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(Vice)   Turns out, some homeschooled kids are a little weird   (vice.com) divider line 327
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22139 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 May 2013 at 10:54 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-05 08:06:16 AM  
The scariest thing I can think of is this guy is probably not exaggerating about the kids he met.
 
2013-05-05 08:18:29 AM  
Homeschooling really cuts down on the options for teacher-student sex, but when it happens, oh, boy!
 
2013-05-05 08:45:29 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Homeschooling really cuts down on the options for teacher-student sex, but when it happens, oh, boy!


And today, class, we will be learning about Oedipus Rex. There will be a hands on lab this afternoon.
 
2013-05-05 09:00:53 AM  
I've known a few home schooled kids casually, and without exception they are socially inept.  Smart?  Meh.  About as smart as any other kid.  But socially akward.

I teach my daughter all that she needs to know, she's in Kindergarten but reading at least at a 3rd grade level.  She doesn't go to school to learn, she goes to school to make friends, and learn that while in this household she is the princess, in the rest of the world she's just another kid.  It's important to learn those lessons, and make those friends.
 
2013-05-05 09:05:49 AM  
So are some public-schooled kids, private-schooled kids, parochial-schooled kids, and completely unschooled kids.

But unless someone confirms to me that TFA includes statistics showing homeschooled kids are statistically weirder than non-homeschooled kids, I ain't clicking.
 
2013-05-05 09:22:15 AM  
I wonder if the author knows that we up north learned that the Civil War was fought over states' rights as well.

That's all you'd ever see admitted from a war-era politician in public, anyway.

That said, I'm glad to know that there are some "normal" kids being homeschooled, that it hasn't been taken over 100% by the T-Rexes With Saddles Club.
 
2013-05-05 09:52:01 AM  
fta For some other kids, though, it was a means of escaping the evil, secularist curriculum of public school. The Earth is 6,000 years old, global warming is a myth, Satan buried dinosaur bones in the ground to trick us, and these children must not be taught otherwise, lest the fiery lakes of hell burn the flesh from their little limbs.

One of my Teabagger coworkers has 8 or 9 (or 10) kids, and this is the reason he homeschooled them. He explained to me how scientists lie about the age of fossils. It seems that those sneaky scientists only ever talk about the fossils which lay horizontally within a single layer of sedimentary rock. They never mention all the fossils which are deposited vertically across several layers. To my coworker and his kids, this proves two things: 1) Scientists are liars, and 2) The Earth is only a few thousand years old. Really.
 
2013-05-05 10:04:09 AM  
i39.tinypic.com
 
2013-05-05 10:53:00 AM  

But Wait There's More: So are some public-schooled kids, private-schooled kids, parochial-schooled kids, and completely unschooled kids.

But unless someone confirms to me that TFA includes statistics showing homeschooled kids are statistically weirder than non-homeschooled kids, I ain't clicking.


Nah, it's all anecdotal. In fairness, a large bloc of the home-schooled kids around here(Indiana) are evangelicals, and/or new-earthers. That skews the weirdness factor-- at least my perception of it anyway. He covers those in TFA. He also summarizes with this

I thought about it a few days ago and realized that this sentiment was probably a major factor in my decision to drop out of college after a single semester during which I almost never went to any classes. I felt like I did as that ten-year-old who decided he wasn't going to go to school anymore. It felt like gaming the system all over again. Most kids, after four years of college, would have endured 17 years of real, actual schooling, and I was escaping with only nine.

So he's no gem either.
 
2013-05-05 10:55:28 AM  
Buy they have great teeth.
 
2013-05-05 10:57:41 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: Buy they have great teeth.


Beat me to it.

i169.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-05 10:58:05 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: Buy they have great teeth.


No pic - no cigar, lazy-ass.
 
2013-05-05 10:59:06 AM  

jso2897: Popcorn Johnny: Buy they have great teeth.

No pic - no cigar, lazy-ass.


I have to agree.
Ahh, some things are timeless.
 
2013-05-05 10:59:38 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: Buy they have great teeth.


I knew that would pop up.
 
2013-05-05 11:01:19 AM  

Mad Scientist: Popcorn Johnny: Buy they have great teeth.

Beat me to it.

[i169.photobucket.com image 422x532]



  thats alot of farking teeth....
 
2013-05-05 11:01:22 AM  

ThatGuyGreg: I wonder if the author knows that we up north learned that the Civil War was fought over states' rights as well.

That's all you'd ever see admitted from a war-era politician in public, anyway.

That said, I'm glad to know that there are some "normal" kids being homeschooled, that it hasn't been taken over 100% by the T-Rexes With Saddles Club.


I don't think the sole concern with homeschooling is educational content. In fact, it isn't the reason i wouldn't  (and didn't) homeschool mine. I could have easily supplied a superior "education" at home. To me, that isn't the issue.
 
2013-05-05 11:02:38 AM  

Mad Scientist: Popcorn Johnny: Buy they have great teeth.

Beat me to it.

[i169.photobucket.com image 422x532]


Only took 10 posts to mention it, 11 to post.  Not bad....
 
2013-05-05 11:03:18 AM  

God-is-a-Taco: jso2897: Popcorn Johnny: Buy they have great teeth.

No pic - no cigar, lazy-ass.

I have to agree.
Ahh, some things are timeless.


It got done anyway - so it's all good.
 
2013-05-05 11:04:14 AM  
I went to public school where there were no weird kids or social misfits and everyone was well adjusted and popular.
 
2013-05-05 11:04:45 AM  
I love home-school girl. Poor thing.
 
2013-05-05 11:06:34 AM  
i169.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-05 11:07:18 AM  

WanPhat: I went to public school where there were no weird kids or social misfits and everyone was well adjusted and popular.


So you went to West Beverly High?
 
2013-05-05 11:07:23 AM  

But Wait There's More: So are some public-schooled kids, private-schooled kids, parochial-schooled kids, and completely unschooled kids.

But unless someone confirms to me that TFA includes statistics showing homeschooled kids are statistically weirder than non-homeschooled kids, I ain't clicking.


s9.postimg.org

There. Now go read the article.
 
2013-05-05 11:07:46 AM  
I know a guy who is in his 20's who was homeschooled.

He is socially awkward, believes in a lot of religious mumbo jumbo, and sells weed for a living because he can't get a real job.
 
2013-05-05 11:08:23 AM  
What is sad/scary about home schooling is that (from what I have read) most home school programs that you can use are faith-based.  That is all great and good if you want to teach creationism and all that, but not good if you want to teach real science.
 
2013-05-05 11:08:53 AM  
done been beat twice already, good work y'all

/homeschooled.tiff
 
2013-05-05 11:09:18 AM  

Notabunny: fta For some other kids, though, it was a means of escaping the evil, secularist curriculum of public school. The Earth is 6,000 years old, global warming is a myth, Satan buried dinosaur bones in the ground to trick us, and these children must not be taught otherwise, lest the fiery lakes of hell burn the flesh from their little limbs.

One of my Teabagger coworkers has 8 or 9 (or 10) kids, and this is the reason he homeschooled them. He explained to me how scientists lie about the age of fossils. It seems that those sneaky scientists only ever talk about the fossils which lay horizontally within a single layer of sedimentary rock. They never mention all the fossils which are deposited vertically across several layers. To my coworker and his kids, this proves two things: 1) Scientists are liars, and 2) The Earth is only a few thousand years old. Really.


I home school my kids for the exact opposite reason. I don't want some idiot teaching them that "Jesus rode dinosaurs, so vote against gay people!" I'm an atheist, but my wife isn't, so we have a unique balance, and let the kids choose their own beliefs.

Though, I can tell you now, they'd better not ever bring up any Earth is only 6000 years old stuff.
 
2013-05-05 11:10:58 AM  

Louisiana_Sitar_Club: But Wait There's More: So are some public-schooled kids, private-schooled kids, parochial-schooled kids, and completely unschooled kids.

But unless someone confirms to me that TFA includes statistics showing homeschooled kids are statistically weirder than non-homeschooled kids, I ain't clicking.

[s9.postimg.org image 600x582]

There. Now go read the article.


hahahaha. awesome
 
2013-05-05 11:12:14 AM  

FlashHarry: [i39.tinypic.com image 550x400]


Come on, that has to be a photoshop. Please let it be one.
 
2013-05-05 11:13:04 AM  

Ennuipoet: The scariest thing I can think of is this guy is probably not exaggerating about the kids he met.


Nope, he's not.

I worked with a extreme-Christian-homeschooled-girl in Michigan.  It was her first real job and we were very likely the first people she had interacted with on a frequent basis who weren't connected to her church.  Hell, our manager had to promise her mom we'd drive her home every day.  It was three blocks away.

She wasn't as emotionally wrecked as the kids in the story, although she almost had a breakdown when we tried to teach her logic one day.  She was a sweetheart and I was mainly just pissed the f--k off she was going to have a f--king horrible time if she ever decided to leave the church.  She caught up on the social norm stuff pretty quickly but that something as just off was immediately apparent.

That said, she probably had a better shot than the ex-Scientologist home schooled girl with two kids I briefly knew while she was trying to tear herself out of the church...
 
2013-05-05 11:13:13 AM  

jso2897: No pic - no cigar, lazy-ass.


You say that like it's a given that I have the picture saved somewhere.
 
2013-05-05 11:14:16 AM  

But Wait There's More: So are some public-schooled kids, private-schooled kids, parochial-schooled kids, and completely unschooled kids.

But unless someone confirms to me that TFA includes statistics showing homeschooled kids are statistically weirder than non-homeschooled kids, I ain't clicking.


Too bad, it's an interesting article.
 
2013-05-05 11:14:31 AM  

skinink: [i169.photobucket.com image 422x532]


OK, I have to ask, what is the origin of that meme?
 
2013-05-05 11:14:47 AM  
Who knew that kids who failed to develop socialization skills end up not being able to socialize with other kids.

Say it aint so.

/ even zoos force animals to attain socialization skills before unleashing them on a new environment.
 
2013-05-05 11:15:12 AM  
Out of a graduating class of 239, there were definitely about a dozen or so that were truly weird.  Of the 5 people I know who home schooled, 5 of them are truly weird.
 
2013-05-05 11:15:15 AM  
Most of what I know about home schooled kids is from Movie 43.


/Yeah, they are weird
 
2013-05-05 11:17:10 AM  
i915.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-05 11:18:37 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: jso2897: No pic - no cigar, lazy-ass.

You say that like it's a given that I have the picture saved somewhere.


That was my problem - I discovered, to my shock, that I didn't have it - but i won't let it happen again, and you'd better not, either. Let this be a lesson to you.
 
2013-05-05 11:20:49 AM  

Mock26: What is sad/scary about home schooling is that (from what I have read) most home school programs that you can use are faith-based.  That is all great and good if you want to teach creationism and all that, but not good if you want to teach real science.


Most "homeschool programs" that you see advertised are religious-based because there is little need for special secular homeschool programs.  Those programs are already available from the same textbook publishers that supply the school systems.

I homeschooled one of my kids from 6th-12th grades.  I used the same textbooks that the school used - from Prentiss-Hall and McGraw-Hill.  I simply registered with those companies as a homeschool teacher and I got to buy all the books I needed.

So there is ZERO problem with teaching real versus creationist science.  You only teach religious-based topics if you want to; you never have to.
 
2013-05-05 11:21:35 AM  

jso2897: That was my problem - I discovered, to my shock, that I didn't have it - but i won't let it happen again, and you'd better not, either. Let this be a lesson to you.


Lesson learned. You wouldn't happen to have a spare copy of Rainbow Brite girl, would you?
 
2013-05-05 11:22:01 AM  
Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.

By the way, funny fact - that button mentioned in the article "Home's cool... Homeschool!" was probably sold by me personally at one of the conventions we went to back then. I and/or my brother usually manned our booth, and we'd sell about $100 of buttons on the side. Man, the button-making device gave us blisters, though.
 
2013-05-05 11:23:31 AM  
I only knew one home-schooled family, but I really admired how they did it. The kids were mixed-race, so they were concerned what kinds of social messages they might receive when they were really young. So they home schooled and had the kids do club swimming every night of the week, in addition to other social outlets. They sent the kids to school for high school. The one is the first rhode's scholar from his college. Just because dumb people do it doesn't mean it's a bad idea. It's just a bad idea the way they choose to do it.

It's purely theoretical at this point, but I'm intrigued by the idea of home schooling my kids. All school taught me was how to look busy and make up fun things (an admittedly useful skill), but damn elementary school was light on learning. All I learned socially was how to be so weird that I was no longer appealing to pick on.
 
2013-05-05 11:23:50 AM  
I don't know any of the religious homeschoolers, but I know a handful of anti-vaxxer hippy types and those homeschoolers are a little.... slow.
 
2013-05-05 11:24:03 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: I worked with a extreme-Christian-homeschooled-girl in Michigan. It was her first real job and we were very likely the first people she had interacted with on a frequent basis who weren't connected to her church. Hell, our manager had to promise her mom we'd drive her home every day. It was three blocks away.


I worked with a girl like that my 1st job out of college, the good news for her was this business was full of 20 somethings and she was able to find a sympathetic roommate and work her way out of that life pretty quickly.
 
2013-05-05 11:24:29 AM  

RickN99: Mock26: What is sad/scary about home schooling is that (from what I have read) most home school programs that you can use are faith-based.  That is all great and good if you want to teach creationism and all that, but not good if you want to teach real science.

Most "homeschool programs" that you see advertised are religious-based because there is little need for special secular homeschool programs.  Those programs are already available from the same textbook publishers that supply the school systems.

I homeschooled one of my kids from 6th-12th grades.  I used the same textbooks that the school used - from Prentiss-Hall and McGraw-Hill.  I simply registered with those companies as a homeschool teacher and I got to buy all the books I needed.

So there is ZERO problem with teaching real versus creationist science.  You only teach religious-based topics if you want to; you never have to.


I was not aware that the textbook publishers had programs.  Thank you for clearing that up for me.  Of course, the only homeschooling I have done only involved things like, Sit, Shake, and Play Dead.
 
2013-05-05 11:25:31 AM  

Mock26: skinink: [i169.photobucket.com image 422x532]

OK, I have to ask, what is the origin of that meme?


Some asshat posted that pic in a Fark thread, said it was his girlfriend.  Other asshats picked him apart.  It was epic or something.
 
2013-05-05 11:25:58 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: jso2897: That was my problem - I discovered, to my shock, that I didn't have it - but i won't let it happen again, and you'd better not, either. Let this be a lesson to you.

Lesson learned. You wouldn't happen to have a spare copy of Rainbow Brite girl, would you?


No, but thanks for reminding me of that epic thread.
BTW - if you are going to GIS "Rainbow Brite Girl", you might want to turn on the adult content filter.
 
2013-05-05 11:26:03 AM  

j0ndas: Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.

By the way, funny fact - that button mentioned in the article "Home's cool... Homeschool!" was probably sold by me personally at one of the conventions we went to back then. I and/or my brother usually manned our booth, and we'd sell about $100 of buttons on the side. Man, the button-making device gave us blisters, though.


I hope this is a clever troll because you come off as rather unpleasant.
 
2013-05-05 11:27:03 AM  
I can't remember the last time I read the entirety of an article or blog post that Fark linked to.  Nice find, subby.

\grew up in rural Oklahoma
\\I know way too many of these homeschooled Evangelical people
\\\*shudder*
 
2013-05-05 11:27:11 AM  
I thought it was a good article. Scary what some of those parents were teaching their kids, but looking forward, it's obvious they won't be able to cope with the real world, even as politicians. And that's sayin' something. That one kid who wanted to beat up other kids and kill stuff in the woods... Future serial killer.
 
2013-05-05 11:28:14 AM  

Mock26: skinink: [i169.photobucket.com image 422x532]

OK, I have to ask, what is the origin of that meme?


Some dude once defended himself in a homeschooling thread by basically saying, "Hey, I was homeschooled and I turned out so well I landed this awesome chick!" Something like that at any rate.

She is pretty and looks like a nice person, but dude, that does NOT mean you turned out OK.

/also Firefox does not recognize the word "homeschooled"
 
2013-05-05 11:28:16 AM  

jso2897: BTW - if you are going to GIS "Rainbow Brite Girl", you might want to turn on the adult content filter.


Hahaha she's in the 4th row of results.
 
2013-05-05 11:29:10 AM  

j0ndas: Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.

By the way, funny fact - that button mentioned in the article "Home's cool... Homeschool!" was probably sold by me personally at one of the conventions we went to back then. I and/or my brother usually manned our booth, and we'd sell about $100 of buttons on the side. Man, the button-making device gave us blisters, though.


People who adaance complicated arguments to the effect that they are "better educated" than other people invariably turn out not to be - like all bluster, it is a mask for insecurity caused by suspicion of ones deficits.
 
2013-05-05 11:29:58 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: jso2897: BTW - if you are going to GIS "Rainbow Brite Girl", you might want to turn on the adult content filter.

Hahaha she's in the 4th row of results.


I never got that far.
 
2013-05-05 11:30:54 AM  

ravenlore: Mock26: skinink: [i169.photobucket.com image 422x532]

OK, I have to ask, what is the origin of that meme?

Some dude once defended himself in a homeschooling thread by basically saying, "Hey, I was homeschooled and I turned out so well I landed this awesome chick!" Something like that at any rate.

She is pretty and looks like a nice person, but dude, that does NOT mean you turned out OK.

/also Firefox does not recognize the word "homeschooled"


He didn't turn out well enough to know that you don't post a picture of your wife in a Fark thread.
 
2013-05-05 11:30:56 AM  
Finishing up our 5th year of homeschooling, so getting a kick out of this thread ;)

/so many anecdotes!
 
2013-05-05 11:31:11 AM  
This is why the US should have a no-homeschooling law like Germany.
 
2013-05-05 11:31:12 AM  
All the home-schooled kids I ever knew, including three cousins, were "weird". They weren't necessarily socially inept, but they all had warped views on the world and lacked a big picture view of it which made some conversations particularly odd.

But, then, all the home-schooled kids I ever knew were from families of weirdos to begin with and the weirdness of the family extended just as much to kids who went to school anyway.

One particularly bizarre kid stands out for me. His family was a bunch of evangelical nutjobs and he bought into it part and parcel. In a speech class we had we were supposed to give a persuasive speech. His topic was the existence of god and his arguments in favor for god's existence were:

1. Bananas (basically, the Ray Comfort schtick)
2. Language is getting less complicated because Shakespeare is hard to read. No, he never got the irony about pointing at a guy widely known for neologisms as an example of somebody who lived in a time of "complex language". Nor did he explain what this had to do with god.
3. Something about paper being flat, I forget the specifics

So.... I don't know that I'd say home-schooling weirds kids. I'd say weird parents weird kids.
 
2013-05-05 11:33:51 AM  
I went to public school from Kindergarten to 12th grade, and I'm still weird.
 
2013-05-05 11:35:11 AM  

Stone Meadow: This is why the US should have a no-homeschooling law like Germany.


I would not choose homeschooling for my own children, but neither would I choose Germany as my model for civil liberty.
 
2013-05-05 11:35:19 AM  

j0ndas: Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.

By the way, funny fact - that button mentioned in the article "Home's cool... Homeschool!" was probably sold by me personally at one of the conventions we went to back then. I and/or my brother usually manned our booth, and we'd sell about $100 of buttons on the side. Man, the button-making device gave us blisters, though.


They are also champion head-boilers!
 
2013-05-05 11:35:22 AM  

Qellaqan: j0ndas: Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.

By the way, funny fact - that button mentioned in the article "Home's cool... Homeschool!" was probably sold by me personally at one of the conventions we went to back then. I and/or my brother usually manned our booth, and we'd sell about $100 of buttons on the side. Man, the button-making device gave us blisters, though.

I hope this is a clever troll because you come off as rather unpleasant.


What do you expect? He's home schooled with poor social skills.
 
2013-05-05 11:38:01 AM  
Ah yes, homeschooling.  One of the suppliers of "Weird kids who often have massive gaps in their history and social science educations, leading them to vote for regressive policies."  At least in the modern era there is hope the kids will make it onto the internet one day and educate themselves.

The big issue with home schooling is that the kids who excel are the kids who have intelligent parents to serve as teachers and are motivated or able to be motivated by their parents.  My kids would come home from public school with their homework already done which left us with plenty of time in the evenings and weekends for side projects.  So the kids get all the benefits of socialization and advanced classes.  Go to school, learn to function in a formal academic environment (of sorts), and then pursue specific interests at home.  Public school is free, so you might as well use it.  You don't need someone that skilled to teach basic math, so just outsource that kind of education to school and free up both parents to work.  The second income is going to help you in terms of access to summer programs, colleges, more than picking up calculus a year early.

/plus I'm in no hurry to host a chemistry lab in my house or barn
 
2013-05-05 11:38:50 AM  

Stone Meadow: This is why the US should have a no-homeschooling law like Germany.


Or at the very least cut to the chase and target the fundamentalist segment, that's the core problem right there and drags the whole subculture down with it.
 
2013-05-05 11:39:03 AM  
I grew up long before the home-schooling craze and I can tell you there were weird kids from offbeat households in the public school system then.  The only real difference? They were right there amongst us so we could see their social awkwardness up close and nine times out of ten it came from some indoctrination they brought from home.  Sometimes, they brought a unique perspective to things and turned out to be pretty interesting folks.  Sometimes, they were downright sinister.
The closest thing we had to home-schooled kids were kids coming from Catholic School to high school.  Yes, the observations above applied to them as well.
 
2013-05-05 11:39:20 AM  
This guy is basically me.

Same deal, moved to shiat tier school district in Virginia, ended up homeschooling as a cheaper alternative to private school.  Although I would go to a homeschool tutoring type facility 3 hours a day 3 days a week to learn from actual teachers and get help where needed... but the vast majority of stuff was self taught.

Myself and a few others were just.. normal people.  The "rest" were not.  I went to a public graduation ceremony with like 800 other homeschool children, and the main speaker went on a 5 minute rant about how gays are going to hell.  I thought my girlfriends (gay) aunt was going to explode.

Its a superior avenue of education for children with the drive and ability to self teach.  You can advance much more quickly than standard public schooling.  It does NOT take an entire year to learn.. well, fark.. anything.
 
2013-05-05 11:39:39 AM  

SundaesChild: I don't know any of the religious homeschoolers, but I know a handful of anti-vaxxer hippy types and those homeschoolers are a little.... slow.


Anti-vaxxers are the religious wackos of the left.
 
2013-05-05 11:40:07 AM  
Some?
 
