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(Al Jazeera)   Google recognizes the State of Palestine. Did you mean: Gaza and the West Bank   (aljazeera.com) divider line 174
    More: Interesting, State of Palestine, Palestine, West Bank, Gaza, Google, Foreign Affairs Minister of Israel, International Politics, Palestinian territories  
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4180 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 May 2013 at 5:48 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



174 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-05-03 05:09:40 PM
Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?
 
2013-05-03 05:13:23 PM

Tatsuma: Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?


Obviously, not you.
 
2013-05-03 05:15:40 PM

tallguywithglasseson: Obviously, not you.


I don't get why that's supposed to be a big deal, no.
 
2013-05-03 05:31:58 PM

Tatsuma: I don't get why that's supposed to be a big deal, no.


Google is a censorship tool of totalitarian regimes, no big whoop.
 
2013-05-03 05:37:53 PM
Yeah, it is kind of stupid to make an issue out of this.Can we maybe turn it into a "Google Image search for IDG girls" thread?

ts4.mm.bing.net
 
2013-05-03 05:39:55 PM
IDF I meant.

and for the ladies

ts3.mm.bing.net

He seems to be praying, I hope it is not in bad taste to post a picture of a hot guy praying.
 
2013-05-03 05:50:00 PM
Even if it is Google recognizing what is right. The more the merrier.
 
2013-05-03 05:52:38 PM
Did anyone else read that as "placing the name "Palestine" on its search engine instead of "Palestinian Terrorists"."
 
2013-05-03 05:53:06 PM
tammybruce.com
 
2013-05-03 05:53:22 PM
That extra word was transmitting .0000001 kilowatts of energy, this was a cost cutting measure
 
2013-05-03 05:53:49 PM
How the hell did a guy get into this picture? Lucky Bastard!

chivethebrigade.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-05-03 05:55:37 PM
Good.  Now maybe Israel will stop practicing piracy on shops headed toward Palestinian territorial waters.
 
2013-05-03 05:56:17 PM

Tatsuma: Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?


You cared enough to comment.
 
2013-05-03 05:56:19 PM
There are no such people as Palestinians nor is there a country named Palestine. Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example. Those people euphemistically called Palestinians are actually from Jordan and that area.
 
2013-05-03 05:56:36 PM

JosephFinn: Good. Now maybe Israel will stop practicing piracy on shops headed toward Palestinian territorial waters.


All the sea shops belong to us
 
2013-05-03 05:56:44 PM

Tatsuma: tallguywithglasseson: Obviously, not you.

I don't get why that's supposed to be a big deal, no.


The important thing here is that you got in right at the start to tell us how unimportant this was and how much you didn't care.
 
2013-05-03 05:57:12 PM

enry: You cared enough to comment.


I also commented on a Lindsay Lohan topic earlier.
 
2013-05-03 05:58:16 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: The important thing here is that you got in right at the start to tell us how unimportant this was and how much you didn't care.


I'm sorry, I forgot we were posting on NewsWeReallyCare.com

That was gauche of me.
 
2013-05-03 05:58:29 PM

rikkidoxx: There are no such people as Palestinians nor is there a country named Palestine. Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example. Those people euphemistically called Palestinians are actually from Jordan and that area.


Name one King of the United States.
 
2013-05-03 05:58:57 PM
Does that mean the paid shrills of IIDF will now tell us to Bing their propaganda instead of Googling it?
 
2013-05-03 06:00:16 PM
5/18 comments so far...
 
2013-05-03 06:00:17 PM
rikkidoxx: Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example.

I thought we were an autonomous collective.
 
2013-05-03 06:00:51 PM

JosephFinn: Good.  Now maybe Israel will stop practicing piracy on 'shoops headed toward Palestinian territorial waters.


FTFY
 
2013-05-03 06:01:23 PM

mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.


Name one head of state of the country of 'palestine' throughout history, then.
 
2013-05-03 06:01:40 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: rikkidoxx: Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example.

I thought we were an autonomous collective.



You're fooling yourself.
 
2013-05-03 06:01:41 PM

Karmic: Did anyone else read that as "placing the name "Palestine" on its search engine instead of "Palestinian Terrorists"."


If only.
 
2013-05-03 06:01:53 PM

mayIFark: Does that mean the paid shrills of IIDF will now tell us to Bing their propaganda instead of Googling it?


As opposed to the paid shills of Hamas and Hezbollah?
 
2013-05-03 06:02:07 PM
Jewish women are farking awesome
 
2013-05-03 06:02:46 PM

rikkidoxx: There are no such people as Palestinians nor is there a country named Palestine. Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example. Those people euphemistically called Palestinians are actually from Jordan and that area.


Interesting point - Question, does the land you are born in belong to you? or is that right given to you by another? is so who?
 
2013-05-03 06:02:51 PM
 Lotta but hurt here. It's almost like as if some folks are viserally opposed to any palesinian  what soever.
how very anti semitic of them.

Hypnozombie
 
2013-05-03 06:03:38 PM

Kanemano: rikkidoxx: There are no such people as Palestinians nor is there a country named Palestine. Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example. Those people euphemistically called Palestinians are actually from Jordan and that area.

Interesting point - Question, does the land you are born in belong to you? or is that right given to you by another? is so who?


I'm renting.
 
2013-05-03 06:04:18 PM
The Palestinian people have a right to their own self determination.

Israel is a despotic, aparthied "country".
 
2013-05-03 06:04:22 PM

Tatsuma: mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.

Name one head of state of the country of 'palestine' throughout history, then.


Name one true scotsman.
 
2013-05-03 06:05:12 PM

Tatsuma: Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?


When Did Tatsuma get back??

Maybe i haven't paid close enough attention lately, but welcome back Tats, Fark wasn't the same without you. I DGAF if i disagree with you. Do your thing.
 
2013-05-03 06:05:29 PM

mrlewish: rikkidoxx: There are no such people as Palestinians nor is there a country named Palestine. Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example. Those people euphemistically called Palestinians are actually from Jordan and that area.

Name one King of the United States.


You're making this too easy.
 
2013-05-03 06:05:33 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.

Name one head of state of the country of 'palestine' throughout history, then.

Name one true scotsman.



Robert Burns
 
2013-05-03 06:06:07 PM

give me doughnuts: Wolf_Blitzer: rikkidoxx: Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example.

I thought we were an autonomous collective.


You're fooling yourself.


Thats okay though, I'm executive officer of the week.
 
2013-05-03 06:06:09 PM

HypnozombieX: how very anti semitic of them.


Anti-semitism is not the antonym of 'semitism'  (What is semitism to begin with?).

Antisemitism is a very specific term that describes anti-Jewish hatred, and has always meant since so its inception.
 
2013-05-03 06:06:59 PM
How do you recognize on island? You go, "exc... Hey, wait. No, don't tell me. Wait, wait, didn't we meet last year at the Feinman bar mitzvah? You look a lot like Hawaii. Didn't we meet last year at the Peninsula Club? No."

a7maarte.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-05-03 06:07:05 PM

Slesfo: When Did Tatsuma get back??

Maybe i haven't paid close enough attention lately, but welcome back Tats, Fark wasn't the same without you. I DGAF if i disagree with you. Do your thing.


Cheers!

About two weeks ago or so, I've been visiting family and I had time to spare. Going back home in a couple of weeks, but I should keep on farking from there as well, since I'm not going to be living in dorms but I'll have my own place now.
 
2013-05-03 06:07:38 PM

jehovahs witness protection: mrlewish: rikkidoxx: There are no such people as Palestinians nor is there a country named Palestine. Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example. Those people euphemistically called Palestinians are actually from Jordan and that area.

Name one King of the United States.

You're making this too easy.


Difficulty: you don't vote for king.

/how do you become king then
 
2013-05-03 06:08:37 PM

mrlewish: rikkidoxx: There are no such people as Palestinians nor is there a country named Palestine. Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example. Those people euphemistically called Palestinians are actually from Jordan and that area.

Name one King of the United States.


Does this count? Because I hear it a lot.
3.bp.blogspot.com
/ducks
 
2013-05-03 06:08:58 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: jehovahs witness protection: mrlewish: rikkidoxx: There are no such people as Palestinians nor is there a country named Palestine. Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example. Those people euphemistically called Palestinians are actually from Jordan and that area.

Name one King of the United States.

You're making this too easy.

Difficulty: you don't vote for king.

/how do you become king then



Moisened bints heaving scimitars, apparently.
 
2013-05-03 06:10:10 PM

Tatsuma: Slesfo: When Did Tatsuma get back??

Maybe i haven't paid close enough attention lately, but welcome back Tats, Fark wasn't the same without you. I DGAF if i disagree with you. Do your thing.

