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(The Raw Story)   Cop fired for 8th time for leaving AR-15 with friend. Previous firings for beating juveniles, stealing from suspects, falsifying reports, conducting unauthorized car chase where four people were killed & calling in sick...from Cancun   (rawstory.com ) divider line
    More: Florida, sacks, Cancun, conducting unauthorized, Opa, florida, patrol cars  
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10196 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 May 2013 at 6:52 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-03 07:42:33 AM  

CruiserTwelve: Yes, they do. Cops are prohibited from striking or taking any kind of job action against their employer. In contract negotiations they must rely on using comparisons to other police agencies or just plain old political posturing to obtain their demands. They can't use the threat of a strike or a work slow down to get their way as can, say, the UAW.


I guess thatis why when the union crackdowns in Wisconsin were going on the police took the brunt of it, ow wait.


CruiserTwelve: That's exactly why they have a disciplinary process.


There is a discipline process that is overly burdensome so bad cops can stay on.


CruiserTwelve: Liam:Wearing recording devices, tracking devices in their cars etc would have no negative effect on 'good cops' and would be a great tool to get rid of bad ones.

You are correct,


Then why are police unions against them?  They are more concerned about protecting "bad" cops.


CruiserTwelve: If you understood the inner workings of police agencies you'd better understand why protection is necessary. Favoritism is rampant in police departments. Without a system of protection you'd see a lot of good cops leave police work


If you were honest you wold realize there is too much protection.

We have been down this path before.  there are tons of videos of cops lying to arrest, lying abotu arrest or outright assaulting innocent people while other cops stand around and watch, or their superiors lie for.  These only come to light because of video evidence.  You have never produced one instance of cops arresting their own for doing this without video evidence.  so either police are magically more prone to act like criminals on camera, or cops covering up for their "brothers" acting like criminals is the norm.

CruiserTwelve: Cops are fired, suspended without pay and arrested all the time. In fact, I pointed out in an earlier post that the cop in the article was described as the "most disciplined, fined, fired, arrested police officer in the state."


Do you think if a non cop was arrested for any of those things they would have escaped prosecution?


hardinparamedic: Maybe licensing police officers like we do Healthcare Providers and Security Guards? No license, no ability to work as a cop


I would be for that.
 
2013-05-03 08:01:23 AM  

CruiserTwelve: So what are you saying? Cops shouldn't be able to negotiate working conditions and wages? They shouldn't be allowed to be represented by counsel at employment and disciplinary hearings?

I don't like it any more then anyone else when some jerk that shouldn't be a cop gets his job back, but to blame a union for that is wrong. If  a hearing officer, civil service board or arbitrator gives a bad cop his job back it's almost always the fault of the employer for making a bad disciplinary decision OR failing to follow the proper procedures to terminate the person. It's not the union's fault for defending the contract or the procedures.


This.

I have a co-worker that the company has tried to fire on multiple occasions over the last eight years, and each time they have had to drop the disciplinary action against him because Management screwed up. He's actually pretty close to getting fired right now, his case is in Arbitration, but the case against him is weak (again) so it looks like he'll skate on this one, too.

I call him "Bulletproof, the Officer Who Can't Be Fired", and he thinks it is a compliment. It's actually meant to insult and embarrass our Managers, since he's a worthless douchebag.
 
2013-05-03 08:09:25 AM  

liam76: CruiserTwelve: Liam:Wearing recording devices, tracking devices in their cars etc would have no negative effect on 'good cops' and would be a great tool to get rid of bad ones.

You are correct,

Then why are police unions against them?  They are more concerned about protecting "bad" cops.


Actually, it is more about preventing abuse from Management than protecting "bad cops". The problem is that people see Unions standing up for bad employees of all stripes, and think that is all they do. The reality is, 90% of a Steward's time is spent dealing with the problems of the same few morons all the time. Everyone else just does their jobs and don't need the help. But here's the thing: If we just look the other way while Management tosses some shiatebird out on his ear, what's to stop them from doing the same thing to any other employee? The fact is Unions have to defend all members, even if they suck, really  especially if they suck, for the good of the whole.
 
2013-05-03 08:29:37 AM  

ADHD Librarian: Doom MD: Why are police officers allowed to have military weapons of mass murder? There's no need for that. They should carry double barrel shotguns like Joe Biden recommends.

