famine. The peasant I tempt today eats and drinks what was eaten and drunk by the peasants of ten thousand years ago; and the house he lives in has not altered as much in a thousand centuries as the fashion of a lady's bonnet in a score of weeks. But when he goes out to slay, he carries a marvel of mechanism that lets loose at the touch of his finger all the hidden molecular energies, and leaves the javelin, the arrow, the blowpipe of his fathers far behind. In the arts of peace Man is a bungler. I have seen his cotton factories and the like, with machinery that a greedy dog could have invented if it had wanted money instead of food. I know his clumsy typewriters and bungling locomotives and tedious bicycles: they are toys compared to the Maxim gun, the submarine torpedo boat. There is nothing in Man's industrial machinery but his greed and sloth: his heart is in his weapons."
-The Devil speaking in Don Juan in Hell, Act III of Man and Superman by George Bernard Shaw, 1902.
 
2013-05-05 07:21:02 PM

Southern100: I think you need to go to YouTube and search for "Defense Distributed" and watch the PLASTIC gun barrels fire bullets just fine.. including AK-47 style LR rifles.


I've seen them.  That's just a plastic stock and action.  The upper is still made of metal.  And even then, it fails after a few shots.
 
2013-05-05 07:23:13 PM

RexTalionis: Rincewind53: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think).

The 3D printed guns that Defense Distributed have a piece of metal inside (aside from a nail that is used as a firing pin) to make it detectable by metal detectors. However, no one who prints one of their guns will have to put the metal piece in it. Considering that these printed guns also get destroyed after a few shots fired, they're almost perfect assassination weapons.

There has to be way better control of these things.


No, there doesn't have to be a way. You might want there to be a way, but that doesn't mean there must.
 
2013-05-05 07:23:39 PM
BASIC ZIP GUN:

1. piece of 1/4" schedule 80 pipe about 12" long;

2. 1/4" pipe cap;

3. Drill 1/16" hole in center of cap;

4. clip 6d nail about 3/8" long for a firing pin;

5. Wrap the first 4" of the barrel in at least 10 layers of duct tape, so it won't blow your hand off if the gun explodes;

6. fabricate handle of wood and clapper from a piece of scrap metal and some strips of old inner tube.

If a silencer/sound reducer is desired, screw a 1/4" by 1" reducer into the barrel and add a piece of 1" pipe 3" or so long.  Cover the end of the silencer with a piece of old inner tube, and tape it airtight shut.

DO NOT assemble the weapon until you really need it, and also take it apart and throw the parts away one by one as soon as the weapon is used.

If a larger bore is required, use 3/8" pipe and .38 special ammo.  1/2" pipe and .45 cal ammo may also be used, but this is very dangerous and too much power for the gun in question.   For a shotgun, use 12 ga. shells and 3/4" inch pipe.

For more good recipes, download "U.S. Army Training Manual # 210: Improvised Weapons" available on your friendly local Innertubes.

Second Amendment types don't like me because I do not even own a gun, and I am fond of saying: "When the revolution comes, I can get all the weapons I need: just kill one police officer."
 
2013-05-05 07:23:43 PM

albuquerquehalsey: Tellingthem: And just wait until hand held lasers become more powerful. We will then have untraceable phasers. No need to worry about bullets or noise suppression. Just a click and you can kill someone.

Keep waiting. There is a upper limit to the amount of rapidly releasable energy that you can squeeze into a object of a certain size. A laser powerful enough to do as much damages as a bullet at an equivalent range will require a large amount of joules, and barring antimatter or some other type of exotic energy storage, there is not reason to expect a handheld laser weapon anytime soon.


Oh I know but things will get there someday. I think it would be pretty damn cool to have a phaser and would love to play with one. All it takes is time and the technology will advance. That is what I see with this kind of stuff. Not that right now a 3d gun is mostly a toy and nothing to be scared of. But in ten or 20 years who knows? I work in the art biz and I can already see how 3d printers can change the sculpture market. Why spend 20k on a limited edition bronze when you could print the same thing off at home with a proper scan. Plus you can scale it to whatever size you want. To me this is the next big advancement in my lifetime. Being able to print off objects at home. From art to weapons. It's fascinating.
 
2013-05-05 07:23:52 PM
People are forgetting that the point of making a 3d printed gun was not to mass produce them, it was to show that gun restriction, like the drug war, is a hopeless fight.
 
2013-05-05 07:24:03 PM
www.entertainmentearth.com
 
2013-05-05 07:24:49 PM

radarlove: I think it's great that y'all know so much about guns, but it looks like none of you really know much about plastics.

Some of them can take a lot of punishment, which is why we make bulletproof windows and helmets out of certain kinds.


First, bullet proof materials still take damage when hit with bullets.  I can put a bullet proof vest on, get shot and still face the chance of a broken rib or two and some internal damage from the impact of the bullet hitting the vest.

Second, bullet proof plastics can't resist the explosions that occur when you fire a gun, and that's assuming you can make an all plastic gun that can hit a bullet with enough force to fire a bullet.

Again, there is a reason why Glock makes their guns out of steel and not plastic.
 
2013-05-05 07:25:38 PM

radarlove: I think it's great that y'all know so much about guns, but it looks like none of you really know much about plastics.

Some of them can take a lot of punishment, which is why we make bulletproof windows and helmets out of certain kinds.


Bulletproof glass is typically layers of glass and plastics, not just plastic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet_proof_glass

helmets can crack from impact, between the exterior hard plastic and the interior foam your head usually won't
 
2013-05-05 07:26:10 PM
What 3D plastic criminals might look like:
images.mocpages.com
 
2013-05-05 07:26:17 PM

radarlove: I think it's great that y'all know so much about guns, but it looks like none of you really know much about plastics.

Some of them can take a lot of punishment, which is why we make bulletproof windows and helmets out of certain kinds.


The real issue here is one of state of the art vs. state of the shelf. While there are plastics able to withstand the forces of a bullet exploding and there are 3D printing technologies capable of using some of these plastics, they are not readily available to the average consumer. Consumer level 3D printer use lower strength thermo plastics and lack the resolution to make usable weapons and it will be quite a while until they do. Look at the capabilities of industrial publishers compared to what you can do with a consumer level printer. Now think of how long we've had desk top printers. There's a long slow road of progress before we will have consumer level 3D printers capable of printing weapons that pose a real threat to public safety.
 
2013-05-05 07:28:24 PM

Great Janitor: If you honestly believe that guns made of plastic are just as functional as ones manufactured by Glock out of steel, then you might as well tell the American public to hide in their refrigerators in the event of nuclear attack or in the event of alien invasion, writing a computer virus on an Apple laptop will save us all.


I don't think anyone in this thread is saying they're JUST as functional. They're single shot, for crying out loud - but functional for 2, 3, maybe even 4 shots? They're already done that. They're planning on releasing the video for the test firing on Monday.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/05/05/meet-the-libera to r-test-firing-the-worlds-first-fully-3d-printed-gun/

Couple of interesting points:

"Despite the explosion that just occurred inside of it, both the barrel and the body of the gun seem entirely unscathed. The verdict: it worked. The Liberator fired a standard .380 handgun round without visible damage"

"Wilson switched out the Liberator's barrel for a higher-charge 5.7×28 rifle cartridge. He and John retreated to a safe distance, and John pulled his yellow string again. This time the gun exploded,"


So no, I don't think you or I would currently want to test fire one outselves.. But this IS only version 1.0 :)
 
2013-05-05 07:30:59 PM

Great Janitor: radarlove: I think it's great that y'all know so much about guns, but it looks like none of you really know much about plastics.

Some of them can take a lot of punishment, which is why we make bulletproof windows and helmets out of certain kinds.

First, bullet proof materials still take damage when hit with bullets.  I can put a bullet proof vest on, get shot and still face the chance of a broken rib or two and some internal damage from the impact of the bullet hitting the vest.

Second, bullet proof plastics can't resist the explosions that occur when you fire a gun, and that's assuming you can make an all plastic gun that can hit a bullet with enough force to fire a bullet.

Again, there is a reason why Glock makes their guns out of steel and not plastic.


You can buy a very good plastic flare gun at any outboard motor store, it fires .410 shotgun shells and white phosphorus meteor charges much more damaging than any regular shotgun shell.
 
2013-05-05 07:31:31 PM

olddinosaur: Second Amendment types don't like me because I do not even own a gun, and I am fond of saying: "When the revolution comes, I can get all the weapons I need: just kill one police officer."


even if that police officer was your friend ? or brother ?
 
2013-05-05 07:31:37 PM

dittybopper: The way I read it, if you make it a muzzleloader, it's completely kosher to make it so that it won't be detected by a metal detector.


Thinking further, you could make several barrels that you could "preload" and just pop into the frame.  It would take you all of 3 seconds to do that, if you designed it right.  Another possible method is to make a "pepperbox" sort of arrangement so you have multiple shots without having to reload, or even something like the "harmonica gun".

Sure, they are crude by today's standards, but crude can also be effective.  If you can sneak something like that into a place where no one else has a gun, because you have to go through a metal detector, you've got a major advantage.

Since you can crank them out by the dozens, the "harmonica" or the barrel assembly of the pepperbox could be largely disposable.  You take a few loaded and capped barrel assemblies and you drop the used one, pop in the fresh one.  Since they'd be loaded at the muzzle and wouldn't use fixed ammo, they wouldn't be firearms under the legal definition, so you couldn't be charged with violating the ban on non-detectable firearms, because it's not legally a firearm.

The one fly in the ointment is the bullets.  They have to be made of metal, because plastic just isn't going to be effective enough.  Still, it would be easier to sneak them in as something that doesn't look like bullets (perhaps have them as beads on a necklace or something).
 
2013-05-05 07:32:15 PM

Southern100: Great Janitor: If you honestly believe that guns made of plastic are just as functional as ones manufactured by Glock out of steel, then you might as well tell the American public to hide in their refrigerators in the event of nuclear attack or in the event of alien invasion, writing a computer virus on an Apple laptop will save us all.

I don't think anyone in this thread is saying they're JUST as functional. They're single shot, for crying out loud - but functional for 2, 3, maybe even 4 shots? They're already done that. They're planning on releasing the video for the test firing on Monday.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/05/05/meet-the-libera to r-test-firing-the-worlds-first-fully-3d-printed-gun/

Couple of interesting points:

"Despite the explosion that just occurred inside of it, both the barrel and the body of the gun seem entirely unscathed. The verdict: it worked. The Liberator fired a standard .380 handgun round without visible damage"

"Wilson switched out the Liberator's barrel for a higher-charge 5.7×28 rifle cartridge. He and John retreated to a safe distance, and John pulled his yellow string again. This time the gun exploded,"

So no, I don't think you or I would currently want to test fire one outselves.. But this IS only version 1.0 :)


They tried a P90 round in it and it exploded? That's hella entertaining.
 
2013-05-05 07:33:56 PM

mike_the_engineer: Southern100: I think you need to go to YouTube and search for "Defense Distributed" and watch the PLASTIC gun barrels fire bullets just fine.. including AK-47 style LR rifles.

I've seen them.  That's just a plastic stock and action.  The upper is still made of metal.  And even then, it fails after a few shots.


Actually, their latest lower has lasted over 600 shots of .223 Remington.  They are getting better.

That's the thing:  It's a new technology, so they are going to fail at first.  That doesn't mean they won't succeed, and soon.
 
2013-05-05 07:34:05 PM

Great Janitor: FTFA: "These guns are just as deadly as any you'd see in a gun store,


if your gun store sells Taurus.
 
2013-05-05 07:35:32 PM

utah dude: olddinosaur: Second Amendment types don't like me because I do not even own a gun, and I am fond of saying: "When the revolution comes, I can get all the weapons I need: just kill one police officer."

even if that police officer was your friend ? or brother ?


I am socially acquainted with many police officers through the Patriot Movement, and their response always is: "Don't you understand, when the right time comes, most of the Police will switch sides?"

No, I do not know that.  I can hope, but in a total social breakdown, I believe the Police will turn feral and prey off the citizens, to whatever extent they are not doing so already. The definition of a police state is one where criminals run the government; any time I can't tell the difference between the cops and the crooks, I have to say we are mighty damn close.
 
2013-05-05 07:36:57 PM

Rincewind53: Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous


Yeah, but there's a flaw in your logic.  Bullets are made of metal.  So you'd have to walk through the metal detector with an empty gun.
 
2013-05-05 07:38:20 PM
I am pro-gun, but I still think Wayne LaPierre is a douche bag.  You anti-gun folks feel the same way about Schumer and Feinstein, right?
 
2013-05-05 07:38:29 PM
Yes, because someone can make it at home means it should be legal, just like meth, explosives and child porn.
 
2013-05-05 07:38:39 PM

mike_the_engineer: Rincewind53: Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous

Yeah, but there's a flaw in your logic.  Bullets are made of metal.  So you'd have to walk through the metal detector with an empty gun.


