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(Vice)   Turns out, some homeschooled kids are a little weird   (vice.com) divider line 327
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22013 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 May 2013 at 10:54 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-05 01:37:21 PM

picturescrazy: Popcorn Johnny: Buy they have great teeth.

I knew that would pop up.


It will without fail show up in every thread mentioning home schooling until the end days. And as it gets more funny with each posting it will begin approaching a critical mass of mirth. Eventually there will be so much traffic from new people asking about it and being linked back to the original thread that fark will literally fark itself and the internet will divide by zero.
 
2013-05-05 01:39:15 PM
I had never even heard the whole "homeschooling is for fundies" stereotype till I got to college.  Where I grew up there were a few private christian schools and that was where all the ultra-religious types got sent.  My cousins in upstate NY went to parochial school and I once heard my uncle ask my father about christian schools around here.  He said something to the effect that "christian schools in this area are just places where conservatives send their kids because they don't want them going to desegregated schools".  I'm pretty sure he was right.  I think those schools fall into the category of "private schools where affluent conservatives send their kids so they don't have to deal with minorities and secular riffraff" and the aforementioned anti-science type places which cater to a less wealthy but more fundamentalist clientele.

All the homeschooled kids around me were either from hippy families who thought public schools were some type of soul crushing tool of the capitalist system and were into the whol unschooling thing, or other types of people to the left who didn't think the schools were challenging enough.  Most of the second type usually went to the Science and Math high school when they got older though.

I've met a few people who were homeschooled later in life and they were all pretty well adjusted.  It seemed they went that route because they had discipline problems, or had parents who were pretty ambivalent about schooling but had the drive to actually get educated.  Most of these people actually went to public school for some amount of time and had regular groups of friends so they didn't come off weird or anything.
 
2013-05-05 01:39:23 PM
Yep, that's how home-schoolers are. My only problem with the article is when he brought up the civil war. Thing is, it actually was about states rights and not just slavery. If it was about slavery, the emancipation proclamation would have happened before the war. Think about it. If the war was about stopping slavery, wouldn't slavery have been made illegal first and them the war would come after the south refused to comply?
 
2013-05-05 01:40:15 PM

JWideman: Regarding the post up-thread...
This is what clever trolling actually looks like.


I dunno, the government rant's pretty cut and dried, everyone falls on the "you're nuts" side of the spectrum. (Actually, it was too dull to bother to read for me. I have no trouble believing in damaged thinking and there are too many examples to ever both with one of them except perhaps in person.)

The one above totally sounds like things "clever" kids would tell me as to why their parents told them they were special, rather than maladjusted. So it's either true or a good imitation, and seems to have drawn fire from both sides.

But whatever. Usually I find accusations of trolling really tedious, but if that one was constructed, I would find it impressive since it resonated with me.
 
2013-05-05 01:40:23 PM

nekom: I've known a few home schooled kids casually, and without exception they are socially inept.  Smart?  Meh.  About as smart as any other kid.  But socially akward.

I teach my daughter all that she needs to know, she's in Kindergarten but reading at least at a 3rd grade level.  She doesn't go to school to learn, she goes to school to make friends, and learn that while in this household she is the princess, in the rest of the world she's just another kid.  It's important to learn those lessons, and make those friends.


Exactly.
 
2013-05-05 01:41:41 PM

KilaKitu: We've homeschooled our two teens now for around six years for several reasons, none of which are religious.  You likely do have a larger percentage of "interesting" - sometimes odd - kids and families in homeschooling circles because you do have families who think outside the box and don't automatically send their kids to automatron hell...er, school.

We've found homeschooled kids to be surprisingly mature, able to carry on conversations with adults or younger kids, not just their age mates, and I've had some fabulous philosophical discussions with some young teens.  The religious nutjobs get the press because they're weird 'human interest' stories, but be assured, there is a large, and growing, population of homeschoolers who choose this path because we believe it's the best option for our young family members to be productive, creative, happy, and balanced members of our society.


We are thinking of homeschooling our two children. One is starting middle school and the other is finishing elementary. Our oldest had to serve detention for the first time this year, he was reading a book from home in class. He had to serve detention for not following directions (he was told to sit quietly, not read. Our youngest brought home ten worksheets that were completely filled in, he told us they were "shut-up sheets" he worked on when he finished sections of the standardized tests before time expired. They get bored with the pace of learning, it's only a matter of time before the lack of effort school requires transfers to the rest if their lives.
 
