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(Washington Post)   Israel strikes Syrian targets. This is not a repeat from yesterday   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 374
    More: Followup, Syrians, Damascus, Reuters News, sectarian violence, Sunni Muslims, Syrian War  
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6923 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 May 2013 at 10:28 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-04 09:22:39 PM
 
2013-05-04 09:26:12 PM
Yeah those were farking huge explosions
 
2013-05-04 10:21:21 PM

UNC_Samurai: They apparently hit an ammo dump.  The missile warheads all went up at once.


That was pretty impressive.
 
2013-05-04 10:34:37 PM
Justified or not, I bet the Muslim countries that surround it are super happy fine with Israel's new aggression.

Talk about your playing with matches in a sea of gasoline ...
 
2013-05-04 10:35:27 PM
Farking Sovereignty, how does it work?
 
2013-05-04 10:35:48 PM

UNC_Samurai: They apparently hit an ammo dump.  The missile warheads all went up at once.




/Seriously, cant they stop throwing out ackbars? It's getting a bit dated.
 
2013-05-04 10:36:04 PM

mayIFark: Farking Sovereignty, how does it work?


Not all that well around Israel.
 
2013-05-04 10:36:49 PM
i know i'm supposed to support israel as a mormon chrisitian whatever and what not but seriously i wish israel would just put the guns down and move to some remote part of canada.
 
2013-05-04 10:36:50 PM
I really wouldn't give a shiat what Israel did - nor would the rest of the civilized world - if the U.S. would just stay the fark out of it.
 
2013-05-04 10:36:59 PM

UNC_Samurai: They apparently hit an ammo dump.  The missile warheads all went up at once.


Jesus! They must have been "researching" some serious weapons in there.
 
2013-05-04 10:37:00 PM

UNC_Samurai: They apparently hit an ammo dump.  The missile warheads all went up at once.


shiat if I were that close I would have thought it was a nuke. I mean I know any sufficiently large explosion will mushroom like that but it's pretty easy to be calm and rational watching a YouTube video on my phone vs being within eyesight of an actual war.
 
2013-05-04 10:37:47 PM

UNC_Samurai: They apparently hit an ammo dump.  The missile warheads all went up at once.


holy farking shiat.
 
2013-05-04 10:38:00 PM
give it back to Palestine.
 
2013-05-04 10:38:03 PM
So, let me get this straight, Hamas shoots rockets at random targets in Israel - Terrorism (Agreed).
Israel shoots even more powerful stuff at random targets all over the middle east - Not Terrorism (What the fark?)
 
2013-05-04 10:38:18 PM

nmemkha: Justified or not, I bet the Muslim countries that surround it are super happy fine with Israel's new aggression.

Talk about your playing with matches in a sea of gasoline ...


THIS. If this blows up in their face, I will feel no farking sympathy.
 
2013-05-04 10:38:39 PM

nmemkha: Justified or not, I bet the Muslim countries that surround it are super happy fine with Israel's new aggression.

Talk about your playing with matches in a sea of gasoline ...


Actually yeah, most of them are thrilled. You have to realize that while a lot of them might just give a lot of shiat to Israel publicly, if you read stuff like WikiLeaks and all the diplomatic cables released, most Arab governments are more than happy in regards to what Israel does to Hizbullah, Iran, Hamas, etc...
 
2013-05-04 10:38:57 PM
There is no good outcome from this. Either a despot remains in power and will be undoubtedly more cruel than before or the most ruthless Islamic extremists group takes control. I would not want to live in a bordering country.
 
2013-05-04 10:39:39 PM

mayIFark: (What the fark?)


you know you can put these words in bold?  What the fark?
 
2013-05-04 10:39:42 PM
i.imgur.com Meet i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-04 10:39:45 PM

mayIFark: So, let me get this straight, Hamas shoots rockets at random targets in Israel - Terrorism (Agreed).
Israel shoots even more powerful stuff at random targets all over the middle east - Not Terrorism (What the fark?)


The difference between terrorism and defensive military operations is organization.
 
2013-05-04 10:41:18 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: UNC_Samurai: They apparently hit an ammo dump.  The missile warheads all went up at once.

/Seriously, cant they stop throwing out ackbars? It's getting a bit dated.


It's a common idiom. Used in this context it would be like some guy watching a big explosion and going "oh my god".
 
2013-05-04 10:41:30 PM

utah dude: i know i'm supposed to support israel as a mormon chrisitian whatever and what not but seriously i wish israel would just put the guns down and move to some remote part of canada.


Isn't Utah supposed to be famous as a place religious folks go to settle? Why not welcome them there?
 
2013-05-04 10:42:01 PM
Yeah Israel should totally let their enemies surrounding them completely annihilate them, as is their stated goal.
 
2013-05-04 10:42:55 PM

utah dude: i know i'm supposed to support israel as a mormon chrisitian whatever and what not but seriously i wish israel would just put the guns down and move to some remote part of canada.


They did. It's called Thornhill.
 
2013-05-04 10:43:02 PM

paulseta: Jesus! They must have been "researching" some serious weapons in there.


Fateh-110 missiles (Iranian) destined to Hizbullah, possibly chemical and biological weapons as well.
 
2013-05-04 10:43:05 PM

Tatsuma: nmemkha: Justified or not, I bet the Muslim countries that surround it are super happy fine with Israel's new aggression.

Talk about your playing with matches in a sea of gasoline ...

Actually yeah, most of them are thrilled. You have to realize that while a lot of them might just give a lot of shiat to Israel publicly, if you read stuff like WikiLeaks and all the diplomatic cables released, most Arab governments are more than happy in regards to what Israel does to Hizbullah, Iran, Hamas, etc...


Maybe so, but if they ever actually support that position publicly their populaces will tear them to pieces.
 
2013-05-04 10:43:50 PM

STRYPERSWINE: Yeah Israel should totally let their enemies surrounding them completely annihilate them, as is their stated goal.


Obama came out and said Israel was completely justified to do what it did, and had every right to keep on doing so. So the only people complaining about this are basically the far-Left fringe.
 
2013-05-04 10:45:07 PM

nmemkha: Maybe so, but if they ever actually support that position publicly their populaces will tear them to pieces.


Not really, behind closed doors there are a lot of Sunnis who are happy to see Israel placating Shia influence in the region.
 
2013-05-04 10:45:41 PM

UNC_Samurai: They apparently hit an ammo dump.  The missile warheads all went up at once.


Allahu Akbar!  [Golly!]
 
2013-05-04 10:45:44 PM

UNC_Samurai: They apparently hit an ammo dump.  The missile warheads all went up at once.


Hm, those voices sound identical to the ones I've heard in previous Syrian videos. I guess it's the same people, or they're lazy and re-using audio.

The travel speed difference between light and sound is always so fascinating. No matter how many times I experience it, like with lightning and thunder, I always stop to think about it.
 
2013-05-04 10:46:18 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: utah dude: i know i'm supposed to support israel as a mormon chrisitian whatever and what not but seriously i wish israel would just put the guns down and move to some remote part of canada.

Isn't Utah supposed to be famous as a place religious folks go to settle? Why not welcome them there?


that would be fine. but please include the IDF girls, too. and their sweet M16A2 / M4's, too.
 
2013-05-04 10:46:51 PM

mayIFark: So, let me get this straight, Hamas shoots rockets at random targets in Israel - Terrorism (Agreed).
Israel shoots even more powerful stuff at random targets all over the middle east - Not Terrorism (What the fark?)


that wasn't a "random target." It wasn't a school or a pizzeria; it was a missile factory.  Meant to be fired at them.  There is a big difference.
 
2013-05-04 10:47:11 PM
I guess you can say they were...

[sunglasses]

Syrial strikes
 
2013-05-04 10:47:21 PM

Tatsuma: STRYPERSWINE: Yeah Israel should totally let their enemies surrounding them completely annihilate them, as is their stated goal.

Obama came out and said Israel was completely justified to do what it did, and had every right to keep on doing so. So the only people complaining about this are basically the far-Left fringe.


As long as the US stays out of it if/when the shiat really hits the fan, I'm fine with it.
 
2013-05-04 10:47:54 PM

DubtodaIll: The difference between terrorism and defensive military operations is organization.


also the not-at-all-randomness of the target

those missiles would have been shot at Israelis or at the Syrian resistance, so good on 'em
 
2013-05-04 10:48:23 PM

BravadoGT: mayIFark: So, let me get this straight, Hamas shoots rockets at random targets in Israel - Terrorism (Agreed).
Israel shoots even more powerful stuff at random targets all over the middle east - Not Terrorism (What the fark?)

that wasn't a "random target." It wasn't a school or a pizzeria; it was a missile factory.  Meant to be fired at them.  There is a big difference.


So, according to you, if Hamas fires on a Israeli arms depot, that is fine?
 
2013-05-04 10:48:24 PM
Good, blow the fark out of anybody even thinking about threatening you. That's how you do it.
 
2013-05-04 10:48:27 PM
i1309.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-04 10:48:33 PM

Tatsuma: STRYPERSWINE: Yeah Israel should totally let their enemies surrounding them completely annihilate them, as is their stated goal.

Obama came out and said Israel was completely justified to do what it did, and had every right to keep on doing so. So the only people complaining about this are basically the far-Left fringe.


I don't have anything to add but this has to be a pretty big deal if both Tatsuma and STRYPERSWINE are in the thread, and so early. Maybe I haven't been paying attention but those are two names I haven't seen in years.
 
2013-05-04 10:49:06 PM

UNC_Samurai: They apparently hit an ammo dump.  The missile warheads all went up at once.


Ammo dump, great ammo prices are gonna go up even more. Farking horders.
 
2013-05-04 10:49:25 PM
My mother-in-law naively wants to take my son to visit Israel this summer. Over my dead body. The Middle East may be engulfed in flames by this summer the way things are going right now with Syria and Iran. I didn't take all those trips to the sandbox over the last decade so that my son could be put in harm's way by his grandmother.
 
2013-05-04 10:49:47 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Good, blow the fark out of anybody even thinking about threatening you. That's how you do it.


ok, i just added you to my target list. sit tight the ballistic missiles are on their way.
 
2013-05-04 10:49:54 PM
FTFA: The attack Friday coincided with mounting pressure on the Obama administration to formulate a response to the growing risk of weapons proliferation in the Syrian war.

Oh I think we have that already, as of just a few days ago: "The Obama administration plans to announce an arms package to Israel,Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates worth as much as $10 billion -- the centerpiece of Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel's visit to the countries next week, according to U.S. officials."
 
2013-05-04 10:50:29 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: My mother-in-law naively wants to take my son to visit Israel this summer. Over my dead body. The Middle East may be engulfed in flames by this summer the way things are going right now with Syria and Iran. I didn't take all those trips to the sandbox over the last decade so that my son could be put in harm's way by his grandmother.


It's ok God will protect them.
 
2013-05-04 10:50:41 PM
Aw fark. Y'all don't even want to see Twitter right now.
 
2013-05-04 10:50:52 PM

mayIFark: BravadoGT: mayIFark: So, let me get this straight, Hamas shoots rockets at random targets in Israel - Terrorism (Agreed).
Israel shoots even more powerful stuff at random targets all over the middle east - Not Terrorism (What the fark?)

that wasn't a "random target." It wasn't a school or a pizzeria; it was a missile factory.  Meant to be fired at them.  There is a big difference.

So, according to you, if Hamas fires on a Israeli arms depot, that is fine?


it'd be better.  But they never do that.  They want lots of civilian blood.  Dead babies.  That's their focus for choosing targets.
 
2013-05-04 10:51:37 PM

utah dude: Popcorn Johnny: Good, blow the fark out of anybody even thinking about threatening you. That's how you do it.

ok, i just added you to my target list. sit tight the ballistic missiles are on their way.


Bring it, I picked up some anti-missile missiles on Craigslist.
 
2013-05-04 10:51:39 PM
You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.
 
2013-05-04 10:52:41 PM

Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.


Historically they've done quite well on their own, so I wouldn't worry too much about that.
 
2013-05-04 10:52:44 PM
Say what you will, at least the Israelis are doing something.
While I would rather have peace, trying to head off attacks instead of waiting for something to happen, seems to me to be better than hand wringing, harsh letters from the U.N. or doing nothing at all.
I don't really agree with Israel's policies or, for that matter, the U.S.'s policies Re: Israel, but I can't fault Israel for protecting their borders/citizens.
 
2013-05-04 10:53:03 PM
It's nice to see a competent nation stepping up and policing things.
 
2013-05-04 10:54:04 PM

picturescrazy: I don't have anything to add but this has to be a pretty big deal if both Tatsuma and STRYPERSWINE are in the thread, and so early. Maybe I haven't been paying attention but those are two names I haven't seen in years.


Well there are rumblings that Assad is about to declare war on Israel. Which is just hilarious.

BravadoGT: it'd be better. But they never do that. They want lots of civilian blood. Dead babies. That's their focus for choosing targets.


If only they would target IDF installations instead of purposefully target school buses and kindergarten.

Adolf Oliver Nipples: My mother-in-law naively wants to take my son to visit Israel this summer. Over my dead body. The Middle East may be engulfed in flames by this summer the way things are going right now with Syria and Iran. I didn't take all those trips to the sandbox over the last decade so that my son could be put in harm's way by his grandmother.


Oh please, I live there and there is no danger.
 
2013-05-04 10:54:10 PM

Popcorn Johnny: utah dude: Popcorn Johnny: Good, blow the fark out of anybody even thinking about threatening you. That's how you do it.

ok, i just added you to my target list. sit tight the ballistic missiles are on their way.

Bring it, I picked up some anti-missile missiles on Craigslist.


serious? all i ever get on there is gay sex in Idaho.
 
2013-05-04 10:54:13 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: My mother-in-law naively wants to take my son to visit Israel this summer. Over my dead body. The Middle East may be engulfed in flames by this summer the way things are going right now with Syria and Iran. I didn't take all those trips to the sandbox over the last decade so that my son could be put in harm's way by his grandmother.


They're probably safer touring Israel than they are touring NYC. Israel is not "the sandbox".
 
2013-05-04 10:54:14 PM

Lsherm: UNC_Samurai: They apparently hit an ammo dump.  The missile warheads all went up at once.

That was pretty impressive.



warporn  see how attractive it is
and better yet
 recomended by your superiors
 
2013-05-04 10:54:49 PM

BravadoGT: mayIFark: BravadoGT: mayIFark: So, let me get this straight, Hamas shoots rockets at random targets in Israel - Terrorism (Agreed).
Israel shoots even more powerful stuff at random targets all over the middle east - Not Terrorism (What the fark?)

that wasn't a "random target." It wasn't a school or a pizzeria; it was a missile factory.  Meant to be fired at them.  There is a big difference.

So, according to you, if Hamas fires on a Israeli arms depot, that is fine?

it'd be better.  But they never do that.  They want lots of civilian blood.  Dead babies.  That's their focus for choosing targets.


Yet, more civilians are killed each year (100x or so) by Isrealis than by Hamas. Funny how that works.

And Israel never hit Hospital before, or was there arms too (well, some amputees do have arms left, or just one arm left).
 
2013-05-04 10:55:39 PM

Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.


Because the US has such a long history of invading Israel's neighbor's for them?
 
2013-05-04 10:55:45 PM

Parmenius: They're probably safer touring Israel than they are touring NYC. Israel is not "the sandbox".


Yeah exactly, the criminality in Israel is extremely low, and we have developed such an army and anti-terrorism measures that at the end of the day, walking the streets of New York is a lot more dangerous than visiting Israel and walking in Jerusalem at 3 in the morning.
 
2013-05-04 10:56:32 PM

mayIFark: Farking Sovereignty, how does it work?


Being able to defend yourself, otherwise it don't mean shiat. Then it's just whoever has the bombs.
 
2013-05-04 10:56:48 PM

BravadoGT: it'd be better.  But they never do that.  They want lots of civilian blood.  Dead babies.  That's their focus for choosing targets.


All the macho military assholes on all sides there love dead civilian babies. They spray their jockey shorts on it. When it happens to themselves they feel "justified" and when it happens to the other side its "richly deserved."
 
2013-05-04 10:57:41 PM
BravadoGT:
it'd be better.  But they never do that.  They [Hamas] want lots of civilian blood.  Dead babies.  That's their focus for choosing targets.

They're able to aim missiles now?
 
2013-05-04 10:58:22 PM

Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.


Syria can barely keep its government intact in the middle of a civil war despite having a lot more firepower. Do you really think in the middle of that Israel would need our help?
 
2013-05-04 10:58:24 PM

Greydog: Say what you will, at least the Israelis are doing something.


Rarely in recent years could Bibi's government be accused of not "doing something."
 
2013-05-04 10:58:49 PM
What does Syria have to gain by giving missiles to Hezbollah?
 
2013-05-04 10:58:49 PM

Somacandra: All the macho military assholes on all sides there love dead civilian babies. They spray their jockey shorts on it. When it happens to themselves they feel "justified" and when it happens to the other side its "richly deserved."


This is bullshiat, you don't ever see Israelis dancing in the street and distributing sweets where there are news that children have been killed.

That's a farking disgusting assertion.
 
2013-05-04 10:58:56 PM

ravenlore: Aw fark. Y'all don't even want to see Twitter right now.


One dog sees a squirrel and suddenly the whole neighborhood's barking.
 
2013-05-04 10:59:11 PM

UNC_Samurai: They apparently hit an ammo dump.  The missile warheads all went up at once.


different angle, same explosion
 
2013-05-04 10:59:41 PM

Somacandra: BravadoGT: it'd be better.  But they never do that.  They want lots of civilian blood.  Dead babies.  That's their focus for choosing targets.

All the macho military assholes on all sides there love dead civilian babies. They spray their jockey shorts on it. When it happens to themselves they feel "justified" and when it happens to the other side its "richly deserved."


uh...yeah.  wow.  That's a big drink of crazy right there....
 
2013-05-04 11:00:01 PM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: What does Syria have to gain by giving missiles to Hezbollah?


getting them into the hands of someone loyal to them instead of having them fall into rebel hands
 
2013-05-04 11:00:24 PM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: What does Syria have to gain by giving missiles to Hezbollah?


... you do realize that they've been doing that for nearly 30 years, right?
 
2013-05-04 11:00:32 PM

mayIFark: BravadoGT: mayIFark: BravadoGT: mayIFark: So, let me get this straight, Hamas shoots rockets at random targets in Israel - Terrorism (Agreed).
Israel shoots even more powerful stuff at random targets all over the middle east - Not Terrorism (What the fark?)

that wasn't a "random target." It wasn't a school or a pizzeria; it was a missile factory.  Meant to be fired at them.  There is a big difference.

So, according to you, if Hamas fires on a Israeli arms depot, that is fine?

it'd be better.  But they never do that.  They want lots of civilian blood.  Dead babies.  That's their focus for choosing targets.

Yet, more civilians are killed each year (100x or so) by Isrealis than by Hamas. Funny how that works.

And Israel never hit Hospital before, or was there arms too (well, some amputees do have arms left, or just one arm left).


Israel is a sovereign nation with trained soldiers, Hamas is a terrorist organization.  Israel doesn't station military facilities right next to, or inside of, schools and hospitals, Hamas does.  Without an internationally recognized military force Hamas terrorists are by default civilians.
 
2013-05-04 11:00:35 PM

Tatsuma: Parmenius: They're probably safer touring Israel than they are touring NYC. Israel is not "the sandbox".

Yeah exactly, the criminality in Israel is extremely low, and we have developed such an army and anti-terrorism measures that at the end of the day, walking the streets of New York is a lot more dangerous than visiting Israel and walking in Jerusalem at 3 in the morning.


Unless you're a woman not being escorted by a family member, I guess.
 
2013-05-04 11:00:51 PM
leevis:  Because the US has such a long history of invading Israel's neighbor's for them?

And Iran's to boot. By invading Afghanistan and Iraq, George W. Bush removed the main military threats to the Iranian regime on either geographical side. President Bush is the best friend the Iranians have had since his father sold them weapons in the late 1980's to illegally fund Nicaraguan rebels.
 
2013-05-04 11:01:05 PM

BravadoGT: uh...yeah. wow. That's a big drink of crazy right there....


This is from a guy who said that Judaism was invented after Xianity and claims to teach religion in University. Just ignore it.
 
2013-05-04 11:01:16 PM

PsiChick: nmemkha: Justified or not, I bet the Muslim countries that surround it are super happy fine with Israel's new aggression.

Talk about your playing with matches in a sea of gasoline ...

THIS. If this blows up in their face, I will feel no farking sympathy.


And yet, if it does blow up, we'll all have to pay the price of our going to war to help Israel, because you know damn well the idiotic right will demand we save Israel from their own mess, as usual.

Luckily, everyone ELSE, including leaders in the ME, knows it too, so I don't really see this going anywhere.
 
2013-05-04 11:01:40 PM

Tatsuma: Oh please, I live there and there is no danger.


I suppose our danger threshold is very different. There's no danger for me, but for my son? Oh hell no. I cringe when he crosses the street.

Parmenius: They're probably safer touring Israel than they are touring NYC. Israel is not "the sandbox".


You may very well be right about that. But there's not a country going through a violent civil war on the border of New York City, nor is New York City surrounded by countries that have vowed to wipe it off the map. Additionally, NYC doesn't feel the need to lob a few missiles at Jersey City.

Perspective, guys. I am a typical overprotective parent who doesn't trust his mother-in-law, especially since she's wheelchair-bound with MS. When things start blowing up due to military actions I don't want him within 200 miles of it.
 
2013-05-04 11:01:43 PM

Somacandra: BravadoGT: it'd be better.  But they never do that.  They want lots of civilian blood.  Dead babies.  That's their focus for choosing targets.

All the macho military assholes on all sides there love dead civilian babies. They spray their jockey shorts on it. When it happens to themselves they feel "justified" and when it happens to the other side its "richly deserved."


Wow...I never took you for such a dumbass.
 
2013-05-04 11:01:44 PM

Tatsuma: That's a farking disgusting assertion.


calm down, tat. not everyone has as big a dose of Jesus/Spirit to ride on as you do. just pray for them.
 
2013-05-04 11:01:49 PM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Unless you're a woman not being escorted by a family member, I guess.


Yeah, again complete bullshiat that has nothing to do with reality.
 
2013-05-04 11:02:02 PM

Tatsuma: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: What does Syria have to gain by giving missiles to Hezbollah?

... you do realize that they've been doing that for nearly 30 years, right?


So then why isn't Hezbollah using them instead of rockets?
 
