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(Yahoo)   You know how the Romans rounded up early Christians and fed them to the Lions? Yeah, that never happened   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 391
    More: Obvious, Early Christian, moss, suffering, University of Notre Dame  
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16521 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 May 2013 at 7:02 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-03 05:22:53 PM
Moss contends that when Christians were executed, it was often not because of their religious beliefs but because they wouldn't follow Roman rules. Many laws that led to early Christians' execution were not specifically targeted at them-such as a law requiring all Roman citizens to engage in a public sacrifice to the gods-but their refusal to observe those laws and other mores of Roman society led to their deaths.

It's a fine hair she's splitting, but it makes sense.
 
2013-05-03 05:23:51 PM
Yeah, that never happened


Neither did this article,subby. Bad link.
 
2013-05-03 05:33:45 PM

Lsherm: Moss contends that when Christians were executed, it was often not because of their religious beliefs but because they wouldn't follow Roman rules. Many laws that led to early Christians' execution were not specifically targeted at them-such as a law requiring all Roman citizens to engage in a public sacrifice to the gods-but their refusal to observe those laws and other mores of Roman society led to their deaths.

It's a fine hair she's splitting, but it makes sense.


Yep, it's they same reason Judea was a thorn in the Roman's side. "Crikey! You don't have to BELIEVE the Emperor's a god, just go through the motions like everyone else."
 
2013-05-03 05:37:49 PM
What's this, then? "Romanes eunt domus"? People called Romanes, they go, the house?
 
2013-05-03 05:39:00 PM
You know how the Bible has a lot of stories in it?  Yeah, none of that happened either
 
2013-05-03 05:44:46 PM
The Romans executed Christians who wouldn't sacrifice to the gods. They wouldn't sacrifice to the gods BECAUSE they were Christian. QED.
 
2013-05-03 05:45:32 PM
Romans mostly regarded the religion's practitioners as meddlesome members of a superstitious cult.

If the ones back then are like the ones today then that's all it really takes for them to cry that they're being persecuted.
 
2013-05-03 05:55:58 PM
Moss calls early Christians "rude, subversive and disrespectful,"

Hmmm...
 
2013-05-03 06:01:29 PM
I missed this episode of Ancient Aliens
 
2013-05-03 06:02:18 PM

AdolfOliverPanties: Moss calls early Christians "rude, subversive and disrespectful,"

Hmmm...


yeah, I caught that as well.  i'm guessing not much has changed in 2000 odd years.
 
2013-05-03 06:15:19 PM

Lsherm: Moss contends that when Christians were executed, it was often not because of their religious beliefs but because they wouldn't follow Roman rules. Many laws that led to early Christians' execution were not specifically targeted at them-such as a law requiring all Roman citizens to engage in a public sacrifice to the gods-but their refusal to observe those laws and other mores of Roman society led to their deaths.

It's a fine hair she's splitting, but it makes sense.


Um, one of their beliefs was a belief in one diety.  So, um, public sacrifices to another would violate their religion.  So not following Roman law but following Christian belief was why they were punished.  So, fine, not because they were Christian but because they weren't Roman enough.

"I didn't pull you over because you were speeding.  I pulled you over because you were traveling faster than 55 mph."
 
2013-05-03 06:22:30 PM

jehovahs witness protection: I missed this episode of Ancient Aliens


DOLT!  YOU HAVE SUMMONED THE ANCIENT ALIENS GUY!!!!!!

i.imgflip.com
 
2013-05-03 06:28:28 PM
i139.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-03 06:32:56 PM

Lsherm: Moss contends that when Christians were executed, it was often not because of their religious beliefs but because they wouldn't follow Roman rules. Many laws that led to early Christians' execution were not specifically targeted at them-such as a law requiring all Roman citizens to engage in a public sacrifice to the gods-but their refusal to observe those laws and other mores of Roman society led to their deaths.

It's a fine hair she's splitting, but it makes sense.