Aplastic bullet orplastic baton round (PBR) is a projectile fired from a specialised gun. Although designed as a non-lethal weapon they have still caused several deaths. They are generally used for (notably in). Plastic bullets were developed by theto replace their in an attempt to reduce fatalities. If misused they can still cause fatal injury.
 
2013-05-05 07:39:11 PM

radarlove: I think it's great that y'all know so much about guns, but it looks like none of you really know much about plastics.

Some of them can take a lot of punishment, which is why we make bulletproof windows and helmets out of certain kinds.


Which of these certain kinds of plastics are compatible with 3D laser manufacturing? Lexan? Not even. High-mod poly. Uh uh. Anything not clear that is light and bullet resistant is imbedded with spectra, kevlar or Dyn. Again... ain't happening.

Yes, we can make very tough plastics. We don't make them with 3D printer compatible resins. If you were serious about having a 'real' plastic gun, it would be much more effective to use the appropriate plastics in a subtractive machining process.
 
2013-05-05 07:39:17 PM

olddinosaur: Great Janitor: radarlove: I think it's great that y'all know so much about guns, but it looks like none of you really know much about plastics.

Some of them can take a lot of punishment, which is why we make bulletproof windows and helmets out of certain kinds.

First, bullet proof materials still take damage when hit with bullets.  I can put a bullet proof vest on, get shot and still face the chance of a broken rib or two and some internal damage from the impact of the bullet hitting the vest.

Second, bullet proof plastics can't resist the explosions that occur when you fire a gun, and that's assuming you can make an all plastic gun that can hit a bullet with enough force to fire a bullet.

Again, there is a reason why Glock makes their guns out of steel and not plastic.

You can buy a very good plastic flare gun at any outboard motor store, it fires .410 shotgun shells and white phosphorus meteor charges much more damaging than any regular shotgun shell.


The rounds fired in a flare gun have much less power than a real shotgun shell. Go buy a flare gun and put some squirrel shells in it. I dare you.
Not really. Don't do it.
 
2013-05-05 07:39:28 PM

olddinosaur: utah dude: olddinosaur: Second Amendment types don't like me because I do not even own a gun, and I am fond of saying: "When the revolution comes, I can get all the weapons I need: just kill one police officer."

even if that police officer was your friend ? or brother ?

I am socially acquainted with many police officers through the Patriot Movement, and their response always is: "Don't you understand, when the right time comes, most of the Police will switch sides?"

No, I do not know that.  I can hope, but in a total social breakdown, I believe the Police will turn feral and prey off the citizens, to whatever extent they are not doing so already. The definition of a police state is one where criminals run the government; any time I can't tell the difference between the cops and the crooks, I have to say we are mighty damn close.


dino i haven't see u post in at least 3 years. what happened?
 
2013-05-05 07:42:14 PM

bigbadideasinaction: ke meth,


if meth was legal i'd buy "Pfizer brand XR StereoSelect Methamphetamine with Vitamin B6" (tm)  and i'd not have to worry about home cookers.
 
2013-05-05 07:44:24 PM

rattchett: I am pro-gun, but I still think Wayne LaPierre is a douche bag.  You anti-gun folks feel the same way about Schumer and Feinstein, right?


I am a Libertarian and defend your right to bear arms, but yes some reasonable restrictions are in order, thanks to the innumerable shirtheads out there who make it hard on us defense types.  LaPierre is a paid shill, and so are Feinstein and the others.

Feinstein by the way carries a a gun in her purse, has done so ever since the Moscone/Milk murders catapulted her to national fame; prior to that she was an obscure S.F. City Council member.

She refuses to place her own body in physical danger, but refuses to sallow you the same right to defend yourself.
 
2013-05-05 07:46:36 PM

Thunderboy: Something tells me it would be a lot cheaper and easier to just buy a shiat .22 on the street than it would be to buy a Makerbot, supplies, ammunition (or are they printing that too?), download the schematic, print a test run, then print the actual gun.


What makes you think you're limited to a semiautomatic 3D printed gun?
 
2013-05-05 07:47:31 PM

mike_the_engineer: Rincewind53: Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous

Yeah, but there's a flaw in your logic.  Bullets are made of metal.  So you'd have to walk through the metal detector with an empty gun.


Do you really think it would be difficult to get something as small as a AAA battery through (or around) a metal detector? Heck, you could probably even put it inside a AAA battery and throw it in your camera.
 
2013-05-05 07:48:48 PM

redmid17: Vlad_the_Inaner: vadum: I have never worked for the TSA, but unless they are using plastic bullets, I think they can still detect them.

I have invented this very hard but non-metallic material.

I think I'll call it....'glass'

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 160x160]

Sweet let me know when you figure out a way to propel it at high velocity without gun powder.


you're right.  I'll start working on non-metallic gun power right away!

/done!
 
2013-05-05 07:49:15 PM

Tellingthem: Oh I know but things will get there someday.


they won't

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density
 
2013-05-05 07:50:26 PM
Diane Feinstein is sexy.

/just kidding.
 
2013-05-05 07:54:25 PM

utah dude: bigbadideasinaction: ke meth,

if meth was legal i'd buy "Pfizer brand XR StereoSelect Methamphetamine with Vitamin B6" (tm)  and i'd not have to worry about home cookers.


but you'd still have to get your B12 from Marmite
 
2013-05-05 07:55:01 PM

Southern100: Heck, you could probably even put it inside a AAA battery and throw it in your camera.


Right, I mean it's not like they x-ray your luggage at the airport or anything.
 
2013-05-05 07:55:30 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: redmid17: Vlad_the_Inaner: vadum: I have never worked for the TSA, but unless they are using plastic bullets, I think they can still detect them.

I have invented this very hard but non-metallic material.

I think I'll call it....'glass'

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 160x160]

Sweet let me know when you figure out a way to propel it at high velocity without gun powder.

you're right.  I'll start working on non-metallic gun power right away!

/done!


You don't know much about airport security do you? I'm guessing you also don't know what would happen to glass if it were subjected to the kind of pressure that would gun powder would produce.
 
2013-05-05 07:56:46 PM

untaken_name: RexTalionis: Considering that these printed guns also get destroyed after a few shots fired, they're almost perfect assassination weapons.

They don't vanish, dude. They just stop shooting properly. You'd probably want something more reliable for a real assassination.


A plastic gun used for an assassination only needs to be fired once or twice.  Since it's made of plastic it can easily be burned or melted beyond recognition.
 
2013-05-05 07:56:49 PM

albuquerquehalsey: Tellingthem: Oh I know but things will get there someday.

they won't

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density


Antimatter power-packs?

Nuclear batteries?

Berillium Spheres?
 
2013-05-05 07:58:13 PM

redmid17: Vlad_the_Inaner: redmid17: Vlad_the_Inaner: vadum: I have never worked for the TSA, but unless they are using plastic bullets, I think they can still detect them.

I have invented this very hard but non-metallic material.

I think I'll call it....'glass'

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 160x160]

Sweet let me know when you figure out a way to propel it at high velocity without gun powder.

you're right.  I'll start working on non-metallic gun power right away!

/done!

You don't know much about airport security do you? I'm guessing you also don't know what would happen to glass if it were subjected to the kind of pressure that would gun powder would produce.


Fly out of the barrel and hit it's target intact? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMTZTIdD0A8
 
2013-05-05 07:58:20 PM
redmid17 et al.: You don't know much about airport security do you? I'm guessing you also don't know what would happen to glass if it were subjected to the kind of pressure that would gun powder would produce.

gun powder already is non-metallic. the brass is the issue. you're gonna have to load spider silk ink into your printer to replicate the brass that holds modern rounds.
 
2013-05-05 07:58:40 PM
For the love of Christ, would you people stop banning every damn thing you see!?
Turning America into another miserable police state isn't supposed to be a farking race between politicians.

/Now You're banning things that barely even exist yet.
/and when they do, they will not even replace existing home made weapons.
/doesn't Schumer have things like poverty and corruption to solve?  He's got an awfully empty schedule to be worrying about crap like this.
 
2013-05-05 08:01:01 PM
Another growing trend in 3D printing is sex toys. Folks are sharing design files and printing up their own. Refer to the picture I posted up thread of the rough surface of home printed items. I predict more folks will be injured or even die from infections from impossible to clean dildos covered in nooks and crannies than from 3D printed weapons in the near future.
 
2013-05-05 08:01:06 PM

PaLarkin: A plastic gun used for an assassination only needs to be fired once or twice.  Since it's made of plastic it can easily be burned or melted beyond recognition.


a remington 700 in .308 with a leupould scope will run you about 1400 and will give you time to leave the grassy knoll.
 
2013-05-05 08:03:15 PM

vygramul: albuquerquehalsey: Tellingthem: Oh I know but things will get there someday.

they won't

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density

Antimatter power-packs?

Nuclear batteries?

Berillium Spheres?


I believe the folks a CERN are working on efficiently cooling and capturing antihydrogen without annihilating nearly 100% of what they make. iirc
 
2013-05-05 08:05:20 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: Marmite


no, i'd order it from a chinese chemical shop. like i currently do. both methylcobalamin and cyanocobalamin. and we're working on getting adenosylcobalamin, although it's $8000 a kilo or something.
 
2013-05-05 08:06:16 PM

utah dude: redmid17 et al.: You don't know much about airport security do you? I'm guessing you also don't know what would happen to glass if it were subjected to the kind of pressure that would gun powder would produce.

gun powder already is non-metallic. the brass is the issue. you're gonna have to load spider silk ink into your printer to replicate the brass that holds modern rounds.


Airport security looks for gun powder. That was my point.

GUTSU: redmid17: Vlad_the_Inaner: redmid17: Vlad_the_Inaner: vadum: I have never worked for the TSA, but unless they are using plastic bullets, I think they can still detect them.

I have invented this very hard but non-metallic material.

I think I'll call it....'glass'

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 160x160]

Sweet let me know when you figure out a way to propel it at high velocity without gun powder.

you're right.  I'll start working on non-metallic gun power right away!

/done!

You don't know much about airport security do you? I'm guessing you also don't know what would happen to glass if it were subjected to the kind of pressure that would gun powder would produce.

Fly out of the barrel and hit it's target intact? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMTZTIdD0A8


That is enlightening.
 
2013-05-05 08:07:37 PM

way south: /Now You're banning things that barely even exist yet.


we're trying to ban gay marriage but the liberals won't let us.
 
2013-05-05 08:11:19 PM

utah dude: PaLarkin: A plastic gun used for an assassination only needs to be fired once or twice.  Since it's made of plastic it can easily be burned or melted beyond recognition.

a remington 700 in .308 with a leupould scope will run you about 1400 and will give you time to leave the grassy knoll.


That's one helluva markup. I could get the same setup at Walmart for $800 easy.
 
2013-05-05 08:13:12 PM

jayphat: utah dude: PaLarkin: A plastic gun used for an assassination only needs to be fired once or twice.  Since it's made of plastic it can easily be burned or melted beyond recognition.

a remington 700 in .308 with a leupould scope will run you about 1400 and will give you time to leave the grassy knoll.

That's one helluva markup. I could get the same setup at Walmart for $800 easy.


not with those optics you won't
 
2013-05-05 08:14:49 PM

utah dude: Jon iz teh kewl: Marmite

no, i'd order it from a chinese chemical shop. like i currently do. both methylcobalamin and cyanocobalamin. and we're working on getting adenosylcobalamin, although it's $8000 a kilo or something.


why don't you order MDPV too (for your sexual health)
 
2013-05-05 08:15:32 PM
F Schumer.
 
2013-05-05 08:17:43 PM
Because, yeah, banning the sharing of information has worked so well in the past.

img105.imageshack.us
 
2013-05-05 08:19:20 PM

utah dude: jayphat: utah dude: PaLarkin: A plastic gun used for an assassination only needs to be fired once or twice.  Since it's made of plastic it can easily be burned or melted beyond recognition.

a remington 700 in .308 with a leupould scope will run you about 1400 and will give you time to leave the grassy knoll.

That's one helluva markup. I could get the same setup at Walmart for $800 easy.

not with those optics you won't


A $600 rifle and $200 scope?
 
2013-05-05 08:20:23 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: utah dude: Jon iz teh kewl: Marmite

no, i'd order it from a chinese chemical shop. like i currently do. both methylcobalamin and cyanocobalamin. and we're working on getting adenosylcobalamin, although it's $8000 a kilo or something.

why don't you order MDPV too (for your sexual health)


sexual health? isn't it better for chewing the faces off of guys in florida?

b12 is a supplement/vitamin, man, not something from erowid/lycaeum.
 
2013-05-05 08:20:58 PM

vygramul: Thunderboy: Something tells me it would be a lot cheaper and easier to just buy a shiat .22 on the street than it would be to buy a Makerbot, supplies, ammunition (or are they printing that too?), download the schematic, print a test run, then print the actual gun.

What makes you think you're limited to a semiautomatic 3D printed gun?


Huh?
 