2013-05-04 11:02:37 PM

Stone Meadow: Wow...I never took you for such a dumbass.


nah ur just being trolled. soma is actually cool.
 
2013-05-04 11:03:00 PM

Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.


I think you've got that backwards, sport. Israel is doing this on our behalf.
 
2013-05-04 11:03:18 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: I suppose our danger threshold is very different. There's no danger for me, but for my son? Oh hell no. I cringe when he crosses the street.


I can understand, but yeah I'm just saying: Israel is safer for your son than even crossing the street. Just come and visit with him! Seriously, I'll even meet up with you, we'll drink a few beers and I'll show you around

utah dude: calm down, tat. not everyone has as big a dose of Jesus/Spirit to ride on as you do. just pray for them.


Being evangelical and all, I sure ride high
 
2013-05-04 11:03:31 PM
narwhaler.com
 
2013-05-04 11:03:38 PM
Obama: "if Syria uses chemical weapons, we're going to fark their shiat up"

Breaking news: Syria has used chemical weapons.

Obama: "look at that duck"
 
2013-05-04 11:04:22 PM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: So then why isn't Hezbollah using them instead of rockets?


Well a lot of them were destroyed by the IDF in the early hours of the conflict, because we keep track of that shiat.
 
2013-05-04 11:04:24 PM

Tatsuma: Obama came out and said Israel was completely justified to do what it did, and had every right to keep on doing so. So the only people complaining about this are basically the far-Left fringe.


I thought you weren't supposed to troll on the Sabbath.

mayIFark: So, let me get this straight, Hamas shoots rockets at random targets in Israel - Terrorism (Agreed).
Israel shoots even more powerful stuff at random targets all over the middle east - Not Terrorism (What the fark?)


Say what you will about Israel escalating the situation, they don't exactly hit random targets.

mayIFark: So, according to you, if Hamas fires on a Israeli arms depot, that is fine?


Honestly, to me?  Yes, it would.  Because those are legitimate military targets.  I'd tolerate / understand Hamas/PLO/Hezbollah a LOT more if they did that.  If they restricted their attacks to military and industrial/infrastructure, it would change their attacks at least from one of terrorism to one of guerrilla / irregular war fare.
 
2013-05-04 11:05:32 PM
Jesus only dropped the f-bomb when he was cleaning out the temple.
 
2013-05-04 11:06:30 PM

TuteTibiImperes: mayIFark: BravadoGT: mayIFark: BravadoGT: mayIFark: So, let me get this straight, Hamas shoots rockets at random targets in Israel - Terrorism (Agreed).
Israel shoots even more powerful stuff at random targets all over the middle east - Not Terrorism (What the fark?)

that wasn't a "random target." It wasn't a school or a pizzeria; it was a missile factory.  Meant to be fired at them.  There is a big difference.

So, according to you, if Hamas fires on a Israeli arms depot, that is fine?

it'd be better.  But they never do that.  They want lots of civilian blood.  Dead babies.  That's their focus for choosing targets.

Yet, more civilians are killed each year (100x or so) by Isrealis than by Hamas. Funny how that works.

And Israel never hit Hospital before, or was there arms too (well, some amputees do have arms left, or just one arm left).

Israel is a sovereign nation with trained soldiers, Hamas is a terrorist organization.  Israel doesn't station military facilities right next to, or inside of, schools and hospitals, Hamas does.  Without an internationally recognized military force Hamas terrorists are by default civilians.


Same action, as you just said yourself, yet different label. That was my original question.
 
2013-05-04 11:06:33 PM
Elegy

mayIFark: Farking Sovereignty, how does it work?

Not all that well around Israel.

Hey Mel, haven't heard from you in awhile. When's your next film coming out?
 
2013-05-04 11:07:10 PM

Tatsuma: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: So then why isn't Hezbollah using them instead of rockets?

Well a lot of them were destroyed by the IDF in the early hours of the conflict, because we keep track of that shiat.


But you said they've been doing it for thirty years, so ostensibly there's a cache somewhere in Palestine. Or is it just like whack a mole, missiles come in, missiles get blowed up?
 
2013-05-04 11:07:22 PM

Triumph: ravenlore: Aw fark. Y'all don't even want to see Twitter right now.

One dog sees a squirrel and suddenly the whole neighborhood's barking.


Apt comparison, that.
 
2013-05-04 11:07:50 PM

utah dude: Jesus only dropped the f-bomb when he was cleaning out the temple.


If he'd been the actual son of G-d (not that there is such a thing literally, ch"vs), he might have remembered that, oh you know, G-d himself ordered what was happening in the Temple.
 
2013-05-04 11:07:56 PM
Israel is simply preempting some movement of weapons into Lebanon by destroying them before they can be distributed.  By hitting them in an ammo dump, they are minimizing civilian casualties by confining the explosion to military personel and combatants.  Otherwise, they have to attack the targets on the road where innocent civilians could be put at risk.  Better to do one big attack and remove the materials all at once than stage lots of little attacks as they move through the countryside and put civilians at risk.
 
2013-05-04 11:08:29 PM

Tatsuma: Yeah those were farking huge explosions


Israel said "We were actually aiming for the Iranian nuke factory, but our bomb fell just a little short. Our bad."
 
2013-05-04 11:08:41 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: /Seriously, cant they stop throwing out ackbars? It's getting a bit dated.


That was the equivalent of "Oh my god" in that case.
 
2013-05-04 11:09:50 PM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: But you said they've been doing it for thirty years, so ostensibly there's a cache somewhere in Palestine. Or is it just like whack a mole, missiles come in, missiles get blowed up?


Hizbullah is operating out of Lebanon. And yes, it's a lot like whack a mole, very often you'll hear about 'mysterious explosions' in Lebanon where a lot of shiat blew up in depots and factories and everyone plays coy about it.

Oh and Iran has been sending tons of weapon to Hamas through both Syria and Sudan as well, usually we just destroy those before they reach Gaza or even Egypt (from where they cross in)
 
2013-05-04 11:10:23 PM

Tatsuma: Somacandra: All the macho military assholes on all sides there love dead civilian babies. They spray their jockey shorts on it. When it happens to themselves they feel "justified" and when it happens to the other side its "richly deserved."

This is bullshiat, you don't ever see Israelis dancing in the street and distributing sweets where there are news that children have been killed.

That's a farking disgusting assertion.


Hmm, I seem to recall a certain Israeli farker responding to the deaths of a planeload of civilians with this image...


www.gambooge.net
 
2013-05-04 11:13:01 PM

mayIFark: TuteTibiImperes: mayIFark: BravadoGT: mayIFark: BravadoGT: mayIFark: So, let me get this straight, Hamas shoots rockets at random targets in Israel - Terrorism (Agreed).
Israel shoots even more powerful stuff at random targets all over the middle east - Not Terrorism (What the fark?)

that wasn't a "random target." It wasn't a school or a pizzeria; it was a missile factory.  Meant to be fired at them.  There is a big difference.

So, according to you, if Hamas fires on a Israeli arms depot, that is fine?

it'd be better.  But they never do that.  They want lots of civilian blood.  Dead babies.  That's their focus for choosing targets.

Yet, more civilians are killed each year (100x or so) by Isrealis than by Hamas. Funny how that works.

And Israel never hit Hospital before, or was there arms too (well, some amputees do have arms left, or just one arm left).

Israel is a sovereign nation with trained soldiers, Hamas is a terrorist organization.  Israel doesn't station military facilities right next to, or inside of, schools and hospitals, Hamas does.  Without an internationally recognized military force Hamas terrorists are by default civilians.

Same action, as you just said yourself, yet different label. That was my original question.


That isn't what I said at all.  Hamas launches attacks from hospitals and schools, making those areas targets.

Israel is a real nation, Palestine is not.  Israel is happy to grant citizenship to Muslims and Arabs - the Palestinians are free to simply become Israeli.  They can still practice their religion in peace, and they would be able to vote and contribute in the political system just as the Jewish citizens of Israel do.  Instead they choose to continue living on Israeli land and engage in terroristic violence.
 
2013-05-04 11:13:06 PM

utah dude: i know i'm supposed to support israel as a mormon chrisitian whatever and what not but seriously i wish israel would just put the guns down and move to some remote part of canada.


I'll write in Alaska.
 
2013-05-04 11:13:26 PM

Radioactive Ass: Bit'O'Gristle: /Seriously, cant they stop throwing out ackbars? It's getting a bit dated.

That was the equivalent of "Oh my god" in that case.


Depends on if high-fives are being exchanged...might be more like "holy shiat...did you see that!?"

/but "Oh my god" works in polite company
 
2013-05-04 11:18:59 PM
You know, there is a very simple solution to all the strife in the middle east.

EVERYONE ELSE STAY THE FARK OUT OF IT

If crazies want to fight, then let them fight. Don't shower them with money and weapons. Don't stick a huge greedy nose where it doesn't belong. Let the bloodthirsty slaughter each other if that's what they want to do. If we're really lucky, they will all annihilate each other and someone with some sense can move in and make something of the region.
 
2013-05-04 11:19:04 PM

Stone Meadow: Radioactive Ass: Bit'O'Gristle: /Seriously, cant they stop throwing out ackbars? It's getting a bit dated.

That was the equivalent of "Oh my god" in that case.

Depends on if high-fives are being exchanged...might be more like "holy shiat...did you see that!?"

/but "Oh my god" works in polite company


So... it's the Arabic equivalent of Aloha. Many different meanings to one phrase.
 
2013-05-04 11:19:10 PM
Israel can't help it. They have what is like a sexual urge to express their violent personality. It builds up, builds up and then...they drop some bombs, kill some arabs and then they have a cigarette and are satisfied for a few days.
 
2013-05-04 11:20:22 PM

My Bologna Has A Maiden Name: If crazies want to fight, then let them fight. Don't shower them with money and weapons. Don't stick a huge greedy nose where it doesn't belong. Let the bloodthirsty slaughter each other if that's what they want to do. If we're really lucky, they will all annihilate each other and someone with some sense can move in and make something of the region.


Unfortunately the crazies don't stay put after they "Win".
 
2013-05-04 11:23:25 PM
 
2013-05-04 11:25:15 PM

Tatsuma: Another video of the strike, incredible stuff starts 18 seconds in

Holy fark.


That appears to be the same video as before.
 
2013-05-04 11:25:22 PM

Tatsuma: Another video of the strike, incredible stuff starts 18 seconds in

Holy fark.


Paula snack bar.
 
2013-05-04 11:26:39 PM

TuteTibiImperes: That appears to be the same video as before.


Even though I'm subby, did you really expect me to RTFA or TFT? Really?


(I've seen six different videos so far, didn't know people in this thread saw this one)
 
2013-05-04 11:28:15 PM

Fark Me To Tears: Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.

I think you've got that backwards, sport. Israel is doing this on our behalf.


What do we care which insane dictator is in charge of Syria? They don't have ICBMs or nukes.
 
2013-05-04 11:28:22 PM

UrinalPooper: It's nice to see a competent nation stepping up and policing things.


Pretty much this.

Also, calm down everyone. This is business as usual, not your long expected coming of the apocalypse.
 
2013-05-04 11:29:43 PM

Radioactive Ass: Stone Meadow: Depends on if high-fives are being exchanged...might be more like "holy shiat...did you see that!?"

/but "Oh my god" works in polite company

So... it's the Arabic equivalent of Aloha. Many different meanings to one phrase.


Yup...exactly.
 
2013-05-04 11:30:10 PM

leevis: Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.

Because the US has such a long history of invading Israel's neighbor's for them?


Adolf Oliver Nipples: Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.

Historically they've done quite well on their own, so I wouldn't worry too much about that.


picturescrazy: Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.

Syria can barely keep its government intact in the middle of a civil war despite having a lot more firepower. Do you really think in the middle of that Israel would need our help?


They are spending our money every time they drop a bomb, so I wouldn't be so quick to imagine that they are some independent military titan of the Middle East. If the U.S. stopped giving them $3 billion worth of military equipment every year, they would be sitting ducks.
 
2013-05-04 11:31:17 PM

Tatsuma: TuteTibiImperes: That appears to be the same video as before.

Even though I'm subby, did you really expect me to RTFA or TFT? Really?


(I've seen six different videos so far, didn't know people in this thread saw this one)


UNC_Samurai posted it at the very top of the thread. That's the one to which I responded "holy farking shiat."

That said, it's probably the best video i've seen so far of the explosion, so reposting it isn't such a bad thing.
 
2013-05-04 11:32:46 PM

ravenlore: UNC_Samurai posted it at the very top of the thread. That's the one to which I responded "holy farking shiat."

That said, it's probably the best video i've seen so far of the explosion, so reposting it isn't such a bad thing.


Ah!

And yeah it definitely needed to be seen again
 
2013-05-04 11:34:25 PM
I'm being entertained by the Youtube/Liveleak commenters who think it was a nuclear strike.
 
2013-05-04 11:35:13 PM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Tatsuma: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: What does Syria have to gain by giving missiles to Hezbollah?

... you do realize that they've been doing that for nearly 30 years, right?

So then why isn't Hezbollah using them instead of rockets?


They're probably keeping them in the same underground bunker as Saddam's WMDs (Iraq War), guarded by the magical disappearing quarter million Iraqi troops along the Kuwati border (Gulf War) and the imaginary North Vietnamese ships from the Gulf of Tonkin (Vietnam War).

Israel has learned well from the US.  Just remember to keep the intelligence reports classified until it's too late to turn back,
 
2013-05-04 11:36:26 PM

Tatsuma: Israel is safer for your son than even crossing the street.


Are there not streets in Israel? Because if there are, it's at least equally dangerous.
 
2013-05-04 11:36:27 PM
Tommy Moo:  If the U.S. stopped giving them $3 billion worth of military equipment every year, they would be sitting ducks.

Oh for crying out loud, will you give it up? The US gives the same military aid each year to Egypt as we do to Israel. Not to mention that Saudi Arabia buys 3 times as much each year as the other two combined. Maintaining military parity in the region has prevented large scale warfare for 40 years and counting now...or did you forget that?
 
2013-05-04 11:36:45 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: utah dude: i know i'm supposed to support israel as a mormon chrisitian whatever and what not but seriously i wish israel would just put the guns down and move to some remote part of canada.

Isn't Utah supposed to be famous as a place religious folks go to settle? Why not welcome them there?


I didn't know you were such an anti-Semite. I mean, geez, I'm not a huge fan of Israel, but relocating them to Utah? There are limits here.
 
2013-05-04 11:38:15 PM

Tommy Moo: They are spending our money every time they drop a bomb, so I wouldn't be so quick to imagine that they are some independent military titan of the Middle East. If the U.S. stopped giving them $3 billion worth of military equipment every year, they would be sitting ducks.


That's not the same as "expect(ing) that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you". The US will not fight any wars for them, has never done so, and Israel hasn't asked them to. They've done quite well on their own.
 
2013-05-04 11:38:18 PM

Poopy MacPoop: Are there not streets in Israel? Because if there are, it's at least equally dangerous.


Our streets are paved of gold, where Unicorns wander freely and sidewalks are made of cotton candy!

Stone Meadow: Oh for crying out loud, will you give it up? The US gives the same military aid each year to Egypt as we do to Israel. Not to mention that Saudi Arabia buys 3 times as much each year as the other two combined. Maintaining military parity in the region has prevented large scale warfare for 40 years and counting now...or did you forget that?


At the end of the day Israel has given about $10 worth for every dollar it has received.

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: I didn't know you were such an anti-Semite.


Ask her about how many Jews died in the Holocaust.
 
2013-05-04 11:38:55 PM

Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.


A full scale invasion from whom, exactly? The Syrians? The Optometrist in Damascus has other things to worry about.
 
2013-05-04 11:41:46 PM

Poopy MacPoop: Tatsuma: Israel is safer for your son than even crossing the street.

Are there not streets in Israel? Because if there are, it's at least equally dangerous.


They probably drive less there...EVERYONE drives less than the US.
 
2013-05-04 11:42:52 PM
Amazing how ignorant some of you are about why Israel did this.
 
2013-05-04 11:45:09 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Amazing how ignorant some of you are about why Israel did this.


The best part is that, with a post like that, he could easily be on either side of this discussion.

Anyone wanna give odds?
 
2013-05-04 11:49:21 PM
www.charlock.org
 
2013-05-04 11:49:21 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Amazing how ignorant some of you are about why Israel did this.


Pre-emptive strike against Japan.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2013-05-04 11:49:37 PM

Emposter: Popcorn Johnny: Amazing how ignorant some of you are about why Israel did this.

The best part is that, with a post like that, he could easily be on either side of this discussion.

Anyone wanna give odds?


I know why they did it, let's hear why you think they did it.
 
2013-05-04 11:53:09 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Emposter: Popcorn Johnny: Amazing how ignorant some of you are about why Israel did this.

The best part is that, with a post like that, he could easily be on either side of this discussion.

Anyone wanna give odds?

I know why they did it, let's hear why you think they did it.


Oh nonono.  After you, Mr. Everyone Else is So Ignorant.
 
2013-05-04 11:53:20 PM
Let Israel go to war with Syria.

As long as they understand the US is not coming to bail them out when/if Iran decides they want to play too.
 
2013-05-04 11:53:24 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Emposter: Popcorn Johnny: Amazing how ignorant some of you are about why Israel did this.

The best part is that, with a post like that, he could easily be on either side of this discussion.

Anyone wanna give odds?

I know why they did it, let's hear why you think they did it.


Advanced game of rock-paper-scissors with Chuck Norris?
 
2013-05-04 11:53:26 PM

mayIFark: So, let me get this straight, Hamas shoots rockets at random targets in Israel - Terrorism (Agreed).
Israel shoots even more powerful stuff at random targets all over the middle east - Not Terrorism (What the fark?)


Seems much less random hitting a pile of weapons, than a produce market, no?
 
2013-05-04 11:54:03 PM

DubtodaIll: mayIFark: So, let me get this straight, Hamas shoots rockets at random targets in Israel - Terrorism (Agreed).
Israel shoots even more powerful stuff at random targets all over the middle east - Not Terrorism (What the fark?)

The difference between terrorism and defensive military operations is organization.


And scale.

And rules.

And accountability.

And international recognition.

And them little $0.35 can openers.
 
2013-05-04 11:54:24 PM
TuteTibiImperes:
Israel is a real nation, Palestine is not.  Israel is happy to grant citizenship to Muslims and Arabs - the Palestinians are free to simply become Israeli.  They can still practice their religion in peace, and they would be able to vote and contribute in the political system just as the Jewish citizens of Israel do.

Actually, this is completely untrue.  Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are not allowed to become naturalized citizens by Israeli nationality law, unless they are Jewish and can claim citizenship by the right of return - which is why the Jewish settlers there are citizens while their Muslim and Christian neighbors are not.  Curiously, the Golan Heights have been fully incorporated and residents there can become Israeli citizens.

Source: Wikipedia (and prior personal knowledge)
 
2013-05-04 11:56:11 PM

UNC_Samurai: They apparently hit an ammo dump.  The missile warheads all went up at once.


I wonder what was REALLY stored at that "fertilizer plant" in Texas.
 
2013-05-04 11:58:03 PM

Begoggle: I wonder what was REALLY stored at that "fertilizer plant" in Texas.


Sometimes I wish you could post emoticons so I could just reply with :rolleyes:
 
2013-05-04 11:58:57 PM

Tommy Moo: leevis: Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for
They are spending our money every time they drop a bomb, so I wouldn't be so quick to imagine that they are some independent military titan of the Middle East. If the U.S. stopped giving them $3 billion worth of military equipment every year, they would be sitting ducks.


Um, that's not how military aid works. The US doesn't *give* Israel anything. The way it works is we transfer money there, then Israel *buys* military hardware from American companies. If we stopped giving them military aid, that's $3 billion worth of stuff that American companies wouldn't be able to sell-leading to a loss of a lot of good paying jobs. It's corporate welfare that actually wroks for all concerned. Plus, we get the results of real-world testing.
 
2013-05-05 12:00:45 AM

Begoggle: UNC_Samurai: They apparently hit an ammo dump.  The missile warheads all went up at once.

I wonder what was REALLY stored at that "fertilizer plant" in Texas.


Are you suggesting that the plant fertilizer plant itself was, in fact, a plant?

rarerborealis.com
 
2013-05-05 12:00:59 AM

Begoggle: UNC_Samurai: They apparently hit an ammo dump.  The missile warheads all went up at once.

I wonder what was REALLY stored at that "fertilizer plant" in Texas.


Fertilizer which explodes, mostly.
 
2013-05-05 12:08:56 AM

Bit'O'Gristle: UNC_Samurai: They apparently hit an ammo dump.  The missile warheads all went up at once.

/Seriously, cant they stop throwing out ackbars? It's getting a bit dated.


It's their version of saying "Jesus Christ" as an exclamation, (or for those of us from the Ottawa Valley, "Jesus Murphy" or if particularly surprised "Jesus H. Murphy").
 
2013-05-05 12:12:06 AM

Tatsuma: Yeah, again complete bullshiat that has nothing to do with reality.


My daughter was brutally raped her first day in Tel Aviv.  Really, <b>Tatsuma</b>, it's a barbaric region.
 
2013-05-05 12:15:42 AM

MorrisBird: My daughter was brutally raped her first day in Tel Aviv. Really, <b>Tatsuma</b>, it's a barbaric region.


Yes because it's not like there's a rape happening every two minutes in America. Nope.

Very sorry about your daughter, but that post was just farking stupid.
 
2013-05-05 12:16:06 AM

God-is-a-Taco: Hm, those voices sound identical to the ones I've heard in previous Syrian videos. I guess it's the same people, or they're lazy and re-using audio.


The Syrian version of the Wilhelm scream?
 
2013-05-05 12:16:49 AM

Stone Meadow: Tommy Moo:  If the U.S. stopped giving them $3 billion worth of military equipment every year, they would be sitting ducks.

Oh for crying out loud, will you give it up? The US gives the same military aid each year to Egypt as we do to Israel. Not to mention that Saudi Arabia buys 3 times as much each year as the other two combined. Maintaining military parity in the region has prevented large scale warfare for 40 years and counting now...or did you forget that?


Actually, Israel gets more than twice as much military aid from the US than Egypt, more than Egypt, Pakistan, and Iraq combined (the next three highest recipients of US aid).  Admittedly, Egypt and Saudi Arabia buy a lot of US military hardware, but that's their own money they are using for that, not a handout.

As for parity preventing warfare, I think that has as much to do with the Cold War as US military aid as an intervention.  Also, you can't leave out the Iran-Iraq war, and then the Persian Gulf war three or so years later - while not as "interstate", the consequences were broad.
 
