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(Wired UK)   Gearbox is being sued over Aliens:Colonial Marines. Subby wants to know if they could throw in a cease and desist order with the Borderlands 2 nerfing   (wired.co.uk) divider line 90
    More: Interesting, SEGA, Gearbox Software, false advertising, Malpai Borderlands, Asa, Randy Pitchford  
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2815 clicks; posted to Geek » on 02 May 2013 at 9:51 AM (51 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-02 01:45:31 AM
Eh, this will go nowhere.

I thought sega was finally suing Gearbox over lack of good faith or something like that when it came to making the game, since GB had little to do with the development.
 
2013-05-02 09:25:03 AM
Prior to purchase:
www.fmvmagazine.com

Purchase:
2.bp.blogspot.com

Popping the disk in:
3.bp.blogspot.com

1 hour in:
www.top10films.co.uk

3 hours in:
geektyrant.com

5 hours in:
theworldaccordingtoalice.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-05-02 09:56:18 AM
Tough call. On one hand, Gearbox, if I understand the story correctly, completely misused funds for this game for their own products, and really, should be held liable for that. But people suing because they bought a shiatty game? That sets a precedent that will come back to haunt a LOT of companies, and may even drive smaller, independent companies to re-think whether or not their game they actually put hard work into is worth putting out, in case other people won't like it and will sue them.
 
2013-05-02 09:56:43 AM

scottydoesntknow: Prior to purchase:
[www.fmvmagazine.com image 440x400]

Purchase:
[2.bp.blogspot.com image 557x305]

Popping the disk in:
[3.bp.blogspot.com image 480x270]

1 hour in:
[www.top10films.co.uk image 580x315]

3 hours in:
[geektyrant.com image 635x346]

5 hours in:
[theworldaccordingtoalice.files.wordpress.com image 360x222]


Coffee just blasted out of my nose.

Bravo!
 
2013-05-02 10:02:59 AM
Wait, what happened to Borderlands 2?  I've been meaning to finish that game.
 
2013-05-02 10:07:16 AM

RoxtarRyan: Tough call. On one hand, Gearbox, if I understand the story correctly, completely misused funds for this game for their own products, and really, should be held liable for that. But people suing because they bought a shiatty game? That sets a precedent that will come back to haunt a LOT of companies, and may even drive smaller, independent companies to re-think whether or not their game they actually put hard work into is worth putting out, in case other people won't like it and will sue them.


I agree with you, but I think we can both agree that the game that was hyped and advertised was not the game that was delivered. The fact that they put an embargo on reviews until release day shows they knew it was a shiatty product and wanted to delay the negative feedback as much as possible.

I thought Dragon Age 2 was a shiatty game, but advertising didn't mislead me on that. I just had really lofty expectations for it and that was more my fault. If I had purchased A:CM, I really would've felt that it was false advertising. That game was a best a buggy mess, and at worst not even a finished game.
 
2013-05-02 10:08:36 AM

Kaeishiwaza: Wait, what happened to Borderlands 2?  I've been meaning to finish that game.


This is actually the more important question.
 
2013-05-02 10:09:28 AM

Kaeishiwaza: Wait, what happened to Borderlands 2?  I've been meaning to finish that game.


Subby is probably whining about Gearbox nerfing The Bee shield's amp damage amount and per-pellet shotgun silly business, and more recently, the Evil Smasher and the glitch that let you switch back and forth to it while it was doing its reload animation.  The Evil Smasher glitch, while pretty hilarious and fun, was also game breaking.  Anyone with an Evil Smasher and an Infinity Pistol could pretty much make themselves an unstoppable bullet spraying monster.  If they had left that glitch in place with the recent level cap increase, the entire point of having an extremely difficult 3rd playthrough and end game would have been broken, as you could easily walk through the whole 3rd run without issue.  I used to use the Evil Smasher glitch to walk my friends' new characters through the 1st and 2nd playthrough so they could get to the end game stuff without playing the story over and over and over again.
 
2013-05-02 10:11:22 AM

RoxtarRyan: Tough call. On one hand, Gearbox, if I understand the story correctly, completely misused funds for this game for their own products, and really, should be held liable for that. But people suing because they bought a shiatty game? That sets a precedent that will come back to haunt a LOT of companies, and may even drive smaller, independent companies to re-think whether or not their game they actually put hard work into is worth putting out, in case other people won't like it and will sue them.


It might not happen this case, but there is another out there where the program slipped bitcoin mining code into the program to mine for the publisher.  I don't think the publishers' hardline (and Microsoft's traditional) "we will do whatever we want with the computer you just gave us, and you should be thankful for it" will last much longer.  Don't know where the line will be drawn, bitcoins, installers that continue to torrent their code and use up all your upstream capability until you manually uninstall it, or even bad games.

http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/05/secret-bitcoin-mining-softwa re -added-to-video-game-sparks-outrage/
 
2013-05-02 10:11:30 AM

Kaeishiwaza: Wait, what happened to Borderlands 2?  I've been meaning to finish that game.


They eliminated a cheat (Evil Smasher glitch, or possibly the earlier Bee/Shotgun fix) and cheaters such as subby are annoyed about it.

Now, I'm personally annoyed that they removed the Storage Bank glitch (there was an easy to use glitch that allowed you to store infinite amounts of stuff in the Storage Bank).  Now, this was needed to cover up a blatant design flaw-the amount of storage (in a looting game!) is incredibility small.
 
2013-05-02 10:13:38 AM
Sued?  Have you seen that piece of shiat game?  I wanna know why Gearbox isnt in gitmo with a elctrodes shocking all their balls off for that piece of shiat.
 
2013-05-02 10:16:34 AM

Geotpf: Kaeishiwaza: Wait, what happened to Borderlands 2?  I've been meaning to finish that game.

They eliminated a cheat (Evil Smasher glitch, or possibly the earlier Bee/Shotgun fix) and cheaters such as subby are annoyed about it.

Now, I'm personally annoyed that they removed the Storage Bank glitch (there was an easy to use glitch that allowed you to store infinite amounts of stuff in the Storage Bank).  Now, this was needed to cover up a blatant design flaw-the amount of storage (in a looting game!) is incredibility small.


Hahahaha so you aren't a cheater but subby is? Exploiting a glitch is exploiting a glitch, and whether you liked it or not Gearbox designed the Storage Bank to only hold a certain amount.

Me, I'll say that I was upset about all of the nerfs/glitch fixes (Bee, Smasher, bank, etc.). I hadn't had the Bee shield 2 days before they issued that patch. Them farking with the drop rates on super-rares is also BS.

Unless it's something that negatively affects your character or other players, don't fark with the game.
 
2013-05-02 10:20:07 AM

scottydoesntknow: The fact that they put an embargo on reviews until release day shows they knew it was a shiatty product and wanted to delay the negative feedback as much as possible.


Kind of like how movie studios won't let people review their movie before it hits theaters!
 
2013-05-02 10:21:31 AM

scottydoesntknow: Geotpf: Kaeishiwaza: Wait, what happened to Borderlands 2?  I've been meaning to finish that game.

They eliminated a cheat (Evil Smasher glitch, or possibly the earlier Bee/Shotgun fix) and cheaters such as subby are annoyed about it.

Now, I'm personally annoyed that they removed the Storage Bank glitch (there was an easy to use glitch that allowed you to store infinite amounts of stuff in the Storage Bank).  Now, this was needed to cover up a blatant design flaw-the amount of storage (in a looting game!) is incredibility small.

Hahahaha so you aren't a cheater but subby is? Exploiting a glitch is exploiting a glitch, and whether you liked it or not Gearbox designed the Storage Bank to only hold a certain amount.

Me, I'll say that I was upset about all of the nerfs/glitch fixes (Bee, Smasher, bank, etc.). I hadn't had the Bee shield 2 days before they issued that patch. Them farking with the drop rates on super-rares is also BS.

Unless it's something that negatively affects your character or other players, don't fark with the game.


One causes you to be able to kill things faster; it removes all skill from the game.  One allows you to actually keep the loot you got from the thing you killed instead of being forced to throw it away or sell it to the vendors.  Quite different.  Plus, almost every public game had people doing the ESS cheat, ruining the game for everybody else until they were kicked.

I would much prefer they add additional storage legitimately to being forced to use the storage bank glitch.
 
2013-05-02 10:24:58 AM

RoxtarRyan: scottydoesntknow: The fact that they put an embargo on reviews until release day shows they knew it was a shiatty product and wanted to delay the negative feedback as much as possible.

Kind of like how movie studios won't let people review their movie before it hits theaters!


At least with those kind of movies (99% of the time it's the parody or just shiatty comedy ones) you know it's going to be shiat because of the commercials. If the commercials can't even make me crack a smile, I'm not even going to waste the effort looking at reviews.
 