Spare a thought for the British police, look at what they have to work with.
[img98.imageshack.us image 610x378]



They have to carry an  asian  with a drawing of a gun with them at all times? Why can't they just carry the drawing of the gun themselves? Or is this one of those bloated government "make work" programs. I know asians are small, but even at 90 pounds, that would get tiring after a few hours.
 
2013-05-03 10:10:16 AM  

CruiserTwelve: Cletus C.: Making decisions based on the rules and guidelines set out in the union-negotiated collective bargaining agreement with a union attorney representing him at each hearing.

So what are you saying? Cops shouldn't be able to negotiate working conditions and wages? They shouldn't be allowed to be represented by counsel at employment and disciplinary hearings?

I don't like it any more then anyone else when some jerk that shouldn't be a cop gets his job back, but to blame a union for that is wrong. If  a hearing officer, civil service board or arbitrator gives a bad cop his job back it's almost always the fault of the employer for making a bad disciplinary decision OR failing to follow the proper procedures to terminate the person. It's not the union's fault for defending the contract or the procedures.


Oh give me a break. You're on record as feeling that all cops are good cops and you're all superior. F U
 
2013-05-03 10:52:25 AM  
I want to state publicly that since I usually defend cops from the ridiculous harassment they get from people like FARKERS, this guy should have been fired and thrown off the pension train years ago.

Boo on the union and everyone helping him be such a dickbag representative of the police everyone loves to hate.  They should have flushed this piece of shiat a long time ago.
 
2013-05-03 10:53:00 AM  

MmmmBacon: liam76: CruiserTwelve: Liam:Wearing recording devices, tracking devices in their cars etc would have no negative effect on 'good cops' and would be a great tool to get rid of bad ones.

You are correct,

Then why are police unions against them? They are more concerned about protecting "bad" cops.

Actually, it is more about preventing abuse from Management than protecting "bad cops".


How does more info on police behavior play into "abuse from management"?

MmmmBacon: The problem is that people see Unions standing up for bad employees of all stripes, and think that is all they do. The reality is, 90% of a Steward's time is spent dealing with the problems of the same few morons all the time.


If 90% of the time they are dealing with the "few morons" isn't most their time spent defending bad cops?


MmmmBacon: But here's the thing: If we just look the other way while Management tosses some shiatebird out on his ear, what's to stop them from doing the same thing to any other employee? The fact is Unions have to defend all members, even if they suck, really especially if they suck, for the good of the whole


I could buy that if they were for police resording and location services.  They aren't.

I can support a union that wants their people to be treated "fairly".  Police unions don't want it to be "fair" they want the deck stacked so peopel liek the shiatbird in the article can keep getting employed.  So the daily videos we see of cops lying, and other cops lying to cover up for them aren't punished.
 
2013-05-03 12:05:56 PM  
i1197.photobucket.com

How the hell did this guy become a cop once, let alone 8 times?
 
2013-05-03 12:53:41 PM  
I'm not saying all of y'all are dicks, but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7t4At6S76M&feature=youtu.be this type of crap doesn't make y'all look good.
 
2013-05-03 01:09:40 PM  

CruiserTwelve: mopar1956: The problem is when your union goofs people get killed, arrested, intimidated and lives ruined. I can't think of any other job where I can kill people, destroy there lives and get a paid vacation plus no criminal consequence s for my actions.

Cops are fired, suspended without pay and arrested all the time. In fact, I pointed out in an earlier post that the cop in the article was described as the  "most disciplined, fined, fired, arrested police officer in the state."

This idiot is an anomaly. He has abused the system and been fortunate enough to get sympathetic arbitrators to overturn his discipline. He is not representative of police in general, although many would argue otherwise. How he has managed to keep his job and his certification as a police officer is beyond me.


He has killed people, cracked skulls, stolen property. Pretty sure us non cops would get more then being arrested. How can you keep defending the unions who protect these guy's? That's right, the blue wall. You are part of the problem sorry you do not realize it.
 
2013-05-03 02:14:05 PM  
CruiserTwelve:  Favoritism is rampant in police departments. Without a system of protection you'd see a lot of good cops leave police work.

Oh noes, we'd lose 2% of the force, and be left with the 98% that make the rest of the cops look bad.
 
2013-05-03 02:26:26 PM  

Your Average Witty Fark User: Oh give me a break. You're on record as feeling that all cops are good cops and you're all superior. F U


No, I'm not. If you actually paid attention instead of making assumptions about me, you'd notice that I have condemned bad cops on numerous occasions. Go back and look at my posts in the very article, for example.
 