2013-05-05 12:17:50 AM

Ghastly: Bit'O'Gristle: UNC_Samurai: They apparently hit an ammo dump.  The missile warheads all went up at once.

/Seriously, cant they stop throwing out ackbars? It's getting a bit dated.

It's their version of saying "Jesus Christ" as an exclamation, (or for those of us from the Ottawa Valley, "Jesus Murphy" or if particularly surprised "Jesus H. Murphy").


To be fair, it's equally annoying when some redneck ruins a perfectly good explosion/natural disaster video with a multi-minute barrage of "ohjesusohjesusohjesusohjesus..."  You all know what I'm talking about.
 
2013-05-05 12:23:20 AM
FatherofWallaby:
Um, that's not how military aid works. The US doesn't *give* Israel anything. The way it works is we transfer money there, then Israel *buys* military hardware from American companies. If we stopped giving them military aid, that's $3 billion worth of stuff that American companies wouldn't be able to sell-leading to a loss of a lot of good paying jobs. It's corporate welfare that actually wroks for all concerned. Plus, we get the results of real-world testing.

It's the worst kind of corporate welfare because in the end, apart from spreading more misery in the middle east it does nothing to benefit Americans at large. A few thousand people might have jobs but when it's all said and done the only Americans who truly see any benefit from this are the owners of the weapons manufacturers.

A better use of those funds would be to repair America's infrastructure. Put the money to work fixing roads, bridges, building public works, schools, hospitals, airports, parks and recreation, high speed rail, public transportation etc. The same money the government currently sticks into military spending would employ many, many times that number creating works that truly benefit all of the citizenry instead of a rich few.

For a country that claims to worship capitalism above all else it is actually anything but capitalistic in foreign policy. "Buy/sell us shiat or we'll bomb you to the stone age" is not how the "free market" is supposed to work. If they actually did practice capitalism as a foreign policy instead of using the public coffers and military as mercenaries for the business interests of private corporations then there wouldn't be a shiat load of people in the world pissed off at them and they'd truly have a standard of living the envy of the world. They could transform the entire country into a 21st century marvel. Instead there are still large parts of the nation where the standard of living is barely above that of the turn of the last century.

The "but it's good corporate welfare" is the worst excuse for the bloated military spending of the United States.
 
2013-05-05 12:24:00 AM

Emposter: Ghastly: Bit'O'Gristle: UNC_Samurai: They apparently hit an ammo dump.  The missile warheads all went up at once.

/Seriously, cant they stop throwing out ackbars? It's getting a bit dated.

It's their version of saying "Jesus Christ" as an exclamation, (or for those of us from the Ottawa Valley, "Jesus Murphy" or if particularly surprised "Jesus H. Murphy").

To be fair, it's equally annoying when some redneck ruins a perfectly good explosion/natural disaster video with a multi-minute barrage of "ohjesusohjesusohjesusohjesus..."  You all know what I'm talking about.


Ain't nobody got time for that.
 
2013-05-05 12:26:08 AM

Ghastly: It's the worst kind of corporate welfare because in the end, apart from spreading more misery in the middle east it does nothing to benefit Americans at large. A few thousand people might have jobs but when it's all said and done the only Americans who truly see any benefit from this are the owners of the weapons manufacturers.


Yeah this is not true.


WHAT ISRAEL DOES FOR THE UNITED STATES and much more

Throughout the six decades since the re-establishment of Israel, an often repeated claim in made that "Israel is a draining liability on the United States." This claim is bogus and an examination of the facts hopefully will consign this charge to the trash-heap where it belongs.

Further adding to the problem are statements made by and the conduct of Israel's leftist leaders since 1993 create the false impression that Israeli-American ties constitute a one-way relationship. The impression is given that the U.S. gives and Israel merely receives and thus must constantly bow to "American pressure" as personified by the U.S. State Department.

The truth is that the relationship is a two-way partnership. For example:

• In 1952, as the Cold War got underway, U.S. Army Chief-of-Staff Omar Bradley called for the integration of Israel into the Mediterranean Basin area, in light of the country's location and unique capabilities.

• In 1967, Israel defeated a radical Arab, pro-Soviet offensive, which threatened to bring about the collapse of pro-American Arab regimes and disrupt oil supply, thus severely undermining the American standard of living. The U.S. gained valuable military information from analysis of captured Soviet equipment, including SAM-2, SAM-12, Mig-21 aircraft, and Soviet T-54 battle tanks. In fact, Israel gave an entire squadron of MiG-21s to the U.S. which was dubbed the "Top Gun" squadron and used by the U.S. Air and Naval forces for training purposes. Since 1967, Israel transferred captured Soviet weapons systems to the U.S. Pentagon after every conflict: 1967, 1967-70, 1973, 1982, 1990 (Scud remnants from the Gulf War), and 2006 (remnants of Iranian supplied missiles.

In the 1967-1970 1000 Day War of Attrition, the IDF, armed with American aircraft successfully defeated a Soviet-supplied air defense system, pointing out the deficiencies in Soviet air-defense doctrine to US defense planners. Israel shared captured military equipment include P-2 radar and Soviet tanks with the U.S. military.

• In 1970, Israel brought about the withdrawal of Syrian forces from Jordan, at a time when the U.S. was tied up by wars in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia, thus preventing the fall of the pro-American Hashemite regime and the installation of a pro-Soviet radical Palestinian terrorist regime.

• In 1973 - thanks to U.S. re-supply, but without U.S. forces, Israel defeated Soviet-trained and equipped Egyptian and Syrian forces. Israel again shared captured Soviet equipment, including T-62 battle tanks with the U.S. Israel emerged as the only reliable ally where U.S. troops could land, where U.S. equipment can be pre-positioned, where the U.S. has friendly port facilities (in Haifa and Ashdod) in the entire Middle East region. This too has saved the U.S. billions of dollars.

• 1970s - Joseph Sisco, a former U.S. Assistant Secretary of State, assistant to Secretary of State Henry Kissinger during the latter's shuttle diplomacy, told the Israeli author and military expert, Shmuel Katz: "I want to assure you, Mr. Katz, that if we were not getting full value for our money, you would not get a cent from us."

• In 1981, Israel bombed the Iraqi nuclear reactor at Osirak, delaying Saddam Hussein's quest for nuclear weapons. It thus provided the U.S. with the option of engaging in conventional wars with Iraq in 1991 and 2003.

• The vice president General Dynamics which produces the F16 fighter jets has stated that Israel is responsible for 600 improvements in the plane's systems, modifications estimated to be worth billions of dollars, which spared dozens of research and development years.

• In 1982, Israel destroyed Soviet anti-aircraft batteries in Lebanon that were considered immune to American weapons. Israel promptly shared the operation's lessons, estimated to be worth billions of dollars.

• Former Secretary of State and NATO forces commander Alexander Haig has stated that he is pro-Israeli because Israel is the largest American aircraft carrier in the world that cannot be sunk, does not carry even one American soldier, and is located in a critical region for American national security.

• During the first Gulf War 1991, Israel provided invaluable intelligence, an umbrella of air cover for military cargo, and had personnel planted in the Iraqi desert to pick up downed American pilots.


General George Keegan, former head of U.S. Air Force Intelligence has publicly declared that "Israel is worth five CIA's." He further stated that between 1974 and 1990, Israel received $18.3 billion in U.S. military grants. During the same period Israel provided the U.S. with $50-80 billion in intelligence, research and development savings, and Soviet weapons systems captured and transferred to the U.S.

• In 2005, Israel provided America with the world's most extensive experience in homeland defense and warfare against suicide bombers and car bombs. American soldiers train in IDF facilities and Israeli-made drones fly above the "Sunni Triangle" in Iraq, as well as in Afghanistan, providing U.S. Marines with vital intelligence.

• In September 2007, the IAF destroyed a Syrian-North Korean nuclear plant, extending the US's strategic arm. It provided the US with vital information on Russian air defense systems, which are also employed by Iran. It bolstered the US posture of deterrence and refuted the claim that US-Israel relations have been shaped by political expediency.

• In 2009, Israel shares with the US its battle-tested experience in combating Palestinian and Hizbullah terrorism, which are the role model of anti-US Islamic terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan. US GIs benefit from Israel's battle tactics against car bombs, improvised explosive devices and homicide bombing. An Israel-like ally in the Persian Gulf would have spared the need to dispatch US troops to Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

• Israel has relayed to the U.S. lessons of battle (during the Cold War - Soviet military doctrine) and counter-terrorism (including aircraft security, homicide-suicide bombings) which reduce American losses in Iraq and Afghanistan, prevent attacks on U.S. soil, upgrade American weapons, and contribute to the U.S. economy. Without Israel, the U.S. would have been forced to deploy tens of thousands of American troops in the eastern Mediterranean Basin, at a cost of billions of dollars a year.

• Senator Daniel Inouye has recently (2005) argued Israeli information regarding Soviet arms saved the U.S. billions of dollars. The contribution made by Israeli intelligence to America is greater than that provided by all NATO countries combined, he said.

• Israel's utilization of American arms guarantees its existence, but at the same time gives U.S. military industries, such as Boeing and General Dynamics, a competitive edge compared to European industries, while also boosting American military production, producing American jobs, and improving America's national security. Japan and South Korea, for example, preferred the "Hawkeye" spy plane and the MD-500 chopper, both purchased and upgraded by Israel, over comparable British and French aircraft.

The American industries want U.S. aid to Israel to continue. The bulk of the $1.8 billion in annual U.S. military aid to Israel must be spent in the United States. That provides jobs for some 50,000 U.S. workers. Virtually all of the $1.2 billion in annual economic aid goes for repayment of debt to the United States, incurred from military purchases dating back many years. This debt is now close to being liquidated.

• Innovative Israeli technologies have a similar effect on American civilian, including computer-related industries and agricultural industries, which view Israel as a successful research and development site.

• Members of the U.S. Congress leaders, then Vice President Dick Cheney, and then Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld are aware of Israel's unique contribution to U.S. interests. But, in fact, they all wonder why the post-1993 Israel does not use its impressive contribution as leverage, in sharp contrast to the pre-1993 Israel.

• In contrast to our commitments to Korea, Japan, Germany and other parts of the world, not a single American serviceperson needs to be stationed in Israel. Considering that the cost of one serviceperson per year - including backup and infrastructure - is estimated to be about $200,000 per year, and assuming a minimum contingent of 25,000 troops, the cost savings to the United States on that score alone are on the order of $5 billion a year.

So cutting aid to Israel means losing hundreds of billions of dollars worth of intelligence and help, the one actual friendly country in the Middle-East and 50,000 American jobs.

America gets $10 for every dollar it puts in. I'd say that both sides are doing ok.
 
2013-05-05 12:28:16 AM

zamboni: God-is-a-Taco: Hm, those voices sound identical to the ones I've heard in previous Syrian videos. I guess it's the same people, or they're lazy and re-using audio.

The Syrian version of the Wilhelm scream?


Ugh. Ever since I saw that youtube montage of that a few months ago I hear that everywhere. American Dad uses it all the time.
 
2013-05-05 12:30:14 AM

utah dude: give it back to Palestine.


They never had it in the first place.
 
2013-05-05 12:32:54 AM

Smeggy Smurf: utah dude: give it back to Palestine.

They never had it in the first place.


We could give it back to the Ottoman Turks.
 
2013-05-05 12:32:59 AM

Tatsuma: Another video of the strike, incredible stuff starts 18 seconds in

Holy fark.


I heard a lot of "Ackbar", I sense this may be a trap.
 
2013-05-05 12:34:12 AM

Begoggle: UNC_Samurai: They apparently hit an ammo dump.  The missile warheads all went up at once.

I wonder what was REALLY stored at that "fertilizer plant" in Texas.


West, Texas was as much as 270 tons of ammonium nitrate.  Go take a look at the 1947 Texas City Disaster - there was a fire, people came out to rubberneck, and the fire spread to a ship carrying 2,300 tons of ammonium nitrate, and that caught another ship with ANOTHER 961 tons.

581 deaths, including all but one of the Texas City Fire Department.  500 homes were destroyed.  $1.3 billion in inflation-adjusted damages.  It's considered the sixth-largest conventional explosion in the history of man - behind the Soviet lunar rocket explosion, the two White Sands Range bomb tests, the British test-bombing of Heligoland, and the Halifax ammunition ship explosion.
 
2013-05-05 12:35:12 AM

Tatsuma: Another video of the strike, incredible stuff starts 18 seconds in

Holy fark.


BEARSTRIKE

i25.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-05 12:45:07 AM

Gyrfalcon: Smeggy Smurf: utah dude: give it back to Palestine.

They never had it in the first place.

We could give it back to the Ottoman Turks.


If they can take it and keep it they can have it.  That's the way the world works.
 
2013-05-05 12:48:19 AM
I'm of two minds here.

One, I'm glad to see that someone is helping pull some pressure off of the Syrian rebels fighting Assad.

Two, Israel better not think that we're going to jump in there if Syria gets froggy.

Obama's done a great job with foreign policy thus far, with Libya being a prime example of how to orchestrate a military effort with minimal cost and maximum results with zero American deaths.  If we can do that with Syria, awesome.  If not, screw em, it's not worth one American life.
 
2013-05-05 12:48:21 AM
Primitive Biblical bignoses are killing each other. Again.

i18.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-05 12:49:16 AM
Look at that awesome fighter jet your tax dollars paid for, America.  Look at it.
 
2013-05-05 12:51:15 AM

God-is-a-Taco: zamboni: God-is-a-Taco: Hm, those voices sound identical to the ones I've heard in previous Syrian videos. I guess it's the same people, or they're lazy and re-using audio.

The Syrian version of the Wilhelm scream?

Ugh. Ever since I saw that youtube montage of that a few months ago I hear that everywhere. American Dad uses it all the time.


The Dean scream is starting to take its place.
 
2013-05-05 12:51:55 AM

FatherofWallaby: Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.

A full scale invasion from whom, exactly? The Syrians? The Optometrist in Damascus has other things to worry about.


FatherofWallaby: Tommy Moo: leevis: Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for
They are spending our money every time they drop a bomb, so I wouldn't be so quick to imagine that they are some independent military titan of the Middle East. If the U.S. stopped giving them $3 billion worth of military equipment every year, they would be sitting ducks.

Um, that's not how military aid works. The US doesn't *give* Israel anything. The way it works is we transfer money there, then Israel *buys* military hardware from American companies. If we stopped giving them military aid, that's $3 billion worth of stuff that American companies wouldn't be able to sell-leading to a loss of a lot of good paying jobs. It's corporate welfare that actually wroks for all concerned. Plus, we get the results of real-world testing.


How is that any different than us gifting them the military equipment? The fact that money has made an imaginary trip in a circle? It's no different if we hand them money and they hand it back to us for weapons, or if we just give them the weapons for free. U.S. taxpayers are paying taxes to build weapons to give to Israel so they can fight wars that the U.S. has no interest in. Yes, the people who make those weapons have jobs, but this is the same thing as welfare. The government should not be spending tax money for the sole purpose of creating worthless jobs that return no value to the taxpayers. Those people could be repurposed in fields that are beneficial to the taxpayers, such as infrastructure investment.
 
2013-05-05 12:52:20 AM
Tatsuma:
Yeah this is not true.

The US would have no need for any of that intelligence if its foreign policy was to mind its own business militarily speaking. Despite what the Fox News crowd chants nobody "hates them for their freedom". They hate them for interfering with sovereign nations on behalf of the business interests of a few obscenely rich people.

If the US actually practiced what it preached there'd be very few people pissed with them and Wahabism wouldn't have taken hold in the Muslim world to begin with.
 
2013-05-05 12:52:29 AM
If it keeps advanced weapons out of Hezbollah's hands....then it was a good strike.

Kudos to Israel.
 
2013-05-05 01:03:05 AM

Ghastly: The US would have no need for any of that intelligence if its foreign policy was to mind its own business militarily speaking. Despite what the Fox News crowd chants nobody "hates them for their freedom". They hate them for interfering with sovereign nations on behalf of the business interests of a few obscenely rich people.

If the US actually practiced what it preached there'd be very few people pissed with them and Wahabism wouldn't have taken hold in the Muslim world to begin with.


That ship has sailed. The US couldn't be isolationist even if it wanted to (which, incidentally, would be a global economic disaster). When the US doesn't "interfere" it is seen as biased because we "interfere" everywhere else. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
 
2013-05-05 01:04:55 AM

Ghastly: If the US actually practiced what it preached there'd be very few people pissed with them and Wahabism wouldn't have taken hold in the Muslim world to begin with.


Sighing so hard right here. The rise of Wahhabism had nothing to do with America. Time to go to bed.
 
2013-05-05 01:06:47 AM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Ghastly: The US would have no need for any of that intelligence if its foreign policy was to mind its own business militarily speaking. Despite what the Fox News crowd chants nobody "hates them for their freedom". They hate them for interfering with sovereign nations on behalf of the business interests of a few obscenely rich people.

If the US actually practiced what it preached there'd be very few people pissed with them and Wahabism wouldn't have taken hold in the Muslim world to begin with.

That ship has sailed. The US couldn't be isolationist even if it wanted to (which, incidentally, would be a global economic disaster). When the US doesn't "interfere" it is seen as biased because we "interfere" everywhere else. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


Pretty much this right here.

If you want an example of how it SHOULD be done, look at how the global community dealt with Daffy in Libya.  It was a united regional/global effort with the US mostly taking a backseat role in providing aerial support and logistics while the regional authorities did their thing and the Libyan rebels did the actual on-the-ground fighting.
 
2013-05-05 01:07:08 AM
Muslims have been killing in the name of religion for two thousand years, but let's keep pretending it's because of America's support for Israel over the past fifty.
 
2013-05-05 01:07:38 AM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Ghastly: The US would have no need for any of that intelligence if its foreign policy was to mind its own business militarily speaking. Despite what the Fox News crowd chants nobody "hates them for their freedom". They hate them for interfering with sovereign nations on behalf of the business interests of a few obscenely rich people.

If the US actually practiced what it preached there'd be very few people pissed with them and Wahabism wouldn't have taken hold in the Muslim world to begin with.

That ship has sailed. The US couldn't be isolationist even if it wanted to (which, incidentally, would be a global economic disaster). When the US doesn't "interfere" it is seen as biased because we "interfere" everywhere else. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.


Seeing as we've become the global military police force, the least we can do is charge countries when we intervene.  Why not take oil from Iraq and sell it ourselves to pay down the cost of the war?  We gave them freedom, they can give do their part and help foot the bill.
 
2013-05-05 01:08:03 AM

Tatsuma: Ghastly: If the US actually practiced what it preached there'd be very few people pissed with them and Wahabism wouldn't have taken hold in the Muslim world to begin with.

Sighing so hard right here. The rise of Wahhabism had nothing to do with America. Time to go to bed.


Riiiiiiiiight.
 
2013-05-05 01:13:24 AM
Bad Hezbollah, you are supposed to hide the weapons among innocent women and children, that way when Israel strikes at your weapons destined to kill innocent Israeli citizens; the Israeli military is to blame.  By placing your warheads away from the civilian population, there is no way to raise legitimate outrage without "innocents" being killed in the raid.

Props to Israel, battle on brothers and sisters.
 
2013-05-05 01:15:29 AM

Infernalist: Adolf Oliver Nipples: Ghastly: The US would have no need for any of that intelligence if its foreign policy was to mind its own business militarily speaking. Despite what the Fox News crowd chants nobody "hates them for their freedom". They hate them for interfering with sovereign nations on behalf of the business interests of a few obscenely rich people.

If the US actually practiced what it preached there'd be very few people pissed with them and Wahabism wouldn't have taken hold in the Muslim world to begin with.

That ship has sailed. The US couldn't be isolationist even if it wanted to (which, incidentally, would be a global economic disaster). When the US doesn't "interfere" it is seen as biased because we "interfere" everywhere else. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Pretty much this right here.

If you want an example of how it SHOULD be done, look at how the global community dealt with Daffy in Libya.  It was a united regional/global effort with the US mostly taking a backseat role in providing aerial support and logistics while the regional authorities did their thing and the Libyan rebels did the actual on-the-ground fighting.


True but if Libya devolves into a full blown civil war or if the current government falls and another Dictator rises in power do we bear any responsibility of that? Or was it simply enough to leave the country in rebels hands and just be done with it? And if things fall apart and the new government is worse than before should we then do something to take that government out?
 
2013-05-05 01:17:46 AM
Here's some red meat for those of you who enjoy completely baseless speculation.
 
2013-05-05 01:21:02 AM

Tellingthem: Infernalist: Adolf Oliver Nipples: Ghastly: The US would have no need for any of that intelligence if its foreign policy was to mind its own business militarily speaking. Despite what the Fox News crowd chants nobody "hates them for their freedom". They hate them for interfering with sovereign nations on behalf of the business interests of a few obscenely rich people.

If the US actually practiced what it preached there'd be very few people pissed with them and Wahabism wouldn't have taken hold in the Muslim world to begin with.

That ship has sailed. The US couldn't be isolationist even if it wanted to (which, incidentally, would be a global economic disaster). When the US doesn't "interfere" it is seen as biased because we "interfere" everywhere else. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Pretty much this right here.

If you want an example of how it SHOULD be done, look at how the global community dealt with Daffy in Libya.  It was a united regional/global effort with the US mostly taking a backseat role in providing aerial support and logistics while the regional authorities did their thing and the Libyan rebels did the actual on-the-ground fighting.

True but if Libya devolves into a full blown civil war or if the current government falls and another Dictator rises in power do we bear any responsibility of that? Or was it simply enough to leave the country in rebels hands and just be done with it? And if things fall apart and the new government is worse than before should we then do something to take that government out?


Well, as recent history has shown, we're not just 'leaving it in rebel hands'.  The CIA and State Department are in there up to their necks, you can be sure, working hard to pay off all the local tribes/militias to get them to play nice and work with the new government.  Most of which has been relatively easy considering how god-damned grateful they were to see us coming to their rescue.

Now, does that mean that the government WON'T turn into an asshole government?  Nope!  But, you can rest assured that they have plans to cover pretty much every possible outcome in Libya.
 
2013-05-05 01:24:09 AM

Tatsuma: Ghastly: It's the worst kind of corporate welfare because in the end, apart from spreading more misery in the middle east it does nothing to benefit Americans at large. A few thousand people might have jobs but when it's all said and done the only Americans who truly see any benefit from this are the owners of the weapons manufacturers.

Yeah this is not true.


