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(USA Today)   North Korea sentences American to 15 years of being a North Korean   (usatoday.com) divider line 27
    More: Sad, North Koreans, Kenneth Baer, Governor of New Mexico, hard labour, Kim family, Scott Snyder, Korean American, Bill Richardson  
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9639 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 May 2013 at 2:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-02 02:48:37 PM  
3 votes:
I get that the US is welcoming of religious freedom and all that jazz....but North Korea isn't.

The guy was not just 'some tourist' - he was doing missionary work.  At the very least, he was going in, feeding the poor while attempting to convert them to his own religious beliefs (Christianity).  Most other articles report that he was a tour-guide and made frequent trips into North Korea and violated their strict rules regarding tourism.

I'm not saying North Korea is handling it in the best way; but come'on.....what do you expect.  And before we get on our soap box about freedom and liberty - try to document the long lines and worker apathy at the DMV or any other US governmental building with your camera and see how fast you end up in jail.
2013-05-02 10:35:57 PM  
2 votes:
Maybe after we fix...

This
This
And maybe most of all this

Then we can judge.
2013-05-02 02:45:07 PM  
2 votes:

Cathedralmaster: Forget sending in one person. Send in a whole bunch - the marines. Practice the type of diplomacy that comes at muzzle velocity.


How about we just send you.

/Soldiers have been through enough the last 10 years.
2013-05-02 02:30:14 PM  
2 votes:
Tell them they can return our citizen or we can send a hellfire missile up Kims ass. And mean it.
2013-05-02 02:26:13 PM  
2 votes:
Anyone stupid enough to travel through NK thinking that it is without risk of some sort of random governmental action is a moron and deserves what they get.  If they understand that it is with risk, well then, they should just accept it when the dice don't roll in their favor and their estimation of the risk was flawed.

Good thing he's a Christian, because then he knows that God generally punishes the stupid, so he should be OK with his situation.
2013-05-02 02:24:07 PM  
2 votes:
www.beldar.org
2013-05-03 12:42:20 PM  
1 votes:

RexTalionis: ciberido: RexTalionis: ciberido: The man had a visa. That means that he has the permission of the government to be there, which in turn means that, as long as he obeys the law, he should be safe from incarceration. Assuming he didn't actually break any laws, then the government broke the promise to keep him safe and out of jail -- that promise came with the visa, as it does with every visa every government issues.

Did you not read that he's a missionary who likes to sneak away and feed orphans and proselytize? You don't think the North Koreans would dislike that?

Did you not read the part of my post where I said IF he actually broke one of the country's laws, and the charges are not trumped-up, then it's a different story?

Great, but if he did break one of the country's laws and the charges are not trumped up, are you still calling me stupid, heartless and selfish?

Because you called me stupid, heartless and selfish without any such qualification.


I'm still calling you heartless if your attitude is "he broke the law, let him rot," yes. Even if you are correct about every factual assertion and assumption, your attitude in this posts paints you as the sort of person who doesn't care about other human beings, and that makes me lose respect for you.
2013-05-03 12:07:49 AM  
1 votes:

ciberido: the Just-World Fallacy, and in this case it's because you are a coward, and fear makes you cling to the fantasy that bad things only happen to foolish people. In reality, bad things happen to everybody, nobody's really safe, and your willingness to throw other people to the wolves to assuage your own fears makes you despicable.


Bad things occur.  So?  We all f**king die.  So?  I was dead before I was alive, I will be dead after I'm alive.  I didn't care then, I won't care in the future.  Is there any fairness?  No.  Fairness is our own illusion devised to go along with our desire for order in the cosmos.  No fairness.  No badness.  No goodness on a cosmic scale, only what is.  All of those "reality" concepts are your own relativistic perceptions creating pointless order.

Will bad things happen to me in the future.  Absolutely.  Should I be surprised that they will?  Nope.  Will I take responsibility for my existence?  Yes.  Lord, I hate whiners.

This guy made the same decision that people who think it's a good idea to smuggle drugs into some ountries where there are signs up saying "Death to drug smugglers!."  They get caught.  They get shot.  It is their choice to have the bullet travel through their brain by their actions.  It was his choice to go to NK.  His alone.  If he did not know the potential consequences, he is an ignorant f**k and deserves it.  If he did know the potential consequences, then he is not an ignorant f**k and deserves it.  Either way, the bottom line is the same.  You willing take chances, you should accept the result, regardless of what that result is.
2013-05-02 10:43:22 PM  
1 votes:

Warlordtrooper: I would consider this an act of War.  The US government should not be so willing to let an American citizen suffer at the hands of a foreign government.


If N.Korea were blatantly holding the man hostage, yes.  But since they claim he is a criminal and they have evidence that proves his crimes, it's a different situation.  The USA can't go invade every country that holds a US citizen in prison for breaking that country's laws.   And if the guy really was breaking North Korea's laws, even if they're stupid laws, we have to respect N.Korea's sovereignty.