Cheers!

About two weeks ago or so, I've been visiting family and I had time to spare. Going back home in a couple of weeks, but I should keep on farking from there as well, since I'm not going to be living in dorms but I'll have my own place now.


Can I ask why you were gone? I heard one side of the story from a few Anti-Tatsuma folks, about you losing an embarrassing argument and then not coming back, but i would rather hear both sides, and decide from that.
 
2013-05-03 06:10:10 PM

Tatsuma: Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?


That was quick
 
2013-05-03 06:10:12 PM

Tatsuma: Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?


Except when it isn't.
 
2013-05-03 06:12:40 PM

hasty ambush: mayIFark: Does that mean the paid shrills of IIDF will now tell us to Bing their propaganda instead of Googling it?

As opposed to the paid shills of Hamas and Hezbollah?


I don't know. Do American taxpayers foot their bills too?
 
2013-05-03 06:13:51 PM

Tatsuma: mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.

Name one head of state of the country of 'palestine' throughout history, then.


www.standupamericaus.org
It's what you types do best.
 
2013-05-03 06:14:05 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.

Name one head of state of the country of 'palestine' throughout history, then.

Name one true scotsman.


William Wallace
 
2013-05-03 06:15:05 PM

goatleggedfellow: Tatsuma: Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?

Except when it isn't.


They comply to their censorship demands or face expulsion. An argument could be made that they should accept expulsion, on ethical grounds, and an argument could be made that by complying they're still able to maintain a positive influence there.

The argument could go both ways really, and I'm not going to jump on one side of support or hate either way. I LOVE some of Google's products, and am very annoyed by others. Guess the world isn't a simple black and white place. Kinda wish it was.
 
2013-05-03 06:15:36 PM

DocTravesty: JosephFinn: Good.  Now maybe Israel will stop practicing piracy on 'shoops headed toward Palestinian territorial waters.

FTFY


Since most of the shoop-da-woops in the region came from Iran, I think a bit of a blockade on them might be justified...
 
2013-05-03 06:15:40 PM
Gerald Ford was originally named Leslie king.
 
2013-05-03 06:16:27 PM

Jake Havechek: The Palestinian people have a right to their own self determination.


Yup, they've voted for the path of war.  War has consequences.  The path to peace is easy--quit shooting.

They can't do that, though--their whole economy is based around the aid they get for attacking Israel and for being a "victim".  Remove that and they would be far worse off than they are now.
 
2013-05-03 06:17:52 PM

mayIFark: hasty ambush: mayIFark: Does that mean the paid shrills of IIDF will now tell us to Bing their propaganda instead of Googling it?

As opposed to the paid shills of Hamas and Hezbollah?

I don't know. Do American taxpayers foot their bills too?



Since the US sends aid to both Gaza and Lebanon, yes we do.
 
2013-05-03 06:18:28 PM

DORMAMU: Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.

Name one head of state of the country of 'palestine' throughout history, then.

Name one true scotsman.

William Wallace


I have it on good authority that he's Australian.

/actually he's from New York
 
2013-05-03 06:18:35 PM
I'm willing to accept the United Nations as the canonical authority on what is a nation.
 
2013-05-03 06:19:25 PM

Slesfo: Can I ask why you were gone? I heard one side of the story from a few Anti-Tatsuma folks, about you losing an embarrassing argument and then not coming back, but i would rather hear both sides, and decide from that.


Hahaha really? What a load of nonsense.

I posted intermittently in the last two years because I was just too busy and in a place without really any internet. I was getting up at the crack of dawn (literally) and studying/praying about 12-13 hours a day, I didn't have the energy to Fark around. Lots of people like to make shiat up about me, so I'm not surprised they'd say something like that.

I think the last time I posted before I came back was during the last spate of missiles falling in 2012, around what November?

mrlewish: Name one head of state of the country of 'palestine' throughout history, then.


I'm not the one who set these goalposts. Answer the question though.
 
2013-05-03 06:20:17 PM

Tatsuma: So, who cares?


clearly you do, since you are so colon crucified over it
 
2013-05-03 06:20:32 PM
If the people calling themselves Palestinians want their own country, they should talk to Egypt, Jordan, Syria, et al.

It was the wars started by those countries that lost their country, not Israel.
 
2013-05-03 06:20:45 PM

Slesfo: goatleggedfellow: Tatsuma: Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?

Except when it isn't.

They comply to their censorship demands or face expulsion. An argument could be made that they should accept expulsion, on ethical grounds, and an argument could be made that by complying they're still able to maintain a positive influence there.

The argument could go both ways really, and I'm not going to jump on one side of support or hate either way. I LOVE some of Google's products, and am very annoyed by others. Guess the world isn't a simple black and white place. Kinda wish it was.


True.
 
2013-05-03 06:20:47 PM

BarkingUnicorn: I'm willing to accept the United Nations as the canonical authority on what is a nation.


Then Israel in one, and Palestine doesn't quite qualify.
 
2013-05-03 06:21:57 PM
They're just following the UN. Who cares.
 
2013-05-03 06:22:28 PM

Slesfo: They comply to their censorship demands or face expulsion. An argument could be made that they should accept expulsion, on ethical grounds, and an argument could be made that by complying they're still able to maintain a positive influence there.

The argument could go both ways really, and I'm not going to jump on one side of support or hate either way. I LOVE some of Google's products, and am very annoyed by others. Guess the world isn't a simple black and white place. Kinda wish it was.


What positive influence, though? The reason google stays is not because they can help those people, but rather the millions if not billions they make thanks to also being present in their country, on the ground of 'Well, if not us, someone else'.

And I say that as someone who really likes and use Google products on a daily basis.
 
2013-05-03 06:23:10 PM

rikkidoxx: There are no such people as Palestinians nor is there a country named Palestine. Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example. Those people euphemistically called Palestinians are actually from Jordan and that area.


Who was king (or president, prime minister, whatever) of Israel in 1931?
 
2013-05-03 06:24:02 PM

give me doughnuts: mayIFark: hasty ambush: mayIFark: Does that mean the paid shrills of IIDF will now tell us to Bing their propaganda instead of Googling it?

As opposed to the paid shills of Hamas and Hezbollah?

I don't know. Do American taxpayers foot their bills too?


Since the US sends aid to both Gaza and Lebanon, yes we do.


We do to Hamas and Hizbullah?
 
2013-05-03 06:24:50 PM
Whenever I read about the Palestine-Israeli disagreement, all I see is

It is..is not...is...is not..is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not.. is..is not...is...is not..


One big endless circle of hate that's f*cking never going to end because both sides are assholes.
 
2013-05-03 06:24:55 PM

mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.


I can name an Emperor.
 
2013-05-03 06:26:18 PM

ArcadianRefugee: Who was king (or president, prime minister, whatever) of Israel in 1931?


We didn't have a prime minister in 1931. However, we had a country here and lived on that land for 2,000 years before Mohammed came to this earth and his troops invaded our country and colonized. We never left either, though a sizable portion of our population was exiled.

Your line of argument is quite ironic considering your call yourself 'Arcadian Refugee'
 
2013-05-03 06:26:50 PM

This text is now purple: mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.

I can name an Emperor.


Yes, but did someone lob a scimitar at them?
 
2013-05-03 06:27:17 PM

Tatsuma: Slesfo: They comply to their censorship demands or face expulsion. An argument could be made that they should accept expulsion, on ethical grounds, and an argument could be made that by complying they're still able to maintain a positive influence there.

The argument could go both ways really, and I'm not going to jump on one side of support or hate either way. I LOVE some of Google's products, and am very annoyed by others. Guess the world isn't a simple black and white place. Kinda wish it was.

What positive influence, though? The reason google stays is not because they can help those people, but rather the millions if not billions they make thanks to also being present in their country, on the ground of 'Well, if not us, someone else'.

And I say that as someone who really likes and use Google products on a daily basis.


Even though i don't have much of a stake in this defense, i'll push back a bit.

As a search engine company, their very existence presents a threat to the regimes. The state run alternative options are the only other options for the people there. It takes time for their censorship orders to go into effect, and so on.

I myself am still undecided, and i think i'll remain that way for a while. Which sucks, because having clear cut opinions on something is a lot more comfortable than being unsure.
 
2013-05-03 06:27:38 PM

BarkingUnicorn: I'm willing to accept the United Nations as the canonical authority on what is a nation.


So if you want to travel to Taiwan, you'll go about getting your visa from the Chinese consulate?

Good luck.
 
2013-05-03 06:28:19 PM

Tatsuma: ArcadianRefugee: Who was king (or president, prime minister, whatever) of Israel in 1931?

