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(Talking Points Memo)   The conspiracy theory that Obama is buying up all the nation's ammunition is so crazy that even the NRA says it's bull. But that hasn't stopped two GOP congressmen from drafting legislation to combat it   ( tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line
    More: Stupid, NRA, GOP, obama, house oversight committee, conspiracy theories, Inhofe  
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7159 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 May 2013 at 5:06 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-01 02:44:51 PM  
somebody should add up all the time and money the GOP has spent since 2010 drafting bullshiat legislation like this, the 36 obamacare repeals, reading the constitution aloud, etc. etc.

and that doesn't even count passing blatantly unconstitutional bullshiat laws in the states.

party of small government, my ass.
 
2013-05-01 02:48:02 PM  
There isn't an anti-Obama conspiracy theory yet that the House GOP hasn't attempted to draft laws to combat.
 
2013-05-01 02:55:21 PM  
OMG!  the NRA!  Obama got to them!
 
2013-05-01 03:02:20 PM  

Aarontology: There isn't an anti-Obama conspiracy theory yet that the House GOP hasn't attempted to draft laws to combat.


Sounds like a conspiracy to me.
 
2013-05-01 03:10:02 PM  
Inhofe huh? My money was on King or Gohmert. All are idiots though.
 
2013-05-01 03:46:33 PM  
Makes me proud to be from Oklahoma!

/Which way are the escape pods?
 
2013-05-01 04:04:04 PM  
don't worry though submitter, some brave fark "posters" will be in here soon enough to tell us that NOAA has purchased 1.6 billion bullets and DHS has purchased 2700 MRAPs.
 
2013-05-01 04:05:28 PM  
Too much hurr in their derp.
 
2013-05-01 04:12:51 PM  
Senators, actually.
 
2013-05-01 04:24:09 PM  
Wouldn't the manufacturers just say "great!" and add a second shift or something?
 
2013-05-01 04:33:31 PM  

EvilEgg: Wouldn't the manufacturers just say "great!" and add a second shift or something?


As I understand it, the manufacturers are all running at full capacity (supposedly), and the next step would be building new facilities, which none of them are willing to roll the dice on.
 
2013-05-01 04:40:54 PM  
That article is some world-class derp. The GAO is investigating DHS trying to figure out why it suddenly needs so much ammo and DHS doesn't have very good answers so far. It's an agency that obviously has way too big a budget. The legislation would stop agencies from accumulating massive stockpiles they don't need. In government, the trick is to make sure you spend up all your budget, so you don't get slashed the following year. This is about keeping government agencies from wasteful spending, not about the ammo supplies in retail stores.
 
2013-05-01 04:47:03 PM  
Really, I can think of a lot of things the gov can spend that money on that are better than ammo they don't need.
 
2013-05-01 04:50:05 PM  
*scans headline*


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-05-01 04:51:49 PM  

FlashHarry: somebody should add up all the time and money the GOP has spent since 2010 drafting bullshiat legislation like this, the 36 obamacare repeals, reading the constitution aloud, etc. etc.

and that doesn't even count passing blatantly unconstitutional bullshiat laws in the states.

party of small government, my ass.


I'd bet there would be a cost savings. The more time they spend doing this the less time they have to find new and interesting ways to spend money.

I mean they are in town anyway so really the only cost would be all the copies they have to print of the actual legislation so the Congresspersons can read them. And really how many copies do you think are requested?! So like 10 - 15 bucks max.
 
2013-05-01 04:53:43 PM  
 
2013-05-01 04:56:16 PM  

EvilEgg: Wouldn't the manufacturers just say "great!" and add a second shift or something?


Here is an article covering that question and calling BS on the government hording ammo

Link
 
2013-05-01 04:59:15 PM  

Triumph: This is about keeping government agencies from wasteful spending, not about the ammo supplies in retail stores.


FTFA:

DHS spending on ammunition represents less than one tenth of one percent of the DHS budget
 
2013-05-01 05:08:02 PM  

Triumph: That article is some world-class derp. The GAO is investigating DHS trying to figure out why it suddenly needs so much ammo and DHS doesn't have very good answers so far. It's an agency that obviously has way too big a budget. The legislation would stop agencies from accumulating massive stockpiles they don't need. In government, the trick is to make sure you spend up all your budget, so you don't get slashed the following year. This is about keeping government agencies from wasteful spending, not about the ammo supplies in retail stores.


I wondered about that.  In the military, you don't get rewarded with coming in under budget, and are allowed to keep your surplus for a rainy day.  The beancounters assume that since that's all you needed last fiscal year, then that's what you'll need this fiscal year.

You'll start seeing commanders placing orders for gigantic HDTVs for every flat surface in the headquarters building, and mass purchasing every ridiculous Mall Ninja accessory for their troops' M4s near the end of the fiscal year, because of that stupid line of thinking.
 
2013-05-01 05:09:04 PM  
Tilting windmills is the primary function of a small government.
 
2013-05-01 05:10:15 PM  
GOP legislators have no clue about reality......shocking!
 
2013-05-01 05:11:17 PM  
To be fair, if there was such a conspiracy, the NRA who is wholly in the pocket of the gun and ammunition manufacturers would naturally be in on it since it would make their bosses money.
 
2013-05-01 05:11:33 PM  
I'm not old enough to be sure, but has there ever been this much horseshiat conspiracy theory stuff about a president before? All I can remember was them doing this to Clinton and, while ridiculous, it was never this fanciful or elaborate.
 
2013-05-01 05:13:35 PM  
NRA probably debunked it because they couldn't figure out a way to scare some money out of the gun crowd with the story
 
2013-05-01 05:14:01 PM  

jeffspec: Makes me proud to be from Oklahoma!

/Which way are the escape pods?


Save room for me!
 
2013-05-01 05:14:09 PM  
Well those congressmen are responding due to ammo concerns by citizens.  The government buys more than they need, sure, but it's the same with everything.  Some places in the country, it's impossible to find ammunition.  Everyone is hoarding, including the government.
 
2013-05-01 05:17:01 PM  

Aarontology: There isn't an anti-Obama conspiracy theory yet that the House GOP hasn't attempted to draft laws to combat.


Personally; I think that Obama needs to release his long form cat-scan certificate to prove that he's not a lizard person.
 
2013-05-01 05:18:29 PM  

Apos: *scans headline*


[3.bp.blogspot.com image 200x150]


This!

Hell, that's my feeling most days.
 
2013-05-01 05:18:47 PM  
Don't worry, Ted has you covered.

http://tednugentammo.com/
 
2013-05-01 05:19:20 PM  

PreMortem: Inhofe huh? My money was on King or Gohmert. All are idiots though.


I couldn't open the article.  I was betting on Bachmann.
 
2013-05-01 05:19:40 PM  
crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ?  Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer.   A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?
 
2013-05-01 05:20:11 PM  

Muta: Tilting windmills is the primary function of a small government.


Well yeah. They are dutch thus foreign and are associated with dykes, making this an assault on Christian values. Foreign assaults are terrorism. Thus windmills are foreign terrorists attacking American assets here at home as part of the queer islamofascist agenda. Hence the party of small government acting to disarm the Department of Homeland Defense.
 
2013-05-01 05:20:26 PM  

Loki-L: To be fair, if there was such a conspiracy, the NRA who is wholly in the pocket of the gun and ammunition manufacturers would naturally be in on it since it would make their bosses money.


I suspect all the hysteria about guns being taken away, which is also propagated by the NRA, is intended to drive up gun sales.

If the US government really went rogue in this day and age, they'd just take out problem people with drones or even satellites. They aren't worried about people having guns.
 
2013-05-01 05:21:10 PM  
Except the DHS has been buying a ridiculous amount of hollow point ammo under the Obama administration, and good luck finding any on the shelves right now.  Regardless of the intent, the industry has not been able to keep up with civilian demand.
 
2013-05-01 05:21:49 PM  

Mimic_Octopus: crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ?  Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer.   A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?


Supply and demand.  It's not the gun nuts per se, it's the preppers.
 
2013-05-01 05:22:48 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: Loki-L: To be fair, if there was such a conspiracy, the NRA who is wholly in the pocket of the gun and ammunition manufacturers would naturally be in on it since it would make their bosses money.

I suspect all the hysteria about guns being taken away, which is also propagated by the NRA, is intended to drive up gun sales.

If the US government really went rogue in this day and age, they'd just take out problem people with drones or even satellites. They aren't worried about people having guns.


Anyone who was ever in the military knows the "citizens" don't have a hope of standing up against them.
1 minigun would settle all the discussions.
 
2013-05-01 05:23:47 PM  
Well somebody must be hoarding all the ammo because there's not enough ammo around for me to hoard.
 
2013-05-01 05:24:17 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: NRA probably debunked it because they couldn't figure out a way to scare some money out of the gun crowd with the story


The NRA debunked this because their gun selling whoremasters stand to make less profit if the government is prohibited by law from buying ammunition made by the NRA's gun selling whoremasters.

Its as simple as that.
 
2013-05-01 05:24:18 PM  
Actually, the plan is buy the bullets and then return them for a refund, after lacing them with a genetically engineered disease using stem cells from aborted babies. Then law-abiding gun owners will all get get AIDS Butt Cancer when they buy the returned bullets.
 
2013-05-01 05:24:44 PM  

FARK rebel soldier: I'm not old enough to be sure, but has there ever been this much horseshiat conspiracy theory stuff about a president before? All I can remember was them doing this to Clinton and, while ridiculous, it was never this fanciful or elaborate.

Yeah, they totally spared Bush of any of this nonsense. /sarc
 
2013-05-01 05:25:27 PM  
Oh goody, that's my friggin Representative.

Like I said once before, at some point stuff like this should be considered treason. The right has done more than any terrorist group to cripple the US government. I say let them see Guantanamo first hand... and stay there.
 
2013-05-01 05:25:34 PM  
Shouldn't the free market be able to handle this?

/don't really care
//too much whargarble
 
2013-05-01 05:25:37 PM  

nytmare: Well somebody must be hoarding all the ammo because there's not enough ammo around for me to hoard.


Exactly.  When you buy based on paranoia, it becomes a self-reinforcing cycle when the supply runs out.
 
2013-05-01 05:26:57 PM  

detritus: Except the DHS has been buying a ridiculous amount of hollow point ammo under the Obama administration, and good luck finding any on the shelves right now.  Regardless of the intent, the industry has not been able to keep up with civilian demand.


Establishing mutli-year contracts and price caps to replace expiring ones and actually  'buying' are two different things.  Most of the big numbers being thrown around are by taking the maximum number off of multi-year contracts for every department and every year of the contract.  The rounds have not actually been 'bought' or acquired so blaming them for any issues in the supply chain doesn't make any sense.  Even if the DHS acquired a billion rounds, that would still be a very small percentage of production.

Basically, they are based on a huge level of ignorance on how government contracting works.  Way to go Patriots!
 
2013-05-01 05:28:14 PM  
Regardless of conspiracy theories, keeping the government from buying unnecessary amounts of ammo would put at least a little bit of ammo back on the market for civilians to hoard.
 
2013-05-01 05:28:55 PM  

BolloxReader: Muta: Tilting windmills is the primary function of a small government.

Well yeah. They are dutch thus foreign and are associated with dykes, making this an assault on Christian values. Foreign assaults are terrorism. Thus windmills are foreign terrorists attacking American assets here at home as part of the queer islamofascist agenda. Hence the party of small government acting to disarm the Department of Homeland Defense.


It's all so clear to me now!
 
2013-05-01 05:29:17 PM  
Because companies have a limited number of bullets they can manufacture and sell
 
2013-05-01 05:30:08 PM  

nmrsnr: Triumph: This is about keeping government agencies from wasteful spending, not about the ammo supplies in retail stores.

You'd be right, except that Inhofe and Lucas explicitly said that you're wrong:

"President Obama has been adamant about curbing law-abiding Americans' access and opportunities to exercise their Second Amendment rights," said Inhofe. "One way the Obama Administration is able to do this is by limiting what's available in the market with federal agencies purchasing unnecessary stockpiles of ammunition."

"After hearing from my constituents about the shortage of ammunition in Oklahoma and the Department of Homeland Security's profligate purchases of ammunition," said Lucas. "We have introduced the AMMO Act of 2013 to curtail these purchases so Americans can exercise their Second Amendment rights without being encumbered by the federal government."


To us guys here up North, those jimmy-crack-corn politicians sound like this...

"President Obama has been adamant about curbin' law-abidin' South Car'linans' access an' oppo'tunities t'exercise their Second Amendment rights," said Inhofe. "One way th' Obama Administrashun is able t'do this hyar is by limitin' whut's available in th' market wif federal ajuncies purchasin' unnecessary stockpiles of ammunishun."

"Af'er hearin' fum mah cornstituents about th' sho'tage of ammunishun in Oklahoma an' th' Department of Homelan' Security's profligate purchases of ammunishun," said Lucas. "We haf intrydooced th' AMMO Ack of 2013 t'curtail these purchases so South Car'linans kin exercise their Second Amendment rights wifout bein' incumbered by th' federal govment."

YeeeehaaaaW!
 
2013-05-01 05:30:22 PM  

serial_crusher: Regardless of conspiracy theories, keeping the government from buying unnecessary amounts of ammo would put at least a little bit of ammo back on the market for civilians to hoard.


What definition of 'unnecessary' are we going to use?  I'm guessing these guys won't use the same definition for tanks and jet engines.
 