2013-05-02 10:31:45 AM

chozo13: scottydoesntknow: Prior to purchase:
[www.fmvmagazine.com image 440x400]

Purchase:
[2.bp.blogspot.com image 557x305]

Popping the disk in:
[3.bp.blogspot.com image 480x270]

1 hour in:
[www.top10films.co.uk image 580x315]

3 hours in:
[geektyrant.com image 635x346]

5 hours in:
[theworldaccordingtoalice.files.wordpress.com image 360x222]

Coffee just blasted out of my nose.

Bravo!


Coke burns the sinuses!

/The bubble stuff, not the powder, sheesh!
//He's Hicks...
 
2013-05-02 10:31:50 AM

Geotpf: One causes you to be able to kill things faster; it removes all skill from the game. One allows you to actually keep the loot you got from the thing you killed instead of being forced to throw it away or sell it to the vendors. Quite different. Plus, almost every public game had people doing the ESS cheat, ruining the game for everybody else until they were kicked.

I would much prefer they add additional storage legitimately to being forced to use the storage bank glitch.


Some people actually like that. Hell I remember playing Diablo II and farming my ass off to try and get the perfect gear so I could build my Hammerdin. That glitch meant insane amounts of damage (20K per hammer), and I could A) Help friends get through the areas faster so we could play and B) farm high-level bosses for more loot.

I'll agree that it could ruin other people's time (I never played online with random people, it was either myself or my friends playing). And I also want them to add more storage to the game, it's pretty dumb to have so few slots for a looting game.
 
2013-05-02 10:33:35 AM

wraithmare: /The bubble stuff, not the powder, sheesh!
//He's Hicks...


Nope. Hicks is the one that survives to the end with Ripley (although he's really farked up by then).

www.zerosun.com
 
2013-05-02 10:39:50 AM

scottydoesntknow: RoxtarRyan: scottydoesntknow: The fact that they put an embargo on reviews until release day shows they knew it was a shiatty product and wanted to delay the negative feedback as much as possible.

Kind of like how movie studios won't let people review their movie before it hits theaters!

At least with those kind of movies (99% of the time it's the parody or just shiatty comedy ones) you know it's going to be shiat because of the commercials. If the commercials can't even make me crack a smile, I'm not even going to waste the effort looking at reviews.


Pretty much! On the other hand though, I HATE seeing trailers that give too much away, for either video games or movies. Anytime I see a trailer on TV for a movie I want to see, I change the channel. Example: Iron Man 3. Look, don't give away that Stark has shiatloads of new tech, don't tell me who the bad guy is, or anything else. Most of America has seen the other two, and if not, have seen The Avengers. We know who the hell Tony Stark is, and we know the movie will be chock full of awesome effects and witty one liners and have some kind of new threat. Just tell us the damn movie is coming out on whatever date, and go see it. Save the possible spoilers and kickass explosions for the actual movie.
 
2013-05-02 10:40:49 AM

Geotpf: I would much prefer they add additional storage legitimately to being forced to use the storage bank glitch.


I just kept bank characters around.  I would create a character for the sole purpose of holding on to things.  Have a friend host the game, join the game with whatever toon has the loot you want to store, drop it on the ground, then exit and join with your "storage toon" and pick up the drops.  I usually name my storage characters "Lootsplosion" and a rarity color to keep track of them.  So, LootsplosionOrange carries and banks nothing but orange loot.  If you need something specific, just grab that toon, have him toss his stuff into Claptrap's stash, and then go grab it with your actual gameplay toon. 

As far as fixing the ES glitch, seriously, that BROKE the game.  I don't ever play with random people, I only play with my wife and our friends, so I don't have to deal with random players.  But I'm certain the game would get boring quickly if there was someone in the game using the ES glitch.  Like I said, I used the ES glitch to help get my friends newly created toons up to the end of playthrough 2 as quickly as possible.  They would usually just stand off to the side while I rushed through the story missions.  With a lvl 50 evil smasher and a lvl 50 infinity pistol (or two, I had a non-elemental and a corrosive one) you could kill the Warrior in about 15 seconds, and half that wait was waiting for him to emerge in the area where they scripted him to die over by the control panel.  With a bee shield on, you were letting loose 2.5million dmg per bullet out of the infinity pistols, with a Gunzerker, double it.  Not to mention, the Evil Smasher glitch also boosted the rate of fire and accuracy of all weapons.  Making the Infinity pistol fire like a laserbeam.  Just tapping the trigger would unleash about 20 million dmg points on the intended target with pinpoint accuracy.  It needed to go, as fun as it was to be able to walk through the first two playthroughs in an afternoon, it certainly ruins casual play.
 
2013-05-02 11:03:18 AM

scottydoesntknow: Prior to purchase:
[www.fmvmagazine.com image 440x400]

Purchase:
[2.bp.blogspot.com image 557x305]

Popping the disk in:
[3.bp.blogspot.com image 480x270]

1 hour in:
[www.top10films.co.uk image 580x315]

3 hours in:
[geektyrant.com image 635x346]

5 hours in:
[theworldaccordingtoalice.files.wordpress.com image 360x222]


I was expecting just another bug hunt in this thread.
 
2013-05-02 11:15:45 AM

scottydoesntknow: wraithmare: /The bubble stuff, not the powder, sheesh!
//He's Hicks...

Nope. Hicks is the one that survives to the end with Ripley (although he's really farked up by then).

[www.zerosun.com image 490x290]


And woosh, right over your head.

/saw what was done there
 
2013-05-02 11:30:22 AM
They should to get sued over all this.  Rarely have I seen a game so misrepresented to the press, gamers, etc.  hat they showed at trade shows was nothign like what actually shipped in the end, and they knew this months before hand.  A lot of angry pre-orders from all this.

You can look back at previous examples, like Killzone 2 and Halo 2, but both later showed off actual gameplay more representative of the game by the time they shipped.

Aliens CM didn't.  They literally mislead everyone, knowing the embargo wouldn't be up till it was too late to effect pre-orders.
 
2013-05-02 11:39:58 AM

Antimatter: They should to get sued over all this.  Rarely have I seen a game so misrepresented to the press, gamers, etc.  hat they showed at trade shows was nothign like what actually shipped in the end, and they knew this months before hand.  A lot of angry pre-orders from all this.

You can look back at previous examples, like Killzone 2 and Halo 2, but both later showed off actual gameplay more representative of the game by the time they shipped.

Aliens CM didn't.  They literally mislead everyone, knowing the embargo wouldn't be up till it was too late to effect pre-orders.


I was all hyped up to buy this when it was getting close to come out. Got distracted by something I was working on and a few weeks went by. By the time I got ready to buy it, I saw the reviews coming in.

Glad I waited.
 
2013-05-02 11:50:17 AM
From what I've heard, this does rise to the level of misleading advertising.  Of course, the people who bought the game will get like a dollar or a coupon for a free shiatty game or something.
 
2013-05-02 11:50:35 AM

Titanius Anglesmith: Antimatter: They should to get sued over all this.  Rarely have I seen a game so misrepresented to the press, gamers, etc.  hat they showed at trade shows was nothign like what actually shipped in the end, and they knew this months before hand.  A lot of angry pre-orders from all this.

You can look back at previous examples, like Killzone 2 and Halo 2, but both later showed off actual gameplay more representative of the game by the time they shipped.

Aliens CM didn't.  They literally mislead everyone, knowing the embargo wouldn't be up till it was too late to effect pre-orders.

I was all hyped up to buy this when it was getting close to come out. Got distracted by something I was working on and a few weeks went by. By the time I got ready to buy it, I saw the reviews coming in.

Glad I waited.


I guess I am one of the few that really enjoy that game. Play the hell out of it single player then went through on multiplayer campaign. All I wanted was to shoot and kill Xenomorphs. That is what I got. No complaints here. Still play it too.
 
2013-05-02 11:57:43 AM

Antimatter: Rarely have I seen a game so misrepresented to the press, gamers, etc.


Spore? That was supposed to be something much, MUCH better, more involved and more "science-y", instead turned into a DRM-infested crappy shiatfest.
Duke Nukem Forever? Not much else needs to be said about that one.
Dead Space 3? Completely underwhelming. Would love to get my money back for that, but will never happen.

Software is a quirky thing... Any software should have a "buyer beware" sticker on it. Unless they explicitly come out and say "THIS IS THE GAME YOU WILL PLAY", everything shown at a demo is an alpha/ beta and subject to change.

Now, if they actually showed commercials for the product and it had test demo footage or alpha footage in there and it didn't say otherwise, THAT would be misleading. This may or may not be the case for Aliens, cause frankly, I had a feeling it would be a stinker, so never bothered watching them.
 
