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(Some Guy)   America already has a single-payer system. We're just too stupid to use it   (blog.cardiosource.org) divider line 188
    More: Interesting, opportunity costs, GAAP, hospital system, Cigna, Aetna  
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7435 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 May 2013 at 12:14 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-02 11:09:49 AM
No shiat.

Actually we have three. Medicaid, medicare, and the VA.  All work better than the clusterfluck that is the private insurance based system.
 
2013-05-02 11:22:19 AM

EvilEgg: No shiat.

Actually we have three. Medicaid, medicare, and the VA.  All work better than the clusterfluck that is the private insurance based system.


They would work better still if private insurance for basic care was killed.
 
2013-05-02 11:32:04 AM
I am a Republican. For those who know me that is not a surprise. I live in a red state. I have never voted for a Democratic presidential candidate. I can field strip, clean and reassemble a Remington 12-gauge pump blindfolded.

I wasn't aware that was a requirement to be a Republican.

I'm not surprised, I just didn't know.
 
2013-05-02 11:32:33 AM

EvilEgg: No shiat.

Actually we have three. Medicaid, medicare, and the VA.  All work better than the clusterfluck that is the private insurance based system.


Then that would be four healthcare systems.
 
2013-05-02 11:33:32 AM

Lionel Mandrake: I am a Republican. For those who know me that is not a surprise. I live in a red state. I have never voted for a Democratic presidential candidate. I can field strip, clean and reassemble a Remington 12-gauge pump blindfolded.

I wasn't aware that was a requirement to be a Republican.

I'm not surprised, I just didn't know.


I can do the same to a 10/22

does this mean I have to start saying Fartbama like unironically now
 
2013-05-02 11:40:16 AM
Medicare-for-all (ie: Canadian single-payer) is a conservative idea because it minimizes administrative overhead, and focuses limited resources on patient care.  That whole spend less, get more part of the ideology.
 
2013-05-02 11:43:01 AM

unyon: Medicare-for-all (ie: Canadian single-payer) is a conservative idea because it minimizes administrative overhead, and focuses limited resources on patient care.  That whole spend less, get more part of the ideology.


This.  Your current system maximizes Government regulation and interference.  Single payer relegates Government to a purely actuarial role which allow patients to deal directly with health care providers without outside interference (private insurance companies or otherwise).
 
2013-05-02 12:00:38 PM
Prison?
 
2013-05-02 12:08:52 PM
Of course this was the way to go originally.  Sadly given the coffers of insurance industry groups and the derpa-derpa-doo socialism is the debil pant-shiatting of the general public, there is probably no way in hell that this will happen.
 
2013-05-02 12:17:22 PM
No, we're not too stupid to use it. For-profit health insurances companies are too greedy to let us use it.
 
2013-05-02 12:17:36 PM
It is kind of telling that Obamacare is modeled after what the GOP was asking for and now they are asking for what the democrats originally wanted.  It is my belief that the GOP knows that it's only purpose is to cater to the very, very rich and to do so they need multiple wedge issues to sway voters.  They don't want abortion ever resolved, or healthcare, or taxes, or anything.  This is why they work to harm the system, it perpetuates their ability to dupe the populous
 
2013-05-02 12:18:06 PM

unyon: EvilEgg: No shiat.

Actually we have three. Medicaid, medicare, and the VA.  All work better than the clusterfluck that is the private insurance based system.

Then that would be four healthcare systems.


But only three of them are single-payer.
OK, four if you add vernonFL's prison.
 
2013-05-02 12:18:21 PM

Lionel Mandrake: I am a Republican. For those who know me that is not a surprise. I live in a red state. I have never voted for a Democratic presidential candidate. I can field strip, clean and reassemble a Remington 12-gauge pump blindfolded.

I wasn't aware that was a requirement to be a Republican.

I'm not surprised, I just didn't know.


It gets you Republican street cred the same way that donating to NPR gives you Democratic street cred.
 
2013-05-02 12:18:29 PM

unyon: Medicare-for-all (ie: Canadian single-payer) is a conservative idea because it minimizes administrative overhead, and focuses limited resources on patient care.  That whole spend less, get more part of the ideology.


I have serious doubts that the current crop of American politicians are on board with "spend less".
 
2013-05-02 12:18:56 PM

Lionel Mandrake: I am a Republican. For those who know me that is not a surprise. I live in a red state. I have never voted for a Democratic presidential candidate. I can field strip, clean and reassemble a Remington 12-gauge pump blindfolded.


So he voted for a non-Presidential Democratic candidate?

Get the rope.
 
2013-05-02 12:19:00 PM
So working with guns blindfolded is how you measure your Republicaness? Neat, guys.
 