2013-05-05 11:40:45 AM  

Qellaqan: It's purely theoretical at this point, but I'm intrigued by the idea of home schooling my kids. All school taught me was how to look busy and make up fun things (an admittedly useful skill), but damn elementary school was light on learning. All I learned socially was how to be so weird that I was no longer appealing to pick on.


There's no reason you can't educate your kids and send them to public school. I was always ahead of my class in elementary school so I often read books my parents gave me during classes. There are plenty of resources out there for parents who want to do things on their own that are both educational and fun for kids.

Now look at me. I'm posting on Fark and doing a pretty good job of getting over my hangover.

/and other stuff
//but nobody believes internet bragging
 
2013-05-05 11:41:45 AM  

ThatGuyGreg: I wonder if the author knows that we up north learned that the Civil War was fought over states' rights as well.

That's all you'd ever see admitted from a war-era politician in public, anyway.

That said, I'm glad to know that there are some "normal" kids being homeschooled, that it hasn't been taken over 100% by the T-Rexes With Saddles Club.


States rights to own....  Hmmm, what was it.
 
2013-05-05 11:41:57 AM  
The part about the tiny classroom reminded me of some of the stories about schools in the '50s desperately trying to keep up with baby boomers. It was so bad in some places they rented house trailers.
 
2013-05-05 11:42:03 AM  

jso2897: Stone Meadow: This is why the US should have a no-homeschooling law like Germany.

I would not choose homeschooling for my own children, but neither would I choose Germany as my model for civil liberty.


Please don't hang up on Germany, as it is just one example. Homeschooling is outright illegal or virtually unknown in most of the world outside the Anglo-Saxon countries. (Source)
 
2013-05-05 11:42:45 AM  
I knew a crazy Christian chick who homeschooled her kid. Poor dude was socially maladjusted and was still pissing his bed much longer than he should have been. She had a rocking body though!
 
2013-05-05 11:43:00 AM  

scanman61: Qellaqan: j0ndas: Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.

By the way, funny fact - that button mentioned in the article "Home's cool... Homeschool!" was probably sold by me personally at one of the conventions we went to back then. I and/or my brother usually manned our booth, and we'd sell about $100 of buttons on the side. Man, the button-making device gave us blisters, though.

I hope this is a clever troll because you come off as rather unpleasant.

What do you expect? He's home schooled with poor social skills.


Hey, I stand proud as an example that we public school kids can be poorly socialized too.

\engineer- you seem weird and suspicious if you *are* socially skilled
\\they should be in engineering management ridicule
 
2013-05-05 11:43:26 AM  
We've homeschooled our two teens now for around six years for several reasons, none of which are religious.  You likely do have a larger percentage of "interesting" - sometimes odd - kids and families in homeschooling circles because you do have families who think outside the box and don't automatically send their kids to automatron hell...er, school.

We've found homeschooled kids to be surprisingly mature, able to carry on conversations with adults or younger kids, not just their age mates, and I've had some fabulous philosophical discussions with some young teens.  The religious nutjobs get the press because they're weird 'human interest' stories, but be assured, there is a large, and growing, population of homeschoolers who choose this path because we believe it's the best option for our young family members to be productive, creative, happy, and balanced members of our society.
 
2013-05-05 11:44:22 AM  
I get that the school district isn't up to snuff, but you don't need to pull the kid out of school to teach them what they should be learning.

Give the kids some challenging books on things he's interested in. Take him to science museums when he's on vacation. Sit him down for a half hour every day during summer vacation and make him do math drills. Let the kid skip a grade.
 
2013-05-05 11:46:49 AM  

odinsposse: Qellaqan: It's purely theoretical at this point, but I'm intrigued by the idea of home schooling my kids. All school taught me was how to look busy and make up fun things (an admittedly useful skill), but damn elementary school was light on learning. All I learned socially was how to be so weird that I was no longer appealing to pick on.

There's no reason you can't educate your kids and send them to public school. I was always ahead of my class in elementary school so I often read books my parents gave me during classes. There are plenty of resources out there for parents who want to do things on their own that are both educational and fun for kids.

Now look at me. I'm posting on Fark and doing a pretty good job of getting over my hangover.

/and other stuff
//but nobody believes internet bragging


Mainly a time thing. It would be great if there was a half time option for school. I understand homeschooling  often does those cooperative learning days-- they would doubtless be better if not in bumfark Georgia.

I taught myself a lot of things but school is designed to be time-sucking daycare to a certain extent. Plus not everything is self-teachable. What a treat it would be to send kids for language tutoring or learning carpentry but not completely suck away their creative play time.
 
2013-05-05 11:48:32 AM  

violetvolume: But Wait There's More: So are some public-schooled kids, private-schooled kids, parochial-schooled kids, and completely unschooled kids.

But unless someone confirms to me that TFA includes statistics showing homeschooled kids are statistically weirder than non-homeschooled kids, I ain't clicking.

Too bad, it's an interesting article.


This.
 
2013-05-05 11:48:57 AM  

HighlanderRPI: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Homeschooling really cuts down on the options for teacher-student sex, but when it happens, oh, boy!

And today, class, we will be learning about Oedipus Rex. There will be a hands on lab this afternoon.


On the plus side Mom wont be calling the cops after finding naked pic of the teacher on kids phone.
 
2013-05-05 11:50:18 AM  
If you are dealing with problems from homeschooling, reading Fark is not going to help in the cure.
 
2013-05-05 11:50:24 AM  
I reckon.

/gak
 
2013-05-05 11:51:05 AM  
A lot of childhood is an exercise in conforming to the norm. Any eccentricity or deviation from the norm is noticed and ridiculed by children. Certainly home schooled kids are weird. But so are those pants, you weirdo.
 
2013-05-05 11:51:56 AM  

Louisiana_Sitar_Club: But Wait There's More: So are some public-schooled kids, private-schooled kids, parochial-schooled kids, and completely unschooled kids.

But unless someone confirms to me that TFA includes statistics showing homeschooled kids are statistically weirder than non-homeschooled kids, I ain't clicking.

[s9.postimg.org image 600x582]

There. Now go read the article.


Catholic School girls are a great deal weirder than that.
 
2013-05-05 11:52:32 AM  

sjcpjh1: I knew a crazy Christian chick who homeschooled her kid. Poor dude was socially maladjusted and was still pissing his bed much longer than he should have been. She had a rocking body though!


So what I'm reading here is that you went right ahead and stuck your dick in crazy.

/can't blame you, tho...when I was young I got wood when the wing blew
 
2013-05-05 11:54:31 AM  
A friend I met in college was home-schooled and she's incredibly smart and got way more education than I have once she got started. It really floored me to learn last year that she's a creationist, but I guess when you're studying things like history/women in history and I think some kind of sociology, it's easy to avoid the science learnin'. I actually found out because I was complaining about someone else who is, but she and I agreed to disagree on the subject and move on, so we've stayed friends.
 
2013-05-05 11:54:49 AM  
What's with all the homeschooler and homeschooling parents on here?  Isn't it Sunday?  Shouldn't they all be in church or taking the sabbath or something?
 
2013-05-05 11:55:47 AM  
Scary what some parents teach their kids. They are teaching them things other people may not agree with. They have no business doing that, the state should take all kids as soon as they come out.
 
2013-05-05 11:56:47 AM  
Agree with the article that there are two kinds of home schooled kids: Parents who do it because they want their kids to have a good education and can't afford private school and crazy religious people. The problem is you never know which one you're dealing with until you actually engage them in conversation.
 
2013-05-05 12:00:06 PM  
Due to social issues, I was homeschooled but the sort that requires some sort of district-level oversight. I was allowed to come up with my own curriculum which I tended to breeze through in an afternoon. I think I conquered geometry in a couple of days. When my mom realized this meant I'd be out of high school by thirteen AND that my best friend from grade school had come back she talked me into slowing down and going back since I according to some doctors or something I had the intelligence but not the maturity. Me and my buddy proved this our first week back by hacking into the school's computer system and rather than changing anything, we just made certain keystrokes trigger a GW Basic program (it was a long time ago) that played the Star Spangled Banner. To keep us out of the computer system, and if we agreed to teach algebra, we could use the computer lab to play Sierra's King's Quest games whenever we wanted.
 
2013-05-05 12:00:14 PM  

robogun: Scary what some parents teach their kids. They are teaching them things other people may not agree with. They have no business doing that, the state should take all kids as soon as they come out.


I agree. There should be a law that forces facts to be taught in any type of school.
 
2013-05-05 12:00:17 PM  
So any idea what proportion of homeschoolers are the fundies who don't want their kids being exposed to the filthy science, gays and non-believers and which ones are doctors/researchers/whatever who simply want to provide more advanced material for their kids to tackle?
 
2013-05-05 12:01:21 PM  

odinsposse: Now look at me. I'm posting on Fark and doing a pretty good job of getting over my hangover.

/and other stuff
//but nobody believes internet bragging


the precedent has been set... if you want to prove how 'normal' you are after having been homeschooled... we're going to need to see at least one pic of your smiling, 'hot wife'.
 
2013-05-05 12:02:34 PM  
In 5th grade a friend of mines parents converted to mormams pulled him and his little sister out of school and cut contact with everyone both of the kids committed susicide before they were 18. Why is it that the people least qualified to teach anything are the ones that think they can teach everything
 
2013-05-05 12:03:36 PM  
We homeschooled my son 96-98 when we discovered that the Sumter, SC school system was hands down the most incompetent and useless one we'd ever seen (and I grew up/lived in Cleveland) .  We used a faith-based system, but it was surprisingly derp-free - I taught math, science, and history and made it VERY clear to the Former Mrs Coast that we would be discussing things that would upset some of her friends.  To her credit, she kept her mouth shut, and our son always did well all the way across the board.  We also made sure there was LOTS of interaction with others - in USAF base housing, there's no shortage of kids to hang out with.  Our son didn't really start to have academic problems until the Former Mrs Coast told me she had promised God that she would send him to a Christian school....and it was up to ME to make that happen.  Best and biggest Christian school in town turned out to be Christian in name only, and they just kept passing him as long as the checks kept clearing.
 
2013-05-05 12:03:57 PM  

Ronin_S: So any idea what proportion of homeschoolers are the fundies who don't want their kids being exposed to the filthy science, gays and non-believers and which ones are doctors/researchers/whatever who simply want to provide more advanced material for their kids to tackle?


If you're ok with data from 2007 (PDF) it was about 72-83% of homeschooling was done for religious or moral reasons.
 
2013-05-05 12:04:02 PM  

But Wait There's More: But unless someone confirms to me that TFA includes statistics showing homeschooled kids are statistically weirder than non-homeschooled kids, I ain't clicking.


Is this Denny or Danny?
 
2013-05-05 12:08:03 PM  

Mad Scientist: Popcorn Johnny: Buy they have great teeth.

Beat me to it.

[i169.photobucket.com image 422x532]


Ya know, I remember that thread.  And I recall feeling really really bad for the guy that posted it.  I don't suppose you recall how long ago that was ... ?
 
2013-05-05 12:09:10 PM  
I'll agree with the two types.

Anecdotal evidence time:  I know a guy that is in his late 20's now.  He was home schooled, and is very well adjusted socially, and it pretty damn sharp.  Good job, great spouse, and a new dad.  He's one of those guys that is respected and appreciated.  I don't know if he was home schooled for religious reasons or a lack of faith in the local school system.  Both reasons are plausible in this case.

I also know two girls (relatives by marriage) now in their late teens that were home schooled.  OK, I don't think they were actually taught anything other than how to take care of their much younger siblings.  They learned that lesson well, as both managed to get knocked up by age 16, and both had their second child by age 18, out of wedlock in both cases.  Their contribution to society so far has been to suck up benefits, and to serve as a lesson to others, including my own daughter.
And yeah, they were home schooled for religious reasons.  The local school system isn't that great, but they are a hell of a lot smarter than these particular parents.
 
2013-05-05 12:09:42 PM  
This IS a bookmark first of all.  My wife, myself and my mother all homeschool my youngest son (9) and have done so for almost a year now.  The reasons we do so and what led us to such a hard decision would take a 20 page article to explain.  To sum up, fark public school system and the power abusing farks they harbor. Not to mention the psychotic little shiats who run rampant through the halls physically abusing anybody they wish.   Getting him out of that meat grinder probably saved his life or at least his future sanity.

Too farking much to say on the subject.  Would need hours and a few dozen drinks to get it all out.  Just.  fark that god damn public school system and those farking teachers and that god damn principal and those psychotic farking kids.

/fark AISD
 
2013-05-05 12:10:32 PM  

But Wait There's More: So are some public-schooled kids, private-schooled kids, parochial-schooled kids, and completely unschooled kids.

But unless someone confirms to me that TFA includes statistics showing homeschooled kids are statistically weirder than non-homeschooled kids, I ain't clicking.


It doesn't, but you should click anyway.  It's written by someone who was homeschooled as a child, and has first-hand experience with the subject.
 
2013-05-05 12:11:44 PM  

orclover: This IS a bookmark first of all.  My wife, myself and my mother all homeschool my youngest son (9) and have done so for almost a year now.  The reasons we do so and what led us to such a hard decision would take a 20 page article to explain.  To sum up, fark public school system and the power abusing farks they harbor. Not to mention the psychotic little shiats who run rampant through the halls physically abusing anybody they wish.   Getting him out of that meat grinder probably saved his life or at least his future sanity.

Too farking much to say on the subject.  Would need hours and a few dozen drinks to get it all out.  Just.  fark that god damn public school system and those farking teachers and that god damn principal and those psychotic farking kids.

/fark AISD


Why dont you tell us how you really feel?
 
2013-05-05 12:11:56 PM  

j0ndas: That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.


Wait ... are you arguing that getting along with age-group peers is an unfavorable condition?  My experience is that many adults are as shallow and conniving as high schoolers -- the primary difference is that they hide it better.
 
2013-05-05 12:11:58 PM  

cardex: Why is it that the people least qualified to teach anything are the ones that think they can teach everything


Incompetent people usually do vastly overestimate their own abilities because they quite literally do not know any better.
 
2013-05-05 12:12:46 PM  

John Dewey: What's with all the homeschooler and homeschooling parents on here?  Isn't it Sunday?  Shouldn't they all be in church or taking the sabbath or something?


Nah, I'm busy trolling the Jesus freaks with athiest posts on Facebook.  They'll see them in a couple of hours when they get home.
 
2013-05-05 12:13:42 PM  

DarthBart: John Dewey: What's with all the homeschooler and homeschooling parents on here?  Isn't it Sunday?  Shouldn't they all be in church or taking the sabbath or something?

Nah, I'm busy trolling the Jesus freaks with athiest posts on Facebook.  They'll see them in a couple of hours when they get home.


I approve this message.
 
2013-05-05 12:13:46 PM  
Spending every waking minute with my Mom for eighteen years straight. I would sooner have been euthanized.
 
2013-05-05 12:13:49 PM  

Gordon Bennett: cardex: Why is it that the people least qualified to teach anything are the ones that think they can teach everything

Incompetent people usually do vastly overestimate their own abilities because they quite literally do not know any better.


There's actually a name for this: the Dunning-Kruger effect.
 
2013-05-05 12:14:12 PM  

cardex: In 5th grade a friend of mines parents converted to mormams pulled him and his little sister out of school and cut contact with everyone both of the kids committed susicide before they were 18. Why is it that the people least qualified to teach anything are the ones that think they can teach everything



Huh?
 
2013-05-05 12:16:16 PM  

Mad Scientist: Popcorn Johnny: Buy they have great teeth.

Beat me to it.


i169.photobucket.com

Has anybody got a link to the original story behind this meme? It's been driving me nuts for years. The earliest reference I can find on Fark is December 2007.
 
2013-05-05 12:16:34 PM  
Some famous homeschoolers:

Whoopi Goldberg
Hanson
Jennifer Love Hewitt
Moffatts (Canadian Hanson, apparently)
Frankie Muniz
LeAnne Rimes
Jonas Brothers

...and some current ones who homeschool their kids:

Will Smith
John Travolta/Kelly Preston

/Must be a xenu thing
 
2013-05-05 12:17:19 PM  
I was that weird homeschooled kid- Fundie parents, socially isolated in Alaska, socially inept.  My mom pulled my brother out because he had a learning disability and so she yanked me out at the same time. Went for 6th, 7th, and 8th grades- you know those building block years. Sure I learned more, but she didn't teach me and rarely did anything to encourage me. First year out she tried to socialize me but then she got tired of setting those things up and just left me at home for most of the time. Except for church, lots of church.

Took me quite a while to rebuild a foundation for a personality, still not quite right.
 
2013-05-05 12:19:43 PM  

KilaKitu: We've homeschooled our two teens now for around six years for several reasons, none of which are religious.  You likely do have a larger percentage of "interesting" - sometimes odd - kids and families in homeschooling circles because you do have families who think outside the box and don't automatically send their kids to automatron hell...er, school.

We've found homeschooled kids to be surprisingly mature, able to carry on conversations with adults or younger kids, not just their age mates, and I've had some fabulous philosophical discussions with some young teens.  The religious nutjobs get the press because they're weird 'human interest' stories, but be assured, there is a large, and growing, population of homeschoolers who choose this path because we believe it's the best option for our young family members to be productive, creative, happy, and balanced members of our society.


It's sad, really, seeing public school children pigeonhole themselves (most likely at the direction of their parents) into certain age ranges.  My homeschooled 10 year old met another girl a year or so older than her in a store a while back.  The girl asked my daughter what grade she was in.  When my daughter said "4th", the girl said "Oh, you're not in my grade.  I can't talk to you."
 
2013-05-05 12:21:17 PM  

Sofa King Smart: odinsposse: Now look at me. I'm posting on Fark and doing a pretty good job of getting over my hangover.

/and other stuff
//but nobody believes internet bragging

the precedent has been set... if you want to prove how 'normal' you are after having been homeschooled... we're going to need to see at least one pic of your smiling, 'hot wife'.


Well, if you insist

th08.deviantart.net
 
2013-05-05 12:21:19 PM  

Qellaqan: j0ndas: Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.

By the way, funny fact - that button mentioned in the article "Home's cool... Homeschool!" was probably sold by me personally at one of the conventions we went to back then. I and/or my brother usually manned our booth, and we'd sell about $100 of buttons on the side. Man, the button-making device gave us blisters, though.

I hope this is a clever troll because you come off as rather unpleasant.




Not really, no. What he's saying makes sense: home schooled kids spend more time with adults, so they act like adults. I don't have any opinion either way, except that you're probably just being sensitive. Lighten up.
 
2013-05-05 12:25:04 PM  

KilaKitu: ...don't automatically send their kids to automatron hell...er, school.


I read this argument a lot, and it has some merit, I guess. True, school does teach a certain set of rules and insist that you follow them, but I think for a lot of us, that's not necessarily a bad thing. The world I entered after school had rules to follow, too, and deviating from them rarely, if ever, brought good results.

Yeah, some people, artists for example, can make it doing everything the way they want, but I feel some of the discipline I learned in school, the fact that whatever's it's all about it, it isn't about me, served me pretty well in life. No one I've ever met likes to be told what to do (as is shown in TFA), but I can't say it isn't an important part of growing up.
 
2013-05-05 12:26:16 PM  

JonZoidberg: Mock26: skinink: [i169.photobucket.com image 422x532]

OK, I have to ask, what is the origin of that meme?

Some asshat posted that pic in a Fark thread, said it was his girlfriend.  Other asshats picked him apart.  It was epic or something.


About a year ago, I was driving down the freeway when I looked up at a billboard to see that pic! (the girl half anyway.)  It was an ad for a local dentist and I broke out into fits of laughter, my kiddo was in the car and couldn't figure out what the hell was going on (why is dad being such a wierdo).  I tried to explain to him it was something from the internet, so he cut me a break.

BTW, wasn't that the "girlfriend" claimed by our own holder of a GED in Law?  Or, am I mistaking him for another poster?
 
2013-05-05 12:27:33 PM  
As somebody who is about to get married to a former homeschooled kid, you are all the weird, socially inept ones.
 
2013-05-05 12:29:49 PM  
I went through the first 70 or so posts, then realized no one's done this post yet.

i.imgur.com

FWIW: I knew like 5 home schooled kids, all were kinda weird, but at least they weren't brainwashed fundies/scientologists.
 
2013-05-05 12:30:46 PM  
My mother yanked my half-brother out of Cleveland Public Schools... gosh, maybe 7th grade? He was born tongue-tied and had to have it surgically corrected, resulting in him having to learn how to speak all over again, when he was about 6. Before that we usually had to translate for him because it was really hard to understand him. Afterward he spoke with a lisp that never really went away. He is 21 now. Now, my mother went the Internet Schooling Route, and given how much he was able to get away with murder, I doubt that he ever really learned anything. So, to recap:

1) he is fat
2) his hygiene sucks
3) his only friends are on Xbox Live
4) rumor is that there is some girl coming around the house now, but I have never met her
5) doesn't have a license
6) doesn't have a job
7) hasn't left the house in at least two years, if not longer

I moved out when he was 7 or 8, so I never got to watch that decline. Thank god... I may have gone postal on my mother for just getting lazy.
 
2013-05-05 12:33:00 PM  
FTA: <b> The greatest risk of homeschooling, I reckon, is that your kid won't be able to properly socialize.  </b>

I think I've shared this tidbit before in one of the many other homeschooling threads, but it is too facepalming to not repeat:

Last year, we were at our Valentine's day party for the homeschool group we belong to. The party was in the middle of the afternoon on Valentine's day (Monday). There were 30+ families there (there's 80-something families on the membership roll). Out in the field, there were many children, ages ranging from 4 to 17, all playing together and having a great time. A guy came up to the parents and asked "What are you all doing? Kids not in school today?". He was told about the party and homeschooling and, I kid you not, the first question out of his mouth was "Homeschooling? What about socialization?".
 
2013-05-05 12:33:48 PM  

Anastacya:  So, to recap:

1) he is fat
2) his hygiene sucks
3) his only friends are on Xbox Live
4) rumor is that there is some girl coming around the house now, but I have never met her
5) doesn't have a license
6) doesn't have a job
7) hasn't left the house in at least two years, if not longer



...And his Fark name is...???
 
2013-05-05 12:37:14 PM  

j0ndas: Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.

By the way, funny fact - that button mentioned in the article "Home's cool... Homeschool!" was probably sold by me personally at one of the conventions we went to back then. I and/or my brother usually manned our booth, and we'd sell about $100 of buttons on the side. Man, the button-making device gave us blisters, though.


