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(Some Guy)   Sacramento family that took their infant out of Sutter hospital to Kaiser Permanente only to have their child taken by CPS, get their child back by a judge's order, but there's a catch   (fathersandfamilies.org) divider line 199
    More: Followup, Kaiser Permanente, CPS, Sacramento, Russians, extended family, child protective, heart surgery, baby  
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19794 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 May 2013 at 3:26 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-03 02:50:01 PM
Hey scrubbmitter, did CPS take away your ability to form complete sentences?
 
2013-05-03 03:12:30 PM
Okay I'm glad they got their kid back from the forces of chaos but I'm not reading all that to find out what the catch was.
 
2013-05-03 03:17:01 PM
CPS is out of control across the board.  80% of their cases are completely unfounded and eventually cleared, but in the meantime they drag parents through sheer hell.

Someone should do something, etc., etc.
 
2013-05-03 03:17:43 PM

Revek: Okay I'm glad they got their kid back from the forces of chaos but I'm not reading all that to find out what the catch was.


They have to let yet another hospital do medical experiments on the kid.
 
2013-05-03 03:22:17 PM
Lotta Russians in Sacramento...all Wendys are staffed by them for some reason
 
2013-05-03 03:31:07 PM
What a depressing nightmare to read about.

As if that's actually happening.
 
2013-05-03 03:31:07 PM
They got their baby back, baby back, baby back, baby back, baby back...

/HA!  Get that song outta your heads, suckas!!
 
2013-05-03 03:31:48 PM

Revek: Okay I'm glad they got their kid back from the forces of chaos but I'm not reading all that to find out what the catch was.


The catch is they are enjoined against defying a doctors advice. Even to get a second opinion. So, essentially the kid is a guinea pig if the doctor feels up to exploratory surgery when another doctor gives the kid an A-OK.
 
2013-05-03 03:32:24 PM
Sad situation.

Your blog sucks.

Also a sad situation.
 
2013-05-03 03:32:46 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Revek: Okay I'm glad they got their kid back from the forces of chaos but I'm not reading all that to find out what the catch was.

They have to let yet another hospital do medical experiments on the kid.


Don't forget MSNBC said you don't 'own' your children. The 'State' does.

While the State exists there can be no freedom; when there is freedom there will be no State.
-- Vladimir Ilyich Lenin
 
2013-05-03 03:35:34 PM
Why not shoot the CPS workers?
 
2013-05-03 03:35:51 PM

Clemkadidlefark: Marcus Aurelius: Revek: Okay I'm glad they got their kid back from the forces of chaos but I'm not reading all that to find out what the catch was.

They have to let yet another hospital do medical experiments on the kid.

Don't forget MSNBC said you don't 'own' your children. The 'State' does.

While the State exists there can be no freedom; when there is freedom there will be no State.
-- Vladimir Ilyich Lenin


That must have been before he discovered pot, his later stuff is a lot more positive.

www.epm.org
 
2013-05-03 03:35:53 PM
And that catch? A 500 error
 
2013-05-03 03:35:57 PM

Clemkadidlefark: Marcus Aurelius: Revek: Okay I'm glad they got their kid back from the forces of chaos but I'm not reading all that to find out what the catch was.

They have to let yet another hospital do medical experiments on the kid.

Don't forget MSNBC said you don't 'own' your children. The 'State' does.

While the State exists there can be no freedom; when there is freedom there will be no State.
-- Vladimir Ilyich Lenin


*rolls eyes*
 
2013-05-03 03:36:28 PM

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Lotta Russians in Sacramento...all Wendys are staffed by them for some reason


Pizza Guys is Russian from top to bottom.
 
2013-05-03 03:36:34 PM

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Lotta Russians in Sacramento...all Wendys are staffed by them for some reason


When we lived in Antelope I felt like it was "Little Moscow"...complete with chop shops.

But go down to the American River or Lake Natoma on Sunday mornings.
They have their baptisms there. The Russian girls dress like hookers for church.

Yea...I know this is off subject.
Sorry...it's Friday.
 
2013-05-03 03:39:09 PM
I did a big network conversion in Rocklin, which is a suburb of Sac.  I know the Cali's hate it,  but I quite enjoyed that town.   I like to flip through the local alternative news rags when I'm in a new town.  A huge fraction of the hookers were Russian.
-That's all I had.
 
2013-05-03 03:39:22 PM
Well, the page outlining the mission and vision of Fathers and Families finally loaded.  It is what you think it is.
 
