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(The Raw Story)   Cop fired for 8th time for leaving AR-15 with friend. Previous firings for beating juveniles, stealing from suspects, falsifying reports, conducting unauthorized car chase where four people were killed & calling in sick...from Cancun   (rawstory.com) divider line 118
    More: Florida, sacks, Cancun, conducting unauthorized, Opa, florida, patrol cars  
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10162 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 May 2013 at 6:52 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-02 08:01:23 PM

liam76: No but it is the Unions fault for making the contract and procedures so burdensome that asshats like this can do things that would make an average joe a felon.


Contracts are negotiated for and signed by both the union and the employer.

Contracts rarely address specific behaviors that can lead to discipline as those issues are managerial matters. They do, however, address processes that must be followed. When bad cops get their jobs back it's almost always the result of the employer failing to follow the agreed upon process.
 
2013-05-02 08:03:01 PM
Ummm yes?

Example: I screw up(or I dont). I get disciplined. I dont have to sign it. I can fight it right up the chain to the CEO if I want, but you know for DAMN SURE I will be in the right if it gets that far. If public servants had to go through that, idiots like this would be long gone.
 
2013-05-02 08:03:10 PM
liam76:   It is his fellow officers fault for not arresting him for these things.

FTA:  WFOR noted that Bosque was the "most disciplined, fined, fired, arrested police officer in the state."
 
2013-05-02 08:05:18 PM

CruiserTwelve: liam76: No but it is the Unions fault for making the contract and procedures so burdensome that asshats like this can do things that would make an average joe a felon.

Contracts are negotiated for and signed by both the union and the employer.

Contracts rarely address specific behaviors that can lead to discipline as those issues are managerial matters. They do, however, address processes that must be followed. When bad cops get their jobs back it's almost always the result of the employer failing to follow the agreed upon process.


As I tell my fellow managers: document, document, document!
 
2013-05-02 08:06:45 PM

jayphat: Example: I screw up(or I dont). I get disciplined. I dont have to sign it. I can fight it right up the chain to the CEO if I want, but you know for DAMN SURE I will be in the right if it gets that far. If public servants had to go through that, idiots like this would be long gone.


But what if it's the CEO himself that fires you and you believe it's an unjust firing?
 
2013-05-02 08:07:34 PM

CruiserTwelve: jayphat: Example: I screw up(or I dont). I get disciplined. I dont have to sign it. I can fight it right up the chain to the CEO if I want, but you know for DAMN SURE I will be in the right if it gets that far. If public servants had to go through that, idiots like this would be long gone.

But what if it's the CEO himself that fires you and you believe it's an unjust firing?


Then you're shiat out of luck? Sue in court? This is what normal people do.
 
2013-05-02 08:08:46 PM

jayphat: As I tell my fellow managers: document, document, document!


And I can tell you from experience that lack of documentation is the biggest issue that mangers have when trying to enforce discipline. If it ain't in writing, it didn't happen.
 
2013-05-02 08:11:26 PM

jayphat: Then you're shiat out of luck? Sue in court? This is what normal people do.


That's the procedure most people have. If you hire an attorney and sue in court and get your job back, is it your attorney's fault that you got your job back even if your fellow employees believe you were fired legitimately?
 
2013-05-02 08:11:54 PM

CruiserTwelve: jayphat: As I tell my fellow managers: document, document, document!

And I can tell you from experience that lack of documentation is the biggest issue that mangers have when trying to enforce discipline. If it ain't in writing, it didn't happen.


I should clarify. Consistent documentation. If you are documenting abscences for a person, you damn well better be doing it for all.
 
2013-05-02 08:14:23 PM

CruiserTwelve: jayphat: Then you're shiat out of luck? Sue in court? This is what normal people do.

That's the procedure most people have. If you hire an attorney and sue in court and get your job back, is it your attorney's fault that you got your job back even if your fellow employees believe you were fired legitimately?


If it was a legitimate firing and not the result of "you fired him on a Thursday when you have consistently fired people on Fridays" even though I just ran over a customer with a truck that day, then no.
 
2013-05-02 08:19:25 PM
If Opa-Locka is such a tough hood, it seems this guy could have been terminated from everything long ago.  He must be pretty popular among his fellow officers for some reason.
 
2013-05-02 08:19:48 PM
Dear America,

You are a strange place.

Love,

Rest of the civilized world.
 
2013-05-02 08:24:03 PM

jayphat: CruiserTwelve: jayphat: Example: I screw up(or I dont). I get disciplined. I dont have to sign it. I can fight it right up the chain to the CEO if I want, but you know for DAMN SURE I will be in the right if it gets that far. If public servants had to go through that, idiots like this would be long gone.

But what if it's the CEO himself that fires you and you believe it's an unjust firing?