2013-05-05 01:45:45 PM

DarthBart: John Dewey: What's with all the homeschooler and homeschooling parents on here?  Isn't it Sunday?  Shouldn't they all be in church or taking the sabbath or something?

Nah, I'm busy trolling the Jesus freaks with athiest posts on Facebook.  They'll see them in a couple of hours when they get home.


Why would you do that?
Much more fun to actually quote what the Bible actually says, instead of what they think it says.
 
2013-05-05 01:48:15 PM
I don't have kids, so I have no dog in this fight. However I recently learned that Texas has a somewhat unique take on homeschooling.

/TL;DR version. While it can't be a sham, you don't have to show that your kids are learning anything either.
 
2013-05-05 01:48:34 PM

But Wait There's More: So are some public-schooled kids, private-schooled kids, parochial-schooled kids, and completely unschooled kids.

But unless someone confirms to me that TFA includes statistics showing homeschooled kids are statistically weirder than non-homeschooled kids, I ain't clicking.


Not a single bit of data in it. It was pure ancedote. And speaking from personal experience, ancedotes  don't cover homeschooling well, because it  does depend on why you're homeschooling your kids. There are entire groups out there of parents who want good education for their kids. Those kids do fine. If you're an Xian lunatic, you won't.

/Former homeschooler
//Was usually much better-educated and better-adjusted than my age group, and it definitely helped my Asperger's--which, given that it was undiagnosed, is a minor miracle
 
2013-05-05 01:56:05 PM

John Dewey: What's with all the homeschooler and homeschooling parents on here?  Isn't it Sunday?  Shouldn't they all be in church or taking the sabbath or something?


Why would I be in church?  I haven't been to church in years.

People homeschool for all sorts of reasons and none of the reasons forbid Internet activity on Sunday.
 
2013-05-05 01:56:57 PM
In families that home-school usually

1) The mother is unemployed and doesn't have anything better to do.
2) The family is cheap and in cases where the local public schools suck don't see why they should send their children to a private school since Mom is just as good as those fancy teachers.

#1 is often caused by "family values" that say a woman's place is in the home.

Cheapness is often self defeating - they won't move to a school district where the public schools don't suck because the taxes are higher, and heaven forbid that Mom get a job so that they can afford those taxes. Meanwhile houses in good districts are better investments than those where schools suck so home schoolers become trapped in declining communities.
 
2013-05-05 01:57:02 PM
cousin & her husband are anti-vax.

kid would have been homeschooled, but husband got a job at a private, hippy dippy school that doesn't require vaccinations, so the kid gets free tuition.

that only gets him to 8th grade though, not sure what they are planning to do about high school.

assuming the kid survives their trip to India next year, of course.
 
2013-05-05 02:00:08 PM

res_nihil: All the homeschooled kids around me were either from hippy families who thought public schools were some type of soul crushing tool of the capitalist system and were into the whol unschooling thing, or other types of people to the left who didn't think the schools were challenging enough. Most of the second type usually went to the Science and Math high school when they got older though.


You lie!  According to Fark, people only homeschool because they're fundies who don't believe in dinosaurs and want to keep their kids away from the filthy gays.
 
2013-05-05 02:02:31 PM

HairBolus: In families that home-school usually

1) The mother is unemployed and doesn't have anything better to do.
2) The family is cheap and in cases where the local public schools suck don't see why they should send their children to a private school since Mom is just as good as those fancy teachers.

#1 is often caused by "family values" that say a woman's place is in the home.

Cheapness is often self defeating - they won't move to a school district where the public schools don't suck because the taxes are higher, and heaven forbid that Mom get a job so that they can afford those taxes. Meanwhile houses in good districts are better investments than those where schools suck so home schoolers become trapped in declining communities.


Citations for any of the "facts" that you're asserting?
 
2013-05-05 02:02:45 PM

Mock26: What is sad/scary about home schooling is that (from what I have read) most home school programs that you can use are faith-based.  That is all great and good if you want to teach creationism and all that, but not good if you want to teach real science.