2013-05-05 08:21:21 PM

utah dude: Jon iz teh kewl: utah dude: Jon iz teh kewl: Marmite

no, i'd order it from a chinese chemical shop. like i currently do. both methylcobalamin and cyanocobalamin. and we're working on getting adenosylcobalamin, although it's $8000 a kilo or something.

why don't you order MDPV too (for your sexual health)

sexual health? isn't it better for chewing the faces off of guys in florida?

b12 is a supplement/vitamin, man, not something from erowid/lycaeum.


it's a powder.  powders are ALL the same
 
2013-05-05 08:21:27 PM

jayphat: utah dude: jayphat: utah dude: PaLarkin: A plastic gun used for an assassination only needs to be fired once or twice.  Since it's made of plastic it can easily be burned or melted beyond recognition.

a remington 700 in .308 with a leupould scope will run you about 1400 and will give you time to leave the grassy knoll.

That's one helluva markup. I could get the same setup at Walmart for $800 easy.

not with those optics you won't

A $600 rifle and $200 scope?


i was thinking about 700 for both, brah.
 
2013-05-05 08:22:33 PM
sexual health? isn't it better for chewing the faces off of guys in florida?

b12 is a supplement/vitamin, man, not something from erowid/lycaeum.

it's a powder.  powders are ALL the same


except b12 is a bright red purple and everything else is 'free flowing white powder'.
 
2013-05-05 08:27:18 PM

utah dude: sexual health? isn't it better for chewing the faces off of guys in florida?

b12 is a supplement/vitamin, man, not something from erowid/lycaeum.

it's a powder.  powders are ALL the same

except b12 is a bright red purple and everything else is 'free flowing white powder'.


Dude, he's just a yapping little lap dog. He lacks the finesse to be a troll even.
 
2013-05-05 08:28:44 PM

redmid17: You don't know much about airport security do you? I'm guessing you also don't know what would happen to glass if it were subjected to the kind of pressure that would gun powder would produce.


Sure dude, its unpossible!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMTZTIdD0A8ith regard to plastic guns

/topic started on metal detectors with regard to plastic guns.  Yes, I do know how those work.  Talk about backscatter xrays, etc, came later in the thread
 
2013-05-05 08:29:28 PM

redsquid: The above items were produced with consumer level 3D printers. Look at how rough and imperfect the surface is. This technology will not produce the tolerances necessary for a working gun.


And here's what a hobbyist level machines are capable of. Note that complaining about surface finish is kinda useless without scale reference...

i.imm.io

4.bp.blogspot.com

=Smidge=
 
2013-05-05 08:30:52 PM

utah dude: jayphat: utah dude: jayphat: utah dude: PaLarkin: A plastic gun used for an assassination only needs to be fired once or twice.  Since it's made of plastic it can easily be burned or melted beyond recognition.

a remington 700 in .308 with a leupould scope will run you about 1400 and will give you time to leave the grassy knoll.

That's one helluva markup. I could get the same setup at Walmart for $800 easy.

not with those optics you won't

A $600 rifle and $200 scope?

i was thinking about 700 for both, brah.


That's what I was originally. Where is this guy getting 1400?
 
2013-05-05 08:31:34 PM
bah,
I wasted time trying to find a reference on civil was glass musket balls
 
2013-05-05 08:35:39 PM

Thunderboy: vygramul: Thunderboy: Something tells me it would be a lot cheaper and easier to just buy a shiat .22 on the street than it would be to buy a Makerbot, supplies, ammunition (or are they printing that too?), download the schematic, print a test run, then print the actual gun.

What makes you think you're limited to a semiautomatic 3D printed gun?

Huh?


It's probably a lot cheaper and easier to buy a Makerbot and supplies, download the schematic, print a test run, then print the actual gun (ammunition has to be bought for both, so you can't list that in only one column of expenses) than trying to buy an M-60 on the street.

That's the real threat. Al Qeda doesn't have to send or buy weapons here. Just get the guys here with some money, and they have everything they need.
 
2013-05-05 08:38:31 PM

Smidge204: redsquid: The above items were produced with consumer level 3D printers. Look at how rough and imperfect the surface is. This technology will not produce the tolerances necessary for a working gun.

And here's what a hobbyist level machines are capable of. Note that complaining about surface finish is kinda useless without scale reference...

[i.imm.io image 800x623]

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 850x637]

=Smidge=


Even if the plastic was strong enough to handle the forces (it isn't), that still wouldn't be smooth enough to create a good enough seal to achieve decent muzzle velocity. It's a non-issue and it will be for quite some time. This fear mongering just clouds the real issue of how 3D printing technologies will be implemented in the home. My prediction is that they won't become nearly as ubiquitous as paper printers, despite the boosterism from the enthusiasts.
 
2013-05-05 08:40:53 PM
The vast majority of the murders in this country are committed by semi-illiterate big city gangbangers who couldn't spell "3" let alone "3-D Plastic Printer."

We're supposed to be worried about this why, again, exactly?
 
2013-05-05 08:41:28 PM
Make a gun?  Seriously, most geeks with a 3D printer will probably try to make a real doll.
 
2013-05-05 08:44:50 PM

PsyLord: Make a gun?  Seriously, most geeks with a 3D printer will probably try to make a real doll.


Ah, the Kwame angle

didn't occur to me
 
2013-05-05 08:45:50 PM
As long as I can still print out my bitcoins.
 
2013-05-05 08:46:05 PM

redsquid: Even if the plastic was strong enough to handle the forces (it isn't)


It is.

redsquid: that still wouldn't be smooth enough to create a good enough seal to achieve decent muzzle velocity.


Depends on what you're trying to accomplish. I agree that nobody will be printing sniper or large caliber hunting rifles any time soon, but people have been making serviceable firearms out of common household items since practically the invention of firearms.

That said, I think these guys trying to grab all this media attention about printed guns need a beatdown. A**holes ruining it for everyone, IMHO. This is why we can't have nice things.

Nice job moving that goalpost, BTW.
=Smidge=
 
2013-05-05 08:46:32 PM
Listening to the left talk about guns is starting to become detrimental to our health
 
2013-05-05 08:54:31 PM
Never underestimate the ingenuity of a human being, why not use glass projectiles and a compressed gas propellant? Think paintball gun, but much higher pressures. No cartridge, no explosion, repeat fire and can be made entirely out of plastic with NO metal parts.

/would be totally legal too
//10 watt laser would be deadly as well
 
2013-05-05 08:54:45 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Antivirus companies can play their game in this market and make some money.  Add software to 3D printers that checks each file against a signature database and rejects files that print guns.  Charge subscription fees for updates.  Same business model they follow now.  Make it mandatory for all 3D printers and buyers.

Of course signature-based protection isn't complete.  For an additional fee, we can give you behavioral and heuristic real-time protection against uncatalogued "threats."  Anything that might be a gun part will be rejected.


What happens when they 3d print 3d printers that don't have that requirement, wise guy? Or if they 3d print those 3d printers they used to 3d print the 3d printers to print the 3d guns? Betcha didn't consider that.
 
2013-05-05 08:58:28 PM

GUTSU: redsquid: [farm5.staticflickr.com image 240x180]

[s3files.core77.com image 468x597]

The above items were produced with consumer level 3D printers. Look at how rough and imperfect the surface is. This technology will not produce the tolerances necessary for a working gun. This isn't even considering the weakness of the thermoplastic used in the lower end 3D printers. Fear exists in the absence of knowledge.

[i.imgur.com image 577x428]
Yes, look at the extreme precision of the the tooling on this firearm, such tolerances far beyond anything a machine could do!


Stop trying to educate the ignorant. This is the internet dammit.
 
2013-05-05 08:59:53 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: So why have regular metalworking tools been legal forever?  The general public has had access to metal working tools which can very easily make guns.  Illegal gun manufacturing has never been a significant issue in this country, so why is it now, when a device that can print shoes isn't far out of reach, that politicians suddenly care about illegally manufactured guns?

This isn't about guns, this is about manufacturers trying to keep you from being able to make your own products.


Yes. This is about distribution control in the nine gazillion bazillion dollar stuff market. All the rest: the guns (and all the other ooga booga that is sure to pop up in the coming years) is just a distraction to slow things down, so the People Who Make Stuff can try to figure out how to regain control before things really get out of hand.

Go through your house folks, and add up the retail value of everything small enough to hold in your hand: shoes, reading glasses, dishes... Do it, down to the last item, then multiply that number by seven or eight billion.

THAT'S what this is about. The rest is just entertainment.
 
2013-05-05 09:04:51 PM

Oh_Enough_Already: The vast majority of the murders in this country are committed by semi-illiterate big city gangbangers who couldn't spell "3" let alone "3-D Plastic Printer."

We're supposed to be worried about this why, again, exactly?


Actually, I didn't think about this, but you've got a good point...kinda.  We shouldn't be afraid of gangbangers printing out guns via a 3D printer.  It's kind of hard to look like a bad ass thug when your gun is plastic and just came out of the same printer your girlfriend used to print out a Bratz doll for her daughter.  It's really tough to imagine a thug saying "You stole your $500 gun, pish, I printed mine out for nothing.  I'm okay shooting some fools, but I will not steal a gun, and I won't pass a background check, so I printed mine off."
 
2013-05-05 09:07:18 PM

jjorsett: "Now anyone, a terrorist, someone who is mentally ill, a spousal abuser, a felon, can essentially open a gun factory in their garage," he said. "It must be stopped."

How, Chuck? You've got 3D printers, which you say you have no problem with, and you have digital design files, which are essentially abstractions out there in the ether. What are you going to make illegal that could possibly stop somebody from obtaining and putting these two things together if they want? You're trying to ban an idea, you dope.


He's a borderline senile old fool who has two, and only two, loyalties: keeping his butt in his congressional seat, and the power of control.

When something scares him, he has to a) make sure it doesn't threaten his power of control, and b) make sure it doesn't make him appear to not be "doing something" and therefore threaten his job.  The answer to both those problems is "make a law to ban it."

Will the law work?  Can the law work?  Is it constitutional?  Does he even understand what he's passing a law about?  Is it a good idea?

Who cares!  BAN IT.
 
2013-05-05 09:08:20 PM

Thunderboy: thenumber5:  good thing there "Plastic Gun" has the metal barrel

No, it doesn't.


yet it does, you can see it in the pics
 
2013-05-05 09:12:30 PM

thenumber5: Thunderboy: thenumber5:  good thing there "Plastic Gun" has the metal barrel

No, it doesn't.

yet it does, you can see it in the pics


It does not. The only metal parts are the firing pin and a steel slug to make it detectable and comply with federal law.
 
2013-05-05 09:14:17 PM

Smidge204: redsquid: Even if the plastic was strong enough to handle the forces (it isn't)

It is.


So the guy put a totally unnecessary metal barrel and firing pin in?  And printed it with a broken trigger on purpose?
 
2013-05-05 09:18:35 PM

vygramul: thenumber5: Thunderboy: thenumber5:  good thing there "Plastic Gun" has the metal barrel

No, it doesn't.

yet it does, you can see it in the pics

It does not. The only metal parts are the firing pin and a steel slug to make it detectable and comply with federal law.


The firing pin is metal not to comply with federal law, but so it would work.  The firing pin is what hits the bullet causing the explosion to propel the bullet.  I am not sure how you could build one out of plastic and expect it to work.
 
2013-05-05 09:18:57 PM

RickN99: Smidge204: redsquid: Even if the plastic was strong enough to handle the forces (it isn't)

It is.

So the guy put a totally unnecessary metal barrel and firing pin in?  And printed it with a broken trigger on purpose?


No metal barrel, according to other articles. Metal firing pin, yes. And a metal slug in order to comply with federal laws about detectability.
 
2013-05-05 09:20:00 PM

Great Janitor: vygramul: thenumber5: Thunderboy: thenumber5:  good thing there "Plastic Gun" has the metal barrel

No, it doesn't.

yet it does, you can see it in the pics

It does not. The only metal parts are the firing pin and a steel slug to make it detectable and comply with federal law.

The firing pin is metal not to comply with federal law, but so it would work.  The firing pin is what hits the bullet causing the explosion to propel the bullet.  I am not sure how you could build one out of plastic and expect it to work.


I understand, the steel slug is the thing that complies with federal law. The firing pin is metal because a plastic one is problematic at best, apparently.
 
2013-05-05 09:22:03 PM

Great Janitor: The firing pin is metal not to comply with federal law, but so it would work.  The firing pin is what hits the bullet causing the explosion to propel the bullet.  I am not sure how you could build one out of plastic and expect it to work.


Firing pins aren't very big.  Get a hard enough piece of plastic and there's no reason it shouldn't work.
 
2013-05-05 09:22:56 PM
You guys realize bullets set off metal detectors, right?

Plastic gun doesnt mean shiat
 
2013-05-05 09:26:35 PM

bugontherug: Tellingthem: "Now anyone, a terrorist, someone who is mentally ill, a spousal abuser, a felon, can essentially open a gun factory in their garage," he said. "It must be stopped."


It's too late. As soon as someone uploads the files online you are already too late. You can ban the guns, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the guns, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until hand held lasers become more powerful. We will then have untraceable phasers. No need to worry about bullets or noise suppression. Just a click and you can kill someone.

