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(Al Jazeera)   Google recognizes the State of Palestine. Did you mean: Gaza and the West Bank   (aljazeera.com) divider line 49
    More: Interesting, State of Palestine, Palestine, West Bank, Gaza, Google, Foreign Affairs Minister of Israel, International Politics, Palestinian territories  
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4180 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 May 2013 at 5:48 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-05-03 05:56:19 PM  
5 votes:
There are no such people as Palestinians nor is there a country named Palestine. Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example. Those people euphemistically called Palestinians are actually from Jordan and that area.
2013-05-03 06:04:18 PM  
4 votes:
The Palestinian people have a right to their own self determination.

Israel is a despotic, aparthied "country".
2013-05-03 07:58:06 PM  
3 votes:
Ahh, building a religious state in the most volatile region in the world with arbitrary borders, foreign in tests, and military aid.

What could possibly go wrong.
2013-05-03 05:13:23 PM  
3 votes:

Tatsuma: Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?


Obviously, not you.
2013-05-03 05:09:40 PM  
3 votes:
Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?
2013-05-03 07:13:50 PM  
2 votes:

Tatsuma: Slesfo: I don't know why he's making this argument. The Muslims had the land longer consecutively (under the Ottoman Empire), than the Jews did collectively, and the Jews haven't had it since the Greeks took it from them... more than 2000 years ago. This is kinda like arguing that I have the right to my late grandfather's stolen car even though it's been bought, sold, and modified a dozen times since, and the current owner has had it longer than he ever did.

We lived under various occupiers in our land for the last 1877 years since the destruction of our Beit HaMikdash. Whether it was the Greeks, or the Romans, or the various Muslim empires fighting each others, we were still living on our land in and the year 5708, or 1948, we finally had our own state again, on the land we've lived, live and will continue to live on. Israel was, is, and will always be ours.

[www.haaretz.com image 640x370]


You mean Canaan?

upload.wikimedia.org
2013-05-03 06:26:18 PM  
2 votes:

ArcadianRefugee: Who was king (or president, prime minister, whatever) of Israel in 1931?


We didn't have a prime minister in 1931. However, we had a country here and lived on that land for 2,000 years before Mohammed came to this earth and his troops invaded our country and colonized. We never left either, though a sizable portion of our population was exiled.

Your line of argument is quite ironic considering your call yourself 'Arcadian Refugee'
2013-05-03 06:16:27 PM  
2 votes:

Jake Havechek: The Palestinian people have a right to their own self determination.


Yup, they've voted for the path of war.  War has consequences.  The path to peace is easy--quit shooting.

They can't do that, though--their whole economy is based around the aid they get for attacking Israel and for being a "victim".  Remove that and they would be far worse off than they are now.
2013-05-03 06:05:33 PM  
2 votes:

Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.

Name one head of state of the country of 'palestine' throughout history, then.

Name one true scotsman.



Robert Burns
2013-05-03 06:02:46 PM  
2 votes:

rikkidoxx: There are no such people as Palestinians nor is there a country named Palestine. Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example. Those people euphemistically called Palestinians are actually from Jordan and that area.


Interesting point - Question, does the land you are born in belong to you? or is that right given to you by another? is so who?
2013-05-03 06:01:23 PM  
2 votes:

mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.


Name one head of state of the country of 'palestine' throughout history, then.
2013-05-03 06:00:17 PM  
2 votes:
rikkidoxx: Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example.

I thought we were an autonomous collective.
2013-05-03 05:55:37 PM  
2 votes:
Good.  Now maybe Israel will stop practicing piracy on shops headed toward Palestinian territorial waters.
2013-05-04 07:32:21 PM  
1 votes:
Regardless of who struck whom first when, those who urge "DEATH TO ALL JUICE" have numbered themselves among my enemies.

Hint: if it's wrong for "Them" to do it to you it's also wrong for you to do to them.

That said, at this point the most sensible thing to do is to nuke the entire "Middle East."


P.S. Actually the above would make me doubly anti-Semitic because the Arabs are Semites too. So sit & twirl, Kahane Chai.
2013-05-03 11:41:06 PM  
1 votes:

studebaker hoch: How about:

Palestine gives Israel all its land.
Israel gives all Palestinians full citizenship and equality.

One state, one people.