It doesn't matter. Our school teachers are mostly idiots who don't understand real science, so the kids aren't learning it in school either. If you want to learn math or science, you have to go to college.
 
2013-05-05 02:03:15 PM

JWideman: Regarding the post up-thread...
This is what clever trolling actually looks like.


Trolling? Not my intent. Will it upset people that school's run by the government in the USA do the same sort of things as schools in other countries? Certainly. But people should recognize that.

In "The Impact of Science on Society" Bertrand Russel makes the comment:
For some reason which I have failed to understand, many people like the system when it is Russian but disliked the very same system when it was German. I am compelled to think that this is due to the power of labels; these people like whatever is labeled "Left" without examining whether the label has any justification.

And that is what we have in the USA. We accept a system of schooling for children with the american label when it's origins and modifications were anything but. The american schooling system was dismantled long ago. It is doubtful there is anyone (of typical means) still alive in that was educated in that manner in the USA.  The exception being some very expensive private schools for the children of the wealthy and powerful. Ever see those 'could you pass this 8th grade test from 18XX' things floating around the interwebs? The real ones come from what was the american schooling system. Before the industrialists and politicians got involved.
 
2013-05-05 02:04:15 PM

ongbok: odinsposse: mrlewish: Wait until homeschooling parents go after public school funds. Already did it with charter schools.

Charter schools are about big businesses wanting to get themselves a cut of public education funding like they did with prison funding. Home schoolers don't have the same kind of clout.

Just wait until some corporation decides to start a subsidiary company that makes and sells homeschooling packages.


Or religious organizations. I wouldn't be surprised at all if groups like Focus on the Family or the other huge fundie groups started getting into the homeschool racket.
 
2013-05-05 02:06:14 PM
There is an unbelievable range to homeschoolers.  One I met was a black African girl with wealthy parents whose behavior was close to that of sophisticated nobility.  So academically brilliant and cultured that comparatively graduates from Wellesley and Bryn Mawr would be like scullery maids.

Many American kids who are homeschooled have science and technology oriented parents, and are close to genius level themselves.  For many of them, associating with their "peers" is like visiting with a litter of puppies.  Fun for a while, but ultimately boring.  Fortunately for the rest of us, such kids are usually indifferent to politics, philosophy, religion, and don't have control issues.

One of these kids, destined to work in a laboratory, got a US Army scholarship to get his PhD, after his Master's at Georgia Tech, but confessed that his big fantasy was to go to the US Army Ranger School.

Request denied all the way up the chain to a Lieutenant General.  Why?  "Son, for the amount of money you have already cost the Army, we could buy 20 or more Rangers.  Sorry, nothing for you that could get you so much as a blister.  You're too valuable."

Yeah, the upside of homeschooling.
 
2013-05-05 02:06:47 PM

j0ndas: Homeschoolers probably are a bit "weird", if by weird you mean educated, not caught up in fashion and music, interested in learning things totally not on the core curriculum, etc. My siblings have done just fine in swim team, Civil Air Patrol, tae kwon do, Boy Scouts, etc., and then later in a large variety of campus clubs (several have led said clubs) and in the business world. However, relating to most public-schooled teens is difficult, because most public-schooled teens are shallow and two grades behind homeschoolers of the same age. That's why homeschoolers tend to get along better with adults and less with most children - they have more in common with adults.

By the way, funny fact - that button mentioned in the article "Home's cool... Homeschool!" was probably sold by me personally at one of the conventions we went to back then. I and/or my brother usually manned our booth, and we'd sell about $100 of buttons on the side. Man, the button-making device gave us blisters, though.


I think he meant weird as in socially awkward. Maybe its not the case for you and yours, but it isn't unusual at all. I'm not saying all homeschool students end up social cripples, but of those I've met, is say about seventy percent do.
 
2013-05-05 02:08:04 PM

PiffMan420: ongbok: odinsposse: mrlewish: Wait until homeschooling parents go after public school funds. Already did it with charter schools.

Charter schools are about big businesses wanting to get themselves a cut of public education funding like they did with prison funding. Home schoolers don't have the same kind of clout.

Just wait until some corporation decides to start a subsidiary company that makes and sells homeschooling packages.