WHAT ISRAEL DOES FOR THE UNITED STATES and much more

Throughout the six decades since the re-establishment of Israel, an often repeated claim in made that "Israel is a draining liability on the United States." This claim is bogus and an examination of the facts hopefully will consign this charge to the trash-heap where it belongs.

Further adding to the problem are statements made by and the conduct of Israel's leftist leaders since 1993 create the false impression that Israeli-American ties constitute a one-way relationship. The impression is given that the U.S. gives and Israel merely receives and thus must constantly bow to "American pressure" as personified by the U.S. State Department.

The truth is that the relationship is a two-way partnership. For example:

• In 1952, as the Cold War got underway, U.S. Army Chief-of-Staff Omar Bradley called for the integration of Israel into the Mediterranean Basin area, in light of the country's location and unique capabilities.

• In 1967, Israel defeated a radical Arab, pro-Soviet offensive, which threatened to bring about the collapse of pro-American Arab regimes and disrupt oil supply, thus severely undermining the American standard of living. The U.S. gained valuable military information from analysis of captured Soviet equipment, including SAM-2, SAM-12, Mig-21 aircraft, and Soviet T-54 battle tanks. In fact, Israel gave an entire squadron of MiG-21s to the U.S. which was dubbed the "Top Gun" squadron and used by the U.S. Air and Naval forces for training purposes. Since 1967, Israel transferred captured Soviet weapons systems to the U.S. Pentagon after ever ...


That's a load of bullshiat right there.

Those 50,000 "jobs" you're talking about aren't even close to making up for the millions of manufacturing jobs Israel has propped up and stolen from us with said monetary and military aid. I use cutters every day that used to be made here in the US but are now made in Israel.

They don't deserve our aid, they don't deserve out military backing. They started out as terrorists and over the past 60 years have done little to improve their reputation. And if you even try to pull the Anti Semite card I will shove the menorah sitting atop my refrigerator right up your ass.
 
xcv
2013-05-05 01:24:52 AM
Apparently Israel has read a Prof. Vonnegut's "Report_on_the_Barnhouse_Effect"

Let the Assadians and Islamists kill each other with sticks and stones.
 
2013-05-05 01:26:42 AM

Ghastly: Tatsuma: Ghastly: If the US actually practiced what it preached there'd be very few people pissed with them and Wahabism wouldn't have taken hold in the Muslim world to begin with.

Sighing so hard right here. The rise of Wahhabism had nothing to do with America. Time to go to bed.

Riiiiiiiiight.


Salafism (Or Wah'habism) was founded in the 1740's as the teachings of ibn al-Wahhab, and gained popularity in the late 1800's when the house of Saud began its rise to dominance of the Arabian Peninsula. Militant Wahhabism became the religion of choice in the 1960's as a way of protesting both the West and the decadent House of Saud's alliance with same, without actually severing ties with all the decadent money that came with their alliance with Saud; but to say "Wahhabism is the fault of America" is a bit like saying "drug cartels in Mexico are the fault of the Catholic Church".
 
2013-05-05 01:28:08 AM

Tatsuma: WHAT ISRAEL DOES FOR THE UNITED STATES and much more


Get the United States into wars like Afghanistan and Iraq, blackmail the United States in 1973 with worldwide nuclear war which resulted in the Oil embargo and helped foster a recession that caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands, cost the United States and Europe trillions of dollars and tens of thousands of dead people...I could go on...

The evidence is undeniable but they ride the Holocaust card and call anyone a Nazi Hitler farker who calls them out on this. They want a pile of sand that is surrounded by people who hate them based on a farking fairytale, go for it. Leave the rest of the world out of it. Scumbags.
 
2013-05-05 01:31:19 AM

bindlestiff2600: Lsherm: UNC_Samurai: They apparently hit an ammo dump.  The missile warheads all went up at once.

That was pretty impressive.


warporn  see how attractive it is
and better yet
 recomended by your superiors


Dude, you farked up the Haiku, if that's what you were going for.  I mean, you farked it up in spades.
 
2013-05-05 01:33:11 AM

Flissss: ...blackmail the United States in 1973 with worldwide nuclear war which resulted in the Oil embargo and helped foster a recession that caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands

...

Are you nuts? Israel was responsible for the Yom Kippur War? Israel threatened someone, anyone, with nukes? Israel is a member of OPEC (and OAPEC)? In what alternate parallel universe do you live?
 
2013-05-05 01:33:58 AM
Not to mention the U.S. would be balls deep in Iran right now if they had their way whileNetanyahu masturbated to the sound of American cargo jets bringing dead kids back to the U.S. to be buried. It's a giant welfare state that just keeps going "Gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme."
 
2013-05-05 01:35:18 AM

Infernalist: Tellingthem: Infernalist: Adolf Oliver Nipples: Ghastly: The US would have no need for any of that intelligence if its foreign policy was to mind its own business militarily speaking. Despite what the Fox News crowd chants nobody "hates them for their freedom". They hate them for interfering with sovereign nations on behalf of the business interests of a few obscenely rich people.

If the US actually practiced what it preached there'd be very few people pissed with them and Wahabism wouldn't have taken hold in the Muslim world to begin with.

That ship has sailed. The US couldn't be isolationist even if it wanted to (which, incidentally, would be a global economic disaster). When the US doesn't "interfere" it is seen as biased because we "interfere" everywhere else. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Pretty much this right here.

If you want an example of how it SHOULD be done, look at how the global community dealt with Daffy in Libya.  It was a united regional/global effort with the US mostly taking a backseat role in providing aerial support and logistics while the regional authorities did their thing and the Libyan rebels did the actual on-the-ground fighting.

True but if Libya devolves into a full blown civil war or if the current government falls and another Dictator rises in power do we bear any responsibility of that? Or was it simply enough to leave the country in rebels hands and just be done with it? And if things fall apart and the new government is worse than before should we then do something to take that government out?

Well, as recent history has shown, we're not just 'leaving it in rebel hands'.  The CIA and State Department are in there up to their necks, you can be sure, working hard to pay off all the local tribes/militias to get them to play nice and work with the new government.  Most of which has been relatively easy considering how god-damned grateful they were to see us coming to their rescue.

Now, does that mean that the government ...


Well right now things are a little interesting at least. http://www.voanews.com/content/libya-crisis-healts-up/1653490.html

"Militiamen besieging key Libyan ministries say they won't release their chokehold on the government of Prime Minister Ali Zeidan until it fires anyone who worked for the regime of the late Moammar Gadhafi.'

And maybe we do have plans if things go south. But hopefully we wont need to use them. I'm just a little wary of celebrating our actions in Libya too much before things shake out. It could end up being a major disaster for the region...or a shining point...or something in between.
 
2013-05-05 01:35:36 AM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Flissss: ...blackmail the United States in 1973 with worldwide nuclear war which resulted in the Oil embargo and helped foster a recession that caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands...

Are you nuts? Israel was responsible for the Yom Kippur War? Israel threatened someone, anyone, with nukes? Israel is a member of OPEC (and OAPEC)? In what alternate parallel universe do you live?


I didn't say any of those things. Sober up or take a reading comprehension class.
 
2013-05-05 01:39:32 AM
I enjoy reading Tatsuma's posts, they let me know how people are being lied to now, how they will be lied to in the future, where they are being shepherded, and I get to see a degree of psychopathy in action that I haven't seen since I once visited a crocodile farm.

/yes I am LITERALLY Hitler
 
2013-05-05 01:41:09 AM

Flissss: Not to mention the U.S. would be balls deep in Iran right now if they had their way whileNetanyahu masturbated to the sound of American cargo jets bringing dead kids back to the U.S. to be buried. It's a giant welfare state that just keeps going "Gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme."


Please.  Israel has never been afraid to do their dirty work themselves.  Iran's ties with Russia have kept them safe in the past, and will likely continue to do so in the future, but if worst came to worst and Iran launched an attack on Israel, I don't doubt for a second that the IDF would jump into the fray with or without us to back them up.

At the end of the day the Jewish people have never launched an attack on the US, nor called for our destruction.  While there are plenty of peace loving and respectable Muslims out there, there are also a good number of them also call us the 'Great Satan' and wish for our demise, along with Israel's.

Given that, I'm behind Israel whatever they decide they need to do.
 
2013-05-05 01:41:20 AM
Pardon, Israel DID threaten to hit Soviet interests in 1973 with the explicit motivation get them involved if Nixon did not supply Israel. That really happened.
 
2013-05-05 01:42:54 AM

Flissss: Adolf Oliver Nipples: Flissss: ...blackmail the United States in 1973 with worldwide nuclear war which resulted in the Oil embargo and helped foster a recession that caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands...

Are you nuts? Israel was responsible for the Yom Kippur War? Israel threatened someone, anyone, with nukes? Israel is a member of OPEC (and OAPEC)? In what alternate parallel universe do you live?

I didn't say any of those things. Sober up or take a reading comprehension class.


I see what you said. I quoted it, in fact. The implications of your assertion were clear, I simply spelled them out. But, since you're choosing to play coy about what you meant, please answer these specific questions derived directly from your statement:

How, precisely, did Israel blackmail the US in 1973 with worldwide nuclear war? How, precisely, are the Israelis responsible for the 1973 oil embargo?

I can't wait for this...
 
2013-05-05 01:44:01 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Flissss: Not to mention the U.S. would be balls deep in Iran right now if they had their way whileNetanyahu masturbated to the sound of American cargo jets bringing dead kids back to the U.S. to be buried. It's a giant welfare state that just keeps going "Gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme."

Please.  Israel has never been afraid to do their dirty work themselves.  Iran's ties with Russia have kept them safe in the past, and will likely continue to do so in the future, but if worst came to worst and Iran launched an attack on Israel, I don't doubt for a second that the IDF would jump into the fray with or without us to back them up.

At the end of the day the Jewish people have never launched an attack on the US, nor called for our destruction.  While there are plenty of peace loving and respectable Muslims out there, there are also a good number of them also call us the 'Great Satan' and wish for our demise, along with Israel's.

Given that, I'm behind Israel whatever they decide they need to do.


The crew of the U.S.S. Liberty thinks you're full of shiat.
 
2013-05-05 01:44:27 AM

Tatsuma: This is bullshiat, you don't ever see Israelis dancing in the street and distributing sweets where there are news that children have been killed.


No, but we see them on Fark telling us that dead Arab children are merely "collateral damage" because, well, they're not quite human, are they, and certainly not God's Chosen Humans.
 
2013-05-05 01:45:49 AM

Infernalist: TuteTibiImperes: Flissss: Not to mention the U.S. would be balls deep in Iran right now if they had their way whileNetanyahu masturbated to the sound of American cargo jets bringing dead kids back to the U.S. to be buried. It's a giant welfare state that just keeps going "Gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme."

Please.  Israel has never been afraid to do their dirty work themselves.  Iran's ties with Russia have kept them safe in the past, and will likely continue to do so in the future, but if worst came to worst and Iran launched an attack on Israel, I don't doubt for a second that the IDF would jump into the fray with or without us to back them up.

At the end of the day the Jewish people have never launched an attack on the US, nor called for our destruction.  While there are plenty of peace loving and respectable Muslims out there, there are also a good number of them also call us the 'Great Satan' and wish for our demise, along with Israel's.

Given that, I'm behind Israel whatever they decide they need to do.

The crew of the U.S.S. Liberty thinks you're full of shiat.


OK, never purposefully launched an attack on the US.  War can be confusing, we've blown some stuff up that we didn't intend to as well.
 
2013-05-05 01:48:21 AM

TuteTibiImperes: While there are plenty of peace loving and respectable Muslims out there, there are also a good number of them also call us the 'Great Satan' and wish for our demise


There are just as many within the US who wish for its demise. You can't go declaring countries as enemies based on the opinions of a few citizens.
 
2013-05-05 01:49:59 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Infernalist: TuteTibiImperes: Flissss: Not to mention the U.S. would be balls deep in Iran right now if they had their way whileNetanyahu masturbated to the sound of American cargo jets bringing dead kids back to the U.S. to be buried. It's a giant welfare state that just keeps going "Gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme."

Please.  Israel has never been afraid to do their dirty work themselves.  Iran's ties with Russia have kept them safe in the past, and will likely continue to do so in the future, but if worst came to worst and Iran launched an attack on Israel, I don't doubt for a second that the IDF would jump into the fray with or without us to back them up.

At the end of the day the Jewish people have never launched an attack on the US, nor called for our destruction.  While there are plenty of peace loving and respectable Muslims out there, there are also a good number of them also call us the 'Great Satan' and wish for our demise, along with Israel's.

Given that, I'm behind Israel whatever they decide they need to do.

The crew of the U.S.S. Liberty thinks you're full of shiat.

OK, never purposefully launched an attack on the US.  War can be confusing, we've blown some stuff up that we didn't intend to as well.


The attack on the Liberty was 'called' accidental, but the evidence for it being a deliberate attack is considerable.  Look it up.

Israel attacked the Liberty with both air craft and naval vessels in a coordinated attack that lasted for a good long while.

So, yeah.  Nice guys, those Israelis.  Real solid dependable allies.
 
2013-05-05 01:50:29 AM

J. Frank Parnell: TuteTibiImperes: While there are plenty of peace loving and respectable Muslims out there, there are also a good number of them also call us the 'Great Satan' and wish for our demise

There are just as many within the US who wish for its demise. You can't go declaring countries as enemies based on the opinions of a few citizens.


I'm all for declaring the Tea Party enemies of the state and locking them up, but due process yadda yadda yadda.
 
2013-05-05 01:51:22 AM

God-is-a-Taco: Ugh. Ever since I saw that youtube montage of that a few months ago I hear that everywhere. American Dad uses it all the time.


It doesn't bother me as much as the woman's scream that is used all the time.  That one annoys the fark out of me, yet no one seems to mention it.  I'm guessing it doesn't have a catchy name.
 
2013-05-05 01:55:32 AM
Infernalist: 

The attack on the Liberty was 'called' accidental, but the evidence for it being a deliberate attack is considerable.  Look it up.

Israel attacked the Liberty with both air craft and naval vessels in a coordinated attack that lasted for a good long while.

So, yeah.  Nice guys, those Israelis.  Real solid dependable allies.


Conspiracy theorists believe all sorts of things.  Whack job theories aside, there is no motive for Israel to have purposefully fired on a US ship.  Being surrounded by hostile forces the last thing any sane nation would do would be to attack their closest ally.
 
2013-05-05 01:57:05 AM

Gyrfalcon: Ghastly: Tatsuma: Ghastly: If the US actually practiced what it preached there'd be very few people pissed with them and Wahabism wouldn't have taken hold in the Muslim world to begin with.

Sighing so hard right here. The rise of Wahhabism had nothing to do with America. Time to go to bed.

Riiiiiiiiight.

Salafism (Or Wah'habism) was founded in the 1740's as the teachings of ibn al-Wahhab, and gained popularity in the late 1800's when the house of Saud began its rise to dominance of the Arabian Peninsula. Militant Wahhabism became the religion of choice in the 1960's as a way of protesting both the West and the decadent House of Saud's alliance with same, without actually severing ties with all the decadent money that came with their alliance with Saud; but to say "Wahhabism is the fault of America" is a bit like saying "drug cartels in Mexico are the fault of the Catholic Church".


Wahabism was on the decline in the middle east  until the 1950s and would have been just something followed by the Muslim equivalent of "red necks" if it weren't for the US continually propping up puppet dictatorships for the sake of cheap oil. Like it or not radical Islamists are the result of US interference in the middle east. Had they actually practiced true capitalism instead of economic imperialism after WWII we wouldn't have the problem with Muslim fundamentalists. The more comfortable and affluent a society becomes the more secular it becomes. When people's lives are miserable they tend to become more extremist in their religious beliefs.

And I don't buy the defeatist argument that "well it's too late now, we've already farked shiat up" argument. The US could begin pulling back it's military influence in the world. If people don't want to buy/sell from you then fine, find someone else who does. That's the way capitalism is supposed to work. You don't bomb the shiat out of them and take their stuff or support dictators who rape their citizenry on your behalf.

For the US and Israel to sit back and shrug their shoulders and say "well it's not our fault Muslims are just an ignorant sub-species that only live to kill infidels" is ridiculous. This is a mess the West created and they're not going to be able to bomb their way out of this problem despite what the military/industrial complex says.
 
xcv
2013-05-05 01:58:33 AM

Infernalist: The attack on the Liberty was 'called' accidental, but the evidence for it being a deliberate attack is considerable. Look it up.

Israel attacked the Liberty with both air craft and naval vessels in a coordinated attack that lasted for a good long while.

So, yeah. Nice guys, those Israelis. Real solid dependable allies.


Just like the time the US strafed the shiat out of that Canadian convoy despite having the most modern air command and intelligence gathering force in military history. Or when the US smart-bombed that Chinese embassy, cause all those embassies look alike or something.
 
2013-05-05 01:58:59 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Infernalist: 

The attack on the Liberty was 'called' accidental, but the evidence for it being a deliberate attack is considerable.  Look it up.

Israel attacked the Liberty with both air craft and naval vessels in a coordinated attack that lasted for a good long while.

So, yeah.  Nice guys, those Israelis.  Real solid dependable allies.

Conspiracy theorists believe all sorts of things.  Whack job theories aside, there is no motive for Israel to have purposefully fired on a US ship.  Being surrounded by hostile forces the last thing any sane nation would do would be to attack their closest ally.


The crew of the Liberty are/were conspiracy theorist whackjobs?

fark you, dude.
 
2013-05-05 02:01:47 AM

xcv: Infernalist: The attack on the Liberty was 'called' accidental, but the evidence for it being a deliberate attack is considerable. Look it up.

Israel attacked the Liberty with both air craft and naval vessels in a coordinated attack that lasted for a good long while.

So, yeah. Nice guys, those Israelis. Real solid dependable allies.

Just like the time the US strafed the shiat out of that Canadian convoy despite having the most modern air command and intelligence gathering force in military history. Or when the US smart-bombed that Chinese embassy, cause all those embassies look alike or something.


Notice the part where I mentioned that the Israeli attack on the Liberty went on for a considerable amount of time.

It wasn't a single torpedo or strafing or bombing run.  It was a sustained attack that went on for a bit while the Liberty crew frantically radioed their identity openly.

And then there's the fact that it happend in INTERNATIONAL waters.

But, yeah, I'm sure it was all big misunderstanding.
 
2013-05-05 02:03:55 AM

Infernalist: TuteTibiImperes: Infernalist: 

The attack on the Liberty was 'called' accidental, but the evidence for it being a deliberate attack is considerable.  Look it up.

Israel attacked the Liberty with both air craft and naval vessels in a coordinated attack that lasted for a good long while.

So, yeah.  Nice guys, those Israelis.  Real solid dependable allies.

Conspiracy theorists believe all sorts of things.  Whack job theories aside, there is no motive for Israel to have purposefully fired on a US ship.  Being surrounded by hostile forces the last thing any sane nation would do would be to attack their closest ally.

The crew of the Liberty are/were conspiracy theorist whackjobs?

fark you, dude.


I can't even imagine what a hellish nightmare it must have been to have been aboard that ship when it happened.  That being said, an experience like that can also make you want to believe all sorts of things to try to justify the events.

Both the US and the Israeli investigations ruled it an accident.
 
2013-05-05 02:06:43 AM

TuteTibiImperes: Conspiracy theorists believe all sorts of things.  Whack job theories aside, there is no motive for Israel to have purposefully fired on a US ship.  Being surrounded by hostile forces the last thing any sane nation would do would be to attack their closest ally.


I have a battle fragment from that attack (piece of the ship) framed in my den. It was given to me by one of the ship's surviving officers. Spoke to him at length about it. He believes very firmly the evidence is clear it was the Israelis who attacked the ship.
 
2013-05-05 02:09:58 AM

Tatsuma: • In 1967, Israel defeated a radical Arab, pro-Soviet offensive, which threatened to bring about the collapse of pro-American Arab regimes and disrupt oil supply, thus severely undermining the American standard of living. The U.S. gained valuable military information from analysis of captured Soviet equipment, including SAM-2, SAM-12, Mig-21 aircraft, and Soviet T-54 battle tanks. In fact, Israel gave an entire squadron of MiG-21s to the U.S. which was dubbed the "Top Gun" squadron and used by the U.S. Air and Naval forces for training purposes. Since 1967, Israel transferred captured Soviet weapons systems to the U.S. Pentagon after every conflict: 1967, 1967-70, 1973, 1982, 1990 (Scud remnants from the Gulf War), and 2006 (remnants of Iranian supplied missiles.


Annnnnndd go fark yourself.

So that excuses all the times the last twenty years they've sold our missile and radar technology to the Chinese?  That they spied on us?  That they've sold our secrets to the Soviets?

And I thought you weren't supposed to troll on the sabbath?
 
2013-05-05 02:12:33 AM

Triumph: TuteTibiImperes: Conspiracy theorists believe all sorts of things.  Whack job theories aside, there is no motive for Israel to have purposefully fired on a US ship.  Being surrounded by hostile forces the last thing any sane nation would do would be to attack their closest ally.

I have a battle fragment from that attack (piece of the ship) framed in my den. It was given to me by one of the ship's surviving officers. Spoke to him at length about it. He believes very firmly the evidence is clear it was the Israelis who attacked the ship.


It's pretty clear it was the Israelis that attacked the ship, the question is was the thought process 'Hey, what's up with that ship, that's probably Egyptian, we should attack it' or 'There's one of our allies ships that we've been ordered to attack'.  I just believe that the former is far more likely.
 
2013-05-05 02:17:24 AM
here's another video
/don't know if it has already been posted
 
2013-05-05 02:22:39 AM

TuteTibiImperes: It's pretty clear it was the Israelis that attacked the ship, the question is was the thought process 'Hey, what's up with that ship, that's probably Egyptian, we should attack it' or 'There's one of our allies ships that we've been ordered to attack'.  I just believe that the former is far more likely.


He says the larger U.S. flag was flying clearly and they were attacked for over an hour. The first strike targeted the communications gear and they eventually strung a long wire and got an emergency distress call out on open channels to the rest of the fleet. As soon as they did, the attack finally stopped. The intent was clearly to sink the boat with no survivors, but two torpedoes missed and the one that hit struck a beam. They even napalmed the freaking lifeboats. It's a miracle those guys survived to tell the tale.
 
2013-05-05 02:26:03 AM

Triumph: I have a battle fragment from that attack (piece of the ship) framed in my den. It was given to me by one of the ship's surviving officers. Spoke to him at length about it. He believes very firmly the evidence is clear it was the Israelis who attacked the ship.