We didn't have a prime minister in 1931. However, we had a country here and lived on that land for 2,000 years before Mohammed came to this earth and his troops invaded our country and colonized. We never left either, though a sizable portion of our population was exiled.

Your line of argument is quite ironic considering your call yourself 'Arcadian Refugee'


You're 2,000 years old?
 
2013-05-03 06:28:25 PM
goatleggedfellow:

True.

What? No, this is Fark, you have to fight back!
 
2013-05-03 06:28:50 PM
How about:

Palestine gives Israel all its land.
Israel gives all Palestinians full citizenship and equality.

One state, one people.

/ ducks
 
2013-05-03 06:28:51 PM
"This change raises questions about the reasons behind this surprising involvement of what is basically a private internet company in international politics, and on the controversial side," Yigal Palmor, Israeli foreign ministry spokesman, told AFP news agency.

See, here's the thing: Google was in a bind in that anything would have appeared political. Doing nothing at all would also have the appearance of not recognizing the UN's policy change, effectively promoting a pro-Israel, anti-Palestinian position. It doesn't seem outrageous that they should just stick with whatever is official. The UN is not some underground organization that has suddenly become legitimized because Google changed their references in accordance with one of their policies.
 
2013-05-03 06:29:29 PM

Tatsuma: mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.

Name one head of state of the country of 'palestine' throughout history, then.


So they're not a country, just a group of people being driven off their common homeland. People defined by a common history and shared struggle that outsiders can't properly appreciate.

fark 'em. They can find somewhere else in the world to live.
 
2013-05-03 06:30:01 PM

Slesfo: Even though i don't have much of a stake in this defense, i'll push back a bit.

As a search engine company, their very existence presents a threat to the regimes. The state run alternative options are the only other options for the people there. It takes time for their censorship orders to go into effect, and so on.

I myself am still undecided, and i think i'll remain that way for a while. Which sucks, because having clear cut opinions on something is a lot more comfortable than being unsure.


Oh for course. For me it's a bit more simple, and I tend to side with google because, at the end of the day, they are only a company and it's not their duty to actively help those in totalitarian countries. By being a search engine plagued by censorship in a dictatorship, they are just doing what others would be doing if they weren't there and they are not directly oppressing the government. Not being able to look up certain things on google doesn't equate, say, child or forced labor.
 
2013-05-03 06:30:20 PM

give me doughnuts: mayIFark: hasty ambush: mayIFark: Does that mean the paid shrills of IIDF will now tell us to Bing their propaganda instead of Googling it?

As opposed to the paid shills of Hamas and Hezbollah?

I don't know. Do American taxpayers foot their bills too?


Since the US sends aid to both Gaza and Lebanon, yes we do.



Palestinians the largest per capita recipients of international development assistance in the world


Since the establishment of limited Palestinian self-rule in the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the
mid-1990s, the U.S. government has committed over $4 billion in bilateral assistance to the
Palestinians, who are among the world's largest per capita recipients of international foreign aid.
 
2013-05-03 06:31:47 PM

mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-05-03 06:31:56 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: This text is now purple: mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.

I can name an Emperor.

Yes, but did someone lob a scimitar at them?


He owned a saber, so possibly.
 
2013-05-03 06:31:57 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: This text is now purple: mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.

I can name an Emperor.

Yes, but did someone lob a scimitar at them?


Didn't need to, he carried his own damn sword!
 
2013-05-03 06:34:20 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: ArcadianRefugee: Who was king (or president, prime minister, whatever) of Israel in 1931?

We didn't have a prime minister in 1931. However, we had a country here and lived on that land for 2,000 years before Mohammed came to this earth and his troops invaded our country and colonized. We never left either, though a sizable portion of our population was exiled.

Your line of argument is quite ironic considering your call yourself 'Arcadian Refugee'

You're 2,000 years old?


I don't know why he's making this argument. The Muslims had the land longer consecutively (under the Ottoman Empire), than the Jews did collectively, and the Jews haven't had it since the Greeks took it from them... more than 2000 years ago. This is kinda like arguing that I have the right to my late grandfather's stolen car even though it's been bought, sold, and modified a dozen times since, and the current owner has had it longer than he ever did.
 
2013-05-03 06:34:42 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: You're 2,000 years old?


No. I am 3,335 years old.

It was fate that delivered me and my contemporaries into this great era, when the Jews returned to and re-established their homeland. I am no longer a wandering Jew who migrates from country to country, from exile to exile. But all Jews in every generation must regard themselves as if they had been there, in previous generations, places, and events. Therefore, I am still a wandering Jew, but not along the far-flung paths of the world. Now I migrate through the expanses of time, from generation to generation, down the paths of memory.

Memory shortens distances.

Two hundred generations have passed since my people first came into being, and to me they seem like a few days.
Only two hundred generations have passed since a man named Abraham rose up and left his country and birthplace for the country that is today mine.
Only two hundred generations have elapsed from the day Abraham purchased the Cave of Makhpela in the city of Hebron to the murderous conflicts that have taken place there in my generation.
Only one hundred fifty generations have passed from the Pillar of Fire of the Exodus from Egypt to the pillars of smoke from the Holocaust.
And I, a descendant of Abraham, born in Abraham's country, have witnessed them all.

I was a slave in Egypt.
I received the Torah at Mount Sinai.
Together with Joshua and Elijah, I crossed the Jordan River.
I entered Jerusalem with David, was exiled from it with Zedekiah, and did not forget it by the rivers of Babylon.
When the Lord returned the captives of Zion, I dreamed among the builders of its ramparts.
I fought the Romans and was banished from Spain.
I was bound to the stake in Mainz.
I studied Torah in Yemen and lost my family in Kishinev.
I was incinerated in Treblinka, rebelled in Warsaw, and emigrated to the Land of Israel, the country when I had been exiled and where I had been born, from which I come and to which I return.

I am a wandering Jew who follows in the footsteps of his forebears, and just as I escorted them there and then, so do my forebears accompany me and stand here with me today.
 
2013-05-03 06:35:03 PM

mrlewish: rikkidoxx: There are no such people as Palestinians nor is there a country named Palestine. Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example. Those people euphemistically called Palestinians are actually from Jordan and that area.

Name one King of the United States.


That's too easy.

www.zpub.com
 
2013-05-03 06:35:37 PM

Slesfo: goatleggedfellow:

True.

What? No, this is Fark, you have to fight back!


Crap. I'm getting lazy on Friday. Let me go back and find some little bit of minutiae I disagree slightly with you on. I'll be back in 10 with a 6-paragraph rant with a link to some shiatty blog on geocities.
 
2013-05-03 06:38:30 PM

Slesfo: I don't know why he's making this argument. The Muslims had the land longer consecutively (under the Ottoman Empire), than the Jews did collectively, and the Jews haven't had it since the Greeks took it from them... more than 2000 years ago. This is kinda like arguing that I have the right to my late grandfather's stolen car even though it's been bought, sold, and modified a dozen times since, and the current owner has had it longer than he ever did.


We lived under various occupiers in our land for the last 1877 years since the destruction of our Beit HaMikdash. Whether it was the Greeks, or the Romans, or the various Muslim empires fighting each others, we were still living on our land in and the year 5708, or 1948, we finally had our own state again, on the land we've lived, live and will continue to live on. Israel was, is, and will always be ours.

www.haaretz.com
 
2013-05-03 06:38:36 PM

Tatsuma: Wolf_Blitzer: You're 2,000 years old?

No. I am 3,335 years old.

It was fate that delivered me and my contemporaries into this great era, when the Jews returned to and re-established their homeland. I am no longer a wandering Jew who migrates from country to country, from exile to exile. But all Jews in every generation must regard themselves as if they had been there, in previous generations, places, and events. Therefore, I am still a wandering Jew, but not along the far-flung paths of the world. Now I migrate through the expanses of time, from generation to generation, down the paths of memory.

Memory shortens distances.

Two hundred generations have passed since my people first came into being, and to me they seem like a few days.
Only two hundred generations have passed since a man named Abraham rose up and left his country and birthplace for the country that is today mine.
Only two hundred generations have elapsed from the day Abraham purchased the Cave of Makhpela in the city of Hebron to the murderous conflicts that have taken place there in my generation.
Only one hundred fifty generations have passed from the Pillar of Fire of the Exodus from Egypt to the pillars of smoke from the Holocaust.
And I, a descendant of Abraham, born in Abraham's country, have witnessed them all.