Or religious organizations. I wouldn't be surprised at all if groups like Focus on the Family or the other huge fundie groups started getting into the homeschool racket.


Oh, that's already happening.
 
2013-05-05 02:14:59 PM

nekom: I've known a few home schooled kids casually, and without exception they are socially inept.  Smart?  Meh.  About as smart as any other kid.  But socially akward.


That may mean that you simply haven't noticed the ept ones
 
2013-05-05 02:15:11 PM
The professor that chairs the engineering department at my school once told us that home schooled kids almost always wash out before their third semester. They can't handle the work load (which is amazing btw).

/Don't know if this is anectodal or a peer reviewed factoid.
//All 3 of the home schooled kids who enrolled with me in 2011 have already withdrawn...
 
2013-05-05 02:16:46 PM
Not reading this thread, just wondering if homeschooled has shown up ;)
 
2013-05-05 02:19:45 PM

Stone Meadow: This is why the US should have a no-homeschooling law like Germany.


Do you think kids do any better at Christian schools like the one which set that "Science" test?
 
2013-05-05 02:20:06 PM

Too_many_Brians: I was that weird homeschooled kid- Fundie parents, socially isolated in Alaska, socially inept.  My mom pulled my brother out because he had a learning disability and so she yanked me out at the same time. Went for 6th, 7th, and 8th grades- you know those building block years. Sure I learned more, but she didn't teach me and rarely did anything to encourage me. First year out she tried to socialize me but then she got tired of setting those things up and just left me at home for most of the time. Except for church, lots of church.

Took me quite a while to rebuild a foundation for a personality, still not quite right.


I had a similar experience. My parents pulled my brother and I out of public school after I finished the 5th grade. The reasoning was dubious, but my mom had butted heads with the principal several times about sex ed and some other stuff. I was homeschooled for 5 years, starting in the 6th grade -- yes, highly-formative years.

I had friends in elementary school, but a lot of them had moved to avoid the middle school. My mom tried to socialize me. I played soccer in a rec league and was part of a homeschool bowling league that met once a week. There were also some other kids in the neighborhood I would play with, but they were on average several years younger. My point is that I had the capability of making friends if put in the proper environment, but the relative isolation of homeschooling was not that environment.

The level of education was decent, but not spectacular. The history and science textbooks were old (early 60s?), and included gems like "One day man might walk on the moon." The math books were ok, but neither of my parents had taken algebra and if I couldn't grasp a concept from the sentence or two of explanation in the book, I was pretty much screwed until I could figure it out on my own. My mom tried hard to help, but she really couldn't. There were several occasions when she would try to help by giving me sample problems, but would end up frustrating me even more. For example, I would come up with an answer of ".125", but she would tell me I had the wrong answer because the answer book was "1/8". She couldn't explain to me why the answer was wrong (it often wasn't), only that it was wrong. I had never had problems with math before, but I was convinced that I wasn't good at math and extremely frustrated. We ended up deciding that I should take bookkeeping as my math class my last year of homeschooling just to get me through it. It should be noted that this was in the early days of the internet and my parents didn't have it. The internet would have helped a lot.

I convinced my mom that I needed to go to public school for my last couple years of high school in order to prepare me socially for college. I then proceeded to go through a painful few years as I re-acclimated to society. My fashion sense was never great, but I was blind to fashion and stuck out like a sore thumb. I didn't get credit for some of my homeschool classes and I bombed a few placement tests, so I had to resign myself to spending an extra year in high school. I was also filling in the blanks in my high school transcript, so every year I took classes from every grade level (yes, I took a freshman class my senior year). Because of this, I really wasn't with the same group of kids for any significant length of time. I did have friends in high school, but they were mostly older coworkers. To add a twist to the story, I lost my drivers license when I was 18 because of a degenerative eye disease.

By the time I made it to college, I was pretty much up to speed socially. I socialized well and made lots of friends. I joined a fraternity my 3rd year because a lot of my friends were in it.

I now consider myself to be a relatively well-adjusted adult, other than my frequenting Fark.com. I have a beautiful wife, two kids, a nice house, etc, etc. The homeschooling experience wasn't entirely negative. I learned to teach myself, will continue to do so for the rest of my life.

