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(Mother Jones)   We now have the same number of psychiatric beds available as in the 50s. Fark: the 1850s   (motherjones.com) divider line 82
    More: Scary, psychiatric medication, local prison, Children's National Medical Center, psychiatric nurse  
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1229 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 May 2013 at 4:55 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-01 04:42:51 PM  
Do we really need beds? How about just large padded rooms?!
 
2013-05-01 04:59:33 PM  
We were given fark accounts and told not to commute anymore.
 
2013-05-01 05:00:34 PM  
I would pull myself up by my bootstraps but they just turned into snakes and started whispering God's True Word into my ears.

To bad I don't speak Croatian.
 
2013-05-01 05:02:11 PM  

Richard Freckle: We were given fark accounts and told not to commute anymore.


Shut up! You piece of lettuce! I'll kill your hamster! and your shoes!
 
2013-05-01 05:06:33 PM  
It's pretty simple: start building and staffing asylums again. Cheaper in the long run, and better for the worst-off patients.

Of course, that means that a bunch of people lose face over the last five decades of "give them pills and hope they take them, it's more humane."
 
2013-05-01 05:07:02 PM  
Lemme also point out that the amount we've cut in the past three years ($4.35 billion) is enough to buy just over 13 F-35 JSF fighter planes, or about a third of a new Ford class aircraft carrier.

Getting this in before we hear "gotta cut spending! can't afford! deficit!"   We could afford all kinds of health services, if we weren't obsessed with being astoundingly amazingly good at blowing shiat up.

/subby
 
2013-05-01 05:12:01 PM  

cirby: It's pretty simple: start building and staffing asylums again. Cheaper in the long run, and better for the worst-off patients.

Of course, that means that a bunch of people lose face over the last five decades of "give them pills and hope they take them, it's more humane."


I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that was said by no one.  The rationale was, get rid of the large, poorly staffed, unaccountable, poorly run state asylums, and replace them with smaller, better run facilities in the communities.  So family and friends could check up on how their loved ones were cared for and the places would be held accountable.

So they closed the big state facilities, and then largely never bothered to build the local ones (with some exceptions, in the Bay Area where I grew up they actually did, at least in my county).
 
2013-05-01 05:14:23 PM  

MisterRonbo: Lemme also point out that the amount we've cut in the past three years ($4.35 billion) is enough to buy just over 13 F-35 JSF fighter planes, or about a third of a new Ford class aircraft carrier.

Getting this in before we hear "gotta cut spending! can't afford! deficit!"   We could afford all kinds of health services, if we weren't obsessed with being astoundingly amazingly good at blowing shiat up.

/subby


And then we wonder why crazy people wind up shooting a bunch of folks.
 
2013-05-01 05:15:01 PM  
Conservatives have no vision for the consequences of their black/white decision making skills.  They cut funding for programs and then blame the cost of unintended results on someone else.  Party of personal responsibility and fiscal conservatism indeed.
 
2013-05-01 05:15:27 PM  
curing crazy isn't a profitable as incarcerating it.
 
2013-05-01 05:17:13 PM  
so you had more mental people during wartime.  big whoop
 
2013-05-01 05:18:15 PM  

Jon iz teh kewl: so you had more mental people during wartime.  big whoop


8/10.  You'll get some bites.
 
2013-05-01 05:19:34 PM  

cirby: It's pretty simple: start building and staffing asylums again. Cheaper in the long run, and better for the worst-off patients.

Of course, that means that a bunch of people lose face over the last five decades of "give them pills and hope they take them, it's more humane."


This.  After all, it was one of the old-style nut houses that cured Christopher Lloyd and Danny DeVito, two seriously farked up people!
 
2013-05-01 05:21:18 PM  

Citrate1007: Conservatives have no vision for the consequences of their black/white decision making skills.  They cut funding for programs and then blame the cost of unintended results on someone else.  Party of personal responsibility and fiscal conservatism indeed.


You forgot the part where they then in turn blame mass shootings on a lack of mental health care, right before going back to making sure it's underfunded.
 
