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(Vice)   Turns out, some homeschooled kids are a little weird   (vice.com) divider line 97
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22021 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 May 2013 at 10:54 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-05 09:00:53 AM  
13 votes:
I've known a few home schooled kids casually, and without exception they are socially inept.  Smart?  Meh.  About as smart as any other kid.  But socially akward.

I teach my daughter all that she needs to know, she's in Kindergarten but reading at least at a 3rd grade level.  She doesn't go to school to learn, she goes to school to make friends, and learn that while in this household she is the princess, in the rest of the world she's just another kid.  It's important to learn those lessons, and make those friends.
2013-05-05 09:05:49 AM  
7 votes:
So are some public-schooled kids, private-schooled kids, parochial-schooled kids, and completely unschooled kids.

But unless someone confirms to me that TFA includes statistics showing homeschooled kids are statistically weirder than non-homeschooled kids, I ain't clicking.
2013-05-05 11:26:03 AM  
5 votes:

j0ndas: Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.

By the way, funny fact - that button mentioned in the article "Home's cool... Homeschool!" was probably sold by me personally at one of the conventions we went to back then. I and/or my brother usually manned our booth, and we'd sell about $100 of buttons on the side. Man, the button-making device gave us blisters, though.


I hope this is a clever troll because you come off as rather unpleasant.
2013-05-05 11:35:11 AM  
4 votes:

Stone Meadow: This is why the US should have a no-homeschooling law like Germany.


I would not choose homeschooling for my own children, but neither would I choose Germany as my model for civil liberty.
2013-05-05 08:18:29 AM  
4 votes:
Homeschooling really cuts down on the options for teacher-student sex, but when it happens, oh, boy!
2013-05-05 08:06:16 AM  
4 votes:
The scariest thing I can think of is this guy is probably not exaggerating about the kids he met.
2013-05-05 11:38:01 AM  
3 votes:
Ah yes, homeschooling.  One of the suppliers of "Weird kids who often have massive gaps in their history and social science educations, leading them to vote for regressive policies."  At least in the modern era there is hope the kids will make it onto the internet one day and educate themselves.

The big issue with home schooling is that the kids who excel are the kids who have intelligent parents to serve as teachers and are motivated or able to be motivated by their parents.  My kids would come home from public school with their homework already done which left us with plenty of time in the evenings and weekends for side projects.  So the kids get all the benefits of socialization and advanced classes.  Go to school, learn to function in a formal academic environment (of sorts), and then pursue specific interests at home.  Public school is free, so you might as well use it.  You don't need someone that skilled to teach basic math, so just outsource that kind of education to school and free up both parents to work.  The second income is going to help you in terms of access to summer programs, colleges, more than picking up calculus a year early.

/plus I'm in no hurry to host a chemistry lab in my house or barn
2013-05-05 11:31:11 AM  
3 votes:
This is why the US should have a no-homeschooling law like Germany.
2013-05-05 11:09:18 AM  
3 votes:

Notabunny: fta For some other kids, though, it was a means of escaping the evil, secularist curriculum of public school. The Earth is 6,000 years old, global warming is a myth, Satan buried dinosaur bones in the ground to trick us, and these children must not be taught otherwise, lest the fiery lakes of hell burn the flesh from their little limbs.

One of my Teabagger coworkers has 8 or 9 (or 10) kids, and this is the reason he homeschooled them. He explained to me how scientists lie about the age of fossils. It seems that those sneaky scientists only ever talk about the fossils which lay horizontally within a single layer of sedimentary rock. They never mention all the fossils which are deposited vertically across several layers. To my coworker and his kids, this proves two things: 1) Scientists are liars, and 2) The Earth is only a few thousand years old. Really.


I home school my kids for the exact opposite reason. I don't want some idiot teaching them that "Jesus rode dinosaurs, so vote against gay people!" I'm an atheist, but my wife isn't, so we have a unique balance, and let the kids choose their own beliefs.

Though, I can tell you now, they'd better not ever bring up any Earth is only 6000 years old stuff.
2013-05-05 11:07:23 AM  
3 votes:

But Wait There's More: So are some public-schooled kids, private-schooled kids, parochial-schooled kids, and completely unschooled kids.

But unless someone confirms to me that TFA includes statistics showing homeschooled kids are statistically weirder than non-homeschooled kids, I ain't clicking.


s9.postimg.org

There. Now go read the article.
2013-05-05 10:57:41 AM  
3 votes:

Popcorn Johnny: Buy they have great teeth.


Beat me to it.

i169.photobucket.com
2013-05-05 09:52:01 AM  
3 votes:
fta For some other kids, though, it was a means of escaping the evil, secularist curriculum of public school. The Earth is 6,000 years old, global warming is a myth, Satan buried dinosaur bones in the ground to trick us, and these children must not be taught otherwise, lest the fiery lakes of hell burn the flesh from their little limbs.

One of my Teabagger coworkers has 8 or 9 (or 10) kids, and this is the reason he homeschooled them. He explained to me how scientists lie about the age of fossils. It seems that those sneaky scientists only ever talk about the fossils which lay horizontally within a single layer of sedimentary rock. They never mention all the fossils which are deposited vertically across several layers. To my coworker and his kids, this proves two things: 1) Scientists are liars, and 2) The Earth is only a few thousand years old. Really.
2013-05-05 11:13:14 PM  
2 votes:
I think homeschooling is great. The more people who are home-schooled, the less competition there will be for the few STEM jobs that haven't been off-shored or displaced by H-1Bs.
2013-05-05 10:30:39 PM  
2 votes:

loonatic112358: Also, lack of a degree does not mean that a person is unqualified, all it means is that they were unable to attend college/university


Sure, it is possible that someone who hasn't been to college might do a good job preparing someone for college - though difficult since they may have warped views about college. Overconfidence from lack of experience can really mess up things. Stupid or unknowledgeable people tend to overestimate their abilities because they don't know better.

High schools require their teachers to be college grads so at least they have some direct knowledge of what they should be preparing the students for.

Some of the problems with homeschoolers is that they are trying to clone themselves and if their kids are stupid in the same way they are then that is good.
2013-05-05 03:16:59 PM  
2 votes:

aevorea: I'm a special ed teaching assistant. I work with special ed kids in the mainstream classroom



Our oldest son has been in "special ed" since grade 3, he's 15 now.  The majority of what I have seen of the Special Education system has been one horrifying nightmare after another punctuated by seasonal meetings that last up to 3 hours with groups of 5 to 15 people (including superintendents, teachers, faculty of all sorts and visiting "specialist" of every sort).  The meetings mostly seem to serve the purpose of having all the senior members pat each other on the back and our sons name occasionally thrown into the conversation, usually by me or his mother.  His classroom in Jr. High was an abomination.  A storage room for teenagers in the furthest portable building on the campus.  It smelled of freshly cleaned urine and feces on every visit, there was visible damage on virtually everything.  The "students" spent their time playing on game systems they brought or watching cartoons on tv, there wasn't even a shadow of an attempt to educate them.  We would receive the usual report cards from the school:  Aced english, math, history, farking everything A to A+, they all did.  He never took a test. He could barely read or write, knew nothing of history but what we had taught him.  At one of the larger meetings I finally lost my shiat and raised hell about it.  They apologized and said they would look into it.  His next grades were all solidly 70 across the board on the next report card, and he still had not taken a single test.