No, I mean weird as in 'not exactly like me and my friends.' I will not tolerate your diversity.
 
2013-05-05 12:38:36 PM  

orclover: This IS a bookmark first of all.  My wife, myself and my mother all homeschool my youngest son (9) and have done so for almost a year now.  The reasons we do so and what led us to such a hard decision would take a 20 page article to explain.  To sum up, fark public school system and the power abusing farks they harbor. Not to mention the psychotic little shiats who run rampant through the halls physically abusing anybody they wish.   Getting him out of that meat grinder probably saved his life or at least his future sanity.

Too farking much to say on the subject.  Would need hours and a few dozen drinks to get it all out.  Just.  fark that god damn public school system and those farking teachers and that god damn principal and those psychotic farking kids.

/fark AISD

Depends entirely on the school system. I grew up in Monroe County NY, which has both some of the highest property taxes in the nation but also some really great school districts. They also hired a no-nonsense principle at the high school right when I got there who dealt with fights by calling the police and having charges filed, which was a huge deterrent. I saw one fight the entire time I was there (three years - freshmen had a separate building), and it was during midterms when no teachers were around.

Anyway that district was so good that my sister said it was leagues better than the private university she taught at in NW Ohio. That should tell you something, both about the district and probably NW Ohio...
 
2013-05-05 12:39:13 PM  
Yes they're weird.

They're educated.

/pubic scroolers no habla
 
2013-05-05 12:40:13 PM  
This just in : some homeschooled kids are clever children with clever parents teaching them better than the public system, many others are poorly socialised and receive a warped limited education that has little connection to reality.
 
2013-05-05 12:40:31 PM  
I think anyone who has heard a Katy Perry song can agree that "the rhythm of pop music resonated with human cells at a frequency that caused cancer."
 
2013-05-05 12:41:25 PM  
When I was growing up, I knew a pair of kids that were being homeschooled. They were reasonably educated in everything except science. I'm not just talking about a general ignorance, but an angry - almost violent - response to any statement about how anything worked. One example that sticks out was when I tried to explain X-Men to them. That ended with me screaming that it was just fiction and the boy screaming that he hated fiction. The next day I dropped by to apologize. They wouldn't talk to me. Instead, their father explained to me that he had taught them that there's no difference between fiction and lying. He shut the door in my face when I pointed out that he was lying to them.
 
2013-05-05 12:41:54 PM  
One day, our moms arranged for him to come over to our house for a day. He acted like a kid who had never had a friend, but had maybe seen how friends interacted on TV. "Let's go in the woods and kill shiat," he said. I told him we shouldn't kill anything, and several times I had to talk him out of throwing rocks at birds.

I don't see what's so unusual about that.

When I was a kid in the early 90s, the big fad going around our evangelical church was home-schooling. For those unaware, Satan infiltrated the public school system somewhere around 89 and began indoctrinating innocent children with liberal evolutionary rock & roll sex. But I digress...if you really loved your kids and Jesus, you'd pull them from public school and keep them at home where they can be kept pure and safe from Satan's big bang theory.

Thankfully my mom was a little more sane, but of the kids who did get raised in The Village...two brothers who were two of the most socially inept people I've ever met. They literally couldn't talk to people (and I literally mean literally). If you asked them a question they would look at the ground and grunt a "yes" or a "no", or maybe just shrug. Last I heard both were in their late 20s, still living at home, and had never so much as been on a date (but presumably still pure as the driven snow). Another girl comes to mind who is now in her early 30s and in  similar situation. Her dad believed anyone wanting to date his daughter should observe Christian-based "courtship" wherein potential suitors came and "courted" her at their house with them chaperoning. She currently still lives with them.

I do think it's worth pointing out that there was at least one girl I knew who was home-schooled who turned out normally, but her parents (while Christian) weren't the rabid fundie type. She was allowed to live a fairly normal life, minus public school. So I think the key here is the fundamentalist religion...the home-schooling just exasperates it, further isolating the child.
 
2013-05-05 12:44:46 PM  

JWideman: They wouldn't talk to me. Instead, their father explained to me that he had taught them that there's no difference between fiction and lying.


Father was an engineer, I assume.
 
2013-05-05 12:46:33 PM  

cardex: In 5th grade a friend of mines parents converted to mormams pulled him and his little sister out of school and cut contact with everyone both of the kids committed susicide before they were 18. Why is it that the people least qualified to teach anything are the ones that think they can teach everything


I'm certain that happened.
 
2013-05-05 12:47:08 PM  

FunkOut: This just in : some homeschooled kids are clever children with clever parents teaching them better than the public system, many others are poorly socialised and receive a warped limited education that has little connection to reality.


So...time to feast on my neighbor's brain-goo?
 
2013-05-05 12:47:52 PM  

Gordon Bennett: cardex: Why is it that the people least qualified to teach anything are the ones that think they can teach everything

Incompetent people usually do vastly overestimate their own abilities because they quite literally do not know any better.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
 
2013-05-05 12:48:33 PM  

Shadowtag: Due to social issues, I was homeschooled... I think I conquered geometry in a couple of days.


Uh huh
 
2013-05-05 12:51:02 PM  
Wait until homeschooling parents go after public school funds. Already did it with charter schools.
 
2013-05-05 12:51:12 PM  
In my experience, a lot of them are home schooled BECAUSE they are weird.
 
2013-05-05 12:51:18 PM  

ThighsofGlory: cardex: In 5th grade a friend of mines parents converted to mormams pulled him and his little sister out of school and cut contact with everyone both of the kids committed susicide before they were 18. Why is it that the people least qualified to teach anything are the ones that think they can teach everything

I'm certain that happened.



I wouldn't be surprised as my brother eventually did and I've tried. Social isolation can have long term effects that don't cycle back for years.
 
2013-05-05 12:51:53 PM  

MustTryHarder: Shadowtag: Due to social issues, I was homeschooled... I think I conquered geometry in a couple of days.

Uh huh


He'd post more but I bet he has to be at the library in 26 minutes.
 
2013-05-05 12:58:44 PM  
What I find amusing is the assumption that government school does not push it's own agenda of conditioning the children to believe certain myths. That the methods of schooling weren't developed around the needs of government and corporations. That the schools serve to preserve the status-quo power structure. That government schools are often used to experiment with social engineering. How those who want to create some sort of utopian society want children at earlier and earlier ages so they can put their values into the children instead of those of the parents.

It's this default that government and those in it have no agenda or beliefs what so ever that I find incredibly naive. As an adult I found that a considerable amount of what I taught in government schools was myth. I was scolded in class because I stated that gender was identifiable with a skull. In proper feminist dogma of the time I was told that only the proportions of the hip bone could indicate gender.  Being in Illinois the cult of Lincoln made sure we were never taught of his war crimes or violations of the bill of rights. Being in democrat controlled cook county when history classes rarely got to the 20th century we were told the myths of FDR which too ignored his evils.  I could go on and my government school conditioning was probably rather mild compared to what a lot of other children get.

To understand these things I learned where this system of modern government schools came from. About its Prussian origins and who implemented here in the US of A. It's quite interesting how people with economic and political power worked to shape the system of schooling for their own benefit. It is not unlike what those with over-powering religious beliefs do to their own children, but of course these people didn't stop at their own children. They wanted to do their shaping to everyone's children but of course their own. Their own children who would be raised to be the leaders.
 
2013-05-05 12:59:32 PM  

mrlewish: Wait until homeschooling parents go after public school funds. Already did it with charter schools.


Charter schools are about big businesses wanting to get themselves a cut of public education funding like they did with prison funding. Home schoolers don't have the same kind of clout.
 
2013-05-05 01:04:13 PM  

leadmetal: What I find amusing is the assumption that government school does not push it's own agenda of conditioning the children to believe certain myths. That the methods of schooling weren't developed around the needs of government and corporations. That the schools serve to preserve the status-quo power structure. That government schools are often used to experiment with social engineering. How those who want to create some sort of utopian society want children at earlier and earlier ages so they can put their values into the children instead of those of the parents.

It's this default that government and those in it have no agenda or beliefs what so ever that I find incredibly naive. As an adult I found that a considerable amount of what I taught in government schools was myth. I was scolded in class because I stated that gender was identifiable with a skull. In proper feminist dogma of the time I was told that only the proportions of the hip bone could indicate gender.  Being in Illinois the cult of Lincoln made sure we were never taught of his war crimes or violations of the bill of rights. Being in democrat controlled cook county when history classes rarely got to the 20th century we were told the myths of FDR which too ignored his evils.  I could go on and my government school conditioning was probably rather mild compared to what a lot of other children get.

To understand these things I learned where this system of modern government schools came from. About its Prussian origins and who implemented here in the US of A. It's quite interesting how people with economic and political power worked to shape the system of schooling for their own benefit. It is not unlike what those with over-powering religious beliefs do to their own children, but of course these people didn't stop at their own children. They wanted to do their shaping to everyone's children but of course their own. Their own children who would be raised to be the leaders.


What I find amusing is that homeschoolers assume the only options are homeschool and "government school".
 
2013-05-05 01:04:28 PM  

j0ndas: Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.


You just smugged up the whole thread. Get over yourself.
 
2013-05-05 01:05:22 PM  

odinsposse: mrlewish: Wait until homeschooling parents go after public school funds. Already did it with charter schools.

Charter schools are about big businesses wanting to get themselves a cut of public education funding like they did with prison funding. Home schoolers don't have the same kind of clout.


Just wait until some corporation decides to start a subsidiary company that makes and sells homeschooling packages.
 
2013-05-05 01:06:01 PM  

FunkOut: This just in : some a few home-schooled kids are clever children with clever parents teaching them better than the public system, many most others are poorly socialized and receive a warped limited education that has little connection to reality.


FTFY
 
2013-05-05 01:07:11 PM  

MustTryHarder: Shadowtag: Due to social issues, I was homeschooled... I think I conquered geometry in a couple of days.

Uh huh


There may not be a royal road to geometry, but there appears to be a homeschooled one, eh?
 
2013-05-05 01:07:55 PM  

ongbok: Just wait until some corporation decides to start a subsidiary company that makes and sells homeschooling packages.


There are a ton of Christian homeschooling companies that do this already.
 
2013-05-05 01:12:01 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: ongbok: Just wait until some corporation decides to start a subsidiary company that makes and sells homeschooling packages.

There are a ton of Christian homeschooling companies that do this already.


I'm talking about a mega corporation. Like the type that have the money to buy politicians. I'm talking about something like they did with for profit colleges.
 
2013-05-05 01:18:57 PM  

Dragonflew: j0ndas: Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.

You just smugged up the whole thread. Get over yourself.


Counter point: My daughter is a G&T, so public school was more of a socialization experience. As far as education, I spent an hour or so every evening with her correcting what she had learned in school.
/Texas
 
2013-05-05 01:24:20 PM  

HeartBurnKid: What I find amusing is that homeschoolers assume the only options are homeschool and "government school".


What is even more amusing is how you are apparently assuming that I am a 'homeschooler' when in my comment I mentioned that those with power have their children educated differently. You won't be seeing those kids in the government schools nor will they be homeschooled. I am just an observer with regard to how people 'school' their children.

Also, calling a school system that is run by government 'public' is about as silly as calling a military base 'public' land or a city,state,county, or federal building a 'public' building.
 
2013-05-05 01:26:42 PM  

mccallcl: Qellaqan: j0ndas: Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.

By the way, funny fact - that button mentioned in the article "Home's cool... Homeschool!" was probably sold by me personally at one of the conventions we went to back then. I and/or my brother usually manned our booth, and we'd sell about $100 of buttons on the side. Man, the button-making device gave us blisters, though.

I hope this is a clever troll because you come off as rather unpleasant.

Not really, no. What he's saying makes sense: home schooled kids spend more time with adults, so they act like adults. I don't have any opinion either way, except that you're probably just being sensitive. Lighten up.


Lighten up?!?!?!?

But seriously, people who say they get along with adults better than peers *aren't* more socially adjusted. They're less socially adjusted. Maligning your peers doesn't diminish the fact that even if they're so simple, you still can't get along with them. I just utterly disagree with the whole "children who spend more time with adults are more mature" truism (calling all only children!). Children who spend more time with adults might learn to mimic adult social mores to a greater extent, but that isn't maturity. Socialization is really about getting along with everyone, or at least faking it.
 
2013-05-05 01:29:02 PM  

leadmetal: What I find amusing is the assumption that government school does not push it's own agenda of conditioning the children to believe certain myths. That the methods of schooling weren't developed around the needs of government and corporations. That the schools serve to preserve the status-quo power structure. That government schools are often used to experiment with social engineering. How those who want to create some sort of utopian society want children at earlier and earlier ages so they can put their values into the children instead of those of the parents.

It's this default that government and those in it have no agenda or beliefs what so ever that I find incredibly naive. As an adult I found that a considerable amount of what I taught in government schools was myth. I was scolded in class because I stated that gender was identifiable with a skull. In proper feminist dogma of the time I was told that only the proportions of the hip bone could indicate gender.  Being in Illinois the cult of Lincoln made sure we were never taught of his war crimes or violations of the bill of rights. Being in democrat controlled cook county when history classes rarely got to the 20th century we were told the myths of FDR which too ignored his evils.  I could go on and my government school conditioning was probably rather mild compared to what a lot of other children get.

To understand these things I learned where this system of modern government schools came from. About its Prussian origins and who implemented here in the US of A. It's quite interesting how people with economic and political power worked to shape the system of schooling for their own benefit. It is not unlike what those with over-powering religious beliefs do to their own children, but of course these people didn't stop at their own children. They wanted to do their shaping to everyone's children but of course their own. Their own children who would be raised to be the leaders.


Regarding the post up-thread...
This is what clever trolling actually looks like.
 
2013-05-05 01:37:21 PM  

picturescrazy: Popcorn Johnny: Buy they have great teeth.

I knew that would pop up.


It will without fail show up in every thread mentioning home schooling until the end days. And as it gets more funny with each posting it will begin approaching a critical mass of mirth. Eventually there will be so much traffic from new people asking about it and being linked back to the original thread that fark will literally fark itself and the internet will divide by zero.
 
2013-05-05 01:39:15 PM  
I had never even heard the whole "homeschooling is for fundies" stereotype till I got to college.  Where I grew up there were a few private christian schools and that was where all the ultra-religious types got sent.  My cousins in upstate NY went to parochial school and I once heard my uncle ask my father about christian schools around here.  He said something to the effect that "christian schools in this area are just places where conservatives send their kids because they don't want them going to desegregated schools".  I'm pretty sure he was right.  I think those schools fall into the category of "private schools where affluent conservatives send their kids so they don't have to deal with minorities and secular riffraff" and the aforementioned anti-science type places which cater to a less wealthy but more fundamentalist clientele.

All the homeschooled kids around me were either from hippy families who thought public schools were some type of soul crushing tool of the capitalist system and were into the whol unschooling thing, or other types of people to the left who didn't think the schools were challenging enough.  Most of the second type usually went to the Science and Math high school when they got older though.

I've met a few people who were homeschooled later in life and they were all pretty well adjusted.  It seemed they went that route because they had discipline problems, or had parents who were pretty ambivalent about schooling but had the drive to actually get educated.  Most of these people actually went to public school for some amount of time and had regular groups of friends so they didn't come off weird or anything.
 
2013-05-05 01:39:23 PM  
Yep, that's how home-schoolers are. My only problem with the article is when he brought up the civil war. Thing is, it actually was about states rights and not just slavery. If it was about slavery, the emancipation proclamation would have happened before the war. Think about it. If the war was about stopping slavery, wouldn't slavery have been made illegal first and them the war would come after the south refused to comply?
 
2013-05-05 01:40:15 PM  

JWideman: Regarding the post up-thread...
This is what clever trolling actually looks like.


I dunno, the government rant's pretty cut and dried, everyone falls on the "you're nuts" side of the spectrum. (Actually, it was too dull to bother to read for me. I have no trouble believing in damaged thinking and there are too many examples to ever both with one of them except perhaps in person.)

The one above totally sounds like things "clever" kids would tell me as to why their parents told them they were special, rather than maladjusted. So it's either true or a good imitation, and seems to have drawn fire from both sides.

But whatever. Usually I find accusations of trolling really tedious, but if that one was constructed, I would find it impressive since it resonated with me.
 
2013-05-05 01:40:23 PM  

nekom: I've known a few home schooled kids casually, and without exception they are socially inept.  Smart?  Meh.  About as smart as any other kid.  But socially akward.

I teach my daughter all that she needs to know, she's in Kindergarten but reading at least at a 3rd grade level.  She doesn't go to school to learn, she goes to school to make friends, and learn that while in this household she is the princess, in the rest of the world she's just another kid.  It's important to learn those lessons, and make those friends.


Exactly.
 
2013-05-05 01:41:41 PM  

KilaKitu: We've homeschooled our two teens now for around six years for several reasons, none of which are religious.  You likely do have a larger percentage of "interesting" - sometimes odd - kids and families in homeschooling circles because you do have families who think outside the box and don't automatically send their kids to automatron hell...er, school.

We've found homeschooled kids to be surprisingly mature, able to carry on conversations with adults or younger kids, not just their age mates, and I've had some fabulous philosophical discussions with some young teens.  The religious nutjobs get the press because they're weird 'human interest' stories, but be assured, there is a large, and growing, population of homeschoolers who choose this path because we believe it's the best option for our young family members to be productive, creative, happy, and balanced members of our society.


We are thinking of homeschooling our two children. One is starting middle school and the other is finishing elementary. Our oldest had to serve detention for the first time this year, he was reading a book from home in class. He had to serve detention for not following directions (he was told to sit quietly, not read. Our youngest brought home ten worksheets that were completely filled in, he told us they were "shut-up sheets" he worked on when he finished sections of the standardized tests before time expired. They get bored with the pace of learning, it's only a matter of time before the lack of effort school requires transfers to the rest if their lives.
 
2013-05-05 01:45:45 PM  

DarthBart: John Dewey: What's with all the homeschooler and homeschooling parents on here?  Isn't it Sunday?  Shouldn't they all be in church or taking the sabbath or something?

Nah, I'm busy trolling the Jesus freaks with athiest posts on Facebook.  They'll see them in a couple of hours when they get home.


Why would you do that?
Much more fun to actually quote what the Bible actually says, instead of what they think it says.
 
2013-05-05 01:48:15 PM  
I don't have kids, so I have no dog in this fight. However I recently learned that Texas has a somewhat unique take on homeschooling.

/TL;DR version. While it can't be a sham, you don't have to show that your kids are learning anything either.
 
2013-05-05 01:48:34 PM  

But Wait There's More: So are some public-schooled kids, private-schooled kids, parochial-schooled kids, and completely unschooled kids.

But unless someone confirms to me that TFA includes statistics showing homeschooled kids are statistically weirder than non-homeschooled kids, I ain't clicking.


Not a single bit of data in it. It was pure ancedote. And speaking from personal experience, ancedotes  don't cover homeschooling well, because it  does depend on why you're homeschooling your kids. There are entire groups out there of parents who want good education for their kids. Those kids do fine. If you're an Xian lunatic, you won't.

/Former homeschooler
//Was usually much better-educated and better-adjusted than my age group, and it definitely helped my Asperger's--which, given that it was undiagnosed, is a minor miracle
 
2013-05-05 01:56:05 PM  

John Dewey: What's with all the homeschooler and homeschooling parents on here?  Isn't it Sunday?  Shouldn't they all be in church or taking the sabbath or something?


Why would I be in church?  I haven't been to church in years.

People homeschool for all sorts of reasons and none of the reasons forbid Internet activity on Sunday.
 
2013-05-05 01:56:57 PM  
In families that home-school usually

1) The mother is unemployed and doesn't have anything better to do.
2) The family is cheap and in cases where the local public schools suck don't see why they should send their children to a private school since Mom is just as good as those fancy teachers.

#1 is often caused by "family values" that say a woman's place is in the home.

Cheapness is often self defeating - they won't move to a school district where the public schools don't suck because the taxes are higher, and heaven forbid that Mom get a job so that they can afford those taxes. Meanwhile houses in good districts are better investments than those where schools suck so home schoolers become trapped in declining communities.
 
2013-05-05 01:57:02 PM  
cousin & her husband are anti-vax.

kid would have been homeschooled, but husband got a job at a private, hippy dippy school that doesn't require vaccinations, so the kid gets free tuition.

that only gets him to 8th grade though, not sure what they are planning to do about high school.

assuming the kid survives their trip to India next year, of course.
 
2013-05-05 02:00:08 PM  

res_nihil: All the homeschooled kids around me were either from hippy families who thought public schools were some type of soul crushing tool of the capitalist system and were into the whol unschooling thing, or other types of people to the left who didn't think the schools were challenging enough. Most of the second type usually went to the Science and Math high school when they got older though.


You lie!  According to Fark, people only homeschool because they're fundies who don't believe in dinosaurs and want to keep their kids away from the filthy gays.
 
2013-05-05 02:02:31 PM  

HairBolus: In families that home-school usually

1) The mother is unemployed and doesn't have anything better to do.
2) The family is cheap and in cases where the local public schools suck don't see why they should send their children to a private school since Mom is just as good as those fancy teachers.

#1 is often caused by "family values" that say a woman's place is in the home.

Cheapness is often self defeating - they won't move to a school district where the public schools don't suck because the taxes are higher, and heaven forbid that Mom get a job so that they can afford those taxes. Meanwhile houses in good districts are better investments than those where schools suck so home schoolers become trapped in declining communities.


Citations for any of the "facts" that you're asserting?
 
2013-05-05 02:02:45 PM  

Mock26: What is sad/scary about home schooling is that (from what I have read) most home school programs that you can use are faith-based.  That is all great and good if you want to teach creationism and all that, but not good if you want to teach real science.


It doesn't matter. Our school teachers are mostly idiots who don't understand real science, so the kids aren't learning it in school either. If you want to learn math or science, you have to go to college.
 
2013-05-05 02:03:15 PM  

JWideman: Regarding the post up-thread...
This is what clever trolling actually looks like.


Trolling? Not my intent. Will it upset people that school's run by the government in the USA do the same sort of things as schools in other countries? Certainly. But people should recognize that.

In "The Impact of Science on Society" Bertrand Russel makes the comment:
For some reason which I have failed to understand, many people like the system when it is Russian but disliked the very same system when it was German. I am compelled to think that this is due to the power of labels; these people like whatever is labeled "Left" without examining whether the label has any justification.

