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(USA Today)   North Korea sentences American to 15 years of being a North Korean   (usatoday.com) divider line 195
    More: Sad, North Koreans, Kenneth Baer, Governor of New Mexico, hard labour, Kim family, Scott Snyder, Korean American, Bill Richardson  
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9639 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 May 2013 at 2:19 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-02 07:23:12 PM  

horsepocket: He went to THEIR country and broke THEIR laws. It is extraordinarily simple.


We constantly work with countries where people have gotten into trouble overseas, or at the very least, ensure that their trial is at least fair and just for all parties, and this goes for for people who are visiting here, as well as our own who are abroad. The fact that for too many years we have let this country stomp their feet, call us the devil, threaten the world with attacks, and all we've done is give them more food and more aid to shut them up while they continue to pull bullshiat "justice" on everyone else is the world is farking dumb. This shiat pisses me off. Our country spends hundreds of billions of dollars and thousand of lives of soldiers going after make believe WMDs when these assholes actually have them, threaten to use them, and the only we we respond to NK to damn near anything is "hey guys, we'll give you LESS food next time!", and really? That is going to fix their shiat?

This goes beyond just having them give countless US and UN citizens years or decades of hard labor for taking pictures or talking to locals, this is about a country that just so goddamn backwards that I really wish a world power would just man up and tell NK to put on their big boy pants. Don't want to play along with the rest of the world when it comes to human rights, or be a responsible member of the countries who are nuclear powers, or enjoy trade with all the other countries? Then fark you. No more aid, no more money, no more giving you tons of free shiat so you stop your bellyaching and threatening to blow up other countries for a few weeks. Want to dance? Roll up your sleeves, or STFU and pick up the program that the rest of the civilized world is on and earn your place.
 
2013-05-02 07:24:06 PM  

rosebud_the_sled: Anyone stupid enough to travel through NK thinking that it is without risk of some sort of random governmental action is a moron and deserves what they get.  If they understand that it is with risk, well then, they should just accept it when the dice don't roll in their favor and their estimation of the risk was flawed.

Good thing he's a Christian, because then he knows that God generally punishes the stupid, so he should be OK with his situation.


Accepting the risk doesn't mean you automatically deserve whatever happens, it means you are ok with your chances and shouldn't be surprised when it goes to shiat. I mean, you accept the risk of wrecking every time you get in the car, does that mean every passenger ever deserves to die in a car wreck? Grow up, man.
 
2013-05-02 07:27:57 PM  

bugmn99: Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.


Don't do the time if they can't prove the crime.
 
2013-05-02 07:32:07 PM  

SirHolo: I just watched the documentary film "Crossing the Line."  Highly recommended

The guy defected during the Korean war, and says in the film that he has no regrets.  He is also fatter than Un, so probably gets lots of freebies.  Even says that he got extra rations because he brought an M-16 over with him.

He and three other defecators defectors acted in anti-American propaganda films, so he's a celebrity of sorts.

Currently smoking and drinking himself to death, so there's that.


I'm sure he is living quite well, a former american defector is an invaluable propaganda piece. And even if he regrets it, its not like they'll let him leave now, so he may as well live it up.
 
2013-05-02 07:32:57 PM  
The United States on Thursday demanded North Korea grant amnesty and release a Korean-American sentenced to 15 years

Showing yet again how serious Zero is taken on the international stage.
 
2013-05-02 07:40:31 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I get that the US is welcoming of religious freedom and all that jazz....but North Korea isn't.

The guy was not just 'some tourist' - he was doing missionary work.  At the very least, he was going in, feeding the poor while attempting to convert them to his own religious beliefs (Christianity).  Most other articles report that he was a tour-guide and made frequent trips into North Korea and violated their strict rules regarding tourism.

I'm not saying North Korea is handling it in the best way; but come'on.....what do you expect.  And before we get on our soap box about freedom and liberty - try to document the long lines and worker apathy at the DMV or any other US governmental building with your camera and see how fast you end up in jail.


To those who say he deserves it just for being dumb enough to go there, I say "up yours". On the other hand, if what you say is true and he did break laws, habitually, then yeah, he deserves whatever reasonable (for n.korea) punishment he gets.

More info on the charges and evidence would be nice.
 
