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(Talking Points Memo)   The conspiracy theory that Obama is buying up all the nation's ammunition is so crazy that even the NRA says it's bull. But that hasn't stopped two GOP congressmen from drafting legislation to combat it   (tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 256
    More: Stupid, NRA, GOP, obama, house oversight committee, conspiracy theories, Inhofe  
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7125 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 May 2013 at 5:06 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-05-01 07:05:35 PM
If the GOP gains control of the senate and sures up the house a bit in '14 it might get the hording and panic buying under control a bit since Obama can't run in '16 and I don't think Biden or Hillary either one has the cult of personality to ride his coat tails into the white house in '16, especially since he barely squeaked his own re election out in '12.
 
2013-05-01 07:05:50 PM

Cataholic: Do they really need 1,000+ rounds per armed officer?


I sure hope so. 1,000 rounds per year is around the bare minimum needed to keep up one's skills. Most state and local police officers I know shoot several thousand per year, as do most of the private gun owners I know.

1,000 rounds would allow someone to fire ~83 shots per month. That isn't really much at all -- I normally shoot 100-200 rounds per range trip.
 
2013-05-01 07:09:03 PM

spickus: ZeroPly: Joe Bob can't possibly be hoarding 250,000 rounds of 22LR in his basement.

Sure he can and I think I know someone who is close.



That's the size of a pint milk carton and used to cost $6-7.


Buying one or two of these a week for a few years can really add up. It's hard to believe how much a brick of .22lr costs if you can find them. I am getting the same feeling I had when my $5 silver hit $40.
 
2013-05-01 07:09:52 PM

Mimic_Octopus: crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ?  Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer.   A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?


Yeah, and race gas is $9.50/gallon, but I still go to the track and have fun and accept it as the cost of enjoying my favorite things. I don't look at the government and accuse them of hoarding that strategic oil reserve and refusing to give me some relief so I can burn rubber for less money.

Nobody, including the government, owes you cheap ways to practice your hobby. Do something else if you can't afford it.

/Is there anything people won't whine about?
 
2013-05-01 07:11:15 PM

Shvetz: detritus: Except the DHS has been buying a ridiculous amount of hollow point ammo under the Obama administration, and good luck finding any on the shelves right now.  Regardless of the intent, the industry has not been able to keep up with civilian demand.

This is why the NRA is not against it. The NRA has become a lobbying arm of the firearm and ammo industries. Anyways, why exactly do people need hollow point rounds for self defense?


Because hollow point rounds are designed for maximum stopping power against human targets.  They also have reduced ability to punch through or ricochet heavy targets like walls and vehicles (they still can, but since they are designed to squash and basically splatter on impact, they deliver most of their force to the first thing they hit)

Thus, they are ideal for shooting to stop somebody (i.e. like an intruder or assailant), and have less chance of hurting someone if you miss and it hits a wall or some other obstruction.

Hollow point ammunition is not used by the military only because of Geneva Convention restrictions.  It's quite popular with police, and for self defense.  It's too expensive to use for generic target practice, but if you're loading a magazine with the idea it might actually be used in a life-or-death shooting, hollow point is one of your better choices.
 
2013-05-01 07:13:15 PM

Calmamity: EvilEgg: Wouldn't the manufacturers just say "great!" and add a second shift or something?

As I understand it, the manufacturers are all running at full capacity (supposedly), and the next step would be building new facilities, which none of them are willing to roll the dice on.


Beware! Bullet bubble burst be bad business!
 
2013-05-01 07:14:19 PM

Oldiron_79: If the GOP gains control of the senate and sures up the house a bit in '14 it might get the hording and panic buying under control a bit since Obama can't run in '16 and I don't think Biden or Hillary either one has the cult of personality to ride his coat tails into the white house in '16, especially since he barely squeaked his own re election out in '12.


depends on who the GOP run, hopefully the line up will look a lot better than the clowns they attempted to run against the Dems last round.  Literally, it was a circus.
 