2013-05-01 05:31:04 PM  

Mimic_Octopus: crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ?  Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer.   A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?


Crazy farks like you should not own guns.  If you are stupid enough to believe this shiat.
 
2013-05-01 05:31:08 PM  
Crazy doesn't need a reason...
 
2013-05-01 05:31:51 PM  

FARK rebel soldier: I'm not old enough to be sure, but has there ever been this much horseshiat conspiracy theory stuff about a president before? All I can remember was them doing this to Clinton and, while ridiculous, it was never this fanciful or elaborate.


The derp was flying pretty thick during Bush II's run, especially with the 'he's going to suspend the constitution and declare himself dictator if he loses the election' crowd.

If there's one good thing to be said about idiots, it's that they're fairly consistent regardless of who's actually in power at any given time.
 
2013-05-01 05:32:56 PM  
Let them keep buying it. They'll never use it all, regardless of what they say and it will get dumped onto open market as surplus
 
2013-05-01 05:32:58 PM  
And ammunition sales boom because of the news of this legislation.
I wonder how much of a kickback Inhofe and Lucas got from industry lobbyists.
 
2013-05-01 05:33:41 PM  

toraque: FARK rebel soldier: I'm not old enough to be sure, but has there ever been this much horseshiat conspiracy theory stuff about a president before? All I can remember was them doing this to Clinton and, while ridiculous, it was never this fanciful or elaborate.

The derp was flying pretty thick during Bush II's run, especially with the 'he's going to suspend the constitution and declare himself dictator if he loses the election' crowd.

If there's one good thing to be said about idiots, it's that they're fairly consistent regardless of who's actually in power at any given time.


Were Democrats drafting legislation to stop Bush 2 from suspending the constitution?  Your comparison sucks ass.
 
2013-05-01 05:33:59 PM  

Mimic_Octopus: crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ?  Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer.   A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?


I recommend you thank the great and powerful NRA for scaring a few million half-wits into stocking up on enough ammo to invade Canada before OBAMA COMES FOR THEIR GUNS.  Supply and demand is a bitach, ain't it?
 
2013-05-01 05:34:20 PM  
www.charlock.org
 
2013-05-01 05:34:47 PM  
Pred. Obma govment is buy'ing up all are Ammo. Even tho the Constition say's that it's is MINE. IT IS UNLEGAL ACCORD TO BILL OF ARMS FOR GOVMENT TO BU'Y MY AMO. now how will I protec house from mexicos and invader's from Space. This is Why I listen to the glen gleck show on rado. HE is the Only one that tell's it like is. If the Nra doesnt take serosly then I will QUIT and join a more patriotish group!!!!!1!!one hundred and eleven
 
2013-05-01 05:35:31 PM  

Mimic_Octopus: crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ?  Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer.   A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?


Any shortage is due to people like you scared of your own shadows.  Funny little circle of fear you've brought upon yourselves.
 
2013-05-01 05:37:46 PM  
Ya know, I've been slapping myself on the back for months for being well stocked. After the great panic of 2008-09, I stockpiled all the necessary calibers and components to survive any future panics.... except friggin' .22lr. Never, ever thought I'd see the day when you couldn't find .22lr.

//It is not a damn conspiracy, it's just hoarding.
 
2013-05-01 05:38:02 PM  

Muta: Tilting windmills is the primary function of a small government.


What about tilting at windmills? Possibly, with a guy named Sancho?
 
2013-05-01 05:38:16 PM  

toraque: FARK rebel soldier: I'm not old enough to be sure, but has there ever been this much horseshiat conspiracy theory stuff about a president before? All I can remember was them doing this to Clinton and, while ridiculous, it was never this fanciful or elaborate.

The derp was flying pretty thick during Bush II's run, especially with the 'he's going to suspend the constitution and declare himself dictator if he loses the election' crowd.

If there's one good thing to be said about idiots, it's that they're fairly consistent regardless of who's actually in power at any given time.


Yeah, I wasn't around much earlier than the Bush Jr. years.
I know Kennedy supposedly faked the moon landing as well as his own assassination, but I don't know how many government officials bought into those.
I even heard a crazy theory once about Reagan and Bush Sr. providing weapons and other material support to al-Qaeda during the 1980s.
And of course pretty much everybody McCarthy didn't like during the 1950s was a communist...
 
2013-05-01 05:38:54 PM  
I find it frightening that conspiracy nutjobs are getting more mainstream.

fark you internet.
 
2013-05-01 05:38:57 PM  
At least all the paranoid cowards are helping the economy.
 
2013-05-01 05:39:56 PM  

FARK rebel soldier: I'm not old enough to be sure, but has there ever been this much horseshiat conspiracy theory stuff about a president before? All I can remember was them doing this to Clinton and, while ridiculous, it was never this fanciful or elaborate.


Uh.. 9/11 had a few elaborate and fanciful conspiracy theories
 
2013-05-01 05:40:33 PM  
1. A bill introduced late last week by Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK) and Rep. Frank Lucas (R-OK) would ban federal agencies, excluding the Pentagon, from buying more ammunition during a six-month period if it currently possesses more than its monthly averages during the Bush administration.
2. Republican lawmakers look to limit federal agency purchases of ammunition
3. Lawmakers want to limit government purchases of ammunition
Facebook. OBAMA WANTS TO LIMIT YOUR RIGHT TO PURCHASE AMMO!!

I give it 2-3 days.
 
2013-05-01 05:40:50 PM  

Sgt Otter: Triumph: That article is some world-class derp. The GAO is investigating DHS trying to figure out why it suddenly needs so much ammo and DHS doesn't have very good answers so far. It's an agency that obviously has way too big a budget. The legislation would stop agencies from accumulating massive stockpiles they don't need. In government, the trick is to make sure you spend up all your budget, so you don't get slashed the following year. This is about keeping government agencies from wasteful spending, not about the ammo supplies in retail stores.

I wondered about that.  In the military, you don't get rewarded with coming in under budget, and are allowed to keep your surplus for a rainy day.  The beancounters assume that since that's all you needed last fiscal year, then that's what you'll need this fiscal year.

You'll start seeing commanders placing orders for gigantic HDTVs for every flat surface in the headquarters building, and mass purchasing every ridiculous Mall Ninja accessory for their troops' M4s near the end of the fiscal year, because of that stupid line of thinking.


Maybe someone in Congress (maybe the Senate) will introduce legislation that gives government agencies incentives to return unspent money or even gives employees bonuses for spotting where money could be saved. I wonder if anyone has done that recently.
 
2013-05-01 05:41:39 PM  

Calmamity: EvilEgg: Wouldn't the manufacturers just say "great!" and add a second shift or something?

As I understand it, the manufacturers are all running at full capacity (supposedly), and the next step would be building new facilities, which none of them are willing to roll the dice on.


Very feast or famine business, the merchantry of death. The history of every gun and ammo maker is a list of bankruptcies and new owners.

But seriously, people, Cheaperthandirt.com has NO .32 ACP ammo AT ALL. That's not a cop or military round; it's not even a very good self defense round. The old lady runs it through her Walther PPK when we got to the range, and I don't want to have to buy 1,000 rounds just to be able to buy it at all.
 
2013-05-01 05:42:05 PM  

Triumph: That article is some world-class derp. The GAO is investigating DHS trying to figure out why it suddenly needs so much ammo and DHS doesn't have very good answers so far. It's an agency that obviously has way too big a budget. The legislation would stop agencies from accumulating massive stockpiles they don't need. In government, the trick is to make sure you spend up all your budget, so you don't get slashed the following year. This is about keeping government agencies from wasteful spending, not about the ammo supplies in retail stores.


"President Obama has been adamant about curbing law-abiding Americans' access and opportunities to exercise their Second Amendment rights," Inhofe said in a statement. "One way the Obama Administration is able to do this is by limiting what's available in the market with federal agencies purchasing unnecessary stockpiles of ammunition."

So it really IS about the ammo supplies in retail stores...according to the guy who WROTE THE BILL
 
2013-05-01 05:43:26 PM  

Ow! That was my feelings!: Ya know, I've been slapping myself on the back for months for being well stocked. After the great panic of 2008-09, I stockpiled all the necessary calibers and components to survive any future panics.... except friggin' .22lr. Never, ever thought I'd see the day when you couldn't find .22lr.

//It is not a damn conspiracy, it's just hoarding.


The fact that .22lr is one of the rounds that can't be found is a great demonstration that it isn't government purchasing causing shortages.  I'm fairly certain the use of .22LR by DHS gestapo stormtroopers is minimal.
 
2013-05-01 05:43:39 PM  

toraque: FARK rebel soldier: I'm not old enough to be sure, but has there ever been this much horseshiat conspiracy theory stuff about a president before? All I can remember was them doing this to Clinton and, while ridiculous, it was never this fanciful or elaborate.

The derp was flying pretty thick during Bush II's run, especially with the 'he's going to suspend the constitution and declare himself dictator if he loses the election' crowd.

If there's one good thing to be said about idiots, it's that they're fairly consistent regardless of who's actually in power at any given time.


Well, to be fair, he did joke "I wouldn't mind living in a dictatorship, as long as I get to be dictator."
 
2013-05-01 05:44:28 PM  
Fark is so very liberal these days.  It almost makes me want to stop reading the site.  Sadly, I enjoy the humor.
 
2013-05-01 05:46:38 PM  

Inflatable Rhetoric: Anyone who was ever in the military knows the "citizens" don't have a hope of standing up against them.
1 minigun would settle all the discussions.


Or an Apache helicopter from miles away, like in all those FLIR videos from the middle east. Many of those guys have AKs too, and a lot of good it does them.
 
2013-05-01 05:47:08 PM  

kortex: Fark is so very liberal these days.  It almost makes me want to stop reading the site.  Sadly, I enjoy the humor.


Reality has a liberal bias.
 
2013-05-01 05:47:55 PM  
you fools! that's his diversion.

He's also purchasing all the bank owned real estate in major metropolitan areas in an attempt to corner the market but get this! he's going to sell at reasonable prices & NOW even POORs will own homes!!
 
2013-05-01 05:48:59 PM  

seventypercent: Pred. Obma govment is buy'ing up all are Ammo. Even tho the Constition say's that it's is MINE. IT IS UNLEGAL ACCORD TO BILL OF ARMS FOR GOVMENT TO BU'Y MY AMO. now how will I protec house from mexicos and invader's from Space. This is Why I listen to the glen gleck show on rado. HE is the Only one that tell's it like is. If the Nra doesnt take serosly then I will QUIT and join a more patriotish group!!!!!1!!one hundred and eleven


SuuuuhMOOCH!
 
2013-05-01 05:48:59 PM  

kortex: Fark is so very liberal these days.  It almost makes me want to stop reading the site.  Sadly, I enjoy the humor.


Not really.  You have probably regressed.
 
2013-05-01 05:49:26 PM  

CynicalLA: At least all the paranoid cowards are helping the economy.


It's one of the few growth industries around!
 
2013-05-01 05:49:51 PM  
I think I need to start an ammo business.  Apparently it's all gravy.
 
2013-05-01 05:50:06 PM  
The DHS has admitted they're buying 1.6 billion rounds. The conspiracies revovle around why.
 
2013-05-01 05:50:16 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: CynicalLA: At least all the paranoid cowards are helping the economy.

It's one of the few growth industries around!


See, there is a silver lining to all this crazy.
 
2013-05-01 05:51:25 PM  

KittyGlitterSparkles: The DHS has admitted they're buying 1.6 billion rounds. The conspiracies revovle around why.


Department of Homeland Security.  I wonder why.
 
2013-05-01 05:51:28 PM  
Inhofe's a lying farkwad.
 
2013-05-01 05:51:52 PM  

Loki-L: To be fair, if there was such a conspiracy, the NRA who is wholly in the pocket of the gun and ammunition manufacturers would naturally be in on it since it would make their bosses money.


Care to show a citation for your claim about the NRA being in the pocket of gun & ammo makers?

According to their tax records about half their annual income is from things like advertising (they have several magazines and publications in which they sell ad space) and program fees (e.g. fees for NRA-sanctioned competitions, safety courses, hunters education, training courses, etc.), about half is from paid membership dues, and less than 2% is from contributions from the firearms industry (and most of that is from "round ups" from retailers, where a customer can elect to contribute a few dollars to the NRA at the point of sale).
 
2013-05-01 05:53:02 PM  

heypete: Loki-L: To be fair, if there was such a conspiracy, the NRA who is wholly in the pocket of the gun and ammunition manufacturers would naturally be in on it since it would make their bosses money.

Care to show a citation for your claim about the NRA being in the pocket of gun & ammo makers?

According to their tax records about half their annual income is from things like advertising (they have several magazines and publications in which they sell ad space) and program fees (e.g. fees for NRA-sanctioned competitions, safety courses, hunters education, training courses, etc.), about half is from paid membership dues, and less than 2% is from contributions from the firearms industry (and most of that is from "round ups" from retailers, where a customer can elect to contribute a few dollars to the NRA at the point of sale).


This guy is definitely a NRA plant.  Good job.
 
2013-05-01 05:53:59 PM  
I believe that this comment best represents those (and I include some Farkers) that drink the kool-aid straight from the tap.

