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(Ars Technica)   Step 2 does not involve hiding bitcoin mining software into a video game   (arstechnica.com) divider line 70
    More: Asinine, GPUs, BTC, sports leagues, miners, hiding  
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4704 clicks; posted to Geek » on 02 May 2013 at 10:10 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-02 10:20:24 AM  
It was supposed to only take the roundoff error
 
2013-05-02 10:23:13 AM  
Time to put of a kickstarter to start a bitcoin mining collective. Why donate CPU cycles to charity (SETI, Folding@Home) when you can use them to mint virtual coins?
 
2013-05-02 10:27:45 AM  

nmemkha: Time to put of a kickstarter to start a bitcoin mining collective. Why donate CPU cycles to charity (SETI, Folding@Home) when you can use them to mint virtual coins?


That's basically what these guys did, and they made all of $3600 doing it
 
2013-05-02 10:28:36 AM  

nmemkha: Time to put of a kickstarter to start a bitcoin mining collective. Why donate CPU cycles to charity (SETI, Folding@Home) when you can use them to mint virtual coins?


I don't even know what a Bitcoin is or how to make a billion dollars' worth of them, but I'm in.

Free money for CPU/GPU cycles? I only use it for a few hours a day, and if it'll pay for the liquid cooling I'll need to keep it churning 24/7, I'll even get my netbook back up and running.
 
2013-05-02 10:29:51 AM  
Can't you do that yourself just by downloading the standard Bitcoin client?
 
2013-05-02 10:31:28 AM  
Sounds like he's trying the "Was that wrong? Should I not have done that?" defense strategy.

He basically admitted to spreading a virus and theft of resources - I find it hard to believe he doesnt deserve jail time.
 
2013-05-02 10:33:07 AM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: nmemkha: Time to put of a kickstarter to start a bitcoin mining collective. Why donate CPU cycles to charity (SETI, Folding@Home) when you can use them to mint virtual coins?

That's basically what these guys did, and they made all of $3600 doing it


Yes but the money would be for me us! [attorney edit]
 
2013-05-02 10:35:19 AM  
There's gold in them there CPUs!
 
2013-05-02 10:38:46 AM  
It's only "people" by dictionary definition that were robbed here. Since they didn't incorporate, it's not like real people got hurt here, so no law enforcement need get involved.

Most of these guys probably had older rigs not tuned for mining. So they probably spent more in power consumption than the few cents they contributed. This would not have been viable as opt-in.
 
2013-05-02 10:40:26 AM  
"Luckily I have family in the software forensics industry."

This is the most internet tough guy thing I have ever heard.
 
2013-05-02 10:43:22 AM  
You have to "mint" digital money? I don't get it.
 
2013-05-02 10:43:43 AM  

ex0du5: It's only "people" by dictionary definition that were robbed here. Since they didn't incorporate, it's not like real people got hurt here, so no law enforcement need get involved.


What does that mean?  The "people" who got robbed were actual people who bought a game.  Try taking "just a quarter" from the register of the next couple stores you shop at.  When someone calls the cops explain that you only took a quarter, so no big deal.

Running a GPU for 2-3 hours probably uses 25 cents worth of electricity in most places (way more in certain locations).  I'd be incredibly pissed if someone was stealing money from me every single day using my electric bill to make themselves rich.
 
2013-05-02 10:46:08 AM  

Dr Dreidel: nmemkha: Time to put of a kickstarter to start a bitcoin mining collective. Why donate CPU cycles to charity (SETI, Folding@Home) when you can use them to mint virtual coins?

I don't even know what a Bitcoin is or how to make a billion dollars' worth of them, but I'm in.

Free money for CPU/GPU cycles? I only use it for a few hours a day, and if it'll pay for the liquid cooling I'll need to keep it churning 24/7, I'll even get my netbook back up and running.


Do you pay for your electricity?  That kind of offsets the 'free' part quite a bit at this stage of the mining time required.
 
2013-05-02 10:55:01 AM  

BumpInTheNight: Dr Dreidel: nmemkha: Time to put of a kickstarter to start a bitcoin mining collective. Why donate CPU cycles to charity (SETI, Folding@Home) when you can use them to mint virtual coins?

I don't even know what a Bitcoin is or how to make a billion dollars' worth of them, but I'm in.