Nobody questions that it was the Israelis that attacked the ship. The question is why they attacked, something that has never been satisfactorily answered.
 
2013-05-05 02:40:09 AM
The internet sure do love to hate on Israel.
 
2013-05-05 02:53:19 AM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Nobody questions that it was the Israelis that attacked the ship. The question is why they attacked, something that has never been satisfactorily answered.


A key thing to remember is that all witnesses say the planes attacking were unmarked. People laugh about "false flags," but this was a no flag. My own opinion is that LBJ was a complete psychopath and anything's possible from that administration and who knows what would have happened had the boat sunk. But I know a lot of NSA people take the more charitable view that Israel simply didn't take a liking to being spied on.
 
2013-05-05 02:54:34 AM

Flissss: Pardon, Israel DID threaten to hit Soviet interests in 1973 with the explicit motivation get them involved if Nixon did not supply Israel. That really happened.


And of course you will provide citations, yes? We';ll wait.
 
2013-05-05 02:58:03 AM

Tatsuma: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Unless you're a woman not being escorted by a family member, I guess.

Yeah, again complete bullshiat that has nothing to do with reality.


One in every three Israeli women has been raped or sexually assaulted, according to the latest statistics from the Association of Rape Crisis Centers in Israel (ARCCI).

Organised crime has increased dramatically in Israel since the 1990s and is described by the BBC and the Israeli Police as a "booming industry". The Israeli organised crime groups have extended their activities in foreign countries like the United States, South Africa, and the Netherlands.[1] According to a report by the Israel Police, drug trafficking, trafficking of women for the purpose of commercial sexual exploitation, illicit gambling, pirate filling stations and real estate are the major forms of crime in the country.[2]
In 2002, the Israel Police documented 464,854 criminal files and non-prosecution cases while the number was 484,688 in 2003. This was an increase of 4.5% over 2002.[3]


Israel rounds up African migrants for deportation"They've come here to rape and steal," one Israeli woman shouted at a small but ugly anti-migrant demonstration earlier this month in south Tel Aviv. "We should burn them out, put poison in their food," said an elderly man.
Voluntary deportees will get financial assistance.

"Whoever comes forward will get his grant ... from the moment you come to immigration authorities and say you will pack up, from that moment you will be given an opportunity to pack up, and the grant of 1,000 euros," Yishai said.
 
2013-05-05 03:02:31 AM
http://rt.com/on-air/

They're covering it.
 
2013-05-05 03:03:17 AM

WeenerGord: "They've come here to rape and steal," one Israeli woman shouted at a small but ugly anti-migrant demonstration earlier this month in south Tel Aviv. "We should burn them out, put poison in their food," said an elderly man.


So Israel is just like America, then.
 
2013-05-05 03:05:05 AM

Popcorn Johnny: The internet sure do love to hate on Israel.


Removal of consequences always brings out the worst in people.

/it's how ordinary Germans were able to slaughter Jews without guilt
//they knew what was going on, they just thought their superiors would take the blame for it, so they didn't have to worry
 
2013-05-05 03:10:28 AM

Tatterdemalian: Popcorn Johnny: The internet sure do love to hate on Israel.

Removal of consequences always brings out the worst in people.

/it's how ordinary Germans were able to slaughter Jews without guilt
//they knew what was going on, they just thought their superiors would take the blame for it, so they didn't have to worry


Just like acting in the name of God removes consequences, because God will forgive anything done to his benefit, no matter how many people get lied to and killed, amirite?
 
2013-05-05 03:12:55 AM

Popcorn Johnny: The internet sure do love to hate on Israel.


Israel could probably help that by not popping up in the news with crap like this so ridiculously often. I try to avoid the subject because it's not something i care much about, but they make it awfully hard to ignore them.
 
2013-05-05 03:16:32 AM

Tatsuma: If he'd been the actual son of G-d (not that there is such a thing literally



THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS GOD??!

/OMG!
 
2013-05-05 03:24:01 AM

J. Frank Parnell: crap like this


You have no farking clue why they attacked and that's farking sad. You come here bashing on Israel and don't even take a minute to try and find out why they did what they did, why is that?

News Flash, moron, Israel launched these strikes because Syria was attempting to ship missiles to Hezbollah in Lebanon.
 
2013-05-05 03:27:20 AM

nmemkha: Justified or not, I bet the Muslim countries that surround it are super happy fine with Israel's new aggression.

Talk about your playing with matches in a sea of gasoline ...


Since those surrounding Muslim countries have been threatening to douse Israel with the gasoline for decades, lighting the match while they're still holding it seems prudent.  Especially when that crazy cousin theirs just grabbed the can of fuel.
 
2013-05-05 03:28:26 AM

Popcorn Johnny: J. Frank Parnell: crap like this

You have no farking clue why they attacked and that's farking sad. You come here bashing on Israel and don't even take a minute to try and find out why they did what they did, why is that?

News Flash, moron, Israel launched these strikes because Syria was attempting to ship missiles to Hezbollah in Lebanon.


And Saddam had WMDs which forced the US to attack. You can't just accept everything you hear on the news. Governments are always looking for pretenses.
 
2013-05-05 03:29:04 AM

Popcorn Johnny: utah dude: Popcorn Johnny: Good, blow the fark out of anybody even thinking about threatening you. That's how you do it.

ok, i just added you to my target list. sit tight the ballistic missiles are on their way.

Bring it, I picked up some anti-missile missiles on Craigslist.


Sheeeeeit. I picked up half a dozen working anti-icbm sattelites on backpage. Go ahead. Launch something.
 
2013-05-05 03:32:09 AM

Tatsuma: Well there are rumblings that Assad is about to declare war on Israel.


So a toy poodle just threatened a rottweiler?

Toy poodles have damn sharp teeth which can hurt like hell if you turn your back on the little bastards. So I think it fits perfectly.
 
2013-05-05 03:45:30 AM

Tatsuma: paulseta: Jesus! They must have been "researching" some serious weapons in there.

Fateh-110 missiles (Iranian) destined to Hizbullah, possibly chemical and biological weapons as well.

consortiumnews.com


upload.wikimedia.org
www.globalresearch.ca
 
2013-05-05 03:51:12 AM

Fish_Fight!: Flissss: Pardon, Israel DID threaten to hit Soviet interests in 1973 with the explicit motivation get them involved if Nixon did not supply Israel. That really happened.

And of course you will provide citations, yes? We';ll wait.


Google is your friend but whatever. 
"We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen, before Israel goes under."(Martin Van Creveld, Professor of Military History at Israel's Hebrew University, September 2003)

And they were quite willing:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/06/opinion/the-last-nuclear-moment.ht ml 
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cpc-pubs/farr.htm  
Hersh, Seymour (1991),  The Samson Option: Israel's Nuclear Arsenal and American Foreign Policy, Random House. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Nickel_Grass  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option 


Also during the 1973 war, according to Time Magazine, Israel spotted an American SR-71 Blackbird and was ordered to shoot it down:

".... the planewas spotted by Israeli air defenses and two Phantom jets scrambled to 
intercept it. "I have it on my radar," the Israeli pilot radioed. "It is an 
[SR-71] American Blackbird." Back to him came a direct order from 
a high-ranking Israeli Air Force commander: "Down it." The SR-71, 
flying effortlessly at 85,000 feet, easily outclimbed and outdistanced 
the Israelis and returned to its base with significant readings."

---"Violent Week: The Politics of Death," Time, April 12, 1976. 


Have a nice day.
 
2013-05-05 04:13:39 AM

UNC_Samurai: They apparently hit an ammo dump.  The missile warheads all went up at once.


10 seconds between flash and boom. They were two miles from that. That's a big explosion.
 
2013-05-05 04:19:35 AM

Infernalist: Two, Israel better not think that we're going to jump in there if Syria gets froggy.


It's nothing Israel can't handle and hasn't handled several times before. If Syria can barely handle its own rebels, it's in no position to do anything but provide mirth for the Israeli defense ministry.
 
2013-05-05 04:22:58 AM

doglover: WeenerGord: "They've come here to rape and steal," one Israeli woman shouted at a small but ugly anti-migrant demonstration earlier this month in south Tel Aviv. "We should burn them out, put poison in their food," said an elderly man.

So Israel is just like America, then.



Nobody in America would dare say such things. America gets invaded, the liberals want to give them jobs and citizenship.  There's judges blocking the enforcement of immigration laws already on the books in America.  You didn't get into Japan that easily, did you?

 In this instance, Israel has more balls then America. Just don't pretend that there is no crime in Israel. Google "Israel deport Africans" or "Israel rape statistics" or "Israel Crime" and see what you find. There is a lot going on. It isn't some peaceful paradise where anyone can stroll around at night safely. For instance, since Israel wont let the African migrants have citizenship, they sleep out in parks by the hundreds.
 
2013-05-05 04:24:04 AM

Infernalist: TuteTibiImperes: Infernalist: TuteTibiImperes: Flissss: Not to mention the U.S. would be balls deep in Iran right now if they had their way whileNetanyahu masturbated to the sound of American cargo jets bringing dead kids back to the U.S. to be buried. It's a giant welfare state that just keeps going "Gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme."

Please.  Israel has never been afraid to do their dirty work themselves.  Iran's ties with Russia have kept them safe in the past, and will likely continue to do so in the future, but if worst came to worst and Iran launched an attack on Israel, I don't doubt for a second that the IDF would jump into the fray with or without us to back them up.

At the end of the day the Jewish people have never launched an attack on the US, nor called for our destruction.  While there are plenty of peace loving and respectable Muslims out there, there are also a good number of them also call us the 'Great Satan' and wish for our demise, along with Israel's.

Given that, I'm behind Israel whatever they decide they need to do.

The crew of the U.S.S. Liberty thinks you're full of shiat.

OK, never purposefully launched an attack on the US.  War can be confusing, we've blown some stuff up that we didn't intend to as well.

The attack on the Liberty was 'called' accidental, but the evidence for it being a deliberate attack is considerable.  Look it up.

Israel attacked the Liberty with both air craft and naval vessels in a coordinated attack that lasted for a good long while.

So, yeah.  Nice guys, those Israelis.  Real solid dependable allies.


Nothing about the attack on the USS Liberty is surprising or exceptional when compared to blue-on-blues. If you think the chain of stupidity and ill luck was unbelievable, it's nothing compared to the convergence of facepalms that go into some of our own fark-ups.

It's also perfectly natural for the injured party to think otherwise. Just about every blue-on-blue between countries has the victim been prone to think it was on purpose.
 
2013-05-05 04:54:13 AM

WeenerGord: Nobody in America would dare say such things.


cache.ohinternet.com

That made my day. 7/10
 
2013-05-05 05:20:12 AM
To understand the Middle East,first you have to understand the principles of sodomy, and how that relates to post modern proto medieval societies without lube.
 
2013-05-05 05:27:16 AM

WeenerGord: doglover: WeenerGord: "They've come here to rape and steal," one Israeli woman shouted at a small but ugly anti-migrant demonstration earlier this month in south Tel Aviv. "We should burn them out, put poison in their food," said an elderly man.

So Israel is just like America, then.


Nobody in America would dare say such things. America gets invaded, the liberals want to give them jobs and citizenship.  There's judges blocking the enforcement of immigration laws already on the books in America.  You didn't get into Japan that easily, did you?

 In this instance, Israel has more balls then America. Just don't pretend that there is no crime in Israel. Google "Israel deport Africans" or "Israel rape statistics" or "Israel Crime" and see what you find. There is a lot going on. It isn't some peaceful paradise where anyone can stroll around at night safely. For instance, since Israel wont let the African migrants have citizenship, they sleep out in parks by the hundreds.


LIBSLIBSLIBSLIBSLIBS!

/Mental health. You doesn't haz it.
 
2013-05-05 05:29:09 AM

paulseta: To understand the Middle East,first you have to understand the principles of sodomy, and how that relates to post modern proto medieval societies without lube.


Please, tell us more
 
2013-05-05 06:05:56 AM

Flissss: Fish_Fight!: Flissss: Pardon, Israel DID threaten to hit Soviet interests in 1973 with the explicit motivation get them involved if Nixon did not supply Israel. That really happened.

And of course you will provide citations, yes? We';ll wait.

Google is your friend but whatever. 

Also during the 1973 war, according to Time Magazine, Israel spotted an American SR-71 Blackbird and was ordered to shoot it down:

".... the planewas spotted by Israeli air defenses and two Phantom jets scrambled to 
intercept it. "I have it on my radar," the Israeli pilot radioed. "It is an 
[SR-71] American Blackbird." Back to him came a direct order from 
a high-ranking Israeli Air Force commander: "Down it." The SR-71, 
flying effortlessly at 85,000 feet, easily outclimbed and outdistanced 
the Israelis and returned to its base with significant readings."

---"Violent Week: The Politics of Death," Time, April 12, 1976. 


Have a nice day.


Well hold up Google Cowboy. Not doubting your GoogleFu, or the other guy that has no apparent GoogleFu. But a Blackbird? That plane would have been 300 miles away by the time an IDF jet got off the ground. See it from farking where? Italy? It's Israel, not California. That airspace would have taken what? two minutes to cross? Go ahead and put in the kill order. It's already disappeared.
 
2013-05-05 06:14:43 AM

fanbladesaresharp: Well hold up Google Cowboy. Not doubting your GoogleFu, or the other guy that has no apparent GoogleFu. But a Blackbird? That plane would have been 300 miles away by the time an IDF jet got off the ground. See it from farking where? Italy? It's Israel, not California. That airspace would have taken what? two minutes to cross? Go ahead and put in the kill order. It's already disappeared.


311 miles in 8 and a half minutes is one of the records. St. Louis to Cincinnati in a little over 8.5 minutes. To cross Israel at its narrowest point? About 15 seconds. Its widest? 2 minutes.
 
2013-05-05 06:27:09 AM

Tommy Moo: leevis: Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.

Because the US has such a long history of invading Israel's neighbor's for them?

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.

Historically they've done quite well on their own, so I wouldn't worry too much about that.

picturescrazy: Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.

Syria can barely keep its government intact in the middle of a civil war despite having a lot more firepower. Do you really think in the middle of that Israel would need our help?

They are spending our money every time they drop a bomb, so I wouldn't be so quick to imagine that they are some independent military titan of the Middle East. If the U.S. stopped giving them $3 billion worth of military equipment every year, they would be sitting ducks.


Except they did just fine on their own for quite some time and are now a nuclear power.
 
2013-05-05 07:32:16 AM
W00t!!! Operation Megaphone in full effect here!

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread577913/pg1
 
2013-05-05 07:52:08 AM

Tatsuma: Ghastly: It's the worst kind of corporate welfare because in the end, apart from spreading more misery in the middle east it does nothing to benefit Americans at large. A few thousand people might have jobs but when it's all said and done the only Americans who truly see any benefit from this are the owners of the weapons manufacturers.

Yeah this is not true.


WHAT ISRAEL DOES FOR THE UNITED STATES and much more

Throughout the six decades since the re-establishment of Israel, an often repeated claim in made that "Israel is a draining liability on the United States." This claim is bogus and an examination of the facts hopefully will consign this charge to the trash-heap where it belongs.

Further adding to the problem are statements made by and the conduct of Israel's leftist leaders since 1993 create the false impression that Israeli-American ties constitute a one-way relationship. The impression is given that the U.S. gives and Israel merely receives and thus must constantly bow to "American pressure" as personified by the U.S. State Department.

The truth is that the relationship is a two-way partnership. For example:

• In 1952, as the Cold War got underway, U.S. Army Chief-of-Staff Omar Bradley called for the integration of Israel into the Mediterranean Basin area, in light of the country's location and unique capabilities.

• In 1967, Israel defeated a radical Arab, pro-Soviet offensive, which threatened to bring about the collapse of pro-American Arab regimes and disrupt oil supply, thus severely undermining the American standard of living. The U.S. gained valuable military information from analysis of captured Soviet equipment, including SAM-2, SAM-12, Mig-21 aircraft, and Soviet T-54 battle tanks. In fact, Israel gave an entire squadron of MiG-21s to the U.S. which was dubbed the "Top Gun" squadron and used by the U.S. Air and Naval forces for training purposes. Since 1967, Israel transferred captured Soviet weapons systems to the U.S. Pentagon after ever ...


What have you done for us lately? Not farkin' a lot.
 
2013-05-05 08:13:02 AM
"Israeli warplanes bombed ..."

Would that better be "Israel bombed ..."? Israel doesn't use Boeing 747s or Cessnas to deliver bombs, do they?
 
2013-05-05 08:22:29 AM

Tatsuma: utah dude: Jesus only dropped the f-bomb when he was cleaning out the temple.

If he'd been the actual son of G-d (not that there is such a thing literally, ch"vs), he might have remembered that, oh you know, G-d himself ordered what was happening in the Temple.


God's an arsehole.
 
2013-05-05 08:48:03 AM

Popcorn Johnny: The internet sure do love to hate on Israel.


Seems to me the internet hates everybody, all the time...
 
2013-05-05 08:56:33 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Obama: "if Syria uses chemical weapons, we're going to fark their shiat up"

Breaking news: Syria has used chemical weapons.

Obama: "look at that duck"


I think his original "red line" statement was a mistake.  As long as Syria doesn't use WMD on anyone else, sorry, but let them kill each other.  Assad's no prize, but I haven't seen anything good about the rebel factions, so I'm FINE with Obama keeping us out of that mess, even at the "cost" of walking back his own statements, or "losing face"...screw that BS.

/sorry for any innocents caught in the crossfire, but intervening in the ME isn't really something we're good at...
//get the UN to hire as as world police, AND back us up, then we'll talk
 
2013-05-05 08:59:49 AM

iq_in_binary: That's a load of bullshiat right there.


This
 
2013-05-05 09:08:07 AM

Tatsuma: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Unless you're a woman not being escorted by a family member, I guess.

Yeah, again complete bullshiat that has nothing to do with reality.


Oh, is Tatsuma  lying about Isreal again?  Is it tomorrow already?

I miss the good old days when Tats was mostly honest.
 
2013-05-05 09:10:22 AM
What happened with the USS Liberty has been clearly established: A tragical error in the midst of a war on all fronts for Israel.

Sometimes, bad things happen in the fog of war, and Israel had no intentions to strike an American vessel, much less sink it. The only people who hold this today should be regarded as those who say that the Boston Bombings and the Sandy Hook massacres were faked by the federal government and crisis actors pretended to be the dead/injured.
 
2013-05-05 09:10:51 AM

Tatsuma: Adolf Oliver Nipples: I suppose our danger threshold is very different. There's no danger for me, but for my son? Oh hell no. I cringe when he crosses the street.

I can understand, but yeah I'm just saying: Israel is safer for your son than even crossing the street.


For your SON, yes.

For your DAUGHTER, not so much.
 
2013-05-05 09:13:04 AM

Philip Francis Queeg: Tatsuma: Somacandra: All the macho military assholes on all sides there love dead civilian babies. They spray their jockey shorts on it. When it happens to themselves they feel "justified" and when it happens to the other side its "richly deserved."

This is bullshiat, you don't ever see Israelis dancing in the street and distributing sweets where there are news that children have been killed.

That's a farking disgusting assertion.

Hmm, I seem to recall a certain Israeli farker responding to the deaths of a planeload of civilians with this image...


[www.gambooge.net image 625x415]


Yeah, I remember that, too.  But I assumed that that certain Israeli farker would lie about it later, and lo and behold, here he is lying about it.
 
2013-05-05 09:15:34 AM

OgreMagi: So a toy poodle just threatened a rottweiler?

Toy poodles have damn sharp teeth which can hurt like hell if you turn your back on the little bastards. So I think it fits perfectly.


And the situation can also be resolved by one swift kick. The only weapon the Syrian regime could use against Israel would be Hizbullah, and right now Hizbullah is way too busy repressing Syrian civilians and fighting alongside the regime to open a front against Israel.
 
2013-05-05 09:27:29 AM

Tatsuma: Ghastly: It's the worst kind of corporate welfare because in the end, apart from spreading more misery in the middle east it does nothing to benefit Americans at large. A few thousand people might have jobs but when it's all said and done the only Americans who truly see any benefit from this are the owners of the weapons manufacturers.

Yeah this is not true.



It's funny how many of Tatsuma's posts consist of claiming what someone else said is "not true" or "bullshiat" or whatever.  It's Freudian projection at its finest.

The truth is that the relationship is a two-way partnership. For example:

• In 1952, as the Cold War got underway, U.S. Army Chief-of-Staff Omar Bradley called for the integration of Israel into the Mediterranean Basin area, in light of the country's location and unique capabilities.

• In 1967, Israel defeated a radical Arab, pro-Soviet offensive, which threatened to bring about the collapse of pro-American Arab regimes and disrupt oil supply, thus severely undermining the American standard of living. The U.S. gained valuable military information from analysis of captured Soviet equipment, including SAM-2, SAM-12, Mig-21 aircraft, and Soviet T-54 battle tanks. In fact, Israel gave an entire squadron of MiG-21s to the U.S. which was dubbed the "Top Gun" squadron and used by the U.S. Air and Naval forces for training purposes. Since 1967, Israel transferred captured Soviet weapons systems to the U.S. Pentagon after ever ...



Normally, I'd point out that these are bald assertions without any links or references to back them up.  But in this case perhaps we should merely be grateful that he isn't wasting more of our time by coming up with links someone would have to follow, read, and then debunk.

Sadly, I don't have all day to refute all his crap, so to save myself and everyone else time, I'll just give a blanket warning: if it has to do with Judaism or Isreal, it's pretty safe to assume anything Tatsuma is a baldface lie.

Honestly, Tatsuma, isn't lying a sin?  Doesn't it go against the Ten Commandments?  Do you not believe that there's a God in Heaven that notices and will punish you someday?  Are you just pretending to have faith, or are you really that poor a Jew?
 
2013-05-05 09:32:32 AM

ciberido: Tatsuma: Ghastly: It's the worst kind of corporate welfare because in the end, apart from spreading more misery in the middle east it does nothing to benefit Americans at large. A few thousand people might have jobs but when it's all said and done the only Americans who truly see any benefit from this are the owners of the weapons manufacturers.

Yeah this is not true.


It's funny how many of Tatsuma's posts consist of claiming what someone else said is "not true" or "bullshiat" or whatever.  It's Freudian projection at its finest.

The truth is that the relationship is a two-way partnership. For example:

• In 1952, as the Cold War got underway, U.S. Army Chief-of-Staff Omar Bradley called for the integration of Israel into the Mediterranean Basin area, in light of the country's location and unique capabilities.