/and by tap I mean penis

"NONsense. Nobama AND his cabal OF UN Socialistics PLANS to WETTEN all the BULLETS RENDERING THEM and AMERICA's second AMendment RIGHTS to stockPILE MILLIONS of rounds OF HOLLOWPOINT bullets MOOT. PLEASE raise STOP Nobama BEFORE HIS plans FOR THe SOCIALISTIC Utoperization OF AMERICA, with the HELP of the UN, is REPLETE with COMPLETENESS!11!one!!1!!111! "
 
2013-05-01 05:54:08 PM  

Cyclonic Cooking Action: I think I need to start an ammo business.  Apparently it's all gravy.


These days it's basically a license to print money.
 
2013-05-01 05:54:43 PM  
Also, if you know where to look on the internet, you can find ammo. Luckygunner has plenty of 223, 9mm, 40 cal, 7.62x39 ect. At least they did last night.
 
2013-05-01 05:55:51 PM  

KittyGlitterSparkles: Also, if you know where to look on the internet, you can find ammo. Luckygunner has plenty of 223, 9mm, 40 cal, 7.62x39 ect. At least they did last night.


You guys remind me of drug addicts.
 
2013-05-01 05:56:46 PM  

detritus: Except the DHS has been buying a ridiculous amount of hollow point ammo under the Obama administration, and good luck finding any on the shelves right now.  Regardless of the intent, the industry has not been able to keep up with civilian demand.


This is why the NRA is not against it. The NRA has become a lobbying arm of the firearm and ammo industries. Anyways, why exactly do people need hollow point rounds for self defense?
 
2013-05-01 05:58:06 PM  
I would not put it by the gun dealers and ammo companies to create a false fear, hold back production, and then triple the prices.

That seems to be what is going on. A box of .45 acp that cost 14 dollars a year and a half ago is going for 40 dollars... and people are getting rich off of it...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/20 13/04/25/gun-and-outdoor-gear-retailer-cab ela-1q-profit-jumps-73-percent-topping/
 
2013-05-01 05:58:12 PM  

KittyGlitterSparkles: The DHS has admitted they're buying 1.6 billion rounds. The conspiracies revovle around why.


No.  They have not.

The have admitted (and the contracts have always been public) that they have numerous contracts for the next 5 years across multiple departments that would add up to 1.6 Billion rounds only if every single round was purchased for every single agency over the course of every single year of the contracts.

The chances of that actually being the purchases that are made are near zero and they have already said they plan on reducing purchases in the coming year.
 
2013-05-01 05:58:24 PM  

Shvetz: detritus: Except the DHS has been buying a ridiculous amount of hollow point ammo under the Obama administration, and good luck finding any on the shelves right now.  Regardless of the intent, the industry has not been able to keep up with civilian demand.

This is why the NRA is not against it. The NRA has become a lobbying arm of the firearm and ammo industries. Anyways, why exactly do people need hollow point rounds for self defense?


The regular bullets are too heavy for them to lift.
 
2013-05-01 06:01:05 PM  

detritus: Except the DHS has been buying a ridiculous amount of hollow point ammo under the Obama administration,


this is literally a lie, hth
 
2013-05-01 06:01:20 PM  

Shvetz: detritus: Except the DHS has been buying a ridiculous amount of hollow point ammo under the Obama administration, and good luck finding any on the shelves right now.  Regardless of the intent, the industry has not been able to keep up with civilian demand.

This is why the NRA is not against it. The NRA has become a lobbying arm of the firearm and ammo industries. Anyways, why exactly do people need hollow point rounds for self defense?


They're the best man-stopper against a human target not wearing body-armor.  They trade penetration for creating maximum wound channels.  Also, if you live in an apartment, or have kids sleeping in another room, hollow-points rarely over-penetrate.  A full-metal jacket while go through said intruder, through the wall behind him, and into anything into the next room, or the next apartment.

Some people have confused hollow-points with "cop killers," which are armor-piercing rounds.  Hollow-Points are absolutely worthless against body armor.
 
2013-05-01 06:01:24 PM  

CynicalLA: KittyGlitterSparkles: Also, if you know where to look on the internet, you can find ammo. Luckygunner has plenty of 223, 9mm, 40 cal, 7.62x39 ect. At least they did last night.

You guys remind me of drug addicts.


Do you have any ammo?
 
2013-05-01 06:01:31 PM  

Shvetz: detritus: Except the DHS has been buying a ridiculous amount of hollow point ammo under the Obama administration, and good luck finding any on the shelves right now.  Regardless of the intent, the industry has not been able to keep up with civilian demand.

This is why the NRA is not against it. The NRA has become a lobbying arm of the firearm and ammo industries. Anyways, why exactly do people need hollow point rounds for self defense?


The same reason DHS and every police officer in the US do.
 
2013-05-01 06:01:50 PM  

CynicalLA: Mimic_Octopus: crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ?  Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer.   A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?

Crazy farks like you should not own guns.  If you are stupid enough to believe this shiat.


i see it you clown.  i go to multiple stores all the time, no ammo, except hunting rounds. ever.
 
2013-05-01 06:02:00 PM  

CynicalLA: See, there is a silver lining to all this crazy.


The sad part is that I really really want one. But I'm told that they (installers) are a year out (the 5! I've called) and they don't even sell the small weather shelter that I want any more! You see having two small children in the middle of tornado alley makes me think that having a small underground shelter is a good idea.

But the effing effers make it to the point that I have to buy a small underground city just to find someone who will give me the time of day.
 
2013-05-01 06:02:06 PM  

serial_crusher: Yeah, I wasn't around much earlier than the Bush Jr. years.
I know Kennedy supposedly faked the moon landing as well as his own assassination, but I don't know how many government officials bought into those.
I even heard a crazy theory once about Reagan and Bush Sr. providing weapons and other material support to al-Qaeda during the 1980s.
And of course pretty much everybody McCarthy didn't like during the 1950s was a communist...


Not sure if serious
 
2013-05-01 06:02:08 PM  

KittyGlitterSparkles: The DHS has admitted they're buying 1.6 billion rounds. The conspiracies revovle around why.


again, a lie
 
2013-05-01 06:02:32 PM  

Shvetz: why exactly do people need hollow point rounds for self defense?


Because they're better at killing bad guys?
If I shoot a dude, I'm not aiming to wound him.  He'll just get angry and rape me harder if he's not dead.
 
2013-05-01 06:02:34 PM  
I know that I'm about 200 years behind here, but damn it seems like America wakes up to each new day and somehow manages to get more retarded.

That's actually impressive.
 
2013-05-01 06:04:35 PM  

Calmamity: EvilEgg: Wouldn't the manufacturers just say "great!" and add a second shift or something?

As I understand it, the manufacturers are all running at full capacity (supposedly), and the next step would be building new facilities, which none of them are willing to roll the dice on.


I want someone knowledgeable to explain this to me...

The ammo plants have been running at maximum capacity for YEARS now. Since Obama took office, they've been running extra shifts and cranking out huge quantities of ammo. In the last 5 months it went full retard - one of my nephews who works at Walmart said that a skid of ammo came in and people were taking vacation days to come in and buy the maximum allowed, once word got to them. One guy brought in his 5 year old and 7 year old to try to buy extra ammo under their names (no-go, not even at Walmart).

So who is stockpiling all of this? Joe Bob can't possibly be hoarding 250,000 rounds of 22LR in his basement. So is all the ammo winding up with shadowy consortiums? Speculators? And there just aren't enough ranges in the US to burn this much.
 
2013-05-01 06:05:03 PM  

tuna fingers: Mimic_Octopus: crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ?  Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer.   A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?

Any shortage is due to people like you scared of your own shadows.  Funny little circle of fear you've brought upon yourselves.


i'm not scared of anything you idiot, where the fark did this retarded talking point come from ? the same rejects in tight jeans that came up with sports car or hummer = small dick ?  .  and it is not supply and demand, it is not even making it to the shelf to be bought.
 
2013-05-01 06:05:49 PM  

CynicalLA: This guy is definitely a NRA plant.  Good job.


*snerk* It'd probably pay better and be easier than grad school.

Anyway, their finances are pubic record and have been widely reported on by neutral third-parties. The Wikipedia's got a fairly good summary and links to citations.
 
2013-05-01 06:07:24 PM  

ZeroPly: Calmamity: EvilEgg: Wouldn't the manufacturers just say "great!" and add a second shift or something?

As I understand it, the manufacturers are all running at full capacity (supposedly), and the next step would be building new facilities, which none of them are willing to roll the dice on.

I want someone knowledgeable to explain this to me...

The ammo plants have been running at maximum capacity for YEARS now. Since Obama took office, they've been running extra shifts and cranking out huge quantities of ammo. In the last 5 months it went full retard - one of my nephews who works at Walmart said that a skid of ammo came in and people were taking vacation days to come in and buy the maximum allowed, once word got to them. One guy brought in his 5 year old and 7 year old to try to buy extra ammo under their names (no-go, not even at Walmart).

So who is stockpiling all of this? Joe Bob can't possibly be hoarding 250,000 rounds of 22LR in his basement. So is all the ammo winding up with shadowy consortiums? Speculators? And there just aren't enough ranges in the US to burn this much.


You seem to have answered your own question.
 
2013-05-01 06:08:59 PM  

ModernLuddite: I know that I'm about 200 years behind here, but damn it seems like America wakes up to each new day and somehow manages to get more retarded.

That's actually impressive.


Americans excel at retardation so much so that we've scientifically increased the brains retardation capacity. Your typical human would die from exposure to just 30% the amount of retardation an American brain has.
 
2013-05-01 06:10:00 PM  

Shvetz: detritus: Except the DHS has been buying a ridiculous amount of hollow point ammo under the Obama administration, and good luck finding any on the shelves right now.  Regardless of the intent, the industry has not been able to keep up with civilian demand.

This is why the NRA is not against it. The NRA has become a lobbying arm of the firearm and ammo industries. Anyways, why exactly do people need hollow point rounds for self defense?


Are you suggesting that people don't use the most effective self-defense round for self-defense?
 
2013-05-01 06:11:21 PM  

CynicalLA: KittyGlitterSparkles: Also, if you know where to look on the internet, you can find ammo. Luckygunner has plenty of 223, 9mm, 40 cal, 7.62x39 ect. At least they did last night.

You guys remind me of drug addicts.


I'm definitely the cocaine guy in that case... .416 rounds are $5.50 a pop and I need to buy 100 of them before taking Barrett's introductory shooting course this year.

/will have my shiny new rifle any day now, yay!
//trying to figure out the whole "reloading" thing
 
2013-05-01 06:13:38 PM  

Mimic_Octopus: tuna fingers: Mimic_Octopus: crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ?  Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer.   A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?

Any shortage is due to people like you scared of your own shadows.  Funny little circle of fear you've brought upon yourselves.

i'm not scared of anything you idiot, where the fark did this retarded talking point come from ? the same rejects in tight jeans that came up with sports car or hummer = small dick ?  .  and it is not supply and demand, it is not even making it to the shelf to be bought.


Sure it is.  The demand is just far surpassing the supply.  There are many more stores in the game (because they can make a lot of money off of suckers who are hoarding) and online sales are increasing.  Same amount of ammo through more distribution channels leads to a false sense of scarcity.  Economics 101.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/22/guns-and-ammo-supply-and-demand-an d- why-price-gouging-is-good/

.
 
2013-05-01 06:14:42 PM  

FlashHarry: somebody should add up all the time and money the GOP has spent since 2010 drafting bullshiat legislation like this, the 36 obamacare repeals, reading the constitution aloud, etc. etc.


Current count is 40, actually.
 
2013-05-01 06:15:22 PM  

ZeroPly: So who is stockpiling all of this? Joe Bob can't possibly be hoarding 250,000 rounds of 22LR in his basement. So is all the ammo winding up with shadowy consortiums? Speculators? And there just aren't enough ranges in the US to burn this much.


There's a fair amount of people "flipping" ammo for a profit on sites like GunBroker.com. It's annoying for legitimate, non-panicky buyers, as it cuts out regular supply and raises prices on what's available.

It wouldn't surprise me if people are stockpiling what ammo they can get.

/wishes people would stop panic-buying
 
2013-05-01 06:15:31 PM  

GUTSU: Shvetz: detritus: Except the DHS has been buying a ridiculous amount of hollow point ammo under the Obama administration, and good luck finding any on the shelves right now.  Regardless of the intent, the industry has not been able to keep up with civilian demand.

This is why the NRA is not against it. The NRA has become a lobbying arm of the firearm and ammo industries. Anyways, why exactly do people need hollow point rounds for self defense?

Are you suggesting that people don't use the most effective self-defense round for self-defense?


How often are these guys getting robbed that they need thousands of rounds of hollow points?
 
2013-05-01 06:18:27 PM  

heypete: ZeroPly: So who is stockpiling all of this? Joe Bob can't possibly be hoarding 250,000 rounds of 22LR in his basement. So is all the ammo winding up with shadowy consortiums? Speculators? And there just aren't enough ranges in the US to burn this much.

There's a fair amount of people "flipping" ammo for a profit on sites like GunBroker.com. It's annoying for legitimate, non-panicky buyers, as it cuts out regular supply and raises prices on what's available.

It wouldn't surprise me if people are stockpiling what ammo they can get.

/wishes people would stop panic-buying


The outcome of buyers not waiting for seasonal sales or hunting season specials or rebates is that manufacturers will never again feel that they need to have seasonal sales or hunting season specials or rebates.

For all you regular hunters out there paying top dollar, thank a right wing gun nut.
 