Lady, if given the ability I would burn the whole damn education system to the farking ground.  No offense to you.  But what we have here is an atrocity, If I believed in hell I would hope they all burn.  But there is no hope, no change, no stopping it and our children serve no purpose other than to be chewed up by the machine and then shiat out into society.  I wish there was an affordable alternative to this other than refusing to play.
2013-05-05 03:02:59 PM  
2 votes:

mccallcl: Qellaqan: j0ndas: Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.

By the way, funny fact - that button mentioned in the article "Home's cool... Homeschool!" was probably sold by me personally at one of the conventions we went to back then. I and/or my brother usually manned our booth, and we'd sell about $100 of buttons on the side. Man, the button-making device gave us blisters, though.

I hope this is a clever troll because you come off as rather unpleasant.

Not really, no. What he's saying makes sense: home schooled kids spend more time with adults, so they act like adults. I don't have any opinion either way, except that you're probably just being sensitive. Lighten up.


See, that's the problem. They don't act like adults. They act like the veneer that the adults show. As we grow up, we build up layers upon layers of social masking. We learn to hide or project feelings and non-verbal cues over time by doing it and seeing how it works with others. So when a child hangs out only with adults, especially adults who have built up a thick layer of, how should I say it... bullshiat, then the child doesn't learn how to see through the bullshiat and thinks that how people act. Either the child becomes a bullshiatter or is susceptible to being bullshiatted.

Kids need to develop that social being by practicing with each other over the course of time as kids. Kids at first are terrible at bullshiatting and we learn how to be better at doing it and recognizing it over time. If you skip that part and just go to the "adults in the room" part, you will have adults who grow up to be socially inept.
2013-05-05 01:56:57 PM  
2 votes:
In families that home-school usually

1) The mother is unemployed and doesn't have anything better to do.
2) The family is cheap and in cases where the local public schools suck don't see why they should send their children to a private school since Mom is just as good as those fancy teachers.

#1 is often caused by "family values" that say a woman's place is in the home.

Cheapness is often self defeating - they won't move to a school district where the public schools don't suck because the taxes are higher, and heaven forbid that Mom get a job so that they can afford those taxes. Meanwhile houses in good districts are better investments than those where schools suck so home schoolers become trapped in declining communities.
2013-05-05 12:40:13 PM  
2 votes:
This just in : some homeschooled kids are clever children with clever parents teaching them better than the public system, many others are poorly socialised and receive a warped limited education that has little connection to reality.
2013-05-05 11:56:47 AM  
2 votes:
Agree with the article that there are two kinds of home schooled kids: Parents who do it because they want their kids to have a good education and can't afford private school and crazy religious people. The problem is you never know which one you're dealing with until you actually engage them in conversation.
2013-05-05 11:43:26 AM  
2 votes:
We've homeschooled our two teens now for around six years for several reasons, none of which are religious.  You likely do have a larger percentage of "interesting" - sometimes odd - kids and families in homeschooling circles because you do have families who think outside the box and don't automatically send their kids to automatron hell...er, school.

We've found homeschooled kids to be surprisingly mature, able to carry on conversations with adults or younger kids, not just their age mates, and I've had some fabulous philosophical discussions with some young teens.  The religious nutjobs get the press because they're weird 'human interest' stories, but be assured, there is a large, and growing, population of homeschoolers who choose this path because we believe it's the best option for our young family members to be productive, creative, happy, and balanced members of our society.
2013-05-05 11:38:50 AM  
2 votes:

Stone Meadow: This is why the US should have a no-homeschooling law like Germany.


Or at the very least cut to the chase and target the fundamentalist segment, that's the core problem right there and drags the whole subculture down with it.
2013-05-05 11:29:10 AM  
2 votes:

j0ndas: Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.

By the way, funny fact - that button mentioned in the article "Home's cool... Homeschool!" was probably sold by me personally at one of the conventions we went to back then. I and/or my brother usually manned our booth, and we'd sell about $100 of buttons on the side. Man, the button-making device gave us blisters, though.


People who adaance complicated arguments to the effect that they are "better educated" than other people invariably turn out not to be - like all bluster, it is a mask for insecurity caused by suspicion of ones deficits.
2013-05-05 11:20:49 AM  
2 votes:

Mock26: What is sad/scary about home schooling is that (from what I have read) most home school programs that you can use are faith-based.  That is all great and good if you want to teach creationism and all that, but not good if you want to teach real science.


Most "homeschool programs" that you see advertised are religious-based because there is little need for special secular homeschool programs.  Those programs are already available from the same textbook publishers that supply the school systems.

I homeschooled one of my kids from 6th-12th grades.  I used the same textbooks that the school used - from Prentiss-Hall and McGraw-Hill.  I simply registered with those companies as a homeschool teacher and I got to buy all the books I needed.

So there is ZERO problem with teaching real versus creationist science.  You only teach religious-based topics if you want to; you never have to.
2013-05-05 11:17:10 AM  
2 votes:
i915.photobucket.com
2013-05-05 11:13:04 AM  
2 votes:

Ennuipoet: The scariest thing I can think of is this guy is probably not exaggerating about the kids he met.


Nope, he's not.

I worked with a extreme-Christian-homeschooled-girl in Michigan.  It was her first real job and we were very likely the first people she had interacted with on a frequent basis who weren't connected to her church.  Hell, our manager had to promise her mom we'd drive her home every day.  It was three blocks away.

She wasn't as emotionally wrecked as the kids in the story, although she almost had a breakdown when we tried to teach her logic one day.  She was a sweetheart and I was mainly just pissed the f--k off she was going to have a f--king horrible time if she ever decided to leave the church.  She caught up on the social norm stuff pretty quickly but that something as just off was immediately apparent.

That said, she probably had a better shot than the ex-Scientologist home schooled girl with two kids I briefly knew while she was trying to tear herself out of the church...
2013-05-05 11:08:23 AM  
2 votes:
What is sad/scary about home schooling is that (from what I have read) most home school programs that you can use are faith-based.  That is all great and good if you want to teach creationism and all that, but not good if you want to teach real science.
2013-05-05 09:22:15 AM  
2 votes:
I wonder if the author knows that we up north learned that the Civil War was fought over states' rights as well.

That's all you'd ever see admitted from a war-era politician in public, anyway.

That said, I'm glad to know that there are some "normal" kids being homeschooled, that it hasn't been taken over 100% by the T-Rexes With Saddles Club.
2013-05-05 08:45:29 AM  
2 votes:

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Homeschooling really cuts down on the options for teacher-student sex, but when it happens, oh, boy!


And today, class, we will be learning about Oedipus Rex. There will be a hands on lab this afternoon.
2013-05-06 01:08:48 PM  
1 votes:

schubie: The article was okay but the examples of maladjusted homeschoolers were poor. Those kids sounded like they had emotional issues and/or were on the autism spectrum. I think public school would've been the worst place for them to be. I can only imagine the beatings they'd get both physically and emotionally.

If we can't afford a decent private school, my husband and I will homeschool our kid. Public schools are a meat grinder. All the worry about having socially well adjusted kids is a concern but "well adjusted" is a term used in factories for machine cogs that function correctly. I have higher hopes for my son.

The Prussian School System was designed to create obedient soldiers and factory workers who wouldn't get bored with monotony and would respect and crave authority. America is all out of factory jobs. It's a shiatty system and a big part of the reason why so many Germans embraced Nazism. (Godwinner!)