• In 1967, Israel defeated a radical Arab, pro-Soviet offensive, which threatened to bring about the collapse of pro-American Arab regimes and disrupt oil supply, thus severely undermining the American standard of living. The U.S. gained valuable military information from analysis of captured Soviet equipment, including SAM-2, SAM-12, Mig-21 aircraft, and Soviet T-54 battle tanks. In fact, Israel gave an entire squadron of MiG-21s to the U.S. which was dubbed the "Top Gun" squadron and used by the U.S. Air and Naval forces for training purposes. Since 1967, Israel transferred captured Soviet weapons systems to the U.S. Pentagon after ever ...


Normally, I'd point out that these are bald assertions without any links or references to back them up.  But in this case perhaps we should merely be grateful that he isn't wasting more of our time by coming up with links someone would have to follow, read, and then debunk.

Sadly, I don't have all day to refute all his crap, so to save myself and everyone else time, I'll just give a blanket warning: if it has to do with Judaism or Isreal, it's pretty safe to assume anything Tatsuma is a baldface lie.

Honestly, Ta ...


Orthodox Jews don't believe in a heaven or an afterlife, just so you know.

I know I'm probably jumping to quickly to assume he's Orthodox, but given his seemingly mindless urge to rather vigorously diddle his uvula with Isreal's schmuck, the assumption is pretty safe.
 
2013-05-05 09:34:58 AM

ciberido: Tatsuma: Ghastly: It's the worst kind of corporate welfare because in the end, apart from spreading more misery in the middle east it does nothing to benefit Americans at large. A few thousand people might have jobs but when it's all said and done the only Americans who truly see any benefit from this are the owners of the weapons manufacturers.

Yeah this is not true.


It's funny how many of Tatsuma's posts consist of claiming what someone else said is "not true" or "bullshiat" or whatever.  It's Freudian projection at its finest.

The truth is that the relationship is a two-way partnership. For example:

• In 1952, as the Cold War got underway, U.S. Army Chief-of-Staff Omar Bradley called for the integration of Israel into the Mediterranean Basin area, in light of the country's location and unique capabilities.

• In 1967, Israel defeated a radical Arab, pro-Soviet offensive, which threatened to bring about the collapse of pro-American Arab regimes and disrupt oil supply, thus severely undermining the American standard of living. The U.S. gained valuable military information from analysis of captured Soviet equipment, including SAM-2, SAM-12, Mig-21 aircraft, and Soviet T-54 battle tanks. In fact, Israel gave an entire squadron of MiG-21s to the U.S. which was dubbed the "Top Gun" squadron and used by the U.S. Air and Naval forces for training purposes. Since 1967, Israel transferred captured Soviet weapons systems to the U.S. Pentagon after ever ...


Normally, I'd point out that these are bald assertions without any links or references to back them up.  But in this case perhaps we should merely be grateful that he isn't wasting more of our time by coming up with links someone would have to follow, read, and then debunk.

Sadly, I don't have all day to refute all his crap, so to save myself and everyone else time, I'll just give a blanket warning: if it has to do with Judaism or Isreal, it's pretty safe to assume anything Tatsuma is a baldface lie.

Honestly, Ta ...


I'm probably going to hell for defending Tatsuma, but... you *could* refute some of it. Vague assertions and appeals to hatred of Israel don't help your position.
 
2013-05-05 09:36:21 AM

iq_in_binary: Orthodox Jews don't believe in a heaven or an afterlife, just so you know.

I know I'm probably jumping to quickly to assume he's Orthodox, but given his seemingly mindless urge to rather vigorously diddle his uvula with Isreal's schmuck, the assumption is pretty safe.


Uh, yes we do. In fact it's a very central part of Judaism and has always been. It's one of the very few principles of faith that we, as Jews, have to believe in to be considered part of klal Yisrael.

As for the post you quoted from a user I can't read otherwise, I love the fact that he knows everything I said is false, he just doesn't want to spend the time reading about it, learning and then posting links to debunk it. So he actually has no idea but knows deep down that I'm lying.
 
2013-05-05 09:37:19 AM

Parmenius: I'm probably going to hell for defending Tatsuma, but... you *could* refute some of it. Vague assertions and appeals to hatred of Israel don't help your position.


No see if you say 'Everything Tats says about X is false' it magically becomes fact.
 
2013-05-05 09:39:04 AM

Tatsuma: Parmenius: I'm probably going to hell for defending Tatsuma, but... you *could* refute some of it. Vague assertions and appeals to hatred of Israel don't help your position.

No see if you say 'Everything Tats says about X is false' it magically becomes fact.


Passive-aggressing me won't help your position either. Care to back up any of your claims on the cash value of intelligence?
 
2013-05-05 09:41:38 AM

Tatsuma: Parmenius: I'm probably going to hell for defending Tatsuma, but... you *could* refute some of it. Vague assertions and appeals to hatred of Israel don't help your position.

No see if you say 'Everything Tats says about X is false' it magically becomes fact.


You really should be ashamed of yourself.
 
2013-05-05 09:43:15 AM

Parmenius: Passive-aggressing me won't help your position either. Care to back up any of your claims on the cash value of intelligence?


Here is General Keegan saying that Israel is worth 'five CIAs

Everything I posted is part of public record and can be easily verified.
 
2013-05-05 09:48:08 AM

Tatsuma: Here is General Keegan saying that Israel is worth 'five CIAs


General: Israelis exaggerated Iraq threat
JERUSALEM (AP) - Israeli intelligence overplayed the threat posed by Iraq and reinforced the U.S. and British assessment that Saddam Hussein had large amounts of weapons of mass destruction, a retired Israeli general said Thursday.
 
2013-05-05 09:48:59 AM
So now we have hit that inevitable part of the thread where it stops being about the issue and becomes about Tatsuma. Time to bail.
 
2013-05-05 09:50:12 AM
ciberido: Sadly, I don't have all day to refute all his crap, so to save myself and everyone else time, I'll just give a blanket warning: if it has to do with Judaism or Isreal, it's pretty safe to assume anything Tatsuma is a baldface lie.

Parmenius: I'm probably going to hell for defending Tatsuma, but... you *could* refute some of it. Vague assertions and appeals to hatred of Israel don't help your position.

1. I've already refuted claims Tatsuma made, in this thread an others.
2. He made the assertion; the burden is on him to support his claims, not on me to disprove every single thing he says.
3. "Appeals to hated of Isreal"?  Yeah, fark that straw-man.  I don't hate Isreal, nor have I advocated any sort of anti-Isreal policy.  The only two things I hate (that are relevant to this thread, anyway) are misogyny and dishonesty.
4. Not that you asked, but Tatsuma grinds my gears because he combines extreme dishonesty with projection (calling everything he disagrees with a lie) and defensive of misogyny (as practiced by ultra-Orthodox Jews).
 
2013-05-05 09:51:57 AM

ciberido: Normally, I'd point out that these are bald assertions without any links or references to back them up.  But in this case perhaps we should merely be grateful that he isn't wasting more of our time by coming up with links someone would have to follow, read, and then debunk


Lets run it through google.  Knowing Tatsuma, its been all debunked, and he comes right back later with more lies
 
2013-05-05 09:52:10 AM

people: General: Israelis exaggerated Iraq threat


Yeah one retired guy who never saw the classified material that was going around said that, while the rest of the experts said that he was wrong and exaggerating his claims.

Clearly that's a proof that the claims of Keegan about Israel in the 80s were wrong, and Mondale is now President.
 
2013-05-05 09:53:17 AM

Ghastly: If the US actually practiced what it preached there'd be very few people pissed with them and Wahabism wouldn't have taken hold in the Muslim world to begin with.


But we WANT Wahhabism to take hold in the Muslim world.  The best way to destroy Islam is to promote its most ignorant, violent, and backward members.
 
2013-05-05 09:53:33 AM

gilgigamesh: So now we have hit that inevitable part of the thread where it stops being about the issue and becomes about Tatsuma. Time to bail.


.... do you ever have anything of value to contribute to these threads, outside of coming in, sniping at me with a snide remark, then walking away?

people: Lets run it through google. Knowing Tatsuma, its been all debunked, and he comes right back later with more lies


Your own link debunked the point you were trying to make.
 
2013-05-05 09:55:54 AM

Tatsuma: Yeah one retired guy


Wait?  Are you looking for more sources? Thats about the easiest thing to accomplish.

Tatsuma: about Israel in the 80s were wrong


You!  You are citing crap thats 30-50 years old!
 
2013-05-05 10:00:21 AM

mayIFark: So, let me get this straight, Hamas shoots rockets at random targets in Israel - Terrorism (Agreed).
Israel shoots even more powerful stuff at random targets all over the middle east - Not Terrorism (What the fark?)


How the fark is a targeted strike on a munitions storage facility a "random" target?
 
2013-05-05 10:04:05 AM

Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.


Like America has done.... umm... ever?
 
2013-05-05 10:07:01 AM

people: Wait? Are you looking for more sources? Thats about the easiest thing to accomplish.


Let me give you an example of what you did:

Former Senator: US Government knew about 9/11 and allowed it to happen

Clearly the fact that one person said so when the rest of the country says that this person is completely wrong does not invalidate those claims but in fact should be used as a reliable gage for the truth.
 
2013-05-05 10:09:55 AM

Ontos: Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.

Like America has done.... umm... ever?


1973 is the clearest example of US direct involvement. The US shipped over tens of thousands of tons of material in in that and engaged in some very hairy and aggressive diplomacy.
 
2013-05-05 10:14:11 AM

Tatsuma: one person


Ugh. This is your argument.  You are taking my exhaustion over your limitless supply of propaganda as some sort of limit to sources I can provide.


Keep complaining, and Ill just end up googling it and showing where you have had this shown directly to you.



Israeli pressure against US arms sales, like the blocked f-15 sales.
The selling of US military secrets and weapons to China.
The unique circumstances where Israel alone is uniquely treated like American companies for purposes of U.S. defense procurement
Israeli military funding is almost immediately into an interest-bearing account with the Federal Reserve Bank where this money is used to pay down earlier Israeli non-guaranteed loans from the United States
The other part of this assistance package is that about 25 percent of military aid can be used to buy arms from Israeli companies - a privilege no one else has.
U.S. War Reserves Stocks for Allies that israel depleted and drew international outrage for shelling civillians with those munitions. This stockpile is measured in over a billion dollars.
Billions of dollars in "excess" equipment
We havent even got into the disasters of AIPAC pushed legislation.


Now scamper off.
 
2013-05-05 10:23:12 AM

people: Israeli pressure against US arms sales, like the blocked f-15 sales.


And yet you don't show whether or not that pressure lead anywhere, or whether there was a loss from it.

people: The selling of US military secrets and weapons to China.


Israel never did that, those rumors were debunked.

The unique circumstances where Israel alone is uniquely treated like American companies for purposes of U.S. defense procurement.

Please provide a link that Israel is the only country to benefit of such an arrangement. Oh and when Israel does, it's because that military aid that is given to Israel is earmarked in a way that it can only be spent on American-made weapons by the way.

Israeli military funding is almost immediately into an interest-bearing account with the Federal Reserve Bank where this money is used to pay down earlier Israeli non-guaranteed loans from the United States

Israel has paid back all of its loans to the United States and does not receive any loans anymore.

The other part of this assistance package is that about 25 percent of military aid can be used to buy arms from Israeli companies - a privilege no one else has.

75% has to be bought from American companies (something you were complaining that no one else can do, now you're claiming that Israel being able to spend a quarter of it on Israeli weapons is something no one else can do). Also, provide a citation that Israel is the only country allowed to buy homemade weapons with US money.

U.S. War Reserves Stocks for Allies that israel depleted and drew international outrage for shelling civillians with those munitions. This stockpile is measured in over a billion dollars.

Again, link for proof, and how did that cost anything extra to America when that reserve exists specifically to be used?

Billions of dollars in "excess" equipment

How did that coast America in any way?

We havent even got into the disasters of AIPAC pushed legislation.


So basically I gave an example of concrete events and things that Israel did for America, and to 'debunk' them you made a list of things that has nothing to do with it and debunked exactly nothing?
 
2013-05-05 10:26:25 AM

people: 1973 is the clearest example of US direct involvement. The US shipped over tens of thousands of tons of material in in that and engaged in some very hairy and aggressive diplomacy.


So sending weapons (that Israel had to foot the bill for) is stepping in and waging the war for Israel?

Let's not forget that the bulk of the weapons arrived in Israel after the war.Not only that, but even the material that arrived during the war arrived while Israel was deeply into Syria and Egypt and the war had already been won at that point, the question was if Israel would go as far as destroying both the Egyptian and Syrian regime.

So yeah, clearest example.
 
2013-05-05 10:26:52 AM
Rice: Defending Israel takes much of her U.N. time
April 23, 2013

WASHINGTON (JTA) -- Susan Rice said a major part of her work as U.S. ambassador to the United Nations is defending Israel's legitimacy.
 "It's a huge part of my work to the United Nations," Rice said Sunday evening


---

Thanks!
 
2013-05-05 10:30:13 AM

people: Ontos: Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.

Like America has done.... umm... ever?

1973 is the clearest example of US direct involvement. The US shipped over tens of thousands of tons of material in in that and engaged in some very hairy and aggressive diplomacy.


Diplomacy and material support is still a far cry from "fight their war for them".

Words mean things.
 
2013-05-05 10:32:55 AM
Always a pleasure watching someone lie without shame, knowing that the more he does it, the wiser other people get to it.
 
2013-05-05 10:36:02 AM

Tatsuma: gilgigamesh: So now we have hit that inevitable part of the thread where it stops being about the issue and becomes about Tatsuma. Time to bail.

.... do you ever have anything of value to contribute to these threads, outside of coming in, sniping at me with a snide remark, then walking away?


Your honor, I rest my case.

Seriously though, I think you are thinking of someone else. We've had discussions before about all sorts of things. You have a great taste in music.

And I often agree with you. For instance, I agree with you about what this thread was originally about: that its looking like Israel's action in Syria was a legitimate preemptive strike on a military target.

It is also true that these threads always become about you. Or more specifically, about Israel in the abstract, with you on one side and a bunch of people yelling at you on the other. That isn't entirely your fault, because there are frankly a lot of antisemitic dickbags on Fark who dump on you because you are a Jew who defends Israel. But take a look at this thread. It turned from the topic to a discussion about Israel's treatment of African immigrants, the attack on the USS Liberty 40 years ago, foreign aid to Israel, and pretty much everything but the topic. Again, not entirely your fault. But it happens a lot when you are in these Israel threads.

Just some food for thought.
 
2013-05-05 10:37:51 AM

Are you Dougie Feith, because you might be the dumbest person alive.

Tatsuma: The selling of US military secrets and weapons to China.

Israel never did that, those rumors were debunked.



Tatsuma Lie #1

The United States has imposed sanctions on Israel after a dispute over Israel's sale of drones - unmanned aerial vehicles - to China, according to news reports.
The US has suspended co-operation on several development projects and frozen delivery of night-vision equipment. 2005

Israel has sold advanced military technology to China for more than a decade and is moving to expand its cooperation with Beijing, says R. James Woolsey, the Director of Central Intelligence. 1993

U.S. Suspends Cooperation With Israel on Fighter Jet
Ire at Jerusalem's Arms Deals With China 2005

Tatsuma: Please provide a link that Israel is the only country to benefit of such an arrangement.



In addition, the military funding for Israel is handled differently than it is for other countries. Israel's $3 billion is put almost immediately into an interest-bearing account with the Federal Reserve Bank. The interest, collected by Israel on its military aid balance, is used to pay down debt from earlier Israeli non-guaranteed loans from the United States.

Another unique aspect of the assistance package is that about 25 percent of it can be used to buy arms from Israeli companies. No other country has that privilege, according to a September 2010 CRS report. 2011

Tatsuma: Again, link for proof, and how did that cost anything extra to America when that reserve exists specifically to be used?


It costs in money, and it costs in diplomatic problems.

Tatsuma: So basically I gave an example of concrete events and things that Israel did for America post propaganda on fark

 
2013-05-05 10:40:43 AM

Ontos: Diplomacy and material support is still a far cry from "fight their war for them".

Words mean things.


1973 was huge

The US paid, dearly, as the Arabs enacted their oil embargo in direct response to US aid to Israel for 1973.

You are going to have a tough time saying the US did not fight for Israel in 1973.   The US paid militarily, diplomatically, and the US paid on the homefront.
 
2013-05-05 10:42:10 AM
Just the economic impact of the US defense of Israel for 1973 is something just so casually forgotten about in that list of propaganda above, too.
 
2013-05-05 10:43:34 AM

gilgigamesh: Seriously though, I think you are thinking of someone else. We've had discussions before about all sorts of things. You have a great taste in music.


shiat sorry I read something else entirely.

I thought you were accusing me of making the thread about me and bailing. I was wondering what the fark you were talking about. I was genuinely confused as to why you would say something like that, since I don't really recall ever talking to you much in the Israel threads, though we have indeed discussed a lot about music and other topics in the past. I thought you'd just came in to give me a cheap shot and then left, so that's why I said that.

Let me reiterate my apology: so very sorry, I read that way too quickly and thought that maybe over the last two years you'd crossed over to the lazy and passive-aggressive side for some reason. (Notice that the post right above yours I just quoted is from another user who just usually comes in threads to post two or three times about me without ever actually contributing to anything else)

I read too fast and reacted like an ass, so let me apologize for the third time.

gilgigamesh: It is also true that these threads always become about you. Or more specifically, about Israel in the abstract, with you on one side and a bunch of people yelling at you on the other. That isn't entirely your fault, because there are frankly a lot of antisemitic dickbags on Fark who dump on you because you are a Jew who defends Israel. But take a look at this thread. It turned from the topic to a discussion about Israel's treatment of African immigrants, the attack on the USS Liberty 40 years ago, foreign aid to Israel, and pretty much everything but the topic. Again, not entirely your fault. But it happens a lot when you are in these Israel threads.

Just some food for thought.


Yeah I know. Sometimes I feel like using an alt would be helpful as it might help keeping things on topics, but I've never used those and don't plan to start using them anytime soon either.
 
2013-05-05 10:46:08 AM
The OPEC Oil Embargo, which lasted from October 1973 to March 1974, posed a major threat to the U.S. economy. Moreover, the Nixon Administration's efforts to address the effects of the embargo ultimately presented the United States with many foreign policy challenges.

During the October 1973 Arab-Israeli War, the Arab members of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) announced an embargo against the United States in response to the U.S. decision to re-supply the Israeli military during the war. OPEC members also extended the embargo to other countries that supported Israel. The embargo both banned petroleum exports to the targeted nations and introduced cuts in oil production. Several years of negotiations between oil producing nations and oil companies had already destabilized a decades-old system of oil pricing, and thus the OPEC embargo was particularly effective.
 
2013-05-05 10:48:32 AM

Tatsuma: I read too fast and reacted like an ass, so let me apologize for the third time.


No need to apologize at all. As I noted, these threads tend to turn into a barfight. If I walk into one, I'm not going to biatch if someone hits me over the head with a chair by mistake.
 
2013-05-05 10:49:25 AM

people: The United States has imposed sanctions on Israel after a dispute over Israel's sale of drones - unmanned aerial vehicles - to China, according to news reports.
The US has suspended co-operation on several development projects and frozen delivery of night-vision equipment. 2005


And later it was revealed that Israel had in fact acted according the the guidelines set forth by the US and did nothing wrong.

people: Israel has sold advanced military technology to China for more than a decade and is moving to expand its cooperation with Beijing, says R. James Woolsey, the Director of Central Intelligence. 1993


From the last line of the article:

An Israeli diplomat, who spoke on condition of anonymity, noted that the four-paragraph C.I.A. statement to the committee did not say the Israelis had been re-exporting American technology.

Israel was not selling US secrets or technology according to your very 'proof' that I was lying.

people: U.S. Suspends Cooperation With Israel on Fighter Jet
Ire at Jerusalem's Arms Deals With China 2005


Quoting the same story that turned out wrong = twice the proofs?

people: In addition, the military funding for Israel is handled differently than it is for other countries. Israel's $3 billion is put almost immediately into an interest-bearing account with the Federal Reserve Bank. The interest, collected by Israel on its military aid balance, is used to pay down debt from earlier Israeli non-guaranteed loans from the United States.

Another unique aspect of the assistance package is that about 25 percent of it can be used to buy arms from Israeli companies. No other country has that privilege, according to a September 2010 CRS report. 2011


So one guy is claiming this, but even if true, how does this disprove anything in my original post? It merely says that Israel has a better deal on military aid than other countries, it's not robbing America of anything.

So you really have debunked nothing I posted so far, and posted links that debunked your own points. Well played, people, well played.
 
2013-05-05 10:51:30 AM

Then just go google things like


aipac + oil + sanctions


You'll get a lot of hits for the recent push for sanctions.  Don't forget about the 90's!  AIPAC rammed through sanctions on Iran, pissing off all sorts of oil companies.  Oil companies learned their lesson after that

And the oil companies, still angry at AIPAC for its role in creating ILSA and blocking the Iran-Conoco deal, realized that they'd be better off cooperating with the group than confronting it.

thats about all you need

 
2013-05-05 10:54:48 AM

gilgigamesh: No need to apologize at all. As I noted, these threads tend to turn into a barfight. If I walk into one, I'm not going to biatch if someone hits me over the head with a chair by mistake.


Fair enough.

As I said earlier, in the fog of war, chances of friendly fire jump through the roof
 
2013-05-05 11:00:32 AM

Tatsuma: And later it was revealed that Israel had in fact acted according the the guidelines set forth by the US and did nothing wrong.


You are going to have to do a little better than that, liar.

Theres decades of this.   Here you go.  Lets see those citations rebutting all of them

US 'anger' at Israel weapons sale  2004

U.S. Arms Sales to Israel End Up In China, Iraq
Israel is China's second largest supplier of arms. Coincidentally, the newest addition to the Chinese air force, the F-10 multi-role fighter, is an almost identical version of the Lavi (Lion). The Lavi was a joint Israeli-American design based upon the F-16 for manufacture in Israel, but financed mostly with American aid. Plagued by cost overruns, it was canceled in 1987, but not before the U.S. spent $1.5 billion on the project.

Investigator Says Israel Illegally Sold U.s. Weapons, Technology 1992Israel Rebuffs U.S. Demand To Cancel China Arms Deal 2000DESPITE STRONG PUBLIC opposition from the United States, Israel is proceeding with the sale to China of an advanced airborne early-warning (AEW) radar system, which U.S. officials warn could affect the strategic balance between China and Taiwan. After April meetings with Defense Secretary William Cohen and President Bill Clinton, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak would say only that Israel would continue discussions on the deal with the United States.