I would never consider homeschooling my kids. Kids need to socialize, and if I feel like they aren't learning enough, I'll teach them when they're at home.
 
2013-05-05 02:21:12 PM
dumbobruni: cousin & her husband are anti-vax... assuming the kid survives their trip to India next year, of course.

No kidding. Yikes.
 
2013-05-05 02:22:18 PM
I had a homeschooled friend way back when I was a young'un.  He was tellingly unspecific about why it was that he was homeschooled, but from what he let slip every now and again I figure that it was because he was no longer welcome in the local public school system.  If you knew him and had seen his personality, you understood why.

/we weren't friends for very long
 
2013-05-05 02:24:49 PM

Qellaqan: Mainly a time thing. It would be great if there was a half time option for school.


It's called flexischooling in the UK. Some state (in US terms, public) schools allow it, but mainly you have to find a friendly private school to go that way.
 
2013-05-05 02:26:22 PM

Mock26: What is sad/scary about home schooling is that (from what I have read) most home school programs that you can use are faith-based.  That is all great and good if you want to teach creationism and all that, but not good if you want to teach real science.


The problem with homeschooling is that real science and real math and real history and real whatever else is very hard. If you're not constantly teaching and personally relearning these things, you're no better off teaching the subject than the blind is at leading the blind. If you're not a trained scientist, teaching science to your kid is a waste of both your time. The very worse school teacher has far more experience in teaching that subject than the typical homeschool parent/teacher.

If you are a trained scientist, then homeschool teaching that particular branch of science might be a good idea. That's really no different that most parents getting their kid into the same vocation they're in. Like Tom Hanks getting Colin Hanks into film entertainment, or Ron Paul getting Rand Paul into politics (or GHWB get GWB into the same thing, or the Kennedys...). It's similar in science as well. Emil Artin was a famous mathematician. His son, Michael Artin is also a famous mathematician.

But then, you're only good at that one subject. So you're a great mathematician and you homeschool your kids to do algebraic homology or what have you. How good are you in US history? Biology? Music? Fine Arts? Throwing a baseball?

There's a reason to outsource our teaching to people who have specific skills and knowledge to teach those subjects. If there are any questions on public education, it would be the policies at the top-most level on determining what subjects to include and what to exclude, due to limited budgets.
 
2013-05-05 02:26:56 PM

Ronin_S: So any idea what proportion of homeschoolers are the fundies who don't want their kids being exposed to the filthy science, gays and non-believers and which ones are doctors/researchers/whatever who simply want to provide more advanced material for their kids to tackle?


In the UK I think the loonies are 10 - 20% and the actual educators are the rest.
 
2013-05-05 02:29:23 PM

orbister: Stone Meadow: This is why the US should have a no-homeschooling law like Germany.

Do you think kids do any better at Christian schools like the one which set that "Science" test?


In their socialization skills? Certainly.
 
2013-05-05 02:29:55 PM
HairBolus:

#1 is often caused by "family values" that say a woman's place is in the home.


yeah take my job why don't you.  YOUR WHATS WRONG WITH AMERICA
 
2013-05-05 02:33:48 PM

Blink: Wait ... are you arguing that getting along with age-group peers is an unfavorable condition?


Unless you go to school, "getting along in a group of people whose birthdays are within a year of yours" isn't a particularly useful skill compared to "getting along with people of all ages when you meet them". Do cliques, jocks-vs-geeks, "popular" girls and so on indicate good social skills?

If you homeschool to stop your children meeting anyone outside the family, then yes, you are likely to end up with rather strange results. However, if you homeschool because you want to give your child a good education, you'll also be aware of the need for social skills and you'll encourage their development.
 
2013-05-05 02:34:00 PM

odinsposse: Qellaqan: It's purely theoretical at this point, but I'm intrigued by the idea of home schooling my kids. All school taught me was how to look busy and make up fun things (an admittedly useful skill), but damn elementary school was light on learning. All I learned socially was how to be so weird that I was no longer appealing to pick on.

There's no reason you can't educate your kids and send them to public school. I was always ahead of my class in elementary school so I often read books my parents gave me during classes. There are plenty of resources out there for parents who want to do things on their own that are both educational and fun for kids.