Our public schools are some of the best in our state (the bar is low) and we're keeping our son out of them to avoid the Jesus freaks (we were the first district to require "Evolution is just a theory" disclaimer stickers on biology textbooks.) Then there are the psychotic jocks, teachers who molest the kids, self imposed racial segregation, kids who are so spoiled that their first car is worth the last 4 of mine put together and general assholes.


check into some of the 'charter schools', if available... I live in Indiana... there was a big push by the GOP for school vouchers (get kids out of those 'evil' public schools full of those 'union' teachers and into nice Christian private schools... and more importantly get the money from the public schools into the private christian schools)... but one of the results was a very highly regarded charter high school opened up within our public school corporation... I'm not sure if this was the intention when it started, but what it quickly became was more like a gifted and talented academy than a regular public school... the teachers that chose to got there were some of the better ones in several areas... and the students that chose to go there were some of the best from several of the area high schools... they don't have all the distractions of a regular public school (sports teams...) but it is getting some amazing results.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/indiana/districts/ si gnature-school-inc/signature-school-7098

however, if you'll notice their enrollment is rather small and even more telling is the numbers per grade... 115 freshmen... down to about 60 seniors... the kids that can't cut it.. leave and go back to regular public high schools... but it is amazing what a school can be like when all the kids there are kids who really want to learn... none of the 'problem kids' go there... they go to regular public schools and take up about 80% of the teacher's and administrator's time and effort... while the 'good' kids get more or less ignored.
2013-05-06 01:09:23 AM  
1 votes:

Qellaqan: JWideman: Regarding the post up-thread...
This is what clever trolling actually looks like.

I dunno, the government rant's pretty cut and dried, everyone falls on the "you're nuts" side of the spectrum. (Actually, it was too dull to bother to read for me. I have no trouble believing in damaged thinking and there are too many examples to ever both with one of them except perhaps in person.)

The one above totally sounds like things "clever" kids would tell me as to why their parents told them they were special, rather than maladjusted. So it's either true or a good imitation, and seems to have drawn fire from both sides.

But whatever. Usually I find accusations of trolling really tedious, but if that one was constructed, I would find it impressive since it resonated with me.


To be fair, the Prussian school system did serve as the model for our public schools. But a lot of countries use it too, and for the same reason we do. Our problems are not born out of the model, but for several other reasons. A big one being that our education system is underfunded.
This system was chosen because it increases the overall education of a country's population, which has many benefits - less poverty, less crime, the country competes better in the world market, etc. Granted, the poorer members of the populace aren't as well-educated as the richer ones. However, the least educated person under this system is still more educated than they would be under the old system. The old system being private schools for the rich, and fark all for everyone else. I'm not sure what system the anti-schoolers would prefer us use. Any system that replaces the current one, with the exception of education only for the rich, would be at least equally underfunded.
2013-05-05 10:17:07 PM  
1 votes:

orclover: aevorea: I'm a special ed teaching assistant. I work with special ed kids in the mainstream classroom


Our oldest son has been in "special ed" since grade 3, he's 15 now.  The majority of what I have seen of the Special Education system has been one horrifying nightmare after another punctuated by seasonal meetings that last up to 3 hours with groups of 5 to 15 people (including superintendents, teachers, faculty of all sorts and visiting "specialist" of every sort).  The meetings mostly seem to serve the purpose of having all the senior members pat each other on the back and our sons name occasionally thrown into the conversation, usually by me or his mother.  His classroom in Jr. High was an abomination.  A storage room for teenagers in the furthest portable building on the campus.  It smelled of freshly cleaned urine and feces on every visit, there was visible damage on virtually everything.  The "students" spent their time playing on game systems they brought or watching cartoons on tv, there wasn't even a shadow of an attempt to educate them.  We would receive the usual report cards from the school:  Aced english, math, history, farking everything A to A+, they all did.  He never took a test. He could barely read or write, knew nothing of history but what we had taught him.  At one of the larger meetings I finally lost my shiat and raised hell about it.  They apologized and said they would look into it.  His next grades were all solidly 70 across the board on the next report card, and he still had not taken a single test.

Lady, if given the ability I would burn the whole damn education system to the farking ground.  No offense to you.  But what we have here is an atrocity, If I believed in hell I would hope they all burn.  But there is no hope, no change, no stopping it and our children serve no purpose other than to be chewed up by the machine and then shiat out into society.  I wish there was an affordable alternative to this other than refusing to play.


My brother is handicapped and we went through the system as well.

In Elementary school it wasn't so bad, he got bused to the "special ed" class at another school in another school district.

When he was about to go to middle school instead of sending him to the special ed class the local middle school insisted that they could handle my brother's case there... by throwing him in with the ESL kids.

They just wanted the extra special ed money and didn't give a damn, my parents had to put my brother in a private school about 1.5 hours away and then sued the district over it.

Thankfully it was only for that one year BUT we didn't get the private school money back until the case got settled a few years later.
2013-05-05 09:39:49 PM  
1 votes:

jso2897: How to educate one's kids is a matter of personal choice, and people make different choices in that regard for different reasons. it would be nice if people could respect one another's decisions on the matter, but to read this thread, that's a skill neither public  nor private nor homeschooling teaches.


See, this is where you fail. I don't have to "respect" anothers decisions on the matter if I think that they are stupid for doing so, and can explain why. I obviously cannot stop them from making those decisions, nor would I want to... but that doesn't mean that I should not express my opinion of the subject in a forum such as this one.

That's how free speech works. If you do something stupid I have the right to call you out on it, and you have the right to refute my opinion. To you "respect" seems to mean "I should be able to do as I wish and no one should be able to say anything about it"... but the real world doesn't work like that.
2013-05-05 09:35:23 PM  
1 votes:

mccallcl: Not really, no. What he's saying makes sense: home schooled kids spend more time with adults, so they act like adults. I don't have any opinion either way, except that you're probably just being sensitive. Lighten up.


Part of the public school experience is about learning how to govern yourself and get along in a group where everyone is on the surface equal, with the same status.  You can learn to choose a leader, to lead, to make alliances and consensus.

All the "talking to adults" stuff doesn't achieve that, because you're just putting the kid in an environment where social rules already determine who is on top and has to defer to whom.

The author of TFA strikes me as an unfortunate case if he already dropped out of college due to being unwilling to deal with rules.  He's missing out on all kinds of opportunities, really.

/at least in Japanese public schools it was that way
//but then the teacher doesn't step in to referee every little disagreement, either
2013-05-05 08:46:45 PM  
1 votes:

Mellotiger: Yep, that's how home-schoolers are. My only problem with the article is when he brought up the civil war. Thing is, it actually was about states rights and not just slavery. If it was about slavery, the emancipation proclamation would have happened before the war. Think about it. If the war was about stopping slavery, wouldn't slavery have been made illegal first and them the war would come after the south refused to comply?


And another who cannot make logic connections.
Lat me 'splain it to you, slowly... the Southern slaveholding states... fought as imagined sovereign territories... for the right... to own and traffic in... slaves. That is what they wanted the right to do, own and sell slaves. There was really nothing else that separated the two halves of the nation so distinctly as this.

Lincoln realized that the Proclamation would be useless unless those states were still part of the united states, so his goal was to make sure they continued to be a part of the whole, then apply the Emancipation Proclamation to the slaves held within. If you'll check, the Proclamation was signed in the third year of the war, january 1, 1863.
2013-05-05 08:41:45 PM  
1 votes:

ladyfortuna: orclover: This IS a bookmark first of all.  My wife, myself and my mother all homeschool my youngest son (9) and have done so for almost a year now.  The reasons we do so and what led us to such a hard decision would take a 20 page article to explain.  To sum up, fark public school system and the power abusing farks they harbor. Not to mention the psychotic little shiats who run rampant through the halls physically abusing anybody they wish.   Getting him out of that meat grinder probably saved his life or at least his future sanity.

