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(Guardian)   "How do you find out what the bombers said on the phone before they were suspects?" "No problem. Everyone's phone calls are recorded, so we can go back and find what they said"   (guardian.co.uk) divider line 237
    More: Scary, phone calls, Kansas City Life Insurance Company, surveillance state, Carol Costello  
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6611 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 May 2013 at 2:00 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



237 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-05-04 09:22:54 AM  
CLEMENTE: "No, welcome to America. All of that stuff is being captured as we speak whether we know it or like it or not."
 
2013-05-04 09:38:51 AM  
But people concerned about a gun registry are paranoid.
 
2013-05-04 09:44:07 AM  
I don't find this particularly surprising but it's a little disappointing.
 
2013-05-04 09:46:30 AM  
Unless you use encryption, don't ever assume that you're having a "private" conversation. It's all stored away somewhere. Texts, e-mail, GPS locations, online purchases, banking transactions, porn preferences. And if you're planning on doing anything remotely illegal, your phone WILL rat you out.
 
2013-05-04 09:48:02 AM  

NutWrench: Unless you use encryption, don't ever assume that you're having a "private" conversation. It's all stored away somewhere. Texts, e-mail, GPS locations, online purchases, banking transactions, porn preferences. And if you're planning on doing anything remotely illegal, your phone WILL rat you out.


Everyone knows you're supposed to use "burner" phones.
 
2013-05-04 09:55:24 AM  

Bontesla: I don't find this particularly surprising but it's a little disappointing.


No, it's more like the beginnings of a police state.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-05-04 10:05:44 AM  

themindiswatching: Everyone knows you're supposed to use "burner" phones.


That doesn't work unless ALL the people you've ever called, texted, emailed, etc. used anonymous phones.  Tracking your relational communications can identify you very quickly.  There was a recent publication which showed that by making a few as three phone calls they can identify the anonymous caller.


Nabb1: No, it's more like the beginnings of a police state.


I would say if such surveillance infrastructure exists (clearly it does), then we already have a silent police state.
 
2013-05-04 10:15:31 AM  

Nabb1: Bontesla: I don't find this particularly surprising but it's a little disappointing.

No, it's more like the beginnings of a police state.


This would have to occur with the complicity of the telecoms.

If only there was a word for government cooperating with private industry to form a totalitarian state.
 
2013-05-04 10:18:21 AM  

gilgigamesh: Nabb1: Bontesla: I don't find this particularly surprising but it's a little disappointing.

No, it's more like the beginnings of a police state.

This would have to occur with the complicity of the telecoms.

If only there was a word for government cooperating with private industry to form a totalitarian state.


Ooo!  Ooo! Mista Kotter, Mista Kotter! {waives arm}
 
2013-05-04 10:40:44 AM  

Nabb1: Ooo!  Ooo! Mista Kotter, Mista Kotter! {waives arm}


Yes Juan.
 
2013-05-04 10:46:43 AM  

Nabb1: gilgigamesh: Nabb1: Bontesla: I don't find this particularly surprising but it's a little disappointing.

No, it's more like the beginnings of a police state.

This would have to occur with the complicity of the telecoms.

If only there was a word for government cooperating with private industry to form a totalitarian state.

Ooo!  Ooo! Mista Kotter, Mista Kotter! {waives arm}


Careful now. They're watching.
 
2013-05-04 10:52:42 AM  

sentex: Nabb1: Ooo!  Ooo! Mista Kotter, Mista Kotter! {waives arm}

Yes Juan.


Horseshack(spelling?) was the one who went Ooo Ooo
 
2013-05-04 10:54:33 AM  
So the recording of telephone calls they are talking about do they mean actual recording of the conversation or just a record of who calls who and how long the conversation lasted?
 
2013-05-04 11:00:38 AM  

spongeboob: sentex: Nabb1: Ooo!  Ooo! Mista Kotter, Mista Kotter! {waives arm}

Yes Juan.

Horseshack(spelling?) was the one who went Ooo Ooo


you're right
 
2013-05-04 11:48:06 AM  
what about honey boo boo
 
2013-05-04 12:08:34 PM  
Were the records obtained via a proper search warrant?  If so, I see no problems here.  If not, well...
 
2013-05-04 12:46:51 PM  

Jon iz teh kewl: what about honey boo boo


She's chief judge on the FISA court.
 
2013-05-04 01:07:33 PM  

nekom: Were the records obtained via a proper search warrant?  If so, I see no problems here.  If not, well...


The records shouldn't even exist.
 
2013-05-04 01:10:29 PM  
img.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-04 01:12:08 PM  
img.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-04 01:40:08 PM  

NewportBarGuy: nekom: Were the records obtained via a proper search warrant?  If so, I see no problems here.  If not, well...

The records shouldn't even exist.


We damn sure agree on this.

/now we're friends, and that makes me happy
 
2013-05-04 01:40:48 PM  
I'll bet they have a signed warrant.

/Epstein's mother
 
2013-05-04 01:52:46 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: We damn sure agree on this.