But was the intent to essentially ban Christianity? It's like indirectly closing down abortion clinics by putting absurd requirements on either those clinics or physicians.
 
2013-05-03 06:36:12 PM
Bontesla:

But was the intent to essentially ban Christianity? It's like indirectly closing down abortion clinics by putting absurd requirements on either those clinics or physicians.

no, I don't think so.  the Romans were pretty laid back about religion.  as long as you weren't disruptive and paid your taxes on time they didn't care what god or gods you worshiped.  the Christians tho...they went out of their way to be offensive.  And the Roman way of dealing with 'offensive' was usually to nail your whiny hide to a cross and then get back to the orgy.

ok, i'm exaggerating...but yeah, the Romans really didn't care about you unless you broke their laws and knocked over stuff and broke things.
 
2013-05-03 06:38:50 PM

Bontesla: But was the intent to essentially ban Christianity?


The Romans were really xenophobic.

We get the word "barbarian" from their implication that foreigners sound like sheep when they talk.

In Rome, it was illegal to import barbarian foods, like sausages.

So yes, the intent was to ban Christianity but only as part of an umbrella ban on external culture.
 
2013-05-03 06:41:43 PM

doglover: Bontesla: But was the intent to essentially ban Christianity?

The Romans were really xenophobic.


um...no they weren't.  militaristic yes.  corrupt? sure, esp when they were in decline.  xenophobic?  not even close.  they absorbed cultures, not destroyed them.  well...except for the druids.  nobody is really sure what they did to piss of Caesar so badly.  maybe they killed his dog or something.
 
2013-05-03 06:44:12 PM

Lsherm: It's a fine hair she's splitting, but it makes sense.


It does make sense, but I would also argue that there were lots of laws that were directly incompatible with Christianity. That in itself is a form of religious persecution.

I'd also take issue with their status as martyrs. Sure, they might have been killed for failing to obey Roman law, but they were doing that because of their religion. Either way, they died because of their religious identity.
 
2013-05-03 06:44:36 PM
Prove it.
 
2013-05-03 06:48:11 PM
This article is yet more proof of modern Christian persecution.

/When you set up a religion that rewards persecution with infinite live in heaven, the followers are going to look for any excuse to claim they're persecuted.
 
2013-05-03 06:50:05 PM
Fubini:
I'd also take issue with their status as martyrs. Sure, they might have been killed for failing to obey Roman law, but they were doing that because of their religion. Either way, they died because of their religious identity.

if they went out of their way to break roman law tho...

think of it this way - what happens if you break our laws today?  sure, you might claim that your god(s) say its ok to say...murder abortion doctors.  But our laws say abortion is legal and that killing a provider is murder.  do we let someone go who committed murder just because their god(s) would approve of their actions?  is our society guilty of religious persecution because we punish someone harshly for murdering an abortion doctor?

something to think about when you consider the issue of early christians going out of their way to break Roman laws and play smash mouth politics with Roman society.
 
2013-05-03 06:50:54 PM
live = life...
 
2013-05-03 06:53:47 PM
FTFA: Moss contends that when Christians were executed, it was often not because of their religious beliefs but because they wouldn't follow Roman rules. Many laws that led to early Christians' execution were not specifically targeted at them-such as a law requiring all Roman citizens to engage in a public sacrifice to the gods-but their refusal to observe those laws and other mores of Roman society led to their deaths. Moss calls early Christians "rude, subversive and disrespectful," noting that they refused to swear oaths, join the military or participate in any other part of Roman society.

i.imgur.com

I'm sure that as a scholar she's addressed this, but the issues wasn't belief in the Hebrew God or an incarnate Christ. The issue was largely that Christians and Jews refused to participate in activities that sanctioned their marginalization and gave fealty to the Roman Gods. Since political and social participation was also participation in Roman religio, Galilean monotheists wouldn't swear or offer sacrifice.
 
2013-05-03 07:05:54 PM
So...Ray Davies was wrong?