2013-05-01 06:18:37 PM  
When Senator Imhofe-hotep is not holding the fort against imaginary bands of environmentalists plotting to rape and scalp you, he's holding the fort aganst imaginary bands of socialist Sekret Muslims plotting to take your guns and then join the commie environmentalsts in raping and scalping you.

There goes the last shred of credibility that the man might have had at some point before whoring himself to the Koch Brothers or whoever it is that owns the fossil fuel reserves of the Great State of Oklahomo, where the bull shiat is as high as an elephant's arse.

IMHOFE, PEOPLE. IT'S THE SAME GUY. HE HAS ZERO CREDIBILITY AND MAKES FOX NEWS LOOK LIKE GOSPEL.
 
2013-05-01 06:20:15 PM  

ZeroPly: trying to figure out the whole "reloading" thing


Give it a shot, so to speak. You might have some difficulty finding supplies in the current market, but in general it can make shooting uncommon, expensive ammo considerably cheaper. If you're shooting in competitions, you can make match-grade ammo cheaper and more consistently than commercial match ammo.

In ordinary market conditions, I can reload 5.56mm NATO ammo using higher-quality components for about half the retail price of common factory loads.

/just be sure to verify the reloading recipe from two independent sources to make sure its sensible and not dangerous
//don't smoke around gunpowder
 
2013-05-01 06:20:46 PM  

heypete:

/wishes people would stop panic-buying


Same thing happened to rice a few years ago. Artificial shortage. There never actually was any, but due to people thinking there was, herd mentality kicked in. They bought up more rice than they needed in a panic, thus creating an actual shortage.
 
2013-05-01 06:21:05 PM  

ZeroPly: Joe Bob can't possibly be hoarding 250,000 rounds of 22LR in his basement.


Sure he can and I think I know someone who is close.

imageshack.us

That's the size of a pint milk carton and used to cost $6-7.
 
2013-05-01 06:23:38 PM  
heypete
Loki-L:
To be fair, if there was such a conspiracy, the NRA who is wholly in the pocket of the gun and ammunition manufacturers would naturally be in on it since it would make their bosses money.

Care to show a citation for your claim about the NRA being in the pocket of gun & ammo makers?
According to their tax records about half their annual income is from things like advertising (they have several magazines and publications in which they sell ad space)


Not being in the US, I've sever seen any NRA publications.
But if I had to take a wild guess at what industries a gun club magazine sells most of its ad space to, I wouldn't put flowers and make-up at the top of my list.

/ well, unless the make-up and flowers are part of a camouflage supply set
 
2013-05-01 06:24:03 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: GUTSU: Shvetz: detritus: Except the DHS has been buying a ridiculous amount of hollow point ammo under the Obama administration, and good luck finding any on the shelves right now.  Regardless of the intent, the industry has not been able to keep up with civilian demand.

This is why the NRA is not against it. The NRA has become a lobbying arm of the firearm and ammo industries. Anyways, why exactly do people need hollow point rounds for self defense?

Are you suggesting that people don't use the most effective self-defense round for self-defense?

How often are these guys getting robbed that they need thousands of rounds of hollow points?


Ever played Galaga?  It's a lot like that I think.
 
2013-05-01 06:24:49 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: How often are these guys getting robbed that they need thousands of rounds of hollow points?


It's quite common for people to take training courses and practice using the same ammo as they would use in a self-defense situation because it allows them to become accustomed to how the ammo performs (different types of ammo have varying recoil), ensure that it's reliable in their gun (due to the bullet shape, hollowpoints can occasionally run into feeding issues that FMJ bullets don't), etc.

Certain companies like Speer offer training ammo that's ballistically identical to their self-defense loads but use cheaper FMJ bullets for training, but not all companies do this.
 
2013-05-01 06:25:12 PM  

heypete: ZeroPly: So who is stockpiling all of this? Joe Bob can't possibly be hoarding 250,000 rounds of 22LR in his basement. So is all the ammo winding up with shadowy consortiums? Speculators? And there just aren't enough ranges in the US to burn this much.

There's a fair amount of people "flipping" ammo for a profit on sites like GunBroker.com. It's annoying for legitimate, non-panicky buyers, as it cuts out regular supply and raises prices on what's available.

It wouldn't surprise me if people are stockpiling what ammo they can get.

/wishes people would stop panic-buying



Without getting into all the politics, this doesn't make sense to me from a strictly economic viewpoint...

Panic buying (generators, food, bottled water, back hoes, etc) is always short term as far as I know. How can you possibly have a panic buy that lasts years? The barrier to entry to set up a new ammo plant can't be that high, that an established player can't do it. We're not talking about a nuclear plant here - just machining lines.

We should have hit saturation years ago. The only explanation is that people are hoarding. But even with hoarding, there are limits. IIRC 22LR production is something like 2 billion rounds per year. That's 80 rounds for every person in the US, of whom the overwhelming majority don't even shoot regularly.
 
2013-05-01 06:28:25 PM  

notto: kortex: Fark is so very liberal these days.  It almost makes me want to stop reading the site.  Sadly, I enjoy the humor.

Reality has a liberal bias.


No, it doesn't.  Your perception of reality is distorted by your liberal bias.

Today's Fark is way left of center.  Fark of yesteryear was much more centrist in dispensing snark.
 
2013-05-01 06:30:32 PM  

heypete: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: How often are these guys getting robbed that they need thousands of rounds of hollow points?

It's quite common for people to take training courses and practice using the same ammo as they would use in a self-defense situation because it allows them to become accustomed to how the ammo performs (different types of ammo have varying recoil), ensure that it's reliable in their gun (due to the bullet shape, hollowpoints can occasionally run into feeding issues that FMJ bullets don't), etc.

Certain companies like Speer offer training ammo that's ballistically identical to their self-defense loads but use cheaper FMJ bullets for training, but not all companies do this.


I'm just taking issue with the argument that these types of ammo are predominately used for self defence. Do you really think that 51% of hollow points are fired in self defence? Seems our yearly body counts would be more ridiculous than they already are were that the case.
 
2013-05-01 06:30:43 PM  

ZeroPly: heypete: ZeroPly: So who is stockpiling all of this? Joe Bob can't possibly be hoarding 250,000 rounds of 22LR in his basement. So is all the ammo winding up with shadowy consortiums? Speculators? And there just aren't enough ranges in the US to burn this much.

There's a fair amount of people "flipping" ammo for a profit on sites like GunBroker.com. It's annoying for legitimate, non-panicky buyers, as it cuts out regular supply and raises prices on what's available.

It wouldn't surprise me if people are stockpiling what ammo they can get.

/wishes people would stop panic-buying


Without getting into all the politics, this doesn't make sense to me from a strictly economic viewpoint...

Panic buying (generators, food, bottled water, back hoes, etc) is always short term as far as I know. How can you possibly have a panic buy that lasts years? The barrier to entry to set up a new ammo plant can't be that high, that an established player can't do it. We're not talking about a nuclear plant here - just machining lines.

We should have hit saturation years ago. The only explanation is that people are hoarding. But even with hoarding, there are limits. IIRC 22LR production is something like 2 billion rounds per year. That's 80 rounds for every person in the US, of whom the overwhelming majority don't even shoot regularly.


Its probably a combination of old hoarders, new hoarders, new gun owners, and new gun owners who have become new hoarders and new gun owners doing a lot more shooting.  Ammunition acts like a perishable and non-perishable item depending on the market and buyer.

It is clear that every single round put on the shelf is being purchased.   It is also clear that a lot of ammo is being put on the market. Are you suggesting that the supply is going somewhere else?  Where do you think it is going?
 
2013-05-01 06:30:53 PM  

The Voice of Doom: Not being in the US, I've sever seen any NRA publications.
But if I had to take a wild guess at what industries a gun club magazine sells most of its ad space to, I wouldn't put flowers and make-up at the top of my list.


Their Form 990s are public record and will tell you all you need to know about their finances (including profit and loss on the NRA cafe).  Membership dues alone are about half.  Money from all gun industry sources is way less, even if you assume a healthy percentage of their advertising is from there (which it probably is, to be fair).
 
2013-05-01 06:31:21 PM  
The government doesn't have money to spend on crap like billions of bullets.

That's reason enough to curb how much they can horde.

Is the government trying to make it difficult to get ammo?  Hard to say.  It's really not likely, but it's plausible.  The government doesn't have a sterling record and our bureacrats in these particular agencies can be jackasses.

I mean, Fast and Furious is thousands of times more evil, so this is peanuts.

Anyway, time to abolish more than a few of the agencies while capping budgets all around.

Also time for a balanced budget amendment.
 
2013-05-01 06:31:33 PM  

Molavian: notto: kortex: Fark is so very liberal these days.  It almost makes me want to stop reading the site.  Sadly, I enjoy the humor.

Reality has a liberal bias.

No, it doesn't.  Your perception of reality is distorted by your liberal bias.

Today's Fark is way left of center.  Fark of yesteryear was much more centrist in dispensing snark.


What exactly is 'liberal' about this thread?  Please be specific.
 
2013-05-01 06:32:22 PM  

Arcanum: The government doesn't have money to spend on crap like billions of bullets.


Good thing they are not buying billions of bullets then.
 
2013-05-01 06:34:43 PM  

The Voice of Doom: Not being in the US, I've sever seen any NRA publications.
But if I had to take a wild guess at what industries a gun club magazine sells most of its ad space to, I wouldn't put flowers and make-up at the top of my list.

/ well, unless the make-up and flowers are part of a camouflage supply set


Now  that is a mental image. :)

That said, you're absolutely right: quite a lot of the ads in their publications are for firearms-related products (guns, ammo, optics, accessories, etc.). As you say, it makes sense: the people who subscribe are clearly interested in such things, so it's sensible for them to advertise in those publications.

Still, that's a normal business relationship. Half of the NRA's annual income is from membership dues, and that's the largest single component of their income. Of course, the interests of industry and consumers align and overlap in many ways (people want to legally buy guns and associated products and services, and industry wants to sell them), but that doesn't mean that the NRA's in thrall to the industry.

The National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) is the actual industry trade group for the firearms industry, and they're unaffiliated with the NRA.
 
2013-05-01 06:35:53 PM  
The government is buying a lot of ammunition. Clearly more ammunition than normal. It just isn't a conspiracy, it is a coincidence. I am guessing that it is the perfect storm of two things..... They had contracts in place that were expiring soon that let them purchase at the pre-crazy prices, and they needed to get the orders in before the sequester kicked in.
 
2013-05-01 06:36:11 PM  

Molavian: notto: kortex: Fark is so very liberal these days.  It almost makes me want to stop reading the site.  Sadly, I enjoy the humor.

Reality has a liberal bias.

No, it doesn't.  Your perception of reality is distorted by your liberal bias.

Today's Fark is way left of center.  Fark of yesteryear was much more centrist in dispensing snark.


That'll happen when you define "center" as a fixed distance from yourself in either direction rather than the actual median of contemporary political views (as if one axis was sufficient to begin with).
 
2013-05-01 06:36:34 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: heypete: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: How often are these guys getting robbed that they need thousands of rounds of hollow points?

It's quite common for people to take training courses and practice using the same ammo as they would use in a self-defense situation because it allows them to become accustomed to how the ammo performs (different types of ammo have varying recoil), ensure that it's reliable in their gun (due to the bullet shape, hollowpoints can occasionally run into feeding issues that FMJ bullets don't), etc.

Certain companies like Speer offer training ammo that's ballistically identical to their self-defense loads but use cheaper FMJ bullets for training, but not all companies do this.

I'm just taking issue with the argument that these types of ammo are predominately used for self defence. Do you really think that 51% of hollow points are fired in self defence? Seems our yearly body counts would be more ridiculous than they already are were that the case.


The point is not that they're getting fired at people.  It's that you fire thousands of them a year at the range making sure you don't suck the one time you might need to fire half a dozen at a person.

(The math adds up quick.  If you shoot 100 rounds a week at the range, over a year you'll blow through over 5000 rounds.  Guys like my dad who shoot competitively may run through many, many times that.)
 
2013-05-01 06:40:15 PM  
You shouldn't be allowed to be a legislator in a nominally Capitalist nation if you don't understand the basics of how free markets work.

This doesn't even make good 'on the take' sense, since it will hurt ammo makers bottom line.
 
2013-05-01 06:41:02 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: I'm just taking issue with the argument that these types of ammo are predominately used for self defence. Do you really think that 51% of hollow points are fired in self defence? Seems our yearly body counts would be more ridiculous than they already are were that the case.


Certainly not: the vast majority of hollowpoints are used at the range for training or sit in magazines or boxes for later use.

The point is that hollowpoints are an effective round for self-defense, so it makes sense that people would buy them for that purpose. It also makes sense that people would use that same ammo for training and practice so they would be reasonable prepared and well-trained in case they ever needed to use their gun in self-defense.
 
2013-05-01 06:42:13 PM  

mbillips:

But seriously, people, Cheaperthandirt.com has NO .32 ACP ammo AT ALL. That's not a cop or military round; it's not even a very good self defense round. The old lady runs it through her Walther PPK when we got to the range, and I don't want to have to buy 1,000 rounds just to be able to buy it at all.


Cheaperthandirt is a gouger, I hope they crash and burn when this whole hysteria dies down. Anyhow, here's some Fiocchi .32 ACP for $0.31/rnd (Box of 50 for $15.49, max of 10 boxes).
 
2013-05-01 06:42:40 PM  

notto: Molavian: notto: kortex: Fark is so very liberal these days.  It almost makes me want to stop reading the site.  Sadly, I enjoy the humor.