In a 1996 deal with China worth approximately $1 billion, Israel agreed to equip four Russian-supplied aircraft with the Phalcon system, a state-of-the-art, long-range radar capable of simultaneously tracking multiple airborne and surface targets. U.S. government officials believe, and Israeli officials insist, that no U.S. technology is involved.


Israeli Arms Technology Aids China : Military: U.S. officials say the growing cooperation undercuts sanctions imposed after Beijing crushed protests. Washington has objected.   1990|JIM MANN |  TIMES STAFF WRITERWASHINGTON - In the year since the Bush Administration blocked U.S. military sales to China after the crushing of democracy protests at Tian An Men Square, Israel has emerged as the most important foreign supplier of advanced military technology to China, officials in the Bush Administration and Congress say.

According to these sources, Israel increasingly is providing China with military technology that China is unable to obtain from the United States. Some U.S. defense specialists say that Israel may be supplying China with engine technology to build a new combat jet fighter.
 
2013-05-05 11:03:09 AM
 
2013-05-05 11:08:26 AM

people: US 'anger' at Israel weapons sale 2004


Third time you link to the same story. You are getting really really desperate aren't you?

people: U.S. Arms Sales to Israel End Up In China, Iraq


CommonDreams? Come on.

people: 1990|


Israel was not selling either US weapons or secrets to China

people: 1992I


Unnamed country doing this, only speculation and Israel saying they were not doing what one person accused them of doing.


Seriously, that's the best you got?
 
2013-05-05 11:09:46 AM
Israel's role in China's new warplane
By David Isenberg

The recent unveiling (sort of) of China's first domestically designed (sort of) fighter jet was the culmination of a long saga of international military-hardware wheeling and dealing that has seen US-designed or -funded high-tech weaponry fall into the hands of potential military rivals.
..
"Israel ranks second only to Russia as a weapons-system provider to China and as a conduit for sophisticated military technology, followed by France and Germany," stated a report this year by the US-China Security Review Commission, a panel established by Congress to examine security and economic relations between the two countries. "Recent upgrades in target acquisition and fire control, probably provided by Israeli weapons specialists, have enhanced the capabilities of the older guided missile destroyers and frigates" in the Chinese navy's inventory, it said.

The commission cited Israel as a supplier to Beijing of radar systems, optical and telecommunications equipment, drones and flight simulators.

...

The J-10 is hardly the only result of Israeli-Chinese military cooperation. For example, the Chinese F-8, the same type of plane that collided with the US reconnaissance plane last year, is armed with Israeli Python-3 missiles. The Python, adapted from the US ALM-9L Sidewinder missile, has a high degree of US technology. Ironically for Israel, China apparently sold its version of Python-3, called the PL-8, to Iraq.
 
2013-05-05 11:10:42 AM

Tatsuma: that's the best you got?


If you skip over the stuff that shows you to be a liar.
 
2013-05-05 11:12:06 AM
There's a huge difference between Israel selling its own weapons and technology to China versus unauthorized sales of US weapons, technology and secrets. I certainly don't deny that the former happens, but the former is also legal and permitted by the US, even though they weren't happy about it from time to time.
 
2013-05-05 11:13:47 AM

people: By David Isenberg


It also says that Germany and France sell weapons to China. So does Israel. That's not in question. What is in question is:

Does Israel sell US weapons and secrets to China against US wishes and the answer is no.
 
2013-05-05 11:14:47 AM
Arms apology
Jerusalem, June 19(Reuters): Israel publicly apologised to the US today over arms exports to China that have drawn criticism from Washington and strained US-Israeli security ties.

"It is impossible to hide the crisis between Israel and the United States with regard to the security industries. We are doing everything possible to put it behind us," Israeli foreign minister Silvan Shalom said on Israel Radio.

The dispute centres on Israel's sale of Harpy attack drones and other advanced technology to China that the Pentagon fears could tilt the balance of power and make it difficult to defend Taiwan, which Beijing deems a renegade province.

"If things were done that were not acceptable to the Americans then we are sorry but these things were done with the utmost innocence," Shalom said.
 
2013-05-05 11:16:04 AM

Tatsuma: Does Israel sell US weapons and secrets to China against US wishes and the answer is no.


Israel openly apologized for it.

Sometimes I wonder if you are a skinhead at home, making these terrible arguments on purpose.
 
2013-05-05 11:17:25 AM
You are the walking embodiment of poes law.

You have to take a minute and go, are you a fundie settler, or trying to be a parody of one.

I'm going with you are a fundie, but you do have to take a moment when your arguments are this bad.
 
2013-05-05 11:18:35 AM

people: Arms apology


The IAI Harpy is an Israeli-made drone, and the other weapons that were sold were also homemade Israeli products, not US weapons or US secrets.

Seriously reaching at straws.
 
2013-05-05 11:19:58 AM

people: Israel openly apologized for it.


Israel openly apologized for selling Israeli weapons to China, not for selling US weapons and US secrets, which has been your baseless contention from the beginning.

I've stated multiple times that yes indeed Israel does sell its own weapons to China, much like France, Germany, the UK, etc...
 
2013-05-05 11:25:21 AM

Tatsuma: The IAI Harpy is an Israeli-made drone


The problem was, as stated, the Harpy contains US tech.    Frankly, how the flip can you have indigenous tech in Israel with so much draw from the US.

Tatsuma: Israeli weapons


So conveniently leaving out the  The J-10 is hardly the only result of Israeli-Chinese military cooperation. For example, the Chinese F-8, the same type of plane that collided with the US reconnaissance plane last year, is armed with Israeli Python-3 missiles. The Python, adapted from the US ALM-9L Sidewinder missile, has a high degree of US technology. Ironically for Israel, China apparently sold its version of Python-3, called the PL-8, to Iraq.
 
2013-05-05 11:26:27 AM

Tatsuma: Israel does sell its own weapons made wuth US technology and US weapons to China


Fixed for you.
Thanks, ally.
 
2013-05-05 11:28:11 AM

people: The problem was, as stated, the Harpy contains US tech. Frankly, how the flip can you have indigenous tech in Israel with so much draw from the US.


Modified US tech, and yes, Israel apologized for that. They didn't realize it breached those guidelines and they rectified the situation. At no point were those sales a secret or done in the dark to keep the US from learning about it.

Sometimes, companies and governments fark up, and then take steps to repair their mistakes.

Israel is not taking US tech and secrets, then turning around and selling them to China. A few items sold over the year also happened to have tech in them that was based on US tech and then modified by Israeli companies (very often in joint-R&D) and these slipped through the cracks.
 
2013-05-05 11:31:04 AM
The United States has known about Israeli military sales to China since the 1970s, but had turned a blind eye until the early 1990s.

A joint U.S.-Israeli fighter development program in the 1980s called the Lavi was canceled, but U.S. technology from the program is suspected of ending up in China's new J-10 fighter.

"We started having a problem with Israel in the 1990s, especially after the 1996 Chinese missile threats against Taiwan when we got the feeling that China's ballistic missile technology was modernizing way too fast," said John Tkacik, a former State Department intelligence analyst on China.

While Bill Clinton was president, Israel transferred sensitive radar technology to China, including armed Harpy anti-radar drones that were spotted by U.S. intelligence agencies deployed opposite Taiwan, prompting the Pentagon to argue that Israeli technology might be used against American forces in any defense of the island.

Israel also was accused by the Pentagon and U.S. intelligence agencies of covertly supplying the Patriot anti-missile system technology to China in the early 1990s.

The tension between the United States and Israel boiled over during the Bush administration. Frustrated by Israel's lack of candor over its arms sales to China, Amos Yaron, the director general of Israel's ministry of defense, was at one point barred from entering the Pentagon.

Mr. Herzog said Israel stopped sensitive transfers to China in 2005 and created an office to oversee military exports.

"In the past it so happened that Israel did make exports on its own without consulting with the United States," Mr. Herzog said. "Now the consultation is more important."


Read more:  http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/may/23/us-israeli-defense-te c hnology-collaboration-began-/#ixzz2SQso6Hc9
 
2013-05-05 11:31:41 AM
So you went from 'Israel sells US weapons and tech to China all the time!!!' to 'Well Israel once sold a few different systems that contained modified US tech and apologized for the oversight and promised not to do it again'

Pretty much as accurate as 'The US swoops in to fight wars for Israel!' to 'Well the US used diplomatic tactics and shipped weapons that were more or less not used during the Yom Kippur war'

Well played, again.
 
2013-05-05 11:32:52 AM
Ah yes, CommonDreams, the Washington Times, soon: What Really Happened, Art Bell and the homeless guy in the subway!
 
2013-05-05 11:35:12 AM

Tatsuma: Modified US tech,


OH!


Movement!  How nice!  Perhaps you need to add that in your wall 'o' text next time.

Such an improvement over "Israel never did that [sold US military secrets and weapons to China), those rumors were debunked."
 
2013-05-05 11:35:44 AM
Oh, and by the way the IAI Harpy does not in fact contain US technology.

I thought I wrote that earlier but turns out I didn't.
 
2013-05-05 11:41:22 AM

Tatsuma: the IAI Harpy does not in fact contain US technology.


Thats the Israeli version.  America strongly argues against that.

Israel is hardly hermetically sealed from America regarding drone weapons tech.  It is literally impossible for an Israeli drone to be manufactured 100% free of US tech and assistance.
 
2013-05-05 11:42:27 AM

people: . It is literally impossible for an Israeli drone to be manufactured 100% free of US tech and assistance.


This is complete bullshiat.

And you still have yet to debunk a single item from my list earlier.
 
2013-05-05 11:51:15 AM

Tatsuma: yet to debunk a single item


Are you high?  You just flipped from
saying, grudgingly, after pages and pages of sources

"modified tech"

from bleating that  "Israel never did that [sold US military secrets and weapons to China), those rumors were debunked."

Just getting you to understand the patently obvious to anyone who isnt a mouth-breathing fundamentalist settler took longer than an hour and sources in the double didgits.
 
2013-05-05 11:52:17 AM

people: didgits.


Yeah. theres another D in there.  Its like Upgrayedd and how he needs two "d's"
 
2013-05-05 11:53:40 AM
Way to cut the citation in half and pretend it's about something else.

About on par with the course, considering how... fluid truth is with you.
 
2013-05-05 11:57:30 AM

Tatsuma: fluid truth is with you.


I'm literally laughing and clapping.  This might be the most hilarious thing I've read.

A guy maintaining that his selectively cited lie by omission list 'o' crap wasn't called out for what was selectively chosen.

Bravo! Its better than performance art.
 
2013-05-05 12:00:35 PM
Is Tats in here being a warmonger again? Dammit.
 
2013-05-05 12:00:55 PM
Once again truncating my posts and not citing what is not convenient enough for you. Waste of my time.
 
2013-05-05 12:01:04 PM
Have the last word. You've earned today.  I'm still giggling.
 
2013-05-05 12:02:32 PM

MustTryHarder: Just like acting in the name of God removes consequences, because God will forgive anything done to his benefit, no matter how many people get lied to and killed, amirite?


Or ideology, yes. Fortunately Israel is one of the most agnostic nations in the world today, because its survival depends on it.

/which makes it all the sadder that so many people want to believe they're as much a nation of religious nuts as all the Arab nations surrounding them
//want to believe it so hard, they'll rewrite history for the sake of their ideology
 
2013-05-05 12:05:22 PM

Tatterdemalian: Fortunately Israel is one of the most agnostic nations in the world today, because its survival depends on it.


I...what? Do you have a citation on that? Israel is 75% Jewish, 17% Muslim, 2% Christian and 3.7% "Other" from what I can see.
 
2013-05-05 12:05:34 PM

Tatterdemalian: Or ideology, yes. Fortunately Israel is one of the most agnostic nations in the world today, because its survival depends on it.


What? That's nonsense.
 
2013-05-05 12:07:09 PM
Additionally, they view non-Jewish migration as a demographic threat to the "Jewish state" as laid out in the Koenig Memorandum
 
2013-05-05 12:08:22 PM

Tatsuma: Tatterdemalian: Or ideology, yes. Fortunately Israel is one of the most agnostic nations in the world today, because its survival depends on it.

What? That's nonsense.


On this, you and I agree. However, we disagree on what their survival actually depends on.
 
2013-05-05 12:21:35 PM
I think you guys are missing a major, important point.

Tatsuama has been rolling the entire weekend.   He's supposed to take off the Sabath.  He's not allowed to roll on the Sabbath, so what's the deal?

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-05-05 12:22:14 PM

Tatsuma: There's a huge difference between Israel selling its own weapons and technology to China versus unauthorized sales of US weapons, technology and secrets. I certainly don't deny that the former happens, but the former is also legal and permitted by the US, even though they weren't happy about it from time to time.


How clever are those arms sales to Iran looking now?
 
2013-05-05 12:26:27 PM

Satanic_Hamster: I think you guys are missing a major, important point.

Tatsuama has been rolling the entire weekend.   He's supposed to take off the Sabath.  He's not allowed to roll on the Sabbath, so what's the deal?

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 640x480]


For some reason God considers sunset Friday-sunset Saturday to be the sabbath.
 
2013-05-05 12:48:56 PM

Tommy Moo: Fark Me To Tears: Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.

I think you've got that backwards, sport. Israel is doing this on our behalf.

What do we care which insane dictator is in charge of Syria? They don't have ICBMs or nukes.


Oil, allies, humanitarian interests, and perhaps other interests. Then again, I have you farkied as a liar and a moron and you usually continue to provide justification for such labels.
 
2013-05-05 12:51:45 PM

orbister: Tatsuma: There's a huge difference between Israel selling its own weapons and technology to China versus unauthorized sales of US weapons, technology and secrets. I certainly don't deny that the former happens, but the former is also legal and permitted by the US, even though they weren't happy about it from time to time.

How clever are those arms sales to Iran looking now?


Positively Reaganesque.
 
2013-05-05 12:52:21 PM

cameroncrazy1984: For some reason God considers sunset Friday-sunset Saturday to be the sabbath.


But look at his posts.  He's been rolling in the Israel / mideast threads all day yesterday and Friday night.
 
2013-05-05 12:54:03 PM

vygramul: Positively Reaganneoconesque

 
2013-05-05 12:59:54 PM

Satanic_Hamster: cameroncrazy1984: For some reason God considers sunset Friday-sunset Saturday to be the sabbath.

But look at his posts.  He's been rolling in the Israel / mideast threads all day yesterday and Friday night.


He must be using a machine designed to outsmart an omnipotent deity and his rules. Seriously, Orthodox Jews believe they can outwit the Almighty to get around the Sabbath rules.
 
2013-05-05 01:06:49 PM

Tatsuma: MorrisBird: My daughter was brutally raped her first day in Tel Aviv. Really, <b>Tatsuma</b>, it's a barbaric region.

Yes because it's not like there's a rape happening every two minutes in America. Nope.

Very sorry about your daughter, but that post was just farking stupid.


And probably a lie. It's not likely that they're telling the truth, it's too absurd. If they were telling the truth then they'd be far more likely to have had cause to think about it at greater length and would have likely come to a more reasoned conclusion. "Someone was raped! Those Jews are barbaric!"

No racism here. Nope...

It's an absurd way to go about with attempting to justify their racism though. The story and the conclusion seem highly likely to be concocted just to express their bigotry. It's almost laughable in that they expect that story to be believed.

Simply put, if that had happened it would have been heart breaking and would have likely caused those affected to give some serious time to thinking about the subject. If they'd thought of it at any length they'd have likely used some logic though I suppose that initially they may have just gone with raw emotions and knee jerk responses. If they'd used logic, which would most likely come, they'd have realized that those sorts of things happen in every single country on the planet and that Israel has a lower crime rate than they probably have in their home country. If they'd used logic they'd have realized that rapists aren't limited to any certain geographic region or race. If they'd used logic they'd have come to a different conclusion.

So, it's more likely that the story is untrue. It is more likely that they made the story up just so they can express their racist views (that Jews are barbaric though nicely couched in just stating that it is a barbaric region as if a veil that thin is good enough) and it is odd that they'd expect us to believe their story. I guess people think that a rape claim is so important or delicate that the story can't be questioned and so it is an excuse to make stories up and then make racist claims based on them.
 
2013-05-05 01:19:53 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Satanic_Hamster: cameroncrazy1984: For some reason God considers sunset Friday-sunset Saturday to be the sabbath.

But look at his posts.  He's been rolling in the Israel / mideast threads all day yesterday and Friday night.

He must be using a machine designed to outsmart an omnipotent deity and his rules. Seriously, Orthodox Jews believe they can outwit the Almighty to get around the Sabbath rules.


I don't think making fun of a religion nor making fun of someone's adherence to it in a thread in which religion isn't the discussion nor held out as a moral superiority claim is appropriate. I understand why people might find Tatsuma to be irritating in his strident support of Israel, but please don't let that guide your discourse.

/I know, I know, Welcome to fark
 
2013-05-05 01:23:57 PM

Tatsuma: What happened with the USS Liberty has been clearly established: A tragical error in the midst of a war on all fronts for Israel.

Sometimes, bad things happen in the fog of war, and Israel had no intentions to strike an American vessel, much less sink it. The only people who hold this today should be regarded as those who say that the Boston Bombings and the Sandy Hook massacres were faked by the federal government and crisis actors pretended to be the dead/injured.


While I concur that it was an accident, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable for the layman to look at it and be incredulous. It doesn't take the 9/11 Truther level of contortions to conclude it was intentional. More like the FoxNews-Benghazi-level of contortions.
 
2013-05-05 01:27:44 PM

vygramul: While I concur that it was an accident, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable for the layman to look at it and be incredulous. It doesn't take the 9/11 Truther level of contortions to conclude it was intentional. More like the FoxNews-Benghazi-level of contortions.


Meh, maybe in the early 70s but nowadays there are so many proofs out there, and so many investigations that proved it was accidental, that they are really like the 'Free Jahar!' crowd.
 
2013-05-05 01:27:54 PM

vygramul: I don't think making fun of a religion nor making fun of someone's adherence to it in a thread in which religion isn't the discussion nor held out as a moral superiority claim is appropriate. I understand why people might find Tatsuma to be irritating in his strident support of Israel, but please don't let that guide your discourse.


But it always comes down to that, as his justification for everything.  A man so dedicated to Israel having a simultaneous war against all their neighbors as well as countries on the other side of their neighbors but too cowardly to join the IDF himself.  See, he's a *true* Jew, not like all the fake, lesser Jews that are acceptable cannon fodder for fighting the Muslims.

You know, I've always wondered how people like this reconcile ancient Israel having a military or fighting the Romans and what not.  if it was ok for the Biblical Jews, the ones that are used for the justification of all their actions, why not now?
 
2013-05-05 01:30:33 PM

Ghastly: a country that claims to worship capitalism above all else


I live here and I've yet to hear of anyone actually making that claim. I hear a lot of people claiming that that's what America claims and what it stands for but I know of no tenets of our system of government that enforces or even suggest that idea.

In fact, our constitution declares that we won't have a free market.

What America claims to worship is democracy. That is a lie however. Perhaps if you want to find fault then you could find fault with that - it is honest, accurate, and actually serves some purpose.

But... If you're going to find problem with the country then feel free but let's try to keep it limited to reality. Dishonesty, propaganda, and ignorance have no place in a well reasoned debate.

The idea that the United States is founded on, has the principles of, or even has a history of free market trade is absurd and those who make such claims do themselves a disservice. The idea is so greatly different from the truth that it was important enough to make the founding fathers enumerate the regulatory powers into the constitution. The Commerce Clause (Article I, Section 8, Clause 3) quite specifically disproves any such notions and we have been this way since the creation of our nation.

I am not sure what would motivate you to make such a statement? Perhaps you heard it from a friend? Perhaps you've been listening to pundits? Perhaps you have decided you wanted to make an unsubstantiated point that didn't have logic or truth behind it and opted to repeat an oft-quoted lie to make it appear to be true? Perhaps you just didn't know?

It isn't that America doesn't have faults, she has plenty. It is that for a debate to actually happen, for any changes to be made (and we do need to make changes), we need to start with honesty. The idea that America is founded on, believes, or even pretends to believe in a free market is absurd and it is so patently dishonest that it seriously detracts from the character of the person who makes such claims.

I hold you to a higher standard and have you farkied as such. So, seriously... Why would you post such a thing? Why would you believe such a thing? Do you dare ask yourself what other opinions you hold that are based on faulty data and, if so, will you adjust your beliefs accordingly?

You don't have to answer, perhaps it is better if you do not.
 
2013-05-05 01:31:35 PM
Ok Israel!  I am warning you!   This shiat had better not effect my hummus supply!  So, in conclusion; Would you like to buy more bombs?

/we have plenty...
 
2013-05-05 01:39:42 PM

Parmenius: Adolf Oliver Nipples: My mother-in-law naively wants to take my son to visit Israel this summer. Over my dead body. The Middle East may be engulfed in flames by this summer the way things are going right now with Syria and Iran. I didn't take all those trips to the sandbox over the last decade so that my son could be put in harm's way by his grandmother.

They're probably safer touring Israel than they are touring NYC. Israel is not "the sandbox".


for real....   Hey, if you don't want your kid to go, can I have his seat on the plane?  I have always wanted to visit...
 
2013-05-05 01:39:53 PM

Satanic_Hamster: But look at his posts.  He's been rolling in the Israel / mideast threads all day yesterday and Friday night


Perhaps he pays a gentile to post for him on the Sabbath?
 
2013-05-05 01:40:08 PM
Meh... Perhaps I should have been more clear. Oh well. No, we're not capitalists. While we do have some tenets of capitalism, the economic system of capitalism is quite specifically limited. Capitalist wouldn't have done stuff like bail out the automobile industry, as an example. We still have private ownership of production but only as is allowed through the graces of the Commerce Clause.

Sorry about that - I should have been more clear. I'd meant to type more of that out in detail but somehow missed it. I'd rather be clear about it from the start and wish I'd included that. Please accept my apologies.
 
2013-05-05 01:43:05 PM

picturescrazy: Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.

Syria can barely keep its government intact in the middle of a civil war despite having a lot more firepower. Do you really think in the middle of that Israel would need our help?


Syria may declare war, but I doubt they will seriously attack Israel.  Right now Israel is just hitting a few targets of opportunity.  If Syria starts actively attacking Israel then the Assad regime faces annihilation quickly.  So, It's is in their best interest to put up with the "limited" attacks from Israel rather than force them to open the entire can of whoop-ass...
 
