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(Time)   Interviews with 78 Taliban fighters show that the US is screwed, Karzai is screwed, and Afghan women are especially screwed   (nation.time.com) divider line 307
    More: Obvious, Taliban, Hamid Karzai, Afghans, Taliban regime, insurgents, Afghan government  
•       •       •

19602 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 May 2013 at 12:54 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-02 12:57:54 PM  
Electricity, fast food, electronics, and porn.

That's what these people need.
 
2013-05-02 12:58:37 PM  
G.T.F.O.

i.stack.imgur.com1.bp.blogspot.com
/It's the only way to be sure.
 
2013-05-02 12:58:51 PM  
You mean our decades-long strategy of giving billions of dollars to their ideological masters, and billions more to their neighboring safe haven, has failed?

I'm shocked.
 
2013-05-02 12:59:32 PM  
burning down Tokyo, nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki were bad... but we also re educated them from thinking that the emperor was an infallible divine descendant of amaterasu.

I'm all for educating Afghan women, but they aren't the problem.
 
2013-05-02 01:00:17 PM  
Clearly, Pakistan is not simply a safe haven to which the Taliban retreat at the end of the summer "fighting season."  Indeed, almost all interviewees have no need to do so, given that they can winter much closer to home.  Rather, Pakistan is far more important as a location for key insurgent activities to be conducted in relative safety.  This includes such vital activities as resupply, training and to plan future operations.  These findings reinforce our understanding of the critical importance of the Pakistan as a safe haven for the Taliban and why it must therefore be denied to the Taliban if they are to be defeated or at a minimum forced to reconcile with the Afghan Government.

You know who else used Pakistan as a safe haven?

/Thanks, Pakistan. You learned your treachery from the treacheriest treacherers who ever treachered a treach...the British Empire. But, please, let it go. Before you blow up the farking world trying to decide the color of God's eyes.
 
2013-05-02 01:00:20 PM  
Dont worry the next time in Iran it will work!
 
2013-05-02 01:00:44 PM  
All cultures are equal!  We can't judge!
 
2013-05-02 01:00:51 PM  

PunGent: You mean our decades-long strategy of giving billions of dollars to their ideological masters, and billions more to their neighboring safe haven, has failed?

I'm shocked.


WE NEED

i1086.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-02 01:00:56 PM  

PunGent: You mean our decades-long strategy of giving billions of dollars to their ideological masters, and billions more to their neighboring safe haven, has failed?

I'm shocked.


Give it time... Has it every come back to us before?
 
2013-05-02 01:01:23 PM  

PunGent: You mean our decades-long strategy of giving billions of dollars to their ideological masters, and billions more to their neighboring safe haven, has failed?

I'm shocked.


Clearly the solution is to send more money!
 
2013-05-02 01:01:29 PM  
Nothing bad can come from an extended military engagement in a place with a nickname like "the Graveyard of Empires".
 
2013-05-02 01:01:47 PM  
screwed

...and the little boys. And the goats.

/it's the Taliban way
 
2013-05-02 01:02:17 PM  
what about the afgan boys? I bet they are really screwed too.
 
2013-05-02 01:02:42 PM  
Implacable opposition to Western presence, values, and influence over the Afghan government, as well as the perceived severe shortcomings of the Afghan Government itself, are clearly the primary factors that motivate the fighters interviewed for this project.  While they may have been motivated by diverse factors to join their group, they continue to engage in the insurgency on the side of the Taliban or the Hizb-i-Islami for broadly the same reasons. They are committed to remove foreign forces and influence and to restore a more traditional and strictly Islamic form of governance in Afghanistan.  Most interviewees believe that the presence of foreign forces in Afghanistan (almost universally identified as Americans) results in the type of political and social ills they do not want.

Well, a little more intervention by the US should fix that right up.
 
2013-05-02 01:03:09 PM  
Q: How do you unite the Afghan people?

A: Invade them.
 
2013-05-02 01:03:10 PM  
What kind of psychopathic farkwit is so opposed to girl getting an education that they're willing to kill any who try?  These kind of people have pretty much given up any right to share the planet with progressive, civilised societies.
 
2013-05-02 01:04:02 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Electricity, fast food, electronics, and porn.

That's what these people need.


Education, jobs and contraceptives. Angry young men are a lot less angry when they have paycheques and sex.
 
2013-05-02 01:04:14 PM  
So the results of the survey are that taliban members are subhuman filth who will kill anyone who tries to reside in Afghanistan, be they Afghans, Russians, Saudis, etc. The only way to return Afghanistan to the modern world is to seek out and kill every single one of them with such force so that they do not have time to recruit and refill their ranks.