Too farking much to say on the subject.  Would need hours and a few dozen drinks to get it all out.  Just.  fark that god damn public school system and those farking teachers and that god damn principal and those psychotic farking kids.

/fark AISD
Depends entirely on the school system. I grew up in Monroe County NY, which has both some of the highest property taxes in the nation but also some really great school districts. They also hired a no-nonsense principle at the high school right when I got there who dealt with fights by calling the police and having charges filed, which was a huge deterrent. I saw one fight the entire time I was there (three years - freshmen had a separate building), and it was during midterms when no teachers were around.

Anyway that district was so good that my sister said it was leagues better than the private university she taught at in NW Ohio. That should tell you something, both about the district and probably NW Ohio...


That is the problem with the American public school system, you have to buy your way into a good district and since school districts are locally based, it creates a very fragmented system.

I would much rather have it be state-based with it coming out of an income and corporate taxes. That way everyone gets equal funding.
2013-05-05 08:33:34 PM  
1 votes:

j0ndas: That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.


THAT is the problem. I don't want my children to "get along better with adults and less with most children", I want them to get along with their peers. I want them to get along with other children first. They will have the rest of their lives to be adults, they can get along with other adults then. Let them be shallow and vapid. Let them indulge in the latest fads. Let them do stupid things, as long as those things don't result in permanent injury or jail time.

Let them be children while they are children. They only get one shot at it. That is one of the many reasons why I think sending them to school with others is important.
2013-05-05 08:07:48 PM  
1 votes:
speaking of Europe, homeschooling is somewhat legal in France (as with many rules there, it depends on who you ask).

if your child has autism, you have two options: homeschool, or leave the country. it is still considered to be a psychological disorder and not a neurological one. most schools will not take autistic kids, and they are at risk of being institutionalized.
2013-05-05 07:32:53 PM  
1 votes:
Danny and Denny were strictly forbidden from ever watching television; I was shocked upon learning that 12-year-old Danny had never heard of The Simpsons, let alone watched an episode.

2.bp.blogspot.com

That's probably good thing, seeing as they're on it.
2013-05-05 06:47:31 PM  
1 votes:

simplicimus: Uchiha_Cycliste: simplicimus: Uchiha_Cycliste: leadmetal:
Corporate work isn't much different from school. It requires little effort but going above and beyond, thinking out of the box, and so forth are usually punished unless one has political protection. Pretty much like the school experience.

What sort of hogwash is this? I've worked for four companies as a HWe and this is the opposite of everything I've seen. You can't brush all of corporate work with such a broad brush. Though doing so appears to be consistent with your views of practically everything else.

The only issues with thinking outside the box are 1) having to repeat the idea over and over again,
each time using smaller and smaller words / buzzwwords and 2) goring someone's special project

I would argue that thinking outside of the box is what allows for more than just incremental improvements to products, in addition to significant improvements in both verification and validation. And while I'll grant that sometimes it can be difficult to get ideas accepted, sometimes the extra work is worth it

I agree that innovation is beneficial, and frequently difficult to get implement. On the other hand, management and consultants can pose quite an obstacle.


I think it depends a lot on the company where I have worked for the last 5 and a half years, management is really helpful. They do an important job AND they have the technical chops to assist in efforts. I think with respect to blocking outside the box ideas, ideally they only stand in the path of stupid ideas. Either way it's gonna take work to get something new approved, but if it's a good idea you'll win the battles and if it's a bad idea they will successfully prevent you and them from being hanged.
2013-05-05 06:30:09 PM  
1 votes:

marymarch: Germany may be very liberal, except if you want to homeschool your children.


Or if you're Asian. Or Romany. Or Turkish. Germany is still a spectacularly racist society, and that's not just Bavaria.
2013-05-05 06:15:58 PM  
1 votes:

JohnnyFootball: We are thinking of homeschooling our two children. One is starting middle school and the other is finishing elementary. Our oldest had to serve detention for the first time this year, he was reading a book from home in class. He had to serve detention for not following directions (he was told to sit quietly, not read. Our youngest brought home ten worksheets that were completely filled in, he told us they were "shut-up sheets" he worked on when he finished sections of the standardized tests before time expired. They get bored with the pace of learning, it's only a matter of time before the lack of effort school requires transfers to the rest if their lives.


At least see if you can transfer them to a different school

see if there's a magnet school in your area if you do decide to keep them in public school
2013-05-05 05:19:52 PM  
1 votes:

dumbobruni: dugitman: dumbobruni: cousin & her husband are anti-vax... assuming the kid survives their trip to India next year, of course.

No kidding. Yikes.

it really is quite something to behold. we can't dare question them, but the husband is very vocal in his criticism of others.

ugh, all around.

/he's a "hardcore libertarian"
//you don't say!


This sounds like the premise for Contagion 2. Jesus farking Chist.
2013-05-05 04:24:09 PM  
1 votes:
leadmetal:
Corporate work isn't much different from school. It requires little effort but going above and beyond, thinking out of the box, and so forth are usually punished unless one has political protection. Pretty much like the school experience.

What sort of hogwash is this? I've worked for four companies as a HWe and this is the opposite of everything I've seen. You can't brush all of corporate work with such a broad brush. Though doing so appears to be consistent with your views of practically everything else.
2013-05-05 04:23:43 PM  
1 votes:

orbister: nekom: I teach my daughter all that she needs to know, she's in Kindergarten but reading at least at a 3rd grade level.  She doesn't go to school to learn, she goes to school to make friends, and learn that while in this household she is the princess, in the rest of the world she's just another kid.  It's important to learn those lessons, and make those friends.

Did she have no friends before she went to school? Did she take no part in group activities outside her immediate family before she went to school?


In all fairness, in rural areas a child may well not. When the nearest child your age is ten miles away, the school day is the only time during which one might see other children. Not surprisingly, summers are a rather solitary three months.
2013-05-05 04:16:14 PM  
1 votes:

leadmetal: Trolling plus a lesson in trolling? You're going to have to come up with something more creative than 'tin foil hat and paranoid' if you want to get me on the hook. Also, Who says I want replies? I don't care if anyone replies. Anyway, I've used both statistics and personal experiences before in threads like this. If I really wanted to piss people off and get them to write flaming replies, I learned the hard way that's the way to do it. I'm not in the mood for that today, thus I've largely avoided both intentionally.

However, if you want to read how the modern form of schooling in the USA damages children, I recommend reading what John Taylor Gatto has written on the subject. You'll find all the supporting cites you should ever want there. If that's not enough there are other authors who have addressed where modern government schooling comes from and what it is designed to do that you could read for yet more.


I find Gatto's message noble but naively reliant on being encapsulated in the academic bubble without the real world costs such ideas would require.  It only works if you have a parent who's devoted to teaching their child and identifying the appropriate times to do so and capable of doing both rather well and throughout the child's developmental life.  Great for rich folk who can piss away a dozen or so years of their life for every child every generation just to mold the next and hope they got it right.  Essentially it'd have worked better with single income family models and every second parent has the background of psychologist & educator.  Unrealistic, completely and utterly unrealistic.  Then to extend that and suggest that all home school, even the nutjob bible thumpers' version is better then the public school system?  Nope, lost all faith at that point.