2013-05-02 12:01:38 PM

RoxtarRyan: scottydoesntknow: The fact that they put an embargo on reviews until release day shows they knew it was a shiatty product and wanted to delay the negative feedback as much as possible.

Kind of like how movie studios won't let people review their movie before it hits theaters!


This is a little different than hiding a bad product from critics

It would be like Iron Man 3 having Robert Downey, Jr. in the trailers, and then the actual film having Morton Downey, Jr. in it.
 
2013-05-02 12:19:20 PM

Sgt Otter: It would be like Iron Man 3 having Robert Downey, Jr. in the trailers, and then the actual film having Morton Downey, Jr. in it.


Or Tim Honks?
 
2013-05-02 12:19:59 PM
Just came in to say that despite my dislike of the Borderlands series, Claptrap is hilarious in Poker Night 2. Little shiat-talking bastard.
 
2013-05-02 12:21:23 PM

RoxtarRyan: Spore? That was supposed to be something much, MUCH better, more involved and more "science-y", instead turned into a DRM-infested crappy shiatfest.
Duke Nukem Forever? Not much else needs to be said about that one.
Dead Space 3? Completely underwhelming. Would love to get my money back for that, but will never happen.


EA/Spore was sued by two different individuals, specifically for the implentation of SecuROM. That forced EA to remove the DRM and open up the number of authorized machines from 3 to 5. If anything that showed that threatening/filing lawsuits can get publishers and developers to change for the better.

Duke Nuken Forever? If anyone expected that to actually be more than what it was, that was their own fault. I had very low expectations for it which was confirmed by the reviews. The trailers and commercials for it looked like shiat, like the actual game.

Dead Space 3 was a cash-grab definitely, but the game worked and what was advertised is what was reflected in the actual game. I felt the same about Dragon Age 2, but that was my own expectations that weren't met.

Now, if they actually showed commercials for the product and it had test demo footage or alpha footage in there and it didn't say otherwise, THAT would be misleading.

Randy Pitchford said that word for word a couple of times (that it was actual in-game footage) at the different expos and demos showing it off.

The UK Advertising board forced them to add a disclaimer to the bottom of the commercials saying "This does not reflect in-game graphics/content" because even they felt it was misleading.
 
2013-05-02 12:22:35 PM

mooseyfate: Just came in to say that despite my dislike of the Borderlands series, Claptrap is hilarious in Poker Night 2. Little shiat-talking bastard.


In case you didn't know, the voice of ClapTrap is a Farker. He gets on from time to time.
 
2013-05-02 12:24:13 PM

scottydoesntknow: mooseyfate: Just came in to say that despite my dislike of the Borderlands series, Claptrap is hilarious in Poker Night 2. Little shiat-talking bastard.

In case you didn't know, the voice of ClapTrap is a Farker. He gets on from time to time.


Good for him. Claptrap always reminded me of GIR.
 
2013-05-02 12:33:02 PM

yves0010: I guess I am one of the few that really enjoy that game. Play the hell out of it single player then went through on multiplayer campaign. All I wanted was to shoot and kill Xenomorphs. That is what I got. No complaints here. Still play it too.


Same here.  I'll admit I'm a huge Aliens fan, so really anything with a pulse rifle would have made me happy.  But the game wasn't nearly as bad as everyone claims (or assumes) it is.  Some parts were damn clever and a kinda scary.  I've spent more on less, many times.

But really, a lawsuit?  No one made you preorder it.  No one made you buy it before reviews came out.
 
2013-05-02 12:38:02 PM

mooseyfate: Just came in to say that despite my dislike of the Borderlands series, Claptrap is hilarious in Poker Night 2. Little shiat-talking bastard.


I've lost many a hand just because I'm laughing too hard to make smart plays.  Also, I just suck at poker.
 
2013-05-02 12:39:38 PM

PanicMan: yves0010: I guess I am one of the few that really enjoy that game. Play the hell out of it single player then went through on multiplayer campaign. All I wanted was to shoot and kill Xenomorphs. That is what I got. No complaints here. Still play it too.

Same here.  I'll admit I'm a huge Aliens fan, so really anything with a pulse rifle would have made me happy.  But the game wasn't nearly as bad as everyone claims (or assumes) it is.  Some parts were damn clever and a kinda scary.  I've spent more on less, many times.

But really, a lawsuit?  No one made you preorder it.  No one made you buy it before reviews came out.


It had several pre-order exclusive items/perks, and the previews all looked very solid.  It's just, the preview were not representative of the actual game being released.
 
2013-05-02 12:45:11 PM

readymix: Kaeishiwaza: Wait, what happened to Borderlands 2?  I've been meaning to finish that game.

Subby is probably whining about Gearbox nerfing The Bee shield's amp damage amount and per-pellet shotgun silly business, and more recently, the Evil Smasher and the glitch that let you switch back and forth to it while it was doing its reload animation.  The Evil Smasher glitch, while pretty hilarious and fun, was also game breaking.  Anyone with an Evil Smasher and an Infinity Pistol could pretty much make themselves an unstoppable bullet spraying monster.  If they had left that glitch in place with the recent level cap increase, the entire point of having an extremely difficult 3rd playthrough and end game would have been broken, as you could easily walk through the whole 3rd run without issue.  I used to use the Evil Smasher glitch to walk my friends' new characters through the 1st and 2nd playthrough so they could get to the end game stuff without playing the story over and over and over again.


Subby here.  I don't have a problem with the Bee shield and ES fix.  In fact they've made the game better.  What I was referring to was the Seraph store,  raid boss drops and some of the class mods.  It's bad enough that the tougher enemies are already bullet sponges, but cutting back on the weapons, shields and mods that bosses drop(and making certain Seraph weapons raid boss drops only) has made the after endgame a long, boring chore.  I occasionally play with some pretty hardcore farmers and even they are frustrated with the direction things are going.  Gearbox has been gradually nudging the game into a "World of Borderlands" direction and it's sucking the fun out of it.
 
2013-05-02 01:13:03 PM

PanicMan: yves0010: I guess I am one of the few that really enjoy that game. Play the hell out of it single player then went through on multiplayer campaign. All I wanted was to shoot and kill Xenomorphs. That is what I got. No complaints here. Still play it too.

Same here.  I'll admit I'm a huge Aliens fan, so really anything with a pulse rifle would have made me happy.  But the game wasn't nearly as bad as everyone claims (or assumes) it is.  Some parts were damn clever and a kinda scary.  I've spent more on less, many times.

But really, a lawsuit?  No one made you preorder it.  No one made you buy it before reviews came out.


Hey, you're free to like what you want. But from a technical standpoint, the game failed on pretty much every level, and what was advertised is not what was delivered.

When you can run from the start of a level to the end without firing a single shot, that is not a good game.
 
2013-05-02 01:25:46 PM
If anyone has standing to sue Gearbox over the game, it's Sega.
 
2013-05-02 01:32:03 PM

scottydoesntknow: PanicMan: yves0010: I guess I am one of the few that really enjoy that game. Play the hell out of it single player then went through on multiplayer campaign. All I wanted was to shoot and kill Xenomorphs. That is what I got. No complaints here. Still play it too.

Same here.  I'll admit I'm a huge Aliens fan, so really anything with a pulse rifle would have made me happy.  But the game wasn't nearly as bad as everyone claims (or assumes) it is.  Some parts were damn clever and a kinda scary.  I've spent more on less, many times.

But really, a lawsuit?  No one made you preorder it.  No one made you buy it before reviews came out.

Hey, you're free to like what you want. But from a technical standpoint, the game failed on pretty much every level, and what was advertised is not what was delivered.

When you can run from the start of a level to the end without firing a single shot, that is not a good game.


I know lots of people didn't like it, and I can understand that.  I just don't know on what grounds you can sue about being unhappy.  I really can't say without seeing the actual lawsuit.
 
2013-05-02 01:42:43 PM

Flappyhead: readymix: Kaeishiwaza: Wait, what happened to Borderlands 2?  I've been meaning to finish that game.

Subby is probably whining about Gearbox nerfing The Bee shield's amp damage amount and per-pellet shotgun silly business, and more recently, the Evil Smasher and the glitch that let you switch back and forth to it while it was doing its reload animation.  The Evil Smasher glitch, while pretty hilarious and fun, was also game breaking.  Anyone with an Evil Smasher and an Infinity Pistol could pretty much make themselves an unstoppable bullet spraying monster.  If they had left that glitch in place with the recent level cap increase, the entire point of having an extremely difficult 3rd playthrough and end game would have been broken, as you could easily walk through the whole 3rd run without issue.  I used to use the Evil Smasher glitch to walk my friends' new characters through the 1st and 2nd playthrough so they could get to the end game stuff without playing the story over and over and over again.