Well the Roman promoters really did things right
They needed a show that would clearly excite
The attendance was sparse so they put on a fight
Threw the Christians to the lions, sold out every night
 
2013-05-03 07:08:50 PM
Only happened for 10 years is still a long way from never happened.
 
2013-05-03 07:09:18 PM
Oh, you're no fun anymore.
 
2013-05-03 07:09:39 PM
They actually threw them to the kittens and they all died of toxoplasmosis.
 
2013-05-03 07:10:28 PM
Cult followers making things up? It'll never happen.
 
2013-05-03 07:11:48 PM
Fed them to lions?  No, that ain't it at all.  They fed them to the Alliance.

media.tumblr.com
 
2013-05-03 07:12:18 PM
So it's a theory.  Fine.
 
2013-05-03 07:12:59 PM

whither_apophis: Lsherm: Moss contends that when Christians were executed, it was often not because of their religious beliefs but because they wouldn't follow Roman rules. Many laws that led to early Christians' execution were not specifically targeted at them-such as a law requiring all Roman citizens to engage in a public sacrifice to the gods-but their refusal to observe those laws and other mores of Roman society led to their deaths.

It's a fine hair she's splitting, but it makes sense.

Yep, it's they same reason Judea was a thorn in the Roman's side. "Crikey! You don't have to BELIEVE the Emperor's a god, just go through the motions like everyone else."


Excuse me. Are you the Judean People's Front?
 
2013-05-03 07:13:36 PM

genner: Only happened for 10 years is still a long way from never happened.


It's more appropriate to say that it didn't happen the way we imagine it.  Which it would pretty much have to, or else Christianity would have never spread.

But, doesn't it FEEL right to say that Christians were fed to lions in ancient Rome?
 
2013-05-03 07:14:09 PM

Bontesla: But was the intent to essentially ban Christianity? It's like indirectly closing down abortion clinics by putting absurd requirements on either those clinics or physicians.


Pretty much.   That, and it was another tax.

Nothing will draw down the full fury of governmental power than farking with their cash flow.
 
2013-05-03 07:14:51 PM

reillan: genner: Only happened for 10 years is still a long way from never happened.

It's more appropriate to say that it didn't happen the way we imagine it.  Which it would pretty much have to, or else Christianity would have never spread.

But, doesn't it FEEL right to say that Christians were fed to lions in ancient Rome?


It's feels right because they were.....for at least 10 years.
 
2013-05-03 07:15:26 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Prove it.


[fryseewhatyoudidthere.jpg]
 
2013-05-03 07:15:29 PM
LOL she's full of crap.
 
2013-05-03 07:15:32 PM
You want to talk persecution?

www.paranormal-events-uk.co.uk

You should live so long...
 
Ehh
2013-05-03 07:15:50 PM
Do the (Detroit?) Lions even eat people?

/capitalization
 
2013-05-03 07:15:56 PM

Weaver95: something to think about when you consider the issue of early christians going out of their way to break Roman laws and play smash mouth politics with Roman society.


Muslims not taking off the hijab so that they can be identified in public... a no headscarf rule applies to everyone equally, right?

Muslims posting on fundie web sites, participating in discussions that lead towards radicalization... this shouldn't lead to any monitoring, or being added to some stupid list.

Roman society wasn't "free" like American society is supposed to be, but if you want to split hairs about Christians breaking laws that conflict with Christian practice, why shouldn't fundie a-hole Christians split the same semantic hairs when it comes to the treatment of religious minorities in this country?

/Yes, Christians can be assholes in this society, no doubt. Doesn't mean you should treat them all like they are breaking the rules, being public nuisances... no more than crazy ass Christians should do the same to Muslims in this country.

Bontesla: But was the intent to essentially ban Christianity? It's like indirectly closing down abortion clinics by putting absurd requirements on either those clinics or physicians.


How about the no head scarf laws over in Europe?  That wouldn't (and shouldn't) work over here in fundieland.
 