2013-05-02 07:45:17 PM  

Mellotiger: Accepting the risk doesn't mean you automatically deserve whatever happens, it means you are ok with your chances and shouldn't be surprised when it goes to shiat. I mean, you accept the risk of wrecking every time you get in the car, does that mean every passenger ever deserves to die in a car wreck? Grow up, man.


Everything has consequences, some are more obvious than others.  I take absolute credit for all of my decisions, good or bad.  Does that make me a child because I accept that every adult - including myself - must take responsibility for their actions?  Are you from some alternate reality where there are no repercussions for your actions?

Let's say I put a blindfold on and start slamming the table with a hammer in front of me that I am holding onto with my other hand.  After repeated whacks, I strike my hand, smashing it.  In your world, would an adult blame everyone else except for themselves?  Is it 100% certainty that I would smash my hand?  No.  Is it likely?  Yes.  If I got away with hitting the table with the hammer without hurting myself any indicator that I would never hurt myself in the future?

Going into NK at this time has roughly the same probability of something weird happening as the hammer slamming example.  I have no sympathy for him.  I do have sympathy for anyone emotionally dependent upon him; however, he would have the greatest responsibility for them.
 
2013-05-02 07:46:12 PM  
Some places in the world an American can be kidnapped by thugs to extort a ransom.
Some places in the world an American can be kidnapped by religious thugs to be murdered.
Some places in the world an American can be kidnapped by government thugs and sentenced to 15 years for being an American.
The only difference is the thugs agenda.
 
2013-05-02 07:50:00 PM  

OnlyM3: The United States on Thursday demanded North Korea grant amnesty and release a Korean-American sentenced to 15 years


Well, that settles that.
 
2013-05-02 07:58:12 PM  

TrollingForColumbine: nekom: So which former President will we send to get this one released?
 how about Ford
[images.defensetech.org image 440x286]


Go all out and send George Washington.

www.maritimequest.com
 
2013-05-02 07:58:37 PM  
Mellotiger:   I'm sure he is living quite well, a former american defector is an invaluable propaganda piece. And even if he regrets it, its not like they'll let him leave now, so he may as well live it up.

He is living in Pyongyang, which is supposed to be a privilege and as someone noted previously,  he does look well fed.  Otherwise, any person in the US with a remotely middle class life easily has better standards of living than him.  No access to internet and Western media (movies, TV, books).  No trips anywhere.  Sounds like loads of fun.

Watch the film - I think it's on Youtube.
 
2013-05-02 08:05:43 PM  

nekom: So which former President will we send to get this one released?


President Rodman.
 
2013-05-02 08:08:15 PM  

Mellotiger: rosebud_the_sled: Anyone stupid enough to travel through NK thinking that it is without risk of some sort of random governmental action is a moron and deserves what they get.  If they understand that it is with risk, well then, they should just accept it when the dice don't roll in their favor and their estimation of the risk was flawed.

Good thing he's a Christian, because then he knows that God generally punishes the stupid, so he should be OK with his situation.

Accepting the risk doesn't mean you automatically deserve whatever happens, it means you are ok with your chances and shouldn't be surprised when it goes to shiat. I mean, you accept the risk of wrecking every time you get in the car, does that mean every passenger ever deserves to die in a car wreck? Grow up, man.


Yeah, people saying he deserves this are idiots. All signs point to it being an extraordinarily sever punishment for the crime.

Now, whether he deserves extraordinary action to protect him is much more debatable and I would lean towards, no. The question should be where to draw the line between ignoring the affair and invading the country. This person probably deserves a lot more help than the reporters that snuck into the country, but the cost of the much help is different today.

As for people saying that sending an envoy is the worst case, I would say that the idea of sending troops in to break this guy out is much, much worse. It provides a massive propaganda coup for North Korea and everyone else against the US even if successful and will be an utter disaster for the US if it fails, the US will face screams about violating another country's sovereignty either way, and it puts a high chance that Americans (both soldiers and the individual) will be injured or killed. Plus the risk of it blowing up into a renewed Korean War is fairly high once shooting starts.

As with the car accident example, you understand the risks of your actions and deal with the consequences, whether they are deserved or not.
 