Subby here.  I don't have a problem with the Bee shield and ES fix.  In fact they've made the game better.  What I was referring to was the Seraph store,  raid boss drops and some of the class mods.  It's bad enough that the tougher enemies are already bullet sponges, but cutting back on the weapons, shields and mods that bosses drop(and making certain Seraph weapons raid boss drops only) has made the after endgame a long, boring chore.  I occasionally play with some pretty hardcore farmers and even they are frustrated with the direction things are going.  Gearbox has been gradually nudging the game into a "World of Borderlands" direction and it's sucking the fun out of it.


Ok, that I can agree with for sure.  The drop rate is ridiculous.  Not only is a good drop from a raid boss not a guaranteed thing, but they have 24 hour timers on the Seraph crystals.  Or they used to.  I stopped giving a crap about the seraph crystals when I realized the junk at the seraph vendor really isn't worth grinding through 5 raid bosses per day for a week to be able to afford them.  The drop rates for the legendary stuff is infuriating for sure.  Things like the Infinity Pistol with a 0.5% drop rate from Doc Mercy.  That means if you kill him 200 times, you might get one.  Or the Bee Shield, that drops from Hunter Hellquist, but if you complete the Hunter Hellquist mission, he's gone for good.  The only way around it is to sit and farm varkids for hours till one of them drops a Quasar grenade, or find a singularity grenade that has an area of effect large enough to piss him off through the wall.  Though the Bee drop rate is much higher than the Infinity, it's still a total grind.  A 5% drop rate for rare stuff would be a HUGE improvement over the current setup.
 
2013-05-02 01:45:44 PM

scottydoesntknow: RoxtarRyan: Spore? That was supposed to be something much, MUCH better, more involved and more "science-y", instead turned into a DRM-infested crappy shiatfest.
Duke Nukem Forever? Not much else needs to be said about that one.
Dead Space 3? Completely underwhelming. Would love to get my money back for that, but will never happen.

EA/Spore was sued by two different individuals, specifically for the implentation of SecuROM. That forced EA to remove the DRM and open up the number of authorized machines from 3 to 5. If anything that showed that threatening/filing lawsuits can get publishers and developers to change for the better.

Duke Nuken Forever? If anyone expected that to actually be more than what it was, that was their own fault. I had very low expectations for it which was confirmed by the reviews. The trailers and commercials for it looked like shiat, like the actual game.

Dead Space 3 was a cash-grab definitely, but the game worked and what was advertised is what was reflected in the actual game. I felt the same about Dragon Age 2, but that was my own expectations that weren't met.

Now, if they actually showed commercials for the product and it had test demo footage or alpha footage in there and it didn't say otherwise, THAT would be misleading.

Randy Pitchford said that word for word a couple of times (that it was actual in-game footage) at the different expos and demos showing it off.

The UK Advertising board forced them to add a disclaimer to the bottom of the commercials saying "This does not reflect in-game graphics/content" because even they felt it was misleading.


Duke Nukem was exactly what is was supposed to be,
 
2013-05-02 01:53:10 PM

mooseyfate: Just came in to say that despite my dislike of the Borderlands series, Claptrap is hilarious in Poker Night 2. Little shiat-talking bastard.


I'm loving PN:2!

"I'm going all in. Like I did with your mom last night... turns out she's a really good poker player."
 
2013-05-02 01:53:51 PM

PanicMan: I know lots of people didn't like it, and I can understand that. I just don't know on what grounds you can sue about being unhappy. I really can't say without seeing the actual lawsuit.


He's not suing because he's unhappy (well he is unhappy, but that's not the basis for the lawsuit). He's suing because the advertising/"game-play" trailers for the game did not reflect what was actually being sold.

It would be like purchasing Marve''s "Thor":
upload.wikimedia.org

And actually ending up with Asylum's "Almighty Thor" on the disk:
www.theasylum.cc
 
2013-05-02 02:00:28 PM
Playing with someone using the Evil Smasher glitch was boring as hell.

Bank and backpack space would freeze some peoples' systems so it had to be fixed.

They didn't nerf the Bee too much but along with the shotguns not counting pellets really sucks. Also the Baby Maker is kinda useless to throw full now. Personally I use the Flame of the Firehawk now, after lvl 50 the Bee isn't all that great in Ultimate Vault Hunter. Plus it works great on Deathtrap.

Everything else is just people complaining for the sake of complaining. Before the level increase everyone wanted the cap to go higher, now they think it was too much and don't want another one. I say max that f*cker out!
 
2013-05-02 02:07:09 PM

mooseyfate: Just came in to say that despite my dislike of the Borderlands series, Claptrap is hilarious in Poker Night 2. Little shiat-talking bastard.


stopped by a friend's house the other day, and he was playing that game.  I was quite pleased to discover that you can play poker with Ash from Army of Darkness.
 
2013-05-02 02:11:22 PM

RoxtarRyan:  But people suing because they bought a shiatty game?


It's not that the game is shiat.   It's that every demo, promo reel and "vertical slice of gaming" put out by them showed the game in a totally different light to what was actually released.  They are in fact two totally different games, even the mechanics used in the demo's are different in the release (or plain not there).

Now if you could just mark it as "not as advertised" (which is true it isn't) and return the damn thing then there would be no need to get the legal people involved, because they're the only ones who make money when you sue people.  But the games industry has systematically stopped the consumer from returning defective or falsely advertised products so that option is not open to people.

The only option that is open is to sue them.   The game industry has brought this on itself, hopefully the suit goes through and slaps the company silly
 
2013-05-02 02:20:15 PM

scottydoesntknow: PanicMan: I know lots of people didn't like it, and I can understand that. I just don't know on what grounds you can sue about being unhappy. I really can't say without seeing the actual lawsuit.

He's not suing because he's unhappy (well he is unhappy, but that's not the basis for the lawsuit). He's suing because the advertising/"game-play" trailers for the game did not reflect what was actually being sold.

It would be like purchasing Marve''s "Thor":
[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x326]

And actually ending up with Asylum's "Almighty Thor" on the disk:
[www.theasylum.cc image 256x359]


Thanks, I've been trying to think a way to articulate that same thought using a movie analogy.
 
2013-05-02 02:21:56 PM

scottydoesntknow: PanicMan: yves0010: I guess I am one of the few that really enjoy that game. Play the hell out of it single player then went through on multiplayer campaign. All I wanted was to shoot and kill Xenomorphs. That is what I got. No complaints here. Still play it too.

Same here.  I'll admit I'm a huge Aliens fan, so really anything with a pulse rifle would have made me happy.  But the game wasn't nearly as bad as everyone claims (or assumes) it is.  Some parts were damn clever and a kinda scary.  I've spent more on less, many times.

But really, a lawsuit?  No one made you preorder it.  No one made you buy it before reviews came out.

Hey, you're free to like what you want. But from a technical standpoint, the game failed on pretty much every level, and what was advertised is not what was delivered.

When you can run from the start of a level to the end without firing a single shot, that is not a good game.


The ability to perform a Pacifist Run is not itself demonstrative of poor design quality.

Youtube video creater MrBTongue argued that an "Aliens" based game would work in the "survival horror" genre, where not firing a "single shot" would be of great benefit in conserving resources.
 
2013-05-02 02:30:57 PM

readymix: Geotpf: I would much prefer they add additional storage legitimately to being forced to use the storage bank glitch.

I just kept bank characters around.  I would create a character for the sole purpose of holding on to things.  Have a friend host the game, join the game with whatever toon has the loot you want to store, drop it on the ground, then exit and join with your "storage toon" and pick up the drops.  I usually name my storage characters "Lootsplosion" and a rarity color to keep track of them.  So, LootsplosionOrange carries and banks nothing but orange loot.  If you need something specific, just grab that toon, have him toss his stuff into Claptrap's stash, and then go grab it with your actual gameplay toon. 

As far as fixing the ES glitch, seriously, that BROKE the game.  I don't ever play with random people, I only play with my wife and our friends, so I don't have to deal with random players.  But I'm certain the game would get boring quickly if there was someone in the game using the ES glitch.  Like I said, I used the ES glitch to help get my friends newly created toons up to the end of playthrough 2 as quickly as possible.  They would usually just stand off to the side while I rushed through the story missions.  With a lvl 50 evil smasher and a lvl 50 infinity pistol (or two, I had a non-elemental and a corrosive one) you could kill the Warrior in about 15 seconds, and half that wait was waiting for him to emerge in the area where they scripted him to die over by the control panel.  With a bee shield on, you were letting loose 2.5million dmg per bullet out of the infinity pistols, with a Gunzerker, double it.  Not to mention, the Evil Smasher glitch also boosted the rate of fire and accuracy of all weapons.  Making the Infinity pistol fire like a laserbeam.  Just tapping the trigger would unleash about 20 million dmg points on the intended target with pinpoint accuracy.  It needed to go, as fun as it was to be able to walk through the first two play ...