Reality has a liberal bias.

No, it doesn't.  Your perception of reality is distorted by your liberal bias.

Today's Fark is way left of center.  Fark of yesteryear was much more centrist in dispensing snark.

What exactly is 'liberal' about this thread?  Please be specific.


i1156.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-01 06:47:47 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: Inflatable Rhetoric: Anyone who was ever in the military knows the "citizens" don't have a hope of standing up against them.
1 minigun would settle all the discussions.

Or an Apache helicopter from miles away, like in all those FLIR videos from the middle east. Many of those guys have AKs too, and a lot of good it does them.


Yes, you're a very clever fellow -- in a standard battle guys with small arms are going to lose against drones or assault aircraft.  Which is why if, God forbid, it ever came down to it, that's exactly the kind of battle you would rarely see.  Insurgent tactics are not a black art -- what you would see a lot of is infiltration and sabotage by the rebels and police-style raids by the official forces.  Also don't forget that there are significant elements within the police and military that will simply refuse to go to outright war against their own countrymen.

The balance shifts radically when you plug the same numbers into an insurgency scenario (with large numbers of defectors) instead of a straight battlefield conflict.  It's called asymmetrical warfare for a reason.
 
2013-05-01 06:49:23 PM  

heypete: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: I'm just taking issue with the argument that these types of ammo are predominately used for self defence. Do you really think that 51% of hollow points are fired in self defence? Seems our yearly body counts would be more ridiculous than they already are were that the case.

Certainly not: the vast majority of hollowpoints are used at the range for training or sit in magazines or boxes for later use.

The point is that hollowpoints are an effective round for self-defense, so it makes sense that people would buy them for that purpose. It also makes sense that people would use that same ammo for training and practice so they would be reasonable prepared and well-trained in case they ever needed to use their gun in self-defense.


Is the way a hollow point handles while firing in a self defence situation (relatively close combat) so markedly different from normal ammunition? It's an honest question. I don't really care one way or another what sorts of ammo are flying off the shelves. The whole thing just seems odd to me unless someone is expecting to have to use deadly force at range to defend themselves, where all of a bullet's idiosyncrasies come into play.

An extra spread of a few millimeters isn't going to mean much over 5-10 feet.
 
2013-05-01 06:52:45 PM  

Molavian: notto: Molavian: notto: kortex: Fark is so very liberal these days.  It almost makes me want to stop reading the site.  Sadly, I enjoy the humor.

Reality has a liberal bias.

No, it doesn't.  Your perception of reality is distorted by your liberal bias.

Today's Fark is way left of center.  Fark of yesteryear was much more centrist in dispensing snark.

What exactly is 'liberal' about this thread?  Please be specific.

[i1156.photobucket.com image 133x133]


Fark: Where I can be enraged and amused at the same time. I love you guys.
 
2013-05-01 06:53:22 PM  

Mimic_Octopus: crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ?  Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer.   A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?


White people problems.
 
2013-05-01 06:54:00 PM  
Gun-mongers Own Party.
 
2013-05-01 06:54:37 PM  

Molavian: notto: Molavian: notto: kortex: Fark is so very liberal these days.  It almost makes me want to stop reading the site.  Sadly, I enjoy the humor.

Reality has a liberal bias.

No, it doesn't.  Your perception of reality is distorted by your liberal bias.

Today's Fark is way left of center.  Fark of yesteryear was much more centrist in dispensing snark.

What exactly is 'liberal' about this thread?  Please be specific.

[i1156.photobucket.com image 133x133]


So you got nothing.  To a lot of idiots anything they don't agree with is "liberal".
 
2013-05-01 06:56:07 PM  

Molavian: notto: kortex: Fark is so very liberal these days.  It almost makes me want to stop reading the site.  Sadly, I enjoy the humor.

Reality has a liberal bias.

No, it doesn't.  Your perception of reality is distorted by your liberal bias.

Today's Fark is way left of center.  Fark of yesteryear was much more centrist in dispensing snark.


Maybe if all the conservatives here hadn't gone full retard.....
 
2013-05-01 06:56:33 PM  
I'm kind of disappointed it's false. I wouldn't have any problem at all if it were true.
 
2013-05-01 06:57:20 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Is the way a hollow point handles while firing in a self defence situation (relatively close combat) so markedly different from normal ammunition? It's an honest question. I don't really care one way or another what sorts of ammo are flying off the shelves. The whole thing just seems odd to me unless someone is expecting to have to use deadly force at range to defend themselves, where all of a bullet's idiosyncrasies come into play.

An extra spread of a few millimeters isn't going to mean much over 5-10 feet.


Perhaps you're confusing hollowpoint ammo (which expands in diameter after striking tissue) with shotshells, which consist of a bunch of separate pellets that spread out over distance. If not, I may be misinterpreting your question.

Hollowpoints have significant advantages in self-defense situations: ordinary, full metal jacket pullets can easily overpenetrate a bad guy, causing relatively minor injuries. Additionally, they can penetrate a surprising number of interior walls and pose more of a risk to bystanders. Hollowpoints expand on impact, allowing them to dissipate much more energy into the target (e.g. a bad guy) rather than just going "through-and-through". Since they're more likely to stop within the target, the risk of overpenetration is significantly lessened. They also are less likely to penetrate walls and pose less of a risk to bystanders.

In short, yes, hollowpoint ammo has significantly different characteristics than ordinary, full metal jacket ammo in regards to self-defense situations that make it more effective for self-defense and less of a risk to bystanders.
 
2013-05-01 06:59:17 PM  

notto: ZeroPly: heypete: ZeroPly: So who is stockpiling all of this? Joe Bob can't possibly be hoarding 250,000 rounds of 22LR in his basement. So is all the ammo winding up with shadowy consortiums? Speculators? And there just aren't enough ranges in the US to burn this much.

There's a fair amount of people "flipping" ammo for a profit on sites like GunBroker.com. It's annoying for legitimate, non-panicky buyers, as it cuts out regular supply and raises prices on what's available.

It wouldn't surprise me if people are stockpiling what ammo they can get.

/wishes people would stop panic-buying


Without getting into all the politics, this doesn't make sense to me from a strictly economic viewpoint...

Panic buying (generators, food, bottled water, back hoes, etc) is always short term as far as I know. How can you possibly have a panic buy that lasts years? The barrier to entry to set up a new ammo plant can't be that high, that an established player can't do it. We're not talking about a nuclear plant here - just machining lines.

We should have hit saturation years ago. The only explanation is that people are hoarding. But even with hoarding, there are limits. IIRC 22LR production is something like 2 billion rounds per year. That's 80 rounds for every person in the US, of whom the overwhelming majority don't even shoot regularly.

Its probably a combination of old hoarders, new hoarders, new gun owners, and new gun owners who have become new hoarders and new gun owners doing a lot more shooting.  Ammunition acts like a perishable and non-perishable item depending on the market and buyer.

It is clear that every single round put on the shelf is being purchased.   It is also clear that a lot of ammo is being put on the market. Are you suggesting that the supply is going somewhere else?  Where do you think it is going?



Beats me. If everyone were hoarding at a high rate, this would make sense. But anecdotally speaking, I know plenty of gun owners, but not a single one who is hoarding ammo beyond a sensible stock. So there must be hoarders out there with literally millions of rounds. But then that doesn't make sense because if the manufacturers decided "enough is enough", and started up some new plants, ammo prices would drop like a stone as everyone unloaded their excess stock.
 
2013-05-01 07:00:59 PM  

CynicalLA: KittyGlitterSparkles: The DHS has admitted they're buying 1.6 billion rounds. The conspiracies revovle around why.

Department of Homeland Security.  I wonder why.


Do they really need 1,000+ rounds per armed officer?
 
2013-05-01 07:01:25 PM  

Molavian: What exactly is 'liberal' about this thread? Please be specific.

i1156.photobucket.com


0.2/10

mainly due to the fact that a stick figure dry humping 'your mom' is way more conservative than liberal.
 
2013-05-01 07:05:35 PM  
If the GOP gains control of the senate and sures up the house a bit in '14 it might get the hording and panic buying under control a bit since Obama can't run in '16 and I don't think Biden or Hillary either one has the cult of personality to ride his coat tails into the white house in '16, especially since he barely squeaked his own re election out in '12.
 
2013-05-01 07:05:50 PM  

Cataholic: Do they really need 1,000+ rounds per armed officer?


I sure hope so. 1,000 rounds per year is around the bare minimum needed to keep up one's skills. Most state and local police officers I know shoot several thousand per year, as do most of the private gun owners I know.

1,000 rounds would allow someone to fire ~83 shots per month. That isn't really much at all -- I normally shoot 100-200 rounds per range trip.
 
2013-05-01 07:09:03 PM  

spickus: ZeroPly: Joe Bob can't possibly be hoarding 250,000 rounds of 22LR in his basement.

Sure he can and I think I know someone who is close.

That's the size of a pint milk carton and used to cost $6-7.


Buying one or two of these a week for a few years can really add up. It's hard to believe how much a brick of .22lr costs if you can find them. I am getting the same feeling I had when my $5 silver hit $40.
 
2013-05-01 07:09:52 PM  

Mimic_Octopus: crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ?  Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer.   A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?


Yeah, and race gas is $9.50/gallon, but I still go to the track and have fun and accept it as the cost of enjoying my favorite things. I don't look at the government and accuse them of hoarding that strategic oil reserve and refusing to give me some relief so I can burn rubber for less money.

Nobody, including the government, owes you cheap ways to practice your hobby. Do something else if you can't afford it.

/Is there anything people won't whine about?
 
2013-05-01 07:11:15 PM  

Shvetz: detritus: Except the DHS has been buying a ridiculous amount of hollow point ammo under the Obama administration, and good luck finding any on the shelves right now.  Regardless of the intent, the industry has not been able to keep up with civilian demand.

This is why the NRA is not against it. The NRA has become a lobbying arm of the firearm and ammo industries. Anyways, why exactly do people need hollow point rounds for self defense?


Because hollow point rounds are designed for maximum stopping power against human targets.  They also have reduced ability to punch through or ricochet heavy targets like walls and vehicles (they still can, but since they are designed to squash and basically splatter on impact, they deliver most of their force to the first thing they hit)

Thus, they are ideal for shooting to stop somebody (i.e. like an intruder or assailant), and have less chance of hurting someone if you miss and it hits a wall or some other obstruction.

Hollow point ammunition is not used by the military only because of Geneva Convention restrictions.  It's quite popular with police, and for self defense.  It's too expensive to use for generic target practice, but if you're loading a magazine with the idea it might actually be used in a life-or-death shooting, hollow point is one of your better choices.
 
2013-05-01 07:13:15 PM  

Calmamity: EvilEgg: Wouldn't the manufacturers just say "great!" and add a second shift or something?

As I understand it, the manufacturers are all running at full capacity (supposedly), and the next step would be building new facilities, which none of them are willing to roll the dice on.


Beware! Bullet bubble burst be bad business!
 
2013-05-01 07:14:19 PM  

Oldiron_79: If the GOP gains control of the senate and sures up the house a bit in '14 it might get the hording and panic buying under control a bit since Obama can't run in '16 and I don't think Biden or Hillary either one has the cult of personality to ride his coat tails into the white house in '16, especially since he barely squeaked his own re election out in '12.


depends on who the GOP run, hopefully the line up will look a lot better than the clowns they attempted to run against the Dems last round.  Literally, it was a circus.
 
2013-05-01 07:15:10 PM  
As much as I'd enjoy a good Obummer conspiracy.... a couple of things.
1. The serious Tin Foil Hat enthusiasts did their stockpiling in Nov. 2008. The "panic" people ruining the retail market right now are skewing the market so badly there is no way to really know what is available.
2. According to the dealer I buy my ammo from, there is more of a direct correlation between the spot prices of the metals used in ammo manufacture and current prices than a correlation to Gov't orders. Wholesalers have contracts too, and if they were being screwed we'd be hearing about it.
3. Buying an AR and a case of .223 right now is like signing up for swimming lessons after your plane has hit the water. If you seriously believe you're gonna gear up for the revolution at this late date, please, just stop watching Preppers and leave the ammo for those of us who enjoy the stuff without paranoia.
 
2013-05-01 07:17:11 PM  

Isitoveryet: Molavian: What exactly is 'liberal' about this thread? Please be specific.

i1156.photobucket.com

0.2/10

mainly due to the fact that a stick figure dry humping 'your mom' is way more conservative than liberal.


i184.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-01 07:18:22 PM  
guestofaguest.com

"You don't need no gun control, you know what you need? We need some bullet control. Man, we need to control the bullets, that's right. I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars... five thousand dollars per bullet... You know why? 'Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders.

Yeah! Every time somebody get shot we'd say, 'Damn, he must have done something ... shiat, he's got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ass.'

And people would think before they killed somebody if a bullet cost five thousand dollars. 'Man I would blow your farking head off...if I could afford it.' 'I'm gonna get me another job, I'm going to start saving some money, and you're a dead man. You'd better hope I can't get no bullets on layaway.'

So even if you get shot by a stray bullet, you wouldn't have to go to no doctor to get it taken out. Whoever shot you would take their bullet back, like "I believe you got my property."
 
2013-05-01 07:19:22 PM  

part of the problem: According to the dealer I buy my ammo from, there is more of a direct correlation between the spot prices of the metals used in ammo manufacture and current prices than a correlation to Gov't orders. Wholesalers have contracts too, and if they were being screwed we'd be hearing about it.