Textbook definition of academic pipe dreamer, he did good work but he should have stayed where he was and molded the structure he had control over more to his own image.  But until the world looks more like startrek's then this one, his ideas are laughably unrealistic, especially as is the suggestion its a viable alternative to what's in place now.  He would do great things if he lived in a star trek like utopia though, I give him that.
2013-05-05 04:09:56 PM  
1 votes:

orbister: FunkOut: This just in : some homeschooled kids are clever children with clever parents teachers teaching them better than in the public system, many others are poorly socialised and receive a warped limited education that has little connection to reality.


I guess what you just correct totally disproved what I said...wait, no it didn't.

I've known homeschooled kids. Their behaviour was like that of a foreign culture or alien planet, entirely dictated by the peculiarities of their own family. The ones I knew had no sense of personal space or boundaries.
2013-05-05 03:59:19 PM  
1 votes:
A friend worked in admissions at a fairly well respected university, and she said a surprising number of the homeschooled have something like a nervous breakdown or total academic implosion after the first or second semesters. Some students do- that's just the way of the world... some people have trouble adjusting. However, an inordinate number of the homeschooled seem to end up that way, to the point where it's almost stereotypical.

She since moved on to the fundraising department but before she left there were discussions as to whether or not they should be admitted in the first place given a large percentage of them flame out or just can't cope psychologically.
2013-05-05 03:40:09 PM  
1 votes:

leadmetal: Qellaqan: Not enough bites, eh?
\duh, almost every aspect about a lot of socialization is conformation. Is this news?

Disagreement with the commonly accepted trauma based method of conditioning people and making them conform does make it trolling. You can ignore the fact that it damages many children all you wish but it doesn't change that it does.


You come off as paranoid and tin foil hattish. Use statistics ( or even just personal stories) rather than your anger and fear and you will engender richer responses. Otherwise, what should people respond to?
2013-05-05 03:31:35 PM  
1 votes:
I don't think those kids were just being homeschooled, I think they were in a cult...
2013-05-05 03:00:23 PM  
1 votes:
For one reason or another, this thread seems in particular need of this image:

www.yalerecord.com
2013-05-05 02:59:06 PM  
1 votes:

Qellaqan: \\MO had slaves the longest, with MD I think, because the Emancipation Proclamation freed only slaves in the Confederacy, so yes I'm aware of its effects.


Actually, Missouri was the second of the border states to abolish slavery, just after Maryland and just before West Virginia.

This was before Juneteenth, and before most southern blacks knew anything about emancipation.

The last legal slavery was in Kentucky and Delaware, where it ended when the thirteenth amendment was enacted at the end of the year.
2013-05-05 02:52:14 PM  
1 votes:

orbister: Qellaqan: But seriously, people who say they get along with adults better than peers *aren't* more socially adjusted. They're less socially adjusted. Maligning your peers doesn't diminish the fact that even if they're so simple, you still can't get along with them.

Have you ever seen parents of toddlers trying to get them to play with each other? It rarely works, and that's because to a toddler, other toddlers aren't nearly as interesting as older people. Similarly, while its useful for a 14 year old to be able to get on with other 14 year olds, it's not nearly as useful as being able to get on with adults, because you spend one year of your life at school with a need to get on with 14 year olds and sixty years of your life needing to get on with adults.


I would say as a child I got along better with adults, since my only sibling was 4.5 years older and very bright. However it's one of those "badge of honor" statements that seem to flag people for bad thinking because they turn their diminished ability to get along with a certain group into a point of pride. They're mature!

It's like those girls who say, "I just don't get along with other girls, guys are so much more chill." Speaking as someone who grew up around more men than women I often socialize better with men too. But god if most of the people who say it aren't maladjusted, or even a bit hostile to the group that "doesn't get them".

\I'm equal opportunity antisocial!
2013-05-05 02:51:44 PM  
1 votes:

Xythero: odinsposse: The Civil War was about preserving the Union. However the South undeniably left because they felt their right to own slaves was in danger.

If it was about preserving the Union, the North could have capitulated to the South on the issue of slavery and avoided the war altogether.  They didn't.


Yet somehow the Union was preserved. I don't think you thought your point out very well.
2013-05-05 02:45:56 PM  
1 votes:

Mellotiger: Indeed, that is why I felt compelled to learn the actual history as pertains to my area instead of just going with my sixth grade history course. I'm not saying the confederacy was a good thing, I do not support slavery, but I also do not support flawed history. If the civil war was solely about ending slavery, the emancipation proclamation would have happened BEFORE the war, because you don't go to war with your own nation for not complying with something that hasn't happened yet. Simple, really.


I don't know what they teach in Mississippi but in Alabama they taught 'States Rights' during elementary school but by jr. high, the lessons changed over to slavery being the cause. As for why the South left before the emancipation proclamation, simple really: 1) they could see the writing on the wall as Lincoln was known to be hostile to the idea of slavery even if he hadn't said he was going to end it and 2) since there weren't going to be any more slave states allowed to join the Union, the South was going to lose it's ability to keep slavery legal. They could see it would be just a matter of time before the rest of the country outlawed the basis of the southern economy. They weren't going to wait for that to happen first.

/Do you also around your friends call it the War of Northern Aggression?
2013-05-05 02:37:17 PM  
1 votes:

mephox: I thought it was a good article. Scary what some of those parents were teaching their kids, but looking forward, it's obvious they won't be able to cope with the real world, even as politicians. And that's sayin' something. That one kid who wanted to beat up other kids and kill stuff in the woods... Future serial killer.


I don't think you get exactly how horrifying that kid was.

It wasn't so much that he wanted to go into the woods and kill things, or that he wanted to beat kids up.

It was that he had so little idea of social interaction that he based it entirely off of made-for-kids TV, where there is always some dilemma like that. It's like he couldn't realize that in real life people just hang out.

/That's what I got out of that section.
2013-05-05 02:37:09 PM  
1 votes:

JohnnyFootball: KilaKitu: We've homeschooled our two teens now for around six years for several reasons, none of which are religious.  You likely do have a larger percentage of "interesting" - sometimes odd - kids and families in homeschooling circles because you do have families who think outside the box and don't automatically send their kids to automatron hell...er, school.

We've found homeschooled kids to be surprisingly mature, able to carry on conversations with adults or younger kids, not just their age mates, and I've had some fabulous philosophical discussions with some young teens.  The religious nutjobs get the press because they're weird 'human interest' stories, but be assured, there is a large, and growing, population of homeschoolers who choose this path because we believe it's the best option for our young family members to be productive, creative, happy, and balanced members of our society.

We are thinking of homeschooling our two children. One is starting middle school and the other is finishing elementary. Our oldest had to serve detention for the first time this year, he was reading a book from home in class. He had to serve detention for not following directions (he was told to sit quietly, not read. Our youngest brought home ten worksheets that were completely filled in, he told us they were "shut-up sheets" he worked on when he finished sections of the standardized tests before time expired. They get bored with the pace of learning, it's only a matter of time before the lack of effort school requires transfers to the rest if their lives.


I'm a special ed teaching assistant. I work with special ed kids in the mainstream classroom, so they're given the same assignments as the 'mainstream' kids (though with slightly different expectations and/or extended deadlines). It's appalling the assignments that are given out to high school freshmen at my school. Many of the assignments are shut-up assignments and are things I would expect out of a younger student (Draw a picture representing imperialism vs. write a paragraph analyzing the pros & cons of imperialism). A study conducted recently showed that our high school seniors' lexile scores were far behind what a college freshman's lexile score should be.