Then you're shiat out of luck? Sue in court? This is what normal people do.


Actually you can get a hearing with the employment board if you feel that you have been unjustly fired
 
2013-05-02 08:27:55 PM

jayphat: If it was a legitimate firing and not the result of "you fired him on a Thursday when you have consistently fired people on Fridays" even though I just ran over a customer with a truck that day, then no.


But who gets to decide if it's a "legitimate" firing? Employers think every firing is legitimate.

The appeals process that most police agencies follow is a good process. Yes, it can be abused or misused by some, as the guy in the article proves, but in the vast majority of cases it allows cops to work in a very political climate without constant fear of being fired for arresting the mayor's son, for example.
 
2013-05-02 08:32:53 PM
Ah, unions.  Where would we be without them?  Dead of overwork in a dark Satanic coal mine before the age of fourteen, to hear 'em tell it.
 
2013-05-02 08:33:28 PM

CruiserTwelve: liam76: No but it is the Unions fault for making the contract and procedures so burdensome that asshats like this can do things that would make an average joe a felon.

Contracts are negotiated for and signed by both the union and the employer.

Contracts rarely address specific behaviors that can lead to discipline as those issues are managerial matters. They do, however, address processes that must be followed. When bad cops get their jobs back it's almost always the result of the employer failing to follow the agreed upon process.


The 'employer' is the govt, and police unions have a lot if pull to make sure those contracts are better for bad cops than the public.
 
2013-05-02 08:34:16 PM

Doom MD: Why are police officers allowed to have military weapons of mass murder? There's no need for that. They should carry double barrel shotguns like Joe Biden recommends.


Spare a thought for the British police, look at what they have to work with.
img98.imageshack.us
 
2013-05-02 08:43:18 PM
Guy thought Bad Lieutenant was a role model.
 
2013-05-02 08:48:24 PM
Opa-Locka?

4.bp.blogspot.com

Evilhippie: Dear America,

You are a strange place.

Love,

Rest of the civilized world.


100% true.
 
2013-05-02 08:49:17 PM
The Opa-Locka Police Department

Sure that's not the Oompa Loompa police department?

s10.postimg.org
 
2013-05-02 08:59:59 PM
Love all the  Union hate, FL like AZ is a right wing neo-conservative right to work State that has serious Badge worship issues, the procedures for dismissal of a LEO are set by the  fine upstanding Law Enforcement Loving Conservatives in the  Legislature, the  only use for unions in these states are to provide labor law Attorneys.

From reading other articles it appears that his supervisors are more incompetent than he is and that is why he keeps getting rehired.

The state is reviewing his LEO accreditation next month, lets hope they are more competent than his bosses.
 
2013-05-02 09:05:17 PM

liam76: The 'employer' is the govt, and police unions have a lot if pull to make sure those contracts are better for bad cops than the public.


Of course the unions want to make sure the contract favors the cops. That's the very purpose of a union. However, police negotiate from a weak position - they can't strike or take any kind of job action if they don't get what they want.

Any contract that favors the cops, as I've stated previously, will allow for abuse by bad cops. That can't be avoided. The same contract that protects good cops from bad discipline will unfortunately allow for a bad cop to escape discipline on occasion. Fortunately those cases are few.
 
2013-05-02 09:29:59 PM

CruiserTwelve: liam76: The 'employer' is the govt, and police unions have a lot if pull to make sure those contracts are better for bad cops than the public.

Of course the unions want to make sure the contract favors the cops. That's the very purpose of a union. However, police negotiate from a weak position - they can't strike or take any kind of job action if they don't get what they want.

Any contract that favors the cops, as I've stated previously, will allow for abuse by bad cops. That can't be avoided. The same contract that protects good cops from bad discipline will unfortunately allow for a bad cop to escape discipline on occasion. Fortunately those cases are few.


You are really trying to argue cops have a weak position? You are out of your mind.

And you are flat out wrong by pretending those requirements must be there to protect 'goog cops' from 'bad discipline'.

Wearing recording devices, tracking devices in their cars etc would have no negative effect on 'good cops' and would be a great tool to get rid of bad ones.
 
2013-05-02 09:30:55 PM
The Increasingly Poor Decisions of German Bosque. I'd watch it.
 
2013-05-02 09:42:24 PM
Holy Fark this guy should have been black balled from police work about 5 firings ago.
 
2013-05-02 09:50:25 PM

detritus: JasonOfOrillia: Right, but cop unions are the good type of union.

Interracial relationships are the good type of union.  Always good to have the "that's racist" card up your sleeve.


Well, they seem to produce the most beautiful children.  Almost heartbreakingly so, as this Caliban will wistfully admin.
 