I was a slave in Egypt.
I received the Torah at Mount Sinai.
Together with Joshua and Elijah, I crossed the Jordan River.
I entered Jerusalem with David, was exiled from it with Zedekiah, and did not forget it by the rivers of Babylon.
When the Lord returned the captives of Zion, I dreamed among the builders of its ramparts.
I fought the Romans and was banished from Spain.
I was bound to the stake in Mainz.
I studied Torah in Yemen and lost my family in Kishinev.
I was incinerated in Treblinka, rebelled in Warsaw, and emigrated to the Land of Israel, the country when I had been exiled and where I had been born, from which I come and to which I return.

I am a wandering Jew who follow ...


The opening scroll text of the Assassin's Creed movie.
 
2013-05-03 06:38:49 PM

give me doughnuts: BarkingUnicorn: I'm willing to accept the United Nations as the canonical authority on what is a nation.

Then Israel in one, and Palestine doesn't quite qualify.


O, bother all pedantic semanticists.

Along with the Holy See, Palestine is a "non-member observer state."  The UN calls it Palestine. A state is sovereign over its territory. A nation is a community that is independent of geographic boundaries.
 
2013-05-03 06:39:31 PM
/imagines Jews wandering about with four bears.
 
2013-05-03 06:39:37 PM

Tatsuma: Wolf_Blitzer: You're 2,000 years old?

No. I am 3,335 years old.

It was fate that delivered me and my contemporaries into this great era, when the Jews returned to and re-established their homeland. I am no longer a wandering Jew who migrates from country to country, from exile to exile. But all Jews in every generation must regard themselves as if they had been there, in previous generations, places, and events. Therefore, I am still a wandering Jew, but not along the far-flung paths of the world. Now I migrate through the expanses of time, from generation to generation, down the paths of memory.

Memory shortens distances.

Two hundred generations have passed since my people first came into being, and to me they seem like a few days.
Only two hundred generations have passed since a man named Abraham rose up and left his country and birthplace for the country that is today mine.
Only two hundred generations have elapsed from the day Abraham purchased the Cave of Makhpela in the city of Hebron to the murderous conflicts that have taken place there in my generation.
Only one hundred fifty generations have passed from the Pillar of Fire of the Exodus from Egypt to the pillars of smoke from the Holocaust.
And I, a descendant of Abraham, born in Abraham's country, have witnessed them all.

I was a slave in Egypt.
I received the Torah at Mount Sinai.
Together with Joshua and Elijah, I crossed the Jordan River.
I entered Jerusalem with David, was exiled from it with Zedekiah, and did not forget it by the rivers of Babylon.
When the Lord returned the captives of Zion, I dreamed among the builders of its ramparts.
I fought the Romans and was banished from Spain.
I was bound to the stake in Mainz.
I studied Torah in Yemen and lost my family in Kishinev.
I was incinerated in Treblinka, rebelled in Warsaw, and emigrated to the Land of Israel, the country when I had been exiled and where I had been born, from which I come and to which I return.

I am a wandering Jew who follow ...


C'mon, bro, cite. Everybody, that's former President of Israel, Ezer Weizmann
 
2013-05-03 06:40:01 PM

Tatsuma: ArcadianRefugee: Who was king (or president, prime minister, whatever) of Israel in 1931?

We didn't have a prime minister in 1931. However, we had a country here and lived on that land for 2,000 years before Mohammed came to this earth and his troops invaded our country and colonized. We never left either, though a sizable portion of our population was exiled.

Your line of argument is quite ironic considering your call yourself 'Arcadian Refugee'


A question is not an argument, but I'll go that way.

paraphrase: we had a country lived there 2,000 years ago

So the answer is "there was no country named Israel". When Israel was formed in 1948, it was created so that the Jewish peoples had a place to call home, not because "[they] had a country here and lived on that land 2,000 years ago" (or 500, or even 100). So Jews deserve a place to call their own, but not those who call themselves Palestinians?

ironic considering your call yourself 'Arcadian Refugee'

If you say so, but I am not sure what my old Ars Magica character has to do with this.

rikkidoxx: There are no such people as Palestinians nor is there a country named Palestine. Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example.


'There are no such people as North Americans nor is there a country named North America. Name one, just one North American king as an example.'

(Yes, I am making fun of your first statement.)

If, in 1941, the Jewish people had started calling themselves "Israelis" in deference antiquity and in the hopes they would once again have a home of their own, would you have scoffed at and dismissed them, too?
 
2013-05-03 06:40:02 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.

Name one head of state of the country of 'palestine' throughout history, then.

Name one true scotsman.


chuckjonescenter.org
Angus McRory!
 
2013-05-03 06:40:24 PM

Tatsuma: mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.

Name one head of state of the country of 'palestine' throughout history, then.


Kyle. He's pretty obscure. I am pretty sure you wouldn't have heard of him.
 
2013-05-03 06:40:33 PM

Tatsuma: Israel was, is, and will always be ours.


I don't think so.
 
2013-05-03 06:40:47 PM

Slesfo: C'mon, bro, cite. Everybody, that's former President of Israel, Ezer Weizmann


.... I wasn't pretending that was mine. I had that in my profile for like two years.  Yesterday I quoted the beatles without citing, was I pretending to be John Lennon?
 
2013-05-03 06:42:00 PM
Judea ceased to exist when it was sacked by Rome in 70AD.

"Israel" is a fake country invented by the U.N.
 
2013-05-03 06:43:08 PM

Tatsuma: Slesfo: I don't know why he's making this argument. The Muslims had the land longer consecutively (under the Ottoman Empire), than the Jews did collectively, and the Jews haven't had it since the Greeks took it from them... more than 2000 years ago. This is kinda like arguing that I have the right to my late grandfather's stolen car even though it's been bought, sold, and modified a dozen times since, and the current owner has had it longer than he ever did.

We lived under various occupiers in our land for the last 1877 years since the destruction of our Beit HaMikdash. Whether it was the Greeks, or the Romans, or the various Muslim empires fighting each others, we were still living on our land in and the year 5708, or 1948, we finally had our own state again, on the land we've lived, live and will continue to live on. Israel was, is, and will always be ours.

[www.haaretz.com image 640x370]


I see what you're saying, but we're talking about who has control of a nation, not where a group of people happened to live. Just because i live in an apartment for 20 years doesn't mean i suddenly get the right to own it again, even if i owned it years ago.
 
2013-05-03 06:43:39 PM

ArcadianRefugee: 'There are no such people as North Americans nor is there a country named North America. Name one, just one North American king as an example.'


George VI of Canada.

Depending on how you count it, possibly Willem-Alexander of Netherlands.
 
2013-05-03 06:43:46 PM

Tatsuma: Slesfo: C'mon, bro, cite. Everybody, that's former President of Israel, Ezer Weizmann

.... I wasn't pretending that was mine. I had that in my profile for like two years.  Yesterday I quoted the beatles without citing, was I pretending to be John Lennon?


I would say, Yes.
 
2013-05-03 06:44:59 PM

ArcadianRefugee: So the answer is "there was no country named Israel". When Israel was formed in 1948, it was created so that the Jewish peoples had a place to call home, not because "[they] had a country here and lived on that land 2,000 years ago" (or 500, or even 100). So Jews deserve a place to call their own, but not those who call themselves Palestinians?


We had a Kingdom called the Kingdom of Israel for more than 800 years. Not only did we have a country, but I can literally go ahead and name all of the Kings who ruled over it, the currency, the wars we fought, those we won, those we lost, and so on.

The modern state of Israel is only a continuation of this, not a brand new invention. It's just that the Grace of G-d let us rebuild for ourselves our country and, G-d willing, the Third Temple and welcoming Mashiach soon as well

ArcadianRefugee: If, in 1941, the Jewish people had started calling themselves "Israelis" in deference antiquity and in the hopes they would once again have a home of their own, would you have scoffed at and dismissed them, too?


There were a lot of Palestinian clubs in 1941. You had Palestine Airways, the Palestine Post, you had movies about Proud Palestinians trying to win their land back, you had Palestinian groups on all major American campuses in 1941.

Then Palestine Airways because El Al, the Palestine Post became the Jerusalem Post, and that Proud Palestinian fighter was Ari Ben-Canaan in the movie Exodus, and the Palestinian clubs and groups became Zionist and Israeli groups and clubs.

Until the 1960s, if you had called an Arab 'Palestinian', he would have spit at you for daring calling him a Jew.
 
2013-05-03 06:46:19 PM

Slesfo: I see what you're saying, but we're talking about who has control of a nation, not where a group of people happened to live. Just because i live in an apartment for 20 years doesn't mean i suddenly get the right to own it again, even if i owned it years ago.


Your analogy fails on many levels.

Slesfo: I would say, Yes.


What if I was John Lennon, uh? Ever thought about that, big boy?
 