Free money for CPU/GPU cycles? I only use it for a few hours a day, and if it'll pay for the liquid cooling I'll need to keep it churning 24/7, I'll even get my netbook back up and running.

Do you pay for your electricity?  That kind of offsets the 'free' part quite a bit at this stage of the mining time required.


Yeah, but your mother buys the bacon electricity.

// I don't need it to be free, I just need to get some value of bitcoins that I can sell when they appreciate in value
// and if they aren't this hour, let's wait a few
 
2013-05-02 10:57:03 AM  

Cheron: It was supposed to only take the roundoff error


Sounds like while coding someone messed up on a mundane detail.
 
2013-05-02 10:58:01 AM  

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: nmemkha: Time to put of a kickstarter to start a bitcoin mining collective. Why donate CPU cycles to charity (SETI, Folding@Home) when you can use them to mint virtual coins?

That's basically what these guys did, and they made all of $3600 doing it


Nice to see what's essentially a bitcoin mining botnet really be worth the hassle, yup.
 
2013-05-02 11:04:44 AM  
On the one hand, Bitcoins are a patently stupid idea advanced by stupid people and participated in seriously only by idiots, so I want to have no interest in them.

On the other hand, since when has something being despicably stupid ever stopped the developed world from making it an unjustified hit? I'd hate to find out in a year or two that I'm missing out on a huge opportunity to take (real) money away from imbeciles.
 
2013-05-02 11:14:23 AM  
Wow...that is shady. Also probably illegal. Not even hidden in the EULA.

/I had hoped it was EA that did this
 
2013-05-02 11:18:40 AM  

Dr Dreidel: // I don't need it to be free, I just need to get some value of bitcoins that I can sell when they appreciate in value


Even if you're sure bitcoins will go up in value, buying them on an exchange costs less than buying the electricity to run your rig to mine them.
 
2013-05-02 11:22:03 AM  

jfarkinB: Dr Dreidel: // I don't need it to be free, I just need to get some value of bitcoins that I can sell when they appreciate in value

Even if you're sure bitcoins will go up in value, buying them on an exchange costs less than buying the electricity to run your rig to mine them.


Dr Dreidel: I don't even know what a Bitcoin is or how to make a billion dollars' worth of them


I WAS RIGHT ON THE INTERNET! I WIN A PRIZE!

// the prize is no money
// back to the grind...
 
2013-05-02 11:31:56 AM  

Fizpez: Running a GPU for 2-3 hours probably uses 25 cents worth of electricity in most places (way more in certain locations).  I'd be incredibly pissed if someone was stealing money from me every single day using my electric bill to make themselves rich.


I would be less concerned about the electric use, and more concerned about the wear and tear on my GPU. Most people probably aren't set up to run their processors at 90-100% capacity for days at a time. If nothing else, the fans will run constantly and you'll need to be very conscientious about dusting them regularly and ambient temperatures.  There's a world of difference between a clean machine in a server room with 70 degree filtered air and an end-user desktop that hasn't been dusted in a year or two in 80 degree heat and high humidity.

Computers that run very hot can have significantly reduced lifespans.  TFA says that this experiment lead to system crashes and other instability- I'd be willing to bet that's due to overheating in at least a few cases.
 
2013-05-02 11:32:46 AM  

Geotpf: Can't you do that yourself just by downloading the standard Bitcoin client?


Yes, but normally A) *YOU* get the bitcoins when you do that, and B) You know what you're doing.

Bitcoin clients can actually *damage* GPU's (and a few peoples may have been becuase of this), and they were *not* being given the bitcoins: Those were being funneled back to the patch distributors.
 
2013-05-02 11:45:03 AM  
Look if I wanted my GPUs to spin up unnecessarily and burn themselves out I'd sit at the login screen for starcraft 2.

/or minecraft, fark that game needs a vsync setting something fierce.
//luckily nvidia lets you force it on both
 
2013-05-02 12:05:56 PM  

Fubini: I would be less concerned about the electric use, and more concerned about the wear and tear on my GPU. Most people probably aren't set up to run their processors at 90-100% capacity for days at a time. If nothing else, the fans will run constantly and you'll need to be very conscientious about dusting them regularly and ambient temperatures. There's a world of difference between a clean machine in a server room with 70 degree filtered air and an end-user desktop that hasn't been dusted in a year or two in 80 degree heat and high humidity.