2013-05-02 08:10:18 PM  

rosebud_the_sled: Mellotiger: Accepting the risk doesn't mean you automatically deserve whatever happens, it means you are ok with your chances and shouldn't be surprised when it goes to shiat. I mean, you accept the risk of wrecking every time you get in the car, does that mean every passenger ever deserves to die in a car wreck? Grow up, man.

Everything has consequences, some are more obvious than others.  I take absolute credit for all of my decisions, good or bad.  Does that make me a child because I accept that every adult - including myself - must take responsibility for their actions?  Are you from some alternate reality where there are no repercussions for your actions?

Let's say I put a blindfold on and start slamming the table with a hammer in front of me that I am holding onto with my other hand.  After repeated whacks, I strike my hand, smashing it.  In your world, would an adult blame everyone else except for themselves?  Is it 100% certainty that I would smash my hand?  No.  Is it likely?  Yes.  If I got away with hitting the table with the hammer without hurting myself any indicator that I would never hurt myself in the future?

Going into NK at this time has roughly the same probability of something weird happening as the hammer slamming example.  I have no sympathy for him.  I do have sympathy for anyone emotionally dependent upon him; however, he would have the greatest responsibility for them.


You misunderstand me, apparently. I'm not saying people shouldn't have repercussions based upon, or otherwise be held responsible for, their actions. I believe everyone should claim full responsibility for all of their actions, period. but claiming responsibility doesn't mean one DESERVES the outcome, necessarily. I thought my analogy about car crashes illustrated this quite nicely, but I guess it was lost on you. Lets try another. Lets say two people were having a discussion on the internet, and one said "you shut up or you'll regret it" and then the other does not comply, thereby accepting the risk of the aforementioned "regret". Then the first guy, who made the threat, burns down the second guys house. Does the second guy deserve it?
 
2013-05-02 08:34:17 PM  

dywed88: This person probably deserves a lot more help than the reporters that snuck into the country, but the cost of the much help is different today.


That's the key issue here. Jong-Il's machinations were usually calculated; part of a cat-and-mouse we were used to, and with the understanding that they (DPRK) wouldn't do certain things. Sending Clinton was with the hope not only of getting the reporters released, but that it would open the way to more positive dialogue.

This time is much different. The Syrian "red line" may be getting all the talking points lately, but North Korea had one too, and they crossed it with the nuclear test in February. That act was met with a "alright, step too far, show's over, Junior. No more bribes", but North Korea only responded to that by being even more belligerent in the hopes that threats amped up to unprecedented levels would get what they want... which is why....

dywed88: As for people saying that sending an envoy is the worst case,


..that's the worst case. It would be rewarding the brinksmanship. Now, I'm not saying sending in SEALs is a -good- option; it's an awful one, and we may as well go full-scale at that point; I said that to emphasize my point on how bad an idea sending another envoy would be.
 
2013-05-02 08:58:04 PM  

rosebud_the_sled: Anyone stupid enough to travel through NK thinking that it is without risk of some sort of random governmental action is a moron and deserves what they get.


This is essentially the Just-World Fallacy, and in this case it's because you are a coward, and fear makes you cling to the fantasy that bad things only happen to foolish people.  In reality, bad things happen to everybody, nobody's really safe, and your willingness to throw other people to the wolves to assuage your own fears makes you despicable.
 
2013-05-02 09:14:00 PM  

SirEattonHogg: He is living in Pyongyang, which is supposed to be a privilege and as someone noted previously, he does look well fed. Otherwise, any person in the US with a remotely middle class life easily has better standards of living than him. No access to internet and Western media (movies, TV, books). No trips anywhere. Sounds like loads of fun.


Actually, dude has access to twitter. No am I not making this up.

https://twitter.com/JamesDresnok

He's not very active though. From what I understand he's in pretty poor health these days, not surprising since he didn't look that good in the documentary which was filmed 7 or 8 years ago now.
 
2013-05-02 09:39:02 PM  

TV's Vinnie: Sorry guy. You're not white enough to get a diplomatic mission.


if it were a hot Asian chick with a nice ass, Fartbongo might be interested in diplomacy as well.
 
2013-05-02 09:46:49 PM  

Gosling: RexTalionis: So? He assumed the risk when he decided that he can saunter over into a country that is hostile to us with no consequences.