And that is what we have in the USA. We accept a system of schooling for children with the american label when it's origins and modifications were anything but. The american schooling system was dismantled long ago. It is doubtful there is anyone (of typical means) still alive in that was educated in that manner in the USA.  The exception being some very expensive private schools for the children of the wealthy and powerful. Ever see those 'could you pass this 8th grade test from 18XX' things floating around the interwebs? The real ones come from what was the american schooling system. Before the industrialists and politicians got involved.
 
2013-05-05 02:04:15 PM  

ongbok: odinsposse: mrlewish: Wait until homeschooling parents go after public school funds. Already did it with charter schools.

Charter schools are about big businesses wanting to get themselves a cut of public education funding like they did with prison funding. Home schoolers don't have the same kind of clout.

Just wait until some corporation decides to start a subsidiary company that makes and sells homeschooling packages.


Or religious organizations. I wouldn't be surprised at all if groups like Focus on the Family or the other huge fundie groups started getting into the homeschool racket.
 
2013-05-05 02:06:14 PM  
There is an unbelievable range to homeschoolers.  One I met was a black African girl with wealthy parents whose behavior was close to that of sophisticated nobility.  So academically brilliant and cultured that comparatively graduates from Wellesley and Bryn Mawr would be like scullery maids.

Many American kids who are homeschooled have science and technology oriented parents, and are close to genius level themselves.  For many of them, associating with their "peers" is like visiting with a litter of puppies.  Fun for a while, but ultimately boring.  Fortunately for the rest of us, such kids are usually indifferent to politics, philosophy, religion, and don't have control issues.

One of these kids, destined to work in a laboratory, got a US Army scholarship to get his PhD, after his Master's at Georgia Tech, but confessed that his big fantasy was to go to the US Army Ranger School.

Request denied all the way up the chain to a Lieutenant General.  Why?  "Son, for the amount of money you have already cost the Army, we could buy 20 or more Rangers.  Sorry, nothing for you that could get you so much as a blister.  You're too valuable."

Yeah, the upside of homeschooling.
 
2013-05-05 02:06:47 PM  

j0ndas: Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.

By the way, funny fact - that button mentioned in the article "Home's cool... Homeschool!" was probably sold by me personally at one of the conventions we went to back then. I and/or my brother usually manned our booth, and we'd sell about $100 of buttons on the side. Man, the button-making device gave us blisters, though.


I think he meant weird as in socially awkward. Maybe its not the case for you and yours, but it isn't unusual at all. I'm not saying all homeschool students end up social cripples, but of those I've met, is say about seventy percent do.
 
2013-05-05 02:08:04 PM  

PiffMan420: ongbok: odinsposse: mrlewish: Wait until homeschooling parents go after public school funds. Already did it with charter schools.

Charter schools are about big businesses wanting to get themselves a cut of public education funding like they did with prison funding. Home schoolers don't have the same kind of clout.

Just wait until some corporation decides to start a subsidiary company that makes and sells homeschooling packages.

Or religious organizations. I wouldn't be surprised at all if groups like Focus on the Family or the other huge fundie groups started getting into the homeschool racket.


Oh, that's already happening.
 
2013-05-05 02:14:59 PM  

nekom: I've known a few home schooled kids casually, and without exception they are socially inept.  Smart?  Meh.  About as smart as any other kid.  But socially akward.


That may mean that you simply haven't noticed the ept ones
 
2013-05-05 02:15:11 PM  
The professor that chairs the engineering department at my school once told us that home schooled kids almost always wash out before their third semester. They can't handle the work load (which is amazing btw).

/Don't know if this is anectodal or a peer reviewed factoid.
//All 3 of the home schooled kids who enrolled with me in 2011 have already withdrawn...
 
2013-05-05 02:16:46 PM  
Not reading this thread, just wondering if homeschooled has shown up ;)
 
2013-05-05 02:19:45 PM  

Stone Meadow: This is why the US should have a no-homeschooling law like Germany.


Do you think kids do any better at Christian schools like the one which set that "Science" test?
 
2013-05-05 02:20:06 PM  

Too_many_Brians: I was that weird homeschooled kid- Fundie parents, socially isolated in Alaska, socially inept.  My mom pulled my brother out because he had a learning disability and so she yanked me out at the same time. Went for 6th, 7th, and 8th grades- you know those building block years. Sure I learned more, but she didn't teach me and rarely did anything to encourage me. First year out she tried to socialize me but then she got tired of setting those things up and just left me at home for most of the time. Except for church, lots of church.

Took me quite a while to rebuild a foundation for a personality, still not quite right.


I had a similar experience. My parents pulled my brother and I out of public school after I finished the 5th grade. The reasoning was dubious, but my mom had butted heads with the principal several times about sex ed and some other stuff. I was homeschooled for 5 years, starting in the 6th grade -- yes, highly-formative years.

I had friends in elementary school, but a lot of them had moved to avoid the middle school. My mom tried to socialize me. I played soccer in a rec league and was part of a homeschool bowling league that met once a week. There were also some other kids in the neighborhood I would play with, but they were on average several years younger. My point is that I had the capability of making friends if put in the proper environment, but the relative isolation of homeschooling was not that environment.

The level of education was decent, but not spectacular. The history and science textbooks were old (early 60s?), and included gems like "One day man might walk on the moon." The math books were ok, but neither of my parents had taken algebra and if I couldn't grasp a concept from the sentence or two of explanation in the book, I was pretty much screwed until I could figure it out on my own. My mom tried hard to help, but she really couldn't. There were several occasions when she would try to help by giving me sample problems, but would end up frustrating me even more. For example, I would come up with an answer of ".125", but she would tell me I had the wrong answer because the answer book was "1/8". She couldn't explain to me why the answer was wrong (it often wasn't), only that it was wrong. I had never had problems with math before, but I was convinced that I wasn't good at math and extremely frustrated. We ended up deciding that I should take bookkeeping as my math class my last year of homeschooling just to get me through it. It should be noted that this was in the early days of the internet and my parents didn't have it. The internet would have helped a lot.

I convinced my mom that I needed to go to public school for my last couple years of high school in order to prepare me socially for college. I then proceeded to go through a painful few years as I re-acclimated to society. My fashion sense was never great, but I was blind to fashion and stuck out like a sore thumb. I didn't get credit for some of my homeschool classes and I bombed a few placement tests, so I had to resign myself to spending an extra year in high school. I was also filling in the blanks in my high school transcript, so every year I took classes from every grade level (yes, I took a freshman class my senior year). Because of this, I really wasn't with the same group of kids for any significant length of time. I did have friends in high school, but they were mostly older coworkers. To add a twist to the story, I lost my drivers license when I was 18 because of a degenerative eye disease.

By the time I made it to college, I was pretty much up to speed socially. I socialized well and made lots of friends. I joined a fraternity my 3rd year because a lot of my friends were in it.

I now consider myself to be a relatively well-adjusted adult, other than my frequenting Fark.com. I have a beautiful wife, two kids, a nice house, etc, etc. The homeschooling experience wasn't entirely negative. I learned to teach myself, will continue to do so for the rest of my life.

I would never consider homeschooling my kids. Kids need to socialize, and if I feel like they aren't learning enough, I'll teach them when they're at home.
 
2013-05-05 02:21:12 PM  
dumbobruni: cousin & her husband are anti-vax... assuming the kid survives their trip to India next year, of course.

No kidding. Yikes.
 
2013-05-05 02:22:18 PM  
I had a homeschooled friend way back when I was a young'un.  He was tellingly unspecific about why it was that he was homeschooled, but from what he let slip every now and again I figure that it was because he was no longer welcome in the local public school system.  If you knew him and had seen his personality, you understood why.

/we weren't friends for very long
 
2013-05-05 02:24:49 PM  

Qellaqan: Mainly a time thing. It would be great if there was a half time option for school.


It's called flexischooling in the UK. Some state (in US terms, public) schools allow it, but mainly you have to find a friendly private school to go that way.
 
2013-05-05 02:26:22 PM  

Mock26: What is sad/scary about home schooling is that (from what I have read) most home school programs that you can use are faith-based.  That is all great and good if you want to teach creationism and all that, but not good if you want to teach real science.


The problem with homeschooling is that real science and real math and real history and real whatever else is very hard. If you're not constantly teaching and personally relearning these things, you're no better off teaching the subject than the blind is at leading the blind. If you're not a trained scientist, teaching science to your kid is a waste of both your time. The very worse school teacher has far more experience in teaching that subject than the typical homeschool parent/teacher.

If you are a trained scientist, then homeschool teaching that particular branch of science might be a good idea. That's really no different that most parents getting their kid into the same vocation they're in. Like Tom Hanks getting Colin Hanks into film entertainment, or Ron Paul getting Rand Paul into politics (or GHWB get GWB into the same thing, or the Kennedys...). It's similar in science as well. Emil Artin was a famous mathematician. His son, Michael Artin is also a famous mathematician.

But then, you're only good at that one subject. So you're a great mathematician and you homeschool your kids to do algebraic homology or what have you. How good are you in US history? Biology? Music? Fine Arts? Throwing a baseball?

There's a reason to outsource our teaching to people who have specific skills and knowledge to teach those subjects. If there are any questions on public education, it would be the policies at the top-most level on determining what subjects to include and what to exclude, due to limited budgets.
 
2013-05-05 02:26:56 PM  

Ronin_S: So any idea what proportion of homeschoolers are the fundies who don't want their kids being exposed to the filthy science, gays and non-believers and which ones are doctors/researchers/whatever who simply want to provide more advanced material for their kids to tackle?


In the UK I think the loonies are 10 - 20% and the actual educators are the rest.
 
2013-05-05 02:29:23 PM  

orbister: Stone Meadow: This is why the US should have a no-homeschooling law like Germany.

Do you think kids do any better at Christian schools like the one which set that "Science" test?


In their socialization skills? Certainly.
 
2013-05-05 02:29:55 PM  
HairBolus:

#1 is often caused by "family values" that say a woman's place is in the home.


yeah take my job why don't you.  YOUR WHATS WRONG WITH AMERICA
 
2013-05-05 02:33:48 PM  

Blink: Wait ... are you arguing that getting along with age-group peers is an unfavorable condition?


Unless you go to school, "getting along in a group of people whose birthdays are within a year of yours" isn't a particularly useful skill compared to "getting along with people of all ages when you meet them". Do cliques, jocks-vs-geeks, "popular" girls and so on indicate good social skills?

If you homeschool to stop your children meeting anyone outside the family, then yes, you are likely to end up with rather strange results. However, if you homeschool because you want to give your child a good education, you'll also be aware of the need for social skills and you'll encourage their development.
 
2013-05-05 02:34:00 PM  

odinsposse: Qellaqan: It's purely theoretical at this point, but I'm intrigued by the idea of home schooling my kids. All school taught me was how to look busy and make up fun things (an admittedly useful skill), but damn elementary school was light on learning. All I learned socially was how to be so weird that I was no longer appealing to pick on.

There's no reason you can't educate your kids and send them to public school. I was always ahead of my class in elementary school so I often read books my parents gave me during classes. There are plenty of resources out there for parents who want to do things on their own that are both educational and fun for kids.

Now look at me. I'm posting on Fark and doing a pretty good job of getting over my hangover.

/and other stuff
//but nobody believes internet bragging


This! It's exactly what my parents did, and I pushed it at school, too, asking teachers for more and different books, for exampl. I was reading many grade levels above my class all through school (though I needed remedial math), and both my parents and all the teachers I had encouraged me. I was reading Homer in third grade and my dad's college anthropology books in 4th. There wasn't some kind of bright-line cut-off between home and school for me. I was also taken on more "field trips" by my parents on the weekends than I went on in school. Museums, mostly, here and in Europe, though there were a lot of visits to cathedrals in Europe since my mom loved them. With my own kid, we always augmented whatever she was learning in school with talks, books, movies, and museums whenever we could.

You don't *have* to let your kid sit in front of the TV watching cartoons or playing video games just because you can't homeschool because of work and you can't afford private schools.
 
2013-05-05 02:34:23 PM  

mephox: I thought it was a good article. Scary what some of those parents were teaching their kids, but looking forward, it's obvious they won't be able to cope with the real world, even as politicians. And that's sayin' something. That one kid who wanted to beat up other kids and kill stuff in the woods... Future serial killer.


The blog was written about the author's experience in the mid-90s. It could very well be  current serial killernow. I wonder if his parents are still alive or have they been murdered in a grisly way.
 
2013-05-05 02:37:09 PM  

JohnnyFootball: KilaKitu: We've homeschooled our two teens now for around six years for several reasons, none of which are religious.  You likely do have a larger percentage of "interesting" - sometimes odd - kids and families in homeschooling circles because you do have families who think outside the box and don't automatically send their kids to automatron hell...er, school.

We've found homeschooled kids to be surprisingly mature, able to carry on conversations with adults or younger kids, not just their age mates, and I've had some fabulous philosophical discussions with some young teens.  The religious nutjobs get the press because they're weird 'human interest' stories, but be assured, there is a large, and growing, population of homeschoolers who choose this path because we believe it's the best option for our young family members to be productive, creative, happy, and balanced members of our society.

We are thinking of homeschooling our two children. One is starting middle school and the other is finishing elementary. Our oldest had to serve detention for the first time this year, he was reading a book from home in class. He had to serve detention for not following directions (he was told to sit quietly, not read. Our youngest brought home ten worksheets that were completely filled in, he told us they were "shut-up sheets" he worked on when he finished sections of the standardized tests before time expired. They get bored with the pace of learning, it's only a matter of time before the lack of effort school requires transfers to the rest if their lives.


I'm a special ed teaching assistant. I work with special ed kids in the mainstream classroom, so they're given the same assignments as the 'mainstream' kids (though with slightly different expectations and/or extended deadlines). It's appalling the assignments that are given out to high school freshmen at my school. Many of the assignments are shut-up assignments and are things I would expect out of a younger student (Draw a picture representing imperialism vs. write a paragraph analyzing the pros & cons of imperialism). A study conducted recently showed that our high school seniors' lexile scores were far behind what a college freshman's lexile score should be.

I'm currently twelve weeks pregnant and am strongly considering home-schooling my child. My boyfriend and I are both intelligent and both involved with our community. We also live close enough to a large city that we'd be able to take our kid on field trips to assorted art and science museums. We don't feel threatened by viewpoints that differ from our own. What I do feel threatened by is the idea of my kid being utterly bored in school and 'acting out' (much like your kid being disciplined for reading instead of sitting quietly).
 
2013-05-05 02:37:17 PM  

mephox: I thought it was a good article. Scary what some of those parents were teaching their kids, but looking forward, it's obvious they won't be able to cope with the real world, even as politicians. And that's sayin' something. That one kid who wanted to beat up other kids and kill stuff in the woods... Future serial killer.


I don't think you get exactly how horrifying that kid was.

It wasn't so much that he wanted to go into the woods and kill things, or that he wanted to beat kids up.

It was that he had so little idea of social interaction that he based it entirely off of made-for-kids TV, where there is always some dilemma like that. It's like he couldn't realize that in real life people just hang out.

/That's what I got out of that section.
 
2013-05-05 02:37:17 PM  
It's got very little to do with the quality or content of the curriculum that makes homeschooling an issue. As the author says, it's the lack of socialization these kids are getting. They get zero social skills, no exposure to challenging situations...but since they have an acceptable education, they are considered able to go out into society as regular people (as opposed to neglected or abandoned kids).

So when they enter the business world or higher education with no ability to deal with other people as humans, it may not be entitlement or narcissism, they may simply never have met another person before
 
2013-05-05 02:37:34 PM  

orbister: Qellaqan: Mainly a time thing. It would be great if there was a half time option for school.

It's called flexischooling in the UK. Some state (in US terms, public) schools allow it, but mainly you have to find a friendly private school to go that way.


Cool, I'd never heard of it before in the US besides half-day kindergarten. I wish it would be more prevalent but with so many more dual income houses it seems like it will become less common.
 
2013-05-05 02:38:11 PM  

nekom: I've known a few home schooled kids casually, and without exception they are socially inept.  Smart?  Meh.  About as smart as any other kid.  But socially akward.

I teach my daughter all that she needs to know, she's in Kindergarten but reading at least at a 3rd grade level.  She doesn't go to school to learn, she goes to school to make friends, and learn that while in this household she is the princess, in the rest of the world she's just another kid.  It's important to learn those lessons, and make those friends.


This. My kids are both working above grade level because of the things we do at home, but school is important to learn how to get along with others.

Great site for kids to work on math:

www.aleks.com
 
2013-05-05 02:38:25 PM  

FunkOut: This just in : some homeschooled kids are clever children with clever parents teachers teaching them better than in the public system, many others are poorly socialised and receive a warped limited education that has little connection to reality.

 
2013-05-05 02:40:54 PM  
check out their parents. my bible freak family cheapskate Nephew married a home schooled girl. i have nothing but pity for her. her Dad is a fundie, owns a Chik-Fil-A and treats his children like mindless slave bees. i fear Daughter appealed to nephew because Dad put money in the deal. Daughter who was not allowed to attend college by Dad wound up married at 19. Nephew act like a human, let her do the college thing? Hells no, his Mom & Dad & Granpa paid his way through. She's pregnant with their second child. Her parents are at their house all the farking time. What a slice of hell.
 
2013-05-05 02:42:11 PM  

jso2897: Stone Meadow: This is why the US should have a no-homeschooling law like Germany.

I would not choose homeschooling for my own children, but neither would I choose Germany as my model for civil liberty.


Contemporary Germany is nothing like Germany in the late 1930s to mid 1940s. Get over it. Germany is now far more liberal on civil positions than the most liberal of all liberal states in the US. For example, they teach sex education to 8 - 10 year olds with giant models of vulvae and penises, showing how the penis is inserted and all. They have no speed limits on the autobahn (but, obtaining a driver's license is not a brief trip to the DMV for a written test; it really requires a lot of driver's training with real practicing of situational driving conditions). They have decriminalized -- and now, maybe have legalized -- prostitution.
 
2013-05-05 02:43:46 PM  

Mad Scientist: Popcorn Johnny: Buy they have great teeth.

Beat me to it.

[i169.photobucket.com image 422x532]


Came for this.  Leaving satisfied.
 
2013-05-05 02:45:43 PM  

silvervial: odinsposse: Qellaqan: It's purely theoretical at this point, but I'm intrigued by the idea of home schooling my kids. All school taught me was how to look busy and make up fun things (an admittedly useful skill), but damn elementary school was light on learning. All I learned socially was how to be so weird that I was no longer appealing to pick on.

There's no reason you can't educate your kids and send them to public school. I was always ahead of my class in elementary school so I often read books my parents gave me during classes. There are plenty of resources out there for parents who want to do things on their own that are both educational and fun for kids.

Now look at me. I'm posting on Fark and doing a pretty good job of getting over my hangover.

/and other stuff
//but nobody believes internet bragging

This! It's exactly what my parents did, and I pushed it at school, too, asking teachers for more and different books, for exampl. I was reading many grade levels above my class all through school (though I needed remedial math), and both my parents and all the teachers I had encouraged me. I was reading Homer in third grade and my dad's college anthropology books in 4th. There wasn't some kind of bright-line cut-off between home and school for me. I was also taken on more "field trips" by my parents on the weekends than I went on in school. Museums, mostly, here and in Europe, though there were a lot of visits to cathedrals in Europe since my mom loved them. With my own kid, we always augmented whatever she was learning in school with talks, books, movies, and museums whenever we could.

You don't *have* to let your kid sit in front of the TV watching cartoons or playing video games just because you can't homeschool because of work and you can't afford private schools.


I was something like this, too, so I'm not attacking it, but school takes up a lot of time in a kid's life. Especially in k-6, you learn pretty damn little. I paid attention a little to learn the material, but then I did my own thing and made it look like work. I wonder how much more I could have learned in that period if I wasn't stuck at other's paces.

I went through a phase in middle school where I did zero homework, because i understood the material fine already. Straight D's, and my parents took away TV, radio, internet, you name it. Boy was that a stimulus for the imagination (I told kids a lot of creative stories about being an alien), but what could I have done with even more time? Is that so terrible? Maybe you would have done more too, it doesn't mean you haven't done well to wonder.

\Read "Born Free" in 3rd grade.
\\Didn't entirely get it, but read it because kitties!
 
2013-05-05 02:45:56 PM  

Mellotiger: Indeed, that is why I felt compelled to learn the actual history as pertains to my area instead of just going with my sixth grade history course. I'm not saying the confederacy was a good thing, I do not support slavery, but I also do not support flawed history. If the civil war was solely about ending slavery, the emancipation proclamation would have happened BEFORE the war, because you don't go to war with your own nation for not complying with something that hasn't happened yet. Simple, really.


I don't know what they teach in Mississippi but in Alabama they taught 'States Rights' during elementary school but by jr. high, the lessons changed over to slavery being the cause. As for why the South left before the emancipation proclamation, simple really: 1) they could see the writing on the wall as Lincoln was known to be hostile to the idea of slavery even if he hadn't said he was going to end it and 2) since there weren't going to be any more slave states allowed to join the Union, the South was going to lose it's ability to keep slavery legal. They could see it would be just a matter of time before the rest of the country outlawed the basis of the southern economy. They weren't going to wait for that to happen first.

/Do you also around your friends call it the War of Northern Aggression?
 
2013-05-05 02:46:03 PM  

Qellaqan: But seriously, people who say they get along with adults better than peers *aren't* more socially adjusted. They're less socially adjusted. Maligning your peers doesn't diminish the fact that even if they're so simple, you still can't get along with them.


Have you ever seen parents of toddlers trying to get them to play with each other? It rarely works, and that's because to a toddler, other toddlers aren't nearly as interesting as older people. Similarly, while its useful for a 14 year old to be able to get on with other 14 year olds, it's not nearly as useful as being able to get on with adults, because you spend one year of your life at school with a need to get on with 14 year olds and sixty years of your life needing to get on with adults.

Socialization is really about getting along with everyone, or at least faking it.

I agree completely.
 
2013-05-05 02:48:30 PM  

KrispyKritter: check out their parents. my bible freak family cheapskate Nephew married a home schooled girl. i have nothing but pity for her. her Dad is a fundie, owns a Chik-Fil-A and treats his children like mindless slave bees. i fear Daughter appealed to nephew because Dad put money in the deal. Daughter who was not allowed to attend college by Dad wound up married at 19. Nephew act like a human, let her do the college thing? Hells no, his Mom & Dad & Granpa paid his way through. She's pregnant with their second child. Her parents are at their house all the farking time. What a slice of hell.


With writing skills like those, I don't think I would be talking shiat about home-schoolers if I were you. Jesus Christ, that broke my brain.
 
