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(The Register)   37,000-machine study finds most reliable Windows PC is a Mac   (theregister.co.uk) divider line 108
    More: Obvious, Windows key, MacBook Pro, Windows  
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3888 clicks; posted to Geek » on 03 May 2013 at 1:47 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-03 12:20:38 AM  
I like the prices.
 
2013-05-03 01:07:53 AM  

change1211: I like the prices.


Yeah, I'll take the 0.08 hit, a second mouse button, and $770 in my pocket, thanks.


Sort of sad to not see Acer or Toshiba on the list, they tend to have good ratings from other studies like Squaretrade. Not that I own either, I just like it when Dell isn't 50% of a Top 10.
 
2013-05-03 01:30:21 AM  
img.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-03 01:54:56 AM  
Meh. "Hey, we need press - let's issue a faux controversy, and then rake in the pageviews!"
 
2013-05-03 01:55:03 AM  

DanZero: [img.photobucket.com image 547x364]


Bulls*t. Updates are free and the full OS upgrade is $30.

It is also by far the most solid Windows machine I've ever run.
 
2013-05-03 01:55:13 AM  
Not surprising.

Apple hand picks off the shelf hardware that integrates well with their build+to+order parts (cases, mobos).

Then they charge you a premium for it.

At the end of the day, the less shiatty the hardware components you buy, the better the driver support will be and the better your system will run, no matter what OS you choose to run on it.
 
2013-05-03 02:01:37 AM  
Sure, it costs three times as much and you can't upgrade or repair it yourself, but gosh darn it, it is the most "reliable."
 
2013-05-03 02:01:46 AM  
I love their shift to solid state storage.   I've replaced one drive on my Mac Mini and am about to blow out another on a MacBook Pro because the silly bint that had it prior to me decided that shutting the thing off instantaneously with the power button, frequently, was a good thing.

Spindles suck.
 
2013-05-03 02:14:38 AM  

lordargent: Apple hand picks off the shelf hardware that integrates well with their build+to+order parts (cases, mobos).


FTA: "The company also points out that Windows installs on Macs aren't straightforward and that Windows-on-Mac experience suffers from poor drivers"

Keep drinking the cool aid.
 
2013-05-03 02:15:12 AM  
Like the article mentions, Windows-on-Mac has the advantage of being a clean install, so no crapware. Plus, there's no indication that Soluto tracked uptime, either. I'd wager a guess that people with MacBook Pros don't stay in Windows all the time. Not sure how much of a difference that would make, but if you're not using Windows, it can't hang/crash/etc. I'd be interested to see a comparison across machines with only a clean install (although not interested enough to pay for it).
 
2013-05-03 02:19:15 AM  
Sure Macs are more stable with the very limited software options, many of which were made by Apple themselves. But if you want to be able to find a freeware version of just about any software in 30 seconds you can't beat Windows. Not to mention all the games which can sometimes cause crashes. Even the big titles. Software is what is truly driving these numbers.
 
2013-05-03 02:20:59 AM  
My comp is built from parts, a little over a year old, and has no crashes w/ windows 7. These people are doing it wrong.
 
2013-05-03 02:21:18 AM  
Nevermind, i misunderstood. Must be sleep time.
 
2013-05-03 02:25:59 AM  

lordargent: Not surprising.

Apple hand picks off the shelf hardware that integrates well with their build+to+order parts (cases, mobos).

Then they charge you a premium for it.

At the end of the day, the less shiatty the hardware components you buy, the better the driver support will be and the better your system will run, no matter what OS you choose to run on it.


Looooool!
 
2013-05-03 02:34:58 AM  
People who know how to run Windows on their MacBook are more likely to actually know what they're doing and maintain their computer?
 
2013-05-03 02:45:12 AM  

hawcian: Like the article mentions, Windows-on-Mac has the advantage of being a clean install, so no crapware.


I'd be nervous about a support company that doesn't understand what causes BSODs.  BSODs are caused by hardware, hardware drivers and Windows itself. It's at that level, not the application level.

The thing with Macs is that they use really good hardware, and because you're paying $1200, can do that extra testing in driver design and construction. But as Gig103 points out, you're paying pretty hard for the reduction in a couple of BSODs.
 