2013-05-03 03:39:48 PM

the_end_is_rear: Contrabulous Flabtraption: Lotta Russians in Sacramento...all Wendys are staffed by them for some reason

When we lived in Antelope I felt like it was "Little Moscow"...complete with chop shops.

But go down to the American River or Lake Natoma on Sunday mornings.
They have their baptisms there. The Russian girls dress like hookers for church.

Yea...I know this is off subject.
Sorry...it's Friday.


You got evidence there, pally?
 
2013-05-03 03:41:11 PM
I think I'm starting to get why people send their kids to an Indian sweat lodge rather than a doctor/hospital. Way too many doctors are drug-using egomaniacs and are truly frightening.
 
2013-05-03 03:41:37 PM

Lifeless: Contrabulous Flabtraption: Lotta Russians in Sacramento...all Wendys are staffed by them for some reason

Pizza Guys is Russian from top to bottom.


ahem...

sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-05-03 03:42:26 PM

Marcus Aurelius: CPS is out of control across the board.  80% of their cases are completely unfounded and eventually cleared, but in the meantime they drag parents through sheer hell.

Someone should do something, etc., etc.


80%?  Citation needed.
 
2013-05-03 03:42:28 PM

Revek: Okay I'm glad they got their kid back from the forces of chaos but I'm not reading all that to find out what the catch was.


It was a three pound sunfish, caught with a real earthworm on a hook.
 
2013-05-03 03:42:41 PM

gwenners: And that catch? A 500 error


FTA: "Internal Server Error

The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.

Please contact the server administrator, webadmin­[nospam-﹫-backwards]rev­r­es­nednuk*de and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.

More information about this error may be available in the server error log.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request."



So amber alert? or what? I'm confused.
 
2013-05-03 03:43:43 PM

Revek: Okay I'm glad they got their kid back from the forces of chaos but I'm not reading all that to find out what the catch was.


The catch is that they can have their kid back as long as they never question another doctor ever again.

That's just f*cked up.

Marcus Aurelius: CPS is out of control across the board.  80% of their cases are completely unfounded and eventually cleared, but in the meantime they drag parents through sheer hell.

Someone should do something, etc., etc.


Think of the children, perhaps?
 
2013-05-03 03:44:45 PM

ChildOfBhaal: Well, the page outlining the mission and vision of Fathers and Families finally loaded.  It is what you think it is.


Yes, and your snide innuendo aside, I am glad they are there.

"Fathers and FamiliesTM improves the lives of children and strengthens society by protecting the child's right to the love and care of both parents after separation or divorce. We seek better lives for children through family court reform that establishes equal rights and responsibilities for fathers and mothers "

Perhaps you should read them for a month or more and think about what you read and the horrors of an organization trying to keep both parents in a child's life after a divorce.
 
2013-05-03 03:44:57 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Revek: Okay I'm glad they got their kid back from the forces of chaos but I'm not reading all that to find out what the catch was.

They have to let yet another hospital do medical experiments on the kid.


A few things.

1) Parents do not have absolute control over their children's medical care.  If, for example, a kid needs a blood transfusion in order to live and the parents object on, say, religious grounds, the parents can be overruled.  In this case, though, it looks as if the parents just wanted a second opinion -- which is completely reasonable.

2) LPCH is a very good hospital and I don't think the doctors there are going to be performing any Auschwitz-type experiments on the kid.

3) On the other hand, LPCH is a pretty long way from Sacramento.  That burdens the parents even further.  So now they've got hotel bills on top of hospital bills to worry about.  And, how are they going to pay for all this if they're spending all their time in Palo Alto instead of at their jobs?
 
2013-05-03 03:45:09 PM
The logical reason for the 3rd hospital is a hedged bet. If for any reason this kid dies in the next 80 years it can come back and be blamed on the judge. The only ways to die are for the heart to stop and the lungs to stop so the brain dies. No matter how he dies one or the other will stop first and Evil Hospital can clam they told you so if it was his heart.
 
2013-05-03 03:46:04 PM

Marcus Aurelius: They have to let yet another hospital do medical experiments on the kid.


While it's annoying for the parents to have to go to yet another hospital, if the original problem was really some physician getting self-rightous and not the parents doing something dangerous, this will resolve the issue in short order -- the kid will get checked out and sent right home. It also protects against the possibility that the parents were doing something dangerous (either intentionally or unintentionally) by ensuring the child is seen by a disinterested physician before it goes home.

Overall it seems like a pretty reasonable solution, for a situation where there's clearly a disagreement between a medical professional and a parent. Ignoring either of them seems like an unnecessary risk for the child, given that alternatives exist.
 