2013-05-02 10:00:12 PM

Percise1: WTH? How can you get fired 8 times from 3 police departments? Why would a department re-hire someone they fired? More than once? 5 times? WTF?
I cant imagine a company that fired me (yep, it has happened) would hire me back and I'm a machinist!

Someone needs to dig a little deeper on this one, because no matter how you slice it, there is a serious problem in the system and it is clearly illustrated.

B


It's a tragic running joke that it's easier to become a cop in Florida than it is to get a job at Walmart, and the joke is not that far from being the truth. I know of way too many guys who couldn't hack the training or minimum requirements in northern states who did juuuuuuust fine in Florida.
 
2013-05-02 10:01:17 PM
They should disband police unions and make it "At Will" like the rest the country.
 
2013-05-02 10:44:20 PM

FLMountainMan: Came into this thread expecting people to ignore that the guy has been fired eight times and make broad statements attacking cops but not the unions that allow this nonsense to go on.  Because there are no facets of modern liberal politics that are flawed.  None.  They must all be protected.

Not disappointed.

And yeah, Opa-Locka is scary as shiat.


You sound like a cop
 
2013-05-02 11:06:18 PM
When you ban the police department from bad cops....something, something...
 
2013-05-02 11:20:54 PM

croesius: Also,

"The department told arbitrator Jeanne Wood that Sgt. German Bosque should be terminated because he had left a city-owned, 30-round assault rifle like the one used to slaughter 20 elementary school children last year in Connecticut in the hands of his then-girlfriend's father.

Nice grammar fail.


Fact fail as well.
Journalism , who needs facts, when I can they can be fabricated
 
2013-05-02 11:45:00 PM
FTFA - "because he left his department AR-15 assault-style rifle"
Stopped reading right there, knew it was going to be nothing but utter horse-shiate
 
2013-05-02 11:53:07 PM
Sounds like a typical Florida cop to me, so what's the problem?
 
2013-05-03 12:10:07 AM

Percise1: WTH? How can you get fired 8 times from 3 police departments? Why would a department re-hire someone they fired? More than once? 5 times? WTF?
I cant imagine a company that fired me (yep, it has happened) would hire me back and I'm a machinist!

Someone needs to dig a little deeper on this one, because no matter how you slice it, there is a serious problem in the system and it is clearly illustrated.

B


He has something on somebody higher up
 
2013-05-03 12:25:59 AM

liam76: You are really trying to argue cops have a weak position? You are out of your mind.


Yes, they do. Cops are prohibited from striking or taking any kind of job action against their employer. In contract negotiations they must rely on using comparisons to other police agencies or just plain old political posturing to obtain their demands. They can't use the threat of a strike or a work slow down to get their way as can, say, the UAW.

And you are flat out wrong by pretending those requirements must be there to protect 'good cops' from 'bad discipline'.

That's exactly why they have a disciplinary process.

Wearing recording devices, tracking devices in their cars etc would have no negative effect on 'good cops' and would be a great tool to get rid of bad ones.

You are correct, but that still does not help the cop who gets disciplined because his lieutenant doesn't like him, or because he arrested someone with political pull. If you understood the inner workings of police agencies you'd better understand why protection is necessary. Favoritism is rampant in police departments. Without a system of protection you'd see a lot of good cops leave police work.
 
2013-05-03 12:36:02 AM
Pryzbylewski?
 
2013-05-03 12:50:08 AM

liam76: You are really trying to argue cops have a weak position? You are out of your mind.


Cops can't walk off the job and picket, unlike what you saw in Robocop. In fact, State and Federal law prohibit this, and in reality what would happen is that the Governor would send in the National Guard to do their job until they could hire more people, and fire every person who did so.
 
2013-05-03 01:11:22 AM

JasonOfOrillia: detritus: JasonOfOrillia: Right, but cop unions are the good type of union.

Interracial relationships are the good type of union.  Always good to have the "that's racist" card up your sleeve.

Well, they seem to produce the most beautiful children.  Almost heartbreakingly so, as this Caliban will wistfully admin.


That's because they're a bunch of outbreds from the deep end of the gene pool.
 
2013-05-03 01:41:19 AM

CruiserTwelve: liam76: The 'employer' is the govt, and police unions have a lot if pull to make sure those contracts are better for bad cops than the public.

Of course the unions want to make sure the contract favors the cops. That's the very purpose of a union. However, police negotiate from a weak position - they can't strike or take any kind of job action if they don't get what they want.

Any contract that favors the cops, as I've stated previously, will allow for abuse by bad cops. That can't be avoided. The same contract that protects good cops from bad discipline will unfortunately allow for a bad cop to escape discipline on occasion. Fortunately those cases are few.


The problem is when your union goofs people get killed, arrested, intimidated and lives ruined. I can't think of any other job where I can kill people, destroy there lives and get a paid vacation plus no criminal consequence s for my actions.
 