Computers that run very hot can have significantly reduced lifespans. TFA says that this experiment lead to system crashes and other instability- I'd be willing to bet that's due to overheating in at least a few cases.


That's why you add a lot of fans to your box, man.

Got a 220 mm fan and seven 120 mm fans.
 
2013-05-02 12:12:46 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Got a 220 mm fan and seven 120 mm fans.


I've got 2 200mm radiators sandwiched between 3 200mm fans.  Come at me, bro.
 
2013-05-02 12:17:52 PM  
I suspect that this completely addictive browser-based roguelike game is a bitcoin miner, but I still got sucked in for days...

http://candies.aniwey.net
 
2013-05-02 12:27:12 PM  
Good christ.  Way to ruin users' hardware to make pennies in revenue.  This is the equivalent of a crack head doing $1000 in damage to your car to steal your stereo and sell it for $50.

Also, stupid.  Whatever "brand" these guys had was probably worth more than $3600.  Now it's shiat.
 
2013-05-02 12:43:58 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Look if I wanted my GPUs to spin up unnecessarily and burn themselves out I'd sit at the login screen for starcraft 2.

/or minecraft, fark that game needs a vsync setting something fierce.
//luckily nvidia lets you force it on both


THANK YOU

As someone who has experience servicing Mac and PC hardware, this whole concept of running miners entirely off the GPU just seems like idiocy to me. The "genius" who came up with that idea must not deal a lot with lower end and/or older hardware in the average environment a PC is likely to be running in.
 
2013-05-02 12:48:00 PM  

Fizpez: ex0du5: It's only "people" by dictionary definition that were robbed here. Since they didn't incorporate, it's not like real people got hurt here, so no law enforcement need get involved.

What does that mean?  The "people" who got robbed were actual people who bought a game.  Try taking "just a quarter" from the register of the next couple stores you shop at.  When someone calls the cops explain that you only took a quarter, so no big deal.

Running a GPU for 2-3 hours probably uses 25 cents worth of electricity in most places (way more in certain locations).  I'd be incredibly pissed if someone was stealing money from me every single day using my electric bill to make themselves rich.


He got lost on the way to the politics tab.
 
2013-05-02 01:09:06 PM  

Crotchrocket Slim: The "genius" who came up with that idea must not deal a lot with lower end and/or older hardware in the average environment a PC is likely to be running in.


Or, they weren't targeting that kind of hardware and recognized that GPUs are much better for certain classes of mathematical problems- and the BitCoin algorithm is one of them.
 
2013-05-02 01:12:23 PM  

Honest Bender: I've got 2 200mm radiators sandwiched between 3 200mm fans. Come at me, bro.


www.ixbt.com
 
2013-05-02 01:17:30 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Honest Bender: I've got 2 200mm radiators sandwiched between 3 200mm fans. Come at me, bro.

[www.ixbt.com image 500x557]


Side panel off, 3000btu air conditioner aimed into the cavity.  Set, match.

/not really :P  but I'm constantly tempted
//Had one of those zalmans on my AMD x2 6000 about 5 years ago, decent but nothing compared to the Noctua D14 I'm using now with a 2600K
 
2013-05-02 01:18:57 PM  
Zalmans are, at the very least, very pretty.  And really, what else matters?
 
2013-05-02 01:30:24 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Zalmans are, at the very least, very pretty.  And really, what else matters?


You've got cable ties and neon lights in your case, don't you :P  Mine is just a rat's nest of 6 & 8 pin power cabling going to the video cards and it takes a little bit of ingenuity to close the panel even though its one of those NZXT Phantom beast cases.
 
2013-05-02 01:34:53 PM  

BumpInTheNight: You've got cable ties and neon lights in your case, don't you :P Mine is just a rat's nest of 6 & 8 pin power cabling going to the video cards and it takes a little bit of ingenuity to close the panel even though its one of those NZXT Phantom beast cases.


No.  Gave up on that shiat years ago.  :0

However, what I do put in I try to get flashy if possible.  Colorful power supply, ultra bright LED low/zero noise fans, a biatching looking zalman, etc.
 
