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(Major League Baseball)   If you guessed one month into the MLB season before someone accuses the Red Sox of cheating, stand up and be recognized   (mlb.mlb.com) divider line 46
    More: Unlikely, Red Sox, Major League Baseball, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Junichi Tazawa, jack morris, Brett Lawrie, Clay Buchholz, games started  
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1454 clicks; posted to Sports » on 03 May 2013 at 9:21 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-03 09:28:29 AM
Its rosin... they show him putting rosin on his forearm tons of times...  and that's perfectly legal and a widespread practice.
 
2013-05-03 09:40:11 AM
I thought this would be about Mike Napoli. Those 2 home runs were mammoth, and it sounds like his hip is gonna pull a Bo Jackson any minute.
 
2013-05-03 09:43:29 AM
Something about stories involving Boston sports just always seem to blow up.
 
2013-05-03 10:04:14 AM
The Ironic tag should be used whenever the Blue Jays accuse anyone else of cheating.
 
2013-05-03 10:21:18 AM
This story is a nice little microcosm of sports journalism in general.

On the one side, you've got people making significant claims based on shaky evidence (basically just a single picture). While I don't want to make assumptions about intent, it seems like an attempt to explain how Buchholz possibly has gotten off to such a good start this year (I saw a person on another site claim that if Buchholz starts letting up more runs from now on, that means he was definitely cheating...even though he'll obviously start letting up more runs from now on due to regression), when no such explanation is currently necessary.

On the other, you've got weird ad hominem attacks (Dennis Eckersley basically said that Hayhurst shouldn't be listened to because he never made the majors; someone else claimed that Morris is just looking for attention to get into the HOF), and the old "He's not cheating, he just finally learned how to pitch better" argument that doesn't make any sense.

And then you have Sportscenter bringing on Curt Schilling to talk about it, and he randomly describes how to throw a scuffball...which would be the exact opposite of what Buchholz was accused of.

Meanwhile, the actual evidence (video of the game) has been almost completely ignored. As usual.
 
2013-05-03 10:40:36 AM

lilbjorn: The Ironic tag should be used whenever the Blue Jays accuse anyone else of cheating.


No one's accusing the Blue Jays of cheating, this year.

Also, cry moar, Toronto. And that wasn't very polite.
 
2013-05-03 10:49:44 AM
No (current) players or coaches of the Jays made any accusations. John Gibbons did not request the umpires look into anything.  Two analysts mainly from radio (although Jack sits in on TV once in a while) have done the accusing.  Focus your anger accordingly.
 
2013-05-03 10:49:59 AM

MassD: Its rosin... they show him putting rosin on his forearm tons of times...  and that's perfectly legal and a widespread practice.


I think it was Mitch Williams last night on MLBN who pointed out rosin doesn't make your arm shiny. There is pretty clear video of Clay doing what he said he did, slapping the rosin bag on his arm, and the rosin is a pretty matte powder, not at all glossy. The argument could be made it's just sweat, but there's another good shot of him in the set position, exposing both arms. His glove arm looks dry as a bone.

Not saying it's aliens alien substance, but..
 
2013-05-03 10:54:14 AM
And now a word from the Blue Jays . . .

www.netanimations.net
 
2013-05-03 11:14:14 AM

Homer Nixon: MassD: Its rosin... they show him putting rosin on his forearm tons of times...  and that's perfectly legal and a widespread practice.

I think it was Mitch Williams last night on MLBN who pointed out rosin doesn't make your arm shiny. There is pretty clear video of Clay doing what he said he did, slapping the rosin bag on his arm, and the rosin is a pretty matte powder, not at all glossy. The argument could be made it's just sweat, but there's another good shot of him in the set position, exposing both arms. His glove arm looks dry as a bone.

Not saying it's aliens alien substance, but..


This.

And his pitches suddenly moving like that? If it were a sudden gain in speed or a hitter suddenly hitting more power, it'd be steroid accusations.
 
2013-05-03 11:21:32 AM

DeWayne Mann: someone else claimed that Morris is just looking for attention to get into the HOF)


It's been four days or so since I last whined about how much it's going to suck when he gets in.
 
2013-05-03 11:23:36 AM

Dafatone: DeWayne Mann: someone else claimed that Morris is just looking for attention to get into the HOF)

It's been four days or so since I last whined about how much it's going to suck when he gets in.


Hey, can you name another pitcher that has won a world series game?

I didn't think so.
 