That said, I feel your outrage, and the situation sucks.
2013-05-02 08:08:15 PM  
1 votes:

Mellotiger: rosebud_the_sled: Anyone stupid enough to travel through NK thinking that it is without risk of some sort of random governmental action is a moron and deserves what they get.  If they understand that it is with risk, well then, they should just accept it when the dice don't roll in their favor and their estimation of the risk was flawed.

Good thing he's a Christian, because then he knows that God generally punishes the stupid, so he should be OK with his situation.

Accepting the risk doesn't mean you automatically deserve whatever happens, it means you are ok with your chances and shouldn't be surprised when it goes to shiat. I mean, you accept the risk of wrecking every time you get in the car, does that mean every passenger ever deserves to die in a car wreck? Grow up, man.


Yeah, people saying he deserves this are idiots. All signs point to it being an extraordinarily sever punishment for the crime.

Now, whether he deserves extraordinary action to protect him is much more debatable and I would lean towards, no. The question should be where to draw the line between ignoring the affair and invading the country. This person probably deserves a lot more help than the reporters that snuck into the country, but the cost of the much help is different today.

As for people saying that sending an envoy is the worst case, I would say that the idea of sending troops in to break this guy out is much, much worse. It provides a massive propaganda coup for North Korea and everyone else against the US even if successful and will be an utter disaster for the US if it fails, the US will face screams about violating another country's sovereignty either way, and it puts a high chance that Americans (both soldiers and the individual) will be injured or killed. Plus the risk of it blowing up into a renewed Korean War is fairly high once shooting starts.

As with the car accident example, you understand the risks of your actions and deal with the consequences, whether they are deserved or not.
2013-05-02 07:40:31 PM  
1 votes:

Fark_Guy_Rob: I get that the US is welcoming of religious freedom and all that jazz....but North Korea isn't.

The guy was not just 'some tourist' - he was doing missionary work.  At the very least, he was going in, feeding the poor while attempting to convert them to his own religious beliefs (Christianity).  Most other articles report that he was a tour-guide and made frequent trips into North Korea and violated their strict rules regarding tourism.

I'm not saying North Korea is handling it in the best way; but come'on.....what do you expect.  And before we get on our soap box about freedom and liberty - try to document the long lines and worker apathy at the DMV or any other US governmental building with your camera and see how fast you end up in jail.


To those who say he deserves it just for being dumb enough to go there, I say "up yours". On the other hand, if what you say is true and he did break laws, habitually, then yeah, he deserves whatever reasonable (for n.korea) punishment he gets.

More info on the charges and evidence would be nice.
2013-05-02 07:27:57 PM  
1 votes:

bugmn99: Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.


Don't do the time if they can't prove the crime.
2013-05-02 04:45:58 PM  
1 votes:
I read his crime was taking pics of starving kids. Best Korea frowns on things like that.

He'll be traded back, probably just for having an important person visit and ask nicely.

As for the war mongers, you'd have better luck taking over that country with reliable food rations. Hungry people follow the guy who can feed them.
2013-05-02 04:07:46 PM  
1 votes:

RexTalionis: He ignored the warning label. We have no obligation to help him.


Well, I unfortunately disagree with the Dept. of State, then. I find it bullshiat that, yes, even though someone will be dumb enough to wander there, we throw up our hands and refuse to do anything for our citizens, letting them sit in Best Korea for years in hard labor lockup. But, a lot of shiat about the way our government runs pisses me the hell off, so that really isn't any different than how I feel any other day of the week.
2013-05-02 03:56:25 PM  
1 votes:

RoxtarRyan: Hey, because some asshats in our country do stupid shiat, I have to deal with dumb farking warning labels over every goddamn thing I buy stating the complete obvious (don't use toasters in the bathtub, don't let children play with plastic bags, etc. etc.). We look out for our own, prevent the dumb from doing dumb shiat, and when they do end up doing dumb shiat (and they always do), we back each other up to help each other out and maybe see what we can do to prevent it from happening again.