/ ducks


Eventually this is what will happen, unless the nutcases in Israel exercise the Samson Option. If you think Islamic terrorism is scary, google that. For those too lazy, serious and respected establishment Israelis have stated that if Israel's existence is threatened, they will bring the whole world down with them. One of their senior and respected historians has suggested that Europe, among others, would be a target. With their nuclear subs Israel has the capability of doing just that. But hey, don't worry about that, be scared of Iran and Syria!!
2013-05-03 09:45:32 PM  
1 votes:
Thunderpipes:

Imagine if Israel had the same moral compass as its terrorist neighbors, including the Palestinians? There would be nothing left of many countries in the Middle East. Israelis are good people, Palestinians are not, period.

Israel killed it's moral compass ~1980 years ago...
2013-05-03 08:58:29 PM  
1 votes:

Clemkadidlefark: Anything to deny the existence of Israel, Israelites.

/I wouldn't stand close to Google


How, exactly, does recognizing Palestine deny the existence of Israel?
2013-05-03 07:51:13 PM  
1 votes:

Tatsuma: Anyway, gotta start getting ready, don't know if I'll have time to post some more before it's time.

So, Shabbat Shalom ya'll, have a nice weekend and all that.


Ah yes, the one day a week where you try to get around the rules that an omnipotent god set out for you.

Brilliant.
2013-05-03 07:43:21 PM  
1 votes:

Tatsuma: Slesfo: I see what you're saying, but we're talking about who has control of a nation, not where a group of people happened to live. Just because i live in an apartment for 20 years doesn't mean i suddenly get the right to own it again, even if i owned it years ago.

Your analogy fails on many levels.


Sure. i could expand it to make it fit better, but my point is that your argument that it should belong to the jews because it belonged to them once, for 800 years is flawed on af ew basic levels.

First, it doesn't add up to 800, it adds up to about  726, (if you count all the way back to the historically dubious Joshua conquest) but you're still counting the Exile as time where it was controlled by Jews, which is strange. If you count from the time of david, the first time Israel was consolidated together in a fashion that would look like an actual nation, that brings the total down to 526

Next, that total time wasn't even  consecutively, mind you- They controlled it, then lost it, then controlled it, then lost it for 70 years, then controlled it again, then lost it again),

Next, that was a very, VERY long time ago, and many different groups have legitimately owned and controlled it since then. The people from whom it was taken had it for a comparable amount of time. Israel only even had it for a longer (broken up) period if you count the Joshua date, which isn't historically a responsible thing to do. It was under Muslim control from 1291 - 1917= 626 years. And they had it that long CONSECUTIVELY. The longest straight period of time that Jews controlled it was much much shorter.

So, God tells me that I get to own a car. I have to Take it from somebody else by force, but at that time in my country, hey, that's how you got a car. So I go take this car.

Woo hoo, I go joy riding, and boy does this car get jacked up, but people still like it. After a while, somebody, let's call him Baby, Comes along, beats me up, and steals it from me for a few years, during which time, i just walk everywhere. Somebody else, let's call him Persi steals it from him, and then says, "hey bro, I'll let you rent it from me."

Sweet. I get my car back! Then somebody else, Let's call her Helen, comes along and jacks him up, and says to me, "Hey, nice car. It's mine now, I'll let you keep riding in it, but you're not gonna be able to really drive it. My buddy here is gonna drive, but you can sorta back-seat drive, cool?"

Then this new guy comes along, let's call him Roman, starts sleeping with Helen in a sort of abusive, love-hate relationship, and takes all of her assets, but is still like, I love you baby. He comes in and says, " Hi. Uh.. Helen was doing this pretty well. I'm gonna do things her way, and just have my bro here drive. Cool. Peace out."

So I'm sitting here in Roman's car, but dammit, I really wanna drive, and i don't like where he's going with it. after a few weeks, I start throwing a hissy fit here in the back seat. Roman gets fed up with this, pulls the car over, yanks me out, beats the shiat out of me, and drives off. 

I'm left to just walk, and the car changes hands a couple of times after that, but then decades later, I see my car again. It was looking pretty nice- lot of the dings I left in it were smoothed out, and it hadn't been in any wrecks recently, like when i was driving, or when the other assholes were driving.