2013-05-01 07:15:10 PM
As much as I'd enjoy a good Obummer conspiracy.... a couple of things.
1. The serious Tin Foil Hat enthusiasts did their stockpiling in Nov. 2008. The "panic" people ruining the retail market right now are skewing the market so badly there is no way to really know what is available.
2. According to the dealer I buy my ammo from, there is more of a direct correlation between the spot prices of the metals used in ammo manufacture and current prices than a correlation to Gov't orders. Wholesalers have contracts too, and if they were being screwed we'd be hearing about it.
3. Buying an AR and a case of .223 right now is like signing up for swimming lessons after your plane has hit the water. If you seriously believe you're gonna gear up for the revolution at this late date, please, just stop watching Preppers and leave the ammo for those of us who enjoy the stuff without paranoia.
 
2013-05-01 07:17:11 PM

Isitoveryet: Molavian: What exactly is 'liberal' about this thread? Please be specific.

i1156.photobucket.com

0.2/10

mainly due to the fact that a stick figure dry humping 'your mom' is way more conservative than liberal.


i184.photobucket.com
 
2013-05-01 07:18:22 PM
guestofaguest.com

"You don't need no gun control, you know what you need? We need some bullet control. Man, we need to control the bullets, that's right. I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars... five thousand dollars per bullet... You know why? 'Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders.

Yeah! Every time somebody get shot we'd say, 'Damn, he must have done something ... shiat, he's got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ass.'

And people would think before they killed somebody if a bullet cost five thousand dollars. 'Man I would blow your farking head off...if I could afford it.' 'I'm gonna get me another job, I'm going to start saving some money, and you're a dead man. You'd better hope I can't get no bullets on layaway.'

So even if you get shot by a stray bullet, you wouldn't have to go to no doctor to get it taken out. Whoever shot you would take their bullet back, like "I believe you got my property."
 
2013-05-01 07:19:22 PM

part of the problem: According to the dealer I buy my ammo from, there is more of a direct correlation between the spot prices of the metals used in ammo manufacture and current prices than a correlation to Gov't orders. Wholesalers have contracts too, and if they were being screwed we'd be hearing about it.


Indeed. While not related to past ammo shortages, there was a major landslide at a big US copper mine in the last week or so. That mine supplies about 17% of US copper according to an article I read. It wouldn't surprise me to see that having an effect on ammo production and other industries that use copper.
 
2013-05-01 07:20:40 PM

part of the problem: 3. Buying an AR and a case of .223 right now is like signing up for swimming lessons after your plane has hit the water


seriously. who can afford to have fun when you watch $3 zing down the rage with every trigger pull?

or am i going over a bit on the price of that ammunition?
 
2013-05-01 07:21:35 PM

Molavian: Isitoveryet: Molavian: What exactly is 'liberal' about this thread? Please be specific.

i1156.photobucket.com

0.2/10

mainly due to the fact that a stick figure dry humping 'your mom' is way more conservative than liberal.

[i184.photobucket.com image 500x500]


are you trying to seduce me?
 
2013-05-01 07:23:34 PM
Isitoveryet: Oldiron_79: If the GOP gains control of the senate and sures up the house a bit in '14 it might get the hording and panic buying under control a bit since Obama can't run in '16 and I don't think Biden or Hillary either one has the cult of personality to ride his coat tails into the white house in '16, especially since he barely squeaked his own re election out in '12.

depends on who the GOP run, hopefully the line up will look a lot better than the clowns they attempted to run against the Dems last round.  Literally, it was a circus.


Well how well or poorly the GOP chooses in '16 will have an effect on their odds, but as narrow of a margin as Obama got re elected by with his cult of personality I don't think any of the Obvious '16 Dem frontrunners like Biden, Hillary, or Kerry 2 Electric Boogaloo will win unless the GOP just farks up that badly.
 
2013-05-01 07:25:24 PM
Oh come on! For a party that is always complaining about wasting tax dollars they sure like wasting them on this kind of idiotic BS.