2013-05-02 12:19:18 PM

mrshowrules: unyon: Medicare-for-all (ie: Canadian single-payer) is a conservative idea because it minimizes administrative overhead, and focuses limited resources on patient care.  That whole spend less, get more part of the ideology.

This.  Your current system maximizes Government regulation and interference.  Single payer relegates Government to a purely actuarial role which allow patients to deal directly with health care providers without outside interference (private insurance companies or otherwise).


Spending more for an inferior product is just being fiscally responsible. At least, that's what I've learned from watching politicians who tout their fiscal responsibility.
 
2013-05-02 12:21:32 PM

odinsposse: mrshowrules: unyon: Medicare-for-all (ie: Canadian single-payer) is a conservative idea because it minimizes administrative overhead, and focuses limited resources on patient care.  That whole spend less, get more part of the ideology.

This.  Your current system maximizes Government regulation and interference.  Single payer relegates Government to a purely actuarial role which allow patients to deal directly with health care providers without outside interference (private insurance companies or otherwise).

Spending more for an inferior product is just being fiscally responsible. At least, that's what I've learned from watching politicians who tout their fiscal responsibility.


Fiscally responsible politicians also order the government to spend money on goods that the people who would receive and use those goods say they do not want and would not use.
 
Bf+
2013-05-02 12:22:23 PM
FTFA: "I am a Republican..."

Fark you.
 
2013-05-02 12:23:22 PM

unyon: Medicare-for-all (ie: Canadian single-payer) is a conservative idea because it minimizes administrative overhead, and focuses limited resources on patient care.  That whole spend less, get more part of the ideology.


Yes but it would require taxes to go up and we all know that's bad. Not to mention it would impede private profits, both of which are republican,priorities.
 
2013-05-02 12:23:50 PM
FTFA: I would submit to you, however, that it is un-American to allow many of our citizens to be uninsured

Uh-oh, this guy just acknowledged the idea of helping others.  He's about to get excommunicated from the party for the cardinal sin of altruism.
 
2013-05-02 12:23:55 PM
What exactly do people opposed to single-payer believe private insurance can do (with smaller customer pools) that Medicare can't?
 
2013-05-02 12:23:59 PM
Lastly, I think that the physicians should be in charge of health care and not the insurance companies and hospital systems. With a single price structure, it becomes all about medical decision making, efficiency, the provision of care to our patients, and shared decision making, all of which we do well.

My sister is a physician assistant.  She has "numbers" she is supposed to make every month just like any other person in sales.  More billings, bigger bonus.

To think that all health care providers are benevolent healers is foolish.
 
2013-05-02 12:24:34 PM
GOP could win the political victory with this.  Start telling America that Obamacare sucks and we need to go to a single payer system then start pushing for an expansion of Medicare.  The Dems wouldn't know how to react.  They'd either have to admit Obamacare sucks and join with the GOP or take the losing side of the debate.  The Republicans would get the credit for a popular government service and it would revitalize the party while destroying the dems.
 
2013-05-02 12:28:28 PM

Muta: GOP could win the political victory with this.  Start telling America that Obamacare sucks and we need to go to a single payer system then start pushing for an expansion of Medicare.  The Dems wouldn't know how to react.  They'd either have to admit Obamacare sucks and join with the GOP or take the losing side of the debate.  The Republicans would get the credit for a popular government service and it would revitalize the party while destroying the dems.


Good luck making it out of the Primary.
 
2013-05-02 12:28:32 PM

Muta: GOP could win the political victory with this.  Start telling America that Obamacare sucks and we need to go to a single payer system then start pushing for an expansion of Medicare.  The Dems wouldn't know how to react.  They'd either have to admit Obamacare sucks and join with the GOP or take the losing side of the debate.  The Republicans would get the credit for a popular government service and it would revitalize the party while destroying the dems.


Yes, they would. They'd point out that they've been sponsoring a bill to create Medicare for All for at least a decade now and what the flying fark took the Republicans so long to get on board?
 
2013-05-02 12:29:36 PM

Serious Black: No, we're not too stupid to use it. For-profit health insurances companies are too greedy to let us use it.


This!  Well said.
 
2013-05-02 12:30:15 PM

Lionel Mandrake: I am a Republican. For those who know me that is not a surprise. I live in a red state. I have never voted for a Democratic presidential candidate. I can field strip, clean and reassemble a Remington 12-gauge pump blindfolded.

I wasn't aware that was a requirement to be a Republican.

I'm not surprised, I just didn't know.


I can do it without the blindfold.

Do I still have to hand in my librul card for a fark independant (tm) ?
 
2013-05-02 12:30:27 PM

tricycleracer: Lastly, I think that the physicians should be in charge of health care and not the insurance companies and hospital systems. With a single price structure, it becomes all about medical decision making, efficiency, the provision of care to our patients, and shared decision making, all of which we do well.