It also was kind of funny that they claimed in the survey that they were all Afghans, when in reality we know many/most of them are Iranian, Pakistani, Egyptian, Chechnyan, etc.
 
2013-05-02 01:04:23 PM  
The British learned in the 1800s and the Russians in the 1980s that Afghanistan is an ungovernable clusterfark.
 
2013-05-02 01:05:31 PM  
Taliban banana

Daylight come, and me wanna go home.
 
2013-05-02 01:06:31 PM  
So the alternative is, what? Run away and wait for the next skyscraper or marathon to go BOOM?
 
2013-05-02 01:06:44 PM  

PunGent: You mean our decades-long strategy of giving billions of dollars to their ideological masters, and billions more to their neighboring safe haven, has failed?

I'm shocked.


Which is worse, Pakistan as a safe haven for the Taliban or the Taliban killing off the Pakistani government and taking their nukes?


Just because the outcome of one action isn't pretty doesn't mean the outcome of the opposing action is any better.

The real problem is that Pakistan isn't afraid of the USA because of pacifist protestors and whatnot.
 
2013-05-02 01:09:06 PM  
You cannot 'cure' what ails Afghanistan. The Taliban is a symptom of a wider problem with the region; the Taliban itself not the cause of it. Even if we did destroy their organization, someone else will rise up in their place. Religious fanaticism has poisoned their society, and change can only come from within. It's a shame to abandon all the Afghani women to such a fate, but there is literally nothing we can do for them in the long term. Attempts to force change spurs a backlash that is often counterproductive to the original goal
 
2013-05-02 01:09:16 PM  

odinsposse: Implacable opposition to Western presence, values, and influence over the Afghan government, as well as the perceived severe shortcomings of the Afghan Government itself, are clearly the primary factors that motivate the fighters interviewed for this project.  While they may have been motivated by diverse factors to join their group, they continue to engage in the insurgency on the side of the Taliban or the Hizb-i-Islami for broadly the same reasons. They are committed to remove foreign forces and influence and to restore a more traditional and strictly Islamic form of governance in Afghanistan.  Most interviewees believe that the presence of foreign forces in Afghanistan (almost universally identified as Americans) results in the type of political and social ills they do not want.

Well, a little more intervention by the US should fix that right up.


Here's what Afghanistan looked like until presidents like Clinton cut funding:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/05/27/once_upon_a_time_in _a fghanistan
 
2013-05-02 01:09:43 PM  
Huh, it is good to see this kind of research being carried out. This sort of intel is what can be used to identify the *why*, and undermine the drivers behind their desire to do what they do.

That, and jobs - I swear a day job is all that keeps me from rebelling against Congress whenever they do something incredibly retarded, which is most of the time. Yay apathy and comfort.
 
2013-05-02 01:10:42 PM  

FARK rebel soldier: screwed

...and the little boys. And the goats.

/it's the Taliban way


yep
 
2013-05-02 01:11:22 PM  

TV's Vinnie: So the alternative is, what? Run away and wait for the next skyscraper or marathon to go BOOM?


That would only save us thousands of lives and billions of dollars. So it's clearly the crazy option.
 
2013-05-02 01:11:42 PM  

Old_Chief_Scott: Q: How do you unite the Afghan people?

A: Invade them.


Exactly. We should just install a Shah!
 
2013-05-02 01:11:50 PM  

tortilla burger: You cannot 'cure' what ails Afghanistan. The Taliban is a symptom of a wider problem with the region; the Taliban itself not the cause of it. Even if we did destroy their organization, someone else will rise up in their place. Religious fanaticism has poisoned their society, and change can only come from within. It's a shame to abandon all the Afghani women to such a fate, but there is literally nothing we can do for them in the long term. Attempts to force change spurs a backlash that is often counterproductive to the original goal


I generally agree with you, but you left off the conclusion.

If everything you said is true, the only option is to nuke them until they're all dead.
 
2013-05-02 01:11:57 PM  
Rather, they are ordinary men motivated to fight against those who they feel are destroying their way of life and attacking their values, community and faith.

So, Fox news's target audience.
 
2013-05-02 01:13:22 PM  

odinsposse: TV's Vinnie: So the alternative is, what? Run away and wait for the next skyscraper or marathon to go BOOM?

That would only save us thousands of lives and billions of dollars. So it's clearly the crazy option.


I'd add the note about Saudi's being involved in 9/11, but that shiat is verboten.
 