Same applies to child porn, of course. As soon as someone uploads the files online you are already too late. You can ban the child porn, you can ban the files, you can ban printing the child porn, but it is already too late. You can't stop the internet, you can only slow it down. And just wait until virtual reality makes child porn even more realistic...


3d printed children need to be protected from predators.
 
2013-05-05 09:26:40 PM

Alonjar: You guys realize bullets set off metal detectors, right?

Plastic gun doesnt mean shiat


Careful, you're pointing out the complete cluelessness of the people who write our laws.  That's dangerous ground you tread on, brother...
 
2013-05-05 09:27:10 PM
This guy is nothing more than an attention whore...

www.tailgatingideas.com
 
2013-05-05 09:27:18 PM
Lol they should just outlaw SCIENCE and TECHNOLOGY if they fear everything is only meant to destroy mankind!

Do they even know how fragile those 3D printed things are and how expensive it is to create something big and full of volume? Do they know that creating a 5 inch item already costs way too much than its worth? Ever bought a $30 one inch miniature of a cube?

What are 3D criminals going to do? Make weapons using ceramics and cheap plastic because using metal is too damn expensive?

What the hell, just outlaw pens as well! Pens can easily be used to stab eyes out! I've even heard of weapons being made out of toilet paper tubes, let's outlaw those as well! Oh crap, humans are naturally evil, let's all just commit a species suicide so as not to endanger each other anymore!
 
2013-05-05 09:33:12 PM

Lsherm: Great Janitor: The firing pin is metal not to comply with federal law, but so it would work.  The firing pin is what hits the bullet causing the explosion to propel the bullet.  I am not sure how you could build one out of plastic and expect it to work.

Firing pins aren't very big.  Get a hard enough piece of plastic and there's no reason it shouldn't work.


Looking at how bullets are assembled, you probably wouldn't need a metal firing pin to get one to fire.  The job of the firing pin is to get the bullet to fire.  The bullet is a bomb, the gun just controls the explosion.  Using a plastic fire pin would mean that you'd get one shot out of it before it melted.  A melted plastic firing pin could jam the gun.

In short, a plastic firing pin would be as useful as plastic brake pads for a F1 racecar.
 
2013-05-05 09:36:34 PM

jayphat: utah dude: jayphat: utah dude: jayphat: utah dude: PaLarkin: A plastic gun used for an assassination only needs to be fired once or twice.  Since it's made of plastic it can easily be burned or melted beyond recognition.

a remington 700 in .308 with a leupould scope will run you about 1400 and will give you time to leave the grassy knoll.

That's one helluva markup. I could get the same setup at Walmart for $800 easy.

not with those optics you won't

A $600 rifle and $200 scope?

i was thinking about 700 for both, brah.

That's what I was originally. Where is this guy getting 1400?


Leupold scopes are horribly overpriced.

Your average Remington 700 in .308 will run you around $700.  A really, really low-end Leupold scope will run you $400, but the ones you'd be likely to use in this setup are in the $1400-2200 range--and that's just for the scope.  The original $1400 price was probably for a well-used setup from a pawn shop desperate for a sale.

As soon as we decide that radio, television and the internet aren't afforded First Amendment protection because the 'technology didn't exist back then', then maybe I'll give a rat's ass about the idiots trying to limit the Second Amendment.
 
2013-05-05 09:42:13 PM

redsquid: [farm5.staticflickr.com image 240x180]

[s3files.core77.com image 468x597]

The above items were produced with consumer level 3D printers. Look at how rough and imperfect the surface is. This technology will not produce the tolerances necessary for a working gun. This isn't even considering the weakness of the thermoplastic used in the lower end 3D printers. Fear exists in the absence of knowledge.


I have made those points in these threads before. Its pointless. All the anti-gun folks know is that there is technology that theoretically someday could be used to make 3d printed guns...so that means by tuesday evening every kid in America will be 3d printing guns.

We both know that the first person to build and fire one will lose several fingers, maybe their whole hand, when the thing detonates under the breach pressure of the round. Sadly the anti-gun controlled media will make sure the story does hit the mainstream news.
 
2013-05-05 09:43:32 PM

Rincewind53: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think).


I'm old enough to remember the whole sky-is-falling panic when the rumors about "undetectable plastic" Glocks were about to come out.

Not to say that automatically invalidates any concerns about 3D-printed guns, but there is an element of "Boy Who Cried Wolf" to this story.
 
2013-05-05 09:48:09 PM
Interesting that this wiget is getting all the commotion... juast ahows lefties dont know squat about guns. This is 19th cent tech. here people. A good metal press is what... $200 used? Id bet there isnt a vo-tech machine shop class in this country that hasent turned out a few recievers during lunch.
 
2013-05-05 09:51:14 PM

Sultan Of Herf: redsquid: [farm5.staticflickr.com image 240x180]

[s3files.core77.com image 468x597]

The above items were produced with consumer level 3D printers. Look at how rough and imperfect the surface is. This technology will not produce the tolerances necessary for a working gun. This isn't even considering the weakness of the thermoplastic used in the lower end 3D printers. Fear exists in the absence of knowledge.

I have made those points in these threads before. Its pointless. All the anti-gun folks know is that there is technology that theoretically someday could be used to make 3d printed guns...so that means by tuesday evening every kid in America will be 3d printing guns.

We both know that the first person to build and fire one will lose several fingers, maybe their whole hand, when the thing detonates under the breach pressure of the round. Sadly the anti-gun controlled media will make sure the story does hit the mainstream news.


I can't wait to hear about the first jackass who builds an M-16 out of materials printed off a 3D printer, goes to fire it and it literally explodes in his face.
 
2013-05-05 09:51:59 PM

Southern100: Great Janitor: If you honestly believe that guns made of plastic are just as functional as ones manufactured by Glock out of steel, then you might as well tell the American public to hide in their refrigerators in the event of nuclear attack or in the event of alien invasion, writing a computer virus on an Apple laptop will save us all.

I don't think anyone in this thread is saying they're JUST as functional. They're single shot, for crying out loud - but functional for 2, 3, maybe even 4 shots? They're already done that. They're planning on releasing the video for the test firing on Monday.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/05/05/meet-the-libera to r-test-firing-the-worlds-first-fully-3d-printed-gun/

Couple of interesting points:

"Despite the explosion that just occurred inside of it, both the barrel and the body of the gun seem entirely unscathed. The verdict: it worked. The Liberator fired a standard .380 handgun round without visible damage"

"Wilson switched out the Liberator's barrel for a higher-charge 5.7×28 rifle cartridge. He and John retreated to a safe distance, and John pulled his yellow string again. This time the gun exploded,"

So no, I don't think you or I would currently want to test fire one outselves.. But this IS only version 1.0 :)


Interesting read. As an aside, though, 5.7x28 is not a rifle cartridge. It's a handgun round.
 
2013-05-05 09:54:00 PM

lewismarktwo: Imagine if instead of wanting to keep people from printing 'untraceable' 'undetectable' guns we might concentrate on wanting to keep people from wanting to use 'untraceable' 'undetectable' guns.

Also, no religion too.


I say that you're a dreamer.
 
2013-05-05 09:56:59 PM

part of the problem: Interesting that this wiget is getting all the commotion... juast ahows lefties dont know squat about guns.


Sure, look at all the righies mentioning the gun's historic namesake

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-05-05 10:06:14 PM

BarkingUnicorn: Antivirus companies can play their game in this market and make some money.  Add software to 3D printers that checks each file against a signature database and rejects files that print guns.  Charge subscription fees for updates.  Same business model they follow now.  Make it mandatory for all 3D printers and buyers.

Of course signature-based protection isn't complete.  For an additional fee, we can give you behavioral and heuristic real-time protection against uncatalogued "threats."  Anything that might be a gun part will be rejected.


Don't 2D printers already have recognition software inside them that prevent them for copying money?
 
2013-05-05 10:08:00 PM
Chucky Schumer is an idiot and a liar. This is as much of a threat as a gun carved out of oak. It might fire, once. He's also an idiot for thinking he can craft a law that would stop this developing technology.
 
2013-05-05 10:13:54 PM

Rincewind53: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think).


You might make a plastic gun that is invisible to metal detectors but what are they gonna fire? Bullets are made from metal and a single bullet WILL set off a detector. Use plastic bullets? The metal casing will set off the detector. Use pastic everything? Good luck firing that thing. You basicly have a mini hand shredding pipe bomb that won't hurt much besides your ability to open ketchup bottles.
You'd have better luck just making a PVC pipe bomb.
 
2013-05-05 10:14:05 PM

Harry_Seldon: This guy is nothing more than an attention whore...

[www.tailgatingideas.com image 254x300]


Who is she and where does she live so I can stalk her.
 
2013-05-05 10:17:27 PM

Smidge204: redsquid: Even if the plastic was strong enough to handle the forces (it isn't)

It is.

redsquid: that still wouldn't be smooth enough to create a good enough seal to achieve decent muzzle velocity.

Depends on what you're trying to accomplish. I agree that nobody will be printing sniper or large caliber hunting rifles any time soon, but people have been making serviceable firearms out of common household items since practically the invention of firearms.

That said, I think these guys trying to grab all this media attention about printed guns need a beatdown. A**holes ruining it for everyone, IMHO. This is why we can't have nice things.

Nice job moving that goalpost, BTW.
=Smidge=



Show me a consumer level 3D printer that can print a usable gun. Do it. Where's the video? I've been following this for a long time and it's just not possible. I'm not trying to get in a pissing match with you and if you can provide some reference to your claims go for it. I'm not talking about industrial equipment, consumer level printers.
 
2013-05-05 10:24:08 PM
What a plastic gun that is invisble to metal detectors looks like
www.aarannews.com
/according to the 1980's
 
2013-05-05 10:31:03 PM

MythDragon: Rincewind53: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think).

You might make a plastic gun that is invisible to metal detectors but what are they gonna fire? Bullets are made from metal and a single bullet WILL set off a detector. Use plastic bullets? The metal casing will set off the detector. Use pastic everything? Good luck firing that thing. You basicly have a mini hand shredding pipe bomb that won't hurt much besides your ability to open ketchup bottles.
You'd have better luck just making a PVC pipe bomb.

Bullets don't HAVE to be made of brass, look up caseless ammo. They are made of plastic and or ceramic, the actual projectiles don't even have to be made of a metal. Glass can withstand the forces.

So yes, it would be possible to sneak ammunition through security. It would be very expensive and would have to be custom made unless someone had a G11 or LSAT laying around.
 
2013-05-05 10:34:22 PM

ciberido: BarkingUnicorn: Antivirus companies can play their game in this market and make some money.  Add software to 3D printers that checks each file against a signature database and rejects files that print guns.  Charge subscription fees for updates.  Same business model they follow now.  Make it mandatory for all 3D printers and buyers.

Of course signature-based protection isn't complete.  For an additional fee, we can give you behavioral and heuristic real-time protection against uncatalogued "threats."  Anything that might be a gun part will be rejected.

Don't 2D printers already have recognition software inside them that prevent them for copying money?


Yes, if it's newer currency with certain anti-counterfeiting features.  In the U. S., I think printers, copiers, scanners, and currency have conspired since 2005.
 
2013-05-05 10:38:34 PM
You can make one without a 3d printer.
ckmaccom.startlogic.com
 
2013-05-05 10:38:45 PM
MythDragon: What a plastic porcelain gun that is invisble to metal detectors looks like
[www.aarannews.com image 600x453]
/according to the 1980's

Ah, the infamous Glock 7.
FTFY
 
2013-05-05 10:39:01 PM
Wait till you can print food just by adding raw materials and energy.

When you don't need them anymore.
 
2013-05-05 10:39:55 PM
FYI  bullet= made of lead and what exits the gun in a rapid manner
Cartridge= holds powder, bullet, primer and is ejected after being fired.
BULLET/=Cartridge

/stick a bullet in a gun and pull the trigger, nothing will happen. Now try a cartridge.
 
2013-05-05 10:43:25 PM

GUTSU: It would be very expensive


Never played with black powder pistols,have you?
and lets make it in oh, how about marble caliber.
 
2013-05-05 10:46:00 PM

Rivetman1.0: GUTSU: It would be very expensive

Never played with black powder pistols,have you?
and lets make it in oh, how about marble caliber.


That would work, I guess I was over-thinking it.
 
2013-05-05 10:55:17 PM
Everybody panic.... people with the right skills and specialized tools can make their own guns!

It's been this way for centuries. It's never been a problem.

People with valuable skills and tools usually aren't criminals. Why? Because the risk/reward ratio is better for them not to be criminals.

BTW, that FDM gun isn't durable. Six shots at the outside and parts will need replacement. Small thin parts don't last long made by the FDM process.
 
2013-05-05 10:55:46 PM

Lt_Ryan: Just wait until someone finds out you can buy a CNC mill and steel online and starts making guns out of (gasp) metal. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the plans for just the part of the receiver that is legally classified as a gun, all the other parts are basically what you can buy online or in any store.