My sister is a physician assistant.  She has "numbers" she is supposed to make every month just like any other person in sales.  More billings, bigger bonus.

To think that all health care providers are benevolent healers is foolish.



That's not insurance.  That's a shiatty organization she's working for.
 
2013-05-02 12:30:27 PM

Muta: GOP could win the political victory with this.  Start telling America that Obamacare sucks and we need to go to a single payer system then start pushing for an expansion of Medicare.  The Dems wouldn't know how to react.  They'd either have to admit Obamacare sucks and join with the GOP or take the losing side of the debate.  The Republicans would get the credit for a popular government service and it would revitalize the party while destroying the dems.


You're right, however, the chances of the GOP taking the dicks of the health insurance industry out of their mouths long enough to think this through are nil.
 
2013-05-02 12:30:45 PM
How, you might say, could a Republican come to such a position? The simple answer is I really think it is quite Republican.  Oh, I know there will be many raised eyebrows and many critics. I accept that.  I understand the fact that no single payer system is perfect, that it is "socialist," that it is "un-American."

I would submit to you, however, that it is un-American to allow many of our citizens to be uninsured, that it is un-American to shunt money away from a strong military in order to support a bloated, inefficient and fraud-laden health care system, that it is un-American not to be open and above board with the cost of what we do, the expense of that service and the profit that we make. Mostly, it is un-American to let this outrageous health care injustice continue.

Bolded the part that will probably get him shot at.  Or at least classed as a RINO.
 
2013-05-02 12:30:48 PM

Serious Black: They'd point out that they've been sponsoring a bill to create Medicare for All for at least a decade now...


citation_needed.jpg
 
2013-05-02 12:31:22 PM
I am a Republican. For those who know me that is not a surprise. I live in a red state. I have never voted for a Democratic presidential candidate. I can field strip, clean and reassemble a Remington 12-gauge pump blindfolded.

I always find it hilarious when Conservatives think they are the only ones who know how to use a gun.

As far as UHC is concerned, well, I guess every Conservative clock is right twice a day.
 
2013-05-02 12:31:47 PM

GoldSpider: Serious Black: They'd point out that they've been sponsoring a bill to create Medicare for All for at least a decade now...

citation_needed.jpg


http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:H.R.676:
 
2013-05-02 12:31:57 PM

unyon: EvilEgg: No shiat.

Actually we have three. Medicaid, medicare, and the VA.  All work better than the clusterfluck that is the private insurance based system.

Then that would be four healthcare systems.


Five, actually.

"Go to an ER and be serviced and not pay the bill and let the hospital overcharge people that do pay" is the fifth healthcare system that we currently employ.
 
2013-05-02 12:32:38 PM

Muta: GOP could win the political victory with this.  Start telling America that Obamacare sucks and we need to go to a single payer system then start pushing for an expansion of Medicare.  The Dems wouldn't know how to react.  They'd either have to admit Obamacare sucks and join with the GOP or take the losing side of the debate.  The Republicans would get the credit for a popular government service and it would revitalize the party while destroying the dems.


Eh, call me partisan if you must, but I could easily see the Democrats falling in line with a single-payer initiative (without saying that Obamacare sucks, of course; I'd imagine they'd paint Obamacare as the first step on the road to single payer -- after the fact, of course).  The Democrats don't seem to be full of pointless contrarians like the Republicans are; they're not going to line up against something just because the Republicans are for it.
 
2013-05-02 12:32:39 PM

Muta: GOP could win the political victory with this.  Start telling America that Obamacare sucks and we need to go to a single payer system then start pushing for an expansion of Medicare.  The Dems wouldn't know how to react.  They'd either have to admit Obamacare sucks and join with the GOP or take the losing side of the debate.  The Republicans would get the credit for a popular government service and it would revitalize the party while destroying the dems.


Yeah, it could even be made to fit their wider narrative. They try real hard to pitch themselves as defenders of Medicare. Expanding it is just an outgrowth of that.

It would also be deeply hilarious.

I doubt they've got the initiative to try it though.
 
2013-05-02 12:33:02 PM

BafflerMeal: tricycleracer: Lastly, I think that the physicians should be in charge of health care and not the insurance companies and hospital systems. With a single price structure, it becomes all about medical decision making, efficiency, the provision of care to our patients, and shared decision making, all of which we do well.

My sister is a physician assistant.  She has "numbers" she is supposed to make every month just like any other person in sales.  More billings, bigger bonus.

To think that all health care providers are benevolent healers is foolish.


That's not insurance.  That's a shiatty organization she's working for.