The problem is, MOST of us agree on this. I just don't know if we have enough power to correct it. I've seen Senate Democrats pushing in the right direction, but so very, very little progress restoring the privacy rights we lost with passage of that f*cking horrible piece of crap USA Patriot Act. They've just abandoned all vestige of carrying about our rights. (Congress has) Followed by the alphabet agencies who, in my view, don't even work for the President. They are career people who have seized the opportunity to basically control all information.

Once we give something up we either don't get it back or it takes a very long time to fix.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-05-04 01:55:53 PM  

R.A.Danny: But people concerned about a gun registry are paranoid.


Yep.  They are idiots.
 
2013-05-04 02:02:56 PM  
Room 641A.
 
2013-05-04 02:05:14 PM  
Google has less than 1% of the Internet indexed.

But I'm to believe the federal government has 100% of everything indexed, searchable, and completely retrievable easily.
 
2013-05-04 02:11:34 PM  

NewportBarGuy: jehovahs witness protection: We damn sure agree on this.

The problem is, MOST of us agree on this. I just don't know if we have enough power to correct it. I've seen Senate Democrats pushing in the right direction, but so very, very little progress restoring the privacy rights we lost with passage of that f*cking horrible piece of crap USA Patriot Act. They've just abandoned all vestige of carrying about our rights. (Congress has) Followed by the alphabet agencies who, in my view, don't even work for the President. They are career people who have seized the opportunity to basically control all information.

Once we give something up we either don't get it back or it takes a very long time to fix.




Obviously the NSA has enough info on Obama and Congress to make sure these rights are never taken away.
 
2013-05-04 02:14:45 PM  

R.A.Danny: But people concerned about unaware that "they" can construct a gun registry from existing data any time they wantare  paranoid idiots.

FTFY

 
2013-05-04 02:16:16 PM  
OBAMA!

SWAT...came into my home...disrespected my whole family all because someone, NARCED ME OUT! And you know what? It was YOU!
 
2013-05-04 02:17:06 PM  
Hmm, a controversial statement by a guy who no longer works for the FBI got him invited back for another television appearance.

I wonder why he said what he did.

/fairly certain that storage media simply isn't being manufactured fast enough for the spooks to be archiving every phone conversation made by everybody.
 
2013-05-04 02:17:22 PM  
Am I the only one who remembers the very public arguments about who was going to pay for this about 13 years ago?  That particular argument was decided in Sep,  2001.  The phone companies hate this, it's costing a fortune, but the law says they have to.  This wasn't creeping fascism, it was rather proudly goose-stepping.

Or did you think the DeathStar was likely to do this out of the goodness of their heart?

Cheers.
 
2013-05-04 02:18:46 PM  

vygramul: Google has less than 1% of the Internet indexed.


(citation needed)
 
2013-05-04 02:20:12 PM  

poot_rootbeer: Hmm, a controversial statement by a guy who no longer works for the FBI got him invited back for another television appearance.

I wonder why he said what he did.

/fairly certain that storage media simply isn't being manufactured fast enough for the spooks to be archiving every phone conversation made by everybody.


My guess is once your name gets put on whatever list they put him on after the Russian alerts, your shiat is archived 'just in case'.  There are probably so many people on that list that they couldn't keep up with all of them, but at least they'll have a record after the fact.
 
2013-05-04 02:20:56 PM  
That sure makes life simple.

In the future, you'll go to a judge to ask that you not be wliretapped for a certain length of time and for certain subjects.

That's certainly less paperwork that search warrants on each individual, every individual.

Before automation, everyone was expected to spy on their neighbors and keep good notes. There was less free time.
 
2013-05-04 02:21:47 PM  

El Pachuco: vygramul: Google has less than 1% of the Internet indexed.

(citation needed)


estimates the size of the whole internet as 5 million terabytes, and Google only indexes 0.04% of it
 
2013-05-04 02:22:18 PM  

nekom: Were the records obtained via a proper search warrant?  If so, I see no problems here.  If not, well...


0_0

Holy crap!
 
2013-05-04 02:28:05 PM  

studs up: nekom: Were the records obtained via a proper search warrant?  If so, I see no problems here.  If not, well...

0_0

Holy crap!


Welcome to the right-wing authoritarianism being pitched, right farking now, in Congress. And Obama's along for it, too.
 
2013-05-04 02:29:23 PM  
Since when is this news?


Everything you do over the internet or phone is duplicated and archived. The hard part is sorting through the data.
 
2013-05-04 02:29:32 PM  

R.A.Danny: But people concerned about a gun registry are paranoid.


They don't need a registry to find out if you own a firearm so yes it is.
 
2013-05-04 02:31:27 PM  

vygramul: Google has less than 1% of the Internet indexed.

But I'm to believe the federal government has 100% of everything indexed, searchable, and completely retrievable easily.


To be fair, there are some critical differences between a profit-driven company and a paranoid government with pockets so deep that they extend into other nations.  The NSA is impressively ahead of the curve.  Every now and then they tip their hand to ask for changes (like in banking/business cryptography).  I'm not saying they're doing what you're saying, but you probably shouldn't put them in the same league as Google.
 
