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(Washington Post)   Israel strikes Syrian targets. This is not a repeat from yesterday   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 374
    More: Followup, Syrians, Damascus, Reuters News, sectarian violence, Sunni Muslims, Syrian War  
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6930 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 May 2013 at 10:28 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-05 11:35:44 AM  
Oh, and by the way the IAI Harpy does not in fact contain US technology.

I thought I wrote that earlier but turns out I didn't.
 
2013-05-05 11:41:22 AM  

Tatsuma: the IAI Harpy does not in fact contain US technology.


Thats the Israeli version.  America strongly argues against that.

Israel is hardly hermetically sealed from America regarding drone weapons tech.  It is literally impossible for an Israeli drone to be manufactured 100% free of US tech and assistance.
 
2013-05-05 11:42:27 AM  

people: . It is literally impossible for an Israeli drone to be manufactured 100% free of US tech and assistance.


This is complete bullshiat.

And you still have yet to debunk a single item from my list earlier.
 
2013-05-05 11:51:15 AM  

Tatsuma: yet to debunk a single item


Are you high?  You just flipped from
saying, grudgingly, after pages and pages of sources

"modified tech"

from bleating that  "Israel never did that [sold US military secrets and weapons to China), those rumors were debunked."

Just getting you to understand the patently obvious to anyone who isnt a mouth-breathing fundamentalist settler took longer than an hour and sources in the double didgits.
 
2013-05-05 11:52:17 AM  

people: didgits.


Yeah. theres another D in there.  Its like Upgrayedd and how he needs two "d's"
 
2013-05-05 11:53:40 AM  
Way to cut the citation in half and pretend it's about something else.

About on par with the course, considering how... fluid truth is with you.
 
2013-05-05 11:57:30 AM  

Tatsuma: fluid truth is with you.


I'm literally laughing and clapping.  This might be the most hilarious thing I've read.

A guy maintaining that his selectively cited lie by omission list 'o' crap wasn't called out for what was selectively chosen.

Bravo! Its better than performance art.
 
2013-05-05 12:00:35 PM  
Is Tats in here being a warmonger again? Dammit.
 
2013-05-05 12:00:55 PM  
Once again truncating my posts and not citing what is not convenient enough for you. Waste of my time.
 
2013-05-05 12:01:04 PM  
Have the last word. You've earned today.  I'm still giggling.
 
2013-05-05 12:02:32 PM  

MustTryHarder: Just like acting in the name of God removes consequences, because God will forgive anything done to his benefit, no matter how many people get lied to and killed, amirite?


Or ideology, yes. Fortunately Israel is one of the most agnostic nations in the world today, because its survival depends on it.

/which makes it all the sadder that so many people want to believe they're as much a nation of religious nuts as all the Arab nations surrounding them
//want to believe it so hard, they'll rewrite history for the sake of their ideology
 
2013-05-05 12:05:22 PM  

Tatterdemalian: Fortunately Israel is one of the most agnostic nations in the world today, because its survival depends on it.


I...what? Do you have a citation on that? Israel is 75% Jewish, 17% Muslim, 2% Christian and 3.7% "Other" from what I can see.
 
2013-05-05 12:05:34 PM  

Tatterdemalian: Or ideology, yes. Fortunately Israel is one of the most agnostic nations in the world today, because its survival depends on it.


What? That's nonsense.
 
2013-05-05 12:07:09 PM  
Additionally, they view non-Jewish migration as a demographic threat to the "Jewish state" as laid out in the Koenig Memorandum
 
2013-05-05 12:08:22 PM  

Tatsuma: Tatterdemalian: Or ideology, yes. Fortunately Israel is one of the most agnostic nations in the world today, because its survival depends on it.

What? That's nonsense.


On this, you and I agree. However, we disagree on what their survival actually depends on.
 
2013-05-05 12:21:35 PM  
I think you guys are missing a major, important point.

Tatsuama has been rolling the entire weekend.   He's supposed to take off the Sabath.  He's not allowed to roll on the Sabbath, so what's the deal?

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-05-05 12:22:14 PM  

Tatsuma: There's a huge difference between Israel selling its own weapons and technology to China versus unauthorized sales of US weapons, technology and secrets. I certainly don't deny that the former happens, but the former is also legal and permitted by the US, even though they weren't happy about it from time to time.