2013-05-03 11:25:05 AM

DeWayne Mann: Dafatone: DeWayne Mann: someone else claimed that Morris is just looking for attention to get into the HOF)

It's been four days or so since I last whined about how much it's going to suck when he gets in.

Hey, can you name another pitcher that has won a world series game?

I didn't think so.


Babe Ruth.  It's Ruth, Morris, and then it's everyone else.
 
2013-05-03 11:28:39 AM

Dafatone: DeWayne Mann: Dafatone: DeWayne Mann: someone else claimed that Morris is just looking for attention to get into the HOF)

It's been four days or so since I last whined about how much it's going to suck when he gets in.

Hey, can you name another pitcher that has won a world series game?

I didn't think so.

Babe Ruth.  It's Ruth, Morris, and then it's everyone else.


Clearly, you're confused, because Babe Ruth actually lost a World Series:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1926_World_Series

So Morris is the best.
 
2013-05-03 11:34:22 AM

DeWayne Mann: On the one side, you've got people making significant claims based on shaky evidence (basically just a single picture).


People have been saying it about  Buchholz since the beginning of the season. Spots of his hair very clearly start the game wet and never dry. Maybe he's using a greasy hair substance, but if he is and runs his hand through it.. that's a spitball.
 
2013-05-03 11:34:52 AM

DeWayne Mann: Dafatone: DeWayne Mann: Dafatone: DeWayne Mann: someone else claimed that Morris is just looking for attention to get into the HOF)

It's been four days or so since I last whined about how much it's going to suck when he gets in.

Hey, can you name another pitcher that has won a world series game?

I didn't think so.

Babe Ruth.  It's Ruth, Morris, and then it's everyone else.

Clearly, you're confused, because Babe Ruth actually lost a World Series:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1926_World_Series

So Morris is the best.


That's Babe Ruth the outfielder.  Obviously he and Babe Ruth the pitcher have no relation.

Ruth, by the way, was 3-0 as a pitcher in the World Series.  In 1916, he threw a 14 inning complete game in which he surrendered one run, and won the game.  But it wasn't a shutout, it wasn't game 7, and he probably didn't look all that gritty while doing it, so Morris reigns supreme.
 
2013-05-03 11:39:59 AM

bubbaprog: DeWayne Mann: On the one side, you've got people making significant claims based on shaky evidence (basically just a single picture).

People have been saying it about  Buchholz since the beginning of the season. Spots of his hair very clearly start the game wet and never dry. Maybe he's using a greasy hair substance, but if he is and runs his hand through it.. that's a spitball.


Hayhurt's original tweet (which, as far as I know, started this whole thing) said "Forget the hair, I just saw video of Buchholz loading the ball with some Eddie Harris worthy slick'em painted up his left forearm. Wow."

18 hours later, he posted two grainy screenshots, rather than said video.

I don't know what he & Morris specifically said on the radio, but unless radio has changed a lot recently, I don't think they showed the video there either.
 
2013-05-03 11:41:46 AM
This has been a nightmare season for Jays fans, and having Reyes injured after 10 games doesn't help. All that boundless optimism we had all offseason has been nicely crushed into dust by the former Jays players(Wells, Overbay on the Yankees) or former Jays managers(Farrell, Lovullo and Butterfield). They obviously knew our team inside and out and were ready. Gibby hasn't stopped shuffling the lineup all month, our new starters can't get past the 3rd let alone get into the 7th inning, and the chemistry just isn't there yet.  You know things are bad when we are looking forward to Ricky Romero's start tonight after _one_ promising performance in single A.

Hopefully this team can turn it around and make Farrell and the Yanks eat their crow and earn that playoff spot one way or another. Having been a Jaysfan since I was little, this hurts. I'm hoping for some real fireworks next time these teams meet. Heck, I wouldn't mind a benchclearing punchout at this rate. Whatever gets the team fired up.
 
2013-05-03 11:45:14 AM
Bucholtz has always had nasty stuff, the guy through a no hitter, IIRC, before he was even a full time starter.  His problems have been more mental than physical.

Come on, pitchers with great stuff can suck and pitchers with shiatty stuff can be great, it all comes down to head space.  With Farrel back Clay has a binky now and is pitching better because of it.
 
