Tatsuma: Parmenius: I'm probably going to hell for defending Tatsuma, but... you *could* refute some of it. Vague assertions and appeals to hatred of Israel don't help your position.No see if you say 'Everything Tats says about X is false' it magically becomes fact.
Parmenius: Passive-aggressing me won't help your position either. Care to back up any of your claims on the cash value of intelligence?
Tatsuma: Here is General Keegan saying that Israel is worth 'five CIAs
ciberido: Normally, I'd point out that these are bald assertions without any links or references to back them up. But in this case perhaps we should merely be grateful that he isn't wasting more of our time by coming up with links someone would have to follow, read, and then debunk
people: General: Israelis exaggerated Iraq threat
Ghastly: If the US actually practiced what it preached there'd be very few people pissed with them and Wahabism wouldn't have taken hold in the Muslim world to begin with.
gilgigamesh: So now we have hit that inevitable part of the thread where it stops being about the issue and becomes about Tatsuma. Time to bail.
people: Lets run it through google. Knowing Tatsuma, its been all debunked, and he comes right back later with more lies
Tatsuma: Yeah one retired guy
Tatsuma: about Israel in the 80s were wrong
mayIFark: So, let me get this straight, Hamas shoots rockets at random targets in Israel - Terrorism (Agreed).Israel shoots even more powerful stuff at random targets all over the middle east - Not Terrorism (What the fark?)
Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.
people: Wait? Are you looking for more sources? Thats about the easiest thing to accomplish.
Ontos: Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.Like America has done.... umm... ever?
Tatsuma: one person
people: Israeli pressure against US arms sales, like the blocked f-15 sales.
people: The selling of US military secrets and weapons to China.
people: 1973 is the clearest example of US direct involvement. The US shipped over tens of thousands of tons of material in in that and engaged in some very hairy and aggressive diplomacy.
people: Ontos: Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.Like America has done.... umm... ever?1973 is the clearest example of US direct involvement. The US shipped over tens of thousands of tons of material in in that and engaged in some very hairy and aggressive diplomacy.
Tatsuma: gilgigamesh: So now we have hit that inevitable part of the thread where it stops being about the issue and becomes about Tatsuma. Time to bail..... do you ever have anything of value to contribute to these threads, outside of coming in, sniping at me with a snide remark, then walking away?
Tatsuma: The selling of US military secrets and weapons to China.Israel never did that, those rumors were debunked.
Tatsuma: Please provide a link that Israel is the only country to benefit of such an arrangement.
Tatsuma: Again, link for proof, and how did that cost anything extra to America when that reserve exists specifically to be used?It costs in money, and it costs in diplomatic problems.Tatsuma: So basically I gave an example of concrete events and things that Israel did for America post propaganda on fark
Tatsuma: Again, link for proof, and how did that cost anything extra to America when that reserve exists specifically to be used?
Tatsuma: So basically I gave an example of concrete events and things that Israel did for America post propaganda on fark
Ontos: Diplomacy and material support is still a far cry from "fight their war for them".Words mean things.
gilgigamesh: Seriously though, I think you are thinking of someone else. We've had discussions before about all sorts of things. You have a great taste in music.
gilgigamesh: It is also true that these threads always become about you. Or more specifically, about Israel in the abstract, with you on one side and a bunch of people yelling at you on the other. That isn't entirely your fault, because there are frankly a lot of antisemitic dickbags on Fark who dump on you because you are a Jew who defends Israel. But take a look at this thread. It turned from the topic to a discussion about Israel's treatment of African immigrants, the attack on the USS Liberty 40 years ago, foreign aid to Israel, and pretty much everything but the topic. Again, not entirely your fault. But it happens a lot when you are in these Israel threads.Just some food for thought.
Tatsuma: I read too fast and reacted like an ass, so let me apologize for the third time.
people: The United States has imposed sanctions on Israel after a dispute over Israel's sale of drones - unmanned aerial vehicles - to China, according to news reports.The US has suspended co-operation on several development projects and frozen delivery of night-vision equipment. 2005
people: Israel has sold advanced military technology to China for more than a decade and is moving to expand its cooperation with Beijing, says R. James Woolsey, the Director of Central Intelligence. 1993
people: U.S. Suspends Cooperation With Israel on Fighter JetIre at Jerusalem's Arms Deals With China 2005
people: In addition, the military funding for Israel is handled differently than it is for other countries. Israel's $3 billion is put almost immediately into an interest-bearing account with the Federal Reserve Bank. The interest, collected by Israel on its military aid balance, is used to pay down debt from earlier Israeli non-guaranteed loans from the United States.Another unique aspect of the assistance package is that about 25 percent of it can be used to buy arms from Israeli companies. No other country has that privilege, according to a September 2010 CRS report. 2011
gilgigamesh: No need to apologize at all. As I noted, these threads tend to turn into a barfight. If I walk into one, I'm not going to biatch if someone hits me over the head with a chair by mistake.
Tatsuma: And later it was revealed that Israel had in fact acted according the the guidelines set forth by the US and did nothing wrong.
people: US 'anger' at Israel weapons sale 2004
people: U.S. Arms Sales to Israel End Up In China, Iraq
Tatsuma: that's the best you got?
people: By David Isenberg
Tatsuma: Does Israel sell US weapons and secrets to China against US wishes and the answer is no.
people: Arms apology
people: Israel openly apologized for it.
Tatsuma: The IAI Harpy is an Israeli-made drone
Tatsuma: Israeli weapons
Tatsuma: Israel does sell its own weapons made wuth US technology and US weapons to China
people: The problem was, as stated, the Harpy contains US tech. Frankly, how the flip can you have indigenous tech in Israel with so much draw from the US.Modified
Tatsuma: Modified US tech,
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