2013-05-02 01:13:26 PM  
So, I feel kind of bad for the Iraqis.  I'd hate to hear about their country collapsing into anarchy.  I don't know any Iraqis at all, but as far as I can tell, their people, even under Saddam Hussein, were mostly fairly moderate and a secular culture (for the Middle East).  Again even under Saddam's watch, they all had a fair amount of contact with the West. And I think like anyone else, I don't think their personal values or goals are much different than us.

Afgahnistan OTOH, except for a brief period after independence, seems to have always been operating as a sort of warlike culture and very nomadic tribesman level of civilization.  Western ideas or values seem to have no influence on them.

And while I'm sure its not everyone, it does seem like a lot of them would like the West to piss off and for their country to return back to their nutty form of Islamic fundamentalist ways.   They seem to have fought off every single "invader" from various Indian empires, to the Brits, Russians and now us.

Maybe its time to just leave.  Let them do whatever the hell they like.  And let whatever Afghanis who supported us to come back with us to resettle...  I dunno... someplace in Michigan or Northern Wisconsin.


I
 
2013-05-02 01:13:49 PM  
Sadly, the only way to ever eliminate their absurdly backwards ways are to kill everyone who is that backwards and let the progressives of their societies take over.  As this isn't feasible in our modern western societies, fundamentalism in all its guises will continue to spread worldwide.
 
2013-05-02 01:15:21 PM  

SirEattonHogg: So, I feel kind of bad for the Iraqis.  I'd hate to hear about their country collapsing into anarchy.  I don't know any Iraqis at all, but as far as I can tell, their people, even under Saddam Hussein, were mostly fairly moderate and a secular culture (for the Middle East).  Again even under Saddam's watch, they all had a fair amount of contact with the West. And I think like anyone else, I don't think their personal values or goals are much different than us.

Afgahnistan OTOH, except for a brief period after independence, seems to have always been operating as a sort of warlike culture and very nomadic tribesman level of civilization.  Western ideas or values seem to have no influence on them.

And while I'm sure its not everyone, it does seem like a lot of them would like the West to piss off and for their country to return back to their nutty form of Islamic fundamentalist ways.   They seem to have fought off every single "invader" from various Indian empires, to the Brits, Russians and now us.

Maybe its time to just leave.  Let them do whatever the hell they like.  And let whatever Afghanis who supported us to come back with us to resettle...  I dunno... someplace in Michigan or Northern Wisconsin.


I


F*ck you, take them in California.  Our state is fine the way it is.
 
2013-05-02 01:17:21 PM  
As I heard on some (Vietnam war) movie:

How do you defeat a man who is happy eating rats and rice?
 
2013-05-02 01:17:23 PM  
Kidnap all their women and allow them to live in peace.  Their men will die out in a generation.
 
2013-05-02 01:17:34 PM  

Bullseyed: odinsposse: Implacable opposition to Western presence, values, and influence over the Afghan government, as well as the perceived severe shortcomings of the Afghan Government itself, are clearly the primary factors that motivate the fighters interviewed for this project.  While they may have been motivated by diverse factors to join their group, they continue to engage in the insurgency on the side of the Taliban or the Hizb-i-Islami for broadly the same reasons. They are committed to remove foreign forces and influence and to restore a more traditional and strictly Islamic form of governance in Afghanistan.  Most interviewees believe that the presence of foreign forces in Afghanistan (almost universally identified as Americans) results in the type of political and social ills they do not want.

Well, a little more intervention by the US should fix that right up.

Here's what Afghanistan looked like until presidents like Clinton cut funding:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/05/27/once_upon_a_time_in _a fghanistan


Lol. Yes, the wars decades before Clinton are because he cut funding. Remember when Russia invaded Afghanistan and Clinton did nothing?
 
2013-05-02 01:18:38 PM  
Clearly we have only two (diametrically opposite) options in our conflicts(s) with Afghanistan and the wider region: 1) complete disengagement: we leave and stay gone, never again conducting business there, diplomatic or economic. Without Western influence, there will a) be no (or less) reason for further attacks on Western assets, since the goals of the terrorist regime will be achieved (in essence, we let them win, but ONLY on their own territory) and b) the economy will be stunted and remain local, again keeping things in their territory.
OR 2) a scorched-earth approach, in which we eliminate not just the leaders of the regime(s) but essentially all men of fighting age. We would then essentially colonize the lands and admister them for a period of 2-3 generations, during which time attitudes will change permenantly (or backfire, and create eternal hatred of the West; that's always possible, but if we're thorough about eliminating the culture and religion, this shouldn't occur). And, yes, this is genocide, and probably nuclear war, as well. I'm ok with it.
Those are our options. Anything in between, is at best temporary, and at worst, futile.
 