Damn. I could use that. It has been long enough that I can't even really describe where my gunzerker is, but every couple of steps involves another giant robot boss to fight. I just got sick of it.
 
2013-05-02 02:42:22 PM
scottydoesntknow:

And actually ending up with Asylum's "Almighty Thor" on the disk:
[www.theasylum.cc image 256x359]


I had to look this one up... wow.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-05-02 02:47:07 PM

Dimensio: scottydoesntknow: PanicMan: yves0010: I guess I am one of the few that really enjoy that game. Play the hell out of it single player then went through on multiplayer campaign. All I wanted was to shoot and kill Xenomorphs. That is what I got. No complaints here. Still play it too.

Same here.  I'll admit I'm a huge Aliens fan, so really anything with a pulse rifle would have made me happy.  But the game wasn't nearly as bad as everyone claims (or assumes) it is.  Some parts were damn clever and a kinda scary.  I've spent more on less, many times.

But really, a lawsuit?  No one made you preorder it.  No one made you buy it before reviews came out.

Hey, you're free to like what you want. But from a technical standpoint, the game failed on pretty much every level, and what was advertised is not what was delivered.

When you can run from the start of a level to the end without firing a single shot, that is not a good game.

The ability to perform a Pacifist Run is not itself demonstrative of poor design quality.

Youtube video creater MrBTongue argued that an "Aliens" based game would work in the "survival horror" genre, where not firing a "single shot" would be of great benefit in conserving resources.


There is a mission in the game that plays like stealth/ survival horror.  You lose your gun and are hunted by blind aliens that are attracted to the sound of your footsteps.
 
2013-05-02 02:49:05 PM

Dimensio: The ability to perform a Pacifist Run is not itself demonstrative of poor design quality.

Youtube video creater MrBTongue argued that an "Aliens" based game would work in the "survival horror" genre, where not firing a "single shot" would be of great benefit in conserving resources.


Ohh definitely. If the game is designed to where you can do a pacifist run sure. Like Dishonored or even RPGs like Skyrim and Fallout where people try to do pacifist runs.

That even works on a survival horror game too. I would love to have an Aliens survival horror type game. But A:CM is not survival horror, it's pure action FPS. It's not about conserving ammunition or trying to survive. You can literally sprint from one end to the other running right past enemies without dying. For an FPS that is not a good thing. It shows poor level design, poor enemy AI, poor planning on the dev's part, etc.
 
2013-05-02 03:11:04 PM

Flappyhead: readymix: Kaeishiwaza: Wait, what happened to Borderlands 2?  I've been meaning to finish that game.

Subby is probably whining about Gearbox nerfing The Bee shield's amp damage amount and per-pellet shotgun silly business, and more recently, the Evil Smasher and the glitch that let you switch back and forth to it while it was doing its reload animation.  The Evil Smasher glitch, while pretty hilarious and fun, was also game breaking.  Anyone with an Evil Smasher and an Infinity Pistol could pretty much make themselves an unstoppable bullet spraying monster.  If they had left that glitch in place with the recent level cap increase, the entire point of having an extremely difficult 3rd playthrough and end game would have been broken, as you could easily walk through the whole 3rd run without issue.  I used to use the Evil Smasher glitch to walk my friends' new characters through the 1st and 2nd playthrough so they could get to the end game stuff without playing the story over and over and over again.

Subby here.  I don't have a problem with the Bee shield and ES fix.  In fact they've made the game better.  What I was referring to was the Seraph store,  raid boss drops and some of the class mods.  It's bad enough that the tougher enemies are already bullet sponges, but cutting back on the weapons, shields and mods that bosses drop(and making certain Seraph weapons raid boss drops only) has made the after endgame a long, boring chore.  I occasionally play with some pretty hardcore farmers and even they are frustrated with the direction things are going.  Gearbox has been gradually nudging the game into a "World of Borderlands" direction and it's sucking the fun out of it.


Can you not just..cheat? I know there were some basic hacks to change drop rates on the slot machines, and golden keys, etc for a while.

Is there not a more universal trainer or something out there that can just fix your drop rates etc? It's a single player game, not a mmo, so why not just mod it?
 
2013-05-02 03:26:49 PM

frepnog: mooseyfate: Just came in to say that despite my dislike of the Borderlands series, Claptrap is hilarious in Poker Night 2. Little shiat-talking bastard.

stopped by a friend's house the other day, and he was playing that game.  I was quite pleased to discover that you can play poker with Ash from Army of Darkness.


Not voiced by Bruce Campbell, but they got a decent replacement.
 
2013-05-02 03:27:22 PM

kroonermanblack: Can you not just..cheat? I know there were some basic hacks to change drop rates on the slot machines, and golden keys, etc for a while.

Is there not a more universal trainer or something out there that can just fix your drop rates etc? It's a single player game, not a mmo, so why not just mod it?


Gearbox and Microsoft have both said they will ban anyone who uses unauthorized/3rd party means to gain an advantage in the game. This does not include glitches, as that's on the developer's head for leaving glitches in the game (which they fix with patches). But they have already banned quite a few people for using character/item editors. I know there was a rash of Level 150 (impossible to achieve through normal means) Gunzerkers running around destroying everything and they've perma-banned a lot.

Now maybe you could get by playing a single-player runthrough, but don't be surprised if they have ways to check it. The fact that at any point you could bring that souped-up/modded-out character onto a multiplayer server at any time makes it much more likely they'll ban you.

I've modded quite a few of my 360 games, but there's no way I would do that on a game that connects to their servers.

/Wish games would bring back cheat menus
//Sometimes I want to be an overpowered monster that can steamroll through everything
 
2013-05-02 03:34:42 PM
Did anyone actually buy Aliens:Colonial Marines?  Wasn't that game universally brutalized the instant it went on sale?
 
2013-05-02 03:35:32 PM

scottydoesntknow: I've modded quite a few of my 360 games, but there's no way I would do that on a game that connects to their servers.


What about on the PC?  That doesn't use Microsoft's or indeed Gearbox's servers at all.
 
2013-05-02 03:44:55 PM

Vaneshi: scottydoesntknow: I've modded quite a few of my 360 games, but there's no way I would do that on a game that connects to their servers.

What about on the PC?  That doesn't use Microsoft's or indeed Gearbox's servers at all.


Those may be fine, I wouldn't want to risk it though. All I know is they've banned a quite a few people on XBL and PSN for breach of EULA (modding/hacking). Then again those people were online in other people's games where they were affecting other's experiences, which is when they flip out.
 
2013-05-02 03:48:25 PM
I played Borderlands 2 through two playthroughs up to level 50 on a Gunzerzer, and one whole playthrough plus some up to Level 34 on Axton and I never saw the Bee Shield or the special gun that's supposed to work well with the Bee shield. I even tried killing the big monster over and over a few times.
 
2013-05-02 03:53:34 PM

scottydoesntknow: Those may be fine, I wouldn't want to risk it though. All I know is they've banned a quite a few people on XBL and PSN for breach of EULA (modding/hacking). Then again those people were online in other people's games where they were affecting other's experiences, which is when they flip out.


Well if they didn't try to turn a co-op shooter in to an MMO (who cares about drop rates FFS?) I wouldn't need to dick around with the damn game.  If BL2 ever stops working... I'll be in the small claims court getting my money back.
 
2013-05-02 03:57:43 PM

Vaneshi: scottydoesntknow: Those may be fine, I wouldn't want to risk it though. All I know is they've banned a quite a few people on XBL and PSN for breach of EULA (modding/hacking). Then again those people were online in other people's games where they were affecting other's experiences, which is when they flip out.

Well if they didn't try to turn a co-op shooter in to an MMO (who cares about drop rates FFS?) I wouldn't need to dick around with the damn game.  If BL2 ever stops working... I'll be in the small claims court getting my money back.


Ha, believe me man I agree. They need to increase drop rates on super rares and do away with the Storage Bank limit.
 
2013-05-02 04:00:43 PM

Flappyhead: readymix: Kaeishiwaza: Wait, what happened to Borderlands 2?  I've been meaning to finish that game.