2013-05-03 06:49:49 PM

Tatsuma: I was a slave in Egypt.


No, you weren't, despite what all of the ancient Abrahamic Books of Fantasy tell you.
 
2013-05-03 06:51:51 PM

rikkidoxx: There are no such people as Palestinians nor is there a country named Palestine. Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example. Those people euphemistically called Palestinians are actually from Jordan and that area.


Julius Ceasar?
 
2013-05-03 06:52:21 PM

Tatsuma: Wolf_Blitzer: You're 2,000 years old?

No. I am 3,335 years old.

It was fate that delivered me and my contemporaries into this great era, when the Jews returned to and re-established their homeland. I am no longer a wandering Jew who migrates from country to country, from exile to exile. But all Jews in every generation must regard themselves as if they had been there, in previous generations, places, and events. Therefore, I am still a wandering Jew, but not along the far-flung paths of the world. Now I migrate through the expanses of time, from generation to generation, down the paths of memory.

Memory shortens distances.

Two hundred generations have passed since my people first came into being, and to me they seem like a few days.
Only two hundred generations have passed since a man named Abraham rose up and left his country and birthplace for the country that is today mine.
Only two hundred generations have elapsed from the day Abraham purchased the Cave of Makhpela in the city of Hebron to the murderous conflicts that have taken place there in my generation.
Only one hundred fifty generations have passed from the Pillar of Fire of the Exodus from Egypt to the pillars of smoke from the Holocaust.
And I, a descendant of Abraham, born in Abraham's country, have witnessed them all.

I was a slave in Egypt.
I received the Torah at Mount Sinai.
Together with Joshua and Elijah, I crossed the Jordan River.
I entered Jerusalem with David, was exiled from it with Zedekiah, and did not forget it by the rivers of Babylon.
When the Lord returned the captives of Zion, I dreamed among the builders of its ramparts.
I fought the Romans and was banished from Spain.
I was bound to the stake in Mainz.
I studied Torah in Yemen and lost my family in Kishinev.
I was incinerated in Treblinka, rebelled in Warsaw, and emigrated to the Land of Israel, the country when I had been exiled and where I had been born, from which I come and to which I return.

I am a wandering Jew who follow ...


I killed Grendel.
I died during the sinking of Atlantis.
I've suffered millions of bouts of diarrhea.
I preferred when Zeus came to me as a bull.
I've been burnt by gonorrhea. Not just twice, but hundreds of times.
I blessed the rains down in Africa.
I slaughtered the Native Americans.
I moved the rock that sealed Jesus's tomb.
I decapitated the wives of Henry VIII.
I told short people they have no reason to live.
I knocked up the mitochondrial Eve.
I was Superman. And I could do anything.
I was the make-up artist for Helen of Troy. She was actually quite homely. My work launched all those ships.
I was Claudius.
I was beaten by Chris Brown.
 
2013-05-03 06:56:14 PM

Tatsuma: Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?


fark you tats.   You're the reason my friends in Israel are in danger you piece of shiat.
 
2013-05-03 06:56:21 PM

Tatsuma: Wolf_Blitzer: You're 2,000 years old?

No. I am 3,335 years old.

It was fate that delivered me and my contemporaries into this great era, when the Jews returned to and re-established their homeland. I am no longer a wandering Jew who migrates from country to country, from exile to exile. But all Jews in every generation must regard themselves as if they had been there, in previous generations, places, and events. Therefore, I am still a wandering Jew, but not along the far-flung paths of the world. Now I migrate through the expanses of time, from generation to generation, down the paths of memory.

Memory shortens distances.

Two hundred generations have passed since my people first came into being, and to me they seem like a few days.
Only two hundred generations have passed since a man named Abraham rose up and left his country and birthplace for the country that is today mine.
Only two hundred generations have elapsed from the day Abraham purchased the Cave of Makhpela in the city of Hebron to the murderous conflicts that have taken place there in my generation.
Only one hundred fifty generations have passed from the Pillar of Fire of the Exodus from Egypt to the pillars of smoke from the Holocaust.
And I, a descendant of Abraham, born in Abraham's country, have witnessed them all.

I was a slave in Egypt.
I received the Torah at Mount Sinai.
Together with Joshua and Elijah, I crossed the Jordan River.
I entered Jerusalem with David, was exiled from it with Zedekiah, and did not forget it by the rivers of Babylon.
When the Lord returned the captives of Zion, I dreamed among the builders of its ramparts.
I fought the Romans and was banished from Spain.
I was bound to the stake in Mainz.
I studied Torah in Yemen and lost my family in Kishinev.
I was incinerated in Treblinka, rebelled in Warsaw, and emigrated to the Land of Israel, the country when I had been exiled and where I had been born, from which I come and to which I return.

I am a wandering Jew who follows in the footsteps of his forebears, and just as I escorted them there and then, so do my forebears accompany me and stand here with me today.


So you're a Speaker For The Dead? Doesn't subjective time vs relative time get confusing?

/obscure?
//welcome back
 
2013-05-03 06:56:40 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: No, you weren't, despite what all of the ancient Abrahamic Books of Fantasy tell you.


I could start talking about archeological evidence, but I somehow don't feel like you're interested in a debate, or to change your mind.

Plus, Shabbat is fast approaching
 
2013-05-03 06:56:42 PM

Tatsuma: The modern state of Israel is only a continuation of this, not a brand new invention.


The modern state of Israel is a recreation of this. It's only a 'continuation' in the sense that, if you stop a movie, you can later continue playing. But that really large gap between part one and part two would seem to indicate that it was not your land for longer than it was. Congratulations on getting it back and all, but to say that it was always your is just emotional mush; no, it wasn't. Any more than, say, New York belongs to the Iroquois.

Tatsuma: There were a lot of Palestinian clubs ... for daring calling him a Jew.


Great, but that doesn't answer my question whatsoever. I am using 1941 Jews and comparing them to 2013 Palestinians, not the other way 'round.

So the Palestinians never had an official country named "Palestine", with its own flag and soccer team...but they lived on some of that land, and they identify with it for some reason.

Other than Jews having had an official country (at one point, long, long ago) how is their situation any different?
 
2013-05-03 07:02:15 PM

ArcadianRefugee: The modern state of Israel is a recreation of this. It's only a 'continuation' in the sense that, if you stop a movie, you can later continue playing. But that really large gap between part one and part two would seem to indicate that it was not your land for longer than it was. Congratulations on getting it back and all, but to say that it was always your is just emotional mush; no, it wasn't. Any more than, say, New York belongs to the Iroquois.


It's the same name, it's the same language, it's the same people, it's the same currency. Continuation, not recreation.

ArcadianRefugee: So the Palestinians never had an official country named "Palestine", with its own flag and soccer team...but they lived on some of that land, and they identify with it for some reason.


They never identified as such, according to their own leaders and their own intellectuals, until after the Six-Day War, and it only really took a hold after the Yom Kippur war.

There are huge differences today between Gazans and people in Judea and Samaria, because most of the people from Gaza descend from Egyptians, while those in Judea and Samaria tend to be mostly coming from Jordan and the northerners from Syria.

There's a reason why more than 80% of Jordanians identify as 'palestinian', it's not because they are refugees, it's because they are more or less from the same mass of people.
 
2013-05-03 07:03:07 PM
Anyway, gotta start getting ready, don't know if I'll have time to post some more before it's time.

So, Shabbat Shalom ya'll, have a nice weekend and all that.
 
2013-05-03 07:04:47 PM

Tatsuma: ecmoRandomNumbers: No, you weren't, despite what all of the ancient Abrahamic Books of Fantasy tell you.

I could start talking about archeological evidence, but I somehow don't feel like you're interested in a debate, or to change your mind.

Plus, Shabbat is fast approaching


*cough*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Egypt#Genesis_an d_ Exodus


Although the Book of Genesis and Book of Exodus describe a period of Hebrew servitude in ancient Egypt, more than a century of archaeological research has discovered nothing which could support its narrative elements- the four centuries sojourn in Egypt, the escape of well over a million Israelites from the Delta, or the three months journey through the wilderness to Sinai.[3]

The Egyptian records themselves have no mention of anything recorded in Exodus, the wilderness of the southern Sinai peninsula shows no traces of a mass-migration such as Exodus describes, and virtually all the place-names mentioned, including Goshen (the area within Egypt where the Israelites supposedly lived), the store-cities of Pithom and Rameses, the site of the crossing of the Red Sea (or, more commonly among modern Biblical scholars, the Sea of Reeds), and even Mt Sinai itself, have resisted identification.[4] Scholars who hold the Exodus to represent historical truth concede that the most the evidence can suggest is plausibility.[5]


That's from Wikipedia because it was the quickest to look up and post (I don't have articles about this bookmarked), but there are more than a few other references for the same idea.
 