2013-05-02 01:41:31 PM  

Fubini: Fizpez: Running a GPU for 2-3 hours probably uses 25 cents worth of electricity in most places (way more in certain locations).  I'd be incredibly pissed if someone was stealing money from me every single day using my electric bill to make themselves rich.

I would be less concerned about the electric use, and more concerned about the wear and tear on my GPU. Most people probably aren't set up to run their processors at 90-100% capacity for days at a time. If nothing else, the fans will run constantly and you'll need to be very conscientious about dusting them regularly and ambient temperatures.  There's a world of difference between a clean machine in a server room with 70 degree filtered air and an end-user desktop that hasn't been dusted in a year or two in 80 degree heat and high humidity.

Computers that run very hot can have significantly reduced lifespans.  TFA says that this experiment lead to system crashes and other instability- I'd be willing to bet that's due to overheating in at least a few cases.


Happened to my computer in general. I forgot that whole 'dusting' thing. That was bad.
 
2013-05-02 01:52:05 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Honest Bender: I've got 2 200mm radiators sandwiched between 3 200mm fans. Come at me, bro.

[www.ixbt.com image 500x557]


You call that a cooler? THIS is a cooler.
images.bit-tech.net
/yeah, i'm a nerd...
 
2013-05-02 01:54:59 PM  

NeverDrunk23: Fubini: Fizpez: Running a GPU for 2-3 hours probably uses 25 cents worth of electricity in most places (way more in certain locations).  I'd be incredibly pissed if someone was stealing money from me every single day using my electric bill to make themselves rich.

I would be less concerned about the electric use, and more concerned about the wear and tear on my GPU. Most people probably aren't set up to run their processors at 90-100% capacity for days at a time. If nothing else, the fans will run constantly and you'll need to be very conscientious about dusting them regularly and ambient temperatures.  There's a world of difference between a clean machine in a server room with 70 degree filtered air and an end-user desktop that hasn't been dusted in a year or two in 80 degree heat and high humidity.

Computers that run very hot can have significantly reduced lifespans.  TFA says that this experiment lead to system crashes and other instability- I'd be willing to bet that's due to overheating in at least a few cases.

Happened to my computer in general. I forgot that whole 'dusting' thing. That was bad.


That reminds me: time to clean some pc fans.
 
2013-05-02 01:56:02 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Side panel off, 3000btu air conditioner aimed into the cavity. Set, match.


Years ago when I was poor and living in a shiatty third floor apartment that never went below 80 degrees in the summer with the window a/c on full blast in the dead of night I took the side panel off my tower, set it on its side and put a window fan on it. Never saw the ambient internal temperature above 30C and the CPU never went above 32C.

Eventually....

NeverDrunk23: Happened to my computer in general. I forgot that whole 'dusting' thing. That was bad.


.... that was the end result.
 
2013-05-02 02:04:11 PM  

nmemkha: Time to put of a kickstarter to start a bitcoin mining collective. Why donate CPU cycles to charity (SETI, Folding@Home) when you can use them to mint virtual coins?


No need for kickstarter. There are already several Bitcoin mining pools, for example p2pool.
 
2013-05-02 02:07:31 PM  

Need a Dispenser Here: Satanic_Hamster: Honest Bender: I've got 2 200mm radiators sandwiched between 3 200mm fans. Come at me, bro.

[www.ixbt.com image 500x557]

You call that a cooler? THIS is a cooler.
[images.bit-tech.net image 850x680]
/yeah, i'm a nerd...


Yessir!  I don't even pretend to know why they achieve the numbers they do but by god is it ever funny watching them stomp all over far more expensive and fancier liquid commercial coolers in every benchmarking round-up they're placed in.  I think they're among the few pieces of PC hardware that have gone up in price since their introduction instead of down.
 
2013-05-02 02:08:45 PM  

Weigard: "Luckily I have family in the software forensics industry."

This is the most internet tough guy thing I have ever heard.


Consequences will never be the same!
 
2013-05-02 02:10:21 PM  

Need a Dispenser Here: Satanic_Hamster: Honest Bender: I've got 2 200mm radiators sandwiched between 3 200mm fans. Come at me, bro.

[www.ixbt.com image 500x557]

You call that a cooler? THIS is a cooler.
[images.bit-tech.net image 850x680]
/yeah, i'm a nerd...