How clever are those arms sales to Iran looking now?
 
2013-05-05 12:26:27 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: I think you guys are missing a major, important point.

Tatsuama has been rolling the entire weekend.   He's supposed to take off the Sabath.  He's not allowed to roll on the Sabbath, so what's the deal?

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 640x480]


For some reason God considers sunset Friday-sunset Saturday to be the sabbath.
 
2013-05-05 12:48:56 PM  

Tommy Moo: Fark Me To Tears: Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.

I think you've got that backwards, sport. Israel is doing this on our behalf.

What do we care which insane dictator is in charge of Syria? They don't have ICBMs or nukes.


Oil, allies, humanitarian interests, and perhaps other interests. Then again, I have you farkied as a liar and a moron and you usually continue to provide justification for such labels.
 
2013-05-05 12:51:45 PM  

orbister: Tatsuma: There's a huge difference between Israel selling its own weapons and technology to China versus unauthorized sales of US weapons, technology and secrets. I certainly don't deny that the former happens, but the former is also legal and permitted by the US, even though they weren't happy about it from time to time.

How clever are those arms sales to Iran looking now?


Positively Reaganesque.
 
2013-05-05 12:52:21 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: For some reason God considers sunset Friday-sunset Saturday to be the sabbath.


But look at his posts.  He's been rolling in the Israel / mideast threads all day yesterday and Friday night.
 
2013-05-05 12:54:03 PM  

vygramul: Positively Reaganneoconesque

 
2013-05-05 12:59:54 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: cameroncrazy1984: For some reason God considers sunset Friday-sunset Saturday to be the sabbath.

But look at his posts.  He's been rolling in the Israel / mideast threads all day yesterday and Friday night.


He must be using a machine designed to outsmart an omnipotent deity and his rules. Seriously, Orthodox Jews believe they can outwit the Almighty to get around the Sabbath rules.
 
2013-05-05 01:06:49 PM  

Tatsuma: MorrisBird: My daughter was brutally raped her first day in Tel Aviv. Really, <b>Tatsuma</b>, it's a barbaric region.

Yes because it's not like there's a rape happening every two minutes in America. Nope.

Very sorry about your daughter, but that post was just farking stupid.


And probably a lie. It's not likely that they're telling the truth, it's too absurd. If they were telling the truth then they'd be far more likely to have had cause to think about it at greater length and would have likely come to a more reasoned conclusion. "Someone was raped! Those Jews are barbaric!"

No racism here. Nope...

It's an absurd way to go about with attempting to justify their racism though. The story and the conclusion seem highly likely to be concocted just to express their bigotry. It's almost laughable in that they expect that story to be believed.

Simply put, if that had happened it would have been heart breaking and would have likely caused those affected to give some serious time to thinking about the subject. If they'd thought of it at any length they'd have likely used some logic though I suppose that initially they may have just gone with raw emotions and knee jerk responses. If they'd used logic, which would most likely come, they'd have realized that those sorts of things happen in every single country on the planet and that Israel has a lower crime rate than they probably have in their home country. If they'd used logic they'd have realized that rapists aren't limited to any certain geographic region or race. If they'd used logic they'd have come to a different conclusion.

So, it's more likely that the story is untrue. It is more likely that they made the story up just so they can express their racist views (that Jews are barbaric though nicely couched in just stating that it is a barbaric region as if a veil that thin is good enough) and it is odd that they'd expect us to believe their story. I guess people think that a rape claim is so important or delicate that the story can't be questioned and so it is an excuse to make stories up and then make racist claims based on them.
 
2013-05-05 01:19:53 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Satanic_Hamster: cameroncrazy1984: For some reason God considers sunset Friday-sunset Saturday to be the sabbath.

But look at his posts.  He's been rolling in the Israel / mideast threads all day yesterday and Friday night.

He must be using a machine designed to outsmart an omnipotent deity and his rules. Seriously, Orthodox Jews believe they can outwit the Almighty to get around the Sabbath rules.


I don't think making fun of a religion nor making fun of someone's adherence to it in a thread in which religion isn't the discussion nor held out as a moral superiority claim is appropriate. I understand why people might find Tatsuma to be irritating in his strident support of Israel, but please don't let that guide your discourse.