2013-05-02 01:20:09 PM  

Bullseyed: odinsposse: Implacable opposition to Western presence, values, and influence over the Afghan government, as well as the perceived severe shortcomings of the Afghan Government itself, are clearly the primary factors that motivate the fighters interviewed for this project.  While they may have been motivated by diverse factors to join their group, they continue to engage in the insurgency on the side of the Taliban or the Hizb-i-Islami for broadly the same reasons. They are committed to remove foreign forces and influence and to restore a more traditional and strictly Islamic form of governance in Afghanistan.  Most interviewees believe that the presence of foreign forces in Afghanistan (almost universally identified as Americans) results in the type of political and social ills they do not want.

Well, a little more intervention by the US should fix that right up.

Here's what Afghanistan looked like until presidents like Clinton cut funding:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/05/27/once_upon_a_time_in _a fghanistan


FTFA: 1950's and 1960's

Damn those liberal and their liberal time machines!
 
2013-05-02 01:20:16 PM  
Evacuate all the women and children ( leave the goats so they have something to screw ) and see how long they last......maybe a generation......
 
2013-05-02 01:20:44 PM  

Bondith: What kind of psychopathic farkwit is so opposed to girl getting an education that they're willing to kill any who try?  These kind of people have pretty much given up any right to share the planet with progressive, civilised societies.


I think its the fear that when women and the youth recognize there is more going on in the world than they know, they will abandon or worse, rebel against the old traditionalists. Kind of like a 45 year old guy who marries a 19 year old girl and keeps her in the house so that he can minimize her interactions with people her own age.
 
2013-05-02 01:21:05 PM  
See? Those "think tanks" can figure it out eventually if they fark up long enough.
 
2013-05-02 01:21:39 PM  

mediablitz: Bullseyed: odinsposse: Implacable opposition to Western presence, values, and influence over the Afghan government, as well as the perceived severe shortcomings of the Afghan Government itself, are clearly the primary factors that motivate the fighters interviewed for this project.  While they may have been motivated by diverse factors to join their group, they continue to engage in the insurgency on the side of the Taliban or the Hizb-i-Islami for broadly the same reasons. They are committed to remove foreign forces and influence and to restore a more traditional and strictly Islamic form of governance in Afghanistan.  Most interviewees believe that the presence of foreign forces in Afghanistan (almost universally identified as Americans) results in the type of political and social ills they do not want.

Well, a little more intervention by the US should fix that right up.

Here's what Afghanistan looked like until presidents like Clinton cut funding:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/05/27/once_upon_a_time_in _a fghanistan

Lol. Yes, the wars decades before Clinton are because he cut funding. Remember when Russia invaded Afghanistan and Clinton did nothing?


When Russia (well, the USSR) invaded Afghanistan we should have supported Russia, instead of boycotting the damned Olympics. But noooo, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."
 
2013-05-02 01:22:27 PM  

TiredWings: Evacuate all the women and children ( leave the goats so they have something to screw ) and see how long they last......maybe a generation......


According to Darwin, half of the men will grow overies by then so that they can reproduce.

/Life finds a way
 
2013-05-02 01:23:01 PM  
TiredWings: Evacuate all the women and children ( leave the goats so they have something to screw ) and see how long they last......maybe a generation......

Be careful what you wish for

blog.al.com
 
2013-05-02 01:23:06 PM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Clearly, Pakistan is not simply a safe haven to which the Taliban retreat at the end of the summer "fighting season."  Indeed, almost all interviewees have no need to do so, given that they can winter much closer to home.  Rather, Pakistan is far more important as a location for key insurgent activities to be conducted in relative safety.  This includes such vital activities as resupply, training and to plan future operations.  These findings reinforce our understanding of the critical importance of the Pakistan as a safe haven for the Taliban and why it must therefore be denied to the Taliban if they are to be defeated or at a minimum forced to reconcile with the Afghan Government.

You know who else used Pakistan as a safe haven?

/Thanks, Pakistan. You learned your treachery from the treacheriest treacherers who ever treachered a treach...the British Empire. But, please, let it go. Before you blow up the farking world trying to decide the color of God's eyes.


Peccavi.
 