I DGAF though, and I want it back. I start nagging my friend, Aurthur, driving an Aston Martin, to make him give it to me. He can't be bothered, but eventually, after I get run over by a truck and hospitalized, he feels real bad for me, and decides, "hey, this guy needs a car." So he finds the guy driving the car, Mo, kicks him out of the driver's seat, and puts me in the driver's seat. 

So now, here i am, driving my car, and this asshole, Mo, in the back seat, won't stop biatching and moaning about how I took his car.

Why won't he understand that it's rightfully mine? 


Tatsuma:What if I was John Lennon, uh? Ever thought about that, big boy?

I've thought about that many, many times.
2013-05-03 07:33:47 PM  
1 votes:

Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.

Name one head of state of the country of 'palestine' throughout history, then.

Name one true scotsman.


Billy Connolly
2013-05-03 07:25:05 PM  
1 votes:

Tatsuma: Slesfo: I don't know why he's making this argument. The Muslims had the land longer consecutively (under the Ottoman Empire), than the Jews did collectively, and the Jews haven't had it since the Greeks took it from them... more than 2000 years ago. This is kinda like arguing that I have the right to my late grandfather's stolen car even though it's been bought, sold, and modified a dozen times since, and the current owner has had it longer than he ever did.

We lived under various occupiers in our land for the last 1877 years since the destruction of our Beit HaMikdash. Whether it was the Greeks, or the Romans, or the various Muslim empires fighting each others, we were still living on our land in and the year 5708, or 1948, we finally had our own state again, on the land we've lived, live and will continue to live on. Israel was, is, and will always be ours.

[www.haaretz.com image 640x370]


Modern Israel exists as a convenience to the West. It is a proxy warrior in the Middle East.
2013-05-03 07:22:02 PM  
1 votes:

Tatsuma: It's the same name, it's the same language, it's the same people, it's the same currency. Continuation, not recreation.


Israel ceased to exist. A continuation would have had stone house, no cars, no electricity, etc. It's no more a continuation than "NuWho" is a simple 'continuation'. Maybe a reboot, but it seems there is a large chunk missing between parts 1 and 2.

They never identified as such, according to their own leaders and their own intellectuals, until after the Six-Day War, and it only really took a hold after the Yom Kippur war.

And Americans never identified as such until they got sick of British rule. So what?

Tatsuma: There's a reason why more than 80% of Jordanians identify as 'palestinian', it's not because they are refugees, it's because they are more or less from the same mass of people.


Well, any Jordanians living in the West Bank were stripped of their Jordanian citizenship by Jordan in 1988.

Also interesting (to me) is that just as you believe "Israel was always ours" the Palestinians seem to feel the same way about Palestine: "the nation was always there, indeed it is part of the natural order, even when it was submerged in the hearts of its members."

/yes, I am using Wikipedia where there are sources cited
2013-05-03 07:10:48 PM  
1 votes:

goatleggedfellow: Tatsuma: mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.

Name one head of state of the country of 'palestine' throughout history, then.

So they're not a country, just a group of people being driven off their common homeland. People defined by a common history and shared struggle that outsiders can't properly appreciate.

fark 'em. They can find somewhere else in the world to live.


Maybe the palestinians can scatter around the world having been driven from their historic homeland, and live for thousands of years being persecuted and suffering pogroms due to being a suspect minority, until eventually some military leader with a grudge against them conquers many of the countries they have spread to and commits genocide wiping out a large chunk of their population, so then some sort of international agency like the UN might end up ceding them a load of land back in the area of their historic homeland, after which they start to persecute and marginalize the people that have been living there since they were scattered?
2013-05-03 07:05:30 PM  
1 votes:

Tatsuma: ecmoRandomNumbers: No, you weren't, despite what all of the ancient Abrahamic Books of Fantasy tell you.

I could start talking about archeological evidence, but I somehow don't feel like you're interested in a debate, or to change your mind.

Plus, Shabbat is fast approaching


The lack of evidence is what I find more compelling. But, please enlighten.
2013-05-03 07:02:15 PM  
1 votes:

ArcadianRefugee: The modern state of Israel is a recreation of this. It's only a 'continuation' in the sense that, if you stop a movie, you can later continue playing. But that really large gap between part one and part two would seem to indicate that it was not your land for longer than it was. Congratulations on getting it back and all, but to say that it was always your is just emotional mush; no, it wasn't. Any more than, say, New York belongs to the Iroquois.