2013-05-03 07:05:30 PM

Tatsuma: ecmoRandomNumbers: No, you weren't, despite what all of the ancient Abrahamic Books of Fantasy tell you.

I could start talking about archeological evidence, but I somehow don't feel like you're interested in a debate, or to change your mind.

Plus, Shabbat is fast approaching


The lack of evidence is what I find more compelling. But, please enlighten.
 
2013-05-03 07:07:16 PM
they had to do it or they'd die
 
2013-05-03 07:07:24 PM
Name one king or head of state of Kosovo (previous to 2008, autonomous province is not a nation).
 
2013-05-03 07:10:48 PM

goatleggedfellow: Tatsuma: mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.

Name one head of state of the country of 'palestine' throughout history, then.

So they're not a country, just a group of people being driven off their common homeland. People defined by a common history and shared struggle that outsiders can't properly appreciate.

fark 'em. They can find somewhere else in the world to live.


Maybe the palestinians can scatter around the world having been driven from their historic homeland, and live for thousands of years being persecuted and suffering pogroms due to being a suspect minority, until eventually some military leader with a grudge against them conquers many of the countries they have spread to and commits genocide wiping out a large chunk of their population, so then some sort of international agency like the UN might end up ceding them a load of land back in the area of their historic homeland, after which they start to persecute and marginalize the people that have been living there since they were scattered?
 
2013-05-03 07:12:29 PM

xria: goatleggedfellow: Tatsuma: mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.

Name one head of state of the country of 'palestine' throughout history, then.

So they're not a country, just a group of people being driven off their common homeland. People defined by a common history and shared struggle that outsiders can't properly appreciate.

fark 'em. They can find somewhere else in the world to live.

Maybe the palestinians can scatter around the world having been driven from their historic homeland, and live for thousands of years being persecuted and suffering pogroms due to being a suspect minority, until eventually some military leader with a grudge against them conquers many of the countries they have spread to and commits genocide wiping out a large chunk of their population, so then some sort of international agency like the UN might end up ceding them a load of land back in the area of their historic homeland, after which they start to persecute and marginalize the people that have been living there since they were scattered?


That sounds like an incredibly stupid idea.
 
2013-05-03 07:13:50 PM

Tatsuma: Slesfo: I don't know why he's making this argument. The Muslims had the land longer consecutively (under the Ottoman Empire), than the Jews did collectively, and the Jews haven't had it since the Greeks took it from them... more than 2000 years ago. This is kinda like arguing that I have the right to my late grandfather's stolen car even though it's been bought, sold, and modified a dozen times since, and the current owner has had it longer than he ever did.

We lived under various occupiers in our land for the last 1877 years since the destruction of our Beit HaMikdash. Whether it was the Greeks, or the Romans, or the various Muslim empires fighting each others, we were still living on our land in and the year 5708, or 1948, we finally had our own state again, on the land we've lived, live and will continue to live on. Israel was, is, and will always be ours.

[www.haaretz.com image 640x370]


You mean Canaan?

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-05-03 07:17:01 PM

Tatsuma: Wolf_Blitzer: The important thing here is that you got in right at the start to tell us how unimportant this was and how much you didn't care.

I'm sorry, I forgot we were posting on NewsWeReallyCare.com

That was gauche of me.


leftist
 
2013-05-03 07:22:02 PM

Tatsuma: It's the same name, it's the same language, it's the same people, it's the same currency. Continuation, not recreation.


Israel ceased to exist. A continuation would have had stone house, no cars, no electricity, etc. It's no more a continuation than "NuWho" is a simple 'continuation'. Maybe a reboot, but it seems there is a large chunk missing between parts 1 and 2.

They never identified as such, according to their own leaders and their own intellectuals, until after the Six-Day War, and it only really took a hold after the Yom Kippur war.

And Americans never identified as such until they got sick of British rule. So what?

Tatsuma: There's a reason why more than 80% of Jordanians identify as 'palestinian', it's not because they are refugees, it's because they are more or less from the same mass of people.


Well, any Jordanians living in the West Bank were stripped of their Jordanian citizenship by Jordan in 1988.

Also interesting (to me) is that just as you believe "Israel was always ours" the Palestinians seem to feel the same way about Palestine: "the nation was always there, indeed it is part of the natural order, even when it was submerged in the hearts of its members."

/yes, I am using Wikipedia where there are sources cited
 
2013-05-03 07:23:40 PM
Sorry, that was a bit of an aborted post, so thoughts were left out.

/I get distracted easily
 
2013-05-03 07:25:05 PM

Tatsuma: Slesfo: I don't know why he's making this argument. The Muslims had the land longer consecutively (under the Ottoman Empire), than the Jews did collectively, and the Jews haven't had it since the Greeks took it from them... more than 2000 years ago. This is kinda like arguing that I have the right to my late grandfather's stolen car even though it's been bought, sold, and modified a dozen times since, and the current owner has had it longer than he ever did.

We lived under various occupiers in our land for the last 1877 years since the destruction of our Beit HaMikdash. Whether it was the Greeks, or the Romans, or the various Muslim empires fighting each others, we were still living on our land in and the year 5708, or 1948, we finally had our own state again, on the land we've lived, live and will continue to live on. Israel was, is, and will always be ours.

[www.haaretz.com image 640x370]


Modern Israel exists as a convenience to the West. It is a proxy warrior in the Middle East.
 
2013-05-03 07:30:06 PM

Tatsuma: HypnozombieX: how very anti semitic of them.

Anti-semitism is not the antonym of 'semitism'  (What is semitism to begin with?).

Antisemitism is a very specific term that describes anti-Jewish hatred, and has always meant since so its inception.


We have decided to alter it's meaning. Pray we do not alter it further.
 
2013-05-03 07:33:47 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.

Name one head of state of the country of 'palestine' throughout history, then.

Name one true scotsman.


Billy Connolly
 
2013-05-03 07:43:21 PM

Tatsuma: Slesfo: I see what you're saying, but we're talking about who has control of a nation, not where a group of people happened to live. Just because i live in an apartment for 20 years doesn't mean i suddenly get the right to own it again, even if i owned it years ago.

Your analogy fails on many levels.


Sure. i could expand it to make it fit better, but my point is that your argument that it should belong to the jews because it belonged to them once, for 800 years is flawed on af ew basic levels.

First, it doesn't add up to 800, it adds up to about  726, (if you count all the way back to the historically dubious Joshua conquest) but you're still counting the Exile as time where it was controlled by Jews, which is strange. If you count from the time of david, the first time Israel was consolidated together in a fashion that would look like an actual nation, that brings the total down to 526

Next, that total time wasn't even  consecutively, mind you- They controlled it, then lost it, then controlled it, then lost it for 70 years, then controlled it again, then lost it again),

Next, that was a very, VERY long time ago, and many different groups have legitimately owned and controlled it since then. The people from whom it was taken had it for a comparable amount of time. Israel only even had it for a longer (broken up) period if you count the Joshua date, which isn't historically a responsible thing to do. It was under Muslim control from 1291 - 1917= 626 years. And they had it that long CONSECUTIVELY. The longest straight period of time that Jews controlled it was much much shorter.

So, God tells me that I get to own a car. I have to Take it from somebody else by force, but at that time in my country, hey, that's how you got a car. So I go take this car.

Woo hoo, I go joy riding, and boy does this car get jacked up, but people still like it. After a while, somebody, let's call him Baby, Comes along, beats me up, and steals it from me for a few years, during which time, i just walk everywhere. Somebody else, let's call him Persi steals it from him, and then says, "hey bro, I'll let you rent it from me."

Sweet. I get my car back! Then somebody else, Let's call her Helen, comes along and jacks him up, and says to me, "Hey, nice car. It's mine now, I'll let you keep riding in it, but you're not gonna be able to really drive it. My buddy here is gonna drive, but you can sorta back-seat drive, cool?"

Then this new guy comes along, let's call him Roman, starts sleeping with Helen in a sort of abusive, love-hate relationship, and takes all of her assets, but is still like, I love you baby. He comes in and says, " Hi. Uh.. Helen was doing this pretty well. I'm gonna do things her way, and just have my bro here drive. Cool. Peace out."

So I'm sitting here in Roman's car, but dammit, I really wanna drive, and i don't like where he's going with it. after a few weeks, I start throwing a hissy fit here in the back seat. Roman gets fed up with this, pulls the car over, yanks me out, beats the shiat out of me, and drives off. 