2013-05-03 07:15:57 PM
Whoah... did the font just change on mobile.. or did I break something..
 
2013-05-03 07:16:29 PM

doglover: Bontesla: But was the intent to essentially ban Christianity?

The Romans were really xenophobic.

We get the word "barbarian" from their implication that foreigners sound like sheep when they talk.

In Rome, it was illegal to import barbarian foods, like sausages.

So yes, the intent was to ban Christianity but only as part of an umbrella ban on external culture.


Interesting, I'd learned that the word had come from the custom of many of the 'barbarian' tribes to not shave, and that the term came from the same root as 'barber' and was a reference to their excessive hairiness.

Googling around a bit it looks like both theories are considered plausible.
 
2013-05-03 07:16:47 PM
Excuse me. Are you the Judean People's Front?

No, we are the People's front of Judea.

/duh
 
2013-05-03 07:17:18 PM
I don't know; those stories have been told for millennia. If they grew a little in the telling; that's to be expected. But, what is certian is; the Romans weren't too nice to the early Christians. And that was the status quo for 3 centuries.

/ We barely have the names of all of the emperors; much less when they ruled nailed down. Who knows what really happened? It wouldn't have been too unusual for criminals to be thrown to lions.
 
2013-05-03 07:17:59 PM
"Moss contends that when Christians were executed, it was often not because of their religious beliefs but because they wouldn't follow Roman rules. Many laws that led to early Christians' execution were not specifically targeted at them-such as a law requiring all Roman citizens to engage in a public sacrifice to the gods-but their refusal to observe those laws and other mores of Roman society led to their deaths. "

So, if I were a Jehovah's Witness (I'm not,) and the US chose to prosecute me for refusing to register for the draft, said prosecution would have nothing to do with my religious convictions?

Sure, that makes sense.

There's enough about Christian mythology that is patently absurd without whipping up this dodgy bit of scholarship.
 
2013-05-03 07:18:05 PM
You mean "Caligula" and all those gladiator movies weren't documentaries?!?
 
2013-05-03 07:18:19 PM
+

Weaver95: doglover: Bontesla: But was the intent to essentially ban Christianity?

The Romans were really xenophobic.

um...no they weren't.  militaristic yes.  corrupt? sure, esp when they were in decline.  xenophobic?  not even close.  they absorbed cultures, not destroyed them.  well...except for the druids.  nobody is really sure what they did to piss of Caesar so badly.  maybe they killed his dog or something.


They stood in his way, that's all.
 
2013-05-03 07:18:51 PM

Lsherm: It's a fine hair she's splitting, but it makes sense.


We aren't punishing you because of your religion, we are punishing you because you aren't following ours!

/an extremely fine hair
 
2013-05-03 07:19:07 PM

genner: reillan: genner: Only happened for 10 years is still a long way from never happened.

It's more appropriate to say that it didn't happen the way we imagine it.  Which it would pretty much have to, or else Christianity would have never spread.

But, doesn't it FEEL right to say that Christians were fed to lions in ancient Rome?

It's feels right because they were.....for at least 10 years.


"The government actively persecuted Christians for only about 10 years, Moss suggests, and even then intermittently. And, she says, many of the best known early stories of brave Christian martyrs were entirely fabricated."
"Sunday school tales of early Christians being rounded up at their secret catacomb meetings and thrown to the lions by evil Romans are mere fairy tales"

Actively persecuted != fed to lions
 
2013-05-03 07:20:18 PM
He who writes history(christians being sacrificed) will get 12% of people to believe the shiat as well as to pay 10% wages to the glorious cult leader(pope).

/History as written by a Republican: 60% of it may be factual, based on a true story.
 
2013-05-03 07:20:33 PM

doglover: We get the word "barbarian" from their implication that foreigners sound like sheep when they talk.


The word for foreigner in Greek is "barbaros", which is the same root for beard.
 
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