Or, even worse, a C&C factory.
 
2013-05-05 11:05:42 PM

redmid17: Vlad_the_Inaner: vadum: I have never worked for the TSA, but unless they are using plastic bullets, I think they can still detect them.

I have invented this very hard but non-metallic material.

I think I'll call it....'glass'

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 160x160]

Sweet let me know when you figure out a way to propel it at high velocity without gun powder.


I'd say you'd have better luck with some modern version of a gyrojet.
 
2013-05-05 11:08:03 PM

Draskuul: A really, really low-end Leupold scope will run you $400, but the ones you'd be likely to use in this setup are in the $1400-2200 range--and that's just for the scope.  The original $1400 price was probably for a well-used setup from a pawn shop desperate for a sale.


Not necessarily.  A nice VX-III in the 6 to 20 power range will fetch about 700 to 900 depending upon the features.  if you want to bump up to the Mark 4 or higher tactical optics you will find yourself in the price you are at.

Leupolds are a little spendy, but the gold rings are still made here in the US.
 
2013-05-05 11:09:13 PM

loonatic112358: mike_the_engineer: loonatic112358: You make the plastic thick enough you could get off a shot, I'm not sure the the gun in question has thick enough plastic

I think the best case scenario would be a one-time-use .22 with a 50/50 chance of exploding in your hand.  And since the plastic is so flexible, the muzzle velocity would be significantly reduced.  I'd be surprised if it penetrated clothing.

as I said upthread, I'd only fire one from behind a blast shield


But with theblast shield down, I can't even see!
 
2013-05-05 11:11:48 PM

loonatic112358: radarlove: I think it's great that y'all know so much about guns, but it looks like none of you really know much about plastics.

Some of them can take a lot of punishment, which is why we make bulletproof windows and helmets out of certain kinds.

Bulletproof glass is typically layers of glass and plastics, not just plastic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet_proof_glass

helmets can crack from impact, between the exterior hard plastic and the interior foam your head usually won't


I actually broke a helmet that way.  I was riding a bicycle downhill at a pretty good speed and hit a pothole.  Landed on my head.  Broke the helmet but didn't suffer any head injury.
 
2013-05-05 11:16:03 PM

paleryder69: Never underestimate the ingenuity of a human being, why not use glass projectiles and a compressed gas propellant? Think paintball gun, but much higher pressures. No cartridge, no explosion, repeat fire and can be made entirely out of plastic with NO metal parts.

/would be totally legal too
//10 watt laser would be deadly as well


If you use phased plasma, something in the 40 watt range should be sufficient.
 
2013-05-05 11:19:08 PM
You can make zip guns out of pvc pipe and even rolled up magazines (newspaper doesn't work) depending on the caliber projectile.

You don't need to spend money on a 3d printer to make an undetectable firearm.....the zip gun made out of a magazine is old school convict tech.

Didn't Shumer and his ilk kvetch about "undetectable plastic Glocks" when they became popular in the states?
 
2013-05-05 11:19:22 PM

jaybeezey: serial_crusher: Impossible to detect?  I thought stuff like this was why they moved airports to backscatter machines instead of metal detectors?

Until someone makes a lethal bullet that isn't made of some kind metal, it's less of an issue than you might think.


Didn't I see a CSI one time where a guy made an ice bullet?  If it happened on CSI it's real, right?
I'm sure 3D printable bullets are somewhere on these guys' todo list.
 
2013-05-05 11:19:24 PM

Southern100: Do you really think it would be difficult to get something as small as a AAA battery through (or around) a metal detector? Heck, you could probably even put it inside a AAA battery and throw it in your camera.


What I think is really really funny is metal detectors can be spoofed with active counter measures.
 
2013-05-05 11:25:59 PM

serial_crusher: jaybeezey: serial_crusher: Impossible to detect?  I thought stuff like this was why they moved airports to backscatter machines instead of metal detectors?

Until someone makes a lethal bullet that isn't made of some kind metal, it's less of an issue than you might think.

Didn't I see a CSI one time where a guy made an ice bullet?  If it happened on CSI it's real, right?
I'm sure 3D printable bullets are somewhere on these guys' todo list.


Mythbusters busted ice bullets twice,  But I think I saw a hot melt glue bullet on youtube, about as 3d printer friendly at anything
 
2013-05-05 11:26:05 PM

calbert: this is clearly what the founding fathers were thinking of when they drafted the 2nd Amendment.


Well yes actually. It probably is.

If there was a way that people could make their own firearms I'm sure they would applaud it. They knew how expensive it was to purchase frearms from manufacturers for able bodied men to use.

They may have even seen to put in place a way for the people to run what they brung if ever the need arises.
 
2013-05-05 11:26:23 PM

serial_crusher: Didn't I see a CSI one time where a guy made an ice bullet? If it happened on CSI it's real, right?
I'm sure 3D printable bullets are somewhere on these guys' todo list.

 
2013-05-05 11:27:08 PM
serial_crusher: Didn't I see a CSI one time where a guy made an ice bullet? If it happened on CSI it's real, right?
I'm sure 3D printable bullets are somewhere on these guys' todo list.

collateraldamage.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-05-05 11:28:35 PM

redsquid: Even if the plastic was strong enough to handle the forces (it isn't), that still wouldn't be smooth enough to create a good enough seal to achieve decent muzzle velocity. It's a non-issue and it will be for quite some time.


You don't really need a good seal to get a high velocity if you are using a big, heavy bullet.

Plenty of people have been killed over the centuries by large chunks of lead flying at subsonic velocities.
 
2013-05-05 11:36:20 PM

Great Janitor: vygramul: thenumber5: Thunderboy: thenumber5:  good thing there "Plastic Gun" has the metal barrel

No, it doesn't.

yet it does, you can see it in the pics

It does not. The only metal parts are the firing pin and a steel slug to make it detectable and comply with federal law.

The firing pin is metal not to comply with federal law, but so it would work.  The firing pin is what hits the bullet causing the explosion to propel the bullet.  I am not sure how you could build one out of plastic and expect it to work.


You could make one out of plastic with a small metal tip.  That should be good enough.

Of course, I think the better way is to make it a muzzleloader.  Then you only need the nipple to be made out of metal, and perhaps not even that.  Black powder is lower pressure than smokeless, so it would be less likely to become a bomb in you hand.  Also, you wouldn't need that chunk of steel in it because under federal law, muzzleloaders aren't "firearms".  It would be completely legal to make it undetectable.
 
2013-05-05 11:39:50 PM

dittybopper: redsquid: Even if the plastic was strong enough to handle the forces (it isn't), that still wouldn't be smooth enough to create a good enough seal to achieve decent muzzle velocity. It's a non-issue and it will be for quite some time.

You don't really need a good seal to get a high velocity if you are using a big, heavy bullet.

Plenty of people have been killed over the centuries by large chunks of lead flying at subsonic velocities.


Sometimes slow enough that you could see it but fast enough that you couldn't do anything about it.
 
2013-05-06 12:02:13 AM

serial_crusher: jaybeezey: serial_crusher: Impossible to detect?  I thought stuff like this was why they moved airports to backscatter machines instead of metal detectors?

Until someone makes a lethal bullet that isn't made of some kind metal, it's less of an issue than you might think.

Didn't I see a CSI one time where a guy made an ice bullet?  If it happened on CSI it's real, right?
I'm sure 3D printable bullets are somewhere on these guys' todo list.


Trying to make non-detectable bullets is a stupid waste of effort.  The key is to make a gun that can shoot a projectile that, even if it gets detected, the authorities ignore.  I recall reading about a gun that fired coins (only worked at short ranges, obviously), and there are plenty of bullet shaped things that could be short for longer ranges.  Lipstick comes to mind.  Alternatively, as has already been mentioned, you can just put the bullet in something with a similar shape that authorities will wave right through even after detection.

Same with the gun.  A gun is made up of several shapes that, disassembled, are not suspicious (pretty much just a bunch of rectangles.  Disguise them as/in laptop batteries, calculators, cameras...any number of things that, even when detected won't get a second look, and there you go.

So why bother with plastic stealth crap?  People over-think this shiat.
 
2013-05-06 12:06:50 AM

Giltric: Sometimes slow enough that you could see it but fast enough that you couldn't do anything about it.


If the light's right, you can see .45 ammo flying downrange.
 
2013-05-06 12:07:40 AM

Vlad_the_Inaner: part of the problem: Interesting that this wiget is getting all the commotion... juast ahows lefties dont know squat about guns.

Sure, look at all the righies mentioning the gun's historic namesake

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x249]


The gun that took longer to reload than it did to make?
Seemed so obvious that its hardly worth mentioning.

The Liberator was more of a PR implement than actual, useful, firearm.  Its unlikely to have been involved with many german deaths.

/and its 3d printed successor holds true to the originals values.
/Altho it probably takes a while longer to make one, its purpose is to rustle jimmies more than to be lethal.
/Defcad wants to set precedent while 3d printing is in its infancy and politicians look the most foolish.
 
2013-05-06 12:14:36 AM

way south: The gun that took longer to reload than it did to make?
Seemed so obvious that its hardly worth mentioning.


Wow.

You didn't know, (or couldn't guess),  the whole point of that gun was to use it to kill an enemy soldier, and take that guys weapon?

wow... just wow.
 
2013-05-06 12:40:22 AM

Southern100: But for someone to take on an airplane? Absolutely possible. Is there anything the government can really do to stop it? Nope.


not to pick on you but so far no one has mentioned ammo. as in how does one get that on the plane? if i'm going to print my gun and use in on main street fine. well not fine but .. if i'm going to use it in your town on your main street and fly there ...? do i buy ammo when i arrive. have it shipped to a UPS store for pick up?
 
2013-05-06 12:46:32 AM

Curious: Southern100: But for someone to take on an airplane? Absolutely possible. Is there anything the government can really do to stop it? Nope.

not to pick on you but so far no one has mentioned ammo. as in how does one get that on the plane? if i'm going to print my gun and use in on main street fine. well not fine but .. if i'm going to use it in your town on your main street and fly there ...? do i buy ammo when i arrive. have it shipped to a UPS store for pick up?


Ammunition doesn't have to contain metal. We've been over this. A glass bullet will kill you just as dead as a lead one.
 
2013-05-06 01:18:06 AM
www.extremetech.com

Some of these 3D printed parts don't look half bad.

And if you wanted metal ones, you could select a suitable plastic for use in an investment casting process.
 
2013-05-06 01:25:04 AM

studebaker hoch: [www.extremetech.com image 850x609]

Some of these 3D printed parts don't look half bad.

And if you wanted metal ones, you could select a suitable plastic for use in an investment casting process.


Why would anyone in their right mind need to manufacture their own guns? Near as I can tell, guns are basically pornography for some vocal minority.

I don't recall mass gun confiscations after the Brady Bill was signed.
 
2013-05-06 01:33:58 AM

Harry_Seldon: studebaker hoch: [www.extremetech.com image 850x609]

Some of these 3D printed parts don't look half bad.

And if you wanted metal ones, you could select a suitable plastic for use in an investment casting process.

Why would anyone in their right mind need to manufacture their own guns?


"Need" is of no relevance.


Near as I can tell, guns are basically pornography for some vocal minority.

Your willful ignorance is not a valid basis for analysis.


I don't recall mass gun confiscations after the Brady Bill was signed.

Your statement is a non-sequitur.
 
2013-05-06 01:38:22 AM

Harry_Seldon: studebaker hoch: [www.extremetech.com image 850x609]

Some of these 3D printed parts don't look half bad.

And if you wanted metal ones, you could select a suitable plastic for use in an investment casting process.

Why would anyone in their right mind need to manufacture their own guns? Near as I can tell, guns are basically pornography for some vocal minority.

I don't recall mass gun confiscations after the Brady Bill was signed.


"Vocal minority," isn't really an appropriate term for somewhere in the neighborhood of 47 million gun-owning households.
 
2013-05-06 01:46:28 AM

vygramul: Harry_Seldon: studebaker hoch: [www.extremetech.com image 850x609]

Some of these 3D printed parts don't look half bad.

And if you wanted metal ones, you could select a suitable plastic for use in an investment casting process.

Why would anyone in their right mind need to manufacture their own guns? Near as I can tell, guns are basically pornography for some vocal minority.

I don't recall mass gun confiscations after the Brady Bill was signed.

"Vocal minority," isn't really an appropriate term for somewhere in the neighborhood of 47 million gun-owning households.


As one of the gun owning households,  I will stick the the fringe vocal minority theory that believes Obama is coming after their guns, and there is need to manufacture their own plastic guns to protect their liberty and freedom.
 
2013-05-06 01:46:58 AM

Molavian: Giltric: Sometimes slow enough that you could see it but fast enough that you couldn't do anything about it.

If the light's right, you can see .45 ammo flying downrange.


I've seen and heard a lot of bullets fly downrange when fired from a gun with a silencer. It really changes the experience, your eyes don't want to instinctively blink. I want a silencer.
 
