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(Addicting Info)   Comrade Lamar Szmith of Soviet Texasz introduces bill to require Politburo approval before being allowed to publish any scientific papers. до свидания моя родина   ( addictinginfo.org) divider line
    More: Sick, politburos, scientific papers, gold standards  
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6748 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 May 2013 at 1:34 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-04 01:01:35 PM  

Ctrl-Alt-Del: Most of them don't have the balls to make their assertions in a clear, straightforward way.


your call, let me answer it:

- our country is currently run by rich republican business owners
- liberals in science and science-politics are handing all monies to minorities to try and re balance the system.
- republicans and/or christians think they should influence these funding decisions out a of position of moral self-righteousness
- the advent of communication and the internet is fostering  pro-science, pro-liberalism, pro-atheism movements which has republicans and/or christians pushing back even harder
- a divisiveness is growing in our country because of urban liberal hip culture is at war with traditional agrarian  republicans and/or christians people
- fark-all is getting accomplished in the meantime in terms of advancing governmental structure and/or scientific advancement because of all the aforementioned conflicts
 
2013-05-04 01:04:37 PM  

Bondith: Go chemistry.  We're an organometallic catalysis group (I see plants as merely a source of biofuels), and the
 ...
was doing something involving biostats.


i've never met a canadian or canadian scientist that i haven't loved. you don't have to extol the merits of your country. everybody knows it's cool, it's just hard to change countries and getting used to cold weather would be difficult.
 
2013-05-04 01:09:08 PM  

utah dude: Ctrl-Alt-Del: Most of them don't have the balls to make their assertions in a clear, straightforward way.

your call, let me answer it:

- our country is currently run by rich republican business owners
- liberals in science and science-politics are handing all monies to minorities to try and re balance the system.
- republicans and/or christians think they should influence these funding decisions out a of position of moral self-righteousness
- the advent of communication and the internet is fostering  pro-science, pro-liberalism, pro-atheism movements which has republicans and/or christians pushing back even harder
- a divisiveness is growing in our country because of urban liberal hip culture is at war with traditional agrarian  republicans and/or christians people
- fark-all is getting accomplished in the meantime in terms of advancing governmental structure and/or scientific advancement because of all the aforementioned conflicts


Heh. That wasn't directed at you, dude. But thanks for being the first to jump in the pool. I throw the sarcasm around sometimes too, but my comment was directed at those who do it fairly regularly as a substitute for discussion rather than a tool within a discussion to make a point
 
2013-05-04 01:10:44 PM  

utah dude: Bondith: Go chemistry.  We're an organometallic catalysis group (I see plants as merely a source of biofuels), and the
 ...
was doing something involving biostats.

i've never met a canadian or canadian scientist that i haven't loved. you don't have to extol the merits of your country. everybody knows it's cool, it's just hard to change countries and getting used to cold weather would be difficult.


*beams*  This thread got warm and fuzzy in a hurry.

Canadian government scientists aren't allowed to report findings now without getting approval from their overseers.  I feel your pain.

/PS, Vancouver's not that cold, and there are a lot of "herbal supplements" there.
 
2013-05-04 01:12:05 PM  

Ctrl-Alt-Del: Heh. That wasn't directed at you, dude. But thanks for being the first to jump in the pool. I throw the sarcasm around sometimes too, but my comment was directed at those who do it fairly regularly as a substitute for discussion rather than a tool within a discussion to make a point


well, it's a hell of a lot safer to be silent or hide behind sarcasm then be arrested, jailed, fired, pariah'd, etc. these days.
 
2013-05-04 01:13:29 PM  

Bondith: /PS, Vancouver's not that cold, and there are a lot of "herbal supplements" there.


PCR-marker based Cannabisbreeding. joy.
 
2013-05-04 01:16:04 PM  

utah dude: Bondith: /PS, Vancouver's not that cold, and there are a lot of "herbal supplements" there.

PCR-marker based Cannabisbreeding. joy.


I understand the part about changing countries being hard.  There comes a time when you just want some stability and not have to move every few months or years.  I've been in grad school for the better part of a decade now, with a gap in the middle.  Longest I've stayed in one residence is three years.  I am truly sick and tired of packing up all my possessions.

A steady paycheque would be nice, too, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
 
2013-05-04 01:26:28 PM  

Mrtraveler01: dickfreckle: Benevolent Misanthrope: Too late.  I dont think anyone sees America as having scientific or political integrity any more.