Indeed. While not related to past ammo shortages, there was a major landslide at a big US copper mine in the last week or so. That mine supplies about 17% of US copper according to an article I read. It wouldn't surprise me to see that having an effect on ammo production and other industries that use copper.
 
2013-05-01 07:20:40 PM  

part of the problem: 3. Buying an AR and a case of .223 right now is like signing up for swimming lessons after your plane has hit the water


seriously. who can afford to have fun when you watch $3 zing down the rage with every trigger pull?

or am i going over a bit on the price of that ammunition?
 
2013-05-01 07:21:35 PM  

Molavian: Isitoveryet: Molavian: What exactly is 'liberal' about this thread? Please be specific.

i1156.photobucket.com

0.2/10

mainly due to the fact that a stick figure dry humping 'your mom' is way more conservative than liberal.

[i184.photobucket.com image 500x500]


are you trying to seduce me?
 
2013-05-01 07:23:34 PM  
Isitoveryet: Oldiron_79: If the GOP gains control of the senate and sures up the house a bit in '14 it might get the hording and panic buying under control a bit since Obama can't run in '16 and I don't think Biden or Hillary either one has the cult of personality to ride his coat tails into the white house in '16, especially since he barely squeaked his own re election out in '12.

depends on who the GOP run, hopefully the line up will look a lot better than the clowns they attempted to run against the Dems last round.  Literally, it was a circus.


Well how well or poorly the GOP chooses in '16 will have an effect on their odds, but as narrow of a margin as Obama got re elected by with his cult of personality I don't think any of the Obvious '16 Dem frontrunners like Biden, Hillary, or Kerry 2 Electric Boogaloo will win unless the GOP just farks up that badly.
 
2013-05-01 07:25:24 PM  
Oh come on! For a party that is always complaining about wasting tax dollars they sure like wasting them on this kind of idiotic BS.

Republicans, get control of these idiots. You are becoming a laughingstock! and no, the stuff done by Democrats doesn't even come close to the kind of sheer idiocy and lunacy being displayed by the right over the past three years. You look like complete fools.

I fail to see how the U.S. can sustain its status in the world if these morons manage to control the House, Senate and Presidency.
 
2013-05-01 07:25:52 PM  

heypete: Indeed. While not related to past ammo shortages, there was a major landslide at a big US copper mine in the last week or so. That mine supplies about 17% of US copper according to an article I read. It wouldn't surprise me to see that having an effect on ammo production and other industries that use copper.


Addendum: here's an article that details the scale of the landslide, its effects on the industry, and has some stunning photos of the mine. It's crazy to think of the mine as being 3 miles across and more than 3/4 miles deep.
 
2013-05-01 07:26:25 PM  

Mimic_Octopus: tuna fingers: Mimic_Octopus: crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ?  Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer.   A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?

Any shortage is due to people like you scared of your own shadows.  Funny little circle of fear you've brought upon yourselves.

i'm not scared of anything you idiot, where the fark did this retarded talking point come from ? the same rejects in tight jeans that came up with sports car or hummer = small dick ?  .  and it is not supply and demand, it is not even making it to the shelf to be bought.


It is being bought up by private parties in bulk purchases in massive amounts at the wholesale level. What makes it to the store after is then gobbled up by the remaining nutters paranoid they'll never see ammo again.

I've seen more than one forum with people talking about having 20+ thousands of rounds stored up, some saying they wont be happy till they get even more.

It isn't the government. The DHS purchase was a contract to purchase UP TO that amount over 5 years. It is a standard government consumables supply contract.
 
2013-05-01 07:28:58 PM  

Isitoveryet: part of the problem: 3. Buying an AR and a case of .223 right now is like signing up for swimming lessons after your plane has hit the water

seriously. who can afford to have fun when you watch $3 zing down the rage with every trigger pull?

or am i going over a bit on the price of that ammunition?


Even at full retail for "name brand" that sounds a little high and outside but your mileage may vary.

I buy different grades of ammo for different things. I feed plinking rifles grade z surplus from Wherethehellistan. My snobbier guns get US competition grade.

But then (adjusts tin foil hat) I bought what I assume is a lifetime supply years ago and just top it off/ rotate stock as I go.

You can still find deals if you look. Be prepared to buy a helluva lot of it for a real discount though.

happy hunting
 
2013-05-01 07:31:11 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: GUTSU: Shvetz: detritus: Except the DHS has been buying a ridiculous amount of hollow point ammo under the Obama administration, and good luck finding any on the shelves right now.  Regardless of the intent, the industry has not been able to keep up with civilian demand.

This is why the NRA is not against it. The NRA has become a lobbying arm of the firearm and ammo industries. Anyways, why exactly do people need hollow point rounds for self defense?

Are you suggesting that people don't use the most effective self-defense round for self-defense?

How often are these guys getting robbed that they need thousands of rounds of hollow points?


Are you against people becoming proficient with their weapon and ammo of choice? Different kinds of bullets have different ballistic characteristics.

People should practice with that they are going to be using, just like how you wouldn't practice for the big Ultimate Frisbee tournament by playing horseshoes.
 
2013-05-01 07:32:24 PM  

Oldiron_79: depends on who the GOP run, hopefully the line up will look a lot better than the clowns they attempted to run against the Dems last round. Literally, it was a circus.

Well how well or poorly the GOP chooses in '16 will have an effect on their odds, but as narrow of a margin as Obama got re elected by with his cult of personality I don't think any of the Obvious '16 Dem frontrunners like Biden, Hillary, or Kerry 2 Electric Boogaloo will win unless the GOP just farks up that badly.


it was a decisive electoral victory but a marginal although obvious popular victory for President Obama, and the bold is more likely than you may think.  have you been paying attention to what their legislative priorities are? NTM who the "celebrities" of the party are?
 
2013-05-01 07:32:30 PM  
heypete: heypete: Indeed. While not related to past ammo shortages, there was a major landslide at a big US copper mine in the last week or so. That mine supplies about 17% of US copper according to an article I read. It wouldn't surprise me to see that having an effect on ammo production and other industries that use copper.

Addendum: here's an article that details the scale of the landslide, its effects on the industry, and has some stunning photos of the mine. It's crazy to think of the mine as being 3 miles across and more than 3/4 miles deep.


Even with that collapse the price of scrap copper, while high, is far below the highest peak.
 
2013-05-01 07:32:41 PM  

Mimic_Octopus: crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ?  Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer.   A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?


The Federal Police Training Center alone burns through 15 million rounds a year.   And with all the morons hoarding ammo, the government is actually smart to buy it in bulk as it isn't going to get any cheaper.
 
2013-05-01 07:38:49 PM  

heypete: heypete: Indeed. While not related to past ammo shortages, there was a major landslide at a big US copper mine in the last week or so. That mine supplies about 17% of US copper according to an article I read. It wouldn't surprise me to see that having an effect on ammo production and other industries that use copper.

Addendum: here's an article that details the scale of the landslide, its effects on the industry, and has some stunning photos of the mine. It's crazy to think of the mine as being 3 miles across and more than 3/4 miles deep.


Holy crap that's a lot of earth.
thanks for the link.
 
2013-05-01 07:38:53 PM  

Isitoveryet: part of the problem: 3. Buying an AR and a case of .223 right now is like signing up for swimming lessons after your plane has hit the water

seriously. who can afford to have fun when you watch $3 zing down the rage with every trigger pull?

or am i going over a bit on the price of that ammunition?


Going a bit over on price, unless you're buying something like Ted Nugent ammo! lol  .223 is going for $0.60-$0.70/rnd for brass, though I've seen Wolf steel for that price too (WTF?).  AR's are actually getting relatively easy to find, I've seen a number of DPMS and Bushmasters for under $800, Colt LE6920's for under $1,200.
 
2013-05-01 07:40:24 PM  

part of the problem: happy hunting


IamSoSmart_S_M_R_T: Going a bit over on price


Thank you both.
 
2013-05-01 07:40:42 PM  
James 'How many deferments?' Inhofe.
 
2013-05-01 07:42:15 PM  

Sgt Otter: Triumph: That article is some world-class derp. The GAO is investigating DHS trying to figure out why it suddenly needs so much ammo and DHS doesn't have very good answers so far. It's an agency that obviously has way too big a budget. The legislation would stop agencies from accumulating massive stockpiles they don't need. In government, the trick is to make sure you spend up all your budget, so you don't get slashed the following year. This is about keeping government agencies from wasteful spending, not about the ammo supplies in retail stores.

I wondered about that.  In the military, you don't get rewarded with coming in under budget, and are allowed to keep your surplus for a rainy day.  The beancounters assume that since that's all you needed last fiscal year, then that's what you'll need this fiscal year.

You'll start seeing commanders placing orders for gigantic HDTVs for every flat surface in the headquarters building, and mass purchasing every ridiculous Mall Ninja accessory for their troops' M4s near the end of the fiscal year, because of that stupid line of thinking.


In practice, the military tends to be a tad bit conservative with spending on training, with the result that every year, in August and September (the end of the government fiscal year), units are all of a sudden sending people to every training course they can while scheduling training exercises and TDY tours, all to try to spend the until-then unspent portions of their training fund allocations (it is literally a use it or lose it situation, either they spend the money or it simply goes back to the Treasury as unspent allocations from a previous year that cannot be spent in the new fiscal year by law). If Congress would simply allow them to carry it over to the new fiscal year (allowed by the Constitution, which allows an appropriation of funds for the military to cover a 2-year period), they might not go on their once-a-year binges of training spending.
 
2013-05-01 07:42:40 PM  
Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK) and Rep. Frank Lucas (R-OK)
Good, good are there any other bribe taking corrupt morons that would like to whizz away more of their day?
I mean if these idiots are doing this, it means that they aren't Fffffffuuuuuu-ing up anything else or taking kick backs or pay offs.  I say let 'em.
 
2013-05-01 07:53:32 PM  
 
2013-05-01 07:58:11 PM  
The common sense thing to do is to always trust your government.
 
2013-05-01 08:03:31 PM  

Princess Ryans Knickers: Don't worry! Guns are perfectly safe in the hands of responsible gun owners!


I'd say the fact that they kept it in a corner and left it loaded disqualifies them as "responsible gun owners."
 
2013-05-01 08:13:37 PM  
Could someone please invent a gun that reloads its own brass while firing or maybe a self- loading semi auto black powder rifle? Save a fortune on ammo. Thanks.
 
2013-05-01 08:15:31 PM  

Nick Nostril: The common sense thing to do is to always trust your government.


Trusting our government is how we ended up at war with two countries and a collapsed global economy all the while having nearly all our rights greatly curtailed at the same time.
 
2013-05-01 08:22:20 PM  
But if the government doesn't have anything to hide, they should have no problems stating their reasons or intentions.
 
2013-05-01 08:25:27 PM  

amquelbettamin: Could someone please invent a gun that reloads its own brass while firing or maybe a self- loading semi auto black powder rifle? Save a fortune on ammo. Thanks.


patentpending.blogs.com

.46 caliber ball.   30 Rounds a minute.

/ World's first assault rifle.
 
2013-05-01 08:37:20 PM  

Rent Party: amquelbettamin: Could someone please invent a gun that reloads its own brass while firing or maybe a self- loading semi auto black powder rifle? Save a fortune on ammo. Thanks.

.46 caliber ball.   30 Rounds a minute.

/ World's first assault rifle.


Cool!!
 
2013-05-01 08:39:20 PM  

ZeroPly: CynicalLA: KittyGlitterSparkles: Also, if you know where to look on the internet, you can find ammo. Luckygunner has plenty of 223, 9mm, 40 cal, 7.62x39 ect. At least they did last night.

You guys remind me of drug addicts.

I'm definitely the cocaine guy in that case... .416 rounds are $5.50 a pop and I need to buy 100 of them before taking Barrett's introductory shooting course this year.

/will have my shiny new rifle any day now, yay!
//trying to figure out the whole "reloading" thing


It's easy to do...if you can find primers (small pistol primers are impossible to find)
/ Also powder is getting hard to find
//Not to mention the bullets
 
2013-05-01 08:47:13 PM  

Isitoveryet: part of the problem: 3. Buying an AR and a case of .223 right now is like signing up for swimming lessons after your plane has hit the water

seriously. who can afford to have fun when you watch $3 zing down the rage with every trigger pull?

or am i going over a bit on the price of that ammunition?


Going over a bit.. Last time I checked it was a dollar a round
 
2013-05-01 08:49:01 PM  

amquelbettamin: Could someone please invent a gun that reloads its own brass while firing or maybe a self- loading semi auto black powder rifle? Save a fortune on ammo. Thanks.


Well you could always get a precharged pneumatic air rifle in 9mm, .45 or .50 calibre. You get like 10-15 rounds of air per charge from a scuba tank, and you just gotta feed it with projectiles, you can cast your own lead projectiles with molds. Quieter than a .22 short and has can fire a service calibre projectile at black powder calibre velocities.

They also have like .22 and .25 calibre ones with velocities similar to .22 lr and get something like a hundred or more rounds worth of air per charge.
 
2013-05-01 08:53:47 PM  
News Flash!  Ultra-right wing tinfoil hat blog makes up a bunch of bullcrap to scare you into buying whatever it is that they're selling this week!

Wait, that's news?
 
2013-05-01 08:54:53 PM  
Where do you think all these insurgencies in Egypt, Libya, Syria, etc are getting their ammo?
 