Now look at me. I'm posting on Fark and doing a pretty good job of getting over my hangover.

/and other stuff
//but nobody believes internet bragging


This! It's exactly what my parents did, and I pushed it at school, too, asking teachers for more and different books, for exampl. I was reading many grade levels above my class all through school (though I needed remedial math), and both my parents and all the teachers I had encouraged me. I was reading Homer in third grade and my dad's college anthropology books in 4th. There wasn't some kind of bright-line cut-off between home and school for me. I was also taken on more "field trips" by my parents on the weekends than I went on in school. Museums, mostly, here and in Europe, though there were a lot of visits to cathedrals in Europe since my mom loved them. With my own kid, we always augmented whatever she was learning in school with talks, books, movies, and museums whenever we could.

You don't *have* to let your kid sit in front of the TV watching cartoons or playing video games just because you can't homeschool because of work and you can't afford private schools.
 
2013-05-05 02:34:23 PM

mephox: I thought it was a good article. Scary what some of those parents were teaching their kids, but looking forward, it's obvious they won't be able to cope with the real world, even as politicians. And that's sayin' something. That one kid who wanted to beat up other kids and kill stuff in the woods... Future serial killer.


The blog was written about the author's experience in the mid-90s. It could very well be  current serial killernow. I wonder if his parents are still alive or have they been murdered in a grisly way.
 
2013-05-05 02:37:09 PM

JohnnyFootball: KilaKitu: We've homeschooled our two teens now for around six years for several reasons, none of which are religious.  You likely do have a larger percentage of "interesting" - sometimes odd - kids and families in homeschooling circles because you do have families who think outside the box and don't automatically send their kids to automatron hell...er, school.

We've found homeschooled kids to be surprisingly mature, able to carry on conversations with adults or younger kids, not just their age mates, and I've had some fabulous philosophical discussions with some young teens.  The religious nutjobs get the press because they're weird 'human interest' stories, but be assured, there is a large, and growing, population of homeschoolers who choose this path because we believe it's the best option for our young family members to be productive, creative, happy, and balanced members of our society.

We are thinking of homeschooling our two children. One is starting middle school and the other is finishing elementary. Our oldest had to serve detention for the first time this year, he was reading a book from home in class. He had to serve detention for not following directions (he was told to sit quietly, not read. Our youngest brought home ten worksheets that were completely filled in, he told us they were "shut-up sheets" he worked on when he finished sections of the standardized tests before time expired. They get bored with the pace of learning, it's only a matter of time before the lack of effort school requires transfers to the rest if their lives.


I'm a special ed teaching assistant. I work with special ed kids in the mainstream classroom, so they're given the same assignments as the 'mainstream' kids (though with slightly different expectations and/or extended deadlines). It's appalling the assignments that are given out to high school freshmen at my school. Many of the assignments are shut-up assignments and are things I would expect out of a younger student (Draw a picture representing imperialism vs. write a paragraph analyzing the pros & cons of imperialism). A study conducted recently showed that our high school seniors' lexile scores were far behind what a college freshman's lexile score should be.

I'm currently twelve weeks pregnant and am strongly considering home-schooling my child. My boyfriend and I are both intelligent and both involved with our community. We also live close enough to a large city that we'd be able to take our kid on field trips to assorted art and science museums. We don't feel threatened by viewpoints that differ from our own. What I do feel threatened by is the idea of my kid being utterly bored in school and 'acting out' (much like your kid being disciplined for reading instead of sitting quietly).
 
2013-05-05 02:37:17 PM

mephox: I thought it was a good article. Scary what some of those parents were teaching their kids, but looking forward, it's obvious they won't be able to cope with the real world, even as politicians. And that's sayin' something. That one kid who wanted to beat up other kids and kill stuff in the woods... Future serial killer.


I don't think you get exactly how horrifying that kid was.

It wasn't so much that he wanted to go into the woods and kill things, or that he wanted to beat kids up.

It was that he had so little idea of social interaction that he based it entirely off of made-for-kids TV, where there is always some dilemma like that. It's like he couldn't realize that in real life people just hang out.

/That's what I got out of that section.
 