2013-05-01 05:24:10 PM  
I suppose the reasonable solution is to incarcerate people who are only guilty of being sick.
 
2013-05-01 05:24:25 PM  

MisterRonbo: Lemme also point out that the amount we've cut in the past three years ($4.35 billion) is enough to buy just over 13 F-35 JSF fighter planes, or about a third of a new Ford class aircraft carrier.

Getting this in before we hear "gotta cut spending! can't afford! deficit!"   We could afford all kinds of health services, if we weren't obsessed with being astoundingly amazingly good at blowing shiat up.

/subby


Well, one is the job of a federal government and the other isn't. I'd blame a sue crazy (pun intended) populace that made it all but impossible to have privately held charitable asylums.
 
2013-05-01 05:25:19 PM  
So they're no longer coming to take me away, ha ha?
 
2013-05-01 05:26:51 PM  

Richard Freckle: We were given fark accounts and told not to commute anymore.


As a recovering agoraphobic, I'm getting a kick out of this thread...
 
2013-05-01 05:31:25 PM  
All the mental defectives are now Congressvermin and have gold plated health care
 
2013-05-01 05:34:15 PM  
Those places were pretty terrible from many accounts--with a little accountability and oversight, I could see psychiatric patients actually benefiting from some actual treatment, especially those who cannot care for themselves or have families to do so. Currently--that homeless crazy fark who just harassed you on the street for a nickel gets his treatment at the street pharmacy or nearest liquor store.
 
2013-05-01 05:36:52 PM  

UNC_Samurai: And then we wonder why crazy people wind up shooting a bunch of folks.


I never wonder that.  In general I wonder why MORE people don't go batshiat insane.  We're not a terribly stable bunch to begin with, and society doesn't exactly help.  I generally go pretty damn quickly from "oh lord, what a tragedy" to "wow, it's been almost a year since this last happened."

A jaded farker am I.
 
2013-05-01 05:43:17 PM  
cirby:
It's pretty simple: start building and staffing asylums again. Cheaper in the long run, and better for the worst-off patients.

Of course, that means that a bunch of people lose face over the last five decades of "give them pills and hope they take them, it's more humane."


MisterRonbo:
I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that was said by no one.

You can have all of the impressions you want, but that was the end result.

The rationale was, get rid of the large, poorly staffed, unaccountable, poorly run state asylums, and replace them with smaller, better run facilities in the communities. So family and friends could check up on how their loved ones were cared for and the places would be held accountable.

Nope. That would have been one good option, but the Community Mental Health Centers plan was more organized toward an outpatient basis. The idea was "get them out of the asylums, give them drugs, have them come into the office once a month or so to refill prescriptions and talk to a doctor, and let them back out." There was a lot of faith in the newer psychiatric drugs to control psychosis and the like - but they kinda forgot one word.

Compliance.

You see, when you have someone who takes drugs every few hours to control their mental state, it only takes a couple of missed doses for the problem to resurface. A lot of the drugs have bad side effects, so there's that, too.

Then, they compounded the whole issue by closing down a lot of asylums, kicking out the residents, and not having the local support for the former residents. When you shut down the state mental hospital out in Podunksville, the patients mostly don't have anywhere to go. Lots of them don't have a family that can take them in, and others don't want to go back to their old community in the first place. So they wander. And end up in jail, or homeless, or dead.
But, as many have pointed out, we took a whole lot of suffering patients from drab, awful, state psychiatric hospitals - and dropped them into drab, awful, dangerous state prisons.
 
2013-05-01 05:43:49 PM  
Yeah, well at least we don't chain them to those beds anymore. Now we have drugs.

OniExpress: In general I wonder why MORE people don't go batshiat insane. We're not a terribly stable bunch to begin with, and society doesn't exactly help.


I agree with you. I think our society is the worst thing we've ever done to ourselves.
 