2013-05-03 11:45:14 AM

BudTheSpud: This has been a nightmare season for Jays fans, and having Reyes injured after 10 games doesn't help. All that boundless optimism we had all offseason has been nicely crushed into dust by the former Jays players(Wells, Overbay on the Yankees) or former Jays managers(Farrell, Lovullo and Butterfield). They obviously knew our team inside and out and were ready. Gibby hasn't stopped shuffling the lineup all month, our new starters can't get past the 3rd let alone get into the 7th inning, and the chemistry just isn't there yet.  You know things are bad when we are looking forward to Ricky Romero's start tonight after _one_ promising performance in single A.

Hopefully this team can turn it around and make Farrell and the Yanks eat their crow and earn that playoff spot one way or another. Having been a Jaysfan since I was little, this hurts. I'm hoping for some real fireworks next time these teams meet. Heck, I wouldn't mind a benchclearing punchout at this rate. Whatever gets the team fired up.


While I did expect the team to get off to a little better start, they brought in like the entire Marlins team one year after the Marlins kinda sucked.
 
2013-05-03 11:51:45 AM

Dafatone: BudTheSpud: This has been a nightmare season for Jays fans, and having Reyes injured after 10 games doesn't help. All that boundless optimism we had all offseason has been nicely crushed into dust by the former Jays players(Wells, Overbay on the Yankees) or former Jays managers(Farrell, Lovullo and Butterfield). They obviously knew our team inside and out and were ready. Gibby hasn't stopped shuffling the lineup all month, our new starters can't get past the 3rd let alone get into the 7th inning, and the chemistry just isn't there yet.  You know things are bad when we are looking forward to Ricky Romero's start tonight after _one_ promising performance in single A.

Hopefully this team can turn it around and make Farrell and the Yanks eat their crow and earn that playoff spot one way or another. Having been a Jaysfan since I was little, this hurts. I'm hoping for some real fireworks next time these teams meet. Heck, I wouldn't mind a benchclearing punchout at this rate. Whatever gets the team fired up.

While I did expect the team to get off to a little better start, they brought in like the entire Marlins team one year after the Marlins kinda sucked.


No wonder the Marlins sucked last year, if they only had five players.
 
2013-05-03 12:01:30 PM

Dafatone: BudTheSpud: This has been a nightmare season for Jays fans, and having Reyes injured after 10 games doesn't help. All that boundless optimism we had all offseason has been nicely crushed into dust by the former Jays players(Wells, Overbay on the Yankees) or former Jays managers(Farrell, Lovullo and Butterfield). They obviously knew our team inside and out and were ready. Gibby hasn't stopped shuffling the lineup all month, our new starters can't get past the 3rd let alone get into the 7th inning, and the chemistry just isn't there yet.  You know things are bad when we are looking forward to Ricky Romero's start tonight after _one_ promising performance in single A.

Hopefully this team can turn it around and make Farrell and the Yanks eat their crow and earn that playoff spot one way or another. Having been a Jaysfan since I was little, this hurts. I'm hoping for some real fireworks next time these teams meet. Heck, I wouldn't mind a benchclearing punchout at this rate. Whatever gets the team fired up.

While I did expect the team to get off to a little better start, they brought in like the entire Marlins team one year after the Marlins kinda sucked.


And an nl reigning cy young...

Anyways losing Reyes was huge as him, JP, and Casey seem to be the only jays to consistently show up and play so far. They're playing badly and have utterly awful luck right now (liners going straight to fielders when men are on base and stuff like that).

Also, Bautista isn't hitting a gazillion homers but JP is soooo I guess there is still a dude wearing a white shirt in center field. 3 straight years of unfounded accusations by players even and you tell blue jays to go pound sand, but one night of "what the hell is that?" On camera and suddenly we've got the whiniest club? Come on.

Pudgy Napoli destroying the ball and running first to third on leaked grounders while having a degenerative hip problem? No suspicion there?
 
2013-05-03 12:05:25 PM

bigmf: Dafatone: BudTheSpud: This has been a nightmare season for Jays fans, and having Reyes injured after 10 games doesn't help. All that boundless optimism we had all offseason has been nicely crushed into dust by the former Jays players(Wells, Overbay on the Yankees) or former Jays managers(Farrell, Lovullo and Butterfield). They obviously knew our team inside and out and were ready. Gibby hasn't stopped shuffling the lineup all month, our new starters can't get past the 3rd let alone get into the 7th inning, and the chemistry just isn't there yet.  You know things are bad when we are looking forward to Ricky Romero's start tonight after _one_ promising performance in single A.