I'm left to just walk, and the car changes hands a couple of times after that, but then decades later, I see my car again. It was looking pretty nice- lot of the dings I left in it were smoothed out, and it hadn't been in any wrecks recently, like when i was driving, or when the other assholes were driving.

I DGAF though, and I want it back. I start nagging my friend, Aurthur, driving an Aston Martin, to make him give it to me. He can't be bothered, but eventually, after I get run over by a truck and hospitalized, he feels real bad for me, and decides, "hey, this guy needs a car." So he finds the guy driving the car, Mo, kicks him out of the driver's seat, and puts me in the driver's seat. 

So now, here i am, driving my car, and this asshole, Mo, in the back seat, won't stop biatching and moaning about how I took his car.

Why won't he understand that it's rightfully mine? 


Tatsuma:What if I was John Lennon, uh? Ever thought about that, big boy?

I've thought about that many, many times.
 
2013-05-03 07:51:13 PM

Tatsuma: Anyway, gotta start getting ready, don't know if I'll have time to post some more before it's time.

So, Shabbat Shalom ya'll, have a nice weekend and all that.


Ah yes, the one day a week where you try to get around the rules that an omnipotent god set out for you.

Brilliant.
 
2013-05-03 07:52:00 PM
Rocket shooting terrorists deserve to get their own land?

Here I was working and being a law abiding citizen. Guess I was doing it wrong.
 
2013-05-03 07:53:46 PM

This a quick scan from my atlas:

farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2013-05-03 07:58:06 PM
Ahh, building a religious state in the most volatile region in the world with arbitrary borders, foreign in tests, and military aid.

What could possibly go wrong.
 
2013-05-03 07:58:30 PM

Thunderpipes: Rocket shooting terrorists deserve to get their own land?

Here I was working and being a law abiding citizen. Guess I was doing it wrong.


So you don't support Israel's right to exist then?
 
2013-05-03 08:08:26 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Thunderpipes: Rocket shooting terrorists deserve to get their own land?

Here I was working and being a law abiding citizen. Guess I was doing it wrong.

So you don't support Israel's right to exist then?


So, when did you stop beating your wife?
 
2013-05-03 08:12:18 PM

noitsnot: cameroncrazy1984: Thunderpipes: Rocket shooting terrorists deserve to get their own land?

Here I was working and being a law abiding citizen. Guess I was doing it wrong.

So you don't support Israel's right to exist then?

So, when did you stop beating your wife?


How is that a loaded question? Does Israel not use rockets?
 
2013-05-03 08:22:25 PM

cameroncrazy1984: noitsnot: cameroncrazy1984: Thunderpipes: Rocket shooting terrorists deserve to get their own land?

Here I was working and being a law abiding citizen. Guess I was doing it wrong.

So you don't support Israel's right to exist then?

So, when did you stop beating your wife?

How is that a loaded question? Does Israel not use rockets?


Against combatants.  Who cowardly retreat to civilian positions.
 
2013-05-03 08:23:24 PM

Abox: Against combatants.  Who cowardly retreat to civilian positions.


You could characterize the Palestinian position the same way.
 
2013-05-03 08:33:31 PM
5/3/2013 - The day Tatsuma switched to Bing.
 
2013-05-03 08:49:00 PM
Anything to deny the existence of Israel, Israelites.

/I wouldn't stand close to Google
 
2013-05-03 08:51:17 PM

Thunderpipes: Rocket shooting terrorists deserve to get their own land?

Here I was working and being a law abiding citizen. Guess I was doing it wrong.


As a bloodthirsty, murderous, hairless ape, i resembles that remark.
Just because my hands drip with the blood of a thousand generations of other bloodthirsty, murderous, hairless apes doesn't mean I don't get a patch of dirt to shiat on.
After all - you do - and you're a bloodthirsty, murderous, hairless ape just like me.
 
2013-05-03 08:53:04 PM

Clemkadidlefark: Anything to deny the existence of Israel, Israelites.

/I wouldn't stand close to Google


I prefer Israels to Israelites. I don't like "lite" anything - smokes, beer, soda - you name it. No flavor.
 
2013-05-03 08:54:17 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: Tatsuma: tallguywithglasseson: Obviously, not you.

I don't get why that's supposed to be a big deal, no.

The important thing here is that you got in right at the start to tell us how unimportant this was and how much you didn't care.


So, since I'm posting later in the thread than you and Tatsuma, does that mean I care LESS than you two, or MORE than you both?  And is this a case where I COULD care less, or COULDN'T care less?

/confused?
//I won't be after this episode of Soap
 
2013-05-03 08:57:00 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: rikkidoxx: Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example.

I thought we were an autonomous collective.


No,   I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune.
 
2013-05-03 08:58:29 PM

Clemkadidlefark: Anything to deny the existence of Israel, Israelites.

/I wouldn't stand close to Google


How, exactly, does recognizing Palestine deny the existence of Israel?
 
2013-05-03 09:00:45 PM

Tatsuma: mrlewish: Name one King of the United States.

Name one head of state of the country of 'palestine' throughout history, then.


2.bp.blogspot.com
I hope there's gonna be beer for all this hard work.
 
2013-05-03 09:20:16 PM

Tommy Moo: "This change raises questions about the reasons behind this surprising involvement of what is basically a private internet company in international politics, and on the controversial side," Yigal Palmor, Israeli foreign ministry spokesman, told AFP news agency.

See, here's the thing: Google was in a bind in that anything would have appeared political. Doing nothing at all would also have the appearance of not recognizing the UN's policy change, effectively promoting a pro-Israel, anti-Palestinian position. It doesn't seem outrageous that they should just stick with whatever is official. The UN is not some underground organization that has suddenly become legitimized because Google changed their references in accordance with one of their policies.



I seem to recall a Fark article a few months ago about Microsoft Windows getting rid of their time-zone map for similar reasons.  Two nations (or groups, even calling them "nations" sparks an argument) can't agree on what the name of a country is, or where the border is between two nations, or whether or not a nation even exists, and it becomes difficult to even report on the issue without giving the appearance of taking a side.

This isn't that article, but it touches on the same issue,
 
2013-05-03 09:34:01 PM
we got a thread coming about the airstrikes?
 
2013-05-03 09:38:46 PM

Tatsuma: Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?


Why are you in this thread there are no dead civilians
 
2013-05-03 09:40:05 PM
And I give exactly zero farks about the Israelis or thePalestiniens either one. Call me back when they have oil.
 
2013-05-03 09:41:24 PM

cameroncrazy1984: noitsnot: cameroncrazy1984: Thunderpipes: Rocket shooting terrorists deserve to get their own land?

Here I was working and being a law abiding citizen. Guess I was doing it wrong.

So you don't support Israel's right to exist then?

So, when did you stop beating your wife?

How is that a loaded question? Does Israel not use rockets?


Imagine this difference...... Self defense vs trying to kill civilians. Liberals don't see the difference, of course.

Imagine if Israel had the same moral compass as its terrorist neighbors, including the Palestinians? There would be nothing left of many countries in the Middle East. Israelis are good people, Palestinians are not, period.
 
2013-05-03 09:45:32 PM
Thunderpipes:

Imagine if Israel had the same moral compass as its terrorist neighbors, including the Palestinians? There would be nothing left of many countries in the Middle East. Israelis are good people, Palestinians are not, period.

Israel killed it's moral compass ~1980 years ago...
 
2013-05-03 09:54:11 PM

Thunderpipes: Israelis are good people, Palestinians are not, period.


Well, I'm glad we cleared that up.  Can you settle the other big debates like cat v dog, mayo v miracle whip, and cilantro: yeah or neigh? I mean with your word being absolute and whatnot.
 
2013-05-03 09:56:55 PM

George Babbitt: Thunderpipes:

Imagine if Israel had the same moral compass as its terrorist neighbors, including the Palestinians? There would be nothing left of many countries in the Middle East. Israelis are good people, Palestinians are not, period.

Israel killed it's moral compass ~1980 years ago...



Sounds more like the Romans.
 
2013-05-03 09:57:42 PM

Tatsuma: Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?


Hey isn't this your FB profile pic??


www.fbastard.com
 
2013-05-03 10:26:38 PM

Mazzic518: Tatsuma: Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?

Hey isn't this your FB profile pic??


[www.fbastard.com image 768x1024]



No, he isn't Lebanese.
 
2013-05-03 10:29:44 PM
25.media.tumblr.com

Seriously. Bunch of people playing in the sand half a world away. The U.S. would be much better off if we didn't get involved.

And, really, what power does Google have to say what's a country and what isn't?
 
2013-05-03 10:31:45 PM

mrlewish: rikkidoxx: There are no such people as Palestinians nor is there a country named Palestine. Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example. Those people euphemistically called Palestinians are actually from Jordan and that area.