2013-05-05 02:49:17 PM  

nekom: I teach my daughter all that she needs to know, she's in Kindergarten but reading at least at a 3rd grade level.  She doesn't go to school to learn, she goes to school to make friends, and learn that while in this household she is the princess, in the rest of the world she's just another kid.  It's important to learn those lessons, and make those friends.


Did she have no friends before she went to school? Did she take no part in group activities outside her immediate family before she went to school?
 
2013-05-05 02:49:56 PM  

odinsposse: The Civil War was about preserving the Union. However the South undeniably left because they felt their right to own slaves was in danger.


If it was about preserving the Union, the North could have capitulated to the South on the issue of slavery and avoided the war altogether.  They didn't.
 
2013-05-05 02:50:06 PM  

umad: KrispyKritter: check out their parents. my bible freak family cheapskate Nephew married a home schooled girl. i have nothing but pity for her. her Dad is a fundie, owns a Chik-Fil-A and treats his children like mindless slave bees. i fear Daughter appealed to nephew because Dad put money in the deal. Daughter who was not allowed to attend college by Dad wound up married at 19. Nephew act like a human, let her do the college thing? Hells no, his Mom & Dad & Granpa paid his way through. She's pregnant with their second child. Her parents are at their house all the farking time. What a slice of hell.

With writing skills like those, I don't think I would be talking shiat about home-schoolers if I were you. Jesus Christ, that broke my brain.


Thank God. I though it was just me having a stroke.
 
2013-05-05 02:50:44 PM  

orbister: nekom: I teach my daughter all that she needs to know, she's in Kindergarten but reading at least at a 3rd grade level.  She doesn't go to school to learn, she goes to school to make friends, and learn that while in this household she is the princess, in the rest of the world she's just another kid.  It's important to learn those lessons, and make those friends.

Did she have no friends before she went to school? Did she take no part in group activities outside her immediate family before she went to school?


My property taxes pay for the child care institution, I might as well utilize it.
 
2013-05-05 02:50:50 PM  
Many people are bringing up the social downsides of homeschooling but not bringing up the social downsides of government schooling. The social pressures of conforming and the damage done to those who refuse or cannot to conform are just as if not more damaging.  It's not like the children in schools are what one would call judgment free and accommodating of people who are different. Those of us who experienced them first hand know this although those who thrived in such an environment I don't expect to even recognize that it happens. 

Furthermore, the institution itself being about creating a more or less uniform product doesn't help matters any. This goes back the industrial mindset of the late 19th and early 20th century. It was a large part of the school system that it spawned. Uniform product, in this case workers, people, was considered beneficial and was something the traditional american schools did not produce. Traditional american schools were more like the happy homeschooling the author of TFA put forth as his own experience. One of independence, being treated as an adult, and resentment of being filed, indexed, numbered, etc...
 
2013-05-05 02:51:44 PM  

Xythero: odinsposse: The Civil War was about preserving the Union. However the South undeniably left because they felt their right to own slaves was in danger.

If it was about preserving the Union, the North could have capitulated to the South on the issue of slavery and avoided the war altogether.  They didn't.


Yet somehow the Union was preserved. I don't think you thought your point out very well.
 
2013-05-05 02:52:14 PM  

orbister: Qellaqan: But seriously, people who say they get along with adults better than peers *aren't* more socially adjusted. They're less socially adjusted. Maligning your peers doesn't diminish the fact that even if they're so simple, you still can't get along with them.

Have you ever seen parents of toddlers trying to get them to play with each other? It rarely works, and that's because to a toddler, other toddlers aren't nearly as interesting as older people. Similarly, while its useful for a 14 year old to be able to get on with other 14 year olds, it's not nearly as useful as being able to get on with adults, because you spend one year of your life at school with a need to get on with 14 year olds and sixty years of your life needing to get on with adults.


I would say as a child I got along better with adults, since my only sibling was 4.5 years older and very bright. However it's one of those "badge of honor" statements that seem to flag people for bad thinking because they turn their diminished ability to get along with a certain group into a point of pride. They're mature!

It's like those girls who say, "I just don't get along with other girls, guys are so much more chill." Speaking as someone who grew up around more men than women I often socialize better with men too. But god if most of the people who say it aren't maladjusted, or even a bit hostile to the group that "doesn't get them".

\I'm equal opportunity antisocial!
 
2013-05-05 02:52:43 PM  

RickN99: HairBolus: In families that home-school usually

1) The mother is unemployed and doesn't have anything better to do.
2) The family is cheap and in cases where the local public schools suck don't see why they should send their children to a private school since Mom is just as good as those fancy teachers.

#1 is often caused by "family values" that say a woman's place is in the home.

Cheapness is often self defeating - they won't move to a school district where the public schools don't suck because the taxes are higher, and heaven forbid that Mom get a job so that they can afford those taxes. Meanwhile houses in good districts are better investments than those where schools suck so home schoolers become trapped in declining communities.

Citations for any of the "facts" that you're asserting?


Here are some government figures on home schooling


Highest education level of parents

High school diploma or less             18,334

Vocational/technical or some college    15,177

Bachelor's degree/some graduate school   9,412

Graduate/professional degree             7,264


Household income

$25,000 or less     16,776

$25,001 to $50,000  15,220

$50,001 to $75,000   8,576

Over $75,000         9,615


Homeschooling is weighted towards the poorer (and cheaper) and less educated.

 
2013-05-05 02:53:41 PM  

jst3p: My property taxes pay for the child care institution, I might as well utilize it.


That's a perfectly reasonable point of view. Although I am very keen in home schooling, I recognise that it doesn't suit every child, or every family, and that schools do good stuff too.
 
2013-05-05 02:54:00 PM  

leadmetal: Many people are bringing up the social downsides of homeschooling but not bringing up the social downsides of government schooling. The social pressures of conforming and the damage done to those who refuse or cannot to conform are just as if not more damaging.  It's not like the children in schools are what one would call judgment free and accommodating of people who are different. Those of us who experienced them first hand know this although those who thrived in such an environment I don't expect to even recognize that it happens. 

Furthermore, the institution itself being about creating a more or less uniform product doesn't help matters any. This goes back the industrial mindset of the late 19th and early 20th century. It was a large part of the school system that it spawned. Uniform product, in this case workers, people, was considered beneficial and was something the traditional american schools did not produce. Traditional american schools were more like the happy homeschooling the author of TFA put forth as his own experience. One of independence, being treated as an adult, and resentment of being filed, indexed, numbered, etc...


Not enough bites, eh?

\duh, almost every aspect about a lot of socialization is conformation. Is this news?
 
2013-05-05 02:54:27 PM  

orclover: This IS a bookmark first of all.  My wife, myself and my mother all homeschool my youngest son (9) and have done so for almost a year now.  The reasons we do so and what led us to such a hard decision would take a 20 page article to explain.  To sum up, fark public school system and the power abusing farks they harbor. Not to mention the psychotic little shiats who run rampant through the halls physically abusing anybody they wish.   Getting him out of that meat grinder probably saved his life or at least his future sanity.

Too farking much to say on the subject.  Would need hours and a few dozen drinks to get it all out.  Just.  fark that god damn public school system and those farking teachers and that god damn principal and those psychotic farking kids.

/fark AISD


Wow. I think the public school system won in this little battle.
 
2013-05-05 02:55:31 PM  
I grew up near a family that home-schooled their 3 kids (the eldest a girl and two boys) up through 8th grade, but all three of their children were  really good athletes. One of their sons was my age and played on all of my Little League and other youth league teams. They were very religious too, so there was a bit of a Tebow-lite thing going on with their two boys (good looking, charismatic athletic types who openly loved their Jesus). But, they turned all three of their kids lose into the public school gauntlet for high school and by and large ended up being pretty normal kids. Just a handful of years playing sports with "other" kids leading up to 9th grade provided enough of a framework in learning how to conduct themselves outside of their element (i.e, some basic understanding of pop culture, knowing not  to bring up your religion to other teenagers who aren't interested in hearing about it, etc)

So, even with a very religious household, it certainly is possible to raise and home-school kids in a way that doesn't totally clash with the outside world that at some point, your kids will have to face and assimilate into.
 
2013-05-05 02:56:33 PM  

orbister: jst3p: My property taxes pay for the child care institution, I might as well utilize it.

That's a perfectly reasonable point of view. Although I am very keen in home schooling, I recognise that it doesn't suit every child, or every family, and that schools do good stuff too.


Yeah, actually our school is pretty good. My anecdotal experience with home school is generally in line with the stereotypes but I know exceptions exist and I am sure it is the best option for some circumstances.
 
2013-05-05 02:58:46 PM  

cardex: In 5th grade a friend of mines parents converted to mormams pulled him and his little sister out of school and cut contact with everyone both of the kids committed susicide before they were 18. Why is it that the people least qualified to teach anything are the ones that think they can teach everything


That's exactly why school boards suck.
 
2013-05-05 02:59:06 PM  

Qellaqan: \\MO had slaves the longest, with MD I think, because the Emancipation Proclamation freed only slaves in the Confederacy, so yes I'm aware of its effects.


Actually, Missouri was the second of the border states to abolish slavery, just after Maryland and just before West Virginia.

This was before Juneteenth, and before most southern blacks knew anything about emancipation.

The last legal slavery was in Kentucky and Delaware, where it ended when the thirteenth amendment was enacted at the end of the year.
 
2013-05-05 02:59:12 PM  

Qellaqan: I would say as a child I got along better with adults, since my only sibling was 4.5 years older and very bright. However it's one of those "badge of honor" statements that seem to flag people for bad thinking because they turn their diminished ability to get along with a certain group into a point of pride. They're mature!


OK, I see what you mean. With perhaps the proviso that if you are not in a group as intense and inward looking as school peer groups tend to be, it can be hard to get on with them not because of who you are but because of what the group is like. A homeschooled child might indeed find it a little hard to get on with a group who go to school together ... but so would a child from another school, or a child from another year group within the whole school. Adults tend to be much less prescriptive about the groups they deign to interact with.

There's not much can be done about that; I wouldn't see it as a particular problem, but I wouldn't adduce it as evidence of maturity either.
 
2013-05-05 03:00:23 PM  
For one reason or another, this thread seems in particular need of this image:

www.yalerecord.com
 
2013-05-05 03:02:59 PM  

mccallcl: Qellaqan: j0ndas: Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.

By the way, funny fact - that button mentioned in the article "Home's cool... Homeschool!" was probably sold by me personally at one of the conventions we went to back then. I and/or my brother usually manned our booth, and we'd sell about $100 of buttons on the side. Man, the button-making device gave us blisters, though.

I hope this is a clever troll because you come off as rather unpleasant.

Not really, no. What he's saying makes sense: home schooled kids spend more time with adults, so they act like adults. I don't have any opinion either way, except that you're probably just being sensitive. Lighten up.


See, that's the problem. They don't act like adults. They act like the veneer that the adults show. As we grow up, we build up layers upon layers of social masking. We learn to hide or project feelings and non-verbal cues over time by doing it and seeing how it works with others. So when a child hangs out only with adults, especially adults who have built up a thick layer of, how should I say it... bullshiat, then the child doesn't learn how to see through the bullshiat and thinks that how people act. Either the child becomes a bullshiatter or is susceptible to being bullshiatted.

Kids need to develop that social being by practicing with each other over the course of time as kids. Kids at first are terrible at bullshiatting and we learn how to be better at doing it and recognizing it over time. If you skip that part and just go to the "adults in the room" part, you will have adults who grow up to be socially inept.
 
2013-05-05 03:06:24 PM  

ongbok: FlashHarry: [i39.tinypic.com image 550x400]

Come on, that has to be a photoshop. Please let it be one.


i believe it's real.
 
2013-05-05 03:07:21 PM  
How to educate one's kids is a matter of personal choice, and people make different choices in that regard for different reasons. it would be nice if people could respect one another's decisions on the matter, but to read this thread, that's a skill neither public  nor private nor homeschooling teaches.
 
2013-05-05 03:10:10 PM  

MustTryHarder: Shadowtag: Due to social issues, I was homeschooled... I think I conquered geometry in a couple of days.

Uh huh


Yup. He conquered a couple day's worth of geometry in a couple of days.
 
2013-05-05 03:15:33 PM  

Xythero: odinsposse: The Civil War was about preserving the Union. However the South undeniably left because they felt their right to own slaves was in danger.

If it was about preserving the Union, the North could have capitulated to the South on the issue of slavery and avoided the war altogether.  They didn't.


Capitulate how? The states that seceded weren't being forced to give up slavery (at the time). Most abolitionists thought that slavery was an inferior economic model and would die off on its own so they didn't have to do anything. The federal government was really only saying that slavery should stay in the south until it died its natural death. The Confederates took the mere idea that they would be a minority power as an attack on the institution of slavery and bolted before any move towards federal action on slavery could even be brought up.
 
2013-05-05 03:16:36 PM  

EngineerAU: Mellotiger: Indeed, that is why I felt compelled to learn the actual history as pertains to my area instead of just going with my sixth grade history course. I'm not saying the confederacy was a good thing, I do not support slavery, but I also do not support flawed history. If the civil war was solely about ending slavery, the emancipation proclamation would have happened BEFORE the war, because you don't go to war with your own nation for not complying with something that hasn't happened yet. Simple, really.

I don't know what they teach in Mississippi but in Alabama they taught 'States Rights' during elementary school but by jr. high, the lessons changed over to slavery being the cause. As for why the South left before the emancipation proclamation, simple really: 1) they could see the writing on the wall as Lincoln was known to be hostile to the idea of slavery even if he hadn't said he was going to end it and 2) since there weren't going to be any more slave states allowed to join the Union, the South was going to lose it's ability to keep slavery legal. They could see it would be just a matter of time before the rest of the country outlawed the basis of the southern economy. They weren't going to wait for that to happen first.

/Do you also around your friends call it the War of Northern Aggression?


You just had to get in that cheap shot at the end, huh? Classy. My point is, and has always been, that the war was not about slavery. The union did not engage the jerks from down here in order to stop slavery. The war was to preserve the union, pure and simple. The confederate states seceded because, like you said, the writing was on the wall and times were changing. I am not denying that. But the war wasn't to end slavery, slavery wa just the catalyst that caused it.
 
2013-05-05 03:16:59 PM  

aevorea: I'm a special ed teaching assistant. I work with special ed kids in the mainstream classroom



Our oldest son has been in "special ed" since grade 3, he's 15 now.  The majority of what I have seen of the Special Education system has been one horrifying nightmare after another punctuated by seasonal meetings that last up to 3 hours with groups of 5 to 15 people (including superintendents, teachers, faculty of all sorts and visiting "specialist" of every sort).  The meetings mostly seem to serve the purpose of having all the senior members pat each other on the back and our sons name occasionally thrown into the conversation, usually by me or his mother.  His classroom in Jr. High was an abomination.  A storage room for teenagers in the furthest portable building on the campus.  It smelled of freshly cleaned urine and feces on every visit, there was visible damage on virtually everything.  The "students" spent their time playing on game systems they brought or watching cartoons on tv, there wasn't even a shadow of an attempt to educate them.  We would receive the usual report cards from the school:  Aced english, math, history, farking everything A to A+, they all did.  He never took a test. He could barely read or write, knew nothing of history but what we had taught him.  At one of the larger meetings I finally lost my shiat and raised hell about it.  They apologized and said they would look into it.  His next grades were all solidly 70 across the board on the next report card, and he still had not taken a single test.

Lady, if given the ability I would burn the whole damn education system to the farking ground.  No offense to you.  But what we have here is an atrocity, If I believed in hell I would hope they all burn.  But there is no hope, no change, no stopping it and our children serve no purpose other than to be chewed up by the machine and then shiat out into society.  I wish there was an affordable alternative to this other than refusing to play.
 
2013-05-05 03:19:41 PM  

Xythero: odinsposse: The Civil War was about preserving the Union. However the South undeniably left because they felt their right to own slaves was in danger.

If it was about preserving the Union, the North could have capitulated to the South on the issue of slavery and avoided the war altogether.  They didn't.


Just because they could have doesn't mean they would have. They wanted to preserve the union and keep their power, not kowtow to a bunch of slave holding rebels.
 
2013-05-05 03:26:25 PM  

simplicimus: G&T


Your daughter is a gin & tonic?
You must be proud.
 
2013-05-05 03:27:04 PM  

John Dewey: What's with all the homeschooler and homeschooling parents on here?  Isn't it Sunday?  Shouldn't they all be in church or taking the sabbath or something?


they took the Sabbath out for doughnuts but he started throwing a temper tantrum so they had to go home without buying any. =/
 
2013-05-05 03:29:06 PM  
Homeschool kids being 2-3 grades ahead on reading writing and 'rithmatic isn't at all surprising. It's a statement of priorities.

Imagine that you and your spouse go to work every day.

Now imagine that you only get 1/2 the money - that a whole salary goes to 'public schooling' - and that the pupil:teacher ratio is about 3:1 or 4:1, with unlimited personalization and unlimited hours.

Let's assume that each breadwinner is making 2/3 the mean income in your hometown. At a 3:1 student teacher ratio, that would mean that the teacher would make double the mean income of the population to physically be there for the same amount of time, and only have 24 assignments (3 students, 8 subjects) per day to review and on which to provide feedback, instead of 240 assignments (30 students, 8 periods) to review.

So, to recap - Much less work, much more money (2-3 times more), much more investment on individuals. Almost no standardization pressure, and an ability to tightly integrate moral and spiritual philosophy into class discussions.

Yes, Homes school, the way the author describes it, is the product of us wanting to cheap out on public education. The answer : More Money - a lot more.

So in Chicago ( median household income $47,000) our formula would make the salary $94,000
for about 134,000 positions, or an outlay of over six billion ($6,298,000,000) dollars a year - not including pensions, buildings, janitors, administrators, substitutes, gym teachers, groundskeepers, board of education secretaries, or property taxes. This is just teaching salaries.

The final 2012 CPS budget only allocates $2,082,000,000 for salaries alone.

So that's the difference. You're paying three times as much for a teacher you spend years interviewing, who has no pension or health care, and a very very small class size.
 
2013-05-05 03:30:48 PM  

JohnnyFootball: We are thinking of homeschooling our two children. One is starting middle school and the other is finishing elementary. Our oldest had to serve detention for the first time this year, he was reading a book from home in class. He had to serve detention for not following directions (he was told to sit quietly, not read. Our youngest brought home ten worksheets that were completely filled in, he told us they were "shut-up sheets" he worked on when he finished sections of the standardized tests before time expired. They get bored with the pace of learning, it's only a matter of time before the lack of effort school requires transfers to the rest if their lives.


This paragraph sounds familiar. It wasn't that bad in my grade school days, but bad enough. Never a detention or anything like that as I ended up developing a fear of authority at a young age. Not respect. Fear. My 'book from home' could have as easily been an adult text on some academic subject as an age appropriate one. Also ones beyond what any teacher could comprehend such as 'player missile graphics for the atari 8 bit computes'.  Yeah I had this thing about making my own video games that never quite worked out. If I knew what I knew now I would have kept those books at home.

Corporate work isn't much different from school. It requires little effort but going above and beyond, thinking out of the box, and so forth are usually punished unless one has political protection. Pretty much like the school experience.
 
2013-05-05 03:31:35 PM  
I don't think those kids were just being homeschooled, I think they were in a cult...
 
2013-05-05 03:32:01 PM  

Badgers: Must be a xenu thing


Scientology do not believe in school since children are merely adult spirits inhabiting small bodies.
 
2013-05-05 03:33:09 PM  

Qellaqan: Not enough bites, eh?
\duh, almost every aspect about a lot of socialization is conformation. Is this news?


Disagreement with the commonly accepted trauma based method of conditioning people and making them conform does make it trolling. You can ignore the fact that it damages many children all you wish but it doesn't change that it does.
 
2013-05-05 03:35:02 PM  
Trying to RTFA, but it keeps refreshing me to the top of the page.  Anyone else having this issue?
 
2013-05-05 03:38:59 PM  
I think the author of the article is just an arrogant prick. Cherokee County is a metro Atlanta suburb and has a lot of big fancy homes just like you rich Yankees have up north. This was nothing more than the author arrogantly telling us that he was not only better than the public school kids he went to school with, but he was also better than those weirdo home school kids he knew. Prick.
 
2013-05-05 03:40:09 PM  

leadmetal: Qellaqan: Not enough bites, eh?
\duh, almost every aspect about a lot of socialization is conformation. Is this news?

Disagreement with the commonly accepted trauma based method of conditioning people and making them conform does make it trolling. You can ignore the fact that it damages many children all you wish but it doesn't change that it does.


You come off as paranoid and tin foil hattish. Use statistics ( or even just personal stories) rather than your anger and fear and you will engender richer responses. Otherwise, what should people respond to?
 
2013-05-05 03:41:41 PM  

JK8Fan: I think the author of the article is just an arrogant prick. Cherokee County is a metro Atlanta suburb and has a lot of big fancy homes just like you rich Yankees have up north. This was nothing more than the author arrogantly telling us that he was not only better than the public school kids he went to school with, but he was also better than those weirdo home school kids he knew. Prick.


To play devil's advocate, some of us are.
 
2013-05-05 03:43:34 PM  

fnordfocus: Qellaqan: \\MO had slaves the longest, with MD I think, because the Emancipation Proclamation freed only slaves in the Confederacy, so yes I'm aware of its effects.

Actually, Missouri was the second of the border states to abolish slavery, just after Maryland and just before West Virginia.

This was before Juneteenth, and before most southern blacks knew anything about emancipation.

The last legal slavery was in Kentucky and Delaware, where it ended when the thirteenth amendment was enacted at the end of the year.


I think Missouri's history is more complex. There was a northern sympathizing gov, but I believe he was replaced at some point. Many hangovers of the war exist still in mo which I think is odd for such a western state.

/the stl chief of police was appointed by the gov til 2010ish due to the civil war.
 
2013-05-05 03:43:36 PM  

Ennuipoet: The scariest thing I can think of is this guy is probably not exaggerating about the kids he met.


Given my experiences with them both from undergrad and as an educator... he's toning it down significantly.

Basically, it's a damned good thing that humans are still capable of un-learning things and retraining themselves as adults, or every home-schooled kid in existence would have grown up to be a serial killer.  The ones that grow up to be normal are very clearly doing it in spite of their early education.

//I would ask the purpose of TFA though.  Pretty much everyone who's looked into it should know that the quality of education and the socialization of the victims are both inferior to even public schooling, I don't think one random guy being kind of a prick about it in a magazine article is going to convince them if they already don't care about that.
 