This pisses me off. We were once a nation that held a dead man's promise to go the moon by the decade's end.

And we did it. Math and science were sexy. Great minds were given carte blanche to do what they do. It was an era when "American exceptionalism" actually existed beyond our proclivity for producing a war machine. You didn't fark with America in, I dunno, 1969.

These days we are a joke, and seem to take pride in it.

Amen:


WTF? Vegan creationists?

Not a single redeeming quality.
 
2013-05-04 01:41:12 PM  

utah dude: Ctrl-Alt-Del: Most of them don't have the balls to make their assertions in a clear, straightforward way.

your call, let me answer it:

- our country is currently run by rich republican business owners
- liberals in science and science-politics are handing all monies to minorities to try and re balance the system.
- republicans and/or christians think they should influence these funding decisions out a of position of moral self-righteousness
- the advent of communication and the internet is fostering  pro-science, pro-liberalism, pro-atheism movements which has republicans and/or christians pushing back even harder
- a divisiveness is growing in our country because of urban liberal hip culture is at war with traditional agrarian  republicans and/or christians people
- fark-all is getting accomplished in the meantime in terms of advancing governmental structure and/or scientific advancement because of all the aforementioned conflicts


Oh, it's much more basic than that.  The GOP is an authoritarian party and the authoritarians always go after the intellectuals first.
 
2013-05-04 01:47:24 PM  

Mentat: Oh, it's much more basic than that.  The GOP is an authoritarian party and the authoritarians always go after the intellectuals first.


which is gay, because i'm an intellectual and a GOP member.
 
2013-05-04 02:16:02 PM  

utah dude: liberals in science and science-politics are handing all monies to minorities to try and re balance the system.


wat
 
2013-05-04 02:16:38 PM  

utah dude: Mentat: Oh, it's much more basic than that.  The GOP is an authoritarian party and the authoritarians always go after the intellectuals first.

which is gay, because i'm an intellectual and a GOP member.


Call me crazy, but an intellectual would be above calling something "gay" which is non-sexual in nature.
 
2013-05-04 02:20:30 PM  

utah dude: Mentat: Oh, it's much more basic than that.  The GOP is an authoritarian party and the authoritarians always go after the intellectuals first.

which is gay, because i'm an intellectual and a GOP member.


...why?  Why be part of a party that is so dedicated to working against your interests?

Do the rest of them know?  I'd imagine they'd chase you out if they knew you were some sort of pointy-headed academic.
 
2013-05-04 02:25:48 PM  
So long as the political officer's identity is a secret and he is killed in the first half of the movie, I'm fine with that.

blog.blinkbox.com
//Never wanted to visit Montana
 
2013-05-04 02:33:12 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: The government shouldn't be in the business of funding research anyway.


For your sake I hope you're trolling.  That's possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read.
 
2013-05-04 02:36:14 PM  

Epoch_Zero: Spot the Difference:
[www.50states.com image 384x256]
[www.theflagshop.co.uk image 533x333]


Iran is more highly educated.
 
2013-05-04 02:41:42 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Amen:

[www.addictinginfo.org image 525x700]


Tell me that's not real.  TELL ME IT'S NOT REAL!!!!!
 
2013-05-04 02:43:54 PM  

Don't Troll Me Bro!: For your sake I hope you're trolling. That's possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read.


Lewis and Clarke's expedition was labeled as a science mission in the course of it being funded.
 
2013-05-04 02:48:31 PM  
 
2013-05-04 02:58:54 PM  

Don't Troll Me Bro!: AverageAmericanGuy: The government shouldn't be in the business of funding research anyway.

For your sake I hope you're trolling.  That's possibly the dumbest thing I've ever read.


Think about how smart the average american guy is.
 
2013-05-04 03:19:58 PM  

make me some tea: Benevolent Misanthrope: Congressman Lamar Smith is a leading example as to the disconnect within the Republican Party and reality. His "improvement" would compromise scientific research, and dismantle what little America has left for integrity.

Too late.  I dont think anyone sees America as having scientific or political integrity any more.

Pretty much. We've ceded that to the Asians and the Europeans.


So much for the American hegemony.
 
2013-05-04 03:32:27 PM  

fusillade762: Here guys, I'll save you the trouble (though the draft is only 2 pages long):

[i39.tinypic.com image 471x552]

"Finest quality", "Ground breaking", "Utmost importance"? How does anyone get away with trying to pass a law with such vague-ass language?