2013-05-06 01:55:47 AM

Harry_Seldon: vygramul: Harry_Seldon: studebaker hoch: [www.extremetech.com image 850x609]

Some of these 3D printed parts don't look half bad.

And if you wanted metal ones, you could select a suitable plastic for use in an investment casting process.

Why would anyone in their right mind need to manufacture their own guns? Near as I can tell, guns are basically pornography for some vocal minority.

I don't recall mass gun confiscations after the Brady Bill was signed.

"Vocal minority," isn't really an appropriate term for somewhere in the neighborhood of 47 million gun-owning households.

As one of the gun owning households,  I will stick the the fringe vocal minority theory that believes Obama is coming after their guns, and there is need to manufacture their own plastic guns to protect their liberty and freedom.


Oh, you mean the molon labe crowd. Yeah.
 
2013-05-06 02:08:44 AM

Harry_Seldon: vygramul: Harry_Seldon:

Why would anyone in their right mind need to manufacture their own guns? Near as I can tell, guns are basically pornography for some vocal minority.

I don't recall mass gun confiscations after the Brady Bill was signed.

"Vocal minority," isn't really an appropriate term for somewhere in the neighborhood of 47 million gun-owning households.

As one of the gun owning households,  I will stick the the fringe vocal minority theory that believes Obama is coming after their guns, and there is need to manufacture their own plastic guns to protect their liberty and freedom.


Are these guns likely to ever be as functional and durable as a real, designed-by-a-gunsmith, precision-made whatever, or to be produced with actual intent to use them?  Of course not -- and that's not the point.   To the Escape Zeppelin! had it right -- the point is to further demonstrate what anybody with basic machine skills has known forever: guns that work "well enough" are not particularly difficult to make (they did it with what we consider crude hand tools 200 years ago, and a lot of those guns produced by skilled smiths worked just fine).  Guns that work well are only marginally harder.  And as technology marches on, it gets easier and cheaper to hit whichever quality mark you're aiming for.
 
2013-05-06 02:15:53 AM
Imagine you really can 3D-print a working firearm by downloading a file from the Internet and printing it.  How does anyone realistically expect to ban this?  Make 3D printers illegal?  That's not going to work when there are plans on the Internet showing you how to make your own.  If you did ban 3D printers how would this effect America's productivity and innovation in a global market when 3D printers were legal elsewhere in the World?   How do you expect to ban a file from the Internet?  Nearly everyone considers pedophiles to be the lowest form of human existence, yet ever so often a child pornography ring gets busted with tens of THOUSANDS of banned and universally despised images on their servers.
farm4.staticflickr.com
 
2013-05-06 02:34:23 AM
What a great viral marketing campaign by the 3D printer guys.
 
2013-05-06 02:47:27 AM
This has probably been linked already, but in case anyone missed it.. 3D-printed gun fired on video:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/5/6/4304164/video-of-defense-distribute d- liberator-3d-printed-gun-test
 
2013-05-06 03:00:19 AM

dbrunker: tens of THOUSANDS of banned and universally despised images on their servers


Well, not universally, obviously.
 
2013-05-06 03:10:11 AM
They should print out dildos instead of guns. Everyone would be happier.
 
2013-05-06 03:17:57 AM

dbrunker: Imagine you really can 3D-print a working firearm by downloading a file from the Internet and printing it.  How does anyone realistically expect to ban this?  Make 3D printers illegal?  That's not going to work when there are plans on the Internet showing you how to make your own.  If you did ban 3D printers how would this effect America's productivity and innovation in a global market when 3D printers were legal elsewhere in the World?   How do you expect to ban a file from the Internet?  Nearly everyone considers pedophiles to be the lowest form of human existence, yet ever so often a child pornography ring gets busted with tens of THOUSANDS of banned and universally despised images on their servers.
[farm4.staticflickr.com image 350x491]


I expect a law to be passed that would require the plastic used in 3D printers to be weak enough to never be used in a plastic gun.  Part of me wonders if this is just an anti-gun fight, or the start of a different fight?  The reason why I ask that is that Congress missed the boat on any useful legislation on pirating copyrighted materials from the internet.  Some members of Congress wanted computers to catch a virus or blow up if they downloaded copyrighted files (seriously).  Now we have a new technology that is going to expand piracy from digital only to digital and physical.  We could seriously see more members of Congress pointing to 3D printers and explaining how they will be used for illegally downloading toys and anything else people get that's made of plastic.  More members of Congress seriously suggesting that the 3D printer will be used for building guns from downloaded schematics and will cause a rise in crime (Thugs may not be the brightest of the criminals, but even they wouldn't be dumb enough to use a plastic gun downloaded from the internet).  I am expecting Congress to fight against 3D printers for home use, or do all they can to nerf the plastic that would be used in them.
 
2013-05-06 03:26:35 AM
www.goldismoney2.com

...3D printable wiki rifle in the forty megabyte range.

/hey just what you see in this directory, pal.
 
2013-05-06 03:30:05 AM

Great Janitor: dbrunker: Imagine you really can 3D-print a working firearm by downloading a file from the Internet and printing it.  How does anyone realistically expect to ban this?  Make 3D printers illegal?  That's not going to work when there are plans on the Internet showing you how to make your own.  If you did ban 3D printers how would this effect America's productivity and innovation in a global market when 3D printers were legal elsewhere in the World?   How do you expect to ban a file from the Internet?  Nearly everyone considers pedophiles to be the lowest form of human existence, yet ever so often a child pornography ring gets busted with tens of THOUSANDS of banned and universally despised images on their servers.
[farm4.staticflickr.com image 350x491]

I expect a law to be passed that would require the plastic used in 3D printers to be weak enough to never be used in a plastic gun.  Part of me wonders if this is just an anti-gun fight, or the start of a different fight?  The reason why I ask that is that Congress missed the boat on any useful legislation on pirating copyrighted materials from the internet.  Some members of Congress wanted computers to catch a virus or blow up if they downloaded copyrighted files (seriously).  Now we have a new technology that is going to expand piracy from digital only to digital and physical.  We could seriously see more members of Congress pointing to 3D printers and explaining how they will be used for illegally downloading toys and anything else people get that's made of plastic.  More members of Congress seriously suggesting that the 3D printer will be used for building guns from downloaded schematics and will cause a rise in crime (Thugs may not be the brightest of the criminals, but even they wouldn't be dumb enough to use a plastic gun downloaded from the internet).  I am expecting Congress to fight against 3D printers for home use, or do all they can to nerf the plastic that would be used in them.


Yeah, there's really nothing they can do about that either.  The cat's out the bag.
 
2013-05-06 03:36:15 AM
Ban everything. It's the only way. But I think it's more a way to keep 3D printers out of the people's hands in order to make sure his supporters can keep their Chinese factories running more than anything. Schumer's a tool, but he's no fool. The only reason he wants controls on these things is to keep himself in office for as long as possible. I honestly don't think he gives a wet ***t about plastic guns.
 
2013-05-06 03:39:38 AM

werty789: Notice there is no video of someone firing the pistol. I wouldn't fire it. I saw a video of someone firing an AR15 with a printed  plastic receiver and it broke after three or four shots.

What round is it suppose to  fire? Until I see it fired I will assume it is bogus.


Here's a video of it being fired. One shot, doesn't explode. I presume it's firing .22LR, perhaps something like Super Colibri or some other low-pressure round.

The AR receiver that broke after a few shots was a very early design. They basically took the design for aluminum receivers and made them out of plastic. Turns out that doesn't work so well (the buffer tower breaks fairly easily with plastic). They re-did the design to better account for the strengths/weaknesses of plastic and it was able to fire over 600 rounds before breaking due to a non-shooting-related cause. They've pretty much got the kinks worked out of 3D-printed AR lowers.
 
2013-05-06 03:41:44 AM

lewismarktwo: Yeah, there's really nothing they can do about that either. The cat's out the bag.


Never estimate the power of 535 stupid people with an infinite number of real, non-3D-printed guns.
 
2013-05-06 03:42:17 AM

heypete: I presume it's firing .22LR, perhaps something like Super Colibri or some other low-pressure round.


Addendum: according to the photos available here, it looks like the gun fires some sort of pistol-caliber round. Not sure what, but it's probably down-loaded a bit so it doesn't reach such high pressures.
 
2013-05-06 04:05:31 AM
Great Janitor: I expect a law to be passed that would require the plastic used in 3D printers to be weak enough to never be used in a plastic gun.

You sound like a reasonable person and I'm not looking for an argument but even that strategy has a loophole.  What if you go the other way and instead of making your gun stronger make 3D-printed, gun parts out of a material with a low melting point, like wax.  A part could be printed, packed in the right kind of sand, heated up so the wax melted, leaving a hole that you could pour something like zinc into.  Zinc has a melting point of just under 790f and can make really detailed cast parts and is much stronger than nearly any kind of plastic.  After you're crime is all finished you can reheat the gun and your weapon becomes a bar of metal, indistinguishable from any other.  Can't get zinc?  Use epoxy and silicon molds.

Seems we just don't live in an era where things can be banned anymore.
 
2013-05-06 04:07:20 AM
Of course this stuff is going to break at first.
 
2013-05-06 04:08:34 AM

heypete: heypete: I presume it's firing .22LR, perhaps something like Super Colibri or some other low-pressure round.

Addendum: according to the photos available here, it looks like the gun fires some sort of pistol-caliber round. Not sure what, but it's probably down-loaded a bit so it doesn't reach such high pressures.


According to Forbes, it's a .308 pistol round.
 
2013-05-06 04:32:10 AM

redsquid: Show me a consumer level 3D printer that can print a usable gun.


Okay. First please define "usable" so you don't go moving those goalposts again.
=Smidge=
 
2013-05-06 06:03:00 AM

Vlad_the_Inaner: way south: The gun that took longer to reload than it did to make?
Seemed so obvious that its hardly worth mentioning.

Wow.

You didn't know, (or couldn't guess),  the whole point of that gun was to use it to kill an enemy soldier, and take that guys weapon?

wow... just wow.



That was the plan, but not its purpose, because you have to ask that awkward question: "And then what?".

It was a .45acp zip gun.   One shot from an extremely short barrel with little range and even less accuracy, unsuppressed.
Now you've made a loud bang and maybe got a dead german soldier on your hands, cause bullets aren't kill rays.   His equipment (a bolt action rifle being the common thing of the day) isn't going to stop his friends from doing ugly things to you, and the Germans were notorious for doing ugly things.
No one was going to rise up and build an army on stolen equipment like this. The guns purpose was to piss off the germans and make it so they wouldn't feel safe patrolling their captured territory.
This was trolling, 1940's style.

This wasn't the last time the concept would come about, but its hard to say if its ever had a real impact.
Giving things that barely qualify as guns to a population with no 4th amendment protection isn't going to drive out an occupying force. They'll just drag people out into the street and kill anyone who's picked the thing up.
Maybe it could have been the base for some asymmetrical warfare if the guys making it understood that it takes more than "a gun" and delivered something worth a damn to carry.

/When the Russians handed out free guns they gave the Mosin Nagant, SKS, and AK-47.
/Those were more effective.
 
2013-05-06 07:09:18 AM

Harry_Seldon: I don't recall mass gun confiscations after the Brady Bill was signed.


That's because the Brady Bill was about waiting periods and background checks.  Don't be stupid.
 
2013-05-06 07:57:37 AM

GUTSU: Curious: Southern100: But for someone to take on an airplane? Absolutely possible. Is there anything the government can really do to stop it? Nope.

not to pick on you but so far no one has mentioned ammo. as in how does one get that on the plane? if i'm going to print my gun and use in on main street fine. well not fine but .. if i'm going to use it in your town on your main street and fly there ...? do i buy ammo when i arrive. have it shipped to a UPS store for pick up?

Ammunition doesn't have to contain metal. We've been over this. A glass bullet will kill you just as dead as a lead one.


Is that "We've been over this. A glass bullet will kill you just as dead as a lead one" as in "Someone proposed that and it got thoroughly debunked"?  Because I seem to remember one guy saying "glass bullet" and then getting dogpiled with refutations.

I know it's from 1995, but here's the Straight Dope on the topic.  I'm no expert, but my Google-Fu turns up plenty of rumors and speculation, but no definite examples of a non-metallic cartridge that has been successfully shot out of a firearm.

As far as I can tell it's still just an urban legend, which is not to say it won't ever happen.
 
2013-05-06 08:01:57 AM

God-is-a-Taco: They should print out dildos instead of guns. Everyone would be happier.


Why not both?   (image possibly nsfw)
 
2013-05-06 08:05:02 AM
apparently the new "Pirate Bay of 3D printers" is nothing but guns!  what else is there to do but kill people these days
 
2013-05-06 08:06:03 AM

ciberido: I'm no expert, but my Google-Fu turns up plenty of rumors and speculation, but no definite examples of a non-metallic cartridge that has been successfully shot out of a firearm.


I should have said "a non-metallic cartridge that has been successfully USED in a firearm," since obviously it's only the bullet part that actually gets shot out.  But my point is that the entire cartridge needs to be non-metallic, not JUST the bullet.
 