2013-05-05 03:43:45 PM  

Mellotiger: Xythero: odinsposse: The Civil War was about preserving the Union. However the South undeniably left because they felt their right to own slaves was in danger.

If it was about preserving the Union, the North could have capitulated to the South on the issue of slavery and avoided the war altogether.  They didn't.

Just because they could have doesn't mean they would have. They wanted to preserve the union and keep their power, not kowtow to a bunch of slave holding rebels.


Lincoln made it clear that if preserving slavery kept the union together that was fine by him. However other issues leading to separation were not as negotiable. Including that of federal power. Where the federal government was not created by the states for the benefit of the states but a power over the states.

Slavery in the form practiced in the southern states at the time was becoming economically non-viable, increasingly socially non-viable, and probably would not have lasted much past 1865 anyway. It didn't in the rest of world. The modern form of slavery through political and corporate structures where people think they are free (still in practice today) was simply much more profitable and efficient than the antiquated system practiced in the southern states in 1860.
 
2013-05-05 03:51:01 PM  

Qellaqan: j0ndas: Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.

By the way, funny fact - that button mentioned in the article "Home's cool... Homeschool!" was probably sold by me personally at one of the conventions we went to back then. I and/or my brother usually manned our booth, and we'd sell about $100 of buttons on the side. Man, the button-making device gave us blisters, though.

I hope this is a clever troll because you come off as rather unpleasant.


It's a common defense when people start making judgements about you without actually knowing you. The whole "You're home schooled, you must be socially awkward and a religious nut job. You have my pity for being raised in such a shiatty situation, hopefully you will adjust to real life soon."

 Seriously, how many people are going to react positively to *that* assertion?

 Protip: If you want to interact with people in a positive manner, don't insult them when you first start speaking to them.

/public schooled.
 
2013-05-05 03:51:54 PM  

loki see loki do: simplicimus: G&T

Your daughter is a gin & tonic?
You must be proud.


Gifted and Talented and Lazy. Oddly, she's the only non-drinker in 4 generations.
 
2013-05-05 03:55:35 PM  

Qellaqan: leadmetal: Qellaqan: Not enough bites, eh?
\duh, almost every aspect about a lot of socialization is conformation. Is this news?

Disagreement with the commonly accepted trauma based method of conditioning people and making them conform does make it trolling. You can ignore the fact that it damages many children all you wish but it doesn't change that it does.

You come off as paranoid and tin foil hattish. Use statistics ( or even just personal stories) rather than your anger and fear and you will engender richer responses. Otherwise, what should people respond to?


Trolling plus a lesson in trolling? You're going to have to come up with something more creative than 'tin foil hat and paranoid' if you want to get me on the hook. Also, Who says I want replies? I don't care if anyone replies. Anyway, I've used both statistics and personal experiences before in threads like this. If I really wanted to piss people off and get them to write flaming replies, I learned the hard way that's the way to do it. I'm not in the mood for that today, thus I've largely avoided both intentionally.

However, if you want to read how the modern form of schooling in the USA damages children, I recommend reading what John Taylor Gatto has written on the subject. You'll find all the supporting cites you should ever want there. If that's not enough there are other authors who have addressed where modern government schooling comes from and what it is designed to do that you could read for yet more.
 
2013-05-05 03:56:36 PM  
In related news, pit bulls aren't bad dogs, they just have bad owners.
 
2013-05-05 03:59:19 PM  
A friend worked in admissions at a fairly well respected university, and she said a surprising number of the homeschooled have something like a nervous breakdown or total academic implosion after the first or second semesters. Some students do- that's just the way of the world... some people have trouble adjusting. However, an inordinate number of the homeschooled seem to end up that way, to the point where it's almost stereotypical.

She since moved on to the fundraising department but before she left there were discussions as to whether or not they should be admitted in the first place given a large percentage of them flame out or just can't cope psychologically.
 
2013-05-05 04:00:08 PM  

LesserEvil: Mad Scientist: Popcorn Johnny: Buy they have great teeth.

Beat me to it.

[i169.photobucket.com image 422x532]

Has anybody got a link to the original story behind this meme? It's been driving me nuts for years. The earliest reference I can find on Fark is December 2007.


There was a farker who was homeschooled and to prove how normal and well-adjusted he turned out in an in-thread flamewar, he posted a picture of his wife.  That is the picture he posted.

That turned out to be a huge mistake for him.  From what i remember, the word 'Oats' was used frequently in that thread after the wife pic was posted.
 
2013-05-05 04:04:55 PM  

Banned on the Run: In related news, pit bulls aren't bad dogs, they just have bad owners.


If you dont circumcise your pit bull then you have failed as an owner and he will never be accepted by his fellow dogs at training school
 
2013-05-05 04:05:07 PM  
 
2013-05-05 04:06:40 PM  

cardex: In 5th grade a friend of mines parents converted to mormams pulled him and his little sister out of school and cut contact with everyone both of the kids committed susicide before they were 18. Why is it that the people least qualified to teach anything are the ones that think they can teach everything


Why is that people who never learned, or choose not to use, some semblance of proper grammar post questions about the teaching abilities of others?  Seriously, parsing your post took more effort than I really wanted to exert.
 
2013-05-05 04:06:58 PM  

Banned on the Run: In related news, pit bulls aren't bad dogs, they just have bad owners.


Dog Breeds generally follow the behavior they were bred for. Shepherds tend to group animals together. My Spaniels tend to alert me to the location of birds. Rat dogs tend to dig holes looking for rodents. Greyhounds chase things,etc.
What were Pit Bulls bred to do?
/Honest question.
 
2013-05-05 04:07:30 PM  

dugitman: dumbobruni: cousin & her husband are anti-vax... assuming the kid survives their trip to India next year, of course.

No kidding. Yikes.


it really is quite something to behold. we can't dare question them, but the husband is very vocal in his criticism of others.

ugh, all around.

/he's a "hardcore libertarian"
//you don't say!
 
2013-05-05 04:07:57 PM  

cardex: In 5th grade a friend of mines parents converted to mormams pulled him and his little sister out of school and cut contact with everyone both of the kids committed susicide before they were 18. Why is it that the people least qualified to teach anything are the ones that think they can teach everything


What the hell did I just try to read?
 
2013-05-05 04:09:56 PM  

orbister: FunkOut: This just in : some homeschooled kids are clever children with clever parents teachers teaching them better than in the public system, many others are poorly socialised and receive a warped limited education that has little connection to reality.


I guess what you just correct totally disproved what I said...wait, no it didn't.

I've known homeschooled kids. Their behaviour was like that of a foreign culture or alien planet, entirely dictated by the peculiarities of their own family. The ones I knew had no sense of personal space or boundaries.
 
2013-05-05 04:11:38 PM  

j0ndas: Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.

By the way, funny fact - that button mentioned in the article "Home's cool... Homeschool!" was probably sold by me personally at one of the conventions we went to back then. I and/or my brother usually manned our booth, and we'd sell about $100 of buttons on the side. Man, the button-making device gave us blisters, though.


I hope you've been enjoying the snarky responses you inspired. I certainly am!

My favorites are the ones who mock you for simply claiming to be educated...and expressing their thoughts via middle-school sentence structure and grammar errors. :)
 
2013-05-05 04:12:16 PM  

simplicimus: Banned on the Run: In related news, pit bulls aren't bad dogs, they just have bad owners.

Dog Breeds generally follow the behavior they were bred for. Shepherds tend to group animals together. My Spaniels tend to alert me to the location of birds. Rat dogs tend to dig holes looking for rodents. Greyhounds chase things,etc.
What were Pit Bulls bred to do?
/Honest question.


Subdue cattle for execution from what I read a while back.  But according to wikipedia it seems they were bred to eat humans and destroy humanity.
 
2013-05-05 04:16:14 PM  

leadmetal: Trolling plus a lesson in trolling? You're going to have to come up with something more creative than 'tin foil hat and paranoid' if you want to get me on the hook. Also, Who says I want replies? I don't care if anyone replies. Anyway, I've used both statistics and personal experiences before in threads like this. If I really wanted to piss people off and get them to write flaming replies, I learned the hard way that's the way to do it. I'm not in the mood for that today, thus I've largely avoided both intentionally.

However, if you want to read how the modern form of schooling in the USA damages children, I recommend reading what John Taylor Gatto has written on the subject. You'll find all the supporting cites you should ever want there. If that's not enough there are other authors who have addressed where modern government schooling comes from and what it is designed to do that you could read for yet more.


I find Gatto's message noble but naively reliant on being encapsulated in the academic bubble without the real world costs such ideas would require.  It only works if you have a parent who's devoted to teaching their child and identifying the appropriate times to do so and capable of doing both rather well and throughout the child's developmental life.  Great for rich folk who can piss away a dozen or so years of their life for every child every generation just to mold the next and hope they got it right.  Essentially it'd have worked better with single income family models and every second parent has the background of psychologist & educator.  Unrealistic, completely and utterly unrealistic.  Then to extend that and suggest that all home school, even the nutjob bible thumpers' version is better then the public school system?  Nope, lost all faith at that point.

Textbook definition of academic pipe dreamer, he did good work but he should have stayed where he was and molded the structure he had control over more to his own image.  But until the world looks more like startrek's then this one, his ideas are laughably unrealistic, especially as is the suggestion its a viable alternative to what's in place now.  He would do great things if he lived in a star trek like utopia though, I give him that.
 
2013-05-05 04:23:43 PM  

orbister: nekom: I teach my daughter all that she needs to know, she's in Kindergarten but reading at least at a 3rd grade level.  She doesn't go to school to learn, she goes to school to make friends, and learn that while in this household she is the princess, in the rest of the world she's just another kid.  It's important to learn those lessons, and make those friends.

Did she have no friends before she went to school? Did she take no part in group activities outside her immediate family before she went to school?


In all fairness, in rural areas a child may well not. When the nearest child your age is ten miles away, the school day is the only time during which one might see other children. Not surprisingly, summers are a rather solitary three months.
 
2013-05-05 04:24:09 PM  
leadmetal:
Corporate work isn't much different from school. It requires little effort but going above and beyond, thinking out of the box, and so forth are usually punished unless one has political protection. Pretty much like the school experience.

What sort of hogwash is this? I've worked for four companies as a HWe and this is the opposite of everything I've seen. You can't brush all of corporate work with such a broad brush. Though doing so appears to be consistent with your views of practically everything else.
 
2013-05-05 04:32:17 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: leadmetal:
Corporate work isn't much different from school. It requires little effort but going above and beyond, thinking out of the box, and so forth are usually punished unless one has political protection. Pretty much like the school experience.

What sort of hogwash is this? I've worked for four companies as a HWe and this is the opposite of everything I've seen. You can't brush all of corporate work with such a broad brush. Though doing so appears to be consistent with your views of practically everything else.


The only issues with thinking outside the box are 1) having to repeat the idea over and over again, each time using smaller and smaller words / buzzwwords and 2) goring someone's special project.
 
2013-05-05 04:47:25 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Pretty much everyone who's looked into it should know that the quality of education and the socialization of the victims are both inferior to even public schooling,


[citation needed]
 
2013-05-05 04:47:36 PM  

Mad Scientist: Popcorn Johnny: Buy they have great teeth.

Beat me to it.

[i169.photobucket.com image 422x532]


So I don't get the joke with this pic of the girl with the huge smile and home schooling please site the the thread so I can be let in on the joke
 
2013-05-05 04:51:08 PM  

SlothB77: LesserEvil: Mad Scientist: Popcorn Johnny: Buy they have great teeth.

Beat me to it.

[i169.photobucket.com image 422x532]

Has anybody got a link to the original story behind this meme? It's been driving me nuts for years. The earliest reference I can find on Fark is December 2007.

There was a farker who was homeschooled and to prove how normal and well-adjusted he turned out in an in-thread flamewar, he posted a picture of his wife.  That is the picture he posted.

That turned out to be a huge mistake for him.  From what i remember, the word 'Oats' was used frequently in that thread after the wife pic was posted.


Thanks for clearing that one up.
 
2013-05-05 04:53:53 PM  

FunkOut: I've known homeschooled kids. Their behaviour was like that of a foreign culture or alien planet, entirely dictated by the peculiarities of their own family. The ones I knew had no sense of personal space or boundaries.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection_bias
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

In other words, is it not possible that you notice someone weird, then enquire into their schooling, then take it as a valid data point if they were homeschooled?

It's like the way people in Britain think that all American tourists are fat, brash and obnoxious. They aren't, of course - the overwhelming majority of American tourists are charming. But we only notice the brash ones, and we expect them to be American.

I know a lot of home schooled children, socially and professionally. They are without exception well balanced, interesting and sociable people. Mind you, none of the ones I know come from the religious wacko minority of home edders here. and before you ask, I've met the parents ...
 
2013-05-05 05:07:28 PM  

Qellaqan: I think Missouri's history is more complex. There was a northern sympathizing gov, but I believe he was replaced at some point. Many hangovers of the war exist still in mo which I think is odd for such a western state.


Well, it's arguably the least western of the western states.

Regardless, I was really just trying to find something nice to say about Missouri.  Oh, I like Mark Twain and tolerate Meramec Caverns.  That's all I've got for now.
 
2013-05-05 05:13:13 PM  

simplicimus: Uchiha_Cycliste: leadmetal:
Corporate work isn't much different from school. It requires little effort but going above and beyond, thinking out of the box, and so forth are usually punished unless one has political protection. Pretty much like the school experience.

What sort of hogwash is this? I've worked for four companies as a HWe and this is the opposite of everything I've seen. You can't brush all of corporate work with such a broad brush. Though doing so appears to be consistent with your views of practically everything else.

The only issues with thinking outside the box are 1) having to repeat the idea over and over again,
each time using smaller and smaller words / buzzwwords and 2) goring someone's special project


I would argue that thinking outside of the box is what allows for more than just incremental improvements to products, in addition to significant improvements in both verification and validation. And while I'll grant that sometimes it can be difficult to get ideas accepted, sometimes the extra work is worth it
 
2013-05-05 05:19:52 PM  

dumbobruni: dugitman: dumbobruni: cousin & her husband are anti-vax... assuming the kid survives their trip to India next year, of course.

No kidding. Yikes.

it really is quite something to behold. we can't dare question them, but the husband is very vocal in his criticism of others.

ugh, all around.

/he's a "hardcore libertarian"
//you don't say!


This sounds like the premise for Contagion 2. Jesus farking Chist.
 
2013-05-05 05:30:34 PM  

Summer Glau's Love Slave: The professor that chairs the engineering department at my school once told us that home schooled kids almost always wash out before their third semester. They can't handle the work load (which is amazing btw).

/Don't know if this is anectodal or a peer reviewed factoid.
//All 3 of the home schooled kids who enrolled with me in 2011 have already withdrawn...




This is entirely possible, but his reasoning is a little narrow minded in my opinion. I was a homeschool student who dropped out of college twice, but it certainly didnt have anything to do with workload. On the contrary, after being used to learning at my own pace, college felt like downright torture. We moved at a snails pace, and I felt that my time was literally being wasted every day in class to the point that I just became so frustrated that I stopped going.

Started an electronics manufacturing company instead. If I want to learn something, i use a book or google.
 
2013-05-05 05:41:02 PM  

Qellaqan: leadmetal: Many people are bringing up the social downsides of homeschooling but not bringing up the social downsides of government schooling. The social pressures of conforming and the damage done to those who refuse or cannot to conform are just as if not more damaging.  It's not like the children in schools are what one would call judgment free and accommodating of people who are different. Those of us who experienced them first hand know this although those who thrived in such an environment I don't expect to even recognize that it happens. 

Furthermore, the institution itself being about creating a more or less uniform product doesn't help matters any. This goes back the industrial mindset of the late 19th and early 20th century. It was a large part of the school system that it spawned. Uniform product, in this case workers, people, was considered beneficial and was something the traditional american schools did not produce. Traditional american schools were more like the happy homeschooling the author of TFA put forth as his own experience. One of independence, being treated as an adult, and resentment of being filed, indexed, numbered, etc...

Not enough bites, eh?

\duh, almost every aspect about a lot of socialization is conformation. Is this news?


The fact that conformity is so prized annoys me. What happened to "be the best YOU that you can be"?
 
2013-05-05 05:58:27 PM  

HairBolus: RickN99: HairBolus: In families that home-school usually

1) The mother is unemployed and doesn't have anything better to do.
2) The family is cheap and in cases where the local public schools suck don't see why they should send their children to a private school since Mom is just as good as those fancy teachers.

#1 is often caused by "family values" that say a woman's place is in the home.

Cheapness is often self defeating - they won't move to a school district where the public schools don't suck because the taxes are higher, and heaven forbid that Mom get a job so that they can afford those taxes. Meanwhile houses in good districts are better investments than those where schools suck so home schoolers become trapped in declining communities.

Citations for any of the "facts" that you're asserting?

Here are some government figures on home schooling
Highest education level of parentsHigh school diploma or less             18,334 Vocational/technical or some college    15,177 Bachelor's degree/some graduate school   9,412 Graduate/professional degree             7,264
Household income$25,000 or less     16,776 $25,001 to $50,000  15,220 $50,001 to $75,000   8,576 Over $75,000         9,615
Homeschooling is weighted towards the poorer (and cheaper) and less educated.


That's useless information without corresponding information covering the total number of parents putting their child through any sort of education so you can gauge the percentage of students overall. If there are more parents altogether, who have less education and make less money, by a wide margin, than there are parent's in the wealthy/educated category, that data would show that those parents are overrepresented in the homeschooling group. Maybe not the total majority, but still more inclined to use the method per individual than other social strata.
 
2013-05-05 06:03:16 PM  
it's all about the parents

there's nut job parents in the group my wife is/was on (no, really like I was tempted to have a cop at the last meeting type of crazy)
there's the angry people who are butt hurt about some minor thing in the public school and likely won't make it a full year before they send their kid back to public school
there's the folks who do it for religious reasons
there's folks who do it because the kid has add/adhd and think the school system won't work (middle daughter)
then there's folks who don't think the school system can do a good job for the kids for some reason or another
 
2013-05-05 06:07:19 PM  
 jso2897: Stone Meadow: This is why the US should have a no-homeschooling law like Germany.

I would not choose homeschooling for my own children, but neither would I choose Germany as my model for civil liberty.

Contemporary Germany is nothing like Germany in the late 1930s to mid 1940s. Get over it. Germany is now far more liberal on civil positions than the most liberal of all liberal states in the US. For example, they teach sex education to 8 - 10 year olds with giant models of vulvae and penises, showing how the penis is inserted and all. They have no speed limits on the autobahn (but, obtaining a driver's license is not a brief trip to the DMV for a written test; it really requires a lot of driver's training with real practicing of situational driving conditions). They have decriminalized -- and now, maybe have legalized -- prostitution.


Germany may be very liberal, except if you want to homeschool your children.  Then you will be fined, and your children can be removed from your home.  Not a great example of civil liberty there.  Just ask the Romeikes
 
2013-05-05 06:09:36 PM  

fnordfocus: Qellaqan: I think Missouri's history is more complex. There was a northern sympathizing gov, but I believe he was replaced at some point. Many hangovers of the war exist still in mo which I think is odd for such a western state.

Well, it's arguably the least western of the western states.

Regardless, I was really just trying to find something nice to say about Missouri.  Oh, I like Mark Twain and tolerate Meramec Caverns.  That's all I've got for now.


I meant western by civil war standards. Stl and kc are nice cities and nice cheap rent. Both have nice art museums. Schlafly and boulevard are worthy beers. But otherwise there isn't much excitement. For the most part, the rural parts are a methy waste of time.
 
2013-05-05 06:11:35 PM  

mrlewish: Wait until homeschooling parents go after public school funds. Already did it with charter schools.


Considering what it costs, I'd like to at least offset the cost of school supplies and books on the taxes

/my wife would probably just order more stuff though
//
 
2013-05-05 06:15:58 PM  

JohnnyFootball: We are thinking of homeschooling our two children. One is starting middle school and the other is finishing elementary. Our oldest had to serve detention for the first time this year, he was reading a book from home in class. He had to serve detention for not following directions (he was told to sit quietly, not read. Our youngest brought home ten worksheets that were completely filled in, he told us they were "shut-up sheets" he worked on when he finished sections of the standardized tests before time expired. They get bored with the pace of learning, it's only a matter of time before the lack of effort school requires transfers to the rest if their lives.


At least see if you can transfer them to a different school

see if there's a magnet school in your area if you do decide to keep them in public school
 
2013-05-05 06:23:46 PM  

Uchiha_Cycliste: simplicimus: Uchiha_Cycliste: leadmetal:
Corporate work isn't much different from school. It requires little effort but going above and beyond, thinking out of the box, and so forth are usually punished unless one has political protection. Pretty much like the school experience.

What sort of hogwash is this? I've worked for four companies as a HWe and this is the opposite of everything I've seen. You can't brush all of corporate work with such a broad brush. Though doing so appears to be consistent with your views of practically everything else.

The only issues with thinking outside the box are 1) having to repeat the idea over and over again,
each time using smaller and smaller words / buzzwwords and 2) goring someone's special project

I would argue that thinking outside of the box is what allows for more than just incremental improvements to products, in addition to significant improvements in both verification and validation. And while I'll grant that sometimes it can be difficult to get ideas accepted, sometimes the extra work is worth it


I agree that innovation is beneficial, and frequently difficult to get implement. On the other hand, management and consultants can pose quite an obstacle.
 
2013-05-05 06:28:13 PM  

Fuzzjon: That's useless information without corresponding information covering the total number of parents putting their child through any sort of education so you can gauge the percentage of students overall.


It's also useless information unless you correlate the parents' qualifications with the children's learning levels. Maybe all those parents who didn't finish high school are home schooling 5 year olds?
 
2013-05-05 06:29:28 PM  

HairBolus: RickN99: HairBolus: In families that home-school usually

1) The mother is unemployed and doesn't have anything better to do.
2) The family is cheap and in cases where the local public schools suck don't see why they should send their children to a private school since Mom is just as good as those fancy teachers.

#1 is often caused by "family values" that say a woman's place is in the home.

Cheapness is often self defeating - they won't move to a school district where the public schools don't suck because the taxes are higher, and heaven forbid that Mom get a job so that they can afford those taxes. Meanwhile houses in good districts are better investments than those where schools suck so home schoolers become trapped in declining communities.

Citations for any of the "facts" that you're asserting?