The worst thing that gets me is that with such powerful language any moron can take research like the penguin spray shiat research and say "Why are we looking at how far a penguin can squirt it's shiat?" Not that such research would be particularly useful to people who design very small, very powerful spary or mixer nozzles. Adding this layer of "accountability" by more bureacrats only further stifles research. The process for grants is already hard enough, what with having to rigorously justify research and all, but also because of the limited funding we already get.

Rant:
At work, we have an apparatus designed by some USGS guy so he could split off jars of water equally so that each sp-lit jar will have equal concentrations of sand, water, pesticides, etc. Well, the design sorta works, and can be greatly improved. I can't build a new one because of how stretched our schedules are, which greatly diminishes the quality of our laboratory results, especially since it is a low tech problem that directly affects high tech post-processing (chemical assays, spectrometers, etc) by other scientists. If the splitter worked correctly, we'd have much more confidence in our results because we take out many more variables.

Our work is already hobbled enough as it is because of management issues related to lack of funding. We are stretched so thin we make lots of costly mistakes, can't calmly think through our designs, and have to scrounge around for scrap metal and instruments, so lots of money is also wasted that way. It's easier, faster, and cheaper to take your time and do it right the first time. I see this every day. If you have a bug up your ass about cutting funding, you should give us more grant money and time on the front end so we don't have to go back later and spend more salary money cleaning up.
 
2013-05-04 03:34:15 PM  

Alphax: whidbey: It is the single most stupid thing we've been forced to comment on..

LOLWUT?


No kidding. So drunk I don't even remember making the comment. Not sure why I was anti-Navy, either.

A fresh perspective however shows that this proposed shiat is scary and does need to be commented on.
Don't want a bunch of flat-earthers "approving" science.
 
2013-05-04 03:38:44 PM  

Zeppelininthesky: Why is this farkstick in charge of anything


ftfy
 
2013-05-04 03:43:57 PM  

utah dude: Mentat: Oh, it's much more basic than that.  The GOP is an authoritarian party and the authoritarians always go after the intellectuals first.

which is gay, because i'm an intellectual and a GOP member.


Apparently not intellectual enough to avoid using  "gay" to mean "bad" or "stupid". Amazing that someone with so much education is still using fifth grade slurs
 
2013-05-04 04:05:56 PM  

Ctrl-Alt-Del: utah dude: Mentat: Oh, it's much more basic than that.  The GOP is an authoritarian party and the authoritarians always go after the intellectuals first.

which is gay, because i'm an intellectual and a GOP member.

Apparently not intellectual enough to avoid using  "gay" to mean "bad" or "stupid". Amazing that someone with so much education is still using fifth grade slurs


hey i was using 'gay' before it was outted for furthering negative stereotypes. give me the right to squat on my fifth grade vocabulary. also, i want the rainbow back. and purple, too.
 
2013-05-04 04:11:46 PM  

utah dude: Ctrl-Alt-Del: utah dude: Mentat: Oh, it's much more basic than that.  The GOP is an authoritarian party and the authoritarians always go after the intellectuals first.

which is gay, because i'm an intellectual and a GOP member.

Apparently not intellectual enough to avoid using  "gay" to mean "bad" or "stupid". Amazing that someone with so much education is still using fifth grade slurs

hey i was using 'gay' before it was outted for furthering negative stereotypes. give me the right to squat on my fifth grade vocabulary. also, i want the rainbow back. and purple, too.


You sound repressed.

/NTTAWWT.
 
2013-05-04 04:59:37 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: You sound repressed.

/NTTAWWT.


yah rite i wish i was gay but i'm not attracted to guys so i should probably be straight instead.
 
2013-05-04 05:20:56 PM  

utah dude: Ctrl-Alt-Del: utah dude: Mentat: Oh, it's much more basic than that.  The GOP is an authoritarian party and the authoritarians always go after the intellectuals first.

which is gay, because i'm an intellectual and a GOP member.

Apparently not intellectual enough to avoid using  "gay" to mean "bad" or "stupid". Amazing that someone with so much education is still using fifth grade slurs

hey i was using 'gay' before it was outted for furthering negative stereotypes. give me the right to squat on my fifth grade vocabulary. also, i want the rainbow back. and purple, too.