2013-05-04 02:31:33 PM  
I knew I'd seen this:

http://itlaw.wikia.com/wiki/CALEA

It's pretty clear about what is and isn't happening.

Cheers.
 
2013-05-04 02:32:51 PM  
Initially, my thought was OMG! ENCRYPT EVERYTHING! But then I realized my Fark posts would just be gibberish, which would prevent the three or four people who normally read them from being able to see what I'd posted.
 
2013-05-04 02:33:59 PM  
If they wanna' get you, they will get you.  Hell, they don't even have to have anything, just charge you and if you can't afford a good lawyer (which most middle income Americans can't) their goose is cooked.  That's why we have so many copping pleas to keep from having to go to jail for the rest of their lives and lying about someone else to get a lighter sentence.

Welcome to America
 
2013-05-04 02:35:53 PM  

R.A.Danny: But people concerned about a gun registry are paranoid.


Just because they're out to get you, it doesn't mean you're not paranoid.
 
2013-05-04 02:37:09 PM  

NFA: themindiswatching: Everyone knows you're supposed to use "burner" phones.

That doesn't work unless ALL the people you've ever called, texted, emailed, etc. used anonymous phones.  Tracking your relational communications can identify you very quickly.  There was a recent publication which showed that by making a few as three phone calls they can identify the anonymous caller.


Nabb1: No, it's more like the beginnings of a police state.

I would say if such surveillance infrastructure exists (clearly it does), then we already have a silent police state.


I would figure 10 years or so. Ever since they've had the intercepts in place in the switches, and the ability to record it, it was recorded. FISA.
 
2013-05-04 02:38:02 PM  

poot_rootbeer: Hmm, a controversial statement by a guy who no longer works for the FBI got him invited back for another television appearance.

I wonder why he said what he did.

/fairly certain that storage media simply isn't being manufactured fast enough for the spooks to be archiving every phone conversation made by everybody.


This. They revealed they had his past txt messages. Its not remotely shocking that the phone companies are storing every txt message. This guy who really isn't anyone is declaring that they must have recorded the conversations as well.
 
2013-05-04 02:40:10 PM  
This has been known for quite a long time.  The United States has been forced to admit in court on at least one occasion that we intercept and record all communications.  Hence most of the installations at providers themselves, splitting various optical cables, amongst other neat tricks.

If you pay close attention to the news, you'd realize the false part of the statement he made is "we can just go back and listen to them."  There is so much data that our government has admitted it literally cannot go through it.  If they have a particular phone ID in this case, is it possible?  Yeah.  But there have been other instances wherein the government has tried to do a backview on a specific locale and come back, again, with "too much data."  That's assuming, of course, that they're bothering to tell the truth on this.

To those of you with data backgrounds, you should take a look at to just how little space calls can be compressed now.  When we're sitting with the ability to have 30 minute voicemails messages through codecs that shrink them so much storage space is no longer an issue, you should probably figure where the NSA, CIA, and DIA have really, really big budgets, and they hire some of the most badass, knowledgeable people around.  If you don't think your local geniuses can't come up with something that is, today, indistinguishable from magic with near unlimited budgets, well... I dunno... you need to be around crazy geniuses more.  :)
 
2013-05-04 02:40:28 PM  

vygramul: El Pachuco: vygramul: Google has less than 1% of the Internet indexed.

(citation needed)

estimates the size of the whole internet as 5 million terabytes, and Google only indexes 0.04% of it


Yah, I sorta found that too but...  Most of the non-indexed stuff is so-called "deep web" files that only appear in response to a specific query - govt records, academic research materials, library catalogs etc.

That said, I'm pretty sure Google has indexed all ICANN-registered URLs plus all pages listed on their site maps.  You know, the things people actually write up and others look at.

Tossing out "less than 1% of teh internets is indexed" might lead some to think there's all these secret pages out there - an Ultra Fark you've never heard of and can't find.

In reality it's more like, oh, you want the genome of the H5N1 virus?  It's 10GB, but here you go.  You want the list of all Kansas City phone numbers with a 245 prefix?  (wall o' numeric text, no names).  You want hourly temperature and rainfall records for Moosejaw Canada for the last 15 years?  1TB, knock yerself out.

Also, I couldn't find anything more specific that some guy's blog with a bare assertion of that "less than 1%."  Wikipedia goes with the safe "The exact percentage of the total of web pages that Google indexes is not known, as it is very difficult to accurately calculate."
 
2013-05-04 02:40:53 PM  

vygramul: Google has less than 1% of the Internet indexed.

But I'm to believe the federal government has 100% of everything indexed, searchable, and completely retrievable easily.


There is another possibility. There's a theory that the whole trope of 'Keep him talking for X minutes more while I finish the trace' was invented and is maintained by the FBI in order to lull criminals into a false sense of security; as long as they don't stay on a telephone line or cell phone for more than a minute they can't be traced. This slip-up could be planted information to make potential terrorists more wary about how they communicate, leading them to do more physical meetings that are more easily noticed and observed by law enforcement.
 
2013-05-04 02:43:36 PM  
images2.wikia.nocookie.net
"Same-sex marriages."
"Patagonia."
"Nader for President!"
 
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