2013-05-01 08:55:01 PM  

KittyGlitterSparkles: The DHS has admitted they're buying 1.6 billion rounds. The conspiracies revovle around why.


Got a citation for that?

All I've heard is wingnuts CLAIMING that, and they've been wrong on everything since Muffingate.
 
2013-05-01 08:57:09 PM  

hemorrhoidal singularity: Triumph: That article is some world-class derp. The GAO is investigating DHS trying to figure out why it suddenly needs so much ammo and DHS doesn't have very good answers so far. It's an agency that obviously has way too big a budget. The legislation would stop agencies from accumulating massive stockpiles they don't need. In government, the trick is to make sure you spend up all your budget, so you don't get slashed the following year. This is about keeping government agencies from wasteful spending, not about the ammo supplies in retail stores.

"President Obama has been adamant about curbing law-abiding Americans' access and opportunities to exercise their Second Amendment rights," Inhofe said in a statement. "One way the Obama Administration is able to do this is by limiting what's available in the market with federal agencies purchasing unnecessary stockpiles of ammunition."

So it really IS about the ammo supplies in retail stores...according to the guy who WROTE THE BILL


We've already established Inhofe's a lying farkwad.
 
2013-05-01 08:59:58 PM  

Molavian: notto: kortex: Fark is so very liberal these days.  It almost makes me want to stop reading the site.  Sadly, I enjoy the humor.

Reality has a liberal bias.

No, it doesn't.  Your perception of reality is distorted by your liberal bias.

Today's Fark is way left of center.  Fark of yesteryear was much more centrist in dispensing snark.


Eh, if you spam the ignore button, you can turn this place into your own little Free Republic if you want.
You know, a precious little bubble, where they ban people who ask awkward questions, and hold each other in their star-spangled underwear.

In a manly way, of course.
 
2013-05-01 09:12:56 PM  
This is stimulus. If people think Obama is buying all the bullets then people will buy bullets and everyone in the bullet industry will get paid and spend their Obama stimulus money to stimulate the economy.

The incompetent, empty-suit wins again!
 
2013-05-01 09:21:28 PM  
Farking ammo. Last Friday on my way to work I saw people lined up at Gander Mountain at 6am. I stopped in there over the weekend and asked what that was all about. Ammo shipments come in on Fridays and people wait out there for hours to get in at 10:00 and grab up the box or two they're allotted.
 
2013-05-01 09:26:53 PM  
Never let reality mess with a perfectly good derp.
 
2013-05-01 09:44:16 PM  

FARK rebel soldier: I'm not old enough to be sure, but has there ever been this much horseshiat conspiracy theory stuff about a president before? All I can remember was them doing this to Clinton and, while ridiculous, it was never this fanciful or elaborate.


Are you familiar with the 9/11 "Truther" movement.  I don't pretend to understand it but the machinations on the part of then president Bush seem... intricate and fanciful.
 
2013-05-01 09:55:10 PM  

xmasbaby: FARK rebel soldier: I'm not old enough to be sure, but has there ever been this much horseshiat conspiracy theory stuff about a president before? All I can remember was them doing this to Clinton and, while ridiculous, it was never this fanciful or elaborate.

Are you familiar with the 9/11 "Truther" movement.  I don't pretend to understand it but the machinations on the part of then president Bush seem... intricate and fanciful.


The 9/11 troofers were far more outrageous than the birfers ever was, the OKC troofers are probably the only GOP derp that reaches the 9/11 troofer levels.
 
2013-05-01 10:14:55 PM  
My husband has tried to buy ammo 3 times this month and hasn't been able to find any. He even went to another state last week. I didn't think there was a conspiracy theory about it, but where has all the ammo gone?
 
2013-05-01 10:33:15 PM  
Jimmy Inhofe.

He'll soon be drafting legislation by dipping his pinky-finger in his Depends and scrawling it on his nurse's smock.
 
2013-05-01 10:33:24 PM  

take_flight: My husband has tried to buy ammo 3 times this month and hasn't been able to find any. He even went to another state last week. I didn't think there was a conspiracy theory about it, but where has all the ammo gone?


Obama bought it all to force ammo buyers to spend money on gas and enough road food to get to the next state.  That's stimulating the economy!  Obama wins again!
 
Rat [TotalFark]
2013-05-01 10:46:51 PM  
I blame myself for not wanting to get up early to get the daily dose of slim pickins' at Academy.  I've hit the bingo button a few times at Wally World, but my stock is depleted...alas.  I'm almost embarrassed to admit I'm now below 500 rounds.

© its a shame, really
 
2013-05-01 10:51:15 PM  

CynicalLA: KittyGlitterSparkles: The DHS has admitted they're buying 1.6 billion rounds. The conspiracies revovle around why.

Department of Homeland Security.  I wonder why.


Remind me again why the Department of Homeland Security needs enough ammo to kill every man, woman, and child in the Homeland five times over?
 
2013-05-01 10:52:07 PM  

stuffy: Never let reality mess with a perfectly good derp.


Lots of insults in this thread, but not many actual answers regarding where all of the ammo has actually gone.
 
2013-05-01 10:56:50 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: stuffy: Never let reality mess with a perfectly good derp.

Lots of insults in this thread, but not many actual answers regarding where all of the ammo has actually gone.


Yeah I mean youd think that at some point everyone would be stocked up.
 
2013-05-01 11:01:43 PM  
Wouldn't it be easier for Obama to use his time machine to go back and rewrite the second amendment?
 
2013-05-01 11:03:13 PM  
http://gunbot.net/

Don't buy from gougers on Armslist, Cheaper Than Dirt or Ted Nugent.
 
2013-05-01 11:03:42 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: stuffy: Never let reality mess with a perfectly good derp.

Lots of insults in this thread, but not many actual answers regarding where all of the ammo has actually gone.


I shot it.

/except the .50 BMG
//don't know where that went
 
2013-05-01 11:05:31 PM  

MylesHeartVodak: http://gunbot.net/

Don't buy from gougers on Armslist, Cheaper Than Dirt or Ted Nugent.


Jesus Christ, even there it's over $1/round for .223.
 
2013-05-01 11:11:13 PM  

take_flight: My husband has tried to buy ammo 3 times this month and hasn't been able to find any. He even went to another state last week. I didn't think there was a conspiracy theory about it, but where has all the ammo gone?


Baby, stop worryin' about how much ammo HE needs, and start carin' about how much lovin' YOU need.

Honey, I KNOW y'all are not fighting off a zombie horde. Sorry, that's just not the state of things.

So baby, where's your man expending his feeble ammo?

Is he shootin' paper at the range, or pickin' up flesh-and-sin trophies?

/I'm here because I care
 
2013-05-01 11:29:09 PM  

FlashHarry: somebody should add up all the time and money the GOP has spent since 2010 drafting bullshiat legislation like this, the 36 obamacare repeals, reading the constitution aloud, etc. etc.

and that doesn't even count passing blatantly unconstitutional bullshiat laws in the states.

party of small government, my ass.


Or there is a serious question about misuse of funds. If the department is wasting ammunition then the tax payer needs to be represented. The question seems to be why DHS agents need so many more bullets per agent than the US military needs for combat troops. I dont think anyone has a problem with the department buying in bulk to get better prices. But once bought those bullets are a resource for the department, and departments are responsible for consumable resources. Waste is waste.
 
2013-05-01 11:45:15 PM  
Were I an unethical manufacturer I might rotate delaying shipments to major media markets to generate the illusion of a shortage in the media until panic buying creates one.

Fortunately our business leaders are above that sort of thing.
 
2013-05-01 11:49:16 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Were I an unethical manufacturer I might rotate delaying shipments to major media markets to generate the illusion of a shortage in the media until panic buying creates one.

Fortunately our business leaders are above that sort of thing.


No American could ever act so immorally. You should flay yourself for the very idea.
 
2013-05-01 11:57:50 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: stuffy: Never let reality mess with a perfectly good derp.

Lots of insults in this thread, but not many actual answers regarding where all of the ammo has actually gone.


A bunch of paranoid nuts bought it all.
 
2013-05-02 12:03:54 AM  
I drove through Oklahoma once. As I was passing this hugely ridiculous sized cross on the side of the interstate I thought to myself "I bet you could have feed and clothed a lot of people for what it cost to construct that monstrosity."
 
2013-05-02 12:28:01 AM  

MylesHeartVodak: http://gunbot.net/

Don't buy from gougers on Armslist, Cheaper Than Dirt or Ted Nugent.


Are you a wizard?

/bookmarked.
 
2013-05-02 12:33:31 AM  
SpaceBison
I drove through Oklahoma once. As I was passing this hugely ridiculous sized cross on the side of the interstate I thought to myself "I bet you could have feed and clothed a lot of people for what it cost to construct that monstrosity."


I though the same about the 9/11 memorial
 
2013-05-02 12:42:15 AM  

The Smails Kid: Man On Pink Corner: stuffy: Never let reality mess with a perfectly good derp.

Lots of insults in this thread, but not many actual answers regarding where all of the ammo has actually gone.

I shot it.

/except the .50 BMG
//don't know where that went


Palmetto had some in stock, past that I place bulk orders from  http://www.50bmgsupply.com.  Not as good as surplus prices were a few years back, but then what is?
 
2013-05-02 01:28:29 AM  

fusillade762: A bunch of paranoid nuts bought it all.


A point on which I think everybody can agree, regardless of outlook.
 
2013-05-02 01:37:03 AM  
Never Believe Anything Until It's Officially Denied
 
2013-05-02 03:15:17 AM  

vygramul: Jesus Christ, even there it's over $1/round for .223.


That's nuts. AIM Surplus had .30-06 ammo from Prvi Partizan for $0.67/round just a few weeks ago. Sold out now, but not a bad price in general. It's rare to see .30-06 cheaper than .223.

Even their stock of 7.5 Swiss is sold out, which is definitely odd: not a lot of people with K31s. Go figure.
 
2013-05-02 03:27:50 AM  
75grain .223 Russian Wolff cost me $1/round in March.

Months before this current scare, I bought 200 rounds of .308 for $70.
 
2013-05-02 04:43:43 AM  

KittyGlitterSparkles: Also, if you know where to look on the internet, you can find ammo. Luckygunner has plenty of 223, 9mm, 40 cal, 7.62x39 ect. At least they did last night.


What are the rules for shipping it?  Usually, things that can ignite or explode have annoying rules about shipping.
 
2013-05-02 04:46:49 AM  

heypete: Care to show a citation for your claim about the NRA being in the pocket of gun & ammo makers?

According to their tax records about half their annual income is from things like advertising (they have several magazines and publications in which they sell ad space)


How much of that advertising is bought by gun & ammo makers or dealers?
 
2013-05-02 05:18:24 AM  

flondrix: What are the rules for shipping it? Usually, things that can ignite or explode have annoying rules about shipping.


In general loaded cartridges (as opposed to bulk powder, primers, etc.) can be ground shipped (no air shipping of ammo) with no extra precautions or costs other having a label like this one. Cartridges are not terribly dangerous when not contained in a gun. UPS ships ammo all the time. FedEx also ships ammo but I think UPS has slightly cheaper rates, so all the ammo vendors I know ship it with UPS. The post office doesn't allow ammo to be shipped.

Bulk powder, primers, and other materials count as "hazardous material" and there's a $20 Haz-Mat fee but UPS and FedEx will still transport them.
 
2013-05-02 05:25:36 AM  
If the government buys up all the ammo, then the manufacturers will simply ramp up production.  There's no way you can exhaust a supply that is elastic.
 
2013-05-02 05:35:51 AM  

flondrix: How much of that advertising is bought by gun & ammo makers or dealers?


Dealers? Practically none. The magazines are sent to people all over the country, so it wouldn't really make sense for someone to advertise in a national publication for a local dealer.

Manufacturers? A fair bit. I'd say that about 70-80% of the ads (ball park estimate) in their magazines are from the firearms industry (including manufacturers of guns, ammo, accessories, etc.).

The subscribers of the magazines are firearms enthusiasts, so it makes sense for companies in that industry to advertise in the magazines, just like it'd make sense for cigar companies to take out ads in Cigar Aficionado.

That doesn't mean the industry has the NRA in its pocket -- the bulk of their funding still comes from individual membership dues. According to their tax records, about 10% of their income is from advertising in publications.

Do the interests of the NRA, its members, many non-member gun owners, and industry overlap? Absolutely. I'm not denying that. I'm simply saying that the claims that the NRA speaks mostly for the industry rather than for its millions of dues-paying members or that it is in the pocket of industry, are not supported by their tax records and other facts.
 
2013-05-02 06:12:33 AM  

heypete: Bulk powder, primers, and other materials count as "hazardous material" and there's a $20 Haz-Mat fee but UPS and FedEx will still transport them.


You can ship bulk powder!?
 
2013-05-02 06:32:46 AM  

flondrix: You can ship bulk powder!?


Sure. You can ship a lot of hazardous materials so long as it's properly declared, packed, and paid for.

Not many local dealers sell powder, primers, or other reloading supplies and, if they do, it's a fairly limited supply. Being able to order online and have it shipped is an affordable way of getting reloading supplies, particularly relatively uncommon stuff. When I lived in Tucson a local dealer stocked IMR powders, which was great as I used IMR powders in the ammo I loaded for old military rifles like the M1 Garand (it's picky about pressure and powder type) but didn't stock stuff like Vihtauori and other brands.