2013-05-05 02:37:17 PM
It's got very little to do with the quality or content of the curriculum that makes homeschooling an issue. As the author says, it's the lack of socialization these kids are getting. They get zero social skills, no exposure to challenging situations...but since they have an acceptable education, they are considered able to go out into society as regular people (as opposed to neglected or abandoned kids).

So when they enter the business world or higher education with no ability to deal with other people as humans, it may not be entitlement or narcissism, they may simply never have met another person before
 
2013-05-05 02:37:34 PM

orbister: Qellaqan: Mainly a time thing. It would be great if there was a half time option for school.

It's called flexischooling in the UK. Some state (in US terms, public) schools allow it, but mainly you have to find a friendly private school to go that way.


Cool, I'd never heard of it before in the US besides half-day kindergarten. I wish it would be more prevalent but with so many more dual income houses it seems like it will become less common.
 
2013-05-05 02:38:11 PM

nekom: I've known a few home schooled kids casually, and without exception they are socially inept.  Smart?  Meh.  About as smart as any other kid.  But socially akward.

I teach my daughter all that she needs to know, she's in Kindergarten but reading at least at a 3rd grade level.  She doesn't go to school to learn, she goes to school to make friends, and learn that while in this household she is the princess, in the rest of the world she's just another kid.  It's important to learn those lessons, and make those friends.


This. My kids are both working above grade level because of the things we do at home, but school is important to learn how to get along with others.

Great site for kids to work on math:

www.aleks.com
 
2013-05-05 02:38:25 PM

FunkOut: This just in : some homeschooled kids are clever children with clever parents teachers teaching them better than in the public system, many others are poorly socialised and receive a warped limited education that has little connection to reality.

 
2013-05-05 02:40:54 PM
check out their parents. my bible freak family cheapskate Nephew married a home schooled girl. i have nothing but pity for her. her Dad is a fundie, owns a Chik-Fil-A and treats his children like mindless slave bees. i fear Daughter appealed to nephew because Dad put money in the deal. Daughter who was not allowed to attend college by Dad wound up married at 19. Nephew act like a human, let her do the college thing? Hells no, his Mom & Dad & Granpa paid his way through. She's pregnant with their second child. Her parents are at their house all the farking time. What a slice of hell.
 
2013-05-05 02:42:11 PM

jso2897: Stone Meadow: This is why the US should have a no-homeschooling law like Germany.

I would not choose homeschooling for my own children, but neither would I choose Germany as my model for civil liberty.


Contemporary Germany is nothing like Germany in the late 1930s to mid 1940s. Get over it. Germany is now far more liberal on civil positions than the most liberal of all liberal states in the US. For example, they teach sex education to 8 - 10 year olds with giant models of vulvae and penises, showing how the penis is inserted and all. They have no speed limits on the autobahn (but, obtaining a driver's license is not a brief trip to the DMV for a written test; it really requires a lot of driver's training with real practicing of situational driving conditions). They have decriminalized -- and now, maybe have legalized -- prostitution.
 
2013-05-05 02:43:46 PM

Mad Scientist: Popcorn Johnny: Buy they have great teeth.

Beat me to it.

[i169.photobucket.com image 422x532]


Came for this.  Leaving satisfied.
 
2013-05-05 02:45:43 PM

silvervial: odinsposse: Qellaqan: It's purely theoretical at this point, but I'm intrigued by the idea of home schooling my kids. All school taught me was how to look busy and make up fun things (an admittedly useful skill), but damn elementary school was light on learning. All I learned socially was how to be so weird that I was no longer appealing to pick on.

There's no reason you can't educate your kids and send them to public school. I was always ahead of my class in elementary school so I often read books my parents gave me during classes. There are plenty of resources out there for parents who want to do things on their own that are both educational and fun for kids.

Now look at me. I'm posting on Fark and doing a pretty good job of getting over my hangover.

/and other stuff
//but nobody believes internet bragging

This! It's exactly what my parents did, and I pushed it at school, too, asking teachers for more and different books, for exampl. I was reading many grade levels above my class all through school (though I needed remedial math), and both my parents and all the teachers I had encouraged me. I was reading Homer in third grade and my dad's college anthropology books in 4th. There wasn't some kind of bright-line cut-off between home and school for me. I was also taken on more "field trips" by my parents on the weekends than I went on in school. Museums, mostly, here and in Europe, though there were a lot of visits to cathedrals in Europe since my mom loved them. With my own kid, we always augmented whatever she was learning in school with talks, books, movies, and museums whenever we could.