Hopefully this team can turn it around and make Farrell and the Yanks eat their crow and earn that playoff spot one way or another. Having been a Jaysfan since I was little, this hurts. I'm hoping for some real fireworks next time these teams meet. Heck, I wouldn't mind a benchclearing punchout at this rate. Whatever gets the team fired up.

While I did expect the team to get off to a little better start, they brought in like the entire Marlins team one year after the Marlins kinda sucked.

No wonder the Marlins sucked last year, if they only had five players.


Well, they have those five guys, and another 20 faceless nameless men shrouded in mystery (or AAA).
 
2013-05-03 12:09:47 PM
And not even a major league reference up in here. Someone tell me if clay smells like vagisil
 
2013-05-03 12:16:44 PM

thecpt: Pudgy Napoli destroying the ball and running first to third on leaked grounders while having a degenerative hip problem? No suspicion there?


If you find out what he's taking or doing, let me know.

\seriously
\\might be illegal for him...but not me
 
2013-05-03 12:50:57 PM
What, is Belichick coaching them now?
 
2013-05-03 01:10:18 PM
SI just posted a Tom Verducci article titled, in part, "The truth about Clay Buchholz," that abruptly changes topic before drawing any conclusions.
 
2013-05-03 01:17:27 PM

Bonanza Jellybean: SI just posted a Tom Verducci article titled, in part, "The truth about Clay Buchholz," that abruptly changes topic before drawing any conclusions.


I don't care if he's cheating or not.  But if he isn't washing his shirt for three years, he should be suspended for 25 games at a minimum.
 
2013-05-03 02:46:52 PM

bubbaprog: People have been saying it about  Buchholz since the beginning of the season. Spots of his hair very clearly start the game wet and never dry. Maybe he's using a greasy hair substance, but if he is and runs his hand through it.. that's a spitball.


If you watch enough of his starts, though, as I can as a New Englander, they've repeatedly made note of the fact that he's literally rinsing his hair in the dugout every single inning.  I'm not saying that he's not using something, but the part about his hair always being wet does in fact have a reason that is well documented by NESN and probably WEEI too, though I haven't listened to many games yet this year.

If he's using something, he's quite good at hiding it, which would put him in the top....80th or so percentile of all major leaguers all time.  Just sayin'.

\sorry, but as time goes on, you learn to accept that people cheat
\\if cheating helped Bonds' team more, he'd have more than just a NL Championship ring to his credit
\\\yes, aware that pitchers are different, but pitchers only account for less than 1/5 of all actions in a baseball season
 
2013-05-03 03:21:40 PM
Stupid baseball media, get your stories straight. Pitchers are allowed to cheat. Right, Gaylord Perry?
 
2013-05-03 03:28:56 PM

Nothing To See Here: And now a word from the Blue Jays . . .

[www.netanimations.net image 247x234]


That's no way to talk about the preseason champs
 
2013-05-03 03:52:36 PM

degenerate-afro: Nothing To See Here: And now a word from the Blue Jays . . .

[www.netanimations.net image 247x234]

That's no way to talk about the preseason champs


I think every single one of those analysts forgot to account for Jose Reyes' propensity for getting injured.

/CSB: Saw Reyes play two rehab games here in Binghamton. First time I ever saw a B-Mets game 100% sold out.
 
2013-05-03 04:56:36 PM

DeWayne Mann: Hayhurt's original tweet (which, as far as I know, started this whole thing) said "Forget the hair, I just saw video of Buchholz loading the ball with some Eddie Harris worthy slick'em painted up his left forearm. Wow."


No, Buchholz's hair has been a topic of conversation all season, way before Dirk Hayhurst picked up on it. Watch any game he's pitched, his hair is almost disgustingly greasy.
 
2013-05-03 05:10:32 PM

bubbaprog: DeWayne Mann: Hayhurt's original tweet (which, as far as I know, started this whole thing) said "Forget the hair, I just saw video of Buchholz loading the ball with some Eddie Harris worthy slick'em painted up his left forearm. Wow."

No, Buchholz's hair has been a topic of conversation all season, way before Dirk Hayhurst picked up on it. Watch any game he's pitched, his hair is almost disgustingly greasy.


I've watched every game he's pitched (except for this particular one), and, as previously noted, he's been seen wetting his hair between innings.

But Dirk Hayhurt said, and I repeat, "Forget the hair, I just saw video of Buchholz loading the ball with some Eddie Harris worthy slick'em painted up his left forearm. Wow."