2013-05-03 02:47:57 AM  
Uptime is important.
 
2013-05-03 02:51:47 AM  

meatofmystery: Looooool!


Iron clad rebuttal.
 
2013-05-03 03:00:44 AM  

seanpg71: People who know how to run Windows on their MacBook are more likely to actually know what they're doing and maintain their computer?


Bingo. Dual booting (or even just straight installing Windows) implies some basic level of competence on the part of the Windows-Mac people. The sample is biased.

You can't pretend like those people are functionally equivalent to the ones who stuff peanut butter in their DVD drives, like the average Windows user.
 
2013-05-03 03:02:50 AM  

lordargent: Not surprising.

Apple hand picks off the shelf hardware that integrates well with their build+to+order parts (cases, mobos).

Then they charge you a premium for it.


The benefit is that there is a limited number of hardware configurations.  The upside to that is that when you have a problem, millions of other users have experienced the same problem and a solution already exists.

I see that the 2012 MBP fares better than the more recent retina- supporting my belief that my whizzy newer retina MBP isn't nearly as reliable as the 1 year old 15" MBP I gave up just to be able to chuck my display to appleTVs.
 
2013-05-03 03:25:57 AM  

dangelder: meatofmystery: Looooool!

Iron clad rebuttal.


It"s a snarky reply. You'll be ok.
 
2013-05-03 03:29:18 AM  
gwowen : Keep drinking the cool aid.

Um, I'm a linux person (and formerly a windows person for almost two decades), I don't give a shiat about Macs and Mac hardware.

I prefer to cherry pick my own components and build my own machines.

gwowen: FTA: "The company also points out that Windows installs on Macs aren't straightforward and that Windows-on-Mac experience suffers from poor drivers"

Because nobody bothered to make windows drivers for Mac motherboards (But I bet that off the shelf DVD burner runs like a beast)
 
2013-05-03 03:29:44 AM  

Gig103: Sort of sad to not see Acer or Toshiba on the list


I see two Acer models on the list.  No Toshibas.
 
2013-05-03 03:34:48 AM  
BarkingUnicorn: I see two Acer models on the list. No Toshibas.

OTOH, no Sony, no HP, no surprise :P
 
2013-05-03 03:45:00 AM  

Fubini: seanpg71: People who know how to run Windows on their MacBook are more likely to actually know what they're doing and maintain their computer?

Bingo. Dual booting (or even just straight installing Windows) implies some basic level of competence on the part of the Windows-Mac people. The sample is biased.

You can't pretend like those people are functionally equivalent to the ones who stuff peanut butter in their DVD drives, like the average Windows user.


Honestly I think it's mostly down to thoroughly testing hardware compatibility and well written drivers. You'd be amazed at how easy it is to build a computer with components that don't work well with each other. The first PC I built had an issue where the network card couldn't go past 10mb (It was a 100Mb card). After much research it turned out the problem was an issue that would appear only when a specific network card, mobo and video card (all down to specific 3com card, Asus mobo, and Elsa GF3 video card) were connected.

Another example is an issue our lab had a few years ago where a set of servers we bought were reporting their hard disks as failing SMART tests constantly. The problem was a bug with a specific firmware version on a specific WD RAID disk model when run on a specific LSI RAID card at 3gbps Tx.
 
2013-05-03 04:33:28 AM  

Gig103: a second mouse button


Are you from the past? Macs haven't shipped with single button mice for what, 10 years now?

Not to mention that you can plug in any USB mouse you want so it wouldn't matter anyway.
 
2013-05-03 04:50:15 AM  

DanZero: [img.photobucket.com image 547x364]


Way to stay up to date dude.
 
2013-05-03 04:54:29 AM  
So certain chinese crap is better than other chinese crap. Right. Are we pretending macs are made better again?
 
2013-05-03 04:55:14 AM  

Hand Banana: Gig103: a second mouse button

Are you from the past? Macs haven't shipped with single button mice for what, 10 years now?

Not to mention that you can plug in any USB mouse you want so it wouldn't matter anyway.