Republicans, get control of these idiots. You are becoming a laughingstock! and no, the stuff done by Democrats doesn't even come close to the kind of sheer idiocy and lunacy being displayed by the right over the past three years. You look like complete fools.

I fail to see how the U.S. can sustain its status in the world if these morons manage to control the House, Senate and Presidency.
 
2013-05-01 07:25:52 PM

heypete: Indeed. While not related to past ammo shortages, there was a major landslide at a big US copper mine in the last week or so. That mine supplies about 17% of US copper according to an article I read. It wouldn't surprise me to see that having an effect on ammo production and other industries that use copper.


Addendum: here's an article that details the scale of the landslide, its effects on the industry, and has some stunning photos of the mine. It's crazy to think of the mine as being 3 miles across and more than 3/4 miles deep.
 
2013-05-01 07:26:25 PM

Mimic_Octopus: tuna fingers: Mimic_Octopus: crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ?  Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer.   A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?

Any shortage is due to people like you scared of your own shadows.  Funny little circle of fear you've brought upon yourselves.

i'm not scared of anything you idiot, where the fark did this retarded talking point come from ? the same rejects in tight jeans that came up with sports car or hummer = small dick ?  .  and it is not supply and demand, it is not even making it to the shelf to be bought.


It is being bought up by private parties in bulk purchases in massive amounts at the wholesale level. What makes it to the store after is then gobbled up by the remaining nutters paranoid they'll never see ammo again.

I've seen more than one forum with people talking about having 20+ thousands of rounds stored up, some saying they wont be happy till they get even more.

It isn't the government. The DHS purchase was a contract to purchase UP TO that amount over 5 years. It is a standard government consumables supply contract.
 
2013-05-01 07:28:58 PM

Isitoveryet: part of the problem: 3. Buying an AR and a case of .223 right now is like signing up for swimming lessons after your plane has hit the water

seriously. who can afford to have fun when you watch $3 zing down the rage with every trigger pull?

or am i going over a bit on the price of that ammunition?


Even at full retail for "name brand" that sounds a little high and outside but your mileage may vary.

I buy different grades of ammo for different things. I feed plinking rifles grade z surplus from Wherethehellistan. My snobbier guns get US competition grade.

But then (adjusts tin foil hat) I bought what I assume is a lifetime supply years ago and just top it off/ rotate stock as I go.

You can still find deals if you look. Be prepared to buy a helluva lot of it for a real discount though.

happy hunting
 
2013-05-01 07:31:11 PM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: GUTSU: Shvetz: detritus: Except the DHS has been buying a ridiculous amount of hollow point ammo under the Obama administration, and good luck finding any on the shelves right now.  Regardless of the intent, the industry has not been able to keep up with civilian demand.

This is why the NRA is not against it. The NRA has become a lobbying arm of the firearm and ammo industries. Anyways, why exactly do people need hollow point rounds for self defense?

Are you suggesting that people don't use the most effective self-defense round for self-defense?

How often are these guys getting robbed that they need thousands of rounds of hollow points?


Are you against people becoming proficient with their weapon and ammo of choice? Different kinds of bullets have different ballistic characteristics.

People should practice with that they are going to be using, just like how you wouldn't practice for the big Ultimate Frisbee tournament by playing horseshoes.
 
2013-05-01 07:32:24 PM

Oldiron_79: depends on who the GOP run, hopefully the line up will look a lot better than the clowns they attempted to run against the Dems last round. Literally, it was a circus.

Well how well or poorly the GOP chooses in '16 will have an effect on their odds, but as narrow of a margin as Obama got re elected by with his cult of personality I don't think any of the Obvious '16 Dem frontrunners like Biden, Hillary, or Kerry 2 Electric Boogaloo will win unless the GOP just farks up that badly.


it was a decisive electoral victory but a marginal although obvious popular victory for President Obama, and the bold is more likely than you may think.  have you been paying attention to what their legislative priorities are? NTM who the "celebrities" of the party are?
 