2013-05-01 05:48:55 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: All the mental defectives are now Congressvermin and have gold plated health care


guardianlv.com
 
2013-05-01 05:50:27 PM  

Spaced Lion: MaudlinMutantMollusk: All the mental defectives are now Congressvermin and have gold plated health care

[guardianlv.com image 300x290]


I rest my case
 
2013-05-01 05:55:32 PM  

cirby: cirby:
It's pretty simple: start building and staffing asylums again. Cheaper in the long run, and better for the worst-off patients.

Of course, that means that a bunch of people lose face over the last five decades of "give them pills and hope they take them, it's more humane."

MisterRonbo:
I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that was said by no one.

You can have all of the impressions you want, but that was the end result.

The rationale was, get rid of the large, poorly staffed, unaccountable, poorly run state asylums, and replace them with smaller, better run facilities in the communities. So family and friends could check up on how their loved ones were cared for and the places would be held accountable.

Nope. That would have been one good option, but the Community Mental Health Centers plan was more organized toward an outpatient basis. The idea was "get them out of the asylums, give them drugs, have them come into the office once a month or so to refill prescriptions and talk to a doctor, and let them back out." There was a lot of faith in the newer psychiatric drugs to control psychosis and the like - but they kinda forgot one word.

Compliance.

You see, when you have someone who takes drugs every few hours to control their mental state, it only takes a couple of missed doses for the problem to resurface. A lot of the drugs have bad side effects, so there's that, too.

Then, they compounded the whole issue by closing down a lot of asylums, kicking out the residents, and not having the local support for the former residents. When you shut down the state mental hospital out in Podunksville, the patients mostly don't have anywhere to go. Lots of them don't have a family that can take them in, and others don't want to go back to their old community in the first place. So they wander. And end up in jail, or homeless, or dead.
But, as many have pointed out, we took a whole lot of suffering patients from drab, awful, state psychiatric hospitals ...


There's a fairly new initiative out, called Laura's Law in California, and being applied in other places. Its formal name is Assisted Outpatient Treatment. It's a form of court-ordered treatment for recidivist mentally ill that replaces incarceration with a six-month period of intensive medication and therapy. If the patient is successful, the treatment is extended another six months. The recidivism rate among patients who opt for AOT is remarkably low, and compliance rates are high, because for some reason patients seem better able to take their meds as ordered by a judge than when ordered by their family.

Nay sayers don't like it, because they claim it's forced treatment, and it is--but the alternative is to have the patient go to jail or prison and not get treated, or to expect a severely mentally disturbed person to try to figure it out on his own, or hope the family can somehow manage to get him down to the clinic three times a week by cajoling him. The mild coercion of a court order seems to fill in the gap where incarceration is too much but family is not enough. But we can't make people get help...
 
2013-05-01 05:56:08 PM  
How can that be? I recently heard the NRA was all about funding mental health services.
 
2013-05-01 05:59:39 PM  

DarwiOdrade: How can that be? I recently heard the NRA was all about funding mental health services.


Yeah love that huh?

NRA: The problem with these shootings are not the guns but crazy people with guns.

Politicians: Ok how about we make it harder for crazy people to have access to guns?

NRA: NO!

Politicians: Ok what do you suggest?

NRA: Lets buy more people more guns!!!
 
2013-05-01 06:13:23 PM  
Thank you Ronald Reagan!
 
2013-05-01 06:21:01 PM  

Corvus: DarwiOdrade: How can that be? I recently heard the NRA was all about funding mental health services.

Yeah love that huh?

NRA: The problem with these shootings are not the guns but crazy people with guns.

Politicians: Ok how about we make it harder for crazy people to have access to guns?

NRA: NO!

Politicians: Ok what do you suggest?

NRA: Lets buy more people more guns!!!


Funny how the NRA's solution to absolutely everything is "People should buy more guns!".

Almost like they're more concerned with gun sales than anything else.
 
2013-05-01 06:21:38 PM  
About eight years ago I tried to admit myself into a mental hospital because I was very suicidal.  I couldn't afford regular therapy or any meds, and most days I would call in sick from work (at McDs) and end up cutting every inch of skin on my body.  After a short talk with one of the counselors  I was told that I wasn't a threat to myself or anyone and I should lose weight instead.  Thankfully a local social worker paid out of her own pocket for my meds for a few months and got me started on regular therapy and I got better. My experiences with the mental health system should prove to people how bad it can be.
 