He got his warning label. There's a damn travel advisory from the Secretary of State that says:

"The Department of State continues to warn U.S. citizens about travel to North Korea (Democratic People's Republic of Korea, or DPRK). Travel by U.S. citizens to North Korea is not routine, and U.S. citizens crossing into North Korea, even accidentally, have been subject to arbitrary arrest and long-term detention. Since January 2009, four U.S. citizens have been arrested for entering North Korea illegally, and two U.S. citizens who entered on valid DPRK visas were arrested inside North Korea on other charges. This replaces the Travel Warning issued for North Korea on September 11, 2012, and it reminds U.S. citizens about the serious risks involved in traveling to the DPRK.
...
Foreign visitors to North Korea may be arrested, detained, or expelled for activities that would not be considered criminal outside North Korea, including involvement in unsanctioned religious and/or political activities (whether those activities took place inside or outside North Korea), unauthorized travel, or unauthorized interaction with the local population. North Korean security personnel may regard as espionage unauthorized or unescorted travel inside North Korea and unauthorized attempts to speak directly to North Korean citizens. North Korean authorities may fine or arrest travelers for exchanging currency with an unauthorized vendor, for taking unauthorized photographs, or for shopping at stores not designated for foreigners. It is a criminal act in North Korea to show disrespect to the country's former leaders, Kim Jong Il and Kim Il Sung, or to the current leader, Kim Jong Un.
...
Since the United States does not maintain diplomatic or consular relations with North Korea, the U.S. government has no means to provide normal consular services to U.S. citizens in North Korea. The Embassy of Sweden, the U.S. Protecting Power in the DPRK capital of Pyongyang, provides limited consular services to U.S. citizens traveling in North Korea who are ill, injured, arrested, or who have died while there. The U.S.-DPRK Interim Consular Agreement provides that North Korea will notify the Embassy of Sweden within four days of an arrest or detention of a U.S. citizen and will allow consular visits by the Swedish Embassy within two days after a request is made. However, the DPRK government routinely delays or denies consular access. "

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_5907.html

He ignored the warning label. We have no obligation to help him.
2013-05-02 03:52:30 PM  
1 votes:

nekom: So which former President will we send to get this one released?

 how about Ford
images.defensetech.org
2013-05-02 03:51:20 PM  
1 votes:
If anyone who has lived in or been raised in North Korea wants to chime in here, I'm all ears.  Otherwise, you morans are all relying on media reports of what CNN wants you to believe.
2013-05-02 03:42:22 PM  
1 votes:

RexTalionis: Warlordtrooper: RexTalionis: Warlordtrooper: I would consider this an act of War.  The US government should not be so willing to let an American citizen suffer at the hands of a foreign government.

Why? He's an idiot who put himself in danger, against all common sense and the advice of the State Department. Why should we start a international incident over him?

Because He's a US citizen, THAT'S WHY.

So? He assumed the risk when he decided that he can saunter over into a country that is hostile to us with no consequences.


Hey, because some asshats in our country do stupid shiat, I have to deal with dumb farking warning labels over every goddamn thing I buy stating the complete obvious (don't use toasters in the bathtub, don't let children play with plastic bags, etc. etc.). We look out for our own, prevent the dumb from doing dumb shiat, and when they do end up doing dumb shiat (and they always do), we back each other up to help each other out and maybe see what we can do to prevent it from happening again. You can't pick and choose which of your people have rights and protections provided by the government and who don't. Someone who goes and tries to murder a child-raping psychopath has the same protections offered to him as a nun does. If either of them fark up, hey, we do what we can to help them out, because that is what we farking do. We are happy to do it for people we like, and we suck it up for people who "deserve it". We stand as one, with the brilliant scientists and leaders, and scumbag shiatheads.

Period.
2013-05-02 03:17:16 PM  
1 votes:

Warlordtrooper: I would consider this an act of War.  The US government should not be so willing to let an American citizen suffer at the hands of a foreign government.


Why? He's an idiot who put himself in danger, against all common sense and the advice of the State Department. Why should we start a international incident over him?
2013-05-02 02:38:52 PM  
1 votes:
Forget sending in one person. Send in a whole bunch - the marines. Practice the type of diplomacy that comes at muzzle velocity.
2013-05-02 02:35:22 PM  
1 votes:
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
2013-05-02 02:33:40 PM  
1 votes:
We should just make a trade to get this guy back, Dennis Rodman ought to do nicely.
2013-05-02 02:32:09 PM  
1 votes:
We shouldn't be trying to bail people out who are too stupid to understand not to go into North Korea.
2013-05-02 02:31:11 PM  
1 votes:

nekom: So which former President will we send to get this one released?


Trade Bush for him.
2013-05-02 02:29:03 PM  
1 votes:

Why Would I Read the Article: Well, I mean...it says right there that his crimes were proved with evidence. Evidence!


They clearly learned from the FBI "investigation" into the Boston bombings.
2013-05-02 02:25:54 PM  
1 votes:
A guilty verdict was inevitable after another KCNA report Saturday claimed "he admitted that he committed crimes aimed to topple the DPRK with hostility toward it had the ever-loving shiat tortured out of him until he admitted whatever his captors wanted him to say to make it stop.  His crimes were proved by evidence because we said so."

fark that regime.  fark it long and fark it hard with a cactus covered in cayenne.
2013-05-02 02:22:23 PM  
1 votes:

nekom: So which former President will we send to get this one released?


They won't release him until he fixes their missiles and teaches them how to unfriend someone on facebook.
 
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