I don't even use the included Mac mouse, or keyboard. Don't like 'em. I prefer my Logitech Trackman trackball and my Unicomp USB IBM Model M keyboard. But, I'm picky with my hardware.
 
2013-05-03 05:02:20 AM  
FTA: "Windows-on-Mac experience suffers from poor drivers and the lack of a Windows button on the keyboard."

How does the latter part of that sentence mean shiat to a bullfrog humping a firefly?
 
2013-05-03 05:19:56 AM  
Wow, so all I need for a minor increase in reliability is to use a mid `12 machine with a 13 inch display that costs $700 more than the next machine?

Where do I sign up?
 
2013-05-03 05:33:21 AM  
Soluto users install an agent on their PCs. That piece of software keeps an eye on the PC and sends information to Soluto, which then alerts sysadmins about potential problems so they can act before things go pear-shaped.

So among kind of dumbshiat users who would willingly install obvious spyware on their computer, the ones with prefab machines where they're locked out of most admin functions by default tend to see better average performance than the ones who aren't?

You don't motherfarking say.

Also: 1200$ laptop at number one, almost identical performance metric on the 430$ laptop at number two.  Even taking this at face value is not really complimentary toward the Mac there.

//Dual booting also sort of implies something about your ability to maintain your OS and do basic hardware and software monitoring and maintenance, so you have a big selection bias in the case of the windows-on-mac people.  The people that dual ubuntu probably have a similar improved performance.
 
2013-05-03 05:45:47 AM  
of course you can have your PC go into spontaneous combustion 3 times and still be ahead cost wise....
 
2013-05-03 05:51:24 AM  
Are people really still having crashes on generic windows PCs? Since XP the number of crashes has plummeted dramatically, I definitely haven't had to restart my work windows 8 laptop once, and I can't remember the last time I had to restart my home windows 7 PC.

I reckon MS deserve recognition for that fact. I reckon MS still suffer from people remembering the 90s, when you had to restart windows 98 hourly.
 
2013-05-03 06:06:34 AM  
So, a $429 Acer is over twice as reliable as a $2,199 Apple.
 
2013-05-03 06:06:53 AM  
that's a $2000 Mac vs a $450 Acer.

Given a 1 in four chance of dropping the thing at siome point in its lifetime, the Acer is a better buy!
 
2013-05-03 06:15:24 AM  

Slaxl: Are people really still having crashes on generic windows PCs? Since XP the number of crashes has plummeted dramatically, I definitely haven't had to restart my work windows 8 laptop once, and I can't remember the last time I had to restart my home windows 7 PC.


I blue-screened my Win7 PC by override-stopping something in task manager to see what it would do once.  But yeah, that's basically how hard you have to shiat on your machine to get a crash now.  7 is so ridiculously stable it makes most Linux builds look like a wagon full of expired TNT.

I've heard Win8 is similarly rock-solid or even moreso, but given the metro interface (where the best selling point they could find with their national ad campaign was "look, if I click I can run  two apps on the screen at once", because apparently that's a step forward over the seven windows I have open now on my current PC) I'm still going with "no thanks" on that one.
 
2013-05-03 06:16:38 AM  

farkeruk: I'd be nervous about a support company that doesn't understand what causes BSODs. BSODs are caused by hardware, hardware drivers and Windows itself. It's at that level, not the application level.


If you paid any kind of attention while reading the article you'd know that they also tracked "normal" software crashes and non-responsive events, at a rate of 5.6 of those combined for every BSOD. That can be explained by crapware. Really badly coded crapware is also theoretically able to pull down windows with it if it makes memory allocation errors which overwrite windows claimed or driver claimed areas of the RAM, causing a BSOD (or you could do what I did and have a binder fall on an exposed motherboard). Even if that wasn't the case, nowhere in the article did they claim that clean installs prevented BSODs. The benefit of the clean install is that it cuts down the number of active processes by a lot, which means that there is less chance of random errors due to the simple fact that there are less processes for errors to occur in.

The thing with Macs is that they use really good hardware, and because you're paying $1200, can do that extra testing in driver design and construction. But as Gig103 points out, you're paying pretty hard for the reduction in a couple of BSODs.