You don't *have* to let your kid sit in front of the TV watching cartoons or playing video games just because you can't homeschool because of work and you can't afford private schools.


I was something like this, too, so I'm not attacking it, but school takes up a lot of time in a kid's life. Especially in k-6, you learn pretty damn little. I paid attention a little to learn the material, but then I did my own thing and made it look like work. I wonder how much more I could have learned in that period if I wasn't stuck at other's paces.

I went through a phase in middle school where I did zero homework, because i understood the material fine already. Straight D's, and my parents took away TV, radio, internet, you name it. Boy was that a stimulus for the imagination (I told kids a lot of creative stories about being an alien), but what could I have done with even more time? Is that so terrible? Maybe you would have done more too, it doesn't mean you haven't done well to wonder.

\Read "Born Free" in 3rd grade.
\\Didn't entirely get it, but read it because kitties!
 
2013-05-05 02:45:56 PM

Mellotiger: Indeed, that is why I felt compelled to learn the actual history as pertains to my area instead of just going with my sixth grade history course. I'm not saying the confederacy was a good thing, I do not support slavery, but I also do not support flawed history. If the civil war was solely about ending slavery, the emancipation proclamation would have happened BEFORE the war, because you don't go to war with your own nation for not complying with something that hasn't happened yet. Simple, really.


I don't know what they teach in Mississippi but in Alabama they taught 'States Rights' during elementary school but by jr. high, the lessons changed over to slavery being the cause. As for why the South left before the emancipation proclamation, simple really: 1) they could see the writing on the wall as Lincoln was known to be hostile to the idea of slavery even if he hadn't said he was going to end it and 2) since there weren't going to be any more slave states allowed to join the Union, the South was going to lose it's ability to keep slavery legal. They could see it would be just a matter of time before the rest of the country outlawed the basis of the southern economy. They weren't going to wait for that to happen first.

/Do you also around your friends call it the War of Northern Aggression?
 
2013-05-05 02:46:03 PM

Qellaqan: But seriously, people who say they get along with adults better than peers *aren't* more socially adjusted. They're less socially adjusted. Maligning your peers doesn't diminish the fact that even if they're so simple, you still can't get along with them.


Have you ever seen parents of toddlers trying to get them to play with each other? It rarely works, and that's because to a toddler, other toddlers aren't nearly as interesting as older people. Similarly, while its useful for a 14 year old to be able to get on with other 14 year olds, it's not nearly as useful as being able to get on with adults, because you spend one year of your life at school with a need to get on with 14 year olds and sixty years of your life needing to get on with adults.

Socialization is really about getting along with everyone, or at least faking it.

I agree completely.
 
2013-05-05 02:48:30 PM

KrispyKritter: check out their parents. my bible freak family cheapskate Nephew married a home schooled girl. i have nothing but pity for her. her Dad is a fundie, owns a Chik-Fil-A and treats his children like mindless slave bees. i fear Daughter appealed to nephew because Dad put money in the deal. Daughter who was not allowed to attend college by Dad wound up married at 19. Nephew act like a human, let her do the college thing? Hells no, his Mom & Dad & Granpa paid his way through. She's pregnant with their second child. Her parents are at their house all the farking time. What a slice of hell.


With writing skills like those, I don't think I would be talking shiat about home-schoolers if I were you. Jesus Christ, that broke my brain.
 
2013-05-05 02:49:17 PM

nekom: I teach my daughter all that she needs to know, she's in Kindergarten but reading at least at a 3rd grade level.  She doesn't go to school to learn, she goes to school to make friends, and learn that while in this household she is the princess, in the rest of the world she's just another kid.  It's important to learn those lessons, and make those friends.


Did she have no friends before she went to school? Did she take no part in group activities outside her immediate family before she went to school?
 
2013-05-05 02:49:56 PM

odinsposse: The Civil War was about preserving the Union. However the South undeniably left because they felt their right to own slaves was in danger.


If it was about preserving the Union, the North could have capitulated to the South on the issue of slavery and avoided the war altogether.  They didn't.
 
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