/I know, I know, Welcome to fark
 
2013-05-05 01:23:57 PM  

Tatsuma: What happened with the USS Liberty has been clearly established: A tragical error in the midst of a war on all fronts for Israel.

Sometimes, bad things happen in the fog of war, and Israel had no intentions to strike an American vessel, much less sink it. The only people who hold this today should be regarded as those who say that the Boston Bombings and the Sandy Hook massacres were faked by the federal government and crisis actors pretended to be the dead/injured.


While I concur that it was an accident, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable for the layman to look at it and be incredulous. It doesn't take the 9/11 Truther level of contortions to conclude it was intentional. More like the FoxNews-Benghazi-level of contortions.
 
2013-05-05 01:27:44 PM  

vygramul: While I concur that it was an accident, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable for the layman to look at it and be incredulous. It doesn't take the 9/11 Truther level of contortions to conclude it was intentional. More like the FoxNews-Benghazi-level of contortions.


Meh, maybe in the early 70s but nowadays there are so many proofs out there, and so many investigations that proved it was accidental, that they are really like the 'Free Jahar!' crowd.
 
2013-05-05 01:27:54 PM  

vygramul: I don't think making fun of a religion nor making fun of someone's adherence to it in a thread in which religion isn't the discussion nor held out as a moral superiority claim is appropriate. I understand why people might find Tatsuma to be irritating in his strident support of Israel, but please don't let that guide your discourse.


But it always comes down to that, as his justification for everything.  A man so dedicated to Israel having a simultaneous war against all their neighbors as well as countries on the other side of their neighbors but too cowardly to join the IDF himself.  See, he's a *true* Jew, not like all the fake, lesser Jews that are acceptable cannon fodder for fighting the Muslims.

You know, I've always wondered how people like this reconcile ancient Israel having a military or fighting the Romans and what not.  if it was ok for the Biblical Jews, the ones that are used for the justification of all their actions, why not now?
 
2013-05-05 01:30:33 PM  

Ghastly: a country that claims to worship capitalism above all else


I live here and I've yet to hear of anyone actually making that claim. I hear a lot of people claiming that that's what America claims and what it stands for but I know of no tenets of our system of government that enforces or even suggest that idea.

In fact, our constitution declares that we won't have a free market.

What America claims to worship is democracy. That is a lie however. Perhaps if you want to find fault then you could find fault with that - it is honest, accurate, and actually serves some purpose.

But... If you're going to find problem with the country then feel free but let's try to keep it limited to reality. Dishonesty, propaganda, and ignorance have no place in a well reasoned debate.

The idea that the United States is founded on, has the principles of, or even has a history of free market trade is absurd and those who make such claims do themselves a disservice. The idea is so greatly different from the truth that it was important enough to make the founding fathers enumerate the regulatory powers into the constitution. The Commerce Clause (Article I, Section 8, Clause 3) quite specifically disproves any such notions and we have been this way since the creation of our nation.

I am not sure what would motivate you to make such a statement? Perhaps you heard it from a friend? Perhaps you've been listening to pundits? Perhaps you have decided you wanted to make an unsubstantiated point that didn't have logic or truth behind it and opted to repeat an oft-quoted lie to make it appear to be true? Perhaps you just didn't know?

It isn't that America doesn't have faults, she has plenty. It is that for a debate to actually happen, for any changes to be made (and we do need to make changes), we need to start with honesty. The idea that America is founded on, believes, or even pretends to believe in a free market is absurd and it is so patently dishonest that it seriously detracts from the character of the person who makes such claims.

I hold you to a higher standard and have you farkied as such. So, seriously... Why would you post such a thing? Why would you believe such a thing? Do you dare ask yourself what other opinions you hold that are based on faulty data and, if so, will you adjust your beliefs accordingly?

You don't have to answer, perhaps it is better if you do not.
 
2013-05-05 01:31:35 PM  
Ok Israel!  I am warning you!   This shiat had better not effect my hummus supply!  So, in conclusion; Would you like to buy more bombs?

/we have plenty...
 
2013-05-05 01:39:42 PM  

Parmenius: Adolf Oliver Nipples: My mother-in-law naively wants to take my son to visit Israel this summer. Over my dead body. The Middle East may be engulfed in flames by this summer the way things are going right now with Syria and Iran. I didn't take all those trips to the sandbox over the last decade so that my son could be put in harm's way by his grandmother.