2013-05-01 07:32:30 PM
heypete: heypete: Indeed. While not related to past ammo shortages, there was a major landslide at a big US copper mine in the last week or so. That mine supplies about 17% of US copper according to an article I read. It wouldn't surprise me to see that having an effect on ammo production and other industries that use copper.

Addendum: here's an article that details the scale of the landslide, its effects on the industry, and has some stunning photos of the mine. It's crazy to think of the mine as being 3 miles across and more than 3/4 miles deep.


Even with that collapse the price of scrap copper, while high, is far below the highest peak.
 
2013-05-01 07:32:41 PM

Mimic_Octopus: crazy huh ? care to tell me where all the target grade and price 9mm and .40S&W has been for the past farking year then asshole ?  Dont tell me the gun nuts are buying it, they are forced to spend goddamned $500 a case on tactical hollow points since a box of regular FMJ has not hit a shelf since last summer.   A little expensive to practice to proficiency at that rate wouldn't you say ?


The Federal Police Training Center alone burns through 15 million rounds a year.   And with all the morons hoarding ammo, the government is actually smart to buy it in bulk as it isn't going to get any cheaper.
 
2013-05-01 07:38:49 PM

heypete: heypete: Indeed. While not related to past ammo shortages, there was a major landslide at a big US copper mine in the last week or so. That mine supplies about 17% of US copper according to an article I read. It wouldn't surprise me to see that having an effect on ammo production and other industries that use copper.

Addendum: here's an article that details the scale of the landslide, its effects on the industry, and has some stunning photos of the mine. It's crazy to think of the mine as being 3 miles across and more than 3/4 miles deep.


Holy crap that's a lot of earth.
thanks for the link.
 
2013-05-01 07:38:53 PM

Isitoveryet: part of the problem: 3. Buying an AR and a case of .223 right now is like signing up for swimming lessons after your plane has hit the water

seriously. who can afford to have fun when you watch $3 zing down the rage with every trigger pull?

or am i going over a bit on the price of that ammunition?


Going a bit over on price, unless you're buying something like Ted Nugent ammo! lol  .223 is going for $0.60-$0.70/rnd for brass, though I've seen Wolf steel for that price too (WTF?).  AR's are actually getting relatively easy to find, I've seen a number of DPMS and Bushmasters for under $800, Colt LE6920's for under $1,200.
 
2013-05-01 07:40:24 PM

part of the problem: happy hunting


IamSoSmart_S_M_R_T: Going a bit over on price


Thank you both.
 
2013-05-01 07:40:42 PM
James 'How many deferments?' Inhofe.
 
2013-05-01 07:42:15 PM

Sgt Otter: Triumph: That article is some world-class derp. The GAO is investigating DHS trying to figure out why it suddenly needs so much ammo and DHS doesn't have very good answers so far. It's an agency that obviously has way too big a budget. The legislation would stop agencies from accumulating massive stockpiles they don't need. In government, the trick is to make sure you spend up all your budget, so you don't get slashed the following year. This is about keeping government agencies from wasteful spending, not about the ammo supplies in retail stores.

I wondered about that.  In the military, you don't get rewarded with coming in under budget, and are allowed to keep your surplus for a rainy day.  The beancounters assume that since that's all you needed last fiscal year, then that's what you'll need this fiscal year.

You'll start seeing commanders placing orders for gigantic HDTVs for every flat surface in the headquarters building, and mass purchasing every ridiculous Mall Ninja accessory for their troops' M4s near the end of the fiscal year, because of that stupid line of thinking.


In practice, the military tends to be a tad bit conservative with spending on training, with the result that every year, in August and September (the end of the government fiscal year), units are all of a sudden sending people to every training course they can while scheduling training exercises and TDY tours, all to try to spend the until-then unspent portions of their training fund allocations (it is literally a use it or lose it situation, either they spend the money or it simply goes back to the Treasury as unspent allocations from a previous year that cannot be spent in the new fiscal year by law). If Congress would simply allow them to carry it over to the new fiscal year (allowed by the Constitution, which allows an appropriation of funds for the military to cover a 2-year period), they might not go on their once-a-year binges of training spending.
 