2013-05-02 01:23:17 PM  
http://www.fark.com/users/mediablitz" target="_blank">mediablitz http://www.fark.com/comments/7729813/Interviews-with-78-Taliban-fighte rs-show-that-US-is-screwed-Karzai-is-screwed-Afghan-women-are-especial ly-screwed#c83973220"> http://www.fark.com/comments/7729813/Interviews-with-78-Taliban-fighte rs-show-that-US-is-screwed-Karzai-is-screwed-Afghan-women-are-especial ly-screwed#">Smartesthttp://www.fark.com/comments/7729813/Interviews-w ith-78-Taliban-fighte rs-show-that-US-is-screwed-Karzai-is-screwed-Afghan-women-are-especial ly-screwed#">Funniesthttp://www.fark.com/comments/7729813/Interviews-w ith-78-Taliban-fighte rs-show-that-US-is-screwed-Karzai-is-screwed-Afghan-women-are-especial ly-screwed#c83973220"> http://www.fark.com/comments/7729813/83973220#c83973220">2013-05-02 01:17:34 PM http://www.fark.com/comments/7729813/Interviews-with-78-Taliban-fighte rs-show-that-US-is-screwed-Karzai-is-screwed-Afghan-women-are-especial ly-screwed#c83973220"> http://www.fark.com/comments/7729813/83973029" target="_blank">Bullseyed: odinsposse: Implacable opposition to Western presence, values, and influence over the Afghan government, as well as the perceived severe shortcomings of the Afghan Government itself, are clearly the primary factors that motivate the fighters interviewed for this project. While they may have been motivated by diverse factors to join their group, they continue to engage in the insurgency on the side of the Taliban or the Hizb-i-Islami for broadly the same reasons. They are committed to remove foreign forces and influence and to restore a more traditional and strictly Islamic form of governance in Afghanistan. Most interviewees believe that the presence of foreign forces in Afghanistan (almost universally identified as Americans) results in the type of political and social ills they do not want.

Well, a little more intervention by the US should fix that right up.

Here's what Afghanistan looked like until presidents like Clinton cut funding:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/05/27/once_upon_a_time_in _a fghanistan


Lol. Yes, the wars decades before Clinton are because he cut funding. Remember when Russia invaded Afghanistan and Clinton did nothing?

mediablitz: Bullseyed: odinsposse: Implacable opposition to Western presence, values, and influence over the Afghan government, as well as the perceived severe shortcomings of the Afghan Government itself, are clearly the primary factors that motivate the fighters interviewed for this project.  While they may have been motivated by diverse factors to join their group, they continue to engage in the insurgency on the side of the Taliban or the Hizb-i-Islami for broadly the same reasons. They are committed to remove foreign forces and influence and to restore a more traditional and strictly Islamic form of governance in Afghanistan.  Most interviewees believe that the presence of foreign forces in Afghanistan (almost universally identified as Americans) results in the type of political and social ills they do not want.

Well, a little more intervention by the US should fix that right up.

Here's what Afghanistan looked like until presidents like Clinton cut funding:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/05/27/once_upon_a_time_in _a fghanistan

Lol. Yes, the wars decades before Clinton are because he cut funding. Remember when Russia invaded Afghanistan and Clinton did nothing


and it appears that he did exactly the right thing
 
2013-05-02 01:23:38 PM  

Bullseyed: tortilla burger: You cannot 'cure' what ails Afghanistan. The Taliban is a symptom of a wider problem with the region; the Taliban itself not the cause of it. Even if we did destroy their organization, someone else will rise up in their place. Religious fanaticism has poisoned their society, and change can only come from within. It's a shame to abandon all the Afghani women to such a fate, but there is literally nothing we can do for them in the long term. Attempts to force change spurs a backlash that is often counterproductive to the original goal

I generally agree with you, but you left off the conclusion.

If everything you said is true, the only option is to nuke them until they're all dead.


Brilliant plan. No possible downside to that.
 
2013-05-02 01:25:39 PM  
24.media.tumblr.com

That would be the case for Russia or China.  Not so much for Afghanistan.  So just nuke 'em.
 
2013-05-02 01:26:18 PM  

kazikian: Clearly we have only two (diametrically opposite) options in our conflicts(s) with Afghanistan and the wider region: 1) complete disengagement: we leave and stay gone, never again conducting business there, diplomatic or economic. Without Western influence, there will a) be no (or less) reason for further attacks on Western assets, since the goals of the terrorist regime will be achieved (in essence, we let them win, but ONLY on their own territory) and b) the economy will be stunted and remain local, again keeping things in their territory.
OR 2) a scorched-earth approach, in which we eliminate not just the leaders of the regime(s) but essentially all men of fighting age. We would then essentially colonize the lands and admister them for a period of 2-3 generations, during which time attitudes will change permenantly (or backfire, and create eternal hatred of the West; that's always possible, but if we're thorough about eliminating the culture and religion, this shouldn't occur). And, yes, this is genocide, and probably nuclear war, as well. I'm ok with it.
Those are our options. Anything in between, is at best temporary, and at worst, futile.


Pakistani delenda est
 
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