2013-05-03 03:46:41 PM

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Lifeless: Contrabulous Flabtraption: Lotta Russians in Sacramento...all Wendys are staffed by them for some reason

Pizza Guys is Russian from top to bottom.

ahem...

[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 480x622]


Never heard of a Black Russian?
 
2013-05-03 03:49:05 PM

profplump: Marcus Aurelius: They have to let yet another hospital do medical experiments on the kid.

While it's annoying for the parents to have to go to yet another hospital, if the original problem was really some physician getting self-rightous and not the parents doing something dangerous, this will resolve the issue in short order -- the kid will get checked out and sent right home. It also protects against the possibility that the parents were doing something dangerous (either intentionally or unintentionally) by ensuring the child is seen by a disinterested physician before it goes home.

Overall it seems like a pretty reasonable solution, for a situation where there's clearly a disagreement between a medical professional and a parent. Ignoring either of them seems like an unnecessary risk for the child, given that alternatives exist.


Of course this is what I was thinking but I had to type mine poorly and make no sense.

So. This.
 
2013-05-03 03:49:13 PM

Clemkadidlefark: Marcus Aurelius: Revek: Okay I'm glad they got their kid back from the forces of chaos but I'm not reading all that to find out what the catch was.

They have to let yet another hospital do medical experiments on the kid.

Don't forget MSNBC said you don't 'own' your children. The 'State' does.

While the State exists there can be no freedom; when there is freedom there will be no State.
-- Vladimir Ilyich Lenin


MSNBC said nothing of the sort. But thanks for inappropriately extrapolating.
 
2013-05-03 03:49:18 PM
Yeah, that's farked up. I'm glad the assemblyman is taking up their cause, but I'd love to see Gov. Brown or Diane Feinstein on the case.
 
2013-05-03 03:51:03 PM
Frankly, I'm betting this story is missing a lot of information. Hospitals don't randomly select patients for abuse.
 
2013-05-03 03:51:07 PM

the_end_is_rear: The Russian girls dress like hookers for church.


cdn.pjmedia.com
 
2013-05-03 03:51:19 PM

eraser8: A few things.

1) Parents do not have absolute control over their children's medical care. If, for example, a kid needs a blood transfusion in order to live and the parents object on, say, religious grounds, the parents can be overruled.


BUT, it requires a court order, which the original hospital lacked and did not bother to seek.  That's the issue.  The blogger is right, a hospital is not a prison and a patient can leave against medical advice.  This country guarantees due process and parents should not have getsapo tactics pulled on them and their children without a, supposedly, neutral third party looking the situation over.
 
2013-05-03 03:51:44 PM
can someone wade through the derp in the article to tell me the facts. I got about 4 paragraphs in and gave up.
 
2013-05-03 03:52:15 PM
Internal server error: Your server's roommate got tired of his biatchy ass taking all the yoghurt from the fridge and put ex-lax in the latest batch.  You might want to leave a tip and bail.
 
2013-05-03 03:53:23 PM

fawlty: BUT, it requires a court order, which the original hospital lacked and did not bother to seek.  That's the issue.  The blogger is right, a hospital is not a prison and a patient can leave against medical advice.  This country guarantees due process and parents should not have getsapo tactics pulled on them and their children without a, supposedly, neutral third party looking the situation over.


I'm not sure why you're directing this to me.  Are you under the impression that I disagree?
 
2013-05-03 03:53:27 PM
The hubby has a Russian name, but I have never heard him speak, of course part of that is the "peace officers" beat him to the ground.  His wife is German all the way, accent, eyes and blondines (she is a better looking New Girl girl.

Now on to the important info (I think, this might have been covered in the first thread).  When the cops came through the door they first one had his had on his weapon.  You know that a woman and child are very dangerest!  Especially one with a heart murmur (see the cops thought he was a murderer did not know the difference between a murderer and a murmurer.

I noticed the fat angry looking woman who look liked she wanted to eat that baby.  The Social Worker must have been pissed off to know end when she found out that they video taped the who thing.  I'm sure in the future in CA at least they are going to come in with guns drawn and start yelling turn off any cameras.  If not you will be arrested for interfering with a police investigation.  Does not matter that is your own house, we don't really own anything in reality anyway these days (and know I ain't talkin' bout guns, just privacy in your own space).
 
2013-05-03 03:54:24 PM
The judge ordered the family not to remove the kid from a medical facility against doctor's advice.  He did not give doctors carte blanche to "experiment" on the kid.
 
2013-05-03 03:54:28 PM

Marcus Aurelius: 80% of their cases are completely unfounded


A large number of cases are classified as unfounded or indeterminate and dropped from further investigation, not determined to be false reports. The same way a large number of crimes are classified as un-winnable by the prosecutor and dropped, even though they are not determined to be false reports.