2013-05-03 02:36:59 PM  

mopar1956: He has killed people, cracked skulls, stolen property. Pretty sure us non cops would get more then being arrested. How can you keep defending the unions who protect these guy's? That's right, the blue wall. You are part of the problem sorry you do not realize it.


The union isn't defending a bad cop, the union is defending the contract and defending the disciplinary process. Everybody knows that this guy should be fired, but to allow him to be fired without following the agreed upon process sets a precedent that allows any cop, even good cops, to be fired without cause and without following the agreed upon procedures. The system isn't perfect and no system is, but in a vast majority of cases bad cops are fired and good cops are protected and that's how the system is supposed tom work.

What you're asking is akin to sentencing someone to jail without a trial because we "know" he's guilty. We've all seen guilty defendants get off because they took advantage of the weaknesses in the judicial system. But we don't throw out the system because of that because the system works as designed 99% of the time. If we change the system to eliminate the few guilty people that are acquitted, then we're also allowing more innocent people to be found guilty.
 
2013-05-03 04:25:13 PM  

Cletus C.: DerPups: Cletus C.: DerPups: please don't be tampa please don't be tampa...


oh yah!

Nope. Opa-Locka

And not a single Willy Wonka comment. I guess I was the only ignorant enough to be amused by that name.

Opa-Locka is down in Miami-Dade and it's a serious neighborhood. some parts of it are safe sure but you know how rappers always give props to 'what hood theys from'?

Opa-Locka is a frequently mentioned one

Doesn't sound like a place I want to be taking my talents.


Mime?
 
2013-05-03 05:09:50 PM  

MmmmBacon: But here's the thing: If we just look the other way while Management tosses some shiatebird out on his ear, what's to stop them from doing the same thing to any other employee?


Not being a shiatebird?
 
2013-05-03 06:18:49 PM  

CruiserTwelve: mopar1956: He has killed people, cracked skulls, stolen property. Pretty sure us non cops would get more then being arrested. How can you keep defending the unions who protect these guy's? That's right, the blue wall. You are part of the problem sorry you do not realize it.

The union isn't defending a bad cop, the union is defending the contract and defending the disciplinary process. Everybody knows that this guy should be fired, but to allow him to be fired without following the agreed upon process sets a precedent that allows any cop, even good cops, to be fired without cause and without following the agreed upon procedures. The system isn't perfect and no system is, but in a vast majority of cases bad cops are fired and good cops are protected and that's how the system is supposed tom work.

What you're asking is akin to sentencing someone to jail without a trial because we "know" he's guilty. We've all seen guilty defendants get off because they took advantage of the weaknesses in the judicial system. But we don't throw out the system because of that because the system works as designed 99% of the time. If we change the system to eliminate the few guilty people that are acquitted, then we're also allowing more innocent people to be found guilty.


For what it's worth, I don't think you're a dick, or a troll, or "part of the problem". You seem to be very aware of what the problem is and even more aware of why the problem won't be going away anytime soon. You know how the system works and how it doesn't. As civilians, though, it looks much different from the outside looking in. Where you see a system set up to protect actual good cops from getting railroaded, we just see a system that protects bad cops from getting punished properly. I don't think either viewpoint is wrong or right, they're just two parts of a fact.
 
2013-05-03 06:35:48 PM  

mooseyfate: Where you see a system set up to protect actual good cops from getting railroaded, we just see a system that protects bad cops from getting punished properly.


Mostly what we see from the outside are cops getting away with things that would bring down the wrath of the entire state and/or Federal judicial systems if us lowly civilians were accused of them.  What bothers me is that cops are universally held to lower standards than civilians, when we should hold them to higher standards.  Unions play a big part in that unfortunate reality.
 
2013-05-03 07:24:36 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: mooseyfate: Where you see a system set up to protect actual good cops from getting railroaded, we just see a system that protects bad cops from getting punished properly.

Mostly what we see from the outside are cops getting away with things that would bring down the wrath of the entire state and/or Federal judicial systems if us lowly civilians were accused of them.  What bothers me is that cops are universally held to lower standards than civilians, when we should hold them to higher standards.  Unions play a big part in that unfortunate reality.


Yup. Nothing like judicial double-standards.

Unless you're any combination of wealthy, famous, or politically-connected, you're little more than target practice.
 
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