2013-05-06 08:33:42 AM

way south: That was the plan, but not its purpose, because you have to ask that awkward question: "And then what?".


Why it seems that you think "And then we continue to march into the gas chambers" was a viable alternative, since one of the original ideas was to drop them on concentration camps.

Beyond that, if you don't think a putative resistance fighter cannot figure out a useful plan for his newly acquired Sturmgewehr 44, my response is "wow...just wow!" again.
 
2013-05-06 08:37:54 AM

Great Janitor: Lsherm: Great Janitor: The firing pin is metal not to comply with federal law, but so it would work.  The firing pin is what hits the bullet causing the explosion to propel the bullet.  I am not sure how you could build one out of plastic and expect it to work.

Firing pins aren't very big.  Get a hard enough piece of plastic and there's no reason it shouldn't work.

Looking at how bullets are assembled, you probably wouldn't need a metal firing pin to get one to fire.  The job of the firing pin is to get the bullet to fire.  The bullet is a bomb, the gun just controls the explosion.  Using a plastic fire pin would mean that you'd get one shot out of it before it melted.  A melted plastic firing pin could jam the gun.

In short, a plastic firing pin would be as useful as plastic brake pads for a F1 racecar.


I don't think anyone expects these guns to fire more than one time.
 
2013-05-06 08:38:06 AM

lewismarktwo: Imagine if instead of wanting to keep people from printing 'untraceable' 'undetectable' guns we might concentrate on wanting to keep people from wanting to use 'untraceable' 'undetectable' guns.

Also, no religion too.


You're not helping.
 
2013-05-06 09:09:22 AM

luxup: Pro-gun, anti-gun whatever. I know for a fact that it is only a matter of time before some kid prints out a plastic gun and we hear about the carnage on tv.  Nobody will really care about the dead because it will be to  soon to talk about them.

Let's take a moment to morn the 1st person killed with one of these shall we, because after it happens people will be too busy defending their right to have all the guns you want or saying we should ban them.


How about let's take a moment to discuss how some things are simply unpreventable no matter how many freedoms you restrict in your attempt to do so?
 
2013-05-06 09:21:51 AM

Vlad_the_Inaner: way south: That was the plan, but not its purpose, because you have to ask that awkward question: "And then what?".

Why it seems that you think "And then we continue to march into the gas chambers" was a viable alternative, since one of the original ideas was to drop them on concentration camps.

Beyond that, if you don't think a putative resistance fighter cannot figure out a useful plan for his newly acquired Sturmgewehr 44, my response is "wow...just wow!" again.


You seem to think there wasn't a measure of complicity between the public and their oppressors.
There was resistance, but we're talking about small militias VS the worlds top military power. This rarely ended well.    This isn't the age of political correctness where the bad guy can run off and hide among non combatants.  This was an era where it was considered reasonable to burn a city down if it was too much trouble to get your way.

The French could have pulled aStalingrad and made the Germans pay for every inch, but they played the "France Surrenders" card and capitulated to save their city by sacrificing their populace.

The MP-44 was a rare bird held by top units. It didn't even prevent the Germans from being overwhelmed. One or two in civilian hands wasn't going to save Europe.
A few million, maybe... But then shouldn't we have been sending more things like grease guns to the resistance, instead of liberator pistols?

The "run out and steal a gun" plan was wishful thinking.
 
2013-05-06 09:57:35 AM

Draskuul: jayphat: utah dude: jayphat: utah dude: jayphat: utah dude: PaLarkin: A plastic gun used for an assassination only needs to be fired once or twice.  Since it's made of plastic it can easily be burned or melted beyond recognition.

a remington 700 in .308 with a leupould scope will run you about 1400 and will give you time to leave the grassy knoll.

That's one helluva markup. I could get the same setup at Walmart for $800 easy.

not with those optics you won't

A $600 rifle and $200 scope?

i was thinking about 700 for both, brah.

That's what I was originally. Where is this guy getting 1400?

Leupold scopes are horribly overpriced.

Your average Remington 700 in .308 will run you around $700.  A really, really low-end Leupold scope will run you $400, but the ones you'd be likely to use in this setup are in the $1400-2200 range--and that's just for the scope.  The original $1400 price was probably for a well-used setup from a pawn shop desperate for a sale.

As soon as we decide that radio, television and the internet aren't afforded First Amendment protection because the 'technology didn't exist back then', then maybe I'll give a rat's ass about the idiots trying to limit the Second Amendment.


i just favorited you.
 
2013-05-06 10:18:16 AM

Southern100: According to Forbes, it's a .308 pistol round.


.380, not .308. Basically a shorter, wimpier 9mm. (.308 is a rifle round.)

Interesting. That's not what I was expecting them to use, but it actually has a lower pressure than .22LR -- I didn't know that -- so it makes sense.
 
2013-05-06 10:47:11 AM
People are forgetting pneumatics. You can make a plastic gun that you can pump up and use to shoot a bullet. Add in psionics and you've got a combination that can be... deadly serious.

Now. Roll for initiative.
 
2013-05-06 12:37:17 PM

Honest Bender: Rincewind53: Honest Bender: Why do they "have" to outlaw them?  Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it perfectly legal for me to manufacture my own firearms now?  What difference does it make how I do so?  Or are things just legal until it becomes too easy to do?

Key word here is  plastic. aka, invisible to metal detectors, therefore more dangerous and not permissible under federal law (I think).

That's their problem.


No, it's not.  That's the smoke screen.  What is ammo made out of?

This is a classic case of treating the symptoms instead of the problems.  The problem isn't guns, it's people killing each other.  If you remove guns, people still kill each other... so very clearly, guns aren't the problem.  Good, now shut the fark up about guns, because I'm getting sick of having to defend my constitutional rights to people too ignorant to think for themselves for 10 seconds.

Also, as a foot note, that law was passed when metal detectors were the only available security device.  That is not true anymore, and should have invalidated the law (only if we had rational laws, but since we don't...).  In short, a backscatter array, like used at AIRPORTS would detect a hard plastic object in heartbeat.  The metal detectors will still pick up the ammo as well.
 
2013-05-06 12:41:17 PM

brantgoose: The Founding Fathers did not mean for every Tom, Dick and Harry to have an arsenel that would impress the King of England.


Bald-faced lie. The actual verbiage of the Second Amendment stands in stark contrast to your statement. The Founding Fathers realized that the ONLY balancing force against the military is a well-armed populace. The rich and politicians are too few in number to possibly resist a military coup. That leaves the citizenry.
 
2013-05-06 01:08:23 PM

way south: Vlad_the_Inaner: way south: That was the plan, but not its purpose, because you have to ask that awkward question: "And then what?".

Why it seems that you think "And then we continue to march into the gas chambers" was a viable alternative, since one of the original ideas was to drop them on concentration camps.

Beyond that, if you don't think a putative resistance fighter cannot figure out a useful plan for his newly acquired Sturmgewehr 44, my response is "wow...just wow!" again.

You seem to think there wasn't a measure of complicity between the public and their oppressors.
There was resistance, but we're talking about small militias VS the worlds top military power. This rarely ended well.    This isn't the age of political correctness where the bad guy can run off and hide among non combatants.  This was an era where it was considered reasonable to burn a city down if it was too much trouble to get your way.

The French could have pulled aStalingrad and made the Germans pay for every inch, but they played the "France Surrenders" card and capitulated to save their city by sacrificing their populace.

The MP-44 was a rare bird held by top units. It didn't even prevent the Germans from being overwhelmed. One or two in civilian hands wasn't going to save Europe.
A few million, maybe... But then shouldn't we have been sending more things like grease guns to the resistance, instead of liberator pistols?

The "run out and steal a gun" plan was wishful thinking.


Oh I see.  You're stuck with the romantic notion of 'the brave Minutemen used their superior rifles and threw off the yoke of the English' as the only valid concept of a insurrection.  Sorry bucko, that's not the real world.

That wasn't the proximate goal of the Liberatior.  If you were arming specific people via a specific plan, of course you'd supply real military weapons.   But if you are trying to use mass scattering of weapons to arm a previous disarmed population, you don't toss AK-47's off the back of an airplanef lying over town.  But something like a Liberator is another story.  Itt was designed to be scattered lake chaff in the wind.  Will the population snatch the weapon and immediately shoot  the nearest enemy?  Except maybe in the case of the Concentration Camps, of course not.  Will it cause chaos with the enemies rear.  Certainly it will.  Oh you say they'll just sweep up the weapons.  Yeah.  And the soldiers doing that will not be defending the front lines anymore.   Oh their buddies will protect each other.  That's right, and they'll have to man their checkpoints with a squad for that, instead of a couple of guys.  All this costs them men and time away from the front.  More troops to protect the lines of supply and communications instead of fighting on the front.

The American colonials did not throw out the English by rising up in a militia.  An army was formed.  And it was supported by French army troops.  Militia actions were a sideshow, and were often derided  Consider their performance at the Battle of Camden.  This is why the Constitution desires a 'Well Regulated' militia

Regardless of your opinion of the French, go ahead and call the Poles, Danes and Finns surrender monkeys and see what you get.  Especially the Finns. None of them managed to reform a new army in occupied regions and expel occupations.  All of them had resistance movements.

TL;DR:  The FP-45 was not a magic wand to wave and make a people instantly free by giving them the all holy gun.  It was tool to cause the enemy trouble by changing a a pacified region back into a dangerous one,   It wasn't expected that that populace would throw off the invader by itself, but instead cause enough trouble to aid in their liberation by real troops.  This is the critical step that the 'there is a second amendment solution to problems' people always seem to neglect..
 
2013-05-06 01:16:31 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: way south: Vlad_the_Inaner: way south: That was the plan, but not its purpose, because you have to ask that awkward question: "And then what?".

Why it seems that you think "And then we continue to march into the gas chambers" was a viable alternative, since one of the original ideas was to drop them on concentration camps.

Beyond that, if you don't think a putative resistance fighter cannot figure out a useful plan for his newly acquired Sturmgewehr 44, my response is "wow...just wow!" again.

You seem to think there wasn't a measure of complicity between the public and their oppressors.
There was resistance, but we're talking about small militias VS the worlds top military power. This rarely ended well.    This isn't the age of political correctness where the bad guy can run off and hide among non combatants.  This was an era where it was considered reasonable to burn a city down if it was too much trouble to get your way.

The French could have pulled aStalingrad and made the Germans pay for every inch, but they played the "France Surrenders" card and capitulated to save their city by sacrificing their populace.

The MP-44 was a rare bird held by top units. It didn't even prevent the Germans from being overwhelmed. One or two in civilian hands wasn't going to save Europe.
A few million, maybe... But then shouldn't we have been sending more things like grease guns to the resistance, instead of liberator pistols?

The "run out and steal a gun" plan was wishful thinking.

Oh I see.  You're stuck with the romantic notion of 'the brave Minutemen used their superior rifles and threw off the yoke of the English' as the only valid concept of a insurrection.  Sorry bucko, that's not the real world.

That wasn't the proximate goal of the Liberatior.  If you were arming specific people via a specific plan, of course you'd supply real military weapons.   But if you are trying to use mass scattering of weapons to arm a previous disarmed population, you don't toss AK-47's off ...


There is a perfectly valid "second amendment solution" to our governmental problems, but they went ahead and limited access to area denial weapons system and artillery.  So it's not as easy as it should be to remove congress.
 
2013-05-06 01:20:58 PM

Kahabut: So it's not as easy as it should be to remove congress.


And here I was expecting him to sign off with "BRB, someone at door"
 
2013-05-06 01:31:42 PM
Since when does the Gestapo stop at the door anymore?
 
2013-05-06 02:55:24 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: Kahabut: So it's not as easy as it should be to remove congress.

And here I was expecting him to sign off with "BRB, someone at door"


Not my door.

/proxies
//guns
///etc.
 
2013-05-06 03:22:36 PM

dittybopper: Harry_Seldon: I don't recall mass gun confiscations after the Brady Bill was signed.

That's because the Brady Bill was about waiting periods and background checks.  Don't be stupid.


That's the point.
 
2013-05-06 05:04:00 PM

Vlad_the_Inaner: That wasn't the proximate goal of the Liberator.   If you were arming specific people via a specific plan, of course you'd supply real military weapons.   But if you are trying to use mass scattering of weapons to arm a previous disarmed population, you don't toss AK-47's off the back of an airplane flying over town.  But something like a Liberator is another story.  It was designed to be scattered lake chaff in the wind.  Will the population snatch the weapon and immediately shoot  the nearest enemy?  Except maybe in the case of the Concentration Camps, of course not.  Will it cause chaos with the enemies rear.  Certainly it will.  Oh you say they'll just sweep up the weapons.  Yeah.  And the soldiers doing that will not be defending the front lines anymore.   Oh their buddies will protect each other.  That's right, and they'll have to man their checkpoints with a squad for that, instead of a couple of guys.  All this costs them men and time away from the front.  More troops to protect the lines of supply and communications instead of fighting on the front.