It's a private orthopedics practice and like 80% of their billings are through Medicare.  They book everything they can so Doc can buy another Porsche.  The author's statement that a single-payer systems makes health care all about healing is wrong.
 
2013-05-02 12:33:22 PM
RINO!  Let's get 'im!
 
2013-05-02 12:33:33 PM

unyon: Medicare-for-all (ie: Canadian single-payer) is a conservative idea because it minimizes administrative overhead, and focuses limited resources on patient care.  That whole spend less, get more part of the ideology.


But it doesn't make a small minority of the population extremely rich.  It's basically at odds with their trickle-up theory of economics.  Yes, they love to espouse the idea of efficiency, but the efficiency they are talking about is the flow of money from the vast majority of the population to the few at the top.
 
2013-05-02 12:33:35 PM

Lando Lincoln: unyon: EvilEgg: No shiat.

Actually we have three. Medicaid, medicare, and the VA.  All work better than the clusterfluck that is the private insurance based system.

Then that would be four healthcare systems.

Five, actually.

"Go to an ER and be serviced and not pay the bill and let the hospital overcharge people that do pay" is the fifth healthcare system that we currently employ.


The sixth is work for a large company that self-insures and farms the administration to, you guessed it, a private insurance company.
 
2013-05-02 12:34:08 PM

GoldSpider: What exactly do people opposed to single-payer believe private insurance can do (with smaller customer pools) that Medicare can't?


Make a profit.
 
2013-05-02 12:34:18 PM

Satan's Bunny Slippers: that it is un-American to shunt money away from a strong military in order to support a bloated, inefficient and fraud-laden health care system


Only a Republican would argue we need to reduce health care costs so that we can direct the savings to more military spending.
 
2013-05-02 12:34:51 PM
tricycleracer:
Lastly, I think that the physicians should be in charge of health care and not the insurance companies and hospital systems. With a single price structure, it becomes all about medical decision making, efficiency, the provision of care to our patients, and shared decision making, all of which we do well.

My sister is a physician assistant.  She has "numbers" she is supposed to make every month just like any other person in sales.  More billings, bigger bonus.

To think that all health care providers are benevolent healers is foolish.


How the heck does a physician assistant work to sales targets?  It's not like people just decide to have blood work done on a whim.  Either the physician she works for is performing unnecessary procedures to increase income (i.e. insurance fraud) or they are not.
 
2013-05-02 12:34:53 PM

tricycleracer: BafflerMeal: tricycleracer: Lastly, I think that the physicians should be in charge of health care and not the insurance companies and hospital systems. With a single price structure, it becomes all about medical decision making, efficiency, the provision of care to our patients, and shared decision making, all of which we do well.

My sister is a physician assistant.  She has "numbers" she is supposed to make every month just like any other person in sales.  More billings, bigger bonus.

To think that all health care providers are benevolent healers is foolish.


That's not insurance.  That's a shiatty organization she's working for.

It's a private orthopedics practice and like 80% of their billings are through Medicare.  They book everything they can so Doc can buy another Porsche.  The author's statement that a single-payer systems makes health care all about healing is wrong.



I see and concur with your final statement.
 
2013-05-02 12:35:36 PM
Man, that Republicans sounds like a dirty libby lib anti-American traitor Muslim terrorist.
 
2013-05-02 12:37:09 PM

Serious Black: GoldSpider: Serious Black: They'd point out that they've been sponsoring a bill to create Medicare for All for at least a decade now...

citation_needed.jpg

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:H.R.676:


Must be blocked where I work.  I'll try from home.
 
2013-05-02 12:37:43 PM

No Such Agency: How the heck does a physician assistant work to sales targets?


"You came in for X and you're Y years old.  Current medical knowledge suggests that you're in a high-risk group for A, B, and C.  Better run some tests just to be sure."  shiat like that.

It's not fraudulent, but if you were actually paying out of pocket, you'd probably pass on some of these things.
 
2013-05-02 12:38:13 PM

GoldSpider: Satan's Bunny Slippers: that it is un-American to shunt money away from a strong military in order to support a bloated, inefficient and fraud-laden health care system

Only a Republican would argue we need to reduce health care costs so that we can direct the savings to more military spending.


oh I agree.

/right leaning central libbie recovering Republican
 
2013-05-02 12:39:02 PM
Fine, we Dems agree with the Republicans, lets draft up a bill, call it Medicare 2.0, every American is enrolled, those that wish to opt out and get private insurance may do so, every doctor/hospital must accepted Medicare 2.0 and the cost for this to Americans is minimum, something like 1-2% tax increase on payroll taxes.

For those that are unemployed or poverty levels, they don't pay I guess, increase taxes slightly on people making over $500,000 a year.

That acceptable?
 
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