Also bear in mind that there's a large social tolerance for certain kinds of abuse, that even if technically illegal, are typically classified as unfounded by CPS because they don't have the resources to align societal expectations with actual law.

But let's just go with the premise that CPS is a terrible organization and should be dismantled. I many ways, it is; even when it removes children from bad situations it often doesn't do much to really improve their life. But what would you suggest instead? What would you do to save the 1,500+ children a year that die as a result of mistreatment from their legal caregivers (which is more children than die in drunk driving accidents, BTW).
 
2013-05-03 03:54:29 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Revek: Okay I'm glad they got their kid back from the forces of chaos but I'm not reading all that to find out what the catch was.

They have to let yet another hospital do medical experiments on the kid.


And here's the doctor:

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-05-03 03:54:45 PM

vygramul: Frankly, I'm betting this story is missing a lot of information. Hospitals don't randomly select patients for abuse.


The fact that when it comes up we're always treated to a shiatty blog detailing it instead of a legitimate news source is enough by itself to set my bullshiat detector on overdrive, but the original story in the actual news from the parents had enough elements on top of that to send it spinning off into the stratosphere.

Yea.... there's a lot more to this story than what these blogs are telling.
 
2013-05-03 03:54:51 PM

gambitsgirl: The logical reason for the 3rd hospital is a hedged bet. If for any reason this kid dies in the next 80 years it can come back and be blamed on the judge. The only ways to die are for the heart to stop and the lungs to stop so the brain dies. No matter how he dies one or the other will stop first and Evil Hospital can clam they told you so if it was his heart.


Well, no, you could destroy the brain directly, point-blank GSW to the brainstem, or some other really traumatic head injury. Then it wouldn't matter WHAT the heart/lungs were doing.
 
2013-05-03 03:55:10 PM
Frustrating article where it's easy to want to squeeze some throats. But I don't envy CPS. They serve a critical purpose in theory and are livesavers in some cases. But you hear horror stories like this where they take children away from parents for no/weak/false reason and it makes you picture a group full of PETA-style parent haters who can't see anyone but themselves being responsible enough to raise a child and decide that essentially kidnapping is the solution. Like those animal shelters where you go to adopt a pet and get questioned like you're looking for animals for your torture chamber and no other person could POSSIBLY not want to mistreat this animal besides the psycho at the shelter.

eraser8:

1) Parents do not have absolute control over their children's medical care.  If, for example, a kid needs a blood transfusion in order to live and the parents object on, say, religious grounds, the parents can be overruled.  In this case, though, it looks as if the parents just wanted a second opinion -- which is completely reasonable.

What about cases where parents don't vaccinate and the kid gets sick and dies? That just happened recently and they said it was because Jesus. I thought they had absolute control over opting to bypass medication. Is it dependent on procedure?

/reminds me of that Simpsons episode
/stupid babies need the MOST attention!
 
2013-05-03 03:55:38 PM

profplump: Marcus Aurelius: They have to let yet another hospital do medical experiments on the kid.

While it's annoying for the parents to have to go to yet another hospital, if the original problem was really some physician getting self-rightous and not the parents doing something dangerous, this will resolve the issue in short order -- the kid will get checked out and sent right home. It also protects against the possibility that the parents were doing something dangerous (either intentionally or unintentionally) by ensuring the child is seen by a disinterested physician before it goes home.

Overall it seems like a pretty reasonable solution, for a situation where there's clearly a disagreement between a medical professional and a parent. Ignoring either of them seems like an unnecessary risk for the child, given that alternatives exist.


The parents DID get a second opinion from another doctor at another hospital. The first doctor was talking about surgery. That's really farking serious. The second doctor cleared him and sent him home. The better question is why didn't the judge enjoin the first doctor from practicing medicine for what is clearly incompetence.
 
2013-05-03 03:55:49 PM
They are not, however, prohibited from the great American passtime of suing people. Were I them, I'd make sure any doctor who set eyes on my child knew that I had my lawyer on speed dial.
 
2013-05-03 03:56:14 PM

BiffSpiffy: I noticed the fat angry looking woman who look liked she wanted to eat that baby.


Babies are delicious.
 
2013-05-03 03:56:17 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Revek: Okay I'm glad they got their kid back from the forces of chaos but I'm not reading all that to find out what the catch was.
They have to let yet another hospital do medical experiments on the kid.


Sounds good to me.

Are we supposed to be upset that you don't know the difference between a test and an experiment?
 
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