It's the same name, it's the same language, it's the same people, it's the same currency. Continuation, not recreation.

ArcadianRefugee: So the Palestinians never had an official country named "Palestine", with its own flag and soccer team...but they lived on some of that land, and they identify with it for some reason.


They never identified as such, according to their own leaders and their own intellectuals, until after the Six-Day War, and it only really took a hold after the Yom Kippur war.

There are huge differences today between Gazans and people in Judea and Samaria, because most of the people from Gaza descend from Egyptians, while those in Judea and Samaria tend to be mostly coming from Jordan and the northerners from Syria.

There's a reason why more than 80% of Jordanians identify as 'palestinian', it's not because they are refugees, it's because they are more or less from the same mass of people.
2013-05-03 06:56:40 PM  
1 votes:

ecmoRandomNumbers: No, you weren't, despite what all of the ancient Abrahamic Books of Fantasy tell you.


I could start talking about archeological evidence, but I somehow don't feel like you're interested in a debate, or to change your mind.

Plus, Shabbat is fast approaching
2013-05-03 06:56:14 PM  
1 votes:

Tatsuma: Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?


fark you tats.   You're the reason my friends in Israel are in danger you piece of shiat.
2013-05-03 06:49:49 PM  
1 votes:

Tatsuma: I was a slave in Egypt.


No, you weren't, despite what all of the ancient Abrahamic Books of Fantasy tell you.
2013-05-03 06:44:59 PM  
1 votes:

ArcadianRefugee: So the answer is "there was no country named Israel". When Israel was formed in 1948, it was created so that the Jewish peoples had a place to call home, not because "[they] had a country here and lived on that land 2,000 years ago" (or 500, or even 100). So Jews deserve a place to call their own, but not those who call themselves Palestinians?


We had a Kingdom called the Kingdom of Israel for more than 800 years. Not only did we have a country, but I can literally go ahead and name all of the Kings who ruled over it, the currency, the wars we fought, those we won, those we lost, and so on.

The modern state of Israel is only a continuation of this, not a brand new invention. It's just that the Grace of G-d let us rebuild for ourselves our country and, G-d willing, the Third Temple and welcoming Mashiach soon as well

ArcadianRefugee: If, in 1941, the Jewish people had started calling themselves "Israelis" in deference antiquity and in the hopes they would once again have a home of their own, would you have scoffed at and dismissed them, too?


There were a lot of Palestinian clubs in 1941. You had Palestine Airways, the Palestine Post, you had movies about Proud Palestinians trying to win their land back, you had Palestinian groups on all major American campuses in 1941.

Then Palestine Airways because El Al, the Palestine Post became the Jerusalem Post, and that Proud Palestinian fighter was Ari Ben-Canaan in the movie Exodus, and the Palestinian clubs and groups became Zionist and Israeli groups and clubs.

Until the 1960s, if you had called an Arab 'Palestinian', he would have spit at you for daring calling him a Jew.
2013-05-03 06:42:00 PM  
1 votes:
Judea ceased to exist when it was sacked by Rome in 70AD.

"Israel" is a fake country invented by the U.N.
2013-05-03 06:40:33 PM  
1 votes:

Tatsuma: Israel was, is, and will always be ours.


I don't think so.
2013-05-03 06:38:30 PM  
1 votes:

Slesfo: I don't know why he's making this argument. The Muslims had the land longer consecutively (under the Ottoman Empire), than the Jews did collectively, and the Jews haven't had it since the Greeks took it from them... more than 2000 years ago. This is kinda like arguing that I have the right to my late grandfather's stolen car even though it's been bought, sold, and modified a dozen times since, and the current owner has had it longer than he ever did.


We lived under various occupiers in our land for the last 1877 years since the destruction of our Beit HaMikdash. Whether it was the Greeks, or the Romans, or the various Muslim empires fighting each others, we were still living on our land in and the year 5708, or 1948, we finally had our own state again, on the land we've lived, live and will continue to live on. Israel was, is, and will always be ours.

www.haaretz.com
2013-05-03 06:34:20 PM  
1 votes:

Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: ArcadianRefugee: Who was king (or president, prime minister, whatever) of Israel in 1931?

We didn't have a prime minister in 1931. However, we had a country here and lived on that land for 2,000 years before Mohammed came to this earth and his troops invaded our country and colonized. We never left either, though a sizable portion of our population was exiled.