2013-05-01 07:42:40 PM
Sen. James Inhofe (R-OK) and Rep. Frank Lucas (R-OK)
Good, good are there any other bribe taking corrupt morons that would like to whizz away more of their day?
I mean if these idiots are doing this, it means that they aren't Fffffffuuuuuu-ing up anything else or taking kick backs or pay offs.  I say let 'em.
 
2013-05-01 07:53:32 PM
 
2013-05-01 07:58:11 PM
The common sense thing to do is to always trust your government.
 
2013-05-01 08:03:31 PM

Princess Ryans Knickers: Don't worry! Guns are perfectly safe in the hands of responsible gun owners!


I'd say the fact that they kept it in a corner and left it loaded disqualifies them as "responsible gun owners."
 
2013-05-01 08:13:37 PM
Could someone please invent a gun that reloads its own brass while firing or maybe a self- loading semi auto black powder rifle? Save a fortune on ammo. Thanks.
 
2013-05-01 08:15:31 PM

Nick Nostril: The common sense thing to do is to always trust your government.


Trusting our government is how we ended up at war with two countries and a collapsed global economy all the while having nearly all our rights greatly curtailed at the same time.
 
2013-05-01 08:22:20 PM
But if the government doesn't have anything to hide, they should have no problems stating their reasons or intentions.
 
2013-05-01 08:25:27 PM

amquelbettamin: Could someone please invent a gun that reloads its own brass while firing or maybe a self- loading semi auto black powder rifle? Save a fortune on ammo. Thanks.


patentpending.blogs.com

.46 caliber ball.   30 Rounds a minute.

/ World's first assault rifle.
 
2013-05-01 08:37:20 PM

Rent Party: amquelbettamin: Could someone please invent a gun that reloads its own brass while firing or maybe a self- loading semi auto black powder rifle? Save a fortune on ammo. Thanks.



.46 caliber ball.   30 Rounds a minute.

/ World's first assault rifle.


Cool!!
 
2013-05-01 08:39:20 PM

ZeroPly: CynicalLA: KittyGlitterSparkles: Also, if you know where to look on the internet, you can find ammo. Luckygunner has plenty of 223, 9mm, 40 cal, 7.62x39 ect. At least they did last night.

You guys remind me of drug addicts.

I'm definitely the cocaine guy in that case... .416 rounds are $5.50 a pop and I need to buy 100 of them before taking Barrett's introductory shooting course this year.

/will have my shiny new rifle any day now, yay!
//trying to figure out the whole "reloading" thing


It's easy to do...if you can find primers (small pistol primers are impossible to find)
/ Also powder is getting hard to find
//Not to mention the bullets
 
2013-05-01 08:47:13 PM

Isitoveryet: part of the problem: 3. Buying an AR and a case of .223 right now is like signing up for swimming lessons after your plane has hit the water

seriously. who can afford to have fun when you watch $3 zing down the rage with every trigger pull?

or am i going over a bit on the price of that ammunition?


Going over a bit.. Last time I checked it was a dollar a round
 
2013-05-01 08:49:01 PM

amquelbettamin: Could someone please invent a gun that reloads its own brass while firing or maybe a self- loading semi auto black powder rifle? Save a fortune on ammo. Thanks.


Well you could always get a precharged pneumatic air rifle in 9mm, .45 or .50 calibre. You get like 10-15 rounds of air per charge from a scuba tank, and you just gotta feed it with projectiles, you can cast your own lead projectiles with molds. Quieter than a .22 short and has can fire a service calibre projectile at black powder calibre velocities.

They also have like .22 and .25 calibre ones with velocities similar to .22 lr and get something like a hundred or more rounds worth of air per charge.
 