2013-05-03 01:42:13 AM

mopar1956: The problem is when your union goofs people get killed, arrested, intimidated and lives ruined. I can't think of any other job where I can kill people, destroy there lives and get a paid vacation plus no criminal consequence s for my actions.


HI EVERYBODY!

web.mst.edu
 
2013-05-03 01:52:33 AM
I've seen guys absolutely fired without justification by a vindictive chief, or pissed off mayor, or what have you.  Guys who don't deserve to lose their jobs over trivial matters.  For instance, I know a guy who got fired for using all his sick days two years in a row.  Nevermind that his Chief used all his sick days for the 6 previous years, and it just so happened that the guy had two months before arrested a good friend of the chief.

Those are situations where the police unions, or courts, or arbitors are a good thing.

This, not so much.  I am willing to concede that one or two of those firings might have been unjust or improper, but farking 8 times?  Jesus man!
 
2013-05-03 01:53:59 AM

HideAndGoFarkYourself: This, not so much.  I am willing to concede that one or two of those firings might have been unjust or improper, but farking 8 times?  Jesus man!


There comes a point when the feds or the state should be able to step in and say "No."

Maybe licensing police officers like we do Healthcare Providers and Security Guards? No license, no ability to work as a cop.
 
2013-05-03 02:01:17 AM

hardinparamedic: HideAndGoFarkYourself: This, not so much.  I am willing to concede that one or two of those firings might have been unjust or improper, but farking 8 times?  Jesus man!

There comes a point when the feds or the state should be able to step in and say "No."

Maybe licensing police officers like we do Healthcare Providers and Security Guards? No license, no ability to work as a cop.


I don't mind what the right answer is, but it's certainly not whatever is going on in Florida with this guy and this case.

You may be on to something, thought.

I believe 100% that we (being police officers) should have a right to fight for our jobs if we're being fired unfairly.  For the record, I think everyone else should too.  But 8 freaking times, from 3 different agencies?!  that's not an issue with a bad department, that's an issue with a bad officer.
 
2013-05-03 02:39:47 AM
Awww, he just needs the money to finish off his hair implants.  Can't they just assign him to permanent self tazer testing?
 
2013-05-03 02:48:02 AM
WWVMD
 
2013-05-03 02:59:55 AM

ChaosStar: FTFA - "because he left his department AR-15 assault-style rifle"
Stopped reading right there, knew it was going to be nothing but utter horse-shiate


To tell you the truth, any cop leaving their department issued or service weapon unsecured or with a person not with the force would be brought up on charges by many different police departments. That is a Cardinal Sin right there. The reason is that police really don't like when it turns out that a cops gun was used in a crime.
 
2013-05-03 03:55:55 AM

HideAndGoFarkYourself: hardinparamedic: HideAndGoFarkYourself: This, not so much.  I am willing to concede that one or two of those firings might have been unjust or improper, but farking 8 times?  Jesus man!

There comes a point when the feds or the state should be able to step in and say "No."

Maybe licensing police officers like we do Healthcare Providers and Security Guards? No license, no ability to work as a cop.

I don't mind what the right answer is, but it's certainly not whatever is going on in Florida with this guy and this case.

You may be on to something, thought.

I believe 100% that we (being police officers) should have a right to fight for our jobs if we're being fired unfairly.  For the record, I think everyone else should too.  But 8 freaking times, from 3 different agencies?!  that's not an issue with a bad department, that's an issue with a bad officer.


Yet he has killed four people and robbed or beat up several others. We citizens go to prison for such nonsense his biggest worry is losing his job.

Some bs just doesn't have paralparallels.
 
2013-05-03 04:34:33 AM
Yet he has killed four people and robbed or beat up several others. We citizens go to prison for such nonsense his biggest worry is losing his job.

Some bs just doesn't have paralparallels.
 
2013-05-03 06:12:55 AM

mopar1956: The problem is when your union goofs people get killed, arrested, intimidated and lives ruined. I can't think of any other job where I can kill people, destroy there lives and get a paid vacation plus no criminal consequence s for my actions.


Cops are fired, suspended without pay and arrested all the time. In fact, I pointed out in an earlier post that the cop in the article was described as the  "most disciplined, fined, fired, arrested police officer in the state."

This idiot is an anomaly. He has abused the system and been fortunate enough to get sympathetic arbitrators to overturn his discipline. He is not representative of police in general, although many would argue otherwise. How he has managed to keep his job and his certification as a police officer is beyond me.
 
2013-05-03 07:15:37 AM
Cletus C.:And not a single Willy Wonka comment. I guess I was the only ignorant enough to be amused by that name.

I was wondering if I was the only one to read that "Oompa-Loompa"....
 
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