Subby is probably whining about Gearbox nerfing The Bee shield's amp damage amount and per-pellet shotgun silly business, and more recently, the Evil Smasher and the glitch that let you switch back and forth to it while it was doing its reload animation.  The Evil Smasher glitch, while pretty hilarious and fun, was also game breaking.  Anyone with an Evil Smasher and an Infinity Pistol could pretty much make themselves an unstoppable bullet spraying monster.  If they had left that glitch in place with the recent level cap increase, the entire point of having an extremely difficult 3rd playthrough and end game would have been broken, as you could easily walk through the whole 3rd run without issue.  I used to use the Evil Smasher glitch to walk my friends' new characters through the 1st and 2nd playthrough so they could get to the end game stuff without playing the story over and over and over again.

Subby here.  I don't have a problem with the Bee shield and ES fix.  In fact they've made the game better.  What I was referring to was the Seraph store,  raid boss drops and some of the class mods.  It's bad enough that the tougher enemies are already bullet sponges, but cutting back on the weapons, shields and mods that bosses drop(and making certain Seraph weapons raid boss drops only) has made the after endgame a long, boring chore.  I occasionally play with some pretty hardcore farmers and even they are frustrated with the direction things are going.  Gearbox has been gradually nudging the game into a "World of Borderlands" direction and it's sucking the fun out of it.


I dunno; drops of Oranges and Pearls in UVHM seem to be fairly common, including from non-raid bosses.  The drop rate seems much improved for Oranges over TVHM. There were no changes to any class mods I am aware of.  Removing the Seraph weapons from the store was kind of dumb, but you have to kill raid bosses to get the Crystals in the first place (and they only drop 5-10 Crystals when a weapon costs 120), so this actually makes those weapons easier to get now that they drop one every time you kill them.
 
2013-05-02 04:03:17 PM

GloomCookie613: mooseyfate: Just came in to say that despite my dislike of the Borderlands series, Claptrap is hilarious in Poker Night 2. Little shiat-talking bastard.

I'm loving PN:2!

"I'm going all in. Like I did with your mom last night... turns out she's a really good poker player."


"If I had a hand like that, it'd look real funny at the end of my dog arm!"
 
2013-05-02 04:04:33 PM

frepnog: mooseyfate: Just came in to say that despite my dislike of the Borderlands series, Claptrap is hilarious in Poker Night 2. Little shiat-talking bastard.

stopped by a friend's house the other day, and he was playing that game.  I was quite pleased to discover that you can play poker with Ash from Army of Darkness.


I had a nerdgasm when Ash says "What would Chuck Finley do..."
 
2013-05-02 04:05:26 PM

Vaneshi: scottydoesntknow: I've modded quite a few of my 360 games, but there's no way I would do that on a game that connects to their servers.

What about on the PC?  That doesn't use Microsoft's or indeed Gearbox's servers at all.


Sorry. I forgot anyone played this on consoles. I'm not one of 'those' people! Just all my friends played it on PC so I did too.

Forgot it was a console game. So, ya, uh, no modding on consoles. Bad idea. I meant only on PC.
 
2013-05-02 04:06:20 PM

Lumbar Puncture: frepnog: mooseyfate: Just came in to say that despite my dislike of the Borderlands series, Claptrap is hilarious in Poker Night 2. Little shiat-talking bastard.

stopped by a friend's house the other day, and he was playing that game.  I was quite pleased to discover that you can play poker with Ash from Army of Darkness.

Not voiced by Bruce Campbell, but they got a decent replacement.


Indeed. He sounds exactly like Bruce did in his mid-20's.
 
2013-05-02 04:10:12 PM

RoxtarRyan: Tough call. On one hand, Gearbox, if I understand the story correctly, completely misused funds for this game for their own products, and really, should be held liable for that. But people suing because they bought a shiatty game? That sets a precedent that will come back to haunt a LOT of companies, and may even drive smaller, independent companies to re-think whether or not their game they actually put hard work into is worth putting out, in case other people won't like it and will sue them.


I don't think the issue is so much the crappiness of the game so much as the wide variance between what was advertised as "in-game footage" versus what customers actually got. Some games are just terrible games (Simcity, I'm looking at you), but Aliens:CM went the extra step by having fake game footage misrepresenting the product.
 
2013-05-02 04:16:30 PM

scottydoesntknow: I thought Dragon Age 2 was a shiatty game, but advertising didn't mislead me on that. I just had really lofty expectations for it and that was more my fault


I've always thought Dragon Age 2 suffered from "Ghostbusters 2 syndrome".  Taken on it's own merits, it's a perfectly fine product.  But it had the misfortune of trying to live up to the lofty expectations set by it's predecessor.
 
2013-05-02 04:19:15 PM

Neondistraction: scottydoesntknow: I thought Dragon Age 2 was a shiatty game, but advertising didn't mislead me on that. I just had really lofty expectations for it and that was more my fault

I've always thought Dragon Age 2 suffered from "Ghostbusters 2 syndrome".  Taken on it's own merits, it's a perfectly fine product.  But it had the misfortune of trying to live up to the lofty expectations set by it's predecessor.


Yep. As a stand-alone title it would've been awesome, but compared to Origins it was lacking in every way except the improvements to combat.
 
2013-05-02 04:24:14 PM

firefly212: RoxtarRyan: Tough call. On one hand, Gearbox, if I understand the story correctly, completely misused funds for this game for their own products, and really, should be held liable for that. But people suing because they bought a shiatty game? That sets a precedent that will come back to haunt a LOT of companies, and may even drive smaller, independent companies to re-think whether or not their game they actually put hard work into is worth putting out, in case other people won't like it and will sue them.

I don't think the issue is so much the crappiness of the game so much as the wide variance between what was advertised as "in-game footage" versus what customers actually got. Some games are just terrible games (Simcity, I'm looking at you), but Aliens:CM went the extra step by having fake game footage misrepresenting the product.


Conceded the point of marketing. Hell, if anything, I'm shocked there was no class-action suit against EA for selling a game, and people not being able to play it for what, a couple weeks, and when they did it was a watered-down version of what it was supposed to be because they had to strip away features in order for it to work? Fark that, $60 is a lot of money to some people, that could be used on better things, or at least things that worked out of the box. Or Sony, for having their servers get hacked and not being able to use the PSN for nearly a month, crippling playing new games, or even blu-rays.

To use the old saying, "let the free market sort it out". Companies from here on in are going to give a LOT of second thoughts about giving Gearbox millions of dollars to work on a game, people have straight out boycotted EA (I did that myself, but only cause the DLC for Dead Space 3 was goddamn farking awful, $10 for an extra hour of re-hashed gameplay with nothing at all new to offer), and no doubt a lot of 360s were sold when Sony couldn't get their servers online. Only problem with that is the "free market" tends to have the memory of a goldfish when it comes to being screwed over by companies, with all being forgiven the next time a flashy new product is sold. And again, people will get burned, complain, boycott, new flashy thing gets made, and repeat.
 
2013-05-02 04:28:11 PM

king of vegas: I played Borderlands 2 through two playthroughs up to level 50 on a Gunzerzer, and one whole playthrough plus some up to Level 34 on Axton and I never saw the Bee Shield or the special gun that's supposed to work well with the Bee shield. I even tried killing the big monster over and over a few times.


The Bee Shield is a designated drop from Hunter Hellquist (he's the guy who broadcasts the Hyperion propoganda from the This Just In news stand).  He drops it maybe 5-10% of the time but is an easy farm; you can get it within an hour or two of farming him guaranteed.  It also can be found randomly from any chest or enemy, but very rarely.

The Infinity (which has unlimited ammo, never needs reloading, and has a high rate of fire) does not have a designated boss that drops it.  Well, it does (Doc Mercy), it's just there's a bug and he never actually drops it beyond the first playthrough (IE, he only drops low level versions when the player is also low level).  Higher level versions can only be found randomly, making it very hard to get.  Many people use a save editor to create one or dup existing ones via the fairly simple method of dropping one in a multiplayer game then Alt-F4ing before it saves your character (so somebody else in the game gets one and you keep yours).

The Bee works so well with the Infinity because every shot you fire while wearing it when it's fully charged adds a set amount of damage per shot.  There are lower level shields with the same property (called Amp Shields), but they drain the shield by a set amount after each shot; the Bee has a drain of zero and so can be used as long as it takes no damage.  At Level 61, each shot from the Infinity does something like 25k of damage; the Bee adds something like 150k to that (there are variants of both that do different amounts of damage).  AND, if you wear the Sheriff's Badge Relic, that boosts the fire rate by 50% and the base damage (the 25k) by 22%.

Of course, all of this wasn't good enough for some people; hence the Evil Smasher glitch.  The Evil Smasher is a fairly lousy gun that, when reloaded, had a small, random chance to become fairly powerful for one magazine's worth.  The glitch involved transfering said boost to the Infinity pistol instead (which never needs reloading so the boost lasts forever, and I think you could do it multiple times to increase the boost to stupid levels).