He's still a US citizen. Regardless of why he's there, he's a US citizen, and we his countrymen are obligated as such to get him out. We don't leave men behind.


People arrested for breaking the laws of foreign countries while abroad? Sure we do.  As a tourist (or missionary, or whatever) you don't have diplomatic immunity.

Of course this is NK and there's various politics going on so it might be different, but just as a general rule, yes, Americans can (and do!) serve long prison sentences in foreign countries if they break laws.

SirEattonHogg: RexTalionis: He got his warning label. There's a damn travel advisory from the Secretary of State that says:


The article says that he entered the DPRK either as a tourist or tour operator.  Meaning, atleast based on this article, he didn't sneak in, but rather applied through their system to come in legally.  Further the article mentions that he came in prior times with no problems.

It is also probable based on our past history with the DPRK that the arrest is based on some trumped up charge so they can have another political hostage.  "Spying" is probably anything under the sun in North Korea.  It's not like he's being charged with smuggling drugs or murder.

As for a travel advisory, so what?  The US has travel advisories on lots of countries that Americans visit for business.  BFD.  I used to do quite a bit of business travel, and if the state I was visiting decided to detain me, I sure as hell would like my govt to atleast take some bare minimum interest in my welfare.

It is one of the functions of our state department (and diplomatic services abroad) AND I DO pay taxes as a citizen, as this guy I assume is, so I'm not so sure why exactly you are peachy keen on abandoning a US citizen abroad.


The embassy can help you get a translator. They can sometimes get you some legal assistance. But if you break a foreign law, you're going to trial in that country, the same exact way that the US expects foreigners who commit crimes inside the border to do prison time here.  Just as other countries have no say in what US law is (hint: plenty of them think "consipiracy" charges are complete bullshiat but we still imprison various of their citizens for it) the US has no say in the other direction.

It could be trumped up charges this guy is facing, and probably there will be help in that regard. But if he did break some law, even if it's a law the US thinks is horrendous, well...  and if he IS a missionary of some sort, he probably is in real trouble.

Hell, even members of the MILITARY can find themselves serving sentences abroad, with the full knowledge and cooperation of the US government, if they broke the laws and the status of forces agreement. Far too many people learn that the hard way.

Personally I suspect that NK hopes that they'll get some negotiation out of this, I would not be surprised if some well-known but very much NOT state actor (so, maybe Rodman again?) ends up doing something "unofficially," but.
 
2013-05-02 10:10:29 PM  

ciberido: rosebud_the_sled: Anyone stupid enough to travel through NK thinking that it is without risk of some sort of random governmental action is a moron and deserves what they get.

This is essentially the Just-World Fallacy, and in this case it's because you are a coward, and fear makes you cling to the fantasy that bad things only happen to foolish people.  In reality, bad things happen to everybody, nobody's really safe, and your willingness to throw other people to the wolves to assuage your own fears makes you despicable.


Bad things happened to this guy because he was foolish. NK has a long, and easily researched history of this sort of thing.
 
2013-05-02 10:21:17 PM  
Let him rot.  If you are stupid enough to go to a place like North Korea you deserve everything that happens to you.  Seriously, some places you just should not visit.
 
2013-05-02 10:32:18 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: For the life of me, I don't understand why any American, South Korean, or Japanese person would enter NK controlled territory.  Their bullshiat and willingness to imprison or shoot non-North Koreans for no reason is very well documented.


My guess is this guy went there to spread the Gospel. Even if you admonished the risks that he took, you have to at  least respect his convictions and courage for doing what he really believed in. I'm sure he felt that the average North Korean has never heard of the bible and God's salvation and was doing his part to bring spread the good news even if it meant his life was at stake.
 
2013-05-02 10:35:57 PM  
Maybe after we fix...

This
This
And maybe most of all this

Then we can judge.
 
2013-05-02 10:37:45 PM  

banandar123: Maybe after we fix...

This
This
And maybe most of all this

Then we can judge.


And yeah, I'm ready for the flaming. BRING IT ON *activates outrage-shield*
 
2013-05-02 10:43:22 PM  

Warlordtrooper: I would consider this an act of War.  The US government should not be so willing to let an American citizen suffer at the hands of a foreign government.