Here's a company that sells it. You can buy most powder in 1 or 8 pound containers.

Smokeless powder is not explosive -- it'll burn if ignited, of course, but it doesn't deflagrate (the rapid burning that takes place when a gun fires) unless it's confined. The containers that it comes in are specifically designed to rupture at very low pressures so they won't confine the powder if it catches fire.

A buddy of mine once ordered 16 pounds of powder and 5,000 primers (he was loading for a competition and needed to have several thousand rounds of extremely consistent ammo for training and the match). The FedEx guy showed up with a handcart and a box festooned with scary warning labels ("Do not taunt happy fun box.") and was curious as to what it contained, as he'd never seen something with so many warnings. It was rather amusing. The FedEx guy turned out to be a gun owner as well and they talked shop for a few minutes. It got the guy interested in reloading. :)
 
2013-05-02 07:27:44 AM  
archichris:

Or there is a serious question about misuse of funds. If the department is wasting ammunition then the tax payer needs to be represented. The question seems to be why DHS agents need so many more bullets per agent than the US military needs for combat troops. I dont think anyone has a problem with the department buying in bulk to get better prices. But once bought those bullets are a resource for the department, and departments are responsible for consumable resources. Waste is waste.

The comparison of 'per agent' to 'combat troops' is not a valid comparison and doesn't match the original reference where this came up.  The reference I think you are referring to was not just for 'combat troops' but all troops regardless of station or training.  It was a comparison that was purposely misleading.

It should come as no surprise that our federal agents who require quarterly training and certification use more ammunition in a year than the average of all military members regardless of their training requirements or station.

If you spread the average out over all DHS employees it would be more representative of a comparison, or if you truly limited the comparison to 'combat troops' or troops who serve in forces where firearms training was a large part of their day.
 
2013-05-02 08:51:38 AM  

PreMortem: Inhofe huh? My money was on King or Gohmert. All are idiots though.


I wasn't surprised. Inhofe is pants-on-head retarded and its been a while since he went out of his way to prove it. He eventually comes through.
 
2013-05-02 08:58:42 AM  

moothemagiccow: Because companies have a limited number of bullets they can manufacture and sell


It's even dumber than that.

The more ammo that gets bought the more ammo manufacturing capacity will be created. Eventually capacity will catch up. Unless this cunning conspiracy includes continuously increasing the amount of ammo the gubmit buys capacity will eventually catch up. (free market, supply and demand,  blah blah blah)

And if the evil gubmit ever STOPS buying farkloads of ammo the manufacturers will have excess capacity and prices will drop.

Even if this was a government conspiracy it's a dumb one and wouldn't work long term.

But facts rarely deter Inhofe when he is hot on the trail of a conspiracy theory.
 
2013-05-02 09:04:19 AM  
Well....how about that?  These folks are not from the south.

NOT.  FROM.  THE.  SOUTH.

/Highly amusing it is
//Standard reply:  "Oklahoma is just like the south.  We have lots of people here that are "confederates"
///My reply:  "Isn't that nice?"

Cunfusious says those who dish it out the hardest are the ones least likely to take it like a man.
 
2013-05-02 09:06:09 AM  
Confucius/Confusious/Confusing/Confused!
 
2013-05-02 09:45:52 AM  

Mimic_Octopus: crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ?  Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer.   A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?


You ...ahem...ignorant person, you. Demand has been going up steadily for several years. At the beginning of the year suppliers have to estimate the ENTIRE year's demand. There's a huge conference in Vegas about this every year. It is HARD to estimate a year's worth of demand when it's trickling upward. Small business owners cannot afford to overstock, so they don't estimate high. The fact too is that raw materials suppliers (various metals, fossil fuels) are all having to ramp up procurement and distribution. Supply is simply lagging behind demand because STORE OWNERS are reluctant to overstock, and they know you'll pay top dollar for ammo that IS available. Source: my neighbor has run a firearms shop for decades and he complains about it to me from time to time.
 
2013-05-02 10:10:29 AM  

ichiban: Mimic_Octopus: crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ?  Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer.   A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?

You ...ahem...ignorant person, you. Demand has been going up steadily for several years. At the beginning of the year suppliers have to estimate the ENTIRE year's demand. There's a huge conference in Vegas about this every year. It is HARD to estimate a year's worth of demand when it's trickling upward. Small business owners cannot afford to overstock, so they don't estimate high. The fact too is that raw materials suppliers (various metals, fossil fuels) are all having to ramp up procurement and distribution. Supply is simply lagging behind demand because STORE OWNERS are reluctant to overstock, and they know you'll pay top dollar for ammo that IS available. Source: my neighbor has run a firearms shop for decades and he complains about it to me from time to time.


Well, they can afford to overstock some, especially since it's not a product that goes bad or goes out of demand. What they can't afford is to buy additional production capacity when they suspect that we're in an ammo bubble, which we are. But you're right that store owners don't like to overstock, in part because in most places, they're taxed on their stock. That's why stores suddenly seem to have fire sales every once in a while - to get rid of the tax liability. (Some exceptions apply for very inefficient reasons, like the game store in VA that still holds on to computer games that are priced at $40 and come on 5.25" disks.)
 
2013-05-02 10:13:52 AM  

Dadoody: Months before this current scare, I bought 200 rounds of .308 for $70.


God. Damn it.
 
2013-05-02 10:19:14 AM  

Mimic_Octopus: crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ?  Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer.   A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?


Two things,  the gun nuts are indeed buying it.  They go to walmart at 4 am in my area and buy the stuff the second it hits the shelf as they stock.  If your are a normal person you are never going to get a chance to buy it.

Second, the ranges still seem to have a stock to sell to people buying range time.  So I think they are keeping ammo there instead of putting it out on the shelf.
 
2013-05-02 10:23:06 AM  

Sgt Otter: You'll start seeing commanders placing orders for gigantic HDTVs for every flat surface in the headquarters building, and mass purchasing every ridiculous Mall Ninja accessory for their troops' M4s near the end of the fiscal year, because of that stupid line of thinking.



Is this really how the budgeting process works in the military or is this some sort of myth?  I work for the government and if we did that kind of stunt we would have our asses torn open, not to mention its impossible in the first place.

The way it works in the real world:  Before the start of the next budget year, we ask for everything we want and project what we need and how much it will cost.  Then the higher ups look at it, and decide what they will pay for and decide if we will get what we asked for or not.  There is never any extra money to spend at the end of the year, usually you have to go and beg for more money because something cost more than you projected.
 
2013-05-02 10:47:42 AM  

manimal2878: Mimic_Octopus: crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ?  Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer.   A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?

Two things,  the gun nuts are indeed buying it.  They go to walmart at 4 am in my area and buy the stuff the second it hits the shelf as they stock.  If your are a normal person you are never going to get a chance to buy it.

Second, the ranges still seem to have a stock to sell to people buying range time.  So I think they are keeping ammo there instead of putting it out on the shelf.


Most of the ranges here reload their own brass and provide "range rounds" at a discount over the brand stuff.  I have no idea if this crunch has effected reloading supplies or not.
 
2013-05-02 11:28:10 AM  

heypete: That doesn't mean the industry has the NRA in its pocket -- the bulk of their funding still comes from individual membership dues.


Doesn't Taurus include an NRA membership with every gun sold? That's a pretty direct profit from gun sales.
 
2013-05-02 11:35:23 AM  
From Smith & Wesson home page:

www.smith-wesson.com

INDUSTRY alliance?
 
2013-05-02 11:40:47 AM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: heypete: That doesn't mean the industry has the NRA in its pocket -- the bulk of their funding still comes from individual membership dues.

Doesn't Taurus include an NRA membership with every gun sold? That's a pretty direct profit from gun sales.


Taurus would have to pay the NRA membership dues, which it would then pass on to the consumer, who wants the membership and pays the cost of it.

That's all before I would understand why Taurus would do that, since many people who buy guns already have a membership, and gun stores often give a 10% discount to NRA members. (Join the NRA and get $100 off an assault weapon.) That's still not direct profit from gun sales and is really putting the cart before the horse. This is like saying the UVA alumni committee makes a direct profit off of fodue sales because I get an alumnus discount at the Melting Pot.
 
2013-05-02 11:43:47 AM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: From Smith & Wesson home page:

[www.smith-wesson.com image 289x153]

INDUSTRY alliance?


Companies will always support fan organizations. You're arguing that a bunch of 'Vette owners who love the car and form a fan club now become an arm of Chevrolet and not the fans.
 
2013-05-02 11:45:19 AM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Doesn't Taurus include an NRA membership with every gun sold? That's a pretty direct profit from gun sales.


They offer a free, one-year NRA membership as an option to buyers. It's not automatic.

As I've said, the interests of the industry, non-member gun owners, NRA members, and the NRA as an organization often align. It's no surprise that they often have partnerships with members of industry. That said, contributions from industry only make up about 2% of the NRA's annual income, while advertising revenue in their publications (most of which comes from industry) makes up about 10%. About half of their income (the single largest fraction) comes from individual member dues.
 
2013-05-02 12:20:51 PM  
Got your Little Orphan Annie decoder handy?

thinkprogress.org
 
2013-05-02 01:15:14 PM  

FlashHarry: somebody should add up all the time and money the GOP has spent since 2010 drafting bullshiat legislation like this, the 36 obamacare repeals, reading the constitution aloud, etc. etc.

and that doesn't even count passing blatantly unconstitutional bullshiat laws in the states.

party of small government, my ass.


Party of small Government is Libertarian. Please get it right.
 
2013-05-02 02:23:00 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Got your Little Orphan Annie decoder handy?

[thinkprogress.org image 850x389]


So AARP is an industry-owned organization and doesn't represent old people at all?

boardingarea.com

AARP is just a hotel lobbying group. It doesn't lobby for elderly people at all.
 
2013-05-02 03:36:27 PM  

vygramul: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Got your Little Orphan Annie decoder handy?

[thinkprogress.org image 850x389]

So AARP is an industry-owned organization and doesn't represent old people at all?

[boardingarea.com image 850x459]

AARP is just a hotel lobbying group. It doesn't lobby for elderly people at all.


It's definitely a marketing tool. And my point is, the NRA benefits from gun sales.

Never saw the president of AARP telling Congress Obamacare would lead to death panels, though.
 
2013-05-02 04:14:14 PM  

Lumpmoose: nytmare: Well somebody must be hoarding all the ammo because there's not enough ammo around for me to hoard.

Exactly.  When you buy based on paranoia, it becomes a self-reinforcing cycle when the supply runs out.


Doomsday preppers wanted for questioning...
 
2013-05-02 04:29:13 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: INDUSTRY alliance?


People with shared political and economic interests often form "alliances."  Ric Romero has film at 11.
 
2013-05-02 05:46:38 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: vygramul: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Got your Little Orphan Annie decoder handy?

[thinkprogress.org image 850x389]

So AARP is an industry-owned organization and doesn't represent old people at all?

[boardingarea.com image 850x459]

AARP is just a hotel lobbying group. It doesn't lobby for elderly people at all.

It's definitely a marketing tool. And my point is, the NRA benefits from gun sales.

Never saw the president of AARP telling Congress Obamacare would lead to death panels, though.


That's because the NRA has become the champion of all paranoia that will lead to necessitating "second amendment solutions". Manufacturers benefit from the NRA, and so pander to them. The "free NRA membership" is a way to attract NRA members to buy their products for their spouses and offspring or people who want to join the NRA anyway. It's marketing, not a revenue stream.
 
2013-05-02 06:16:09 PM  

Molavian: notto: kortex: Fark is so very liberal these days.  It almost makes me want to stop reading the site.  Sadly, I enjoy the humor.

Reality has a liberal bias.

No, it doesn't.  Your perception of reality is distorted by your liberal bias.

Today's Fark is way left of center.  Fark of yesteryear was much more centrist in dispensing snark.


Mmmm...I was thinking the same thing a few days ago.  But after giving it additional thought, I think it's that the right has gone so far right they are in off-the-charts Stupidville.  Making everybody who was 'center' look left by comparison.  I've always been somewhat center, but lately have found myself left of center due to all the craziness coming from the other side of the fence.  Even some of my closest friends, who historically stood firmly on the right, don't seem so convinced these days.

Anybody with some common sense and a bullshiat meter cannot, in good faith, defend what is going on with Repubs right now.
 
2013-05-02 07:07:58 PM  

vygramul: That's because the NRA has become the champion of all paranoia that will lead to necessitating "second amendment solutions"


I used to be more sympathetic to your point of view, but you have to admit that Obama's second term has brought a lot of the earlier tinfoil hattery to pass.  Sandy Hook was like a dog whistle to a lot of people in both the press and government sector: "It's go time!"  The horrible eagerness displayed by gun-control advocates is frankly kind of unsettling.  They just seem to want it too much.
 
2013-05-02 08:08:11 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: vygramul: That's because the NRA has become the champion of all paranoia that will lead to necessitating "second amendment solutions"

I used to be more sympathetic to your point of view, but you have to admit that Obama's second term has brought a lot of the earlier tinfoil hattery to pass.  Sandy Hook was like a dog whistle to a lot of people in both the press and government sector: "It's go time!"  The horrible eagerness displayed by gun-control advocates is frankly kind of unsettling.  They just seem to want it too much.


Newtown would have resulted in a Republican president making noises about additional laws as well. The only difference is that a GOP president wouldn't bother with the inanity of an assault weapons ban.
 
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