Here are some government figures on home schooling
Highest education level of parentsHigh school diploma or less             18,334 Vocational/technical or some college    15,177 Bachelor's degree/some graduate school   9,412 Graduate/professional degree             7,264
Household income$25,000 or less     16,776 $25,001 to $50,000  15,220 $50,001 to $75,000   8,576 Over $75,000         9,615
Homeschooling is weighted towards the poorer (and cheaper) and less educated.


So the 1999 numbers are all you're looking at?  If you could read your own damn chart you would see a shift in the numbers towards higher educated, higher income parents teaching their children at home
 
2013-05-05 06:30:09 PM  

marymarch: Germany may be very liberal, except if you want to homeschool your children.


Or if you're Asian. Or Romany. Or Turkish. Germany is still a spectacularly racist society, and that's not just Bavaria.
 
2013-05-05 06:47:31 PM  

simplicimus: Uchiha_Cycliste: simplicimus: Uchiha_Cycliste: leadmetal:
Corporate work isn't much different from school. It requires little effort but going above and beyond, thinking out of the box, and so forth are usually punished unless one has political protection. Pretty much like the school experience.

What sort of hogwash is this? I've worked for four companies as a HWe and this is the opposite of everything I've seen. You can't brush all of corporate work with such a broad brush. Though doing so appears to be consistent with your views of practically everything else.

The only issues with thinking outside the box are 1) having to repeat the idea over and over again,
each time using smaller and smaller words / buzzwwords and 2) goring someone's special project

I would argue that thinking outside of the box is what allows for more than just incremental improvements to products, in addition to significant improvements in both verification and validation. And while I'll grant that sometimes it can be difficult to get ideas accepted, sometimes the extra work is worth it

I agree that innovation is beneficial, and frequently difficult to get implement. On the other hand, management and consultants can pose quite an obstacle.


I think it depends a lot on the company where I have worked for the last 5 and a half years, management is really helpful. They do an important job AND they have the technical chops to assist in efforts. I think with respect to blocking outside the box ideas, ideally they only stand in the path of stupid ideas. Either way it's gonna take work to get something new approved, but if it's a good idea you'll win the battles and if it's a bad idea they will successfully prevent you and them from being hanged.
 
2013-05-05 06:49:11 PM  

Ennuipoet: The scariest thing I can think of is this guy is probably not exaggerating about the kids he met.


No, the scariest thing is that the kids he wrote about in the article are now old enough to vote.
This is why so many southern states have come thisclose to getting their own FARK tags, along with Florida.

All you people from the south I see on forums like this who say "this isn't all of us!" and who have a decent number of working brain cells need to get your asses out their and vote, especially if you're republicans. If you can't see your way to voting for the democrat in the general election, at least make sure the crazy doesn't become the republican candidate in the primary.

This is your responsibility... or else people like these will elect your public officials and run your states.
It's up to you.
 
2013-05-05 07:10:03 PM  

rewind2846: All you people from the south I see on forums like this who say "this isn't all of us!" and who have a decent number of working brain cells need to get your asses out there and vote...

/FTFM grammar nazi
 
2013-05-05 07:19:22 PM  

Alonjar: This guy is basically me.

Same deal, moved to shiat tier school district in Virginia, ended up homeschooling as a cheaper alternative to private school.  Although I would go to a homeschool tutoring type facility 3 hours a day 3 days a week to learn from actual teachers and get help where needed... but the vast majority of stuff was self taught.

Myself and a few others were just.. normal people.  The "rest" were not.  I went to a public graduation ceremony with like 800 other homeschool children, and the main speaker went on a 5 minute rant about how gays are going to hell.  I thought my girlfriends (gay) aunt was going to explode.

Its a superior avenue of education for children with the drive and ability to self teach.  You can advance much more quickly than standard public schooling.  It does NOT take an entire year to learn.. well, fark.. anything.


My hubby and I are contemplating doing this, we're very worried about socialization though and other nutters.

We would prefer hippies to evangelicals though, the hippies are becoming prominent homeschoolers.
 
2013-05-05 07:32:53 PM  
Danny and Denny were strictly forbidden from ever watching television; I was shocked upon learning that 12-year-old Danny had never heard of The Simpsons, let alone watched an episode.

2.bp.blogspot.com

That's probably good thing, seeing as they're on it.
 
2013-05-05 07:48:06 PM  
Why can't I "home college" myself?  I figure if I were allowed to do so, I could earn a Master's degree in a couple years.
 
2013-05-05 07:56:38 PM  

LesserEvil: Mad Scientist: Popcorn Johnny: Buy they have great teeth.

Beat me to it.

[i169.photobucket.com image 422x532]

Has anybody got a link to the original story behind this meme? It's been driving me nuts for years. The earliest reference I can find on Fark is December 2007.


I remember it, it was a thread similar to this and the guy said: "My wife was homeschooled and she turned out great!"  The thread laughed at him and called her a horseface.It wasn't that funny it was bullying.

Just like that shadowbox memorium of a farker's stillborn baby.

It isn't funny unless you're a virgin neckbeard in his mother's basement.
 
2013-05-05 08:07:48 PM  
speaking of Europe, homeschooling is somewhat legal in France (as with many rules there, it depends on who you ask).

if your child has autism, you have two options: homeschool, or leave the country. it is still considered to be a psychological disorder and not a neurological one. most schools will not take autistic kids, and they are at risk of being institutionalized.
 
2013-05-05 08:15:00 PM  

jso2897: Stone Meadow: This is why the US should have a no-homeschooling law like Germany.

I would not choose homeschooling for my own children, but neither would I choose Germany as my model for civil liberty.


They have to keep their citizenry on a pretty tight leash or else the trains start running on time.
 
2013-05-05 08:33:34 PM  

j0ndas: That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.


THAT is the problem. I don't want my children to "get along better with adults and less with most children", I want them to get along with their peers. I want them to get along with other children first. They will have the rest of their lives to be adults, they can get along with other adults then. Let them be shallow and vapid. Let them indulge in the latest fads. Let them do stupid things, as long as those things don't result in permanent injury or jail time.

Let them be children while they are children. They only get one shot at it. That is one of the many reasons why I think sending them to school with others is important.
 
2013-05-05 08:41:45 PM  

ladyfortuna: orclover: This IS a bookmark first of all.  My wife, myself and my mother all homeschool my youngest son (9) and have done so for almost a year now.  The reasons we do so and what led us to such a hard decision would take a 20 page article to explain.  To sum up, fark public school system and the power abusing farks they harbor. Not to mention the psychotic little shiats who run rampant through the halls physically abusing anybody they wish.   Getting him out of that meat grinder probably saved his life or at least his future sanity.

Too farking much to say on the subject.  Would need hours and a few dozen drinks to get it all out.  Just.  fark that god damn public school system and those farking teachers and that god damn principal and those psychotic farking kids.

/fark AISD
Depends entirely on the school system. I grew up in Monroe County NY, which has both some of the highest property taxes in the nation but also some really great school districts. They also hired a no-nonsense principle at the high school right when I got there who dealt with fights by calling the police and having charges filed, which was a huge deterrent. I saw one fight the entire time I was there (three years - freshmen had a separate building), and it was during midterms when no teachers were around.

Anyway that district was so good that my sister said it was leagues better than the private university she taught at in NW Ohio. That should tell you something, both about the district and probably NW Ohio...


That is the problem with the American public school system, you have to buy your way into a good district and since school districts are locally based, it creates a very fragmented system.

I would much rather have it be state-based with it coming out of an income and corporate taxes. That way everyone gets equal funding.
 
2013-05-05 08:46:45 PM  

Mellotiger: Yep, that's how home-schoolers are. My only problem with the article is when he brought up the civil war. Thing is, it actually was about states rights and not just slavery. If it was about slavery, the emancipation proclamation would have happened before the war. Think about it. If the war was about stopping slavery, wouldn't slavery have been made illegal first and them the war would come after the south refused to comply?


And another who cannot make logic connections.
Lat me 'splain it to you, slowly... the Southern slaveholding states... fought as imagined sovereign territories... for the right... to own and traffic in... slaves. That is what they wanted the right to do, own and sell slaves. There was really nothing else that separated the two halves of the nation so distinctly as this.

Lincoln realized that the Proclamation would be useless unless those states were still part of the united states, so his goal was to make sure they continued to be a part of the whole, then apply the Emancipation Proclamation to the slaves held within. If you'll check, the Proclamation was signed in the third year of the war, january 1, 1863.
 
2013-05-05 08:50:10 PM  

loonatic112358: HairBolus: RickN99: HairBolus: In families that home-school usually

1) The mother is unemployed and doesn't have anything better to do.
2) The family is cheap and in cases where the local public schools suck don't see why they should send their children to a private school since Mom is just as good as those fancy teachers.

#1 is often caused by "family values" that say a woman's place is in the home.

Cheapness is often self defeating - they won't move to a school district where the public schools don't suck because the taxes are higher, and heaven forbid that Mom get a job so that they can afford those taxes. Meanwhile houses in good districts are better investments than those where schools suck so home schoolers become trapped in declining communities.

Citations for any of the "facts" that you're asserting?

Here are some government figures on home schooling
Highest education level of parentsHigh school diploma or less             18,334 Vocational/technical or some college    15,177 Bachelor's degree/some graduate school   9,412 Graduate/professional degree             7,264
Household income$25,000 or less     16,776 $25,001 to $50,000  15,220 $50,001 to $75,000   8,576 Over $75,000         9,615
Homeschooling is weighted towards the poorer (and cheaper) and less educated.

So the 1999 numbers are all you're looking at?  If you could read your own damn chart you would see a shift in the numbers towards higher educated, higher income parents teaching their children at home


Did you read the table? The same general pattern holds for all years.

Would you want your high school age children in public or private school taught by someone who didn't graduate from college? A whole bunch of homeschoolers think that that is a good idea.
 
2013-05-05 09:29:48 PM  

HairBolus: Did you read the table? The same general pattern holds for all years.Would you want your high school age children in public or private school taught by someone who didn't graduate from college? A whole bunch of homeschoolers think that that is a good idea.


I don't think you can read your own data, there has been a shift in the demographics from 1999 to 2007 in the chart you use, and I would think you'd be in favor of that.
Has the shift been to a 100% only college educated, no, has it been a noticeable improvement? I'd love to see if there was a chart from the last 5 years to find out if that trend had continued

Also, lack of a degree does not mean that a person is unqualified, all it means is that they were unable to attend college/university
 
2013-05-05 09:30:35 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: jso2897: That was my problem - I discovered, to my shock, that I didn't have it - but i won't let it happen again, and you'd better not, either. Let this be a lesson to you.

Lesson learned. You wouldn't happen to have a spare copy of Rainbow Brite girl, would you?


i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-05 09:30:45 PM  

rewind2846: Mellotiger: Yep, that's how home-schoolers are. My only problem with the article is when he brought up the civil war. Thing is, it actually was about states rights and not just slavery. If it was about slavery, the emancipation proclamation would have happened before the war. Think about it. If the war was about stopping slavery, wouldn't slavery have been made illegal first and them the war would come after the south refused to comply?

And another who cannot make logic connections.
Lat me 'splain it to you, slowly... the Southern slaveholding states... fought as imagined sovereign territories... for the right... to own and traffic in... slaves. That is what they wanted the right to do, own and sell slaves. There was really nothing else that separated the two halves of the nation so distinctly as this.

Lincoln realized that the Proclamation would be useless unless those states were still part of the united states, so his goal was to make sure they continued to be a part of the whole, then apply the Emancipation Proclamation to the slaves held within. If you'll check, the Proclamation was signed in the third year of the war, january 1, 1863.


Maybe keep reading until you see some of my other responses. I'm not saying it did not involve slavery, but if you think that it was only slavery that it was about, and that the war was to free the slaves, then you don't know history, period. The states in the south did want the freedom to keep their "way of life"or whatever, but its much deeper than slavery vs non slavery. Its well known that the president had many doubts about the emancipation proclamation, and in fact is known to have said that he would have pushed to keep slavery legal if that would have saved the union, but that outcome was not in the cards. Feel free to respond and be as condescending as you wish, but your attitude will not change history or my logic at all.
 
2013-05-05 09:34:57 PM  
JWideman:  Instead, their father explained to me that he had taught them that there's no difference between fiction and lying. He shut the door in my face when I pointed out that he was lying to them.

The father must get a real kick out of one of the crucial scenes of the movie "Galaxy Quest."
 
2013-05-05 09:35:23 PM  

mccallcl: Not really, no. What he's saying makes sense: home schooled kids spend more time with adults, so they act like adults. I don't have any opinion either way, except that you're probably just being sensitive. Lighten up.


Part of the public school experience is about learning how to govern yourself and get along in a group where everyone is on the surface equal, with the same status.  You can learn to choose a leader, to lead, to make alliances and consensus.

All the "talking to adults" stuff doesn't achieve that, because you're just putting the kid in an environment where social rules already determine who is on top and has to defer to whom.

The author of TFA strikes me as an unfortunate case if he already dropped out of college due to being unwilling to deal with rules.  He's missing out on all kinds of opportunities, really.

/at least in Japanese public schools it was that way
//but then the teacher doesn't step in to referee every little disagreement, either
 
2013-05-05 09:39:49 PM  

jso2897: How to educate one's kids is a matter of personal choice, and people make different choices in that regard for different reasons. it would be nice if people could respect one another's decisions on the matter, but to read this thread, that's a skill neither public  nor private nor homeschooling teaches.


See, this is where you fail. I don't have to "respect" anothers decisions on the matter if I think that they are stupid for doing so, and can explain why. I obviously cannot stop them from making those decisions, nor would I want to... but that doesn't mean that I should not express my opinion of the subject in a forum such as this one.

That's how free speech works. If you do something stupid I have the right to call you out on it, and you have the right to refute my opinion. To you "respect" seems to mean "I should be able to do as I wish and no one should be able to say anything about it"... but the real world doesn't work like that.
 
2013-05-05 09:51:51 PM  

leadmetal: What I find amusing is the assumption that government school does not push it's own agenda of conditioning the children to believe certain myths. That the methods of schooling weren't developed around the needs of government and corporations.


They absolutely do, which is why it's important to keep involved in your local schools (and to be vigilant about corporate takeover in the form of charter schools in particular).

But socialization through the public schools is part of their goal, yes, it's part of what supposedly helps the melting pot to give everyone a foundation of what it is to be "American."  How valuable that is debatable, but I suspect a lot of the homeschooling parents who currently love that everything is unregulated might start feeling differently if people decided to all homeschool and didn't do anything remotely like the precious "traditional basics, ah, the 50's..." schools they remember, and didn't bother teaching in English or anything even.

Qellaqan: But seriously, people who say they get along with adults better than peers *aren't* more socially adjusted. They're less socially adjusted. Maligning your peers doesn't diminish the fact that even if they're so simple, you still can't get along with them. I just utterly disagree with the whole "children who spend more time with adults are more mature" truism (calling all only children!). Children who spend more time with adults might learn to mimic adult social mores to a greater extent, but that isn't maturity. Socialization is really about getting along with everyone, or at least faking it.


Werd.

Ikahoshi: A friend worked in admissions at a fairly well respected university, and she said a surprising number of the homeschooled have something like a nervous breakdown or total academic implosion after the first or second semesters. Some students do- that's just the way of the world... some people have trouble adjusting. However, an inordinate number of the homeschooled seem to end up that way, to the point where it's almost stereotypical.

She since moved on to the fundraising department but before she left there were discussions as to whether or not they should be admitted in the first place given a large percentage of them flame out or just can't cope psychologically.


I also know some people in college admissions, and they say the homeschooling population seems to break widely - there are those who are almost absurdly over-prepared (IF they can hack the transition to being on an external schedule) and there are those who are so laughably unprepared that they don't even have a clue just how unprepared they are.   The latter group is not all religious homeschoolers, either - plenty of free wheeling hippie style "unschoolers" also fall into that category. (Not to say that unschooling is inherently bad, either, but it's easy for a lazy parent to eff it up - or more like it's easy for someone who just doesn't really give a shiat to call their benign neglect "unschooling.")
 
2013-05-05 09:57:21 PM  

shortymac: That is the problem with the American public school system, you have to buy your way into a good district and since school districts are locally based, it creates a very fragmented system.

I would much rather have it be state-based with it coming out of an income and corporate taxes. That way everyone gets equal funding.


Agreed.
 
2013-05-05 10:03:13 PM  

Mellotiger: rewind2846: Mellotiger: Yep, that's how home-schoolers are. My only problem with the article is when he brought up the civil war. Thing is, it actually was about states rights and not just slavery. If it was about slavery, the emancipation proclamation would have happened before the war. Think about it. If the war was about stopping slavery, wouldn't slavery have been made illegal first and them the war would come after the south refused to comply?

And another who cannot make logic connections.
Lat me 'splain it to you, slowly... the Southern slaveholding states... fought as imagined sovereign territories... for the right... to own and traffic in... slaves. That is what they wanted the right to do, own and sell slaves. There was really nothing else that separated the two halves of the nation so distinctly as this.

Lincoln realized that the Proclamation would be useless unless those states were still part of the united states, so his goal was to make sure they continued to be a part of the whole, then apply the Emancipation Proclamation to the slaves held within. If you'll check, the Proclamation was signed in the third year of the war, january 1, 1863.

Maybe keep reading until you see some of my other responses. I'm not saying it did not involve slavery, but if you think that it was only slavery that it was about, and that the war was to free the slaves, then you don't know history, period. The states in the south did want the freedom to keep their "way of life"or whatever, but its much deeper than slavery vs non slavery. Its well known that the president had many doubts about the emancipation proclamation, and in fact is known to have said that he would have pushed to keep slavery legal if that would have saved the union, but that outcome was not in the cards. Feel free to respond and be as condescending as you wish, but your attitude will not change history or my logic at all.


No, I do not think that slavery was "all" the war was about, not by a longshot... but it was a major part of why the war was fought, because that "peculiar" institution was what made the south run, politically, economically, and most important, socially. Anyone who would disturb what to these people was a balanced system as the enemy, even through the civil rights era and southern rants about "outside northern agitators stirring up our good nigras".  Slavery was such an integral part of who they were as a people, that asking them to give it up would be like asking someone to cut off their own arm.
"How dare they tell us what to do!" is an attitude many who whine about "states rights" still hold today.
Slavery was the foundation of their lives, and they were not going to give it up without a fight, which they started at Fort Sumter.

btw, presidents have doubts about bills and laws that they draft and sign all the time. This was new territory, as an enslaved people had never been set free in this country before, especially one which had been in bondage for so long.
 
2013-05-05 10:17:07 PM  

orclover: aevorea: I'm a special ed teaching assistant. I work with special ed kids in the mainstream classroom


Our oldest son has been in "special ed" since grade 3, he's 15 now.  The majority of what I have seen of the Special Education system has been one horrifying nightmare after another punctuated by seasonal meetings that last up to 3 hours with groups of 5 to 15 people (including superintendents, teachers, faculty of all sorts and visiting "specialist" of every sort).  The meetings mostly seem to serve the purpose of having all the senior members pat each other on the back and our sons name occasionally thrown into the conversation, usually by me or his mother.  His classroom in Jr. High was an abomination.  A storage room for teenagers in the furthest portable building on the campus.  It smelled of freshly cleaned urine and feces on every visit, there was visible damage on virtually everything.  The "students" spent their time playing on game systems they brought or watching cartoons on tv, there wasn't even a shadow of an attempt to educate them.  We would receive the usual report cards from the school:  Aced english, math, history, farking everything A to A+, they all did.  He never took a test. He could barely read or write, knew nothing of history but what we had taught him.  At one of the larger meetings I finally lost my shiat and raised hell about it.  They apologized and said they would look into it.  His next grades were all solidly 70 across the board on the next report card, and he still had not taken a single test.

Lady, if given the ability I would burn the whole damn education system to the farking ground.  No offense to you.  But what we have here is an atrocity, If I believed in hell I would hope they all burn.  But there is no hope, no change, no stopping it and our children serve no purpose other than to be chewed up by the machine and then shiat out into society.  I wish there was an affordable alternative to this other than refusing to play.


My brother is handicapped and we went through the system as well.

In Elementary school it wasn't so bad, he got bused to the "special ed" class at another school in another school district.

When he was about to go to middle school instead of sending him to the special ed class the local middle school insisted that they could handle my brother's case there... by throwing him in with the ESL kids.

They just wanted the extra special ed money and didn't give a damn, my parents had to put my brother in a private school about 1.5 hours away and then sued the district over it.

Thankfully it was only for that one year BUT we didn't get the private school money back until the case got settled a few years later.
 
2013-05-05 10:30:39 PM  

loonatic112358: Also, lack of a degree does not mean that a person is unqualified, all it means is that they were unable to attend college/university


Sure, it is possible that someone who hasn't been to college might do a good job preparing someone for college - though difficult since they may have warped views about college. Overconfidence from lack of experience can really mess up things. Stupid or unknowledgeable people tend to overestimate their abilities because they don't know better.

High schools require their teachers to be college grads so at least they have some direct knowledge of what they should be preparing the students for.

Some of the problems with homeschoolers is that they are trying to clone themselves and if their kids are stupid in the same way they are then that is good.
 
2013-05-05 10:36:36 PM  

rewind2846: Mellotiger: rewind2846: Mellotiger: Yep, that's how home-schoolers are. My only problem with the article is when he brought up the civil war. Thing is, it actually was about states rights and not just slavery. If it was about slavery, the emancipation proclamation would have happened before the war. Think about it. If the war was about stopping slavery, wouldn't slavery have been made illegal first and them the war would come after the south refused to comply?

And another who cannot make logic connections.
Lat me 'splain it to you, slowly... the Southern slaveholding states... fought as imagined sovereign territories... for the right... to own and traffic in... slaves. That is what they wanted the right to do, own and sell slaves. There was really nothing else that separated the two halves of the nation so distinctly as this.

Lincoln realized that the Proclamation would be useless unless those states were still part of the united states, so his goal was to make sure they continued to be a part of the whole, then apply the Emancipation Proclamation to the slaves held within. If you'll check, the Proclamation was signed in the third year of the war, january 1, 1863.

Maybe keep reading until you see some of my other responses. I'm not saying it did not involve slavery, but if you think that it was only slavery that it was about, and that the war was to free the slaves, then you don't know history, period. The states in the south did want the freedom to keep their "way of life"or whatever, but its much deeper than slavery vs non slavery. Its well known that the president had many doubts about the emancipation proclamation, and in fact is known to have said that he would have pushed to keep slavery legal if that would have saved the union, but that outcome was not in the cards. Feel free to respond and be as condescending as you wish, but your attitude will not change history or my logic at all.