If N.Korea were blatantly holding the man hostage, yes.  But since they claim he is a criminal and they have evidence that proves his crimes, it's a different situation.  The USA can't go invade every country that holds a US citizen in prison for breaking that country's laws.   And if the guy really was breaking North Korea's laws, even if they're stupid laws, we have to respect N.Korea's sovereignty.

That said, I feel your outrage, and the situation sucks.
 
2013-05-02 11:02:04 PM  

RexTalionis: Warlordtrooper: RexTalionis: Warlordtrooper: I would consider this an act of War.  The US government should not be so willing to let an American citizen suffer at the hands of a foreign government.

Why? He's an idiot who put himself in danger, against all common sense and the advice of the State Department. Why should we start a international incident over him?

Because He's a US citizen, THAT'S WHY.

So? He assumed the risk when he decided that he can saunter over into a country that is hostile to us with no consequences.


It's not just that you're heartless and selfish, it's that you're stupid as well.

The man had a visa.  That means that he has the permission of the government to be there, which in turn means that, as long as he obeys the law, he should be safe from incarceration.  Assuming he didn't actually break any laws, then the government broke the promise to keep him safe and out of jail -- that promise came with the visa, as it does with every visa every government issues.

Giving someone a visa and then arresting them on trumped-up charges is like inviting someone into your home, murdering them, and claiming it was self-defense.  And you trying to argue that he deserved what he got is like arguing that a rape victim "deserved" to get raped because she wore a short skirt.  In other words, patheticillogic used to justify completely reprehensible acts.

But, to be clear, this depends greatly on what laws, if any, he REALLY violated, and right now neither you nor I know that --- which also speaks badly for you.
 
2013-05-02 11:19:00 PM  

horsepocket: We certainly can pick and choose who has rights and protections. The person who leaves our country is no longer protected by our country. It is really, really simple.


Yes.   It's absolutely 100% WRONG, but your derp does have the virtue of being simple.
 
2013-05-02 11:20:29 PM  

jso2897: FraggleStickCar: Well, you seem like a delight.

People who speak think that their opinions are  the unvarnished truth are often not a blast at parties.


FTFY.
 
2013-05-02 11:26:06 PM  

ciberido: The man had a visa. That means that he has the permission of the government to be there, which in turn means that, as long as he obeys the law, he should be safe from incarceration. Assuming he didn't actually break any laws, then the government broke the promise to keep him safe and out of jail -- that promise came with the visa, as it does with every visa every government issues.


Did you not read that he's a missionary who likes to sneak away and feed orphans and proselytize? You don't think the North Koreans would dislike that?
 
2013-05-02 11:31:36 PM  

RexTalionis: ciberido: The man had a visa. That means that he has the permission of the government to be there, which in turn means that, as long as he obeys the law, he should be safe from incarceration. Assuming he didn't actually break any laws, then the government broke the promise to keep him safe and out of jail -- that promise came with the visa, as it does with every visa every government issues.

Did you not read that he's a missionary who likes to sneak away and feed orphans and proselytize? You don't think the North Koreans would dislike that?


Did you not read the part of my post where I said IF he actually broke one of the country's laws, and the charges are not trumped-up, then it's a different story?
 
2013-05-02 11:35:15 PM  

ciberido: RexTalionis: ciberido: The man had a visa. That means that he has the permission of the government to be there, which in turn means that, as long as he obeys the law, he should be safe from incarceration. Assuming he didn't actually break any laws, then the government broke the promise to keep him safe and out of jail -- that promise came with the visa, as it does with every visa every government issues.

Did you not read that he's a missionary who likes to sneak away and feed orphans and proselytize? You don't think the North Koreans would dislike that?

Did you not read the part of my post where I said IF he actually broke one of the country's laws, and the charges are not trumped-up, then it's a different story?


Great, but if he did break one of the country's laws and the charges are not trumped up, are you still calling me stupid, heartless and selfish?

Because you called me stupid, heartless and selfish without any such qualification.
 