Your line of argument is quite ironic considering your call yourself 'Arcadian Refugee'

You're 2,000 years old?


I don't know why he's making this argument. The Muslims had the land longer consecutively (under the Ottoman Empire), than the Jews did collectively, and the Jews haven't had it since the Greeks took it from them... more than 2000 years ago. This is kinda like arguing that I have the right to my late grandfather's stolen car even though it's been bought, sold, and modified a dozen times since, and the current owner has had it longer than he ever did.
2013-05-03 06:30:20 PM  
1 votes:

give me doughnuts: mayIFark: hasty ambush: mayIFark: Does that mean the paid shrills of IIDF will now tell us to Bing their propaganda instead of Googling it?

As opposed to the paid shills of Hamas and Hezbollah?

I don't know. Do American taxpayers foot their bills too?


Since the US sends aid to both Gaza and Lebanon, yes we do.



Palestinians the largest per capita recipients of international development assistance in the world


Since the establishment of limited Palestinian self-rule in the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the
mid-1990s, the U.S. government has committed over $4 billion in bilateral assistance to the
Palestinians, who are among the world's largest per capita recipients of international foreign aid.
2013-05-03 06:28:50 PM  
1 votes:
How about:

Palestine gives Israel all its land.
Israel gives all Palestinians full citizenship and equality.

One state, one people.

/ ducks
2013-05-03 06:24:50 PM  
1 votes:
Whenever I read about the Palestine-Israeli disagreement, all I see is

It is..is not...is...is not..is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not..


One big endless circle of hate that's f*cking never going to end because both sides are assholes.
2013-05-03 06:20:47 PM  
1 votes:

BarkingUnicorn: I'm willing to accept the United Nations as the canonical authority on what is a nation.


Then Israel in one, and Palestine doesn't quite qualify.
2013-05-03 06:17:52 PM  
1 votes:

mayIFark: hasty ambush: mayIFark: Does that mean the paid shrills of IIDF will now tell us to Bing their propaganda instead of Googling it?

As opposed to the paid shills of Hamas and Hezbollah?

I don't know. Do American taxpayers foot their bills too?



Since the US sends aid to both Gaza and Lebanon, yes we do.
2013-05-03 06:14:05 PM  
1 votes:

Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.

Name one head of state of the country of 'palestine' throughout history, then.

Name one true scotsman.


William Wallace
2013-05-03 06:13:51 PM  
1 votes:

Tatsuma: mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.

Name one head of state of the country of 'palestine' throughout history, then.


www.standupamericaus.org
It's what you types do best.
2013-05-03 06:10:12 PM  
1 votes:

Tatsuma: Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?


Except when it isn't.
2013-05-03 06:02:51 PM  
1 votes:
 Lotta but hurt here. It's almost like as if some folks are viserally opposed to any palesinian  what soever.
how very anti semitic of them.

Hypnozombie
2013-05-03 06:01:53 PM  
1 votes:

mayIFark: Does that mean the paid shrills of IIDF will now tell us to Bing their propaganda instead of Googling it?


As opposed to the paid shills of Hamas and Hezbollah?
2013-05-03 06:01:40 PM  
1 votes:

Wolf_Blitzer: rikkidoxx: Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example.

I thought we were an autonomous collective.



You're fooling yourself.
2013-05-03 05:58:29 PM  
1 votes:

rikkidoxx: There are no such people as Palestinians nor is there a country named Palestine. Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example. Those people euphemistically called Palestinians are actually from Jordan and that area.


Name one King of the United States.
2013-05-03 05:56:44 PM  
1 votes:

Tatsuma: tallguywithglasseson: Obviously, not you.

I don't get why that's supposed to be a big deal, no.


The important thing here is that you got in right at the start to tell us how unimportant this was and how much you didn't care.
2013-05-03 05:56:36 PM  
1 votes:

JosephFinn: Good. Now maybe Israel will stop practicing piracy on shops headed toward Palestinian territorial waters.


All the sea shops belong to us
2013-05-03 05:50:00 PM  
1 votes:
Even if it is Google recognizing what is right. The more the merrier.
2013-05-03 05:37:53 PM  
1 votes:
Yeah, it is kind of stupid to make an issue out of this.Can we maybe turn it into a "Google Image search for IDG girls" thread?

ts4.mm.bing.net
 
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