2013-05-05 01:45:20 PM

Maul555: Syria may declare war, but I doubt they will seriously attack Israel. Right now Israel is just hitting a few targets of opportunity. If Syria starts actively attacking Israel then the Assad regime faces annihilation quickly. So, It's is in their best interest to put up with the "limited" attacks from Israel rather than force them to open the entire can of whoop-ass...


Yeah if Assad seriously declares war against Israel he's going to be dead within hours and his military completely decimated within a week at most.
 
2013-05-05 01:46:28 PM
I mean, we literally warned Assad 'The next time you try to kickstart shiat with us, we're coming to kill you personally'

There's a reason why the IDF, before striking last week, went over his palace in Damascus and boomed over it a few times.
 
2013-05-05 01:56:15 PM

orbister: Perhaps he pays a gentile to post for him on the Sabbath?


HAH.

That's actually plausible.
 
2013-05-05 02:11:46 PM

Satanic_Hamster: vygramul: I don't think making fun of a religion nor making fun of someone's adherence to it in a thread in which religion isn't the discussion nor held out as a moral superiority claim is appropriate. I understand why people might find Tatsuma to be irritating in his strident support of Israel, but please don't let that guide your discourse.

But it always comes down to that, as his justification for everything.  A man so dedicated to Israel having a simultaneous war against all their neighbors as well as countries on the other side of their neighbors but too cowardly to join the IDF himself.  See, he's a *true* Jew, not like all the fake, lesser Jews that are acceptable cannon fodder for fighting the Muslims.

You know, I've always wondered how people like this reconcile ancient Israel having a military or fighting the Romans and what not.  if it was ok for the Biblical Jews, the ones that are used for the justification of all their actions, why not now?


The same is true of Christianity and Buddhism. Mass killing in the guise of war totally violates the fundamental precepts of those religions. This isn't especially true of Judaism. I'm not overly-fond of religion in general, and I'm not trying to defend any of the assertions surrounding it. But he hasn't made that assertion in this thread yet. Consider the possibility that, at some point, you convince him to abandon that line of argument. What could this do but force him to feel the need to defend himself again? Let him make the assertion first. THEN attack it.
 
2013-05-05 02:16:00 PM

UnspokenVoice: Meh... Perhaps I should have been more clear. Oh well. No, we're not capitalists. While we do have some tenets of capitalism, the economic system of capitalism is quite specifically limited. Capitalist wouldn't have done stuff like bail out the automobile industry, as an example. We still have private ownership of production but only as is allowed through the graces of the Commerce Clause.

Sorry about that - I should have been more clear. I'd meant to type more of that out in detail but somehow missed it. I'd rather be clear about it from the start and wish I'd included that. Please accept my apologies.


Please. That's like saying that any government powerful enough to stop private forces from interfering with capitalism is therefore powerful enough to interfere with capitalism itself, meaning capitalism only exists by sufferance and can never actually exist.

We're one of the most capitalist countries ever to exist or ever will exist.
 
2013-05-05 02:19:11 PM

vygramul: The same is true of Christianity and Buddhism. Mass killing in the guise of war totally violates the fundamental precepts of those religions. This isn't especially true of Judaism. I'm not overly-fond of religion in general, and I'm not trying to defend any of the assertions surrounding it. But he hasn't made that assertion in this thread yet. Consider the possibility that, at some point, you convince him to abandon that line of argument. What could this do but force him to feel the need to defend himself again? Let him make the assertion first. THEN attack it.


And what's the point?  It's like "discussing" things with Bevets.  Easier to just cut to the chase.
 
2013-05-05 02:21:14 PM

UnspokenVoice: The Commerce Clause (Article I, Section 8, Clause 3) quite specifically disproves any such notions and we have been this way since the creation of our nation.


Only in post-Civil War thinking. You have to think the way they thought of the states - as largely autonomous. If anything, the clause was a libertarian wet dream, as free markets require free movement of commodities across borders and the commerce clause basically told the states they couldn't fark with movement of commodities across their borders to another state.

The commerce clause was not originally intended to grant the federal government the sweeping powers it ended up bestowing.
 
2013-05-05 02:27:53 PM

Satanic_Hamster: vygramul: The same is true of Christianity and Buddhism. Mass killing in the guise of war totally violates the fundamental precepts of those religions. This isn't especially true of Judaism. I'm not overly-fond of religion in general, and I'm not trying to defend any of the assertions surrounding it. But he hasn't made that assertion in this thread yet. Consider the possibility that, at some point, you convince him to abandon that line of argument. What could this do but force him to feel the need to defend himself again? Let him make the assertion first. THEN attack it.

And what's the point?  It's like "discussing" things with Bevets.  Easier to just cut to the chase.


The high road.
 
2013-05-05 02:31:03 PM

vygramul: The high road.


On Fark?

That's adorable.

Some of us get tired of having the same thread over and over.  Easier to just cut to the chase every now and then.
 
2013-05-05 03:07:02 PM

Satanic_Hamster: vygramul: The high road.

On Fark?

That's adorable.

Some of us get tired of having the same thread over and over.  Easier to just cut to the chase every now and then.


Hey - I did say "I know, I know. Welcome to Fark."
 
2013-05-05 03:26:59 PM

vygramul: Hey - I did say "I know, I know. Welcome to Fark."


I get what you're saying and generally agree; when dealing w/ random strangers.  But when you're dealing with the same troll years on end and have seen this process repeat itself dozens of times?  It's like treating Skinnyhead or GaryPDX like they were real human beings.
 
2013-05-05 03:37:24 PM

Satanic_Hamster: vygramul: Hey - I did say "I know, I know. Welcome to Fark."

I get what you're saying and generally agree; when dealing w/ random strangers.  But when you're dealing with the same troll years on end and have seen this process repeat itself dozens of times?  It's like treating Skinnyhead or GaryPDX like they were real human beings.


Woahwoahwoah... let's not go crazy.
 
2013-05-05 03:42:59 PM

vygramul: Woahwoahwoah... let's not go crazy.


He's the one who repeated in two different threads multiple times that I was posting on Shabbat (I wasn't) and seems to basically just argue at me, argue about me, or insult me, adding nothing to this thread, while he knows I have him on ignore.

Yet I'm the troll that it's worthless debating with (which is exactly what he tries doing every thread I'm in, based on the constant green arrows I see next to his name)
 
2013-05-05 03:59:54 PM

Tatsuma: et I'm the troll that it's worthless debating with


You put everyone who doesn't agree with you on ignore. Of course you're useless to debate with.
 
2013-05-05 04:46:49 PM

jso2897: Primitive Biblical bignoses are killing each other. Again.

[i18.photobucket.com image 400x493]


Iamokwiththis.jpg
 
2013-05-05 05:52:55 PM

UnspokenVoice: Ghastly: a country that claims to worship capitalism above all else

I live here and I've yet to hear of anyone actually making that claim.


Really? You've never heard of Calvin Coolidge?
 
2013-05-05 06:03:57 PM

Tatsuma: vygramul: Woahwoahwoah... let's not go crazy.

He's the one who repeated in two different threads multiple times that I was posting on Shabbat (I wasn't) and seems to basically just argue at me, argue about me, or insult me, adding nothing to this thread, while he knows I have him on ignore.

Yet I'm the troll that it's worthless debating with (which is exactly what he tries doing every thread I'm in, based on the constant green arrows I see next to his name)


You'd be better off debating with a brick wall or a teenager.  You'd get a more intelligent response.
 
2013-05-05 07:34:24 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: I really wouldn't give a shiat what Israel did - nor would the rest of the civilized world - if the U.S. would just stay the fark out of it.


no worries..as long as Israel is the one doing the giving the US will stay out. It's the taking part that we will then become involve.
 
2013-05-05 07:37:00 PM

BravadoGT: mayIFark: So, let me get this straight, Hamas shoots rockets at random targets in Israel - Terrorism (Agreed).
Israel shoots even more powerful stuff at random targets all over the middle east - Not Terrorism (What the fark?)

that wasn't a "random target." It wasn't a school or a pizzeria; it was a missile factory.  Meant to be fired at them.  There is a big difference.


not to play devil's advocate but are you saying if Hamas hit an Israeli ammo dump or tank factory you wouldn't call it terrorism? I find that hard to believe.
 
2013-05-05 07:44:48 PM

SuperNinjaToad: not to play devil's advocate but are you saying if Hamas hit an Israeli ammo dump or tank factory you wouldn't call it terrorism? I find that hard to believe.


No, that would be a guerrilla attack, and I would congratulate them on finally growing a pair and stop being cowards.
 
2013-05-05 08:07:25 PM

Tatsuma: SuperNinjaToad: not to play devil's advocate but are you saying if Hamas hit an Israeli ammo dump or tank factory you wouldn't call it terrorism? I find that hard to believe.

No, that would be a guerrilla attack, and I would congratulate them on finally growing a pair and stop being cowards.


I don't consider the attack on the USS Cole a terrorist act.
 
2013-05-05 08:07:34 PM
You do have to wonder how many brown children Tatsuma would personally sacrifice on an altar in the name of Israeli independence.

I mean taking pleasure in the murder of 'terrorists' or making feeble justifications for massive 'collateral damage' is one thing, but would he have the stones to actually get down like his ancestors and dash some babby brains out against a wall in the name of Yahweh?

I think it's a little unfair that he's the strongest representation of fundamentalist craziness and cognitive dissonance in here. It would be more balanced if we had some wild eyed muslim whackjob posting the same kind of nonsense from the other side of the fence. There'd be a lot less 'Jews are brutal monsters' and more 'The whole area is a lost cause of fundamentalist nutters'.

I'd say that Tatsuma's insanity is actually the greatest act of anti-semitism on Fark - he stirs up more hatred towards the Jewish people than three or four Stormfront sub-forums. At least if there was an equal amount of crazy from the other team it would mitigate that somewhat.

I dunno, you read the old testament and think 'what a bunch of bloodthirsty psychopaths on all sides and what vile, petty conflicts'.

And then you realise it is still going strong, and always will.

Kind of makes you wish they had all listened to that Jesus guy and his 'New' Testament.

But then again, I'm not sure how well that one worked out in implementation.
 
2013-05-05 08:09:16 PM
utah dude: Jesus only dropped the f-bomb when he was cleaning out the temple.

If he'd been the actual son of G-d (not that there is such a thing literally, ch"vs), he might have remembered that, oh you know, G-d himself ordered what was happening in the Temple.



OK, Tats, I'll bite. Given your interest in Judaism, I assume you have read the entire Tanakh (aka Old Testament),k yes? All the prophets?

Question: were there any examples of Jews doing things on the Temple Mount or in the Temple itself which G-d disapproved of?

Hint: Ezekiel.

Did it occur to you that Jesus might have been annoyed with some similar behaviors? Specifically, he did not like people selling doves and other sacraficial animals inside the temple grounds (vs. outside). That seems fairly consistent with what G-d might want, as evidenced in other stories in the Tanakh.
 
2013-05-05 08:10:14 PM

vygramul: I don't consider the attack on the USS Cole a terrorist act.


Me neither.

I consider the post right under yours a pretty pure form of anti-semitism though.
 
2013-05-05 08:14:14 PM

cloud_van_dame: Did it occur to you that Jesus might have been annoyed with some similar behaviors? Specifically, he did not like people selling doves and other sacraficial animals inside the temple grounds (vs. outside). That seems fairly consistent with what G-d might want, as evidenced in other stories in the Tanakh.


Your example is wrong. The process of what should happen at the Temple Mount in order to facilitate the sacrifices were laid out both in the Oral Torah and in the Written Torah as part of the Pentateuch (what we call Torah).

It's like that story about the 12 apostles just wandering around on the Sabbath plucking corn from the ears and asking that guy 'Why are your disciples doing that??' and him answering 'Well did not David eat from the showbread of the Priests in the Temple?'

Well, first of all, he ate from them because he was about to die from starvation, and these guys were not (otherwise people would not have said anything as you're allowed to break Shabbat if you are about to die of thirst/starvation) and second the High Priest is absolutely allowed to give the show bread to others once they are about to change it for the new show breads (as they were about to) as it then becomes the property of the Cohanim to eat.
 
2013-05-05 08:19:28 PM

Tatsuma: vygramul: I don't consider the attack on the USS Cole a terrorist act.

Me neither.

I consider the post right under yours a pretty pure form of anti-semitism though.


So thinking you are insane is anti semitic?

I have Jewish friends and celebrate their rich history.

I have the utmost sympathy for Israelis who want a peaceful life.

You're a warmongering, insane, fundamentalist whackjob.

And using 'anti semitism' as a shield to hide your own personal failings cheapens it for those who actually should be protected by it.

Ironically, you're the anti-semite with your one-eyed insanity.
 
2013-05-05 08:19:55 PM

Tatsuma: Your example is wrong. The process of what should happen at the Temple Mount in order to facilitate the sacrifices were laid out both in the Oral Torah and in the Written Torah as part of the Pentateuch (what we call Torah).


This is actually interesting. Can you cite the book/page etc so I can read it?
 
2013-05-05 08:21:16 PM

cegorach: So thinking you are insane is anti semitic?


No.

However saying things like 'One Jew makes me hate all Jews' and

cegorach: I dunno, you read the old testament and think 'what a bunch of bloodthirsty psychopaths on all sides and what vile, petty conflicts'.

And then you realise it is still going strong, and always will.

Kind of makes you wish they had all listened to that Jesus guy and his 'New' Testament.


'Jews are a bunch of bloodthirsty psychopaths, they've been that way for 3,300 years, why didn't they just accept xianity and became better and not bloodthirsty psychopath' is literally textbook anti-semitism.
 
2013-05-05 08:23:23 PM

Tatsuma: Well, first of all, he ate from them because he was about to die from starvation, and these guys were not (otherwise people would not have said anything as you're allowed to break Shabbat if you are about to die of thirst/starvation)


Thing is, maybe they WERE very hungry (are you required to fast during shabbat? I understand no cooking is allowed) but the person who questioned them did not know that, so asked them.

We don't know, it was 2000 years ago. If that was their only opportunity to eat, but the questioner didn't know that, the whole thing is a misunderstanding.
 
2013-05-05 08:26:22 PM

cloud_van_dame: This is actually interesting. Can you cite the book/page etc so I can read it?


By memory, the rule that the moneychangers will be necessary comes from Shemot (Exodus) 30 where the rules for the exchange was first laid out, and it was brought up later in Vayikra (Leviticus) and I believe there's also another reference in Shemot.

I don't have any books with me right now, they are all packed, but yeah those rules are most definitely set out early in the Bible.
 
2013-05-05 08:29:01 PM

cloud_van_dame: Thing is, maybe they WERE very hungry (are you required to fast during shabbat? I understand no cooking is allowed) but the person who questioned them did not know that, so asked them.

We don't know, it was 2000 years ago. If that was their only opportunity to eat, but the questioner didn't know that, the whole thing is a misunderstanding.


Well, no, you wouldn't be allowed to break Shabbat if you're 'very hungry', only if you were about to actually die. As far as no cooking, this is a bit more complicated than that, you would be allowed to set a meal up before shabbat and have it cook through during Shabbat (to use on the day) as long as it was 1/3rd cooked before the onset of Shabbat.

As far as the person asking them not knowing, this is highly unlikely and if it was the case, well clearly he only had to say 'Well they were allowed to die, therefore they ate and it's permitted', he would not have gone a rant about how David ate bread in the Temple and anyway be more careful about what you say than what you eat. He absolutely avoided answering the question while trying to take the moral high ground. He would have been a good Fark poster.
 
2013-05-05 08:54:41 PM

Tatsuma: cegorach: So thinking you are insane is anti semitic?

No.

However saying things like 'One Jew makes me hate all Jews' and

cegorach: I dunno, you read the old testament and think 'what a bunch of bloodthirsty psychopaths on all sides and what vile, petty conflicts'.

And then you realise it is still going strong, and always will.

Kind of makes you wish they had all listened to that Jesus guy and his 'New' Testament.

'Jews are a bunch of bloodthirsty psychopaths, they've been that way for 3,300 years, why didn't they just accept xianity and became better and not bloodthirsty psychopath' is literally textbook anti-semitism.


So you're not just insane, but also have visual difficulties?

I didn't say 'One Jew makes me hate all Jews'  - You did. In fact I quite clearly said I like Jews - it's in black and white, right there up the page.

Neither did I say
'Jews are a bunch of bloodthirsty psychopaths, they've been that way for 3,300 years, why didn't they just accept xianity and became better and not bloodthirsty psychopath' is literally textbook anti-semitism.

You did.

I pointed out the vicious internecine warfare of the Old Testament is still going ON ALL SIDES. That's a comment on human nature, not 'semitism'.

Again, you demonstrate how your extremism warps your ability to deal with factual reality.

You, White Power Bill, Jihadi Joe and Klansman Keith are all the same guy. Changing the words doesn't change the sentiment.

You have an insanity that makes you actually wish death and suffering on other humans due to a perceived ideological difference.

That's what makes you different, not the fact that you happen to be Jewish.

It's not a good difference.
 
2013-05-05 09:05:18 PM

Tatsuma: Well, no, you wouldn't be allowed to break Shabbat if you're 'very hungry', only if you were about to actually die. As far as no cooking, this is a bit more complicated than that, you would be allowed to set a meal up before shabbat and have it cook through during Shabbat (to use on the day) as long as it was 1/3rd cooked before the onset of Shabbat.

As far as the person asking them not knowing, this is highly unlikely and if it was the case, well clearly he only had to say 'Well they were allowed to die, therefore they ate and it's permitted', he would not have gone a rant about how David ate bread in the Temple and anyway be more careful about what you say than what you eat. He absolutely avoided answering the question while trying to take the moral high ground. He would have been a good Fark poster.



The other issue is whether eating raw grain right off the stalk constitutes "work". Clearly there was an interpretation of scripture that this is the case (it is harvesting) but then again, it is also no more work than eating a meal that was prepared the day before.

Also, I am reading Exodus 30, it has a provision for taking atonement donations (half a shekel per person, Exodus 30:11-16). Problem was, this was instructions for when the temple was still a tent, and nothing about selling doves. Leviticus 1 says you should make your offering of an animal to be sacraficed at the doorway of the tent meeting. Pease offerings also should be offered at the doorway of the tent meeting (not inside). [Leviticus 3]. Sin offerings also should be presented at the doorway of the tent meeting [Leviticus 4]. Leviticus 5 states that if a person cannot afford two turtledoves, they can bring an ephah of flour to the priest instead. Still no moneychangers, but getting warmer.

I think the question, re Jesus being outraged, is where the boundary (doorway) of the temple is considered to be, and whether the dove-sellers were on the wrong side of it.
 
2013-05-05 09:09:47 PM

cegorach: You do have to wonder how many brown children Tatsuma would personally sacrifice on an altar in the name of Israeli independence.


All of them, I think.
 
2013-05-05 09:24:11 PM

cloud_van_dame: The other issue is whether eating raw grain right off the stalk constitutes "work". Clearly there was an interpretation of scripture that this is the case (it is harvesting) but then again, it is also no more work than eating a meal that was prepared the day before.


Except that 'work', in regard to the Sabbath, has nothing to do with 'work' in the English sense. Melacha is related to the things that were done in relation to the Temple. That means that, for example, you would be allowed to move a heavy piece of furniture from the basement to the third floor, while you wouldn't be able to take a piece of cloth and bring it from a domain that is considered private to one that is considered public.

cloud_van_dame: Problem was, this was instructions for when the temple was still a tent, and nothing about selling doves.


Sacrificing doves was indeed commanded as acceptable multiple times.

cloud_van_dame: Pease offerings also should be offered at the doorway of the tent meeting (not inside).


Different sacrifices were done in different places. Also the sanctity of the Temple Mount is not the same as inside the Temple, and specific places in the Temple did not have the same holiness as the Holy of Holies.

cloud_van_dame: Leviticus 5 states that if a person cannot afford two turtledoves, they can bring an ephah of flour to the priest instead. Still no moneychangers, but getting warmer.


Changing the money was mentioned in Tanach but as I said I don't have my books with me right now.

Oh and do you want to know what's really funny? When you enter the xian quarter in the Old City through the Yaffa gate, the first thing you see are rows and rows of buildings of Moneychangers. All concentrated there, too.

cloud_van_dame: I think the question, re Jesus being outraged, is where the boundary (doorway) of the temple is considered to be, and whether the dove-sellers were on the wrong side of it.


Everything had been done that way until he did that, and then we kept on doing it after he was kicked out. And once we rebuild the Third Temple, we will be doing it again.
 
2013-05-05 09:30:25 PM

UnspokenVoice: Tommy Moo: Fark Me To Tears: Tommy Moo: You're on your own, Israel. Don't you dare expect that you can throw a few rocks to provoke a full scale invasion, and that the United States will then step in and fight your war for you.

I think you've got that backwards, sport. Israel is doing this on our behalf.

What do we care which insane dictator is in charge of Syria? They don't have ICBMs or nukes.

Oil, allies, humanitarian interests, and perhaps other interests. Then again, I have you farkied as a liar and a moron and you usually continue to provide justification for such labels.


Eat shiat and die. I'm neither.
 
2013-05-05 09:31:57 PM

Tatsuma: Oh and do you want to know what's really funny? When you enter the xian quarter in the Old City through the Yaffa gate, the first thing you see are rows and rows of buildings of Moneychangers. All concentrated there, too.


I bet Jesus wouldn't like that, either.
 
2013-05-05 09:34:40 PM

Tatsuma: Everything had been done that way until he did that, and then we kept on doing it after he was kicked out. And once we rebuild the Third Temple, we will be doing it again.


Aaaand, we're back to my first question, which you ignored: Are there any examples in the Tanakh of Jews doing things on the Temple Mount, or in the Temple itself, that G-d disapproved of?

The answer is yes, and you know that.
 
2013-05-05 09:39:15 PM

cloud_van_dame: Aaaand, we're back to my first question, which you ignored: Are there any examples in the Tanakh of Jews doing things on the Temple Mount, or in the Temple itself, that G-d disapproved of?


I thought I answered already that it was 'irrelevant' to the table turning situation
 
2013-05-06 12:10:05 AM

Tatsuma: cloud_van_dame: Aaaand, we're back to my first question, which you ignored: Are there any examples in the Tanakh of Jews doing things on the Temple Mount, or in the Temple itself, that G-d disapproved of?

I thought I answered already that it was 'irrelevant' to the table turning situation


Does it really matter one way or another since it's all mythology anyway?
 
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