The final boss of the main storyline (The Warrior) usually (75% chance or so) gives you an Orange the first time you kill him (via the "moonshot") but usually nothing useful after later kills.
 
2013-05-02 04:32:25 PM

RoxtarRyan: Tough call. On one hand, Gearbox, if I understand the story correctly, completely misused funds for this game for their own products, and really, should be held liable for that. But people suing because they bought a shiatty game? That sets a precedent that will come back to haunt a LOT of companies, and may even drive smaller, independent companies to re-think whether or not their game they actually put hard work into is worth putting out, in case other people won't like it and will sue them.


And really, even, why stop at games?  Movie night sucked?  Sue.  Last album you bought sucked?  Sue.  Don't like that book?  Sue.  I agree this sets a bad precedent.  Don't all demo's have that "not necessarily indicative of final product" disclaimer anyway?
 
2013-05-02 04:35:52 PM

Sgt Otter: RoxtarRyan: scottydoesntknow: The fact that they put an embargo on reviews until release day shows they knew it was a shiatty product and wanted to delay the negative feedback as much as possible.

Kind of like how movie studios won't let people review their movie before it hits theaters!

This is a little different than hiding a bad product from critics

It would be like Iron Man 3 having Robert Downey, Jr. in the trailers, and then the actual film having Morton Downey, Jr. in it.


That would actually be farking hysterical.  I would watch the hell out of that movie.
 
2013-05-02 04:39:34 PM

Lumbar Puncture: Not voiced by Bruce Campbell, but they got a decent replacement.


Damn, I'll say.  Played that game an hour a night the last 4 nights and had no idea it wasn't him.
 
2013-05-02 04:45:18 PM

extroverted_suicide: RoxtarRyan: Tough call. On one hand, Gearbox, if I understand the story correctly, completely misused funds for this game for their own products, and really, should be held liable for that. But people suing because they bought a shiatty game? That sets a precedent that will come back to haunt a LOT of companies, and may even drive smaller, independent companies to re-think whether or not their game they actually put hard work into is worth putting out, in case other people won't like it and will sue them.

And really, even, why stop at games?  Movie night sucked?  Sue.  Last album you bought sucked?  Sue.  Don't like that book?  Sue.  I agree this sets a bad precedent.  Don't all demo's have that "not necessarily indicative of final product" disclaimer anyway?


I think part of the issue is I think that they were still using footage from the old demos in commercials that aired once the game was already out.

Suing is silly, though.
 
2013-05-02 04:51:00 PM

extroverted_suicide: Don't all demo's have that "not necessarily indicative of final product" disclaimer anyway?


Except that was one of the biggest issues. Gearbox/Pitchford said multiple times during expos and demos that this was in-game footage they were using.

This would be like saying movie night sucked because you bought "Thor" on DVD, and ended up with Asylum's "Almighty Thor" inside. Like purchasing the Beatles White album and hearing Justin Beiber instead of The Beatles. Like buying the latest thriller novel, opening it up and finding it's actually Twilight.
 
2013-05-02 05:11:23 PM

RoxtarRyan: Tough call. On one hand, Gearbox, if I understand the story correctly, completely misused funds for this game for their own products, and really, should be held liable for that. But people suing because they bought a shiatty game? That sets a precedent that will come back to haunt a LOT of companies, and may even drive smaller, independent companies to re-think whether or not their game they actually put hard work into is worth putting out, in case other people won't like it and will sue them.


I think this should be considered a bud-nipping situation.  It's becoming more and more common to provide enticements for people to pre-purchase games long before they're released.  Steam's had multiple games with "pre-purchase unlocks" or discounts.  If X copies are sold before launch, everyone gets A.  If XX copies are sold, everyone gets AB.  If XXX copies are sold, everyone gets ABC.  So if a game is sold with these pre-purchase incentives and reviews are embargoed until the pre-purchase window is closed, people only have the pre-launch materials to use to judge whether they want the product.  It seems pretty clear that the pre-launch material used to represent the latest Aliens game was not representative of the actual product.

If a company spends months saying, "This is actual gameplay footage" and it's  not, they need to be held accountable.  People are relying on their representation of the product and they lied about the product.  As pre-purchasing and kickstarter funding become more common, companies need to be very careful to represent their products and progress accurately.
 
2013-05-02 05:27:44 PM
Here is what the problem is. You can see a vast difference between the demo and final version.

It's like they went out of their way to make the game worse.

Here's how the class action suit will go down.

The suit rep will get like 3-5k dollars. Everyone who bought the game will get a coupon toward the purchase of their next gearbox game. (5-25 bucks) and the lawyers will get about 2.5 million dollars plus expenses
 
2013-05-02 05:35:59 PM

extroverted_suicide: Lumbar Puncture: Not voiced by Bruce Campbell, but they got a decent replacement.

Damn, I'll say.  Played that game an hour a night the last 4 nights and had no idea it wasn't him.


I heard it right away, but it's close enough that it's not a big deal and everything else fits with the character, even the gung ho style of betting.  Love all the little in jokes and stories.
 
2013-05-02 05:45:50 PM

MythDragon: Here is what the problem is. You can see a vast difference between the demo and final version.


Wow. They really farked up the fire animations. That looks kinda crappy.
 
2013-05-02 05:54:38 PM

Geotpf: Suing is silly, though.



Why?  You can't return it.  The product isn't as advertised.  What other recourse would someone have to get their money back?  The company has told you to go fark yourself..

And no, dropping the console version off and getting 10% of the cover price back doesn't count as "a refund".

I'd take them for breach of contract, especially as contracts can not legally be one sided.  They'd settle out of court pretty sharpish over that just like Microsoft did.
 
2013-05-02 05:56:18 PM

Neondistraction: scottydoesntknow: I thought Dragon Age 2 was a shiatty game, but advertising didn't mislead me on that. I just had really lofty expectations for it and that was more my fault

I've always thought Dragon Age 2 suffered from "Ghostbusters 2 syndrome".  Taken on it's own merits, it's a perfectly fine product.  But it had the misfortune of trying to live up to the lofty expectations set by it's predecessor.


It's terrible.  Very limited environments, limited combat/skill options, some bad characterization/nonsensical moments, etc.  At best, it's average.  As a sequel, it was atrocious.
 
2013-05-02 06:07:54 PM

Lumbar Puncture: extroverted_suicide: Lumbar Puncture: Not voiced by Bruce Campbell, but they got a decent replacement.

Damn, I'll say.  Played that game an hour a night the last 4 nights and had no idea it wasn't him.

I heard it right away, but it's close enough that it's not a big deal and everything else fits with the character, even the gung ho style of betting.  Love all the little in jokes and stories.


Ash and Claptrap are always the ones I got worry about busting me out early. Brock is a dangerous bluffer, and Sam is a smart player, usually the last one at the table. At least that's been my experience so far. And the exchanges between Brock and Ash crack me up the most, though. Two macho dudes trying to out-macho each other. Classic.
 
2013-05-02 09:50:27 PM

RoxtarRyan: firefly212: RoxtarRyan: Tough call. On one hand, Gearbox, if I understand the story correctly, completely misused funds for this game for their own products, and really, should be held liable for that. But people suing because they bought a shiatty game? That sets a precedent that will come back to haunt a LOT of companies, and may even drive smaller, independent companies to re-think whether or not their game they actually put hard work into is worth putting out, in case other people won't like it and will sue them.

I don't think the issue is so much the crappiness of the game so much as the wide variance between what was advertised as "in-game footage" versus what customers actually got. Some games are just terrible games (Simcity, I'm looking at you), but Aliens:CM went the extra step by having fake game footage misrepresenting the product.

Conceded the point of marketing. Hell, if anything, I'm shocked there was no class-action suit against EA for selling a game, and people not being able to play it for what, a couple weeks, and when they did it was a watered-down version of what it was supposed to be because they had to strip away features in order for it to work? Fark that, $60 is a lot of money to some people, that could be used on better things, or at least things that worked out of the box. Or Sony, for having their servers get hacked and not being able to use the PSN for nearly a month, crippling playing new games, or even blu-rays.

To use the old saying, "let the free market sort it out". Companies from here on in are going to give a LOT of second thoughts about giving Gearbox millions of dollars to work on a game, people have straight out boycotted EA (I did that myself, but only cause the DLC for Dead Space 3 was goddamn farking awful, $10 for an extra hour of re-hashed gameplay with nothing at all new to offer), and no doubt a lot of 360s were sold when Sony couldn't get their servers online. Only problem with that is the "free market" tends to have ...


The free market depends on information symmetry, fraud like that undertaken by Gearbox in particular, their particular intent being to skew information symmetry such that customers thought they were buying one thing when producers thought they were making something entirely different... that's not part of the free markets that Adam Smith and the other founders of capitalism talked about.
 