They're probably safer touring Israel than they are touring NYC. Israel is not "the sandbox".


for real....   Hey, if you don't want your kid to go, can I have his seat on the plane?  I have always wanted to visit...
 
2013-05-05 01:39:53 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: But look at his posts.  He's been rolling in the Israel / mideast threads all day yesterday and Friday night


Perhaps he pays a gentile to post for him on the Sabbath?
 
2013-05-05 01:40:08 PM  
Meh... Perhaps I should have been more clear. Oh well. No, we're not capitalists. While we do have some tenets of capitalism, the economic system of capitalism is quite specifically limited. Capitalist wouldn't have done stuff like bail out the automobile industry, as an example. We still have private ownership of production but only as is allowed through the graces of the Commerce Clause.

Sorry about that - I should have been more clear. I'd meant to type more of that out in detail but somehow missed it. I'd rather be clear about it from the start and wish I'd included that. Please accept my apologies.
 
2013-05-05 01:43:05 PM  

picturescrazy: Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.

Syria can barely keep its government intact in the middle of a civil war despite having a lot more firepower. Do you really think in the middle of that Israel would need our help?


Syria may declare war, but I doubt they will seriously attack Israel.  Right now Israel is just hitting a few targets of opportunity.  If Syria starts actively attacking Israel then the Assad regime faces annihilation quickly.  So, It's is in their best interest to put up with the "limited" attacks from Israel rather than force them to open the entire can of whoop-ass...
 
2013-05-05 01:45:20 PM  

Maul555: Syria may declare war, but I doubt they will seriously attack Israel. Right now Israel is just hitting a few targets of opportunity. If Syria starts actively attacking Israel then the Assad regime faces annihilation quickly. So, It's is in their best interest to put up with the "limited" attacks from Israel rather than force them to open the entire can of whoop-ass...


Yeah if Assad seriously declares war against Israel he's going to be dead within hours and his military completely decimated within a week at most.
 
2013-05-05 01:46:28 PM  
I mean, we literally warned Assad 'The next time you try to kickstart shiat with us, we're coming to kill you personally'

There's a reason why the IDF, before striking last week, went over his palace in Damascus and boomed over it a few times.
 
2013-05-05 01:56:15 PM  

orbister: Perhaps he pays a gentile to post for him on the Sabbath?


HAH.

That's actually plausible.
 
2013-05-05 02:11:46 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: vygramul: I don't think making fun of a religion nor making fun of someone's adherence to it in a thread in which religion isn't the discussion nor held out as a moral superiority claim is appropriate. I understand why people might find Tatsuma to be irritating in his strident support of Israel, but please don't let that guide your discourse.

But it always comes down to that, as his justification for everything.  A man so dedicated to Israel having a simultaneous war against all their neighbors as well as countries on the other side of their neighbors but too cowardly to join the IDF himself.  See, he's a *true* Jew, not like all the fake, lesser Jews that are acceptable cannon fodder for fighting the Muslims.

You know, I've always wondered how people like this reconcile ancient Israel having a military or fighting the Romans and what not.  if it was ok for the Biblical Jews, the ones that are used for the justification of all their actions, why not now?


The same is true of Christianity and Buddhism. Mass killing in the guise of war totally violates the fundamental precepts of those religions. This isn't especially true of Judaism. I'm not overly-fond of religion in general, and I'm not trying to defend any of the assertions surrounding it. But he hasn't made that assertion in this thread yet. Consider the possibility that, at some point, you convince him to abandon that line of argument. What could this do but force him to feel the need to defend himself again? Let him make the assertion first. THEN attack it.
 
2013-05-05 02:16:00 PM  

UnspokenVoice: Meh... Perhaps I should have been more clear. Oh well. No, we're not capitalists. While we do have some tenets of capitalism, the economic system of capitalism is quite specifically limited. Capitalist wouldn't have done stuff like bail out the automobile industry, as an example. We still have private ownership of production but only as is allowed through the graces of the Commerce Clause.

Sorry about that - I should have been more clear. I'd meant to type more of that out in detail but somehow missed it. I'd rather be clear about it from the start and wish I'd included that. Please accept my apologies.