I'm currently twelve weeks pregnant and am strongly considering home-schooling my child. My boyfriend and I are both intelligent and both involved with our community. We also live close enough to a large city that we'd be able to take our kid on field trips to assorted art and science museums. We don't feel threatened by viewpoints that differ from our own. What I do feel threatened by is the idea of my kid being utterly bored in school and 'acting out' (much like your kid being disciplined for reading instead of sitting quietly).
2013-05-05 02:34:23 PM  
1 votes:

mephox: I thought it was a good article. Scary what some of those parents were teaching their kids, but looking forward, it's obvious they won't be able to cope with the real world, even as politicians. And that's sayin' something. That one kid who wanted to beat up other kids and kill stuff in the woods... Future serial killer.


The blog was written about the author's experience in the mid-90s. It could very well be  current serial killernow. I wonder if his parents are still alive or have they been murdered in a grisly way.
2013-05-05 02:20:06 PM  
1 votes:

Too_many_Brians: I was that weird homeschooled kid- Fundie parents, socially isolated in Alaska, socially inept.  My mom pulled my brother out because he had a learning disability and so she yanked me out at the same time. Went for 6th, 7th, and 8th grades- you know those building block years. Sure I learned more, but she didn't teach me and rarely did anything to encourage me. First year out she tried to socialize me but then she got tired of setting those things up and just left me at home for most of the time. Except for church, lots of church.

Took me quite a while to rebuild a foundation for a personality, still not quite right.


I had a similar experience. My parents pulled my brother and I out of public school after I finished the 5th grade. The reasoning was dubious, but my mom had butted heads with the principal several times about sex ed and some other stuff. I was homeschooled for 5 years, starting in the 6th grade -- yes, highly-formative years.

I had friends in elementary school, but a lot of them had moved to avoid the middle school. My mom tried to socialize me. I played soccer in a rec league and was part of a homeschool bowling league that met once a week. There were also some other kids in the neighborhood I would play with, but they were on average several years younger. My point is that I had the capability of making friends if put in the proper environment, but the relative isolation of homeschooling was not that environment.

The level of education was decent, but not spectacular. The history and science textbooks were old (early 60s?), and included gems like "One day man might walk on the moon." The math books were ok, but neither of my parents had taken algebra and if I couldn't grasp a concept from the sentence or two of explanation in the book, I was pretty much screwed until I could figure it out on my own. My mom tried hard to help, but she really couldn't. There were several occasions when she would try to help by giving me sample problems, but would end up frustrating me even more. For example, I would come up with an answer of ".125", but she would tell me I had the wrong answer because the answer book was "1/8". She couldn't explain to me why the answer was wrong (it often wasn't), only that it was wrong. I had never had problems with math before, but I was convinced that I wasn't good at math and extremely frustrated. We ended up deciding that I should take bookkeeping as my math class my last year of homeschooling just to get me through it. It should be noted that this was in the early days of the internet and my parents didn't have it. The internet would have helped a lot.

I convinced my mom that I needed to go to public school for my last couple years of high school in order to prepare me socially for college. I then proceeded to go through a painful few years as I re-acclimated to society. My fashion sense was never great, but I was blind to fashion and stuck out like a sore thumb. I didn't get credit for some of my homeschool classes and I bombed a few placement tests, so I had to resign myself to spending an extra year in high school. I was also filling in the blanks in my high school transcript, so every year I took classes from every grade level (yes, I took a freshman class my senior year). Because of this, I really wasn't with the same group of kids for any significant length of time. I did have friends in high school, but they were mostly older coworkers. To add a twist to the story, I lost my drivers license when I was 18 because of a degenerative eye disease.

By the time I made it to college, I was pretty much up to speed socially. I socialized well and made lots of friends. I joined a fraternity my 3rd year because a lot of my friends were in it.

I now consider myself to be a relatively well-adjusted adult, other than my frequenting Fark.com. I have a beautiful wife, two kids, a nice house, etc, etc. The homeschooling experience wasn't entirely negative. I learned to teach myself, will continue to do so for the rest of my life.

I would never consider homeschooling my kids. Kids need to socialize, and if I feel like they aren't learning enough, I'll teach them when they're at home.
2013-05-05 02:08:04 PM  
1 votes:

PiffMan420: ongbok: odinsposse: mrlewish: Wait until homeschooling parents go after public school funds. Already did it with charter schools.

Charter schools are about big businesses wanting to get themselves a cut of public education funding like they did with prison funding. Home schoolers don't have the same kind of clout.

Just wait until some corporation decides to start a subsidiary company that makes and sells homeschooling packages.

Or religious organizations. I wouldn't be surprised at all if groups like Focus on the Family or the other huge fundie groups started getting into the homeschool racket.


Oh, that's already happening.
2013-05-05 02:04:15 PM  
1 votes:

ongbok: odinsposse: mrlewish: Wait until homeschooling parents go after public school funds. Already did it with charter schools.

Charter schools are about big businesses wanting to get themselves a cut of public education funding like they did with prison funding. Home schoolers don't have the same kind of clout.

Just wait until some corporation decides to start a subsidiary company that makes and sells homeschooling packages.


Or religious organizations. I wouldn't be surprised at all if groups like Focus on the Family or the other huge fundie groups started getting into the homeschool racket.
2013-05-05 01:57:02 PM  
1 votes:
cousin & her husband are anti-vax.

kid would have been homeschooled, but husband got a job at a private, hippy dippy school that doesn't require vaccinations, so the kid gets free tuition.

that only gets him to 8th grade though, not sure what they are planning to do about high school.

assuming the kid survives their trip to India next year, of course.
2013-05-05 01:45:45 PM  
1 votes:

DarthBart: John Dewey: What's with all the homeschooler and homeschooling parents on here?  Isn't it Sunday?  Shouldn't they all be in church or taking the sabbath or something?

Nah, I'm busy trolling the Jesus freaks with athiest posts on Facebook.  They'll see them in a couple of hours when they get home.


Why would you do that?
Much more fun to actually quote what the Bible actually says, instead of what they think it says.
2013-05-05 01:39:15 PM  
1 votes:
I had never even heard the whole "homeschooling is for fundies" stereotype till I got to college.  Where I grew up there were a few private christian schools and that was where all the ultra-religious types got sent.  My cousins in upstate NY went to parochial school and I once heard my uncle ask my father about christian schools around here.  He said something to the effect that "christian schools in this area are just places where conservatives send their kids because they don't want them going to desegregated schools".  I'm pretty sure he was right.  I think those schools fall into the category of "private schools where affluent conservatives send their kids so they don't have to deal with minorities and secular riffraff" and the aforementioned anti-science type places which cater to a less wealthy but more fundamentalist clientele.

All the homeschooled kids around me were either from hippy families who thought public schools were some type of soul crushing tool of the capitalist system and were into the whol unschooling thing, or other types of people to the left who didn't think the schools were challenging enough.  Most of the second type usually went to the Science and Math high school when they got older though.

I've met a few people who were homeschooled later in life and they were all pretty well adjusted.  It seemed they went that route because they had discipline problems, or had parents who were pretty ambivalent about schooling but had the drive to actually get educated.  Most of these people actually went to public school for some amount of time and had regular groups of friends so they didn't come off weird or anything.
2013-05-05 01:26:42 PM  
1 votes:

mccallcl: Qellaqan: j0ndas: Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.

By the way, funny fact - that button mentioned in the article "Home's cool... Homeschool!" was probably sold by me personally at one of the conventions we went to back then. I and/or my brother usually manned our booth, and we'd sell about $100 of buttons on the side. Man, the button-making device gave us blisters, though.

I hope this is a clever troll because you come off as rather unpleasant.