2013-05-02 11:54:09 PM  

Mellotiger: You misunderstand me, apparently. I'm not saying people shouldn't have repercussions based upon, or otherwise be held responsible for, their actions. I believe everyone should claim full responsibility for all of their actions, period. but claiming responsibility doesn't mean one DESERVES the outcome, necessarily. I thought my analogy about car crashes illustrated this quite nicely, but I guess it was lost on you. Lets try another. Lets say two people were having a discussion on the internet, and one said "you shut up or you'll regret it" and then the other does not comply, thereby accepting the risk of the aforementioned "regret". Then the first guy, who made the threat, burns down the second guys house. Does the second guy deserve it?


Yes.  Particularly if that individual did not prepare for contingencies.  Life sucks, doesn't it.  There is no God, there is just us f**king each other over.

I understood the car crash example.  I realize that I take a risk in everything I do, regardless of how mundane.  I also realize that I accept those risks.  When bad things happen to me, I accept my hand in those events through whatever path I took.  I don't dwell on it.

Having backpacked through much of the third world, many bad things attempted to happen to me.  I dealt with them.  I accepted that I put myself in the place where those things could occur, but I also prepared myself so that I would have the greatest likelihood of achieving success.  I would have also accepted the fact that a negative outcome could have occurred.

Such is life.
 
2013-05-02 11:58:17 PM  

SuperNinjaToad: Satanic_Hamster: For the life of me, I don't understand why any American, South Korean, or Japanese person would enter NK controlled territory.  Their bullshiat and willingness to imprison or shoot non-North Koreans for no reason is very well documented.

My guess is this guy went there to spread the Gospel. Even if you admonished the risks that he took, you have to at  least respect his convictions and courage for doing what he really believed in. I'm sure he felt that the average North Korean has never heard of the bible and God's salvation and was doing his part to bring spread the good news even if it meant his life was at stake.


I wish all the proselytizers would follow him there.
 
2013-05-03 12:07:49 AM  

ciberido: the Just-World Fallacy, and in this case it's because you are a coward, and fear makes you cling to the fantasy that bad things only happen to foolish people. In reality, bad things happen to everybody, nobody's really safe, and your willingness to throw other people to the wolves to assuage your own fears makes you despicable.


Bad things occur.  So?  We all f**king die.  So?  I was dead before I was alive, I will be dead after I'm alive.  I didn't care then, I won't care in the future.  Is there any fairness?  No.  Fairness is our own illusion devised to go along with our desire for order in the cosmos.  No fairness.  No badness.  No goodness on a cosmic scale, only what is.  All of those "reality" concepts are your own relativistic perceptions creating pointless order.

Will bad things happen to me in the future.  Absolutely.  Should I be surprised that they will?  Nope.  Will I take responsibility for my existence?  Yes.  Lord, I hate whiners.

This guy made the same decision that people who think it's a good idea to smuggle drugs into some ountries where there are signs up saying "Death to drug smugglers!."  They get caught.  They get shot.  It is their choice to have the bullet travel through their brain by their actions.  It was his choice to go to NK.  His alone.  If he did not know the potential consequences, he is an ignorant f**k and deserves it.  If he did know the potential consequences, then he is not an ignorant f**k and deserves it.  Either way, the bottom line is the same.  You willing take chances, you should accept the result, regardless of what that result is.
 
2013-05-03 12:11:30 AM  

rosebud_the_sled: Mellotiger: You misunderstand me, apparently. I'm not saying people shouldn't have repercussions based upon, or otherwise be held responsible for, their actions. I believe everyone should claim full responsibility for all of their actions, period. but claiming responsibility doesn't mean one DESERVES the outcome, necessarily. I thought my analogy about car crashes illustrated this quite nicely, but I guess it was lost on you. Lets try another. Lets say two people were having a discussion on the internet, and one said "you shut up or you'll regret it" and then the other does not comply, thereby accepting the risk of the aforementioned "regret". Then the first guy, who made the threat, burns down the second guys house. Does the second guy deserve it?

Yes.  Particularly if that individual did not prepare for contingencies.  Life sucks, doesn't it.  There is no God, there is just us f**king each other over.

I understood the car crash example.  I realize that I take a risk in everything I do, regardless of how mundane.  I also realize that I accept those risks.  When bad things happen to me, I accept my hand in those events through whatever path I took.  I don't dwell on it.