Please. That's like saying that any government powerful enough to stop private forces from interfering with capitalism is therefore powerful enough to interfere with capitalism itself, meaning capitalism only exists by sufferance and can never actually exist.

We're one of the most capitalist countries ever to exist or ever will exist.
 
2013-05-05 02:19:11 PM  

vygramul: The same is true of Christianity and Buddhism. Mass killing in the guise of war totally violates the fundamental precepts of those religions. This isn't especially true of Judaism. I'm not overly-fond of religion in general, and I'm not trying to defend any of the assertions surrounding it. But he hasn't made that assertion in this thread yet. Consider the possibility that, at some point, you convince him to abandon that line of argument. What could this do but force him to feel the need to defend himself again? Let him make the assertion first. THEN attack it.


And what's the point?  It's like "discussing" things with Bevets.  Easier to just cut to the chase.
 
2013-05-05 02:21:14 PM  

UnspokenVoice: The Commerce Clause (Article I, Section 8, Clause 3) quite specifically disproves any such notions and we have been this way since the creation of our nation.


Only in post-Civil War thinking. You have to think the way they thought of the states - as largely autonomous. If anything, the clause was a libertarian wet dream, as free markets require free movement of commodities across borders and the commerce clause basically told the states they couldn't fark with movement of commodities across their borders to another state.

The commerce clause was not originally intended to grant the federal government the sweeping powers it ended up bestowing.
 
2013-05-05 02:27:53 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: vygramul: The same is true of Christianity and Buddhism. Mass killing in the guise of war totally violates the fundamental precepts of those religions. This isn't especially true of Judaism. I'm not overly-fond of religion in general, and I'm not trying to defend any of the assertions surrounding it. But he hasn't made that assertion in this thread yet. Consider the possibility that, at some point, you convince him to abandon that line of argument. What could this do but force him to feel the need to defend himself again? Let him make the assertion first. THEN attack it.

And what's the point?  It's like "discussing" things with Bevets.  Easier to just cut to the chase.


The high road.
 
2013-05-05 02:31:03 PM  

vygramul: The high road.


On Fark?

That's adorable.

Some of us get tired of having the same thread over and over.  Easier to just cut to the chase every now and then.
 
2013-05-05 03:07:02 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: vygramul: The high road.

On Fark?

That's adorable.

Some of us get tired of having the same thread over and over.  Easier to just cut to the chase every now and then.


Hey - I did say "I know, I know. Welcome to Fark."
 
2013-05-05 03:26:59 PM  

vygramul: Hey - I did say "I know, I know. Welcome to Fark."


I get what you're saying and generally agree; when dealing w/ random strangers.  But when you're dealing with the same troll years on end and have seen this process repeat itself dozens of times?  It's like treating Skinnyhead or GaryPDX like they were real human beings.
 
2013-05-05 03:37:24 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: vygramul: Hey - I did say "I know, I know. Welcome to Fark."

I get what you're saying and generally agree; when dealing w/ random strangers.  But when you're dealing with the same troll years on end and have seen this process repeat itself dozens of times?  It's like treating Skinnyhead or GaryPDX like they were real human beings.


Woahwoahwoah... let's not go crazy.
 
2013-05-05 03:42:59 PM  

vygramul: Woahwoahwoah... let's not go crazy.


He's the one who repeated in two different threads multiple times that I was posting on Shabbat (I wasn't) and seems to basically just argue at me, argue about me, or insult me, adding nothing to this thread, while he knows I have him on ignore.

Yet I'm the troll that it's worthless debating with (which is exactly what he tries doing every thread I'm in, based on the constant green arrows I see next to his name)
 
2013-05-05 03:59:54 PM  

Tatsuma: et I'm the troll that it's worthless debating with


You put everyone who doesn't agree with you on ignore. Of course you're useless to debate with.
 
2013-05-05 04:46:49 PM  

jso2897: Primitive Biblical bignoses are killing each other. Again.

[i18.photobucket.com image 400x493]


Iamokwiththis.jpg
 
2013-05-05 05:52:55 PM  

UnspokenVoice: Ghastly: a country that claims to worship capitalism above all else

I live here and I've yet to hear of anyone actually making that claim.


Really? You've never heard of Calvin Coolidge?
 
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