No, I do not think that slavery was "all" the war was about, not by a lo ...


Umm, Slavery was abolished in Canada and England before the civil war started.
 
2013-05-05 11:13:14 PM  
I think homeschooling is great. The more people who are home-schooled, the less competition there will be for the few STEM jobs that haven't been off-shored or displaced by H-1Bs.
 
2013-05-05 11:40:39 PM  

rewind2846: Mellotiger: rewind2846: Mellotiger: Yep, that's how home-schoolers are. My only problem with the article is when he brought up the civil war. Thing is, it actually was about states rights and not just slavery. If it was about slavery, the emancipation proclamation would have happened before the war. Think about it. If the war was about stopping slavery, wouldn't slavery have been made illegal first and them the war would come after the south refused to comply?

And another who cannot make logic connections.
Lat me 'splain it to you, slowly... the Southern slaveholding states... fought as imagined sovereign territories... for the right... to own and traffic in... slaves. That is what they wanted the right to do, own and sell slaves. There was really nothing else that separated the two halves of the nation so distinctly as this.

Lincoln realized that the Proclamation would be useless unless those states were still part of the united states, so his goal was to make sure they continued to be a part of the whole, then apply the Emancipation Proclamation to the slaves held within. If you'll check, the Proclamation was signed in the third year of the war, january 1, 1863.

Maybe keep reading until you see some of my other responses. I'm not saying it did not involve slavery, but if you think that it was only slavery that it was about, and that the war was to free the slaves, then you don't know history, period. The states in the south did want the freedom to keep their "way of life"or whatever, but its much deeper than slavery vs non slavery. Its well known that the president had many doubts about the emancipation proclamation, and in fact is known to have said that he would have pushed to keep slavery legal if that would have saved the union, but that outcome was not in the cards. Feel free to respond and be as condescending as you wish, but your attitude will not change history or my logic at all.

No, I do not think that slavery was "all" the war was about, not by a longshot... but it was a major part of why the war was fought, because that "peculiar" institution was what made the south run, politically, economically, and most important, socially. Anyone who would disturb what to these people was a balanced system as the enemy, even through the civil rights era and southern rants about "outside northern agitators stirring up our good nigras".  Slavery was such an integral part of who they were as a people, that asking them to give it up would be like asking someone to cut off their own arm.
"How dare they tell us what to do!" is an attitude many who whine about "states rights" still hold today.
Slavery was the foundation of their lives, and they were not going to give it up without a fight, which they started at Fort Sumter.

btw, presidents have doubts about bills and laws that they draft and sign all the time. This was new territory, as an enslaved people had never been set free in this country before, especially one which had been in bondage for so long.


So you say I can't make logic connections because I said the war wasn't all about slavery, then you agree that the war was not only about slavery. Okay, I see where this is going. My only point was made in my Boobies, you know. Its been repeated several times now. And apparently we agree to some extent, so...what's next? Should we just continue to restate the same things, or is there actually an endgame? You say that slavery was the biggest contributing factor, and I agree. I do not agree, however, that the war was to end slavery, I hold that the war was to save the union. Where is the conflict here?
 
2013-05-05 11:44:45 PM  

shortymac: Umm, Slavery was abolished in Canada and England before the civil war started.


Which has what to do with slavery in the united states?
Here it wasn't just about business, it was about the very way of life for white people in the southern states that had slavery. It was part of who they were, and if they were going to give it up, they were going to do so on their terms and not because some northerner told them to.

From reading accounts of the time, I believe those who supported it actually NEEDED slavery, simply so that they would not have to deal with their own inadequacies and not just for economic reasons. Even whites who didn't own slaves (and most didn't) could point to the people picking cotton in the fields in the hot sun for 12 hours a day and say to themselves "I may not be much, but I'm better than them". Even when slavery ended and Jim Crow laws went into effect, the sentiment remained.

Canada and england did have the same psychology or history.
 
2013-05-05 11:50:06 PM  

rewind2846: Canada and england did not have the same psychology or history.


/FTFM
 
2013-05-05 11:58:24 PM  

Mellotiger: rewind2846: Mellotiger: rewind2846: Mellotiger: Yep, that's how home-schoolers are. My only problem with the article is when he brought up the civil war. Thing is, it actually was about states rights and not just slavery. If it was about slavery, the emancipation proclamation would have happened before the war. Think about it. If the war was about stopping slavery, wouldn't slavery have been made illegal first and them the war would come after the south refused to comply?

And another who cannot make logic connections.
Lat me 'splain it to you, slowly... the Southern slaveholding states... fought as imagined sovereign territories... for the right... to own and traffic in... slaves. That is what they wanted the right to do, own and sell slaves. There was really nothing else that separated the two halves of the nation so distinctly as this.

Lincoln realized that the Proclamation would be useless unless those states were still part of the united states, so his goal was to make sure they continued to be a part of the whole, then apply the Emancipation Proclamation to the slaves held within. If you'll check, the Proclamation was signed in the third year of the war, january 1, 1863.

Maybe keep reading until you see some of my other responses. I'm not saying it did not involve slavery, but if you think that it was only slavery that it was about, and that the war was to free the slaves, then you don't know history, period. The states in the south did want the freedom to keep their "way of life"or whatever, but its much deeper than slavery vs non slavery. Its well known that the president had many doubts about the emancipation proclamation, and in fact is known to have said that he would have pushed to keep slavery legal if that would have saved the union, but that outcome was not in the cards. Feel free to respond and be as condescending as you wish, but your attitude will not change history or my logic at all.

No, I do not think that slavery was "all" the war was about, not by a longshot... but it was a major part of why the war was fought, because that "peculiar" institution was what made the south run, politically, economically, and most important, socially. Anyone who would disturb what to these people was a balanced system as the enemy, even through the civil rights era and southern rants about "outside northern agitators stirring up our good nigras".  Slavery was such an integral part of who they were as a people, that asking them to give it up would be like asking someone to cut off their own arm.
"How dare they tell us what to do!" is an attitude many who whine about "states rights" still hold today.
Slavery was the foundation of their lives, and they were not going to give it up without a fight, which they started at Fort Sumter.

btw, presidents have doubts about bills and laws that they draft and sign all the time. This was new territory, as an enslaved people had never been set free in this country before, especially one which had been in bondage for so long.

So you say I can't make logic connections because I said the war wasn't all about slavery, then you agree that the war was not only about slavery. Okay, I see where this is going. My only point was made in my Boobies, you know. Its been repeated several times now. And apparently we agree to some extent, so...what's next? Should we just continue to restate the same things, or is there actually an endgame? You say that slavery was the biggest contributing factor, and I agree. I do not agree, however, that the war was to end slavery, I hold that the war was to save the union. Where is the conflict here?


Boobies? Are you farking kidding me? Pretty sure that was supposed to be "Boobies" or something, but I like the way it reads, even if it doesn't make sense.
 
2013-05-06 01:09:23 AM  

Qellaqan: JWideman: Regarding the post up-thread...
This is what clever trolling actually looks like.

I dunno, the government rant's pretty cut and dried, everyone falls on the "you're nuts" side of the spectrum. (Actually, it was too dull to bother to read for me. I have no trouble believing in damaged thinking and there are too many examples to ever both with one of them except perhaps in person.)

The one above totally sounds like things "clever" kids would tell me as to why their parents told them they were special, rather than maladjusted. So it's either true or a good imitation, and seems to have drawn fire from both sides.

But whatever. Usually I find accusations of trolling really tedious, but if that one was constructed, I would find it impressive since it resonated with me.


To be fair, the Prussian school system did serve as the model for our public schools. But a lot of countries use it too, and for the same reason we do. Our problems are not born out of the model, but for several other reasons. A big one being that our education system is underfunded.
This system was chosen because it increases the overall education of a country's population, which has many benefits - less poverty, less crime, the country competes better in the world market, etc. Granted, the poorer members of the populace aren't as well-educated as the richer ones. However, the least educated person under this system is still more educated than they would be under the old system. The old system being private schools for the rich, and fark all for everyone else. I'm not sure what system the anti-schoolers would prefer us use. Any system that replaces the current one, with the exception of education only for the rich, would be at least equally underfunded.
 
2013-05-06 01:10:50 AM  

Mellotiger: Mellotiger: rewind2846: Mellotiger: rewind2846: Mellotiger: Yep, that's how home-schoolers are. My only problem with the article is when he brought up the civil war. Thing is, it actually was about states rights and not just slavery. If it was about slavery, the emancipation proclamation would have happened before the war. Think about it. If the war was about stopping slavery, wouldn't slavery have been made illegal first and them the war would come after the south refused to comply?

And another who cannot make logic connections.
Lat me 'splain it to you, slowly... the Southern slaveholding states... fought as imagined sovereign territories... for the right... to own and traffic in... slaves. That is what they wanted the right to do, own and sell slaves. There was really nothing else that separated the two halves of the nation so distinctly as this.

Lincoln realized that the Proclamation would be useless unless those states were still part of the united states, so his goal was to make sure they continued to be a part of the whole, then apply the Emancipation Proclamation to the slaves held within. If you'll check, the Proclamation was signed in the third year of the war, january 1, 1863.

Maybe keep reading until you see some of my other responses. I'm not saying it did not involve slavery, but if you think that it was only slavery that it was about, and that the war was to free the slaves, then you don't know history, period. The states in the south did want the freedom to keep their "way of life"or whatever, but its much deeper than slavery vs non slavery. Its well known that the president had many doubts about the emancipation proclamation, and in fact is known to have said that he would have pushed to keep slavery legal if that would have saved the union, but that outcome was not in the cards. Feel free to respond and be as condescending as you wish, but your attitude will not change history or my logic at all.

No, I do not think that slavery was "all" the wa ...


It's the filter. Welcome to fark.
 
2013-05-06 05:48:41 AM  

shortymac: My hubby and I are contemplating doing this, we're very worried about socialization though and other nutters.


Socialisation is simply not an issue unless you make it one. Homeschooled children can still make and play with friends, take part in sports and arts clubs; all they lose is exposure to one highly artificial environment.
 
2013-05-06 05:49:39 AM  

ZeroCorpse: Why can't I "home college" myself?  I figure if I were allowed to do so, I could earn a Master's degree in a couple years.


Plenty of distance learning courses around. Take your pick.
 
2013-05-06 05:53:50 AM  

HairBolus: Would you want your high school age children in public or private school taught by someone who didn't graduate from college? A whole bunch of homeschoolers think that that is a good idea.


The data presented do not support (or refute) that suggestion.

That said, it wouldn't worry me too much, given the wealth of online and printed resources available, as long as the parents were enthusiastic, encouraging and had good appreciation of the learning process.
 
2013-05-06 05:57:29 AM  

itazurakko: Part of the public school experience is about learning how to govern yourself and get along in a group where everyone is on the surface equal, with the same status.  You can learn to choose a leader, to lead, to make alliances and consensus.


Is that how public schools work, then? Perfect democracies where everyone is fully involved, nobody is ostracised ,nobody is bullied, nobody has unearned high status and everything is done by consensus? And, of course, there are no higher authorities laying down rules which all the supposedly equal must follow or be punished?
 
2013-05-06 06:00:46 AM  

itazurakko: All the "talking to adults" stuff doesn't achieve that, because you're just putting the kid in an environment where social rules already determine who is on top and has to defer to whom.


Sorry, hit send too soon ...

If there is any environment on earth where "social rules already determine who is on top and has to defer to whom"it's the standard school environment. Teachers. "Popular" girls. Jocks.
 
2013-05-06 06:04:55 AM  

HairBolus: Some of the problems with homeschoolers is that they are trying to clone themselves and if their kids are stupid in the same way they are then that is good.


You don't think that might be a little bit of a generalisation? Particularly in a thread filled with people saying "I went to school so all children should go to school and become just like me"?
 
2013-05-06 09:15:44 AM  

LesserEvil: Mad Scientist: Popcorn Johnny: Buy they have great teeth.

Beat me to it.

[i169.photobucket.com image 422x532]

Has anybody got a link to the original story behind this meme? It's been driving me nuts for years. The earliest reference I can find on Fark is December 2007.


Link

(Thread is red, so only TFers can read it... Search for "tmim16"...)
 
2013-05-06 10:04:06 AM  

orbister: Is that how public schools work, then? Perfect democracies where everyone is fully involved, nobody is ostracised ,nobody is bullied, nobody has unearned high status and everything is done by consensus? And, of course, there are no higher authorities laying down rules which all the supposedly equal must follow or be punished?


Learning how to deal in massive groups was definitely an explicit part of my education, yes.  It's one of the actual goals. You learn how to function in a group and work politics, make coalitions, and lead.

It's certainly not problem free, but the "oh, my kids are fine, they deal with adults and not other snot-nosed children, which is actually more sophisticated" also misses the mark quite a bit.

You can certainly manufacture other opportunities for your kids to get some of that - sports teams are a good and popular choice. I am complaining about the certain attitude that says that same-age peers interaction is not worth anything so it's actually better off that their kids don't waste their time on it (which you can find all over the place, particularly among the religious who like to cite bible verses about fools, the idea being that the only thing their kid will learn from same-age peers is misbehavior).
 
2013-05-06 10:25:22 AM  
The article was okay but the examples of maladjusted homeschoolers were poor. Those kids sounded like they had emotional issues and/or were on the autism spectrum. I think public school would've been the worst place for them to be. I can only imagine the beatings they'd get both physically and emotionally.

If we can't afford a decent private school, my husband and I will homeschool our kid. Public schools are a meat grinder. All the worry about having socially well adjusted kids is a concern but "well adjusted" is a term used in factories for machine cogs that function correctly. I have higher hopes for my son.

The Prussian School System was designed to create obedient soldiers and factory workers who wouldn't get bored with monotony and would respect and crave authority. America is all out of factory jobs. It's a shiatty system and a big part of the reason why so many Germans embraced Nazism. (Godwinner!)

Our public schools are some of the best in our state (the bar is low) and we're keeping our son out of them to avoid the Jesus freaks (we were the first district to require "Evolution is just a theory" disclaimer stickers on biology textbooks.) Then there are the psychotic jocks, teachers who molest the kids, self imposed racial segregation, kids who are so spoiled that their first car is worth the last 4 of mine put together and general assholes.
 
2013-05-06 10:29:48 AM  
Oh and please tell me that the anti-vaxxers taking their child to India are an imagined couple designed to rile up comments. I have a feeling that if it's true, there will be a Fark thread about a Cholera outbreak about the same time they return home.
 
2013-05-06 10:38:31 AM  

schubie: The article was okay but the examples of maladjusted homeschoolers were poor. Those kids sounded like they had emotional issues and/or were on the autism spectrum. I think public school would've been the worst place for them to be. I can only imagine the beatings they'd get both physically and emotionally.

If we can't afford a decent private school, my husband and I will homeschool our kid. Public schools are a meat grinder. All the worry about having socially well adjusted kids is a concern but "well adjusted" is a term used in factories for machine cogs that function correctly. I have higher hopes for my son.

The Prussian School System was designed to create obedient soldiers and factory workers who wouldn't get bored with monotony and would respect and crave authority. America is all out of factory jobs. It's a shiatty system and a big part of the reason why so many Germans embraced Nazism. (Godwinner!)

Our public schools are some of the best in our state (the bar is low) and we're keeping our son out of them to avoid the Jesus freaks (we were the first district to require "Evolution is just a theory" disclaimer stickers on biology textbooks.) Then there are the psychotic jocks, teachers who molest the kids, self imposed racial segregation, kids who are so spoiled that their first car is worth the last 4 of mine put together and general assholes.


Are you really so naïve as to believe private schools will avoid the "Public schools are a meat grinder" syndrome? My SiL sent her mildly dyslexic child to one in Manhattan...my brother sent his two smaller-than-average identical twin boys to another in NC. Result? "(P)sychotic jocks, teachers who molest the kids, self imposed racial segregation, kids who are so spoiled that their first car is worth the last 4 of mine put together and general assholes" are everywhere. Video at 11.
 
2013-05-06 11:27:53 AM  
I'm not talking about The Jesus Academy For Your Drug Addicted Brats. I'm thinking of a Sudbury or Montessori school. Those are much better models and every time I've visited one, I've seen the creative, curious kids learning at their own pace, all ages cooperating and teaching one another. This is closest to the kind of education Americans used to get that enabled guys like Lincoln, Twain and Edison to be great thinkers despite having half the education of most Farkers.
 
2013-05-06 11:54:53 AM  
Good luck with that. No snark. I hope it works out as well as you hope it does.
 
2013-05-06 01:08:48 PM  

schubie: The article was okay but the examples of maladjusted homeschoolers were poor. Those kids sounded like they had emotional issues and/or were on the autism spectrum. I think public school would've been the worst place for them to be. I can only imagine the beatings they'd get both physically and emotionally.

If we can't afford a decent private school, my husband and I will homeschool our kid. Public schools are a meat grinder. All the worry about having socially well adjusted kids is a concern but "well adjusted" is a term used in factories for machine cogs that function correctly. I have higher hopes for my son.

The Prussian School System was designed to create obedient soldiers and factory workers who wouldn't get bored with monotony and would respect and crave authority. America is all out of factory jobs. It's a shiatty system and a big part of the reason why so many Germans embraced Nazism. (Godwinner!)

Our public schools are some of the best in our state (the bar is low) and we're keeping our son out of them to avoid the Jesus freaks (we were the first district to require "Evolution is just a theory" disclaimer stickers on biology textbooks.) Then there are the psychotic jocks, teachers who molest the kids, self imposed racial segregation, kids who are so spoiled that their first car is worth the last 4 of mine put together and general assholes.


check into some of the 'charter schools', if available... I live in Indiana... there was a big push by the GOP for school vouchers (get kids out of those 'evil' public schools full of those 'union' teachers and into nice Christian private schools... and more importantly get the money from the public schools into the private christian schools)... but one of the results was a very highly regarded charter high school opened up within our public school corporation... I'm not sure if this was the intention when it started, but what it quickly became was more like a gifted and talented academy than a regular public school... the teachers that chose to got there were some of the better ones in several areas... and the students that chose to go there were some of the best from several of the area high schools... they don't have all the distractions of a regular public school (sports teams...) but it is getting some amazing results.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/indiana/districts/ si gnature-school-inc/signature-school-7098

however, if you'll notice their enrollment is rather small and even more telling is the numbers per grade... 115 freshmen... down to about 60 seniors... the kids that can't cut it.. leave and go back to regular public high schools... but it is amazing what a school can be like when all the kids there are kids who really want to learn... none of the 'problem kids' go there... they go to regular public schools and take up about 80% of the teacher's and administrator's time and effort... while the 'good' kids get more or less ignored.
 
2013-05-06 02:23:45 PM  

orbister: HairBolus: Some of the problems with homeschoolers is that they are trying to clone themselves and if their kids are stupid in the same way they are then that is good.

You don't think that might be a little bit of a generalisation? Particularly in a thread filled with people saying "I went to school so all children should go to school and become just like me"?


You appear to be exhibiting the delusional xenophobic thinking of some home schoolers. They don't see any advantage of sending kids where they will be exposed to many points of view, from both the students and teachers. Instead such places are an indoctrination into a uniform evil group-think. These homeschoolers seem afraid to let their kids make their own choices and decisions because maybe they will decide that their parents aren't right about everything.
 
2013-05-06 03:51:06 PM  
I was home schooled and this almost an exact description of my experience. I knew some really weird kids but having well balanced parents and friends outside of the home schooling community kept me pretty balanced.
 
2013-05-06 03:51:14 PM  

HairBolus: orbister: You don't think that might be a little bit of a generalisation? Particularly in a thread filled with people saying "I went to school so all children should go to school and become just like me"?

You appear to be exhibiting the delusional xenophobic thinking of some home schoolers. They don't see any advantage of sending kids where they will be exposed to many points of view, from both the students and teachers. Instead such places are an indoctrination into a uniform evil group-think. These homeschoolers seem afraid to let their kids make their own choices and decisions because maybe they will decide that their parents aren't right about everything.


How kind and perceptive you are. As it happens, I have nothing against school as a concept, although I take issue with quite a lot about how schools are currently implemented. What I found amusing was the accusation that homeschoolers all want little copies of themselves, in a thread where the school-or-nothing faction have generally been saying everyone should have the experiences and learning outcomes at school which they had themselves. Who, in other words, wants the little clones?

And now you come along, telling me that I don't want children to make their own choices and decisions, and demanding instead that they all go to school where they can follow a set curriculum and a set timetable.

Did they do irony where you went to school?
 
2013-05-06 05:26:29 PM  

I'm that jerk: I was home schooled and this almost an exact description of my experience. I knew some really weird kids but having well balanced parents and friends outside of the home schooling community kept me pretty balanced.


Nutty parents produce nutty kids, whether the kids go to school or not. Well-balanced parents produce well-balance kids, whether the kids go to school or not.

There may be a higher chance that nutty parents choose to home educate, but the resulting nuttiness would have happened whatever sort of education the children had.
 
2013-05-06 05:49:49 PM  

orbister: I'm that jerk: I was home schooled and this almost an exact description of my experience. I knew some really weird kids but having well balanced parents and friends outside of the home schooling community kept me pretty balanced.

Nutty parents produce nutty kids, whether the kids go to school or not. Well-balanced parents produce well-balance kids, whether the kids go to school or not.

There may be a higher chance that nutty parents choose to home educate, but the resulting nuttiness would have happened whatever sort of education the children had.


I agree with you, after reading the article the action of some of these parents are probably putting kids into the autism spectrum and giving them some neurosis. The isolation only compounds the horrible parenting.

My parents are neo-cons and I didn't socialize very well as a kid, despite going to public school. I ended up learning social mores around middle school and after getting a job and the internet in high school I was being exposed to various people and I left the neo-con movement.
 
2013-05-06 09:01:57 PM  

HairBolus: orbister: HairBolus: Some of the problems with homeschoolers is that they are trying to clone themselves and if their kids are stupid in the same way they are then that is good.

You don't think that might be a little bit of a generalisation? Particularly in a thread filled with people saying "I went to school so all children should go to school and become just like me"?

You appear to be exhibiting the delusional xenophobic thinking of some home schoolers. They don't see any advantage of sending kids where they will be exposed to many points of view, from both the students and teachers. Instead such places are an indoctrination into a uniform evil group-think. These homeschoolers seem afraid to let their kids make their own choices and decisions because maybe they will decide that their parents aren't right about everything.


a little hypocritical there ain't ya?
 
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