Not really, no. What he's saying makes sense: home schooled kids spend more time with adults, so they act like adults. I don't have any opinion either way, except that you're probably just being sensitive. Lighten up.


Lighten up?!?!?!?

But seriously, people who say they get along with adults better than peers *aren't* more socially adjusted. They're less socially adjusted. Maligning your peers doesn't diminish the fact that even if they're so simple, you still can't get along with them. I just utterly disagree with the whole "children who spend more time with adults are more mature" truism (calling all only children!). Children who spend more time with adults might learn to mimic adult social mores to a greater extent, but that isn't maturity. Socialization is really about getting along with everyone, or at least faking it.
2013-05-05 01:04:13 PM  
1 votes:

leadmetal: What I find amusing is the assumption that government school does not push it's own agenda of conditioning the children to believe certain myths. That the methods of schooling weren't developed around the needs of government and corporations. That the schools serve to preserve the status-quo power structure. That government schools are often used to experiment with social engineering. How those who want to create some sort of utopian society want children at earlier and earlier ages so they can put their values into the children instead of those of the parents.

It's this default that government and those in it have no agenda or beliefs what so ever that I find incredibly naive. As an adult I found that a considerable amount of what I taught in government schools was myth. I was scolded in class because I stated that gender was identifiable with a skull. In proper feminist dogma of the time I was told that only the proportions of the hip bone could indicate gender.  Being in Illinois the cult of Lincoln made sure we were never taught of his war crimes or violations of the bill of rights. Being in democrat controlled cook county when history classes rarely got to the 20th century we were told the myths of FDR which too ignored his evils.  I could go on and my government school conditioning was probably rather mild compared to what a lot of other children get.

To understand these things I learned where this system of modern government schools came from. About its Prussian origins and who implemented here in the US of A. It's quite interesting how people with economic and political power worked to shape the system of schooling for their own benefit. It is not unlike what those with over-powering religious beliefs do to their own children, but of course these people didn't stop at their own children. They wanted to do their shaping to everyone's children but of course their own. Their own children who would be raised to be the leaders.


What I find amusing is that homeschoolers assume the only options are homeschool and "government school".
2013-05-05 12:59:32 PM  
1 votes:

mrlewish: Wait until homeschooling parents go after public school funds. Already did it with charter schools.


Charter schools are about big businesses wanting to get themselves a cut of public education funding like they did with prison funding. Home schoolers don't have the same kind of clout.
2013-05-05 12:51:12 PM  
1 votes:
In my experience, a lot of them are home schooled BECAUSE they are weird.
2013-05-05 12:47:52 PM  
1 votes:

Gordon Bennett: cardex: Why is it that the people least qualified to teach anything are the ones that think they can teach everything

Incompetent people usually do vastly overestimate their own abilities because they quite literally do not know any better.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
2013-05-05 12:41:54 PM  
1 votes:
One day, our moms arranged for him to come over to our house for a day. He acted like a kid who had never had a friend, but had maybe seen how friends interacted on TV. "Let's go in the woods and kill shiat," he said. I told him we shouldn't kill anything, and several times I had to talk him out of throwing rocks at birds.

I don't see what's so unusual about that.

When I was a kid in the early 90s, the big fad going around our evangelical church was home-schooling. For those unaware, Satan infiltrated the public school system somewhere around 89 and began indoctrinating innocent children with liberal evolutionary rock & roll sex. But I digress...if you really loved your kids and Jesus, you'd pull them from public school and keep them at home where they can be kept pure and safe from Satan's big bang theory.

Thankfully my mom was a little more sane, but of the kids who did get raised in The Village...two brothers who were two of the most socially inept people I've ever met. They literally couldn't talk to people (and I literally mean literally). If you asked them a question they would look at the ground and grunt a "yes" or a "no", or maybe just shrug. Last I heard both were in their late 20s, still living at home, and had never so much as been on a date (but presumably still pure as the driven snow). Another girl comes to mind who is now in her early 30s and in  similar situation. Her dad believed anyone wanting to date his daughter should observe Christian-based "courtship" wherein potential suitors came and "courted" her at their house with them chaperoning. She currently still lives with them.

I do think it's worth pointing out that there was at least one girl I knew who was home-schooled who turned out normally, but her parents (while Christian) weren't the rabid fundie type. She was allowed to live a fairly normal life, minus public school. So I think the key here is the fundamentalist religion...the home-schooling just exasperates it, further isolating the child.
2013-05-05 12:25:04 PM  
1 votes:

KilaKitu: ...don't automatically send their kids to automatron hell...er, school.


I read this argument a lot, and it has some merit, I guess. True, school does teach a certain set of rules and insist that you follow them, but I think for a lot of us, that's not necessarily a bad thing. The world I entered after school had rules to follow, too, and deviating from them rarely, if ever, brought good results.

Yeah, some people, artists for example, can make it doing everything the way they want, but I feel some of the discipline I learned in school, the fact that whatever's it's all about it, it isn't about me, served me pretty well in life. No one I've ever met likes to be told what to do (as is shown in TFA), but I can't say it isn't an important part of growing up.
2013-05-05 12:21:19 PM  
1 votes:

Qellaqan: j0ndas: Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.

By the way, funny fact - that button mentioned in the article "Home's cool... Homeschool!" was probably sold by me personally at one of the conventions we went to back then. I and/or my brother usually manned our booth, and we'd sell about $100 of buttons on the side. Man, the button-making device gave us blisters, though.

I hope this is a clever troll because you come off as rather unpleasant.




Not really, no. What he's saying makes sense: home schooled kids spend more time with adults, so they act like adults. I don't have any opinion either way, except that you're probably just being sensitive. Lighten up.
2013-05-05 12:17:19 PM  
1 votes:
I was that weird homeschooled kid- Fundie parents, socially isolated in Alaska, socially inept.  My mom pulled my brother out because he had a learning disability and so she yanked me out at the same time. Went for 6th, 7th, and 8th grades- you know those building block years. Sure I learned more, but she didn't teach me and rarely did anything to encourage me. First year out she tried to socialize me but then she got tired of setting those things up and just left me at home for most of the time. Except for church, lots of church.

Took me quite a while to rebuild a foundation for a personality, still not quite right.
2013-05-05 12:16:34 PM  
1 votes:
Some famous homeschoolers:

Whoopi Goldberg
Hanson
Jennifer Love Hewitt
Moffatts (Canadian Hanson, apparently)
Frankie Muniz
LeAnne Rimes
Jonas Brothers

...and some current ones who homeschool their kids:

Will Smith
John Travolta/Kelly Preston

/Must be a xenu thing
2013-05-05 12:16:16 PM  
1 votes:

Mad Scientist: Popcorn Johnny: Buy they have great teeth.

Beat me to it.


i169.photobucket.com

Has anybody got a link to the original story behind this meme? It's been driving me nuts for years. The earliest reference I can find on Fark is December 2007.
2013-05-05 12:12:46 PM  
1 votes:

John Dewey: What's with all the homeschooler and homeschooling parents on here?  Isn't it Sunday?  Shouldn't they all be in church or taking the sabbath or something?


Nah, I'm busy trolling the Jesus freaks with athiest posts on Facebook.  They'll see them in a couple of hours when they get home.
2013-05-05 12:11:58 PM  
1 votes:

cardex: Why is it that the people least qualified to teach anything are the ones that think they can teach everything


Incompetent people usually do vastly overestimate their own abilities because they quite literally do not know any better.
2013-05-05 12:11:44 PM  
1 votes:

orclover: This IS a bookmark first of all.  My wife, myself and my mother all homeschool my youngest son (9) and have done so for almost a year now.  The reasons we do so and what led us to such a hard decision would take a 20 page article to explain.  To sum up, fark public school system and the power abusing farks they harbor. Not to mention the psychotic little shiats who run rampant through the halls physically abusing anybody they wish.   Getting him out of that meat grinder probably saved his life or at least his future sanity.