And watching you try to justify that usage as OK when called out on it fits in perfectly with the "I'm a GOP member" as well
 
2013-05-04 05:50:54 PM  

Ctrl-Alt-Del: utah dude: Ctrl-Alt-Del: utah dude: Mentat: Oh, it's much more basic than that.  The GOP is an authoritarian party and the authoritarians always go after the intellectuals first.

which is gay, because i'm an intellectual and a GOP member.

Apparently not intellectual enough to avoid using  "gay" to mean "bad" or "stupid". Amazing that someone with so much education is still using fifth grade slurs

hey i was using 'gay' before it was outted for furthering negative stereotypes. give me the right to squat on my fifth grade vocabulary. also, i want the rainbow back. and purple, too.

And watching you try to justify that usage as OK when called out on it fits in perfectly with the "I'm a GOP member" as well


Also note earlier (nonsensical) assertions about minorities and use of BSABSVR.  Brian?  Is that you?
 
2013-05-04 05:52:24 PM  

utah dude: cameroncrazy1984: You sound repressed.

/NTTAWWT.

yah rite i wish i was gay but i'm not attracted to guys so i should probably be straight instead.


Your grammar and syntax also suggests that you are not a member of the intellectual class that you so wish you were.
 
2013-05-04 05:58:51 PM  
Also, 'gay' as a slur against homosexuals is the only negative meaning that word ever had.  So unless your sentence was supposed to mean, "it is a happy and cheerful thing that the GOP hates me even though I am a party member," you're a liar/really special kind of buffoon.
 
2013-05-04 06:10:18 PM  

TheBigJerk: Also, 'gay' as a slur against homosexuals is the only negative meaning that word ever had.  So unless your sentence was supposed to mean, "it is a happy and cheerful thing that the GOP hates me even though I am a party member," you're a liar/really special kind of buffoon.


except when it meant 'happy', but re-writing history. u libs is good at dat.
 
2013-05-04 06:11:14 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: so wish you were.


or so wish i WASN'T. haha. ur teh awesome. go team.
 
2013-05-04 06:50:05 PM  

utah dude: TheBigJerk: Also, 'gay' as a slur against homosexuals is the only negative meaning that word ever had.  So unless your sentence was supposed to mean, "it is a happy and cheerful thing that the GOP hates me even though I am a party member," you're a liar/really special kind of buffoon.

except when it meant 'happy', but re-writing history. u libs is good at dat.


Reading, it's fundamental.
 
2013-05-04 07:00:18 PM  

utah dude: TheBigJerk: Also, 'gay' as a slur against homosexuals is the only negative meaning that word ever had.  So unless your sentence was supposed to mean, "it is a happy and cheerful thing that the GOP hates me even though I am a party member," you're a liar/really special kind of buffoon.

except when it meant 'happy', but re-writing history. u libs is good at dat.


Yeah - I especially like "Bush kept us safe for 8 years" - that was some great re-writing.
 
2013-05-04 07:22:23 PM  

Bondith: Your run of the mill troll shouldn't be able to come up with this:

"the aromats? nah brah, it was all over after i saw the UV absorption bands in those other conjugated pi systems. damn. that's some sexy resonance."


He's never been serious about trolling. I have him Farkied as "troll troll troll your boat".
 
2013-05-04 08:27:52 PM  

utah dude: Mentat: Oh, it's much more basic than that.  The GOP is an authoritarian party and the authoritarians always go after the intellectuals first.

which is gay, because i'm an intellectual and a GOP member.


Based on your posts in this thread, I'm going to have to challenge you on the intellectual label.
 
2013-05-04 08:42:28 PM  

Mentat: utah dude: Mentat: Oh, it's much more basic than that.  The GOP is an authoritarian party and the authoritarians always go after the intellectuals first.

which is gay, because i'm an intellectual and a GOP member.

Based on your posts in this thread, I'm going to have to challenge you on the intellectual label.


Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if he were a real scientist. But his trolling is neither interesting nor funny, so Ignore it is
 
2013-05-04 10:51:28 PM  

ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: utah dude: TheBigJerk: Also, 'gay' as a slur against homosexuals is the only negative meaning that word ever had.  So unless your sentence was supposed to mean, "it is a happy and cheerful thing that the GOP hates me even though I am a party member," you're a liar/really special kind of buffoon.

except when it meant 'happy', but re-writing history. u libs is good at dat.

Reading, it's fundamental.


Seriously.
 