Its a matter of having effective firepower and being able to use it in a successful manner.
You expect someone wouldtake a Liberator to the neareststormtrooper and bet the farm on winning a close range tussle. Their expectation was to do whatever it takes to survive the war, and this wasn't likely with such a limited weapon or risky plan.
If we spared a barrel more, to make this a pepperbox or something formidable, then maybe they'd have used it.Instead we gave them something they could have made in their own basement.

If they had that kind of drive from the start, they wouldn't have needed the liberator.

/We were more successful in disrupting Germans by distributing "my littlesaboteur" kits to the resistance.
/A machine gun or bomb in the hands of a willing group does more than zip guns scattered in a field.
 
2013-05-06 06:18:28 PM

way south: You expect someone wouldtake a Liberator to the neareststormtrooper and bet the farm on winning a close range tussle.


Actually, no.  Excepting the concentration camp scenario, I expect the nationalist to sneak up behind an isolated enemy and blow his farking head off when he's not looking. Or some other kind of ambush.  Woman says come up to my room for a little nookie, and BLAM while the guy is taking his pants off.  That sort of thing. its basically an assassination weapon, not a battle weapon.  Go ahead., Nazi, stay on alert 24/7.  Only go out in groups. Enjoy your PTSD.

You really do a romantic idea of how wars are fought, don't you  Quickest draw at high noon, may the best man win.  Wrong. War winners fight dirty, and the FP-45 is a little dirty weapon.
 
2013-05-06 06:36:04 PM

calbert: this is clearly what the founding fathers were thinking of when they drafted the 2nd Amendment.


Actually, if you told the FFs that technology would one day make it possible for every man to own his own armory, most of them would probably approve of the idea.
 
2013-05-06 06:45:37 PM

Mouser: calbert: this is clearly what the founding fathers were thinking of when they drafted the 2nd Amendment.

Actually, if you told the FFs that technology would one day make it possible for every man to own his own armory, most of them would probably approve of the idea.


Pretty much. If you told them that technology would one day make it possible for black people and women to tell everyone what they're thinking, they'd probably reconsider the 1st amendment.
 
2013-05-06 07:29:14 PM

vygramul: Mouser: calbert: this is clearly what the founding fathers were thinking of when they drafted the 2nd Amendment.

Actually, if you told the FFs that technology would one day make it possible for every man to own his own armory, most of them would probably approve of the idea.

Pretty much. If you told them that technology would one day make it possible for black people and women to tell everyone what they're thinking, they'd probably reconsider the 1st amendment.


Gender roles were vastly different 300 years ago, women were not shackled in the kitchen and beaten with canes for not making biscuits fast enough. Women could publish written works back then, they weren't muzzled.. Back then not all blacks were seen as mongoloids, some in fact were slave owners, and many traders bartered things like rum and firearms to blacks in Ghana for slaves.

But none of that actually matters, now does it?
 
2013-05-06 07:34:21 PM

untaken_name: You don't have to register that piece if you manufacture it yourself. So says the law. If you have a machine shop, you can make all the metal unregistered (fully automatic, even) guns you want to make. Just don't try to sell or move them across state lines, and if you're in Arizona, don't manufacture a fully automatic gun because they've illegitimately banned them.


You can legally own fully automatic guns at least as easily as anywhere else in the US. It's illegal to have one if it's not properly NFA registered, but that's illegal anyway.

Look here and read all the way to the bottom: http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/03101.htm
 
2013-05-06 07:47:16 PM

GUTSU: vygramul: Mouser: calbert: this is clearly what the founding fathers were thinking of when they drafted the 2nd Amendment.

Actually, if you told the FFs that technology would one day make it possible for every man to own his own armory, most of them would probably approve of the idea.

Pretty much. If you told them that technology would one day make it possible for black people and women to tell everyone what they're thinking, they'd probably reconsider the 1st amendment.

Gender roles were vastly different 300 years ago, women were not shackled in the kitchen and beaten with canes for not making biscuits fast enough. Women could publish written works back then, they weren't muzzled.. Back then not all blacks were seen as mongoloids, some in fact were slave owners, and many traders bartered things like rum and firearms to blacks in Ghana for slaves.

But none of that actually matters, now does it?


Yes, yes, American was the land of chocolate rivers and gumdrop smiles, where the natives laid out thankful spreads for the colonists and black folks whistled while they worked.
 
2013-05-06 07:47:39 PM
Mehh...... i'd rather just buy an 80% complete metal lower and complete the process with a drill press.  Seems a lot easier than plastic, and the results could be better.

No serial numbers either way.
 
2013-05-06 07:49:41 PM

vygramul: GUTSU: vygramul: Mouser: calbert: this is clearly what the founding fathers were thinking of when they drafted the 2nd Amendment.

Actually, if you told the FFs that technology would one day make it possible for every man to own his own armory, most of them would probably approve of the idea.

Pretty much. If you told them that technology would one day make it possible for black people and women to tell everyone what they're thinking, they'd probably reconsider the 1st amendment.

Gender roles were vastly different 300 years ago, women were not shackled in the kitchen and beaten with canes for not making biscuits fast enough. Women could publish written works back then, they weren't muzzled.. Back then not all blacks were seen as mongoloids, some in fact were slave owners, and many traders bartered things like rum and firearms to blacks in Ghana for slaves.

But none of that actually matters, now does it?

Yes, yes, American was the land of chocolate rivers and gumdrop smiles, where the natives laid out thankful spreads for the colonists and black folks whistled while they worked.


Sorry. I forgot why I was talking to, let me try again.
"GEORGE WASHINGTON RAPED THE BLACKMAN, AND BEAT WOMEN WITH HIS WOODEN TEETH!"
 
2013-05-06 07:52:04 PM

GUTSU: vygramul: GUTSU: vygramul: Mouser: calbert: this is clearly what the founding fathers were thinking of when they drafted the 2nd Amendment.

Actually, if you told the FFs that technology would one day make it possible for every man to own his own armory, most of them would probably approve of the idea.

Pretty much. If you told them that technology would one day make it possible for black people and women to tell everyone what they're thinking, they'd probably reconsider the 1st amendment.

Gender roles were vastly different 300 years ago, women were not shackled in the kitchen and beaten with canes for not making biscuits fast enough. Women could publish written works back then, they weren't muzzled.. Back then not all blacks were seen as mongoloids, some in fact were slave owners, and many traders bartered things like rum and firearms to blacks in Ghana for slaves.

But none of that actually matters, now does it?

Yes, yes, American was the land of chocolate rivers and gumdrop smiles, where the natives laid out thankful spreads for the colonists and black folks whistled while they worked.

Sorry. I forgot why I was talking to, let me try again.
"GEORGE WASHINGTON RAPED THE BLACKMAN, AND BEAT WOMEN WITH HIS WOODEN TEETH!"


George Washington had slaves, if I recall. That condition generally requires a sense of disparate values for human life. And you can tell women were treated equally because they were given the vote as well. Oh, wait, you mean they weren't?
 
2013-05-06 07:55:46 PM

vygramul: GUTSU: vygramul: GUTSU: vygramul: Mouser: calbert: this is clearly what the founding fathers were thinking of when they drafted the 2nd Amendment.

Actually, if you told the FFs that technology would one day make it possible for every man to own his own armory, most of them would probably approve of the idea.

Pretty much. If you told them that technology would one day make it possible for black people and women to tell everyone what they're thinking, they'd probably reconsider the 1st amendment.

Gender roles were vastly different 300 years ago, women were not shackled in the kitchen and beaten with canes for not making biscuits fast enough. Women could publish written works back then, they weren't muzzled.. Back then not all blacks were seen as mongoloids, some in fact were slave owners, and many traders bartered things like rum and firearms to blacks in Ghana for slaves.

But none of that actually matters, now does it?

Yes, yes, American was the land of chocolate rivers and gumdrop smiles, where the natives laid out thankful spreads for the colonists and black folks whistled while they worked.

Sorry. I forgot why I was talking to, let me try again.
"GEORGE WASHINGTON RAPED THE BLACKMAN, AND BEAT WOMEN WITH HIS WOODEN TEETH!"

George Washington had slaves, if I recall. That condition generally requires a sense of disparate values for human life. And you can tell women were treated equally because they were given the vote as well. Oh, wait, you mean they weren't?


"If you told them that technology would one day make it possible for black people and women to tell everyone what they're thinking, they'd probably reconsider the 1st amendment."

There was nothing about "voting" or "being treated equally", If you were a rich black guy who owned slaves you wouldn't be muzzled, if you were a women you could speak your mind. Stop shifting the goal posts.
 
2013-05-06 07:59:43 PM

GUTSU: vygramul: GUTSU: vygramul: GUTSU: vygramul: Mouser: calbert: this is clearly what the founding fathers were thinking of when they drafted the 2nd Amendment.

Actually, if you told the FFs that technology would one day make it possible for every man to own his own armory, most of them would probably approve of the idea.

Pretty much. If you told them that technology would one day make it possible for black people and women to tell everyone what they're thinking, they'd probably reconsider the 1st amendment.

Gender roles were vastly different 300 years ago, women were not shackled in the kitchen and beaten with canes for not making biscuits fast enough. Women could publish written works back then, they weren't muzzled.. Back then not all blacks were seen as mongoloids, some in fact were slave owners, and many traders bartered things like rum and firearms to blacks in Ghana for slaves.

But none of that actually matters, now does it?

Yes, yes, American was the land of chocolate rivers and gumdrop smiles, where the natives laid out thankful spreads for the colonists and black folks whistled while they worked.

Sorry. I forgot why I was talking to, let me try again.
"GEORGE WASHINGTON RAPED THE BLACKMAN, AND BEAT WOMEN WITH HIS WOODEN TEETH!"

George Washington had slaves, if I recall. That condition generally requires a sense of disparate values for human life. And you can tell women were treated equally because they were given the vote as well. Oh, wait, you mean they weren't?

"If you told them that technology would one day make it possible for black people and women to tell everyone what they're thinking, they'd probably reconsider the 1st amendment."

There was nothing about "voting" or "being treated equally", If you were a rich black guy who owned slaves you wouldn't be muzzled, if you were a women you could speak your mind. Stop shifting the goal posts.


Could either one vote? No? Then they were seen as lesser, and as not having a voice in the political process. No goalposts moved. You made absurd assertions regarding their noble treatment of blacks and women, and now you're retreating from it.
 
2013-05-06 08:04:26 PM
"If you told them that technology would one day make it possible for black people and women to tell everyone what they're thinking, they'd probably reconsider the 1st amendment."

I answered this. Blacks and women were allowed to publish written works, to converse with other citizens. In the black's case he had to have not been a slave, many blacks in the south rich enough to afford slaves often bought them. I honestly don't understand why you have such a hard time with this.
theodessafiles.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-05-06 08:30:52 PM

GUTSU: "If you told them that technology would one day make it possible for black people and women to tell everyone what they're thinking, they'd probably reconsider the 1st amendment."

I answered this. Blacks and women were allowed to publish written works, to converse with other citizens. In the black's case he had to have not been a slave, many blacks in the south rich enough to afford slaves often bought them. I honestly don't understand why you have such a hard time with this.
[theodessafiles.files.wordpress.com image 334x450]


Yes, yes, I know, it was the land of chocolate rivers and gumdrop smiles.
 
2013-05-06 09:30:43 PM

vygramul: GUTSU: "If you told them that technology would one day make it possible for black people and women to tell everyone what they're thinking, they'd probably reconsider the 1st amendment."

I answered this. Blacks and women were allowed to publish written works, to converse with other citizens. In the black's case he had to have not been a slave, many blacks in the south rich enough to afford slaves often bought them. I honestly don't understand why you have such a hard time with this.
[theodessafiles.files.wordpress.com image 334x450]

Yes, yes, I know, it was the land of chocolate rivers and gumdrop smiles.


At least you have the civility to admit you were wrong.
 
2013-05-06 10:04:29 PM

GUTSU: vygramul: GUTSU: "If you told them that technology would one day make it possible for black people and women to tell everyone what they're thinking, they'd probably reconsider the 1st amendment."

I answered this. Blacks and women were allowed to publish written works, to converse with other citizens. In the black's case he had to have not been a slave, many blacks in the south rich enough to afford slaves often bought them. I honestly don't understand why you have such a hard time with this.
[theodessafiles.files.wordpress.com image 334x450]

Yes, yes, I know, it was the land of chocolate rivers and gumdrop smiles.

At least you have the civility to admit you were wrong.


About what? Trotting out a couple of atypical examples doesn't disprove the general case.
 
2013-05-06 11:24:23 PM

mike_the_engineer: How is the anti-gun crowd this clueless?  If you tried to fire this, the chamber would EXPLODE because it's made of farking PLASTIC.  Real gun barrels are made of chromoly steel, and that's done for a very good reason.  You MIGHT be able to get away with aluminum if it's a .22 or something, but plastic doesn't have anywhere near the required tensile strength.


[assets.nydailynews.com image 635x422]



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