2013-05-01 06:24:57 PM  

Isitoveryet: curing crazy isn't a profitable as incarcerating it.


Just like cancer/aids/parkinsons/herpes
 
2013-05-01 06:29:09 PM  

UNC_Samurai: MisterRonbo: Lemme also point out that the amount we've cut in the past three years ($4.35 billion) is enough to buy just over 13 F-35 JSF fighter planes, or about a third of a new Ford class aircraft carrier.

Getting this in before we hear "gotta cut spending! can't afford! deficit!"   We could afford all kinds of health services, if we weren't obsessed with being astoundingly amazingly good at blowing shiat up.

/subby

And then we wonder why crazy people wind up shooting a bunch of folks.


This.
 
2013-05-01 06:30:57 PM  
Of course.

Mental illness isn't taken seriously in this country. Armchair medical experts believe that resources are wasted on the homeless and the poor, and that they're faking their illnesses to leech off the state in perpetuity;

And of course, only a very small percentage of the upper classes have mental illnesses, and if they do, it's because they don't want to find a job, either, and are exhibiting the same behavior as poor people.

I think that covers it.
 
2013-05-01 06:37:16 PM  

flamingboar: About eight years ago I tried to admit myself into a mental hospital because I was very suicidal.  I couldn't afford regular therapy or any meds, and most days I would call in sick from work (at McDs) and end up cutting every inch of skin on my body.  After a short talk with one of the counselors  I was told that I wasn't a threat to myself or anyone and I should lose weight instead.  Thankfully a local social worker paid out of her own pocket for my meds for a few months and got me started on regular therapy and I got better. My experiences with the mental health system should prove to people how bad it can be.


Strange, I got my old roommate put on a 3 day hold for less than that.
 
2013-05-01 06:39:38 PM  

Lord_Baull: Thank you Ronald Reagan!


Good ol Zombie Reagan.  He time-traveled back to 1963 and passed the Community Mental Health Act and then appointed enough Supreme Court Justices to rule on O'Connor v. Donaldson in 1975.
 
2013-05-01 06:42:16 PM  

ShawnDoc: flamingboar: About eight years ago I tried to admit myself into a mental hospital because I was very suicidal.  I couldn't afford regular therapy or any meds, and most days I would call in sick from work (at McDs) and end up cutting every inch of skin on my body.  After a short talk with one of the counselors  I was told that I wasn't a threat to myself or anyone and I should lose weight instead.  Thankfully a local social worker paid out of her own pocket for my meds for a few months and got me started on regular therapy and I got better. My experiences with the mental health system should prove to people how bad it can be.

Strange, I got my old roommate put on a 3 day hold for less than that.


Tell me you did it for the lulz
 
2013-05-01 06:52:21 PM  
Probably because we are much better at treating psychiatric disease and stabilizing people rather than just locking them away.
 
2013-05-01 06:53:03 PM  
Hey, the exact same article again.
 
2013-05-01 07:03:12 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: All the mental defectives are now Congressvermin and have gold plated health care


I was going to say that we decided that we would just send them to Washington instead of locking them up, but you beat me to it. But, like you said, at least they all now have excellent healthcare, so.... problem solved??
 
2013-05-01 07:07:15 PM  

ShawnDoc: flamingboar: About eight years ago I tried to admit myself into a mental hospital because I was very suicidal.  I couldn't afford regular therapy or any meds, and most days I would call in sick from work (at McDs) and end up cutting every inch of skin on my body.  After a short talk with one of the counselors  I was told that I wasn't a threat to myself or anyone and I should lose weight instead.  Thankfully a local social worker paid out of her own pocket for my meds for a few months and got me started on regular therapy and I got better. My experiences with the mental health system should prove to people how bad it can be.