2013-05-05 12:27:03 AM  

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Shaggy_C: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: Ah, so you definitely don't understand science funding. You could have just said that from the beginning, you know.

You're right; I forgot that most scientists live as paupers.  The money they receive from grants is used in their experiments, normally as fuel for the Bunsen burners, though sometimes they also place stacks of hundred dollar bills in different liquids like sulfuric acid or liquid nitrogen.

No, you forgot that most scientists don't get their salaries from government grants, which is what this bill pertains to.  But we already know that reality never stops you from derping your derp here on Fark, so I guess your igorance shouldn't surprise me.


Actually, at universities they do.  A professor in the sciences on the tenure track who does not pull down enough grant money to support himself and a raft of grad students and postdocs becomes an ex-scientist rather quickly.
 
2013-05-05 12:46:23 AM  
50%+ of every grant goes directly to the University to cover overhead.  A huge chuck of the rest goes to paying salaries, benefits and tuition.  The professor usually only gets a fraction of his salary from an individual grant, if any.  Then you have to account for travel and publication costs which run into the thousands.  Whatever is left goes to actual science, which usually isn't very much.
 
2013-05-05 04:00:42 AM  

Mentat: 50%+ of every grant goes directly to the University to cover overhead.  A huge chuck of the rest goes to paying salaries, benefits and tuition.  The professor usually only gets a fraction of his salary from an individual grant, if any.  Then you have to account for travel and publication costs which run into the thousands.  Whatever is left goes to actual science, which usually isn't very much.


Things do cost things. Clean labs, equipment maintenance etc.

Or do you imagine science takes place by magic?
 
2013-05-05 06:43:53 AM  

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Mrtraveler01: Amen:

[www.addictinginfo.org image 525x700]

Tell me that's not real.  TELL ME IT'S NOT REAL!!!!!



It's real, unfortunately. The second page is worse Link
 
2013-05-05 08:13:56 AM  

OgreMagi: Constitutionally tricky.  While the 1st Amendment says no, accepting federal money opens the door to all kinds of government interference.  In the long run, I would hope the Supreme Court says, "oh hellz no!"


I would hope the other members of the House fail to pass this bill (which we know the GOP will force through).  At least the Senate would not even take this piece of legislation into consideration.
 
2013-05-05 10:28:31 AM  

fusillade762: Here guys, I'll save you the trouble (though the draft is only 2 pages long):

[i39.tinypic.com image 471x552]

"Finest quality", "Ground breaking", "Utmost importance"? How does anyone get away with trying to pass a law with such vague-ass language?


That's US legislation for you; or at least, US legislation that isn't being written and proposed by some corporate backer.

Skullcrusher is, for once, actually a bit(but just a bit) right on this one. The bill only requires the Director to post a public statement that each funded research project is all that crap under section a on their website. If made into law, this would certainly lead to an increase in "paperwork" at the NSF (they'd need someone to write out all that pablum for each project), but it wouldn't really stop any funding since all it requires is that the Director say those things about each project.

What's actually wrong about this is two-fold. First, research doesn't work that way. Science isn't like a Masters of Orion tech tree; you don't just say, "I'm going to research 20% more efficient heart meds", assign six scientists, and out pop those heart meds 6 years later. Research is a lot more nebulous than that, and as such, you can't always say exactly what the marketable result of any specific research proposal is going to be before starting it, or if it will have directly marketable results. For instances, understanding redshift is hella useful, but nobody makes actual money off of it; if cosmological and physics research of the early 1900s had endured Mr. Smith's rule we'd be a hell of a lot stupier, and know a lot less about molecular physics right now. Secondly, while Skull's right that it doesn't explicitly establish a political review committee, it does potentially subject NSF-funded research to political review depending on who, exactly, gets to make those section b "Transfer of Funds" decisions. The bill is vague on that (and everything), but considering Congress is the branch of government which holds both the purse-strings, and Smith sits on the Science committee, and there's a long tradition of Congressional committees making those sorts of determinations, it's not much of a leap to suggest it'll be Congress and the Science committee specifically. Even if hearings weren't held, Congress could still aplly a political test legislatively though a follow-up bill defining section b procedure. For instance, another bill could be proposed and passed which would lay out how section b decisions are supposed to be made in detail, and that rubric -which the NSF would be forced to comply with- would be include the political test to proposed research in its body, thereby applying such a test without direct Congressional intervention on each instance.
 
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