2013-05-01 08:53:47 PM
News Flash!  Ultra-right wing tinfoil hat blog makes up a bunch of bullcrap to scare you into buying whatever it is that they're selling this week!

Wait, that's news?
 
2013-05-01 08:54:53 PM
Where do you think all these insurgencies in Egypt, Libya, Syria, etc are getting their ammo?
 
2013-05-01 08:55:01 PM

KittyGlitterSparkles: The DHS has admitted they're buying 1.6 billion rounds. The conspiracies revovle around why.


Got a citation for that?

All I've heard is wingnuts CLAIMING that, and they've been wrong on everything since Muffingate.
 
2013-05-01 08:57:09 PM

hemorrhoidal singularity: Triumph: That article is some world-class derp. The GAO is investigating DHS trying to figure out why it suddenly needs so much ammo and DHS doesn't have very good answers so far. It's an agency that obviously has way too big a budget. The legislation would stop agencies from accumulating massive stockpiles they don't need. In government, the trick is to make sure you spend up all your budget, so you don't get slashed the following year. This is about keeping government agencies from wasteful spending, not about the ammo supplies in retail stores.

"President Obama has been adamant about curbing law-abiding Americans' access and opportunities to exercise their Second Amendment rights," Inhofe said in a statement. "One way the Obama Administration is able to do this is by limiting what's available in the market with federal agencies purchasing unnecessary stockpiles of ammunition."

So it really IS about the ammo supplies in retail stores...according to the guy who WROTE THE BILL


We've already established Inhofe's a lying farkwad.
 
2013-05-01 08:59:58 PM

Molavian: notto: kortex: Fark is so very liberal these days.  It almost makes me want to stop reading the site.  Sadly, I enjoy the humor.

Reality has a liberal bias.

No, it doesn't.  Your perception of reality is distorted by your liberal bias.

Today's Fark is way left of center.  Fark of yesteryear was much more centrist in dispensing snark.


Eh, if you spam the ignore button, you can turn this place into your own little Free Republic if you want.
You know, a precious little bubble, where they ban people who ask awkward questions, and hold each other in their star-spangled underwear.

In a manly way, of course.
 
2013-05-01 09:12:56 PM
This is stimulus. If people think Obama is buying all the bullets then people will buy bullets and everyone in the bullet industry will get paid and spend their Obama stimulus money to stimulate the economy.

The incompetent, empty-suit wins again!
 
2013-05-01 09:21:28 PM
Farking ammo. Last Friday on my way to work I saw people lined up at Gander Mountain at 6am. I stopped in there over the weekend and asked what that was all about. Ammo shipments come in on Fridays and people wait out there for hours to get in at 10:00 and grab up the box or two they're allotted.
 
2013-05-01 09:26:53 PM
Never let reality mess with a perfectly good derp.
 
2013-05-01 09:44:16 PM

FARK rebel soldier: I'm not old enough to be sure, but has there ever been this much horseshiat conspiracy theory stuff about a president before? All I can remember was them doing this to Clinton and, while ridiculous, it was never this fanciful or elaborate.


Are you familiar with the 9/11 "Truther" movement.  I don't pretend to understand it but the machinations on the part of then president Bush seem... intricate and fanciful.
 
2013-05-01 09:55:10 PM

xmasbaby: FARK rebel soldier: I'm not old enough to be sure, but has there ever been this much horseshiat conspiracy theory stuff about a president before? All I can remember was them doing this to Clinton and, while ridiculous, it was never this fanciful or elaborate.

Are you familiar with the 9/11 "Truther" movement.  I don't pretend to understand it but the machinations on the part of then president Bush seem... intricate and fanciful.


The 9/11 troofers were far more outrageous than the birfers ever was, the OKC troofers are probably the only GOP derp that reaches the 9/11 troofer levels.
 
2013-05-01 10:14:55 PM
My husband has tried to buy ammo 3 times this month and hasn't been able to find any. He even went to another state last week. I didn't think there was a conspiracy theory about it, but where has all the ammo gone?
 
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