That's the accusation I'm talking about. The accusation that starts "Forget the hair."

So I guess I'm confused about why you keep talking about hair.
 
2013-05-03 05:13:53 PM

DeWayne Mann: So I guess I'm confused about why you keep talking about hair.


I'm sorry that's not a hair question - or wait - it is? Damn.

If he is loading up the ball, there are worse places than on the arm I guess (esp. since rosining up the arm is kosher, making it seem "normal" to periodically go from the forearm to the ball). I wonder if mixing petroleum jelly and rosin together makes for a good mixture, or if you'd need to keep them in separate patches.
 
2013-05-03 05:15:45 PM

degenerate-afro: That's no way to talk about the preseason champs


I was looking for the annual ESPN comedy fest all pre-season. We never got a Fark thread for it this year?
 
2013-05-03 05:18:53 PM

Tiberius Gracchus: I'm sorry that's not a hair question - or wait - it is? Damn.


I was gonna make that reference myself, but I decided to let someone else take it. Glad it didn't take too long.
 
2013-05-03 05:27:16 PM
My favorite cheat involved that paragon of Christian virtue, San Francisco Giant shortstop, Chris Speier. With the Giants in the field, and a runner on first, the batter sliced a ball that landed just fair. The ball was fielded and thrown to Speier at second, who told the runner on the bag that the ball was foul. When the runner stepped off to return to first, Speier tagged him out to end the inning.

/there is lying in Baseball!
 
2013-05-03 05:40:12 PM

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: /there is lying in Baseball!


Curve-balls and change-ups are lies too.
 
2013-05-03 05:41:07 PM
He uses water to get grease out of his hair?

The man's a damned alchemist!
 
2013-05-03 05:59:49 PM
You want me pick sides between Jack Morris and the Boston Red Sox? Fark that
 
2013-05-03 06:00:47 PM

Tiberius Gracchus: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: /there is lying in Baseball!

Curve-balls and change-ups are lies too.


Then Sandy Koufax and Bert Blyleven must have thrown Damned Lies. :)
 
2013-05-03 07:35:29 PM

JohnnyCanuck: thecpt: Pudgy Napoli destroying the ball and running first to third on leaked grounders while having a degenerative hip problem? No suspicion there?

If you find out what he's taking or doing, let me know.

\seriously
\\might be illegal for him...but not me


Likely HGH or some form of anabolic steroids/testosterone, so go nuts.
 
2013-05-03 09:02:20 PM
Dear fark...


If you arr going to force me into mobile mode at least fix your full site link so i dont get this everytime.


Fark doesn't have a URL called /sports/sticky ... someone spill beer on yer keyboard again?
 
2013-05-04 09:41:03 AM

DeWayne Mann: bubbaprog: DeWayne Mann: On the one side, you've got people making significant claims based on shaky evidence (basically just a single picture).

People have been saying it about  Buchholz since the beginning of the season. Spots of his hair very clearly start the game wet and never dry. Maybe he's using a greasy hair substance, but if he is and runs his hand through it.. that's a spitball.

Hayhurt's original tweet (which, as far as I know, started this whole thing) said "Forget the hair, I just saw video of Buchholz loading the ball with some Eddie Harris worthy slick'em painted up his left forearm. Wow."

18 hours later, he posted two grainy screenshots, rather than said video.

I don't know what he & Morris specifically said on the radio, but unless radio has changed a lot recently, I don't think they showed the video there either.


I'd die laughing if he did that because MLB kept removing the videos for copyright claims.
 
2013-05-04 12:17:43 PM

Orgasmatron138: DeWayne Mann: bubbaprog: DeWayne Mann: On the one side, you've got people making significant claims based on shaky evidence (basically just a single picture).

People have been saying it about  Buchholz since the beginning of the season. Spots of his hair very clearly start the game wet and never dry. Maybe he's using a greasy hair substance, but if he is and runs his hand through it.. that's a spitball.

Hayhurt's original tweet (which, as far as I know, started this whole thing) said "Forget the hair, I just saw video of Buchholz loading the ball with some Eddie Harris worthy slick'em painted up his left forearm. Wow."

18 hours later, he posted two grainy screenshots, rather than said video.

I don't know what he & Morris specifically said on the radio, but unless radio has changed a lot recently, I don't think they showed the video there either.

I'd die laughing if he did that because MLB kept removing the videos for copyright claims.


That would be hilarious.
 
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