It seems really unlikely to me that Apple did any of that driver testing and design for windows drivers on their hardware.
 
2013-05-03 06:16:51 AM  

Gig103: Yeah, I'll take the 0.08 hit, a second mouse button, and $770 in my pocket, thanks.


You've been asleep since the 90s?
 
2013-05-03 06:40:14 AM  

brainlordmesomorph: that's a $2000 Mac vs a $450 Acer.

Given a 1 in four chance of dropping the thing at siome point in its lifetime, the Acer is a better buy!


Well, except that the Mac is machined out of a solid block of metal, and if my (far, far cheaper) mid-2009 13-inch pro is any indication, most of the damage will be done to whatever it hits.  (I've miscalculated an awful lot of doorways while carrying it...)
 
2013-05-03 06:48:55 AM  

dbirchall: brainlordmesomorph: that's a $2000 Mac vs a $450 Acer.

Given a 1 in four chance of dropping the thing at siome point in its lifetime, the Acer is a better buy!

Well, except that the Mac is machined out of a solid block of metal, and if my (far, far cheaper) mid-2009 13-inch pro is any indication, most of the damage will be done to whatever it hits.  (I've miscalculated an awful lot of doorways while carrying it...)


So is Acer is lighter? and easier to carry too?
 
2013-05-03 07:01:21 AM  

hawcian: Like the article mentions, Windows-on-Mac has the advantage of being a clean install, so no crapware. Plus, there's no indication that Soluto tracked uptime, either. I'd wager a guess that people with MacBook Pros don't stay in Windows all the time. Not sure how much of a difference that would make, but if you're not using Windows, it can't hang/crash/etc. I'd be interested to see a comparison across machines with only a clean install (although not interested enough to pay for it).


Fully patched, Windows 7 and 8 rarely crash.
 
2013-05-03 07:05:47 AM  
StretchCannon 2013-05-03 04:54:29 AM
So certain chinese crap is better than other chinese crap. Right. Are we pretending macs are made better again?


Do you realize the Chinese build to order and the quality standards are set by the client?
 
2013-05-03 07:08:41 AM  

lordargent: , I'm a linux person


What, on the esktop?

Hahaha, why?
 
2013-05-03 07:15:17 AM  

Slaxl: Are people really still having crashes on generic windows PCs? Since XP the number of crashes has plummeted dramatically, I definitely haven't had to restart my work windows 8 laptop once, and I can't remember the last time I had to restart my home windows 7 PC.

I reckon MS deserve recognition for that fact. I reckon MS still suffer from people remembering the 90s, when you had to restart windows 98 hourly.


MS deserves recognition for that like I deserve a cash reward for staying out of jail.

Though I have to say it's nice to see a Microsoft OS actually doing its job. You have to make an effort to write software that triggers a BSOD. I see Win 7 bluescreen fairly often at work, though I'm pretty sure it has something to do with Cisco AnyConnect.
 
2013-05-03 07:18:00 AM  
This isn't new. You could get a Mac or buy a bloat free one from the Microsoft store
/If you want a desktop just build your own
 
2013-05-03 07:23:47 AM  

Gig103: Sort of sad to not see Acer or Toshiba


Those are the shiatest you can buy. The farkers even look the same
IBM FTW
 
2013-05-03 07:27:29 AM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Gig103: Sort of sad to not see Acer or Toshiba

Those are the shiatest you can buy. The farkers even look the same
IBM FTW


...so you're saying we should all use personal computers made before 2005?
 
2013-05-03 07:30:23 AM  
Gig103: change1211: I like the prices.

Yeah, I'll take the 0.08 hit, a second mouse button, and $770 in my pocket, thanks.

It's a notebook, you buy your own mouse.
I've found that cheap notebooks have poor performance. You get what you pay for.
 
2013-05-03 07:31:14 AM  

FormlessOne: Meh. "Hey, we need press - let's issue a faux controversy, and then rake in the pageviews!"


Hardly controversial, the MacBook Pro has won the title "Best Windows laptop" for a few years in a row now from the PC World magazine.  They're actually really good laptops irrespective of what OS they're running.
 
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