Having backpacked through much of the third world, many bad things attempted to happen to me.  I dealt with them.  I accepted that I put myself in the place where those things could occur, but I also prepared myself so that I would have the greatest likelihood of achieving success.  I would have also accepted the fact that a negative outcome could have occurred.

Such is life.


Well at least your committed to being a prick and its not just passive. The next time someone you care about gets hurt or killed, remember: they deserved it. Carry on.
 
2013-05-03 12:56:17 AM  

Evil High Priest: SuperNinjaToad: Satanic_Hamster: For the life of me, I don't understand why any American, South Korean, or Japanese person would enter NK controlled territory.  Their bullshiat and willingness to imprison or shoot non-North Koreans for no reason is very well documented.

My guess is this guy went there to spread the Gospel. Even if you admonished the risks that he took, you have to at  least respect his convictions and courage for doing what he really believed in. I'm sure he felt that the average North Korean has never heard of the bible and God's salvation and was doing his part to bring spread the good news even if it meant his life was at stake.

I wish all the proselytizers would follow him there.


Your handle is most appopriate then, heathen.
 
2013-05-03 01:15:53 AM  

Mellotiger: bugmn99: Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Don't do the time if they can't prove the crime.


Don't dis the sign if you can't pay the fine.

Ha, catch me if you can

midnight rider
 
2013-05-03 09:00:33 AM  

dywed88: the US will face screams about violating another country's sovereignty either way


Maybe, just maybe, this is because the only "sovereignty" we ever recognize is our own.
 
2013-05-03 11:26:04 AM  

banandar123: Maybe after we fix...

This
This
And maybe most of all

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-strikes_law

I was in an anger management class (for dubious reasons), and there was a guy there who had been arrested for hitting his girlfriend, and got two DUIs while on, uh, probation you'd call it.  This is in CA.

He only had to wear an ankle-thing, and to live in a rehab house with a bunch of bulemic teen girls.

Seems to me he was a prime three-strikes-you're-in-jail candidate, the type the law was designed to get.  (Not stealing-a-candybar third offense.)  But no, rich whitey, somehow avoids it after three serious crimes.
 
2013-05-03 11:40:29 AM  
see i told you, nobody is hungry in North Korea
 
2013-05-03 12:42:20 PM  

RexTalionis: ciberido: RexTalionis: ciberido: The man had a visa. That means that he has the permission of the government to be there, which in turn means that, as long as he obeys the law, he should be safe from incarceration. Assuming he didn't actually break any laws, then the government broke the promise to keep him safe and out of jail -- that promise came with the visa, as it does with every visa every government issues.

Did you not read that he's a missionary who likes to sneak away and feed orphans and proselytize? You don't think the North Koreans would dislike that?

Did you not read the part of my post where I said IF he actually broke one of the country's laws, and the charges are not trumped-up, then it's a different story?

Great, but if he did break one of the country's laws and the charges are not trumped up, are you still calling me stupid, heartless and selfish?

Because you called me stupid, heartless and selfish without any such qualification.


I'm still calling you heartless if your attitude is "he broke the law, let him rot," yes. Even if you are correct about every factual assertion and assumption, your attitude in this posts paints you as the sort of person who doesn't care about other human beings, and that makes me lose respect for you.
 
2013-05-03 01:05:02 PM  

ciberido: and that makes me lose respect for you.


Yeah, I don't care about that.
 
2013-05-03 03:02:04 PM  

RexTalionis: ciberido: and that makes me lose respect for you.

Yeah, I don't care about that.


He walked right into that one.
 
2013-05-03 03:38:38 PM  

rosebud_the_sled: Having backpacked through much of the third world, many bad things attempted to happen to me. I dealt with them.


I'm tagging you as "lying ITG".

Thanks for the laugh.
 
2013-05-03 04:07:20 PM  

RexTalionis: Great, but if he did break one of the country's laws and the charges are not trumped up, are you still calling me stupid, heartless and selfish?


This is North Korea. I can goddamn guarantee you the charges are trumped up. 'Hostile acts' in North Korea-speak basically means 'existing while American and we'll tell you what you're going to admit to doing later, once we've interrogated you for a couple weeks. Court comes only after we've gotten your admission and then because you admitted to it in writing, we're going to throw the book at you'.
 
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