Strange, I got my old roommate put on a 3 day hold for less than that.


Your roommate was a threat to YOU. It is always much easier to convince the cops that someone needs to be locked up if they are a danger to "someone else" than if they are merely a danger to themselves.
 
2013-05-01 07:13:11 PM  

MisterRonbo: cirby: It's pretty simple: start building and staffing asylums again. Cheaper in the long run, and better for the worst-off patients.

Of course, that means that a bunch of people lose face over the last five decades of "give them pills and hope they take them, it's more humane."

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that was said by no one.  The rationale was, get rid of the large, poorly staffed, unaccountable, poorly run state asylums, and replace them with smaller, better run facilities in the communities.  So family and friends could check up on how their loved ones were cared for and the places would be held accountable.

So they closed the big state facilities, and then largely never bothered to build the local ones (with some exceptions, in the Bay Area where I grew up they actually did, at least in my county).


Well, its hard to build local facilities when they massivey cut the budget that was funding the big state facilities at the same time.  Luckily, they upped the amount of prisons, so that's nice!!
 
2013-05-01 07:27:36 PM  

Yes please: Probably because we are much better at treating psychiatric disease and stabilizing people rather than just locking them away.


I don't know. It seem violent crime by crazy people seems to be up. Also we see much more homeless now because we don't treat mental illness.
 
2013-05-01 07:29:38 PM  

Corvus: Yes please: Probably because we are much better at treating psychiatric disease and stabilizing people rather than just locking them away.

I don't know. It seem violent crime by crazy people seems to be up. Also we see much more homeless now because we don't treat mental illness.


Much better at treatment? Sure.

Better access to said treatment? Not so much.
 
2013-05-01 07:33:40 PM  
The rich are paying the same tax rates as they did in the 1850's too! Thank god for that.
 
2013-05-01 07:34:18 PM  

ShawnDoc: flamingboar: About eight years ago I tried to admit myself into a mental hospital because I was very suicidal.  I couldn't afford regular therapy or any meds, and most days I would call in sick from work (at McDs) and end up cutting every inch of skin on my body.  After a short talk with one of the counselors  I was told that I wasn't a threat to myself or anyone and I should lose weight instead.  Thankfully a local social worker paid out of her own pocket for my meds for a few months and got me started on regular therapy and I got better. My experiences with the mental health system should prove to people how bad it can be.

Strange, I got my old roommate put on a 3 day hold for less than that.


I live in Kentucky, so that should explain a lot.
 
2013-05-01 07:37:34 PM  
Don't worry guys, the NRA is all over this one.
 
2013-05-01 07:44:00 PM  
That's not true, the House of Representatives was smaller in those days.
 
2013-05-01 07:47:51 PM  

Gyrfalcon: ShawnDoc: flamingboar: About eight years ago I tried to admit myself into a mental hospital because I was very suicidal.  I couldn't afford regular therapy or any meds, and most days I would call in sick from work (at McDs) and end up cutting every inch of skin on my body.  After a short talk with one of the counselors  I was told that I wasn't a threat to myself or anyone and I should lose weight instead.  Thankfully a local social worker paid out of her own pocket for my meds for a few months and got me started on regular therapy and I got better. My experiences with the mental health system should prove to people how bad it can be.

Strange, I got my old roommate put on a 3 day hold for less than that.

Your roommate was a threat to YOU. It is always much easier to convince the cops that someone needs to be locked up if they are a danger to "someone else" than if they are merely a danger to themselves.


Nah more likely they had private insurance that would pay 3+k per day for the hospitalization.
 
2013-05-01 07:52:58 PM  
Corvus:
Politicians: Ok how about we make it harder for crazy people to have access to guns?

NRA: NO!


Actually, the NRA said the opposite. Not only have they supported closing loopholes that have let some mentally ill people buy guns (state laws have done that in some cases), repeated polls of the NRA membership show that over 90% of NRA members support laws banning the mentally ill from owning guns.

The Democrats just want to make it harder for the mentally ill - by making it much, much harder (if not impossible) for everyone else.
 
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