Too farking much to say on the subject.  Would need hours and a few dozen drinks to get it all out.  Just.  fark that god damn public school system and those farking teachers and that god damn principal and those psychotic farking kids.

/fark AISD


Why dont you tell us how you really feel?
2013-05-05 12:10:32 PM  
1 votes:

But Wait There's More: So are some public-schooled kids, private-schooled kids, parochial-schooled kids, and completely unschooled kids.

But unless someone confirms to me that TFA includes statistics showing homeschooled kids are statistically weirder than non-homeschooled kids, I ain't clicking.


It doesn't, but you should click anyway.  It's written by someone who was homeschooled as a child, and has first-hand experience with the subject.
2013-05-05 12:02:34 PM  
1 votes:
In 5th grade a friend of mines parents converted to mormams pulled him and his little sister out of school and cut contact with everyone both of the kids committed susicide before they were 18. Why is it that the people least qualified to teach anything are the ones that think they can teach everything
2013-05-05 11:54:49 AM  
1 votes:
What's with all the homeschooler and homeschooling parents on here?  Isn't it Sunday?  Shouldn't they all be in church or taking the sabbath or something?
2013-05-05 11:51:05 AM  
1 votes:
A lot of childhood is an exercise in conforming to the norm. Any eccentricity or deviation from the norm is noticed and ridiculed by children. Certainly home schooled kids are weird. But so are those pants, you weirdo.
2013-05-05 11:41:45 AM  
1 votes:

ThatGuyGreg: I wonder if the author knows that we up north learned that the Civil War was fought over states' rights as well.

That's all you'd ever see admitted from a war-era politician in public, anyway.

That said, I'm glad to know that there are some "normal" kids being homeschooled, that it hasn't been taken over 100% by the T-Rexes With Saddles Club.


States rights to own....  Hmmm, what was it.
2013-05-05 11:39:39 AM  
1 votes:

SundaesChild: I don't know any of the religious homeschoolers, but I know a handful of anti-vaxxer hippy types and those homeschoolers are a little.... slow.


Anti-vaxxers are the religious wackos of the left.
2013-05-05 11:39:20 AM  
1 votes:
This guy is basically me.

Same deal, moved to shiat tier school district in Virginia, ended up homeschooling as a cheaper alternative to private school.  Although I would go to a homeschool tutoring type facility 3 hours a day 3 days a week to learn from actual teachers and get help where needed... but the vast majority of stuff was self taught.

Myself and a few others were just.. normal people.  The "rest" were not.  I went to a public graduation ceremony with like 800 other homeschool children, and the main speaker went on a 5 minute rant about how gays are going to hell.  I thought my girlfriends (gay) aunt was going to explode.

Its a superior avenue of education for children with the drive and ability to self teach.  You can advance much more quickly than standard public schooling.  It does NOT take an entire year to learn.. well, fark.. anything.
2013-05-05 11:35:22 AM  
1 votes:

Qellaqan: j0ndas: Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.

By the way, funny fact - that button mentioned in the article "Home's cool... Homeschool!" was probably sold by me personally at one of the conventions we went to back then. I and/or my brother usually manned our booth, and we'd sell about $100 of buttons on the side. Man, the button-making device gave us blisters, though.

I hope this is a clever troll because you come off as rather unpleasant.


What do you expect? He's home schooled with poor social skills.
2013-05-05 11:31:12 AM  
1 votes:
All the home-schooled kids I ever knew, including three cousins, were "weird". They weren't necessarily socially inept, but they all had warped views on the world and lacked a big picture view of it which made some conversations particularly odd.

But, then, all the home-schooled kids I ever knew were from families of weirdos to begin with and the weirdness of the family extended just as much to kids who went to school anyway.

One particularly bizarre kid stands out for me. His family was a bunch of evangelical nutjobs and he bought into it part and parcel. In a speech class we had we were supposed to give a persuasive speech. His topic was the existence of god and his arguments in favor for god's existence were:

1. Bananas (basically, the Ray Comfort schtick)
2. Language is getting less complicated because Shakespeare is hard to read. No, he never got the irony about pointing at a guy widely known for neologisms as an example of somebody who lived in a time of "complex language". Nor did he explain what this had to do with god.
3. Something about paper being flat, I forget the specifics

So.... I don't know that I'd say home-schooling weirds kids. I'd say weird parents weird kids.
2013-05-05 11:30:54 AM  
1 votes:

ravenlore: Mock26: skinink: [i169.photobucket.com image 422x532]

OK, I have to ask, what is the origin of that meme?

Some dude once defended himself in a homeschooling thread by basically saying, "Hey, I was homeschooled and I turned out so well I landed this awesome chick!" Something like that at any rate.

She is pretty and looks like a nice person, but dude, that does NOT mean you turned out OK.

/also Firefox does not recognize the word "homeschooled"


He didn't turn out well enough to know that you don't post a picture of your wife in a Fark thread.
2013-05-05 11:27:11 AM  
1 votes:
I thought it was a good article. Scary what some of those parents were teaching their kids, but looking forward, it's obvious they won't be able to cope with the real world, even as politicians. And that's sayin' something. That one kid who wanted to beat up other kids and kill stuff in the woods... Future serial killer.
2013-05-05 11:27:03 AM  
1 votes:
I can't remember the last time I read the entirety of an article or blog post that Fark linked to.  Nice find, subby.

\grew up in rural Oklahoma
\\I know way too many of these homeschooled Evangelical people
\\\*shudder*
2013-05-05 11:23:50 AM  
1 votes:
I don't know any of the religious homeschoolers, but I know a handful of anti-vaxxer hippy types and those homeschoolers are a little.... slow.
2013-05-05 11:14:16 AM  
1 votes:

But Wait There's More: So are some public-schooled kids, private-schooled kids, parochial-schooled kids, and completely unschooled kids.

But unless someone confirms to me that TFA includes statistics showing homeschooled kids are statistically weirder than non-homeschooled kids, I ain't clicking.


Too bad, it's an interesting article.
2013-05-05 11:10:58 AM  
1 votes:

Louisiana_Sitar_Club: But Wait There's More: So are some public-schooled kids, private-schooled kids, parochial-schooled kids, and completely unschooled kids.

But unless someone confirms to me that TFA includes statistics showing homeschooled kids are statistically weirder than non-homeschooled kids, I ain't clicking.

[s9.postimg.org image 600x582]

There. Now go read the article.


hahahaha. awesome
2013-05-05 11:07:46 AM  
1 votes:
I know a guy who is in his 20's who was homeschooled.

He is socially awkward, believes in a lot of religious mumbo jumbo, and sells weed for a living because he can't get a real job.
2013-05-05 11:04:45 AM  
1 votes:
I love home-school girl. Poor thing.
2013-05-05 11:04:14 AM  
1 votes:
I went to public school where there were no weird kids or social misfits and everyone was well adjusted and popular.
2013-05-05 11:01:19 AM  
1 votes:

Mad Scientist: Popcorn Johnny: Buy they have great teeth.

Beat me to it.

[i169.photobucket.com image 422x532]



  thats alot of farking teeth....
2013-05-05 10:04:09 AM  
1 votes:
i39.tinypic.com
 
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