But the colors on that thing are HORRIBLE.
 
2013-05-02 02:16:10 PM  

NeverDrunk23: Happened to my computer in general. I forgot that whole 'dusting' thing. That was bad.


Not just dusting, but most consumer grade hardware just isn't made to be used in a 100% duty cycle. 

I had a GPU back in in the 2004-2008 timeframe that had a sucky little plastic fan on top of a comparatively nice copper heatsink. The fan literally melted off of the GPU inside the manufacturer's warranty period, so I gave them a call and they sent out a replacement heatsink. Then it happened agian, same result. The third time I demanded a suitable replacement that wouldn't melt itself every 6-8 months, and in response they sent me a case of FOUR new heatsink/fan combos so I wouldn't call again. Surprisingly  the third time was a charm cuz it never happened again.
 
2013-05-02 02:23:17 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: But the colors on that thing are HORRIBLE.


Seriously. Doesn't go in my rig if it doesn't have at least four neon day-glo colors and blinking LEDs. At Christmas time we put all the presents under the tower and sip warm cocoa around the exhaust vents.

It helps to have so many exhaust vents.
 
2013-05-02 02:26:11 PM  
Side topic, but if you have Pando Media Booster in your installed programs list, UNINSTALL IT IMMEDIATELY!!!

/little trojan utterly farked up my internet connection, spent like three hours troubleshooting my router before discovering it
//comes included with LoL as well as other F2P games, only consent given for its install is hidden in the EULA
 
2013-05-02 02:41:51 PM  

Fizpez: ex0du5: It's only "people" by dictionary definition that were robbed here. Since they didn't incorporate, it's not like real people got hurt here, so no law enforcement need get involved.

What does that mean?  The "people" who got robbed were actual people who bought a game.  Try taking "just a quarter" from the register of the next couple stores you shop at.  When someone calls the cops explain that you only took a quarter, so no big deal.

Running a GPU for 2-3 hours probably uses 25 cents worth of electricity in most places (way more in certain locations).  I'd be incredibly pissed if someone was stealing money from me every single day using my electric bill to make themselves rich.


I apologise I went the sarcasm route.  My point could have been clearer: If someone hacked into a corporation and mined bitcoins with their resources, they would be charged with federal crimes and face serious time and fines.  But because a corporation hacked into peoples machines and made money off of individuals, this will likely not be handled by law enforcement at all.  Even though money was stolen without contractual agreement and it should under other circumstances be viewed as an incident of malicious hacking.

My second point appears also to be in line with yours.  I will try not to make my statements with the whimsy of humanity in the future.
 
2013-05-02 02:46:03 PM  
Wow, you have what is essentially a legitemate software company intentionally putting malware into their software sold to consumers which turned their machines into a bitcoin mining botnet.  To me it doesn't matter what their compensation/reimbursement is, the trust has been broken.
 
2013-05-02 02:47:23 PM  

heavymetal: Wow, you have what is essentially a legitemate software company intentionally putting malware into their software sold to consumers which turned their machines into a bitcoin mining botnet.  To me it doesn't matter what their compensation/reimbursement is, the trust has been broken.


Yea, but even ignoring all that, Sony still just doesn't make very good products anymore.
 
2013-05-02 03:30:20 PM  

Fubini: NeverDrunk23: Happened to my computer in general. I forgot that whole 'dusting' thing. That was bad.

Not just dusting, but most consumer grade hardware just isn't made to be used in a 100% duty cycle. 

I had a GPU back in in the 2004-2008 timeframe that had a sucky little plastic fan on top of a comparatively nice copper heatsink. The fan literally melted off of the GPU inside the manufacturer's warranty period, so I gave them a call and they sent out a replacement heatsink. Then it happened agian, same result. The third time I demanded a suitable replacement that wouldn't melt itself every 6-8 months, and in response they sent me a case of FOUR new heatsink/fan combos so I wouldn't call again. Surprisingly  the third time was a charm cuz it never happened again.


I had the computer for two years but never dusted or cleaned the fan. My room is pretty dusty too. One day the computer froze and died. I couldnt get it to start up or recover. When I took off the face plate to get to the hard drive, there were clumps of dust in it.

My computer was always loud running but i thought that was my browser eating up memory when running.
 
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