Name one King of the United States.


King George-Bush-Washington

/boom!
//you're move
 
2013-05-03 10:48:27 PM

give me doughnuts: George Babbitt: Thunderpipes:

Imagine if Israel had the same moral compass as its terrorist neighbors, including the Palestinians? There would be nothing left of many countries in the Middle East. Israelis are good people, Palestinians are not, period.

Israel killed it's moral compass ~1980 years ago...


Sounds more like the Romans.


Sounds like transference of blame.
 
2013-05-03 11:12:28 PM

Tatsuma: Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?


Tats, you shill so hard for Israel's right wing, you should be on the payroll.
 
2013-05-03 11:24:08 PM

nekulor: Tatsuma: Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?

Tats, you shill so hard for Israel's right wing, you should be on the payroll.


He's not?
 
2013-05-03 11:41:06 PM

studebaker hoch: How about:

Palestine gives Israel all its land.
Israel gives all Palestinians full citizenship and equality.

One state, one people.

/ ducks


Eventually this is what will happen, unless the nutcases in Israel exercise the Samson Option. If you think Islamic terrorism is scary, google that. For those too lazy, serious and respected establishment Israelis have stated that if Israel's existence is threatened, they will bring the whole world down with them. One of their senior and respected historians has suggested that Europe, among others, would be a target. With their nuclear subs Israel has the capability of doing just that. But hey, don't worry about that, be scared of Iran and Syria!!
 
2013-05-03 11:47:21 PM

super_grass: Ahh, building a religious state in the most volatile region in the world with arbitrary borders, foreign in tests, and military aid.

What could possibly go wrong.


Not even arbitrary, but deliberately left unstated. They have never clarified exactly what territory they claim.
 
2013-05-03 11:57:02 PM

Thunderpipes: Rocket shooting terrorists deserve to get their own land?

Here I was working and being a law abiding citizen. Guess I was doing it wrong.


A rabble of irregular and traitorous terrorists deserving independence? George III
 
2013-05-04 02:39:54 AM

indarwinsshadow: One big endless circle of hate that's f*cking never going to end because both sides are assholes.


One side will eventually out populate the other which will render any amount of resource superiority irrelevant. It's simply a matter of time.

/Not claiming that time will be in any of lifetimes but it will eventually happen.
 
2013-05-04 03:06:57 AM

rikkidoxx: There are no such people as Palestinians nor is there a country named Palestine. Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example. Those people euphemistically called Palestinians are actually from Jordan and that area.


It worries me that there are people who think this. There's a region called Palestine. There were people who lived there. Since they lived in Palestine they're called Palestinians. Are they from Jordan or Syria? No. They've probably lived in Palestine for generations. You can't just tell someone to leave their home, tell them they're mistaken in thinking that's their home, and that they need go live in their real home in a place they've never been.
 
2013-05-04 03:16:37 AM

Foxxinnia: It worries me that there are people who think this. There's a region called Palestine. There were people who lived there. Since they lived in Palestine they're called Palestinians. Are they from Jordan or Syria? No. They've probably lived in Palestine for generations. You can't just tell someone to leave their home, tell them they're mistaken in thinking that's their home, and that they need go live in their real home in a place they've never been.


Not only that:

So, as far as male lineage goes, the genetic story is very clear. Palestinians and Jews are virtually indistinguishable.
...
Jews and Palestinian Arabs are blood brothers - although this close genetic relationship probably stems from pre-Judaic times, rather than any more recent conversion of Palestinian Jews to Islam.
 
2013-05-04 05:21:46 AM

George Babbitt: This a quick scan from my atlas:
[farm9.staticflickr.com image 850x921]


Under Brittish Mandate, Palestine was the jewish half and trans-jordan was the arab half.
 
2013-05-04 09:45:34 AM

FlyingLizardOfDoom: George Babbitt: This a quick scan from my atlas:
[farm9.staticflickr.com image 850x921]

Under Brittish Mandate, Palestine was the jewish half and trans-jordan was the arab half.


What your talking about wasn't even officially suggested until 1946(my map is dated 1945).

Go read and learn something. And before you criticize Wikipedia, believe with confidence that they goose-step to the official drum beat of Zionist perspective.
 
2013-05-04 11:07:10 AM

rikkidoxx: There are no such people as Palestinians nor is there a country named Palestine. Name one, just one Palestinian king as an example. Those people euphemistically called Palestinians are actually from Jordan and that area.


Kinda works when you replace "Palestinians" with "Israelis" and "Jordan" with "Eastern Europe".
 
2013-05-04 01:28:10 PM

Slesfo: goatleggedfellow: Tatsuma: Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?


An argument could be made that

I have no idea what I'm talking about since Google voluntarily left the Chinese market because they wanted nothing to do censorship.

Here, fixed that for you.
 
2013-05-04 01:30:47 PM

Tatsuma: Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?


Um, Google shut down their mainland operations to avoid censoring their results.  The only Chinese search available is the incensored Hong Kong serach.  So, you started off by being wrong, where do you want to go from here?
 
2013-05-04 01:36:41 PM

Tatsuma: Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?


And the thread begins with a flat out lie, from the master of the lie.
 
2013-05-04 03:49:25 PM

Apik0r0s: Tatsuma: Google is also a censorship tool of the Chinese and many other totalitarian regimes. So, who cares?

And the thread begins with a flat out lie, from the master of the lie.


He's not lying, he just doesn't count any history since the Jews lost Israel.
 
2013-05-04 07:32:21 PM
Regardless of who struck whom first when, those who urge "DEATH TO ALL JUICE" have numbered themselves among my enemies.

Hint: if it's wrong for "Them" to do it to you it's also wrong for you to do to them.

That said, at this point the most sensible thing to do is to nuke the entire "Middle East."


P.S. Actually the above would make me doubly anti-Semitic because the Arabs are Semites too. So sit & twirl, Kahane Chai.
 
2013-05-04 08:15:11 PM
Uncle Tractor:

So, as far as male lineage goes, the genetic story is very clear. Palestinians and Jews are virtually indistinguishable.

To bad the "Orthodox" Jews, spiritual if not hereditary inheritors of the Jews of the Western Roman Empire, insist on matrilineal descent. This is a consequence of a millenia of repeated pogroms which usually included rape: the Jewish communities (or at least their "spiritual leaders") not only viewed the female victims as not at fault, they also included their presumably half-gentile offspring as full members of the community. The children of rape are not automatically mamzers, if one accepts Chabad as an authority: "When a gentile or a servant enter into relations with a Jewish woman, the child is acceptable. [This applies] whether the woman is unmarried or married, whether she was raped or engaged in relations willingly." IIRC it's also (supposed to be) presumed that when a wife becomes pregnant the husband is the father; for their day the Rabbis were remarkably humane.

However, this matrilinealism means that it's quite possible for even a Cohen to be by Y-DNA a Cossack or a Saxon, e.g., and thereby not a Palestinian in the male line. Given the history of the Jewish people from the Atlantic to the Hindu Kush you'll probably find a more intact male lineage among the Jews formerly of Muslim lands because the Muslims were usually more concerned to rip them off through the jizya than to kill & rape them. ("Somebody has to pay taxes!")

Anyway.

The best thing to do would be to stop regarding people as examples of an ethnicity.

If that's not possible lets just nuke the whole "Middle East" until there's nothing left of it and all its inhabitants but a glow-in-the-dark badland. To hell with all of 'em. And no, I'm not exempting the Kurds, Armenians or Farsis either, even if they're by no means "Semites." So I'm worse than doubly anti-Semitic: I'm suggesting a geographic rather than a genetic holocaust. "Let God sort 'em out."

Yes, after hearing it for 40 years I am sick of this argument.
 
2013-05-04 09:07:00 PM
 
2013-05-04 09:10:42 PM

The One True TheDavid: To bad the "Orthodox" Jews, spiritual if not hereditary inheritors of the Jews of the Western Roman Empire, insist on matrilineal descent. This is a consequence of a millenia of repeated pogroms which usually included rape: the Jewish communities (or at least their "spiritual leaders") not only viewed the female victims as not at fault, they also included their presumably half-gentile offspring as full members of the community.


This is 100% inaccurate, matrilineal descent comes from Sinai, and it was also clearly present in the Tanach, see the Book of Ezra.
 
2013-05-05 03:09:03 AM

Tatsuma: Google, still a tool for censorship


Cause, God knows, it's entirely Google's fault that China censors their search results in mainland China.  Google doesn't even have a presence on Mainland China.  Hong Kong, sure.  They don't censor the results in Hong Kong, nor does the government.
 
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