2013-05-02 10:43:20 PM

Antimatter: It's terrible. Very limited environments, limited combat/skill options, some bad characterization/nonsensical moments, etc. At best, it's average. As a sequel, it was atrocious.


I'll give you the point on limited environments.  They got a bit lazy and repetitive with the maps.  But skill and combat options were anything but limited.  The skill trees were expanded compared to the original, if anything.  Totally different interface, yeah, but the combat trees were just as robust.  I guess they did remove the non-combat skill page, but honestly I found that more tedious than anything else, and most of those skills are still there, you just don't have to train for them. And while at first glance it seems like your class options have been limited, they really haven't.  You're stuck playing a human character, yes, but the three class roles (rouge, warrior, mage) are the the exact same as the first game, right down to the sub-classes.  The only difference is the combat moves at a faster pace and the default difficulty is easier.

They really shouldn't have called it Dragon Age 2 though, because it's not really a sequel.  It has nothing to do with the first game apart from being set in the same world and some references to events in the first game.
 
2013-05-03 08:05:37 AM
I bought it cheap the other week and I'm thoroughly enjoying it. The big patch it downloaded straight away seems to have sorted out the AI which was so savaged in reviews. I wasn't aware of the demo footage hullabaloo until a couple of days ago and yes, that demo is amazing and totally not what I bought but the game is still solid. Getting to stomp around Hadley's Hope was great.
 
2013-05-03 05:14:15 PM

Geotpf: Now, I'm personally annoyed that they removed the Storage Bank glitch (there was an easy to use glitch that allowed you to store infinite amounts of stuff in the Storage Bank). Now, this was needed to cover up a blatant design flaw-the amount of storage (in a looting game!) is incredibility small.


It's this, as well as the update that limited some Seraph weapons to dropping only from raid bosses.

Alright, for those of you who don't play BL2: Seraph items are a special class of weapons, sort of a pseudo-Legendary, which exist only in the DLC.  Originally you could only obtain them either by randomly getting one from a raid boss (difficult enough to require four players to beat), or by purchasing them from the Seraph Vendor located in each DLC, who only accepted Seraph Crystals for payment.  Seraph Crystals are, of course, only dropped by killing raid bosses, but the advantage is that when one person collects one, everyone gets one a well.  Effectively they are the shared reward for everyone teaming up and taking down a raid boss.  You don't have to worry about someone stealing your rewards because everyone gets them.  No squabbling over loot rights, you just build up your crystals and go buy what you want later.

That is, you DID.  In the latest patch Gearbox decided to make a bunch of Seraph weapons (all the good ones) limited to only being available as drops, thus defeating the entire purpose of Seraph items and Seraph Guardian raid bosses.  Keep in mind these items only drop from bosses who require four people to fight (unless you're highly skilled), only drop one at a time, and the drop chance is incredibly low.  Before you could team up with some random people in a public game and get your rewards.  Now, the minute that Seraph drops someone is either going to steal it or the host is going to kick you.  Yes, people really are that dickish in public games.

Really though, the bank glitch fix was freakin' crap.  More accurately, it was fixing it without giving us a legitimate method of bank expansion to replace it.  At current capacity you cannot even store a full set of legendary items, much less adding in Seraphs and Uniques.  This is bullshiat considering that the entire endgame is based around gathering loot.  Often it takes days to farm a legendary off of a boss (drop rates are super low) and then you're expected to play Sophie's Choice once you hit max bank capacity.  Well, thanks but no f%$#ing thanks, I don't think I'm going to play a scavenger hunt game where you have to throw out old stuff to get new stuff.  I'm not opposed to having to earn more bank slots a few at a time, but the glitch demonstrated CONCLUSIVELY that there is no reason the bank cannot be expanded to a capacity in the hundreds.  Artificially limiting my non-immediate storage space is just un-fun, and really discourages me from doing any collecting at all.

The bank glitch fix was the latest un-fun design decision in a long list of un-fun design decisions, and it just happened to be the one that made me want to quit playing the game.  I don't feel like hammering my face into the same boss over and over and over for days at a time just to get one legendary, only for it to drop at a low level or with bad parts or even if those aren't true for me to have to kick something else out of my bank just to keep it, and I really don't think the new "difficulty = 1000% HP" mode is particularly enjoyable.  I want a fun and engaging game, not a grueling un-fun slog.


Okay, so that rant out of the way, as to the lawsuit: it may have merit.  This isn't people suing over buying a crappy game, this is people suing because they bought the game based (in part) on video that was claimed to be undoctored in-game footage, then received a product that was vastly inferior.  Not only that, you can do a side-by-side comparison of the same sequences in the trailer and the game and see that things must have been post-processed to hell in the trailer.
 
2013-05-03 05:50:39 PM

RoxtarRyan: Now, if they actually showed commercials for the product and it had test demo footage or alpha footage in there and it didn't say otherwise, THAT would be misleading.


That is exactly what they did in this case.  They issued trailers and claimed it was "in-game footage", but the final shipped product simply does not have many of the rendering features (dynamic lighting, volumetric clouds, etc.) that the trailers showed.  Check youtube: there are several side-by-side comparisons of in-game footage from a PC with everything set to max and the trailer, and the in-game video looks like utter crap.

mooseyfate: Just came in to say that despite my dislike of the Borderlands series, Claptrap is hilarious in Poker Night 2. Little shiat-talking bastard.


While I have lost interest in the game from a gameplay standpoint, the writing on it has always been hilarious.  Look up some Let's Play videos for the Torgue DLC, because I have rarely laughed that hard so many times while playing a video game.

Flappyhead: Subby here. I don't have a problem with the Bee shield and ES fix. In fact they've made the game better. What I was referring to was the Seraph store, raid boss drops and some of the class mods. It's bad enough that the tougher enemies are already bullet sponges, but cutting back on the weapons, shields and mods that bosses drop(and making certain Seraph weapons raid boss drops only) has made the after endgame a long, boring chore. I occasionally play with some pretty hardcore farmers and even they are frustrated with the direction things are going. Gearbox has been gradually nudging the game into a "World of Borderlands" direction and it's sucking the fun out of it.


Not sure if you ever check the official Gearbox BL2 forums, but one of the phrases that goes around there a lot are variations of "the devs are treating BL2 like a Korean MMO".  The low drop rates and monotonous grind are just getting worse, not better... but I've already data-dumped my rant above.  I agree though, the game is getting horribly un-fun.

Mr. Fuzzypaws: Bank and backpack space would freeze some peoples' systems so it had to be fixed.


There are no confirmed instances of this, period.  The only negative effect bank overloading had was blocking interaction for a few seconds to a minute while inventory loads, caused solely by the game insisting on bubblesorting the full list before it gives you your controls back.  It didn't have to be fixed; people who overloaded their banks knew what they were getting into, and more importantly knew how to undo it should it prove to be too much.

For some reason, Gearbox thinks "choose which legendary you love more and lose the other forever" is fun.  It's not, certainly not in a game where the entire objective after completing the main campaign is "kill stuff and grab loot".

Dimensio: The ability to perform a Pacifist Run is not itself demonstrative of poor design quality.


A Pacifist Run being easier than actually playing the game as intended IS an indicator of poor design quality, however.

kroonermanblack: Is there not a more universal trainer or something out there that can just fix your drop rates etc? It's a single player game, not a mmo, so why not just mod it?


I've been asked this a lot, and my answer is that it's not about being unable to fix the problem, it's about how the devs seem to be actively trying to make the game less fun.  I don't care that I could use Cheat Engine to fix the drop rates or expand my bank to infinity or make all my weapons one-hit kills.  As the saying goes, if my Aunt had balls she'd be my Uncle.  Why should I spend time on a game that is going out of its way to suck the fun out of itself when I could just play one of the hundreds of other games I own that are quite enjoyable without having to cheat?

extroverted_suicide: And really, even, why stop at games? Movie night sucked? Sue. Last album you bought sucked? Sue. Don't like that book? Sue. I agree this sets a bad precedent. Don't all demo's have that "not necessarily indicative of final product" disclaimer anyway?


As has been said many times, this one didn't.  The trailer was advertised, repeatedly, as featuring actual in-game footage.
 
2013-05-03 07:42:54 PM

yukichigai: While I have lost interest in the game from a gameplay standpoint, the writing on it has always been hilarious.  Look up some Let's Play videos for the Torgue DLC, because I have rarely laughed that hard so many times while playing a video game.


Nah.  I'll pass.  I never faulted the game for not having a sense of humor.  It certainly does.  Hell, it even had some likable characters.  As a whole, though...no thanks.  There are plenty of humorous AND good (if not great) games out right now and from years past.
 
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